Hill Testing, Hydrogen, and Electric Ferries: Halifax Transit’s Green Innovations with Dave Reage

Hey, this is Paul Comfort. Thanks for being with us today on Transit Unplugged. We're now over 300 episodes in interviewing some of the world's most interesting people that run public transportation systems around the world. And some of the top thought leaders in our public transit industry. And today we're happy to bring to you an interview I did live and in person with Dave Reage he's the Executive Director of Halifax Transit and the First Vice Chair of the Canadian Urban Transit Association.

Thanks for being with us, Dave.

My pleasure, Paul.

This, already, we're only halfway through the trip, but this has been an amazing trip.

Halifax is the capital of the province of Nova Scotia. It's a city of about half a million people, the largest city in Atlantic Canada. And, you know, us as a transit system operate about 400 buses, over a thousand employees, and five harbor ferries as part of the way that we service the citizens of Halifax.

And we're on one of your buses now. This one's obviously a diesel because there's a little noise going on. Later on when you You have your two electric buses going. We could do this very quietly, couldn't we?

Absolutely. It'll be silence.

We were out at your garage yesterday with your head of maintenance, Norman, who showed me the battery electric buses that you've got coming. Two of them are there. I thought it was pretty cool. You have one of the buses loaded up with sandbags, like 5, 000 pounds to, you know, be like it was 36 passengers. Tell us about what you're doing there with alternate fuels and those kind of things. What are you exploring?

Yeah, so right now the first, the first part into it is we're on battery electric buses. So we do We do have 60 buses coming from our suppliers, Nova Bus. so right now with the first two we have, we're really doing a lot of testing, a lot of training. Going to a fleet like this is really one of the biggest transitions you could ever make.

That's smart. Yeah. He told me they were even doing like hill testing, see how the brakes hold, those kinds of things.

Absolutely. Yeah. although the bus itself is very similar to the untrained eye, so many systems are different, new, modern. So, you know, from safety to reliability, we need to make sure we, we've tested everything out very thoroughly and we're comfortable with it.

You know, speaking of hilly, I didn't realize that this, that Halifax was going to have such big hills. We walked up to the Citadel. today. I mean, is this, is that the way it is all over the town and your buses do okay in that?

Yeah, it's a very hilly city. we don't have mountains, but we have lots of small hills and, that's the nature of Halifax. it's something like part of the testing for the e buses is what do all these hills do to our range? what kind of kilometers can you get when they're climbing the hills? but then coming down the hills, the regenerative braking will actually help to, to restore the battery. So that's the kind of profile we need to get. So we fully understand.

And what about other fuels? Are you looking at anything else?

Starting to look into hydrogen now. There's, there's a lot of push for hydrogen here in Nova Scotia. The province is very interested in developing a hydrogen economy, so, we're looking to see how can we tap into that. there's a lot of players in Halifax right now starting down that path. So, I'm interested in looking to see what is that. proper fleet mix. What can we do as a mixture, some battery electric, some hydrogen, and see where we go from there.

So, the system itself, you're part of the city government, right? Tell us how you're structured.

Yeah, so we're a department, department of the Halifax Regional Municipality, so we report up through the Commissioner of Operations, who's the second in command for the city. So, so ultimately, you know, we are a department alongside Public Works or any of those other departments.

And does the city, have a different Dedicated funding source for you or you have to go to the general fund every year. How does that work?

Yeah, so we are funded predominantly through property taxes as similar to the rest of the rest of the the municipality We do get about 35 percent cost recovery from the fare box, so that's a pretty average ratio. It's something that our council is happy with being at that rate I think so that that's yeah, that's the funding funding mixture . Paul Comfort: And tell us about your history a little bit your background.

That's pretty awesome, dude.

Yeah, so, you know, I get to do a job where, you know, having a shelf full of model buses isn't weird.

Yeah, like we all do at home, right? For all these conferences we go to. That's great. And tell me something about your team.

Yeah, so, I mean, I have an amazing team. It's, you know, I'm the one here talking to you today, Paul. But the reality is, as a leader, I'm only as good as my team, and I'm really lucky to have a fantastic team. so under me, I have a leadership team of five, five directors. you know, operations, planning, technology, all of the various kind of, kind of typical departments for a, for a transit system.

And how's ridership been?

we're doing well. you know, we, we exceeded the COVID, the pre COVID numbers back in September. So that's great. That's kind of a, I think a bit of a milestone we can put in the rear view mirror now and really start focusing on growth going forward. we very rapidly went from being under our pre COVID numbers. So now we're actually well over them and seeing like overloads and all the issues that come with, with a service that got very busy, very rapidly.

This city is growing, right? And your system is growing with it?

Absolutely. Yeah, we, we are the fastest growing city in Canada right now. Really? Which is, yeah, which is incredible. I mean, Halifax traditionally was kind of a, a slow and steady town. We never really boomed. We never really had any busts. But, you know, since, since 2020, we, we had been growing so rapidly. you know, if you've been before, even a few years ago, you, you may not recognize parts of the city anymore.

So, I know that housing has become a big issue up here in Canada, the cost of housing. matter of fact, CUTA did a study on it this year, and I talked to Marco D'Angelo, the executive director, about at the fall conference we did out in Edmonton. Is housing a little cheaper here? Is that why it's growing so much?

Well, housing used to be cheap here. you know, and I would say housing, housing is still cheaper here than the biggest cities. Like, still cheaper than Vancouver or Toronto, like your big cities. but the reality is, you know, the, the, the wage levels in Nova Scotia aren't as high as in those cities, but our housing prices are also skyrocketing. the rental vacancy rate is effectively zero. so that's why you're seeing, I think, a lot of catch up to, to, to bring housing back in.

And last question for this segment would be, we're headed, tell us where we're headed to and what's going to happen there.

Yeah, so we're headed out to a community called Bedford, particularly the Mill Cove area. So this year we received funding from the federal, provincial, and municipal governments for 260 million to build the Mill Cove Ferry Service. So, this is the first new ferry service we've built, since 1986. So really excited to be adding a new route to the ferry family. so it'll be high speed electric ferries, commuting time expected to be about 18 minutes into downtown.

how do you price ferries? I mean, and it's not cars, right? It's just people?

Yeah, just people. People on the ferry, you know, we, we have, we have basically some, some ferry experts on, on contracts, naval architects who can kind of look at it and do a, do a high level design of what we're going to need based on the speeds and harbor conditions and things like that. and then ultimately they can work up a price estimate for us. Gotcha. And, and the,

the, the passenger fare, is it a lot higher than riding a bus or tell us how that works?

Nope. so the fare is for the new route. We haven't determined that yet, but, yeah, for the The existing ferry routes, they're all the same price, all the same fares as the bus system. Oh,

is that right? Yeah. And can you, can you transfer from one to the other? How does that work?

Yep. It's a free transfer between the two of them. It is one, one united system.

All right, Dave, now we're out. Tell us where we're at now. We're off the bus. It's a little quieter.

That's right, Paul. We're in Mill Cove in the community of Bedford, and right beside the pile of rocks that will one day be the Mill Cove Ferry Terminal. So this is where our five electric ferries are going to come, and it's, you know, the location here, part of why it was chosen, it's very sheltered water, so much more safe and safe for docking and service reliability.

So, like, where will the ferries go? They come here, I mean, what's here where we're at by the way? It's just like a, it looks residential.

Yeah, so this is a suburban community, one of the fastest growing communities in the Halifax area actually. So, that's part of the push for this service. fast growing community, community without a lot of, you know, good road connections and things like that and, fairly far from downtown. So this, this ferry will go from here, right to the downtown terminal. about an 18 minute ride.

I got to meet your, your captain that's the head of your ferry boat operation here. Tell us about, you know, running, I mean, running the ferry. Public transit folks, there's not many of 'em that run ferries. Tell us about what that's like as part of a transit agency and having the right people in charge and all that.

Absolutely. it's unique, I guess is the best way to put it. It's, you know, the most highly regulated thing we do. it is federally regulated here in Nova Scotia by Transport Canada, or in Canada by Transport Canada. at the end of the day, I mean, everything in transit is, is about safety. With ferries, it's a whole different level because, you know, you are literally, in, in a, on a ship away from shore.

Yeah, I thought it was great that you got a guy that actually is Captain Chips out at sea to be your head of ferry operations.

Yeah, absolutely. Mervin's amazing. He has, such extensive experience, working, you know, large, ocean going vessels. so his, his, mariner experience is so invaluable, in keeping our system running efficiently and safely..

How many people does it take on a ferry system to run it a boat? You know? And then, are they all your employees?

Yeah, so they're all, all of our, all of them are our, our employees. so, typically we run a crew of four. and that will allow us to, carry a capacity of about 250 people. and we can add a fifth crew member to that. And that. goes up to our maximum capacity of 390. So, it's kind of like an airplane in that on an airplane, the more flight attendants you have, they're, they kind of go in line with, the number of passengers for evacuation purposes. It's very similar on a ferry.

You, you sounded just like a flight attendant. In the unlikely event of an emergency, things will happen. and so, very fun, kind of thing, and you mentioned earlier that you ride the ferry back and forth, and I think Mervin told me yesterday you have a million people a year ride your system, something like that, on the ferries?

Yeah, it's about that. It's, and it's interesting because it's a very seasonal ridership, and kind of in the opposite way that most transit systems are, you know.

That's wild. Yeah. I mean, that's something your boats have, you know, my good buddy, Kevin Quinn out there, he's got ferries too, but I don't remember being able to get up on the deck there, but you can on yours, right?

Yes, that's right. Yeah. It's one of the distinctive features. And actually, I remember when we were looking to build our current fleet of ferries, there was an idea from, from one of the designers that we didn't need that deck. And I said, no, that's, That's a Halifax thing, that's a Dartmouth thing. We absolutely need to be able to, even if we can only sit up there like three or four months of the year. Yeah, people want to ride with you.

Where are we at now, Dave?

We are at the Halifax Ferry Terminal in downtown Halifax. Okay. And what are we about to do? We're about to hop on the ferry. We're going to Dartmouth. We're going to supper at the canteen.

That's great. Tell me some about your ferry system. Some of the stuff we were just talking about.

Yeah, so we have five ferries, uh, five, um, they're diesel powered ferries and, uh, we use four in service in any given day. and the, the vessels now range in, uh, you know, from, from six to ten years old. Uh, they were replacements to the originals, which were, you know, two were built in the 70s, one built in the early 80s.

Now, we were mentioning that a lot of the maintenance is done in harbor, but you're building a new facility that we just talked about.

Yeah, that's right. So, you know, when we had three ferries, we could kind of get away with not having a dedicated ferry maintenance facility, um, but with five ferries now, it's, it's really quite challenging. Um, and with the Milco ferry project coming online, we'll have five more ferries. So, part of that project does include, uh, building us a proper on harbour, uh, maintenance facility.

Dave, we made it over here to Dartmouth. You live over in this area, right?

I do, just outside of Dartmouth, actually.

Yeah, that's great. great restaurant here, The Canteen. But you've been in this system for quite a while. How long have you been the executive director?

eight years as executive director. I've worked here most of my career, actually. Seventeen years in total.

what is it about this job and this city that keeps you here?

It's, you know, Halifax is beautiful. I think as we've seen, it's, you know, we have a lot of family connections here, but, you know, Halifax is just a wonderful, beautiful place to live. The people are friendly, the food is great. It's hard to imagine living anywhere else, honestly.

And what else do you have going? You've got the big ferry system coming, the expansion, do you have anything else new happening?

Yeah, the next thing that we're really trying to do is work on getting funded is actually a bus rapid transit network for Halifax. We do have a rapid transit strategy that's been approved by our council. Now we're still trying to find the funding to build out the four bus rapid transit lines that will complement the ferry system quite nicely and really allow the city to grow around transit in a smart way.

And I noticed when we were down at the ferry terminal, you've got good connections with your buses too, right? So people come in by ferry. It's kind of a link between your bus service, right?

Absolutely, yeah. The ferry really is, you know, it is that cross connection in the middle of the city. having a harbor right in the middle of the city can be a transportation challenge or it can really be an asset depending on how you use it. So, we do tightly connect the buses and the ferries so that you can take the ferry and then continue on your way.

so, what's your level of involvement with CUTA?

So, CUTA's played a huge role in my career, and actually way back to, I was a delegate at one of the first youth summits back in, 2004.

Oh yeah, I spoke at one in Edmonton this last year.

Right, yeah, so, so actually the second CUTA youth summit I was a delegate, and that really kind of solidified my interest in the transit industry.

Really? How old were you? I

was 24. Okay. I was 24, Let's not get under the category of youth. So it's played such a big role in my career that once I advanced further in my career I wanted to give back. So I've been a member of the board now for about six, six or seven years, and I'm the executive. currently I'm the First Vice Chair.

Oh, great. So does that mean next year you're Chair?

That's the kind of, that's the kind of line of assumption. Oh, that's exciting man. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Who are you going to bump off?

Kelly Palenci. We'll be happy to hand the reins over, I think. It's generally a two year term, and it's a great opportunity, but quite a bit of work, actually, so Kelly's an amazing Chair, but I imagine she'll be ready to kind of hand it over to me once we get there. It's a lot of work. It is. Absolutely.

With no compensation, right? Yeah. So Bismeyer, Mike Bismeyer and you, he's Vice Chair of the business members, right? Yes, that's right. So you both are going to elevate at the same time? Yeah. That'll be great. He's a good pal.

Mike's a great guy.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. So an association played a big part in your career.

It really did. Yeah, it really did. I mean, in terms of like getting to know people and I mean, like, like the conferences, like the one we've just hosted in Halifax, such a great opportunity to get together and share information because like one of the things that's great about this industry is that like none of us are competing and we've all got similar challenges.

Yeah. That's great. I like it. I don't know how to say this. So, but it's like, America has the big association to America, the trans association, and when they get together, you know, it might be five or 10, 000 people, you know, it's big. Feels like a family here in Canada, between all of you. Am I feeling it right?

Absolutely. Because, because CUTA is small, and I, I've been to a few APTA conferences, and they're, they're overwhelming compared to what I'm used to here, but because CUTA is, you know, the Canadian transit industry's smaller, less populous country, so you really are seeing a lot of the same people every six months or every year. It's great to see Wade today. You know, I haven't

seen him for a while, love that guy.

Yeah. And you can realistically get around. and see everybody over the course of a four or five day conference so it really is you know we had like 250 people here in Halifax the fall one's a bit bigger it'll be four maybe 500 people but all still very very small and manageable.

And you all seem to be very supportive of each other . Dave Reage: Oh absolutely absolutely it's it's a It's hard to know what it's like to work in the transit industry, and the challenges that come with that, unless you do it. So, when you're at a conference like this, it's such a good opportunity to talk to people that know what you're dealing with. And you may have a good solution for it, or maybe just vent together over a beer, you know? It's a good time.

Absolutely. No, yeah, the transit industry it's got a lot of great people in it and that's, that's what makes these conferences special and, and, and why, you know, you see people that like, that's why I'm, I'm, I want to give back. to the, to the association.

That's great. I guess last question would be, about technology. Mm hmm. so talk to me about, you know, where you're at in your technology future, what's happening for you.

Yeah, so the, the newest thing is our, our fare app, HFXGO, so that is a, that's active now, so you can buy a transit fare on the app. You know, no more fumbling for change and, you know, trying to go, remember to go buy a monthly pass at the drugstore every month. so that's, that's kind of the early stages.

That's good, and you've got a 35 percent farebox recovery ratio.

Yeah. You told me, that's great. Yeah. Actually, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's interesting. It's about average in, in, in Canada, but I understand that's probably pretty high compared to some of the U. S. yeah. Yeah.

When I was in Baltimore, man, when I first got there, there was a, a law in place where we had to have a 50 percent farebox recovery ratio. We weren't even close to it. We were under 25. So, the legislature changed the law. but a lot of cities now are hovering around 14 15 percent farebox recovery, so, yeah, this fiscal cliff that's coming there is interesting.

Yeah, it's a challenge. and I don't know that anyone has the answer yet. the good thing is though, you know, there's been lots of conversations. Really, Healthy, open conversations between the bus manufacturers and the transit systems, being facilitated by CUTA, because it's an issue for all of us.

Right, yeah, that's something. Well, good luck to you, and dude, you've got an amazing transit system, I just love your ferry system, you've got something fun and unique, and super excited about your electric ferries that are coming. and is that like the first for Canada?

yes. Yeah, the first in transit years for sure.

Yeah, that's awesome, man. And a brand new terminal, new services growing. You've got a great city here. It seems like it's very well rooted in its history, but growing for the future.

That's a good way to put it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, we're proud of our history here, but you know, we're also not a museum. We're a modern city and, and we're growing up.

Well, best of luck to you. Thanks for being on the show.

Thanks so much.

Hi, this is Tris Hussey editor of the Transit Unplugged podcast. Thanks for listening to this week's episode with our special guest Dave Reage head of Halifax transit. coming up next week, we have Erick Van Wagenen CEO of WeDriveU formerly known as National Express. Erick and Paul talk about contracting in the U S and how it's helping transit move forward beyond the pandemic. Hey, if you like Transit Unplugged. Take a second and share it with someone else.