¶ Welcome to Transit Unplugged
This is Transit Unplugged. I'm Paul Comfort. On today's episode, we take you to Savannah, Georgia. This storied city was recently the host for the APTA Public Transit CEO Conference, where CEOs from around the nation gathered and talked about their concerns. We'll bring you a report from that with Faye DiMassimo who was the host. and the CEO Executive Director of Chatham Area Transit Authority, or CAT, the local transit system there in Savannah.
Plus, she describes her career path, how she ended up in Savannah, talks about the transit system itself, some of the great new features they have coming, such as hybrid ferries, and an electric microtransit pilot as they implement their master plan. Plus, near the end of the podcast, Faye dives into how they've been preparing for the fiscal cliff over the last two years when the COVID era federal relief funds run out.
I think you'll find that a very interesting story and a lesson for all of us in preparing. And she also talks some career advice to those coming up in the industry from someone who's had a long and storied career. All that on this episode of Transit Unplugged. Now let's join the conversation with Faye DiMassimo
¶ Interview with Faye DiMassimo
Faye DiMassimo, thanks so much for being with us today on the podcast.
Oh, it's great to be here. Thank you, Paul.
Yeah, we've been talking about this for a while and, great to finally have been able to make this happen. So you are the CEO and Executive Director in Savannah, Georgia, one of my favorite cities, for the Chatham Area Transit Authority. I am. And how long have you been in that position?
Oh, two years, just over two years.
That's great. And, we were talking in the green room about, The weather down there and you had a good line. You said it started out in the 40s, but it's going to the high 70s. And what did you tell me? What can I experience if I come there in one day?
You can experience all four seasons in one day here.
I love that. That is great. Well, uh, thank you for being with us.
¶ Hosting the APTA CEO Summit in Savannah
And you recently, were a host for a lot of CEOs. The American Public Transportation Association, APTA, held their annual CEO Summit there. Uh, we're just CEOs and deputy CEOs were there. How was that?
It was terrific. Such a, I think everyone really enjoyed the city. Everyone always enjoys Savannah, but I think everyone had a really good time. The program was great. APTA always does such a tremendous job of building out those programs and the sessions and so forth. And especially for the CEOs, it's such a great time to come together, and share our both unique and common experiences. And, there's a tremendous network there that's, just absolutely invaluable in the industry.
¶ Challenges and Opportunities for Transit CEOs
And, did you have a couple takeaways you could share with our listeners? the CEOs just gathered at the beginning of spring and what are they talking about?
Well, I think I think there's a couple of things. I think one is it's a tough job. it's a it's a it's a wonderful job and it's a job where you have so much opportunity to impact your communities. And I think everyone feels really empowered and excited about those opportunities. And I also think the challenges of, you know, you have so many, competing.
And sometimes, not in full alignment kind of interest, whether it be, it could be the community, it could be particular different parts of the community or stakeholder groups. And then there's city councils and county commissions and your own board, if you have a board and, and, and there's lots of expectations that get layered.
and so being a master juggler, is an important skill to have in this position and also having, you know, a lot of patience and a lot of understanding that 99 percent of the, some of the things that come to you are, it's not personal, it's, it's sort of how communities are struggling right now trying to, you know, become whatever we're, we're transforming into.
Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, there's a lot of pressure on CEOs.
I just, I just heard that the average age of a CEO in America now for, for midsize to larger systems is 58, which is kind of on the, that's, that's in my neck of the woods, the, the older spectrum and a lot of the deputies and other folks are, are not as keen To get into the top slot because it is a very high visibility position and one misstep, and you can be on the front page of the paper, which is why we do the podcast, to be honest with you, because we wanna give CEOs a chance to shine.
Seems like the media is always about the, the downside or the negatives. You know, if there's a, a derailment, if you have a rail system or a strike, or a problem or crime. But the good stuff that we do oftentimes doesn't get told. was there any other takeaways that you got from the CEOs there that you'd like to share?
I think, I think one, you know, we all are, very grateful for the huge amount. I mean, not, I've been in this business for 43 years in transportation, planning, community development, economic development. So, You know, for 43 years, and not since, I think Ice T, have we seen this kind of influx of, you know, federal funding opportunities. It's extraordinary.
but figuring out the local fund match, is a challenge for all of us, and meeting expectations, we had a moment this past week where I know a number of us weighed in our, our colleague down in Broward County, experienced, you know, one of these horrific safety, issues at her property. And I was, I was so heartening to see how many of us, came right to it on through LinkedIn and other, you know, social media channels, but to say, we're here. Do you need anything? can we help?
And I thought that's the kind of, network that I think APTA is responsible, that Esprit de Corps, that APTA is really responsible as a professional organization for helping build amongst us, So that, when those hard times come, you've got a real network of people that understand what you're facing every day for real, and are there to, you know, be a, be a ear and a, a shoulder if you need it.
That's great, Faye. Yeah. I was with Corey, Cuff Lonergan this last Saturday. Dave Deck and I spent the afternoon with her and her husband actually. and, it, She's, you know, it's a very tough time when you have that type of violent situation happen at your, at your garage. Really, it could have happened anywhere. It just happened to happen there. It was, between two people and, so we do. You're right. That is a great network to rely on, your fellow CEOs.
I know when I went through tough times in the past in my career, other CEOs were there for me. I, I remember talking to Nat Ford, when I was going through a tough time and he was there for me and, and other folks like, folks out in California, CEOs out there. Foothills Transit, etc. We're there and so we all are there for each other. That is a great lesson to take and it's something that Dave Deck was reminding me of. Dave runs the tri rail commuter system.
He came out of the railroad system, but not on passenger side, but he was in more of the commercial side and he said, you know, we were all tough competitors. We were never there for each other. We were like, rooting for each other's downfall almost, so to speak, whereas it's very different in the public transit industry, where we're there to support each other.
¶ The Evolution of Faye's Career in Transit
And that is actually where I'd like to kick off kind of our interview, Faye, is, tell me about your career. What were some of the key points you've had a long and storied career and some of the key people that helped you along the way?
So, I started off 43 years ago at a regional planning commission. I was actually an intern at a regional planning commission. I went to school at Auburn University and started off in architecture the school of architecture included architecture, landscape architecture, urban planning, and so forth. And, I kept watching all of my colleagues over in community planning, designing communities and having to figure out how does infrastructure and policy and people and.
And, you know, all of those things come together to make communities where people can thrive. And so I found that a lot more interesting than designing buildings. And so I made the decision that I would switch over. It was only a master's level program. So I went undergrad public administration. And then did my master's in both public administration and community planning.
And, but started off, my first job was at a regional planning commission that was about to be designated as an MPO and eventually went from an intern to becoming the executive director, young executive director at the time. I was 28 years old. I don't know what that board could possibly have been thinking, but it was, it was a wonderful professional experience. And we ran. a transit system. We had a section 9, 18, and 16b2. So for your viewers, they're going to go, what is she talking about?
This is in the UMTA days before it was FTA. and so, had that transit experience and transportation background from the very beginning, but then had the opportunity to think about how that really is a part of building communities that thrive. And I think that that's the place where, you know, transit has a grand opportunity now is in placemaking and communities all across the country.
That's right. I agree with that.
Absolutely. So 43 years, and I've worked in, the local, regional, and federal levels of government.
I've worked in the public and private sector, and, I've had a number of extraordinary mentors along the way, both men and women, a lot of them, unfortunately not here with us anymore, but, You know, there's lessons that you take from those folks and their strength that you take from, you know, I always had the opportunity to, you know, sort of be able to shape my career in the way I wanted it to be. and I think I never unusual for someone my age. A lot of people, my age sort of chose a 30 year.
You know, and they were going to stay and I've been looking at things and going, well, that's interesting. Let me go try that. and so, it's been, it's been a, an absolutely incredible ride and it's not over yet.
¶ Inside Savannah's Transit System: CAT
There you go. Well, tell me about your system that you oversee. CAT. The transit system there in Savannah. Give me a little bit of background on that and the vehicles, the budget, and then we'll go into a little bit about the city because Savannah is a storied city.
Absolutely. So we've got about a 50 million total annual budget, both capital and operating. We've got 47 fixed route buses, about 38 paratransit buses, and 2 microtransit buses that are on or vehicles that are on property right now, but more coming. We also run a trolley service called the DOT Trolley. that serves downtown and, down along sort of the, the, in the core downtown past Foresight Park.
If you know, Foresight Park is that picture that you see of Savannah, the iconic park with the fountain. That's it. So we serve that linear park and then all the way up to Victory.
I think what is, what is really important about all that, though, is, Our master transit plan was completed last year, and one of the things that we were struggling with, like many transit systems are struggling with, was, reliability post COVID, you know, you were trying to build back ridership, and you were really struggling with some reliability issues, so we, we made some service modifications during that period of time to bring service reliability back.
But in doing so, especially in those moments when you're modifying things in a way that could be viewed as taking away, You still have opportunities to also put back. And so for the first time in CATS history, we expanded that, that fare free service outside of just the downtown area and over to two historic black neighborhoods on the west side of Savannah and it's fare free service. So, while we already had fixed route service, we put the DOT shuttle in place instead.
It became a real, you know, part of it. We have a deep commitment to equity. and it became a real part of strengthening the equity part of our, of our system. out of those, vehicles though that I mentioned earlier, we also, have made a big commitment to sustainability, and, 6 of our fixed route buses, so about 15 percent of our fleet is electric, and then we have 10 electric vehicles that are paratransit and microtransit.
So we are, we are excited about the future and, and continuing to build on the success we've had thus far.
And tell me about the ferry system that you operate.
So we have a ferry system that serves, a sort of a triangle of service across back and forth across the river. I think it's typically a lot like the DOT shuttle. It historically had typically been viewed as something that really it's fare free also, and that it was typically reserved for the hospitality industry or visitors to our community and that kind of thing.
And certainly all those folk enjoy it too, but, we are looking at how the ridership of that and did that as a part of our master transit plan. And what we learned was that there are a number of people who take the bus or, take the, the, the, dot shuttle. To one of the, the landing points on the riverside, and then we'll catch it across to go to their service job either at the Westin Hotel or the Savannah Convention Center, which is doubling in size, but we currently have 4 ferries.
They are 3 of them. They're all named for historic ladies in Savannah. So everybody, I think, knows who Juliette Gordon Lowe is, the founder of Girl Scouts, for example, but that was in Savannah. One of our vessels is named for her. but there are, those, those three of those vessels are really at the end of their useful life, and so we have two brand new hybrid ferries that will be delivered to us in November, and then we have an additional, one that is out to bid right now.
So very exciting times. And the other thing that I think I mentioned earlier, some of the challenges that we all face as CEOs, and we talked about local funding, the ferries and some of these other services, we have enjoyed some incredible community partnerships with folks like the Savannah Convention Center, even the Weston in terms of.
Partnerships in terms of use of infrastructure, but also in terms of helping to make those necessary matches so that we can, you know, bring in new equipment, new service and so forth.
¶ Savannah's Charm and History
and tell me about Savannah itself, some of the history and, where the city is now.
Absolutely. Well, Savannah is the most beautiful city in America. it's a historic city. and it's one that really prided itself on protecting, all of those assets. So when you come, it's just literally that beauty that you can't build. it's, it's only from all of those, Those days in the past. It's a smaller city, but it lives very big. And I think there's a couple of reasons for that. One is the Georgia Port Authority here is one of the largest and most active ports in the country.
And then we also have SCAD, the Savannah College of Art and Design, which has been a huge influence and impactor. And so the notion that I think Savannah is just a place that not only is it a beautiful place, but it really prides itself on protecting and enhancing and building that kind of beauty in everything it does. So it's a, it's an absolute, you can't find better Southern hospitality and we've become a real food scene too.
and, people tell us about what Savannah is famous for, like in culture, people, there's books and things like that. Do you have any, any of that you can, cause that's why people will connect in their mind. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, well, there's certainly everybody. I think it's most people have heard of Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. And, and it's, it's a, it's a book, but it's actually a true story. And so Savannah is, is unique and quirky. and I think when you read that book and you sort of. See and understand. I think when you read it and see it, see the movie and read the book, you really get a taste of, what is really, It's just so unusual and beautiful and fabulous about this place.
I was telling you before we came on the air about, I remember I visited there several times. And I remember visiting one of the very first times, actually I think I was working for Mayflower or Laidlaw at the time. And, I remember the Spanish moss hanging on the trees, you know, near Forsyth Park and around there. Just phenomenal.
And then we had a dinner meal right at sunset out on the Savannah River, on picnic tables with strings of lights overhead, the hanging lights, and just the atmosphere and the mood was electric. It was just, it just is a, it's a beautiful experience. It's got a wonderful spirit. I don't know how else to say it when I visit there. What a great city to serve in. a couple other interesting things you've got going on there, Faye, that I hope you could share with us about.
¶ Innovations in Transit: Electric Microtransit and More
You've got an Electro Microtransit pilot coming on. Tell us about that. We do so last year, probably many of your viewers remember the smart grant cycle. The very 1st, 1 that came out, there were 59 grants awarded out of 300 over 300 applications only about 7 of those were transit related. We were 1 of the 7, and we were awarded 100 percent funding 1. 2Million to develop an electric microtransit zonal. Pilot, and we wanted to do it with all electric vehicles.
We wanted to do it with no contract service. We want to do it with our own ATU local 1324 staff, and we wanted to build in the strong partnerships with Savannah Technical College, Savannah State, our HBCU, and then Georgia Tech, who's the developer of the app for the, service, and we wanted to do that so that we were building in all of this training and upskilling.
So we're not only building our, our union base of operators and mechanics on how to operate and how to maintain electric vehicles, but we were really building an upskilling in the community. Those partnerships with Savannah Tech and Savannah State are just invaluable. And that's, that's exactly what placemaking should be about in transforming the future of transit. That's interesting. You mentioned Georgia Tech, the rambling wreck of Georgia Tech. I remember when I was a kid, we visited there.
My dad was a pastor, and we visited Claude McBride, who was the, chaplain of the football team, the Georgia Bulldogs, and he was the first cousin of Jimmy Carter. President who came from Georgia. Yeah. And I remember this was around the time when he was running for president. So I was a little kid. And I just, that's a, that's another memory about in Georgia. That's in my mind. Well, that sounds like an amazing program.
¶ Master Planning for the Future of Transit in Savannah
And you all just finished, Faye, your recent master plan. What's in there and what are you looking to do headed into the near future?
So, we really took a very thoughtful and deliberate approach. I think the thing that's really great about the Master Transit Plan is we looked at it in terms of the sort of near term, mid term, longer term phases, but we tied it very specifically to implementation strategies for each project or each type of project. We're looking at continuing to figure out what's the smart build out of the. Most heavily used pieces of our fixed route system.
Fixed route systems are still core to good and healthy transit systems. It's changed a little bit. How do we, how do we leverage that in a way that builds the most productive parts of our fixed route and allow some other tools like. Microtransit to help do that building, but also serve in areas where fixed route just, you know, can't get there as effectively on our paratransit side. We are starting to look at on demand services. So, rather than it being.
The more traditional sort of fixed route with the corresponding paratransit and, oh, now we've got microtransit over here. We've put an umbrella over on demand services so those that we're serving are seniors and those differently abled. About 70%, a little over 70 percent of our paratransit ridership is ambulatory. So they can use fixed route, they can use other parts of our services. How do we make that seamless and how do we really create?
A fabric of transit that serves everyone in the community, because if everyone is riding, then everyone wants to be an investor and it helps build our future. But we were very, I think the, the part about our master transit plan that is unique is we were incredibly intentional about those implementation strategies and the corresponding funding strategies and flexibility in those things.
And then we did a big outreach into the younger people in our community, because we're really not building for me and you. We're building for those folks. And so we want to be sure that their voices are very prominent in shaping that vision of what we're going to become.
¶ Preparing for the Fiscal Cliff and Closing Thoughts
And as you do that, as you implement your master plan, Faye, let's talk about finances a little bit. A lot of transit agencies this year, in particular in 2024, are telling me that they're reaching what they are calling a fiscal cliff. Some of them are sharper cliff than others. what's the vision look like there for in Savannah?
Well, we started two years ago with a very aggressive, position on how to manage that. So over the last, two years, our COVID money is really pretty much depleted, at this time. So the fiscal cliff is imminent, but we have put ourselves in a place. We were very successful in a pretty short period of time in about 15 months, and for a system our size, we brought in, in the, it was about a 15 month period. period. We brought in 14 million new dollars, in a really short period of time.
Part of that was that SMART grant. Part of that was more partnership funds. It was all kinds. It wasn't just federal money. It was state money. We got some of the first state money that we've ever gotten under a new program, that our state legislature put together That program had been there for a while, but it had been being collected and used exclusively in the Atlanta region. Now, it's got a broad application across the state.
And I think that was really due to the leadership of our commissioner of Georgia DOT, Russell McMurray, he thought that that was the right way to go with that program and the board and the legislature supported that. So we were able to be a beneficiary of that and it's an annual program for us now . So lots of those kinds of new funding opportunities, so 14 million new dollars, we've continued that beat, not quite at that pace, but we've been continuing that beat.
And so right now, as we sit, we have a really healthy reserve fund that we didn't have 2 years ago. So, I feel like our ability to manage the cliff as it, you know, continues to evolve is going to be perhaps a little less of a challenge for us than it might be for some others. but we've been very aggressive about being ready to meet it.
So you've spent the last two years preparing, storing up your, your chestnuts in the tree, so to speak, so that when this came, you'd have somebody to draw on.
But I do think, I do think, I will tell you, our biggest challenge, though, is local funds. we have, we have ideas, and we have, opportunity all over the place. And certainly, the current administration has given all of us, the most robust federal funding portfolio that we've seen in decades. So, those things are important, but there is a 20 percent or a 50%, depending on what kind of, funding opportunity it is. but generally a 20 percent funding match that's required.
And in our case, our local funding has really been sort of constrained. What had happened over time was that the local governments, while we are supported, and we appreciate all the support, that support has been sort of directed more towards support of this particular service or that particular service and that kind of, Support is good, but not sustainable because what you really have to have is support for the system.
It can't be that well, I'm, I'm helping you fund paratransit over here and I'm helping you fund the ferries over here and I'm, and I'm going to help you do this one over here. And I'm like, what we really need is support for CAT. And we need those dollars in a way that we can make them be most efficient and effectively used to leverage all the opportunity that's out there.
So, as we sit today, for example, we're leaving about 8 million dollars sitting on the table in new bipartisan infrastructure law money because we can't match it. We're hoping that that will change over the next year or two, but as we sit today, that bump in funding that we got, most appreciative of it, but we've got to be able to match it to get it.
That's right. that's a good lesson for all of us as we head into the future, is planning for the future and then being able to leverage. the dollars with local support. That's key. what else do you have to say as we close out today's conversation? Is there any other final thoughts or direction you want to go?
I know you mentioned to me, when we were speaking before we got started that there are a lot of mid level managers that, that are listening to this. And I did speak to some of those deputies that you spoke of earlier that they're not that anxious to step into the CEO role. But I will tell you this for the mid level managers and for the folks that are sitting in those deputy roles. the functions that you're performing, the job that you're doing, transit literally transforms communities. It can.
we're a part of place making that needs a whole big refresh in terms of what that means and how we do it. don't always be sure to build your network. your network's going to always be so important and don't do it because of you're just making connections and you want to do it not just to take from it but put into it. and always believe in yourself, and always believe in other people too. and then always be on the lookout for those folks who say they're fine but they aren't.
Great, great thoughts. Thanks Faye de Massimo for sharing with us a little bit about one of the most beautiful cities in the country, Savannah, Georgia, and your role there in transforming it by providing access to all of life's opportunities through public mobility.
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having us and y'all come on down to Savannah.
We will.
¶ Update to this interview
Well, we have a little, coda to our show today, because Faye DiMassimo which you just listened to our interview. has a new job coming up. Faye has been CEO of the Chatham Area Transit Authority, CAT in Savannah for a while. We just talked about all that, but Faye, tell us about the new, the new position you're going to be serving in.
Absolutely. Well, thank you for, so much for the opportunity to have this, postscript, um, to our original, our original broadcast. it's very exciting. there's still no place like Savannah, so I'm not going that far. But a remarkable opportunity with the city of Savannah, there's been an executive reorganization done at the city. And so this is a brand new position that was created and it will oversee 7 departments. It's the development services, economic development.
Mobility and parking, planning and urban design, special events, film and tourism, sustainability and transportation services. So, as you hear from that range of opportunities, both in transportation and mobility services, I will have the grand opportunity to continue to support CAT and CAT's growth and success in the community, just as a partner, rather than in the leadership role. So, it's exciting.
Yeah, that's great. And it just shows you how, public transportation service in public transportation, it is connected, isn't it, to everything and all the things you talked about, public transit is a part of.
Absolutely. And I think the way that, uh, you know, the new role was constructed as the Chief of Planning and Economic Development. Very interesting to think about how those things are together. And you're right. Transit is the thread that weaves through every bit of that. It's how we get people to the places that they need and want to go.
And I think it's really important to always remember, you know, we're always serving those, I hope, really well that need us the most, and we're also offering that range of mobility options for those folks who want to make some choices to achieve all that a community can, you know, offer them in terms of their, both their personal lives and their professional lives. All that connectivity, transit can make it happen.
That's awesome. So, last question. So, the CAT system will still be kind of under your portfolio then?
No, the CAT system will still be under the board, just as it is now, but I'll have, because I have transportation responsibilities at the City, I'll just have an opportunity that, as we're working on special projects, and we have several special projects right now with the City of Savannah, both in terms of microtransit, And our SMART grant and so forth, as well as a project that we're doing right now through the FUSE Fellowship Program,
where we're looking at the intersection of affordable housing, homelessness, or unhomed residents and transportation mobility, specifically transit. Remarkable project. So there's those kinds of special projects and just think about the overall economic development portfolio. The partnership with CAT is going to need to be a strong one and an effective one. And I'm proud to be able to continue that just from a different vantage point.
Well, congratulations, Faye. We're very excited for you and know you're going to continue to make a difference.
Absolutely. Thank you, Paul, for the opportunity to join you back again, just for a quick note. So thanks.
¶ Coming up next week on Transit Unplugged
Hi, this is Tris Hussey editor of the Transit Unplugged podcast. Thanks for listening to this week's episode with our special guests Faye DiMassimo. Coming up next week on the show we have returning guest Dave Reage head of Halifax transit, giving Paul a tour of his city by bus. And boat. Hey, if you are a fan of the show. Are you following Transit Unplugged on Apple, Spotify YouTube Music, Amazon, wherever you get your podcasts? When you follow transit unplugged. It does two things.
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