Dani Vee -Totally Lit Turns Five: Celebrating Creativity and Connection

Music. In the spirit of reconciliation, I acknowledge the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community.

I pay my respects to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. I'm coming to you from Meantan country and gratefully acknowledge the Turbul and Jerrica people. Welcome to Totally Lit, the podcast celebrating reading, writing and creating literature. I'm your host, Kai Garvey. Thank you for listening. It's the Totally Lit birthday episode. I don't know how I got here, but we're celebrating Totally Lit's fifth birthday.

That's right. Five years ago, I had this crazy idea to start a podcast, and here we are. Thank you to my amazing guests who've helped provide wonderful content on books and literature for our listeners. Keep an ear out to hear from some of my special guests throughout the episode. I want to do a special shout out to Mike, my producer, and more importantly, my husband, who edits all our episodes and helps my guests and I sound amazing. He is definitely the man behind the podcast.

I'd also like to say happy pod birthday to the Not Quite Right podcast. Amanda and Ed, you are absolute legends. Check out their pod and their amazing Not Quite Right writing competition. It's next level. Also, a big happy birthday to Danny V and the Words and Nerds podcast is also your birthday. Love your work, Danny.

Speaking of Dani V, I'm thrilled to share our recent chat. I thought it would be timely to release this episode to celebrate our pod birthdays. Dani V is the host of the popular literary podcast Words and Nerds, where she chats to authors about writing and books. An English educator and a bookworm from birth? Don't even get her started on her favourite book, Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray. Dani is most content with a blanket, a chamomile tea, plenty of dark chocolate

and a book. She is terrible with directions, can never keep her brain still and loves a good laugh. She knows two chords on her guitar and hopes that one day she'll have time to learn a third. Today, we are chatting about Denny's first junior fiction, Riley's Fail-Proof Guide to Breaking a School Record, illustrated by Jules Faber and published through Larrikin House. I hope you enjoy our chat.

Denny V, welcome to Totally Lit. Hello. It's so good to be back. It feels like forever, doesn't it? What have you been up to since we last chatted? There's been so many things. Well, if only I could remember the last time we've chatted. It's been over 12 months. So we chatted about My Extraordinary Mum, and that was your first release. But now Dad is on the scene as well. So we've got my epic Dad. There's three of you.

And then I wrote my first junior fiction. So that is Riley's Failproof Guide to Breaking a School Record. So that was a really different process from picture book to junior fiction. But, yeah, I love the vibe of it. You know, it's your first one and I think you always go back and sort of think, oh, I could have done this, the better and that better being, you know, that kind of perfectionist brain.

But at the end of the day, like I'm just so proud of that first body of work that was such a labour because I didn't know what I was doing and now it exists and it's gorgeous and it's had some really – Down in the world. Yeah, it's been a busy year and, of course, working in publishing as well and doing all the things, all the things, Kai, all the things. And you did have a beautiful new website come out as well, which I'm very jealous. Oh, that's awesome. Gin and Co are fabulous.

And they've really, because I just don't have a brain for that. Like I love social media, love the podcasting, and my brain stops at websiteing. But people still look at them and I think you still need them. And so Gin and Co have just done this beautiful job on my website. So I'm eternally grateful for the work they've done on that. I just had a little bit of a vision and I said, I'm just going to leave it to you experts. And they created something amazing.

And how has the response been to your junior fiction? Because you've had a few book launches recently and been promoting the book. Have you had any young readers give you any feedback on the book? Yeah, it's been really special. I had the big book launch in Sydney, Agly Books, which was amazing. And Jules was there. And the kidlit community just came out in droves because they're so supportive. So that was really wonderful.

And then Melbourne, I had like a little mini book launch. It was really more just can I hang out with my writer mates at a pub and celebrate the book and that was, you know, that book launch just felt like a big warm hug. So, that was really nice. And yes, I've had some reviewers say that their kids have loved it, that it's made them look up stuff about the environment and polar bears and all that kind of stuff.

But I think the cutest thing was when I was at my local QBD who've been really super supportive of the book and did this, you know, bulk order and they had my book on the wall in September and the new releases, which was the most exciting, you know, thing that's happened to me, I think, in the book world, seeing your book on the wall and every QBD. And so I did this local signing at a QBD store and all my daughter's friends came with their mums. That would have been cool.

Signed and then, you know, I'd see them when I went to pick up and drop off my kids and they're all saying that they've read it and they love this bit and they love this bit. And so I went to the school and did a bit of a talk and they had their hands up going, oh, we read it and we liked this chapter and we love Riley and we love Henry.

So I think that was just really special because, you know, they're my daughter's friends and they all came out to support me and then they all read the book and really enjoyed it. And it was written for them in that age group, you know, my daughter's in year four and it was written for those kind of girls. So that was probably really special.

So a little bit about the writing process, what made you wanted to start with a junior fiction? Was there a seed of an idea there that you wanted to share with the world? Way before picture books, I was starting with crime. So I was writing adult crime and, you know, I had a short story published this year in Dark Deeds 2. Well done. So that was fun. And then I just missed out on the shortlist for a banjo prize in HarperCollins. That was the number one. Congratulations.

Well, I just missed out on the shortlist. I don't know if congratulations is worthy, but I was pretty proud. It was my first sort of one, but it never got anywhere after that. And then I just sort of fell into picture books. I've always loved all sorts of books. I was an English teacher, so I've read, you know, picture books, kids' books, classics, whatever.

Just love reading good stories no matter what form they're in and then so when adrian and i had the publishers on for our publishing special i just thought i really want to give kids books a go they seem really fun and you know adrian had given me a lot of advice and we talked a lot about kids books then and then i'd met james from larrick and house and i knew that larrick and house was the publisher that sort of vibed with the work that i wanted to

put out because i wanted to do some funny stuff and so then picture books were born because that's you know all our publishing at the time,

but it was never an intention to just lock into one thing. I kind of, I want to write a. Everything and anything that I can you know so you know then Larkin House expanded so I had this JFIC idea it was actually it's actually sort of a combined idea where James was like well what happens if you know there's this really unlucky kid and so I started thinking about that and then I thought you know you look at Wimpy Kid which obviously is a phenomenal success but

it's a lot of the times the boy is in the action the boy is unlucky and I'm like and my daughter found it really hard and still does to find herself in books because she's not that typical girly girl if you like she's quite original and I thought well what if you have a girl she's not she's not alone in this you know what if you had a girl who was unlucky he was a bit gross he was a bit weird who sort of fell into the action like so many boys have done

in stories and it just like you might be writing me a little Kylie there I think so many girls have that experience you know like I feel like I had a similar experience growing up, you know, in the 80s, 90s. I had a BMX bike. I loved a little matchbox car. They also had Barbies, but I had the whole thing, you know, all of it. And so I think just putting a girl in the action is where I wanted to go with that.

And I really wanted to be funny and lean into that humor because, you know, girls can be just as funny and silly and gross. And so it was less about gender and more just like being a kid. But what happens if there's a girl in the action? Guess what? Nothing happens. It's just as good. Do you know what I mean? So I just was wondering why so many spots had been reserved for boys. So, yeah.

But I really, I loved the characters in it and I still really love, you know, the vegan dad and Henry who brings cockroaches to parties and Riley who's just so resilient and has tried to break a record, you know, 99 times since kindergarten and has failed every time and, you know, even the dog has broken a school record but she can't. So I kind of like that resilience and optimism, which is also what I put in

my epic dad. You know, he appears to be very unlucky, but at the end of the day, he's really resilient and, you know, he's a great out-of-your-comfort-zone stuff. Isn't it? If you fail, you just get up and try again. What choice do we have? Hivot. But I think that's like an important message to share with kids as well is that the way you succeed is by continuing to try. So that's a great message. You know, failing as well, like that's what happens. It's going to continue to happen in your life.

And how you deal with that I think shapes your life, you know, and then shapes your luck if you like in the future because if you have that, quit as mindset, well, then you won't achieve anything. But if you think, well, I'm just going to keep cracking away at it or change direction or pivot, as you just said. I mean, I think eventually you kind of have to succeed, I hope.

And when you sat down to write, did you have to do a crash course in junior fiction or did you just write and hope that it turned out? Yeah, I've always been a massive reader for the podcast as an English teacher. I've always sort of read 80 to 100 books a year for as long as I can remember, like a range of books. And I taught in high school. So I was always reading and even high school, you know, some of those kids had low reading ages.

So I was always reading that kind of book. And this idea just lent itself to junior fiction. Like I didn't think it quite made middle grade and it was obviously, you know, needed more story than a picture book. So I kind of knew, and I always read, like I make it my business to read everything, but I also make it my business to read those people who are top of their game, you know?

So even whether you like it or not, read these books because they're resonating for reason, you know, so I'll always get the best-selling books and go, okay, what is it that makes this book magic or resonate for kids? And so I sort of knew the theory of it, but writing it was, of course, a very different story. And I always think self-doubt, is a good thing, as long as it doesn't paralyze you, because self-doubt makes you keep wanting to make the work better.

That was my problem with Riley. I knew what I wanted to do, but it just took me a long time to find the character voice. And I just wanted to be really honest with myself this time and not say, oh yeah, it's there, it's fine. And just say, it's not there yet. And I just had to keep writing through it until I found it. And there were points where I was like, what if I never confined this character voice? But then, you know, another voice came in and said, you've just got to keep pushing through.

And so I stuck with it and I had my kids as my testers and they were just brutal every time, which I'm kind of glad for because they really did sort of make me realise what kids find funny and what they don't. I don't know what they grow up, have to find some more young children to test my work. I think they will always tell you the truth no matter how old they are, though. They're this age, so this is what they're reading, so they're really that age. Screw it.

But, yeah, so it took me about three, maybe four months just to write the first three chapters because I just kept rewriting, rewriting and trying to find these characters' voices and trying to find them and trying to find the opening scene because I wanted to open big. You know, I didn't want to, I wanted to open silly and big just to set up the tone of the story.

And so three or four months later, I'd found a scene where she'd super glued herself to the school therapy dog, which was also the principal's dog, which set up the relationship. I'm laughing already. I set up the relationship between her and the principal and, you know, her friends and, you know, I told my kids about the idea and they said, yep, that's the kind of ridiculous where you need to go.

And then I finally found Riley's voice. And once I found her voice and that opening scene after it took three or four months to write the first three chapters, it took me about two months to write the rest. It was just finding that. And I find that that's always the case with me now. You have to find that voice however long it takes me. And once I find it, I can go. But it's a frustrating story. up a gear and it goes but I'm like in neutral for four months.

So you had your kids read it. Who else did you, because I know you've got quite a great network of people around you, who was the first person you shared it with that was a writer? It was R.W.R. MacDonald, who is amazing. And some picture books and also John Larkin. So I've known John Larkin for a very long time. He used to come out to my school when I was a teacher like 15, 20 years ago and come out as an author. And I've known Rob for probably six or seven years now.

And so they'd offer it. Like I don't like to put, you know, please read my manuscript on my friends who are busy and I want people to, you know, offer. So I don't feel like a burden. So we're all really busy. So Rob had always offered and John had always offered. And they gave some just really, I just knew I could trust them. Like I could trust them to give me A, the right feedback. They knew the intent of the work and I could really trust them.

And I knew they'd be really kind to me, but I said, don't be kind. Like I need this to be really good. You need honesty. Yeah, absolutely. But Rob was hilarious. John is, you know, forever supportive. He's a wonderful human. And I remember Rob saying to me, Danny, I love the characters and I love the action and I won't swear, but you can imagine what the word is he said. He goes, but where the hell are they? And what is it? No location. So focused on character, obsessed with character,

obsessed with humour and the action. But I'm like, oh, well, of course they're at school, but I should probably put that in. So it's a joke between us now. He's like, well, where are they, Dani? World building. Yeah, but I think the editor would have obviously picked that up but it was so much better to the editor where setting was already there.

So I think you need to give it to someone you trust, someone who knows about writing and so they can give you that really gold advice that just will change your manuscript. Then, of course, the editor, Kim Astle was my editor and she was just phenomenally amazing and I just learnt so much from her and she just really got the manuscript, you know, and she'd make these suggestions and I'd be like, oh, yeah, of course.

And so she just, I love it when someone can just lock into what you're trying to do and just be there on the side saying, oh, what about this?

Oh, you could do this or how about you change this? And she was just a dream to have on my side. So, yeah, that was a fun experience. And because I know how busy you are, how did you squeeze your writing in amongst all your other activities? Yeah, it's a question. It's probably, I've got to say, the question that I get asked the most, how do you do all of this? And it makes me a little bit anxious because I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I just do it.

I just do it. And then I start questioning whether I'm doing too much and is that why my mental health sometimes suffers, et cetera, et cetera.

Going to test me down a bit of a rabbit hole to be honest but it was last year that I discovered that I actually had ADHD and so I was a late diagnosed quite late in life and everything just made sense you know every as soon as I got that diagnosis everything just fell into place I was like oh okay and some people said I'd feel this kind of grief for not discovering it earlier but all I felt was relief I was like everything makes sense now you know I'm not a terrible person I'm not a flake.

I'm not this. I'm not that. This is just how my brain works. And so I sort of had an appreciation for it. I mean, ADHD, there's great things about it, but there are also challenges about it. And I said to my friend who was also diagnosed, I said, oh, but I've got these systems and I've got all these calendars and these reminders and these post-it notes and telling him how I get through each day. And he was like, yeah, life's not that hard for everyone.

And it really made me pause because I was like, oh, oh, okay.

Some people can just get up and do their day okay so that was a bit of a game changer but I was like well I've managed it this this for this long and the only thing that I sort of need help with is managing the anxiety but I think I was misdagnosed as having anxiety disorder and panic disorder when it was all stemming from ADHD.

So now that I know that this is a really long version of this answer card yeah not just telling you about my medical history so but that sort of explains why I can do things very quickly, I can multitask, I don't want to say perfectly, but to a point. And I don't sleep much. And I try and sleep. Like I try and go, let's get eight hours sleep. My brain just won't do it. Yeah, mine doesn't slow down at night. It doesn't matter what time I go to bed.

My brain's like five, six hours. That's enough for you. Wake up. So I just fit a lot in. And I've got that kind of brain where I don't like to be idle. So if I'm sitting there and I'm just not doing anything, I can't not do anything. I can't not do anything. I have to do something. And it doesn't always have to be productive work, but I have to be doing something

with my kids or doing something in the house. Or, you know, if I've got a spare minute, I'll edit a podcast or I'll squeeze in some writing. Like I really do have that belief of if you write 30 minutes a day, you know, you will sort of chip away at it. And sometimes I don't always get to that, but I try my best and I'll even do it on my phone.

You know, if I'm waiting for my kids after school, instead of just standing there doing nothing, I'll be like, oh, I'll just crack out a paragraph or something. So it's just using that time and not in a way that's punishing, just in a way that My brain kind of always just needs to be on. So that's a very long answer to your question, Kai. Did you see the post recently from Paris Hilton saying ADHD is her superpower? Yeah, yeah. Do you feel like that around your diagnosis?

Some ways, yes. But I think it's a, I don't want to say battle, but it's a juxtaposition. So yes, superpower, I can get so much done in such a little time. I've got heaps of energy. I just think really fast and I can get things done and I can be quite hyper-focused on things but obviously the downside for me has always been the anxiety it's probably the biggest thing for me not sleeping is not always great.

No you do need rest to keep going that's right sometimes I just want to go oh my god can I just turn my brain off and just you know meditate or sit or something and you know I do try and do that because I think it's really important for your mental health but my brain just kind of has a mind of its own so I appreciate my brain now that I understand it but sometimes it can be a challenge and I've got to force myself into rest and sort of tear my brain for

it because I've had quite a really few busy weeks I've had you know quite the year as you've probably seen on social media last weekend I was like I just have to do nothing I feel like I'm going to break you know So I just forced myself into nothingness where we just sat around and we ate and we binged watched TV and we went and sat in a park. So as long as I'm doing something like that and, you know, I felt myself feeling so much better. So I think I just have to do that for my brain.

I have to force rest upon it or I fall into that sort of anxiety spiral.

Speaking about mental health, I was engaging with a counsellor who had said to me, well, you don't have to do everything you do you don't have to do your podcast you don't have to do your writing and like. But that's like the quintessential part of me. It's what makes me who I am. I don't want to stop those things.

So it can be stressful trying to make everything happen, but it also motivates me and gives me a sense of identity and purpose that is outside of those regular mum duties or in my case, I'm also caring for two boys on the spectrum, which can be interesting at times.

I love them to bits but sometimes so I'm like oh this is a bit much but I've really found by embracing my creative side and doing these things that sometimes seem like it's a big project but I'm like no I'm gonna do it because it gives me I guess a sense of worth as well do you find that with some of the things you engage in I think I've read this thing and it's become quite popular now but it's the choose your heart so you can choose your heart and you can write and you can have a day

job and you can lean into all that creativity, which, you know, like you said, it's hard to find the space for that sometimes, but you can choose your heart and not do the creative stuff. And for me, that's far harder than trying to squeeze it in. And I've always had a creative pursuit in my life, whether it's been, you know, I used to be in bands, in pub bands or like a show that my dad ran, like a Tina Turner show.

I wasn't Tina Turner, I was a backup dancer, just in case you're curious, or I've been in theatre groups or, you know, the podcast or anything like that and writing. So I've always had a creative pursuit alongside whatever it is I was doing. And that has saved me, I think, you know, saved me anxiety-wise and it's fed me. And I just need that in my life. So it's about choosing your heart, you know. And I think everything you make has an element of challenge to it.

You know, you go to uni or don't go to uni. There's a challenge or a difficulty to both. And that's in everything. Like if you think relationships, you think food, health, busyness, all of that stuff, choose your heart because they're hard on both ends but you've got to think what the end goal is. And if I don't create something, the end goal is not good for me.

So I'm squeezing things in and making sure I force my rest and we're talking before we press record the saying no and it's very hard I think in our positions as podcasters there's not a lot of publicity particularly for children's books, sometimes you know you're those very few platforms that can you know amplify the wonderful books that are out but that's often at the expense of our time and our mental health and our family and everything and so it is hard to draw

a line of who to say no to and who to say yes to. And, you know, they're all very different circumstances. But I think it's important for people to understand that it's important for all of us to say no, and I'm still learning this, and to create boundaries so you can have that rest and you can nurture yourself. And that's what I'm learning because I'm very good at burning myself out. Same here.

I feel like you and I are very similar but also very different because I'm probably much more introverted than you in terms of like I think we may feel the same level of anxiety but we display it in different ways. So for me, because I'm a bit chill, a bit low-key. I had a friend who had ADHD and she was very out there and I was like, I'm like you on Rewind. But yeah, the feeling on the inside is the same, I think.

So I think that's sort of what connects us. And it was funny because it took me a long time to sort of be able to say that I had anxiety because I'd always seen it as this weakness. And I think particularly being a woman, for some reason, I thought I had to be very strong and very tough and break the stereotype, you know, that's, it's just bravado.

And I think it's much more interesting to be a vulnerable human and to say, yeah, you know, I love my shiny pics on Instagram, but not all of that is real. You know, it's a moment in time. And I've been through quite a difficult year this year health-wise. And I've just been sharing a little bit of that, not everything, because no one wants disasters on. No one wants everything. Shared some things. And I'm certainly not showing them when I'm in them.

It's always after the fact because I just can't do it when I'm in the depth of all of that. But sharing the anxiety, and I feel like every time I share a real anxiety post, I just get so many people message me and say, thank you, I'm going through the same thing, showed my daughter this post. So I think it's helping us connect with people.

And if anything can come positive from anxiety, because it doesn't feel very positive when you're having it, if anything can come from that that is positive, it's got to be letting people know they're not alone, connecting with other people. And, you know, you being that person that someone can talk to if they're feeling anxious. And I can't solve your anxiety, but I can certainly deeply empathise with that in an authentic way.

I know how bad this can be. And I do this with my daughter. She's only 10. But she suffers from anxiety. She's like a copy-paste of me. And I know how to talk her through it, you know. And I think the best advice I can give is you feel like you're never going to feel better again and you feel scared. but there's always a way out. And I know that because I've been at the bottom a few times in my life now and I've always found my way out and you will always find your way out.

Just finding people of that because you can so easily get trapped in this. I can't find my way out of this. Yeah, and I think one thing too is like you can always rely on change, like in terms of the moment that you're in now is not where you're going to be in a few weeks.

Like things will change just because time moves on so you can look at your situation if you're feeling really low or anxious you just need to remind yourself well this is not the way it is forever and I've had a pretty interesting crash course in learning how to de-escalate difficult situations with my boys but it took a lot of work on myself to figure that out so it It wasn't, for me, I was like, okay, okay. This is not like a temper tantrum. This is somebody saying to me they're not coping.

How do I let them know that I understand that and bring it right back down again? And it can be really hard work. But, yeah, just having empathy for that person is the key, I think. I saw this beautiful meme this morning. It was about Inside Out 2. And it had a picture of angry and anxiety or sad. And it said, anger is sad's bodyguard. And I thought, how true is that? Like, usually when someone is showing, you know, temper tantrum or anger or something, behind that is fear.

You know, and I found that really interesting. That really resonated with me for my own kids. You know, when they're in that mood, it's usually, you know, it's usually fear. And so I'm very good at identifying that in my daughter in terms of her anxiety because it's me.

Not that I get angry, but, you know, there's that fear. yeah I'm learning to be you know to be openly vulnerable and I've been trying to do that for a couple of years now and I just think it's it's actually quite good for you you know and it's good for you to show people that yeah I'm actually a real human and I'm gonna be okay and most of the time you know I'm out there doing what my best but there are some times you know I can't and

that's I think that's all of us to some extent well all those feelings are actually natural so if you're you are at the point of a panic attack there's a reason why it's not a weakness it is probably because there's too much going on and you just need to take care of yourself and kind of step back a

and take some of those things away. And that's the thing when I'm talking to the boys about if they're angry or they're anxious or they're sad or I'm like, that's the right emotion for the way you're feeling. Everybody feels it, but they have different ways of managing it as well and displaying it. So some people go into themselves and other people go outward, like especially with the people that are angry, it's really them displaying that in an aggressive manner.

But the feelings are natural and certainly not a weakness at all. Anxiety is what has kept us alive. You know, when we were cave people, that's what kept us alive. And so to a certain extent, I'm learning as well and this is all just such a new learning experience. I'm learning to listen to my body, my mind and I'm not ignoring it and going, it'll be fine, it'll be fine. I'm like, okay, what's going on here?

Just like you said, what do I need to change, adjust? what do I need in this moment to you know feel better before I go down that you know spiral of anxiety and it's like this is going to sound really hippie dip Kai but I also have started just to sort of listen to kind of what the universe is telling you I know it sounds really hippie dippy you know instead of being afraid like you said of change or things happening.

You know maybe it's a sign that you need to change you know we're not a tree so maybe it's time that you need to move or change jobs or go in a different direction. And so I kind of see these scary things, and they're still scary, but seeing them as nudges that perhaps you'll look back on and go, oh, that was actually the right direction that I was meant to go on or do something else because we get so comfortable because, you know, like you said, change comes at us.

And so we often don't want to change, make the choice to change because there's a lot, you know, but sometimes I think being forced into it can actually be a good one.

And interested because many aspiring writers want to be where you are at in terms of your speaking at events and getting booked to be at festivals and things like that. How do you manage that? Having, if you're at an event like that and everybody wants to come and chat to you and have some face time with you, does that affect your anxiety or do you have some techniques to manage a day like that? I think because, I think you mentioned, you know, the extrovert and I'm definitely 100% extrovert.

I mean, I do sort of like those quiet moments occasionally where I can sort of regroup and rest, but ultimately I am an ultra extrovert and I get energy from people. So most of the time, 99% of the time when I'm with people, I am at my happiest. I'm at my best. I'm feeding off the energy. I love connecting with people. I love having a laugh. I love being with, you know, people who just get you and you don't have to have that filter on.

You know, we have this beautiful creative crew in Melbourne who we hang out with regularly and you just don't have to filter yourself for one second. And everyone just accepts everyone the way their weird selves.

You just and we say this you know you come as you are if you can't come this time come next time you don't need an excuse you don't need to feel bad this is just meant to be an enjoyable moment that we share together and I think it's just been this beautiful community and you meet people like that in the creative industry everywhere and I think I that's that's I don't have any techniques because I just get my I get my energy from people it's I get

my anxiety when I stop and that's when And I have those moments of anxiety, but I very rarely get them in those big situations because I feel, you know, when there's those moments where you're like, yeah, this is where I feel my best, you know, I'm running a panel. And I think for us, because we have the podcast, you can kind of offer your services as an interviewer. You're an author. You can offer it as an author. I can also give publisher perspective.

So I can offer a few bits and pieces depending on what they want. And so I can go, yeah, I'll just do whatever you want. You know, here's your options of what I can do. And so I remember being on stage wherever it was doing these interviews and I just said at the end, like, this is where I feel the most alive and the most old when I'm up there just talking about books and publishing because that's my passion and what I know.

And, you know, connecting with the audience in whatever way, whether it's this deep and meaningful way or whether you're making them laugh or whatever. So I think that's almost my happy place and meeting new people. It's when I go back and I'm on my own or I'm just like, oh.

But yeah, definitely get my energy from other people. But I also have to make myself take a break from that as well because although I do get my energy from people and I love it, you actually do need to have that downtime and that rest to just re-energize. Even the biggest extroverts need that. Not as much, but we do need it. I definitely find, yeah, when I go to a catch-up with fellow riders or I'm going to BSAD this weekend, it lifts me so much and motivates me.

And like even tonight, us chatting, when I jumped on, I was pretty low vibe. We were having a few difficult conversations, my son and I, this evening, and he's feeling very frustrated with the situation. He was using his outdoor voice, but also had a few tears and things like that. And I was like, oh, honey, I've actually got an interview to do in a minute. Can you please just put this on pause for a minute? So I was a bit heightened as well, but now I'm feeling fantastic.

So it's good for me to be getting out there and connecting as well. Parenting is not for the faint-hearted, no matter what your situation is. They're always. Those are very difficult and challenging moments, but, you know, there's nobody that you love more than your little humans. So, you know, that saves you from all those difficult situations. I thought I'd go back to your crime story that you had published this year. Have you got any more plans to be writing some crime? So?

I hope so. Yeah, so that crime story, it was really fun to write. And, you know, I guess it just gives you a bit of a brain break from the lighthearted kid stuff you're writing. You know, you can delve back into that crime. And I love writing crime. And I honestly don't know if that's ever going to pan out for me. But I think I'm still going to keep giving it a crack anyway, just because it's fun. It's a lot longer, obviously.

But it's just fun to write. So I'm in the middle of digging up something old that I'd written before. That was the one that I mentioned that got outside of the banjo. And, you know, Adrian and Rob were like, that was really good. You should really look at it again. So I'm having a look at that again to see if there's, you know, any way of salvaging it. And I'm actually giving a crack at an adult fiction as well. We always, because we're in, you know, we're always talking creatively with

people we know. Sometimes we just sit there and come up with titles that might work, you know, for books. And I was talking about my experience at Mother's Group and I just said, oh, seriously, I could write a book about I hated everyone in my mother's group, like not entirely. It wasn't. Anyway, and I was like, oh, my God, that's the best title ever. I'm like, oh, my God, that is a great title. So I'm in the middle of tackling that to see if I can make something of that.

So my intention is to have this sort of fun, crimey story. Don't worry, no young mothers are going to be harmed. Awesome. Or babies, so don't panic. Babies are safe. Babies and young mums are safe. Don't worry about that. But I thought, what a cracking title. So, you know, a part of me is like, you can do this. A part of me is like, I don't know if I can do this.

But it's certainly been fun to go back to the adult fiction to see if I can give it a crack. So another J-fic coming out in next April, My Pet Croc. So that was, like, honestly, I love Riley, but this was, there was mad. Like I felt like Riley was a labour of love where I felt like my pet croc, there was just magic when I was writing it. You know, I just kept idea after idea after idea. And Pip Harry was my editor and she was just superb. And so that book had, there was magic in that creativity.

Like I don't know what they're going to think when they read it. I'm not saying it's a magical book to read, but it was certainly a magical book to write. And so I'm having fun just playing around in the adult space. So, yeah, I don't know. Let's see what happens. I mean you never know with writing whether it's going to pan out or not. But I always think there's no wasted words and you just keep writing whether things get published or not.

It always makes you better each time you write something. And I think having those little wins where something is published and it's amongst some great authors is sort of like, oh, yes, I can do this. Yeah, of course, and you can't do it all the time. That's crazy. Some things are going to hit the mark, some things aren't, and you just have to be, you know, this is what we signed up for, this is what we need to do. So we need to take all sides of it.

You know, not all sides of it are pretty and positive, but, you know, that's what makes it so rewarding when you do get something on the shelves.

And with Riley, are there any more events or anything happening to promote? I am hitting up a lot of the bookstores. I love being able to make friends with the booksellers and everyone has just been so wonderful. But I think, you know, a lot of the bookshops I've been into have said, oh, we never get authors coming here. So they were really quite excited to go in and sign books and have a chat and take a picture. So I'm going to keep doing that.

I'm a book launch out. Book launchers do give me anxiety, I've got to say, because I always have this nightmare that no one's going to turn up and just going to be mean. I know that feeling. I had for Easy Peasy I was very concerned there would be no one there, but it was a good turnout. But I just can't help myself because I love hanging out with people. But I remember when I was at Glee Books, everyone always comes late, right?

And the parking at Glee is a bit challenging. So I remember it was about five to two and I hadn't realized the time because I was, you know, faffing around doing some stuff. And my daughter comes up to me, God lover. She goes, mum, I think your worst nightmare is coming true. Nobody's here. I looked around and I was like, oh my God, but everyone's downstairs, you know, just about. And I was like, oh my God, she's right.

Thanks thanks daughter for that nice encouragement and then all of a sudden people just came up the stairs I'm like oh thank god so that was a moment and then I did it again in Melbourne and I'm like what am I doing to myself it is an interesting thing why do we do this to ourselves we torture ourselves but you don't want to not celebrate the book and the people behind it like I've always wanted to work with Jules as an illustrator so that was so cool that we came together

in Sydney and our editor Kim Astle was there and James was there from Larrikin House of course and you know then all these beautiful people just came out and you know took part of their day out to see you and then I saw old school friends who'd come I had amazing who turned up you know all these people who you know you've connected with in your world in your life you know show up and support you and I looked out you know to this beautiful crowd in Sydney and I'm like

oh, there's an old school friend. These are all these amazing authors that I've known for the last six or seven years. Oh, there's an ex-student. You know, my mum and my kids and my partner was just, yeah, it was really special when you could stop for a moment and look out and go, wow, this is pretty special. It is a unique experience, a book launch, and it can feel really lovely when you're at the end of it. Once everyone turns up, you're like, okay, at least people are here.

Now I've just got to entertain them. I don't think you have a problem with that. Now, I just wanted to ask you, just for our listeners, do you have a tip to share for those aspiring writers out there?

Yeah, I think I'll put on my publishing brain now more than my writer brain because I feel too new in writing to give any advice. But I think on the publishing brain of what we're looking for, I think just when you submit work, just make sure it's the best work that you can submit. I'm not saying it needs to be publishable. That's why we have editors.

But just make it the best work you can. You know, I'm reading manuscripts currently and there are, you know, and you just think it just needed another edit or I'm not understanding the story or the writing's not quite right. And the competition is so high. And there was a point with Larrikin House maybe back in the day that we would have the time to work with authors and go, this is a great idea. Here, let's work on the writing and developing this and developing that.

And we used to have time to do that, which, you know, is quite special. But as things, you know, the publishing company gets bigger, your time for that kind of stuff gets less. And so we just need really good stories that resonate with the publishing company that are going to engage kids that are at a point of as polished as you can possibly get it. You've had someone read it. The story makes sense. There's a hook in the beginning. You know, we're looking for all of those things.

And I think, and I'm just going to go on my, you know, soapbox for a moment. There are still so many women represented in kids' stories in such a stereotypical way, particularly mums. Mums are angry. Mums are hanging out the washing. Mums are, you know, doing all these things. And I think, of course, we cook dinner, Kai. We all have to eat.

But that's sort of all we do in picture books. And when these things are distilled, mum's cooking dinner, it kind of distills our experience into that's all we do. So I think we just need to do better for our kids and show them. And I want to say this for all people, you know, obviously we've got beautifully diverse books coming out, but there just seems to be an overwhelming number of women, particularly mums, stuck in these stereotypical roles.

The mum isn't a main character. It's mums in the background cooking dinner, doing the ironing. And I'm just like, we need to do better for our kids. Yeah. So it's like. Really just think about the time that we're riding in. Think about what we want to teach our kids or what we want our kids to take from these stories, what we want to represent to them, how we want them to grow up.

And I think this is such a great time, I think, in some ways of being a woman because there is so much change happening. We've labelled toxic and positive masculinity. We're not ashamed to be feminists. Our voices are louder than they've ever been. There's also, you know, obviously the really dark side to that when, you know, two women a week in Australia, let alone are getting murdered by a man. But this is why, you know, I feel like our voices need to be heard now. We're demanding to be safe.

You know, we're demanding that people stand up for women. We're demanding that, you know, it's not okay for that toxic man to tell jokes and everybody laughed at it, you know.

And so I think we need to write stories that support that narrative so we can build a generation of young men who are going to be different. And I think that's... I must admit, I'm watching the news every night going, how?

Yeah. Because we, I think, like I just have raised two sons to adulthood and I think I've instilled some good values in them and I'm assuming that that's happening everywhere where because the women that are raising those boys are the same as me, yet we're still seeing the violence. And I'm like, in this day and age, how is this still happening? But you're definitely right that we need to be showing those good examples from a young age and changing that culture.

Desculinity of all of those things. And we need to be doing that. And age appropriately, you know. But I was talking to my son the other day. He was telling me a story. And I said, you know, you can't encourage your friend to do that or say that, you know, if you sit there as a bystander or you sit there and laugh, you're actually encouraging that behavior.

Even as a young, I don't want to say a young man, but, you know, a boy merging into a teenager, you know, it's important to have those really open conversations and say, you have to be the person that says that's not cool. Yeah. It's hard. It's really hard to do that, but you need to be that person. There is peer pressure as well just to fit in and it's our natural instinct to want to be part of the group but then, yeah, if you're seeing something that is not right,

you have to be brave enough to go, hey, that's not cool. And hopefully everyone else will do the same. Yeah. And, of course, I'm not expecting him to always do that at 12, but I'm excited to think about that, you know, and just put those thoughts into his brain. So when he does have the confidence, you know, as he grows into a young man that he'll be able to, you know, recall that hopefully.

See, I think writing children's books is so important. And, yes, of course, you know, I want to make kids laugh and I want to engage them.

And that's what Riley does. it's a silly and you can just read it as a silly story where bad things happen to the character and it's wacky and it's slapstick and it's funny but you can also read it at the level of she's really resilient she has some really supportive friends she has a great relationship with her dad who's trying to save the world so there's all these other elements to it if you want to you know pick up on that of that resilience and optimism and I think you

know for me those two qualities are just so important for all of us to have you know that naive optimism if you like because what is life without being ridiculously optimistic and that ability to just go yeah i've been knocked down but okay let's get back up again amazing well thank you so much for joining me dunny it's been a pleasure to chat as always you're in brisbane soon at a few events is there anything else people can keep an eye out for? Look, always.

For instance, that we are going to as publishers and booksellers. Then there's the Queen Brisbane Conference. I'm not sure when this podcast is coming out, so that might already be done and got. I think it may have already occurred by the time I get this one out. And end of year stuff on the top of my head, wherever there is something, we'll make sure that we're there. But, yeah, the calendar's pretty full, really. But we're just trying to get through.

But a lot of things going on in the publishing world, Like I said, also trying to give some new things a crack in the writing world, as well as all the other things. So, like I said, it's a balance, but choosing your heart. Okay, business. Choose your heart. That's advice from Denny V. Thank you so much for joining me.

It's been a very interesting chat. We've gone on many tangents, which I love. Hi, Kai. It's Maura Pirlo, wishing you and Totally Lit a very happy fifth birthday. It's so heartening to see your podcast grow from strength to strength. I know that's not easy to do in a crowded digital world, let alone while balancing other commitments. So well done. Really looking forward to seeing what the future brings. Happy birthday. Totally lit. Congratulations, Kai. What an amazing milestone.

I'm so grateful to be here to celebrate this with you. All the best. We're going to party. Love Kristen Willis. Tondo Creative. Mwah, mwah, mwah. Steve Minon here. just a quick message to say happy birthday totally lit you're totally it, Congrats, Totally Lit, on five years of supporting Australian readers and writers. This is Ashley Collagen-Blunt, and I loved speaking to you about my writing. I know how much work it is to put together a podcast and to keep it going for five years.

So great job. We all appreciate it. Thank you for connecting readers with great books and for letting the writers share their inspiration and passion. Keep up the great work. Here's to the next five years. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, Totally Lit. Happy birthday to you. Keep going. Great job. Hi, Kai and the team at Totally Lit. Five years. Where has that time gone? I'm going to sing you a very special song to celebrate five years of being an

amazing Australian podcast who celebrates Aussie authors. You ready? Happy long life to you. Happy long life to you. Happy long life, dear Totally Lit Podcast. Happy long life to you.

Congratulations and I can't wait to be singing you another song in another five years time for your 10-year anniversary what an achievement you should be so super proud of yourself and I'm so so so so so so proud that I was one of the very original interviews that's always been just such a special thing that I hold in my heart and I appreciate you. And thank you for supporting me. And have a great birthday. Hi, this is Lara Kane-Grey, author of The Grown-Up's Guide to Picture Books.

Happy birthday, totally. I can't believe it's been five years already. Kai, congratulations on everything you've achieved and all your wonderful, engaged, informative interviews. Here's to many more years. Happy birthday. Hello to my gorgeous friend, Kai Garvey, the beautiful and talented creator of Totally Lit Podcast, a podcast that is close to my heart. This is Jess Galatola, picture book author, fellow EK sister, and longtime supporter and lover and listener of Totally Lit Podcast.

Kai, I wanted to congratulate you on five years of a wonderful podcast that gives back to creatives everywhere and gets the whole Kid Lick community on board. I absolutely adored my time on your episode where we broke down some of the fun at Sia and I'm looking forward to being on a podcast with you in the future but I actually just love listening to all the guests you have on. It's the best. So happy birthday and congratulations on a massive achievement.

Five years is huge. Well done, Totally Lit. Hi, Kai. It's Amanda from Not Quite Right. On behalf of myself and Ed, I just wanted to say a huge happy birthday to Totally Lit and congratulations to you on making it to five years because I know what a labor of love it is. Happy five years to Totally Lit and Kai. Kai, I'm really grateful for your generosity and having me on the show a couple of years ago. I really appreciate everything you do and here's to the next five years.

Happy fifth birthday, Totally Lit. What a wonderful landmark to celebrate, Kai. It was a privilege to be one of your earliest guests back in May 2020. Tina Raffa Mulligan here, wishing you many more insightful literary conversations as Totally Lit continues to go from strength to strength. Hi, Kai and Totally Lit audience. What an amazing job you've done. Look at what you built.

Five years of your podcast, the Queensland Writers' Centre, and its members are really proud to be associated with Totally Lit and this amazing five-year achievement. Well done to you. Happy fifth birthday, Totally Lit. This is Jennifer Horne, illustrator, author, and honoured to have been a guest back in the podcast's baby years. I'd never been on a podcast before.

Thank you, Kai, for taking a chance on us, running this space where book creatives can share and be inspired and making us all sound like cool jazz cats with that intro music. What else will be Totally Lit? the birthday candles happy birthday. Music.

Totally lit is an independent podcast you can help support us to continue to chat with wonderful australian creatives by leaving a review on itunes or sharing our socials with your friends you can also make a contribution at www.buymeacoffee.com backslash totally lit this will also help with equipment and podcasting platform fees i love to interact with our listeners so feel free to say hello either by email or social media.

You can email me at totallylitpodcast.gmail.com or you can find me on Facebook, Insta, LinkedIn and Twitter, sometimes TikTok when I'm brave. Come and join the Totally Lit Writing Community on Facebook. It's a space to continue the conversation and share your writing successes, events, launches and latest projects. Jump into the group and say hello. Thank you for listening to Totally Lit and don't forget to go out into the world to read, write, create, ignite. We'll see you next time. Music.