Empowering Young Readers: A Conversation with Karen Tyrrell

Music. In the spirit of reconciliation, I acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community.

I pay my respects to the elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island peoples today. Welcome to Totally Lit, the podcast celebrating reading, writing and creating literature. I'm your host, Kai Garvey. Thank you for listening. This episode, I have the amazing Karen Tyrrell as my guest. She is a wonderful supporter of the KidLit community here in Brisbane.

Karen is an award-winning child empowerment author, children's rights ambassador, teacher and keynote speaker, creating books and workshops to empower kids to live strong. I hope you enjoy our chat. Karen Tyrrell, welcome to Totally Lit. Thank you so much for joining me. It's wonderful to be here. Very exciting to have an interview by you. You've got some super exciting news since I last saw you. Do you want to share some of the wonderful things that are happening in your world at the moment?

Okay, well I'll share them in order. On the 18th of October, I launched my book, Logan, Then and Now, written by myself and illustrated by Megan Forwin. And the exciting news is it's part of a literacy project from the Bean Lee Quota Club, and they're giving 1,000 copies of this book to students at schools. Oh, wonderful. And it's all free.

And is that going to be in the Logan area? Yes, it's all in the Logan and Beanley schools. And it's directed to Year 2 because Year 2 study then and now is part of their HASS curriculum, which is history, arts and social science. So it's Year 2 students in 12 schools will be getting free copies. Excellent. So did you research all the history to go into that book yourself?

For about a year before i wrote it now probably nine months nine months i went to all the locations, i found out all the information took photographs my husband steve was a big part of it and also we went to all the libraries to get historical photos because how it works i'll just show you a page one page is the then which has all the history and historical photos which i got from the state library and the right page is what you can do at that place now with what

children can do so it's children activities at that place and we have a strong indigenous features in the book at the beginning and the end so we're very proud of that and this is book two in a series book one was called follow the sugar trail that one was my first commission book and that was commissioned by three clubs, Rotary, Quota and Seroptimus. This one was Quota Only, which is an all-women's group.

That's amazing. And when you planned those books, did you look at the school curriculum in your local area and write those to match the curriculum or has it been a coincidence? Well, I did heavily do research on the Australian curriculum. I had all the links to Haas and I made sure that I covered all those areas, plus the places were negotiated between me and Quota. So it would be places that were...

Quite well known to children and to adults and that are frequented already so there'll be places that when the children read it say oh I know I've been to that park I've been I've crossed that bridge I've been to that art centre so it it would be yeah a bit familiar to them and they want to read more to find out the history yeah yeah so it sounds like there's been quite a bit of work yes and my with my husband Steve and with the quota people and without my lovely illustrator,

She illustrated everything. All the pages. I gave her the text. I gave her the photos. I gave her the historical photos, all the research I did, and she compiled them into a book with her own illustration. So, yeah, it's all good. Wonderful. And that's not the only fantastic thing that's happening at the moment. No.

I just happen to have the book in question. It's called Let's Play. It's my, I don't know, because they're all coming different sequences. So you could call it book two because, yeah, it started last year in 2023 and it's published by Play Matters and they commissioned me to write this book and it was different to my books with Quater and with Rotary because a lot of that was negotiated.

Now, Play Matters had a very particular brief for me to follow and links and things I had to read and I had to I had to tick all the boxes for the book and it this was run like a competition almost a small select people and I don't know who the other people were were asked to write the book and the one that they liked the most won but like a competition and that person got paid for it as well so, yeah so that's how that book was and i've got some good news on this book too

because it won an award it was winner of the uh speech pathology book of the year for our children.

For birth to three years old so we won that on thursday and it's so i've got my medals on there i've got a gold medal which is my recent one and they also got my shortlisted medal which i won a couple of months ago it was shortlisted so yeah and I've also got an award but I think I've just packed it away because I've got an event tomorrow so I think I've just packed it away ready for my event tomorrow are you taking it with you yes and I'm taking it to write links

tomorrow as well so you might see it there yeah so oh yes the big news with this book the sequel is coming out on the 20th of November I'm not allowed to say the title yet but it's derivative of this book or the next step of this book and all will be revealed on the 20th and it's it's it celebrates it's it's celebrated on the universe on the united nations children's day so that's the day that it will be in my calendar and look out for it yeah it will be launched by plain matters

australia and you can see plain matters there too oh i've got it i've got it actually a surprise i suppose It's a, it's a surprise because my books are on discount at Play Matters Australia at the moment, and I can give you the discount code. So if you go to the Play Matters website, the discount code is KAREN, capital letters, K-A-R-E-N 20. And you put that in the discount code and you get a great big discount and it's already been discounted.

So you get a discount on a discount and that discount lasts till the end of November. Amazing. I'll include that in the show notes so people can find the website and purchase a copy. Thank you. So, yeah, so that's the two Logan books and that's the two Play Matters books. Now, I've got some other news that you don't know about. I've been told, I have to read it word for word or I'm not allowed to read it at all. So, I'm going to read it word for word. You're hearing it here first,

folks. Yeah, you're hearing it first and please do not tell anybody until your podcast comes out. It's on embargo. Just between you and me.

Got an embargo and this is it and I'm going to read it because I want to get it right. Jenny Stubbs, on behalf of the Rosewood History Group, which is part of the Rosary and District Support Centre, won a grant through the Community Bank, Rosewood and District Branch of Bendigo bank for me to write an historical picture book for them for a very special celebrations which I will talk about more later. Oh it's very exciting. Yes.

2024 is your year Karen. This will be the fifth commissioned book yeah so lots of big things are happening at the moment it's very busy at my house because I've got to really think before I yeah I've got to really organize my day.

Oh I can imagine and I love because I follow you on social media that you and your husband Steve support each other so much when one is doing one wonderful thing you're cheering the other on I think that's amazing yeah I've got a pretty fantastic husband and family and yeah we're all supportive of each other and it's it's wonderful so did you want to share a little bit about how you started with these commissioned a book because it might be something that our listeners aren't

familiar with in terms of it being an option for writing okay now it's a little bit involved but it's it's it's something doable if you're willing to have a go okay so um and this is what i how i think it happened the very first book was follow the sugar trail the rotary book right and how they chose me to write it is they asked around who would be good at writing a commission book and who and who is good at project managing or managing an illustrator an editor format of the printer

and I have done this is like I've print indie published 17 books so I've done that many times before you're an expert now yeah well I suppose I am well they consider I never thought of being writing for commission books they came to me one was a bookshop the bookshop.

Contacted rotary and said i know this this author that can project manage and she and she distributes books and things like that and i think she could write your book so and there was and the other person i never found out who the other person was but i know one was a bookshop because the bookshop told me said i just recommended you i said oh it was very nice of you so that's how it started and then once they contacted me then you we started off with having meetings and at first it was it

was a pretty general idea of what they wanted and I gave my ideas so it was very collaborative we worked together we talked about what the book could look like what the themes could be who the characters could be because I have two characters in my two Logan books a boy and a girl and also an animal which is a sugar glider so the sugar glider talks about the histories always on the history pages and the children are always on the, on the now pages,

what they are doing as an activity because there can't be just facts because who, who, I mean, children don't want to read facts. They want to read something that's engaging, that's got something to do with them. So yeah. So that's how it started and we negotiated it through.

I've actually, over the years I have, because I project managed before, I've created contracts with people just to make sure it's clear what they are doing, what am I doing, who's paying what and I've signed other people that make contracts for me and I've made contracts for them so I know a little bit about that what's the expectation.

It's mainly about the timeline and when who gets paid when and it's all about initially because it's like a business deal in a lot of ways so it's usually once you've done all the negotiating you work out what you're going to write it's usually when you start writing, you get 50% and then when we finish writing, you get the other 50%, but that also goes for the illustrator. The editor, and also you're responsible for collecting quotes for people.

So you collect the quotes and you represent that to the main commissioner body and they pick, oh, we'll have that one, we'll have that one, and then it's all worked out. So that's one way to do it, but there's more, I said, explain how PlayMatters was different because that was like, I didn't need to be a project manager because they are a publisher in their own right, they project manage me.

Ah, so you just have to do the creative part. Yeah, they picked their illustrator, they picked me, they picked all their editors. My role with Play Matters was the author and also probably also I have the role of promotions and marketing for them and giving them advice on distributing, things like that, things from, because I've had experience with library suppliers, book suppliers, things like that.

You can share your wealth of experience with them. I didn't realize I knew all of these things because I'd just been doing them automatically for a while. And then when someone asks you, oh, could you do that? Oh yeah, I suppose I could do that. Couldn't I? You know, sort of, it was a bit of a surprise, but you know, and the book with Jenny will go probably a similar process that it's gone with my quota and Beanley group of just negotiating what we're going to, what I'm going to write and.

And will that be a focused on kids or will it be focused on it's definitely it's all children what they have in common they're all for children they're all picture books and if you do some research on commission books in most cases they are picture books because um a community group wants to get the book out to the community via text and through pictures and and perhaps old photos or something else but it's usually children's books, children's picture books.

Do you have any involvement with applying for grants or sourcing funding or have you just been part of the creative process? Rotary and Quota, excellent at fundraising. They did that all on their own. They are born to do it. I'm sure they could raise $1,000 in a week if they wanted to. They're very good at, you know, like creating events, you know, doing raffles, all sorts of things. Yeah. And I'd leave that to them.

And they're responsible. You know that if a huge club like that, they have the money behind them, they will pay you. So you don't have to worry about, you know, not being paid by a large.

Community service group like that. Would you encourage other writers that might like to connect with their local community groups to try suggesting writing a picture book for their local community? Yeah, of course. But I think it would be valuable to get that experience as a project manager, maybe set up their own publishing imprint. You need a publishing imprint. You need an ABN. and you need to have some experience, you can show them that this is the book that I made.

This is the grant that, like, I have had grants before. I have actually won.

Seven slash eight grants because one grant is in the is in the making I suppose because that's not quite been announced yet but the grants I have one have gone into my own indie published books and I've got yeah I started that but the early grants were just grants to get courses to attend courses writing courses it can be expensive to educate yourself oh yes it is yeah I know I've always think twice you know I just think carefully about how many books can I sell and look at the market and just

I usually these days I just think if you can win a grant it's usually a good sign that your book is marketable right and then you could go ahead and you and you've already got the money behind you so and you've got people behind you because the people that supported the grant they they gave you a letter of support I want you to succeed as well so I think a grant's a great way to go about it and to get experience because if you indie publish your book then you

are going to be a project manager and you're going to organize all those people to get your book out so there's a lot a lot involved it sounds like i'm not sure if i could do it all by myself look you just need need to do lots of research research ask questions a lot of a lot of things are online if you ask how to win a grant or how to project manage how of this there's so much information out there it's so easy to connect with it.

And access any information yeah but permission books can sometimes just come out of the blue it came out of. The blue for me yeah and also i think another important thing because some claim that is they didn't want me they didn't want me to project manager manager they didn't want me to to print their book or anything like that they were doing that all.

Themselves but i belong to a lot of i do a lot networking in the children's community through schools through uh i'm a queen i'm a queensland rights ambassador i'm a school ex-school teacher i i do a lot of thing community working in just just around and i get invited to be a keynote speaker so i think the more you get yourself out there the more that people know especially in the kids space that you are creating books in the kids space you are speaking at maybe at a conference on some element

of that children's education or children's looking after children in in the community I mean you know Kai you've got all that all that background with all your special special needs um background you know and I'm sure a lot of thousands of people will know you because of that yeah and one thing that I've noticed with your commission books is you're out in the community and. Once those books are published, you're also doing your pantomime shows and your story times and it looks so much fun.

So for me, I'm like, oh, I would love to write a commissioned book that would then lead me to being able to connect with the little readers because that's really the best part of writing is the fun with the kids. You seem to really put your all into it. I admire you a great deal.

What I would tell you buy some puppets that are related to your story and tell your story with a puppet in your hand you're going to have all the kids eyes on your hand and your other hand is going to be writing a story or get a friend or a partner to sort of co-work together co-present a storytelling session one with puppets are always going to win yeah because I'm actually doing an event tomorrow with puppets Steve's got the puppets I've

got the story and the book and you know we We have fun together. We make the kids laugh. You've got to have funny, silly puppets or puppets that do funny, silly things because then the kids are going to be watching and it's, yeah, if you're having fun, then everybody else in the audience are going to be having fun as well. Oh, that sounds great. I need some tips for presentations with kids because I'm not a natural performer.

It just takes practice just to get in front of that mirror or even, you know even not in the mirror but just practice because you have to physically make those actions and practice them and practice being silly and exaggerate I actually I am more relaxed with children than I am with probably peers I always get a little bit nervy with peers with people my own you know my own you know writers and things like that a little bit nervy sometimes but I'm never nervous with kids I just love because yeah

it has helped to be you know all of my years of being a school teacher, but it's something that can be learned. By practice. Watch some of those puppets on YouTube and get your puppet and start imitating it. I've learned a lot of things. Anything I can't do, I just go and look on YouTube. Okay. Before we finish, I'd just love to hear if you have a tip that you'd like to pass on to emerging picture book authors. Okay. Is it about commission books or just general? About commission books. Okay.

All right. I've got some notes here. I might just read them out but that's all right this is a summary i've probably mentioned some of these before so i will how can authors write commission books you ask set up a publishing imprint indie publish books to the highest standard project manage illustrators editors cover designers formatters distribute books through bookshops it takes a while to to get a rapport with bookshops but it does happen and they're usually the same people who are

in the bookshops now and probably We were there 10 years ago when I first started, so not many new bookshops really. And also find out about library suppliers and how you can connect with them and distributors. A network, join many community organisations, anything to do with children and your expertise in the children's space as a writer, as a teacher, as anything to do with social or community organisations.

We remember word gets around and you could be contacted to write a commissioned book because when Play Matters, I've never heard of Play Matters. Play Matters came to me and said, would you like to write a book? And they gave me a brief, really, really, and then they said, are you interested? I said, yeah. So then they sent me the whole lot. And I thought, oh, I think I want to do this. This sounds great. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge around commissioned books. And I was really so pleased to see your speech pathology award this week. I was like, yes, perfect timing because we're going to chat this week. Well, thank you so much, Karen. My pleasure. Totally Lit is an independent podcast. You can help support us to continue to chat with wonderful Australian creatives by leaving a review on iTunes or sharing our socials with your friends.

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