Rachel Jackson: Solve Your Way Book Series - Interactive Adventures Unveiled

Music. In the spirit of reconciliation, I acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea, and community.

I pay my respects to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Highland peoples today. Welcome to Totally Lit, the podcast celebrating reading, writing, and creating literature. I'm your host, Kai Garvey. Thank you for listening. Rachel Jackson, welcome to Totally Lit. Thank you so much for having me, Guy. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm very excited to chat to you. I've been checking out your profile and learning all about you.

I hope you haven't been feeling like tingly feelings on the back of your neck. Somebody's creeping around the internet. Oh, somebody hit on the website. Hey. I'm super excited to chat to you about your Solve Your Way series. I love a good mystery and a good puzzle to solve. would you like to share a bit about your books?

Thank you so much yeah so the Solve It Your Way series it started last year and there's two books out at the moment these are interactive adventures for children aged eight to twelve years old they're full of puzzles and riddles and brain teasers and the reader makes choices in order to build their own story and arrive at one of many different endings available in the story so the first one was Escape from Cuttlefish Cove which is a pirate adventure.

And the second one that has just come out in April is Escape from Marigold Manor, which is an old school detective who'd done it. And to give you an example, in a book like that, the reader gets to pick a crime they want to solve. They choose how they interview the suspects, how they deal with the crime scene, what leads they want to follow, and ultimately their choices will determine whether they solve the case or not. Is it a little bit like a choose your own adventure?

It is, yeah. I was inspired by that when I read it as a kid. I loved those there was Choose Your Own Adventures and Give Yourself Goosebumps and Pick a Path and there's so many sort of different books that someone of my vintage would remember reading and then these ones take it a little bit further with the branching storylines will cross and also all the puzzles riddles and brain teasers are a bit of a fresh element that wasn't originally sort of seen. How much work did it take?

Takes a little bit of doing but I really enjoy it so I kind of lose track of time it's wonderful because it really lets my imagination branch out just in the way a child's imagination can branch out as they're reading it and instead of having to pick one and i get to put them all in. And follow all of those pathways. The big trick is making sure it stays consistent across the different pathways within that universe that I'm creating. Does it sometimes come to a dead end?

Like if you choose the wrong way, can you? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it does. So Escape from Cutterfish Cove had 64 different endings and the point of Cutterfish Cove is to try and escape from this pirate island you find yourself on.

So there are varying degrees of success that you can experience in your attempts you might escape as the pirate captain or perhaps you're walking the plank, maybe you find the treasure maybe you don't there's so many different options that you can explore and you can look for but you can always go back and try it again and these books have a checklist in the back of them so that you don't have to start the very beginning you can go back and insert yourself back into the storyline

part way through like if you've already cut it off most of one branch and you can go through and sort of collect all the different endings in that way There's nothing more frustrating than choosing your own adventure and the adventure ending immediately because you'd chosen the wrong way to go. Oh, okay, I've got to go back and start again. I would always feel so crestfallen when that would happen.

And I knew that I could just go back and pick another direction to go in yet, but I was always like, oh, I want to get it right. Also, I tried to bring in that element of collect them all. You know, you want to try. I've heard from young readers, they're so excited to try and find all the endings.

And some of them are a little bit trickier to find than the others because I will have choices hidden in puzzles that aren't immediately obvious in the choice boxes at the end of the page and things like that.

And the other thing I say about these books is that they are a really safe place for a child to explore choice and consequence. Obviously, this is all goofed up. It's a bit of fun. But you're still looking at what choices you're going to make and how that's going to impact on the experience you're about to have and the story you're about to build. And because it's in a book, it's a completely safe way for them to explore that kind of a thing.

And so writing a book like this when there is so many different endings, how difficult was that to plan out? Did you need spreadsheets or some tools to help you create the books? I do love Excel. I just write them with Excel and with Word. And it's a little bit horse and cart. I need to plan it at the same time as I'm writing it. It sort of happens hand in hand. I can't go too far ahead with one or the other.

Because you lose track of all those different threads as they're forming and, as I said, you need to keep it consistent so that it's still a really enjoyable experience for the reader that they don't turn on a page and suddenly it doesn't make sense anymore. So you definitely can't pants this style of book at all? A little bit hand in hand. I will plan it to a point and I will write creatively and just see what the wackiest option could happen next is.

And then I'll go a page or two of that and think, oh, I better make sure this is actually going to fit in and I've got to go back to my spreadsheets and it's a foot in each camp as I go. I do have that meme in my head with the guy who's got his hands in the air with his crazy ideas and he's got the, I think it's the whiteboard or all the different pathways. Do you know that name? That's what I'm thinking of. Yes, that's a picture of me.

It's possibly how I've appeared at times to my family. And has this been the style of book that you wanted to write all along when you were thinking about writing for children? That's a really good question. I love stories, I guess, is the only way I know how to answer that. I love stories and then when I had my own kids and they wanted me to tell them stories and kids are wacky, you know, and they're always saying, well, what if this happened instead?

And it brought me back to thinking about the Choose Your Own Adventures when I was a kid. And in the end, I decided that if I was going to write them a story, I wanted it to show them that anything's possible. In the book and in life. The books really reflect, as I said, choice and consequence, but also problem solving and critical thinking skills and having fun and enjoying what you're doing.

And there's not just one answer to that in life sometimes. And I wanted them to have that feeling in the book as well. But I love all kinds of stories. And if it's a linear story, I love them too. These are the ones that came out of my brain.

When you were pitching this to get published, was it an easy process to convey what you envisioned with the series? All I could do, there's such a unique structure of book, all I could do was put forward what I had. There really was no need to attempt to spin it or to dress it up in any way. It's very niche and I'm incredibly grateful that somebody saw some potential in that, the amazing riveted press.

They've just done a spectacular job with this series and in terms of submitting it I did find I had to try and shoehorn this structure into the rules that weren't built for this kind of structure you know they'll say send so many words I'm like okay well if I send the first 10 pages none of it makes sense because they don't lead on to each other I had to work out logistically how I was going to submit things but then the structure itself was its own um its own flag Amazing.

And you, in your day job, you're an intelligence analyst, is that correct? Yes. Intelligence. How much of your work from that did you utilise while writing the book? I think some of the skills are transferable. In the book, I get to kill people. That doesn't happen in my day job. Everybody needs to stay alive at work. That's the plan. I think the transferable skills, you know, things like writing a product.

Taking information and looking for the story inside, all of those things apply to both of them. And I probably was very lucky that I got to build some strong report writing skills and information management skills in my day job, probably for some years before I attempted the creative writing. So some of those skills were sort of already sitting there and I just needed to let the creativity out.

It's a fine balance because you're effectively project managing your book but then you're also trying to be creative and they often are different skill sets yet it needs to be in the one person that's a really good point i am letting the idea of writing a full-length novel i'm like what if i can't pull it off i'm letting it scare me into it well yeah you would think all the crazy things i try you think I would be just leaping into this but I have not been

because I do let the idea of oh I need to know my structure and my plot and my chapters and how long do they need to be and I start getting a bit focused on oh there's too many things just sit down and do it what was your process when you first went okay I'm going to do this did you sit down and just start tapping away. Oh, I think I'm probably like a lot of people who write, including what you've just said, where there's a few false starts and trying to figure out what works for you.

It's such a personal process and so creative. What works for the person next to you, what they really, you know, have working for them doesn't necessarily translate. And I heard a quote, and I wish I could remember who said it because they deserve the credit, but it basically said that the first draft is shoveling sand into the sandbox. And on your second draft, you can build the sandcastles. And I love that because for me, it said, just get the words down.

You can go back and pretty them up later, just get them down. And that got me through a lot of dark weeks where I was like, where am I going with this? What am I doing?

Just get the sand in the sandbox and in a sense don't look back worked for me and then once I got to the end I was able to sit back and go right I've got something to work with here and I can change it as much as I want but at least there's something to work with and at what point in your work did you decide to pitch it or was it you pitched the idea with some samples and then had a contract or was it you got the complete body of work done no well I have I had

the whole book ready, but not the whole series.

Slightly funny story, which I'll go. I think it's funny. Go ahead and tell you. I wrote two books. I wrote a grown-up book and I wrote a kid's book. And I just thought my grown-up book was The B's Nase. This was it. It was amazing. It was sensational. And of course, I wrote the kid's book as well because I have kids and that's what you do. And I put them both in front of a few people expecting to be told that the grown-up book was what I should be pitching and what I should be putting forward.

And a lot of people very politely said, honey, not that one. You should show people the kids' book. And so it was an accident. It's hard to be in the truth sometimes. It was an accident because I hadn't put a lot of love into it. But I really thought it would have needed a lot more legwork before it went in front of anybody. And they were like, no, no, no, this is the one you need to show to people now.

So I guess that just is the jigsaw piece that fell into place for me and I thought, okay, I trust you and I put it forward and people liked it, so it was good.

And did you have any young readers test running the book before you submitted? My daughters. Yeah. My daughters were my first guinea pigs and continue to be And I now have a beautiful stable of young readers who just are wonderful. I put ideas to them and kids are so savage. If it's not a good idea, I have instant feedback. And if it is a crazy idea, I get the giggles and the laughs and then I know that we're onto something.

I still get critiques every time I read my picture book at a library or school visit. There will always be somebody that says, but why did you put that there? Or why that illustration does that? and I'm sort of going, well, I didn't do that illustration so I can't explain why that's. But, yeah, kids, they're so smart and let you know exactly what they think, which is great because you want feedback to become a better writer as well. But also when they're like, oh, why did you pick that colour?

Everybody chooses that colour. And so just, yeah, getting that honest feedback that even though you think your idea is amazing, it doesn't always translate to your audience. So being in touch with them is really important. I have to be very careful too that my puzzles are the correct complexity for children and they're not. Lame to say and that they're not so complicated that they can't actually complete the puzzle.

So a lot of it comes from me getting them to test the puzzles to make sure that they can get that sense of achievement, which is what I want them to have. I want them to want to turn the page and read just one more page. And I am getting that feedback from people, from parents of kids who have had trouble getting through books in the past for whatever reason.

They really like the way this keeps changing and they can change it if they're not enjoying the direction it's going they can change it so getting really good feedback from parents of neurodivergent readers as well amazing I raised two neurodivergent readers and it was very challenging because I was quite a natural reader from a very young age and having that same expectation of my boys I learned pretty quickly okay they're not going to be interested in what I'm interested

in I need to find the books that they want to read. So that was when we were looking at graphic novels and comics and things like that. And, yeah, just finding the way for them to explore their imaginations in the way that suits them rather than trying to get them to fit the way I read, which is just very different. It's so wonderful that that's all available now. I mean, I'm sure there probably were graphic novels when I was young, but I don't remember them being encouraged

or committed very much. It's wonderful that all of that is, all those styles are available from sentiment. Well, that's it. I think we're also in a very different world where you've got to capture someone's attention so quickly because we're competing with Reels and TikTok and lots of digital media. So if you can't capture someone quickly, they're not going to read what you've written, which is heartbreaking. Yeah.

Also true. And I have heard, I've heard that it's six minutes a day is the difference between a struggling reader and a competent one who can get through the, confidently get through it. So that's about, and I did work it out, you know, it's about two or three pages in his book. So I've tried to make sure there's a choice at the end of every page or every second page so that they always want to just do one more.

They always just want to get that extra page in and it gets them reading, just gets them reading that one more page before they put it down and That's so exciting because literacy just opens up your whole world. It really does. It can make such a difference to children, but being able to pivot and be in touch with how readers read now is important. And I guess having an understanding that everybody is different as well, so the way they process information and learn is different.

So in your book, the puzzles that you use, Have you got a variety of different styles of puzzles or all different? Yeah, I try and keep it lively. So there could be anything from just really bad jokes through to quite complicated. In Escape from Marigold Manor, there's things that sort of resemble Sudoku kind of puzzles as well as they try and work through suspect lists and things like that. I really like coded messages, deciphering things and leaving hidden clues in

pictures. So, I sort of try and incorporate a lot of variety and different types of puzzles.

And of course, because it's a book, if it is too challenging, you can just sort of pick a page and go there. And then there'll be a little explanation of what was a great choice you made and how that puzzle played out. You sort of mentioned before that the person who writes the book and the person who wants to project manage it are two different hats that you have to wear.

And you're so right because the person who wrote these books, you know, I never anticipated that I would be talking to kids who had read them. And what a thrill that would be to have kids I didn't know to turn up with the book and want to talk about. It's just so exciting to see them excited. And particularly from kids, I've had kids tell me things that I hadn't thought of. So one young boy came up to me and he, this is the first book he's ever finished.

Wow. And yeah, his mom, his mom was really emotional telling me that actually. And, but he said, I said, what did you like about it? And he said, well, when I read it, when I turn the pages and make the choices, no one can tell how far through the book I am because it goes backwards and forwards. And no, and he didn't say no one can judge me, but that was basically the message that, you know, he was feeling people's opinions when he picks up a book.

And I hadn't considered that when I wrote it. So feedback like that, I love hearing that and hearing how much it meant to him to just enjoy the book without worrying about anything else. Kids really like the way it just changes. Like, we were going in one direction, now we're going in another direction. That would just sound like life. Exactly right. And, you know, there's text and then it's broken up with an illustration and then it's broken up with a puzzle or a joke.

Yeah, so the way it bounces around, I think, is the gameplay of it is what's helping it compete with the social media and the reels and the TikToks and where your attention is only kept for a short period of time before things changed again. I think that's the sort of thing I'm getting back from the readers.

So you've got Escape from Cuttlefish Cove, Escape from Marigold Manor, and something else is coming in September. Yes. Are you allowed to give us any hint? I think I must be because it's in the back of Marigold Manor. I'll take my link. So Escape from Firestone Fortress is coming in September. Oh, that sounds amazing. So Dragons. Dragons and Apprentice Wizardry. Really looking forward to seeing how that goes. So we'll have pirates, we'll have old school detectives and we'll have dragons.

And so what have you got in mind for the future? Are you looking at further series like this or would you like to have another look back at your adult work? I think with a bit of distance. I've seen what people run about with that one. I'm really enjoying these Solve It Your Way series books and the interactivity of it and I've got a lot of ideas flying around in my head. So if people are still interested in them, I would love to keep building and creating them for those readers.

You could keep going forever, really. Yeah. The thing I love about writing for children is that you get a fresh start every year. Like you meet a group of readers and then they grow up a little bit and move on to a different genre. but then there's a whole new cohort of kids to meet and to share your stories with.

So you can continually have that impact and share that whatever messaging or even if it is just teaching a bit of critical thinking to kids, you can do that every year with your existing books but then continue to write and create more. I love that. Yeah, they're really eternal kids' books. I think if it's something that made an impact on you in your childhood, or do you never forget that one?

They do stay with you, I think. With Choose Your Own Adventure books for me, both my parents taught at our local TAFE and I used to go hang out in the library there with the librarians. Sounds amazing. There was nobody monitoring what I was reading, so I picked up Jaws and read the first page and it went back on the shelf.

That was too scary for a little girl. but the Choose Your Adventures were great and I could sit and never knew which direction I was going in next and there would be the highs and lows of, oh, no, everything ended because I chose that way. Okay. But, yeah, those books have really stayed with me and that experience of learning to be a reader, without anyone telling me. So I could go to that library and choose whatever book. And so there were James Bonds there. There were all sorts of things.

And I could just learn what I liked and what I enjoyed to read. And I also just love expanding my own general knowledge. So I'm a lifelong learner, I guess. And that was where some of those fundamentals came in, was just hanging out at the library, figuring out what I liked, using the microfiche, which I don't think kids understand the joy of what a microfiche was. What were they called, the little library catalogues that you flicked through? Yes.

Because you used to be able to pretend that you were like a researcher or a storied, and I'm probably revealing all my nerdiness. It's full glory. So I have no idea what we're talking about. And those stamps. I used to love seeing the stamp go down on the back of the book.

Now everything's digital it's like just not the same i don't think and this and the smell especially if you go into an older library and there's that paper smell as well but all the memories, it's good stuff yes and having to wait for television shows if you watched a show one week you had to wait a full seven days to find out what happened next Yes, and if you missed it, that was it. You couldn't watch it again.

It's been so good to chat to you. I've really appreciated you sharing your books with me and just sharing that process as well. So I'm like, how would you even write a book like that? Because in my head when I'm writing, I'm like, oh, I'll just write the first chapter and then the second chapter and then the third. And I don't think when you're writing a book that is actually how any of it works. It's how we're used to reading them. It's how we're used to digesting the books.

So it's a natural point to start. With the one coming out in September, will you be having a launch or being anywhere where readers can find you? Yeah, I expect we will. I haven't quite got my ducks in a row yet with that. But for each of the books so far, what I've done is I've dressed up and I've gone gallivanting around the country. So I haven't quite figured out. I do have an idea in mind for the Dragon book, actually.

And I usually try and do some things in my local community, the libraries and the bookshops, to just bring some free activities for the kids that are just as interactive as the books. So I'll probably set my mind to doing something like that again. A lot of the books are certainly at the moment for Escape from Marigold Manor. A lot of the bookstores are running a bit of an in-store whodunit mystery. You go in and follow the clues in-store.

Just as a bit of fun. A lot of them ran it through the school holidays, which was wonderful to see. And for people wishing to purchase your book, they can come to racheljackson.com.au. Yes, got the website there. Racheljackson.com.au will link you through to the Riveted Press website where you can purchase directly. Books are also available in all the independent bookshops and Escape from Marigold Manor is also in Big W. In Big W as well. That's the dream.

It was exciting and everyone saw it before me. But honestly, the local bookshops have really blown me away with how supportive they are and I have a whole new appreciation for the value of the independent bookstores and what incredible people they are. Yes, they're so dedicated. Yeah. Here in Brisbane, we have a wonderful group of children's bookstores, which they're like the lifeblood of the writing community here.

It's amazing. I always enjoyed going into bookstores, but this has given me a peek behind the curtain and I just have so much respect and admiration for the industry behind the curtain with us.

I'm going to say children's book publishing in general. Local authors are so reliant on their local bookstores to get our books in front of people, but then also the understanding of how hard they're working to just stay open in terms of a bookshop is a hard slog, and yet the booksellers always have a smile on their face and always are so supportive and creative with ideas as well in terms of how they support you. which is wonderful.

It is. It's just been some beautiful experiences and some beautiful friendships fall out of it too. Yes, yes. Luckily, one of my bookshops is only about 12 minutes from my house, so it's turned into my local a little bit. So it's very easy when somebody's launching their book there because I can just duck down and grab a coffee and enjoy the launch.

But I also find myself driving all over Brisbane because we've got some north side, some south side, and you kind of try to support all your fellow authors and the bookshops by going everywhere. That's one unique thing I love about Brisbane is the bookshops here are reasonably accessible and it's good to say hello and everybody becomes friends and it's nice. Yes. I live in quite a rural setting, so I need to make quite a trip to get to the bookstores.

So I try and make a little itinerary when I can go and see some bookstores and some libraries all in one go, and I've always really enjoyed it.

Do you have some advice for the pre-writer you that you would share with yourself if you could go back to the start of your writing journey? If somebody had told me the sandbox analogy 10 years early, that would have been very helpful and I wouldn't have so many half-completed drafts. Enjoy it. Just enjoy the process. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be right.

It's okay to just enjoy it. It doesn't have to go anywhere. I think that's a mistake you can make is writing to be published and writing for the creation of a story. Thinking you have to write for a purpose. If it's not going to be something, why am I spending time with this? Well, because you enjoy it. It's a creative outlet and it's really healthy for your brain. And if you could give a piece of advice to an emerging writer or an aspiring

writer, do you have a piece of advice you could share? Back yourself. I think there's always a place to accept feedback, but I don't see many people who have an issue with that.

Just back yourself you're writing for a reason you obviously enjoy it you love it you've got something to say go with that i think the answers are actually really easy to write and so we're always asking how did you do it how can i do it and really i think the answer is just just get started sit down and write yeah it's so individual so yes by all means ask around and see what works for other people, you might get some things that help you out, but find how it works for you.

You know, how does it make you happy? How do you feel at pace with it? Well, thank you so much for joining me. It's been lovely to meet you and get to know you better and to hear about your work, and I look forward to September 2025.

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