LAFC (kinda?) hang with Chelsea! Inter Miami dissapoint, Sounders' near comeback & more | MLS Update

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Welcome to the Total Soccer Show. My name is Joe Lowry. No British accent, so I'm not Ryan Bailey. No long, eloquent introduction, so I'm not Taylor Rockwell. Graham never does the intro, so I'm not Graham. I am Joe Lowry, and today... I am joined by a man who will be at Bar Trivia 30 years from now, anticipating the long-awaited question of who scored the first Club World Cup goal of any team in MLS history. And I'll answer triumphantly, Christian.

Rolled on. It is Jeff Reuter. Jeff, how are you? I'm doing great. And I'm appreciating the kind of workman-like introduction that you gave, too. There's no... hands up in the air in jubilation. There's no throw of the voice. This is like a working man, fullback, hard-nosed midfielder just here to put in a shift. And Joe, that's why we all love you. So thanks for keeping me around. It's great. We're thrilled to have you, Jeff. And that's not just...

because no one else could show up today. We really are thrilled to have you. I'd like to think of myself as sort of the Christian Roldan of this show. That's grim. It's not me. Let's move on swiftly from all of that. Before we get to today's show and the real meat of it, where we're going to talk about the three MLS teams in their opening. We'll be right back.

Patreon.com slash Total Soccer Show. You can come hang out with us. Bonus stuff over there. You can hop in our Discord where I've heard all the cool kids are hanging out. And I know that's true, Jeff, or it will be once listener comes and hangs out with us because you're in the Discord. And if you want to hang out and chat with Jeff and me, if you like. Go check out patreon.com slash totalsoccershow. Jeff, let's get to the meat of today's episode.

Which is your trip to Seattle. No, this is not quite the meet, but we are going to talk about Jeff's trip to Seattle. I've got my slideshow ready to go. Good. Please click through. I want to see every picture, every beach picture. I'm assuming you saw Wales, all that good stuff. Jeff, you were in Seattle. for the Seattle Sounders 2-1 loss to Botafogo in their opener of the Club World Cup group stage.

I'm curious. I've never been to a Club World Cup game before because this tournament in its current format has literally never existed. What was the experience like? Did it feel like going to a normal MLS game in Seattle? What was this like for you? Well, I would say it didn't feel like a normal sort of domestically matchup of any kind, USL, NWSL, anything, because I think that...

You sort of take for granted a nation this large, like the concept of away travel. Like it's always a bit of a novelty, right? Where you'll see, you know, especially if it's traveling more than one state border, right? Like it's one thing when the timbers come to lumen.

field right because that is going to be um a rivalry game there's history with that there's there's the regional you know whatever with seattle and portland okay so that's one thing but if you have minnesota united sending fans or fans of minnesota united go you're getting a couple dozen

maybe right and so it's it's cool you'll see it on the apple broadcast and they'll hold up and they'll be like oh and look at these brave souls who are ready for the three zero defeat or whatever right like they'll they'll have their own moment but you know sunday morning Game is on a Sunday evening, right? Sunday morning, I go to the market. I'm only human. I take my coffee there. I walk through. I smoke fish. I sample the salmon. Yeah, exactly. I'm only mortal, right? And...

I saw one vendor with Sounders gear. His name is Hugh. He sells Saffron. And he was very excited. He said that he was not going to the game that night because of work. And he only had recently bought tickets for Thursday when the prices dropped. And he had been on. the fence about going nice a man of the people right like okay that's all of us but you look around and the number of bodafogo jerseys and shirts and hats at this market

was like more than the in-stadium away support. And again, this is no slight. This is a reality of how large the country plus Canada. But wow, they sent a lot of fans. There was a ton of support for Botafogo around the city. And you could look and River Plate was playing at Lumen Field in the later days. And there was a lot of River Plate around the city as well. And so, you know, there is something that...

You go through the lead-up of covering this tournament, and all of us at The Athletic are as guilty of this as anyone, and you're just like, okay, who's going to watch this? Who is this for? This seems like a bit of a forced enterprise.

I'm not really sure why we're covering this with the seriousness. But then you look at how much this means to so many people. And it's just like, okay, maybe there is... some version i don't think it's in its current calibration i don't think it's a 32 team tournament that you just kind of tell countries they have to host and you put it in the biggest venues that aren't going to be realistic draws i don't think that that's the solution so there's a lot to tinker with here

But I do think that in theory, fans of South American teams want to see how they would fare against North American teams, especially European teams. North American teams want to see. You know what the balance is? I think that there is this curiosity. It's the sort of thing that we talk about, right? Like at, you know, just at games and the stands at halftime, whatever is like, okay, so how would, you know, how many MLS teams would maybe avoid relegation?

Right. From the Premier League or would anyone win the championship? Stuff like that. Like it is a way to see that. And it is also. at times, an entertaining way to see that. So that was cool. That was probably my biggest takeaway, was it actually seems like fans of Botafogo and River Plate in particular were very excited about the concept of this, and with Boca Juniors, like we saw last night as well. You know, there's appetite for it.

And even another MLS game that had an MLS team playing effectively in their home market, that Miami Al-Ali game, which we'll get to later, it seemed like a big chunk of that crowd. And Henry Bushnell had a post on social media about this.

It seemed like a big part of that crowd was there for Al Ali and was not there for Lionel Messi. And the color shading between the lighter red of Al Ali and the pink of Miami, not all that drastic, but it sure looked like there was red and a lot of it in that crowd. It's a great shout.

Jeff, the thing that I can most closely equate this to, and I'm guessing most listeners have been to more soccer games than me, which I know seems like a weird thing to say for the host of a soccer podcast, but usually I'm watching games from my couch. The thing that this reminds me of most is MLS Cup. Right. And I've been in Seattle for MLS Cup against Toronto FC and fans travel for MLS Cup or in Portland when NYC FC fans traveled in droves for MLS Cup. You do get that kind of stuff.

but it is usually only for that game, right? For the most important game of the season, not for what is effectively the least important game of a Club World Cup tournament, right? The first one is the least important one. So I think that's a great take. I am curious on your part, Jeff.

From your experience, because from my couch, watching the games in this tournament, I've been actually... pleasantly impressed by the crowds. And maybe that's because we heard so much drama about the ticketing stuff that is well warranted, by the way, without FIFA approach pricing those. The crowd in Seattle for this 2-1 loss to Botafogo looked legit. I mean, what was that like? What was the atmosphere like inside the stadium?

Yeah, they announced 30,000. And I think, you know, speaking with local writers up in the press box there, the assumption is that's turnstile, you know, because I think that if you're going to go purely off tickets disseminated, like there would be more. Right. So so it.

Attendance might actually be an accurate snapshot for this tournament, which is going to be really useful because I don't think that we've seen a lot of those bogey games yet. They were working overtime, handing out pretty much buy one, get four free tickets for 20 bucks to college kids. In Miami. And they weren't doing any of that sort of like...

you know, make up for lost time and something that's make this thing affordable work in Seattle that I could see. Yes, there were with fans and moving them out of certain sections that wouldn't be in the broadcast view. But I was and partial refunds silently being issued for fans.

We bought like on day one. But beyond that, I don't think that there was really that same sort of like, okay, let's go to the colleges. Let's go to the local, you know, adult soccer leagues and hand them groups of tickets or anything like that. So everyone who was there. Um...

It looked like they had a clear allegiance. Maybe that's an important thing. And so then when Seattle opens the game and is holding its own, and then when Seattle, after Roldan's goal and for the final 15 minutes putting on ample pressure throughout, you could... really feel.

that sort of shift whereas when Botafogo was in control it was still more of that the home team isn't doing well and it's a little eerie in here and yes there's a pocket of fans who are cheering uh quite loudly but it is it is more by the silence around it right so there was still a good atmosphere for it it was a

Really good game, to be fair. And I think that that's the other thing that's kind of my biggest takeaway is I was very impressed because coming into this tournament, the assumption was that the Seattle Sounders were going to be the team that would struggle the most because they were the one that had the fewest sort of game break.

heartbreaking factors at this point. They didn't have a Denny Buonga that could play against pretty much any defense in the world and still have his opportunities, right? Whether or not he makes them is one thing. That's always his thing with Denny Buonga, but at the same point, he'll get his looks, right? And with Miami, of course.

You've got Messi and a player who very clearly can still thwart defenses on a daily basis. Seattle didn't have either of those things, and yet I thought that they looked very composed. I thought that the midfield partnership of Obed Vargas and Christian Roldan...

That thing plays really, really well. I still think that there's a version of Seattle that like maybe in like this is a good lesson that like Joe Paolo might still have a role to play for 15 minutes here. They're just a fortify. Right. Like I still don't really. see what Ryan Kent offered at left wing and it was very interesting to watch in person the Seattle Sounders because I'd always kind of had this thing that

One of them, if Ferreira is going to be on the right, he's going to want his touches. He's going to be on the ball. You need someone who's more comfortable off the ball on the left. This is where like your Schaffelbergs and your Fafa Picos, whatever, become cult heroes, you know, among the data hive because they do. So much to open up space. Right. And so my thought was that you need.

more of that on the left. And it wasn't until Paul Rothrock came in in the 71st minute that things really started escalating for Seattle. So I'm only more fervent that Ryan Kent is kind of like, in NBA terms, it's always like your second point guard. You want him to be probably one of your five best players.

team because he still needs to run the offense for parts of it while your main guy is getting a breather. I think sort of same sort of thing. It doesn't matter if he's one of your five best forwards. I don't think he works in combination very well with Rusnak and Ferreira. And so I think that once Rothrock came on, you were able.

to see that all the players by the way were like very vocal like i hope the grass stays they were very happy about the quality of the grass on the field at lumen it had been out for about a week they had laid it i think the previous weekend and so it had time to settle in there weren't obvious

seams and stitching like you saw at Mercedes-Benz in Atlanta for the LAFC-Chelsea game. I might be the only person in the world who called that the LAFC-Chelsea game and not vice versa. No, I'm right here with you, Jeff. Don't worry. I mean, I think you're... I think you're right to be impressed with Seattle. That was my big takeaway from this game was that the Seattle Sounders are very good. This is not new information, but I do think the rest of the league watched this game and thought, yep.

All right, we know what we have to deal with when it comes to Seattle at this point. Now, I think there's a tendency to look at Botafogo as the team that won Copa Libertadores, and they did. That's how they get to this competition. And it's a tendency to look at them as, oh, they're the shining stars of Brazil. That's not the case anymore. They're currently eighth in the league. Flamengo are very much out in front in Brazil at the moment. This is a good but not great Brazilian top flight team.

in some senses that's the version of the Sounders that we caught, even though I am very high on them out of this game, and I think this is a statement of how impressed I was. I did sort of wonder... What we would have seen from Seattle if they'd had Jordan Morris healthy. Or what we would have seen from Seattle if they'd had Yaimar healthy at the back. Because both of Botafogo's goals in the first half of this game come off of aerial balls into the box. And I don't think you get the same...

aerial ability from Kim Kihi, as you do from Yanmar Gomez-Andrade in the back line for Brian Smetzer. No, not at 35. No, certainly not, right? And Yanmar's no spring chicken either. But still, I think Seattle... left something on the table in this game, which is actually super impressive. And I think everybody's looking at this as, wow, this Seattle team was kind of in this game rather than...

Oh, what a missed opportunity. And that's still how I'm looking at it. I think instead it is a credit to Seattle that that thought even kind of enters my mind. They couldn't dig themselves out of that two goal hole they found themselves in after 44 minutes. But they made a legit push. And even with the game state wind, sort of the proverbial game state wind at their backs in this game, down two goals.

Really nothing to lose for Seattle, right? I mean, they're almost certainly going to get blitzed in the next two games against Atleti and PSG. This was the game. If they were going to win this game, this was it, right? So... They don't really have anything to lose. They're not making a big goal differential play, most likely, in this group. But who knows? We'll see. But really, this was a moment where you just go for it.

And Seattle kind of went for it. They had chances in the second half. They were very much back in this game. Roldan scores that kind of weird dinky goal that gets them within one. And there's still something left for them in this match. Even before the game state shifted.

In the first, I don't know, 20 minutes or so of this game before Botafogo find their opener, I thought Seattle hung. I thought Seattle were very much in this game where you look at the stats in the first half. Botafogo have five shots inside the box. Two of those turn into goals. Seattle do have three shots, right? This was them, three shots inside the 18, excuse me. This was them finding real looks, at times controlling the game. They had more possession in the first half.

There was a lot to like about what Seattle threw in this match. Jeff, being there in the stadium, I'm curious for you.

Were there any players that really stood? You talked about the midfield kind of playing, right, between Obed Vargas and Christian Roldan. I thought Roldan wasn't quite at his best from minute one, but very much rounded into this game. Second half especially, yeah.

Was there anybody else who popped from Seattle in this game, or was it just taking in the wonders of Brian Schmetzer's tactical formula? Yeah, I think it's funny because the first 20 minutes, I was looking back at my notes from the game, and it's just like, fifth minute, Obed Vargas. takes ball off opponent, plays it up channel perfectly to Ferreira, who fires it over the bar.

Like Obed Vargas uses spin move to take ball off of Brazilian midfielder's foot, dribbles it forward himself, and then tries to make a pass that's intercepted in the box. Obed Vargas, it's just like he was everywhere. And I think that we've been talking about him coming into the tournament. as maybe, along with David Martinez, the MLS young players.

Especially outside of Miami, right? Because that's a more heavily scouted contingent, I would say, of young South American players. But like, Obed Vargas and to a lesser extent, David Martinez were the ones where it's like, okay, some teams might actually see them as a tournament and be like, oh, we might need to like up our scouting quota.

on MLS because this guy is, you know, he has the sauce. And he really did. He came with it. He had a lot of energy. He was really up for the challenge. He had 100 touches in the game, one of just two players in either team who got that along with Roldan, of course. So he really impressed me.

I've been saying for about a year and a half now that I'm worried about Nuhu as a defender in a back four at left back. And the unspoken part, yes, Kim Kihee got skied for both. Nuhu Tolo was pretty directly at fault for the chances created. that led to both of those goals. And that's...

Uh, I, I don't know if Reed Baker Whiting is going to be the answer. I frankly think that he has a little bit more of like defensive responsibility than knew who at this stage of his career, but knew who got found out in a really big way. The other one that really impressed me though, Jackson Reagan doing some just. quiet Chad Marshall like stuff. Um,

Just really well positioned to stop a ball in the box or to poke it clear before it gets to the box. Really measured with his decisions of when to recirculate versus when to advance the ball. that Reagan and then Paul Rothrock off the bench, you know, that really impressed. I will say, though, you know, some credit to you. Pedro de la Vega's end product left a lot to be desired.

You can see it off the bench. Like, look, he's eight for eight with his passing in 19 minutes, which is really all you can do. But his shots, like he just, I think that usually when you see a player who comes in on a fee like his. who has a role as free and trusting of your instincts as it is often, you want to see a player who rewards that with just that sort of like clever decision and not doing the thing that I think I would do.

As I'm watching it play in real time, because I would like to think a playmaker thinks a bit quicker than I do. Right. And that's humility on my part. But I think that you look and both times it's just like. Ball falls right to him. He's in a dangerous area. You just need to pass it to the corners of the net, and instead he just kind of shanks it, and it bounces a couple times right to the goalkeeper.

Right. And it's just like that is the difference between us saying the Sounders fought valiantly and still lost and the Sounders fought valiantly and reclaimed a point. It is Pedro De La Vega's end service. It is new who's defending. It is simple mistakes, which is a very good place for Seattle to be at this point. I think that they'll feel very good about where they're at at the midpoint of their season.

And then you get past this tournament, you get guys healthy. Jordan Morris over Danny Mussovsky I think will help a lot. It also opens up combinations if you want to get Ferreira as more of a deep-lying forward. And then you can have Morris playing off the left or the right wing. You can figure out the combinations again at that point. But yeah, it just ultimately that that lack of final product and that lack of decisiveness is ultimately what really held them back here.

Yeah, it was on the table for Seattle in this game. Pedro De La Vega, I think about as the Tasmanian devil from Looney Tunes, specifically that one, not just any Tasmanian devil, where he comes in, causes some chaos. A lot of the chaos works in his favor, right? And then just never...

ever delivers that final blow on Bugs Bunny. Like, sorry, it just isn't going to happen. That's the Pedro De La Vega experience. And it is both a testament to Craig Weibel's roster build that this team is as good as they are without Pedro De La Vega and a bit of a damnation of that decision to sign De La Vega.

I'm legitimately curious what popped about De La Vega in Argentina because I watched a bunch of his tape and it just didn't hit for me. But that had to have been something. And you can see some of the gifts that he has. But the end product just has not come. Jeff, let's tie a bow. on this experience. You're back from Seattle now, so we'll move ourselves on. Before we get to the rest of the Club World Cup chat, we're going to take a break. Stay with us.

The total soccer show and soccer coverage leading up to the FIFA World Cup on The Athletic is brought to you by the ActiveCash Visa Credit Card from Wells Fargo.

Today, we have an exclusive sneak peek at an interview with current PSV and US Men's National Team attacking midfielder Malik Tillman, whom Paul Tenorio spoke with as part of our My Game In My Words series. Disclaimer, whoever was stacking dishes in the background of this interview was...

very focused on getting those dishes stacked. When you close your eyes and you think about the first time you got called up to the Bayern first team, what do you remember of that moment when they told you? And then what do you remember of that first training session? I don't know the year, but I was still in under 19 or 17. And then, yeah, we are training with the youth team. And then after training, the coach told me, yeah, tomorrow you have the pros.

Were you nervous when you put the shirt on the first time to walk out to training? What was going through your mind? Yes. I mean, normally you don't really... I mean, the new academy is far from everyone else. Yeah, you never really see the first team and then obviously being there, being in one changing room with them, saying hello to them. Yes, it's just a crazy feeling. It's like obviously you're nervous, but it's...

I mean, you also want to be there, so it's kind of an achievement, but it's obviously not the end yet. So it's been a good feeling, yeah. When you talk about the fact of going there and training, working on things like your shot, finishing in these drills.

who was there someone that during training you're watching what they were doing or you that you were like holy like this is another level when you saw them go through a drill like that it's anyone literally i mean by and everyone is you can learn from everyone You have Lewandowski, you have Gnabry, you have Ira Zane, Jamal Muziala. You have a lot of players you can run from. And then you just pick what you want from them.

That was Malik Tillman discussing breaking through to the Bayern Munich first team and the wealth of experience that comes with it. And he was speaking to The Athletic as part of our My Game In My Words series. Soccer coverage leading up to the FIFA World Cup on The Athletic is brought to you by the... cash Visa credit card from Wells Fargo.

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know we're dying to see them.

Welcome back to the Total Soccer Show. We have talked about the Seattle Sounders 2-1 loss to Botafogo. Let's move ourselves across the country to a game that Club Leon were supposed to be playing, much to the chagrin of their fans who were still there. Some of them at Mercedes-Benz yesterday. LAFC, who lost 2-0 to Chelsea.

Jeff, this was an experience watching this game. This was like a science experiment for me, which I think is really what the Club World Cup is for folks watching from an MLS perspective. This was LAFC, like the LAFC that we know and love. God bless their hearts, right? Nathan Ordaz. Los Angeles FC, right? Like, yeah, it is Steve Scherundelo's Los Angeles football club. Very much so. Yes. Very much so. Up against a really close to first choice Chelsea squad. I'm curious.

And this is maybe like the US Switzerland test a little bit because I was a little fearful of a... a reprise of another game of that similar scoreline where LAFC embody the U.S.'s bodies and Chelsea end up at Switzerland. What did you expect from this game when you saw the lineup drop with some of those names that we've already mentioned?

Did you expect a really lopsided game? And what were your thoughts when you saw the lineup? Maybe more lopsided than we got, to be fair. Yeah, same here. But at the same point, I think that the scoreline really flatters LAFC here. And I think that it played out much how I would expect there was some indecisiveness. You know, Cole Palmer is still sort of figuring out what he is at this stage of his career and how he fits in an Enzo Maresca system. Right. And that was a story of the back.

half of last year's Premier League season. And I think that that will continue to be closely monitored by Chelsea fans and pundits and everyone throughout this Club World Cup. You know, like, I think it just reinforces that there is a limit. And the limit is you can't beat a Champions League qualifier from the Premier League, I guess. So I need to catch myself immediately before I take this too seriously. But there might be some limitations in the general way that LAFC sets up in 2020.

and how... how comfortable they look in a turtle shell, I guess is maybe a good way to frame it because you look at, you know, they've made some decisions like in the middle of the season, they brought in Frankie Amaya, right. To be that sort of midfielder that can come in off the bench and change it. I don't know what he's really changing. I think.

that that was something that was pretty found out between his time Cincinnati and especially his his second MLS stop with the New York Red Bulls where it was just like okay we don't know if he's going to be that vital progress or we don't know if he's going to be that good water carrier like we're still trying to figure out how to get the best out of Frankie Amaya's skill set at the MLS level and so then you put him into a game like this and it's you're still

looking for answers um i thought denny bawanga did denny bawanga things which is to say get in some dangerous areas take the opportunities he had but at the same point like there was some you know just some sort of funky decisions in the final third uh nathan or does and and

Jeremy Obobese not left with a ton to do. David Martinez looking incredibly frustrated once he came on in the 38th minute. You know, a lot of times was looking like he could be kind of in danger of getting some additional fouling as well. I don't know. I mean.

You know, there's only so much that you can really hope for from Hugo Lloris at this storied stage of his career in goal and Olivia Giroud trying to pull on his shirt is good comedic gold. But yeah, this is generally what I expected. I expected Chelsea to put a...

pretty comfortable win in this group opener. And that's what it was, right? This was comfortable for Chelsea. The difference between these teams was clear. Chelsea, there was a moment in the first half where Cole Palmer gets on the ball. And in the way that LAFC snapped to attention...

And, like, multiple players sprint to close him down made it very clear to me that they'd been warned, right? And these guys are dumb. Like, they know who Cole Palmer is. They know how dangerous he is. But, like, the sheer amount of gravity that he had in that moment against multiple players.

LAFC defenders compared to the gravity that Denny Buonga, like the undisputed superstar of this team, one of the best players in Major League Soccer, the lack of gravity, the lack of impact that he had against Reese James 1v1 was... exactly what you would have expected like this in so many ways this game played down that line of wow yep there's a huge gap here just as we knew at the same time

Even with that gap, I still think LAFC conducted themselves quite well for parts of this game, where defensively, they weren't just overrun with chances in this game. Like, yes, Chelsea created more and better chances. I think this was a fair scoreline at the end of the day.

LAFC's box defending, I was pretty impressed with. The resolute nature of the centerbacks, Aaron Long and Eddie Segura. The fullbacks, Ryan Hollingshead and Sergi Palencia. I was actually very impressed with the fullback play for the most part. Yes, it's Hollingshead who gets beaten in behind by Pedro Neto for the opening goal.

But man, that whole sequence is made by Nicholas Jackson, like holding up the play for a whole beat longer than any striker in MLS can. Extending that play and giving Neto time to set up his run and running behind. And at that point, I think it's over for Ryan Hollingshead. Basically, you're just praying that he.

misses but i was impressed by the the deeper box defending for lafc i was also impressed at times by their setup uh defensively in this game where i'm gonna i'm gonna be nerdy tactically for just a second and give some credit to steve trondolo so chelsea under mareska

set up almost always in a 3-2-5 shape in those established possession sequences, right? In this game, in the first half, it was Rhys James who stayed deeper at right back to join the center backs. You had the double pivot of Caicedo and Lavia, and then you had Cole Palmer, and at first it was Cucurea.

as the two half-space attackers, and then you had Neto on one side and Maduike on the other side, and Nicholas Jackson in the middle. That 3-2-5 shape that I talk about all the time, it is still the most popular possession shape in the game right now. So Chelsea are in that setup, and LAFC are defending in a 4-3-3. So they only have three central midfielders, effectively, against the box midfield for Chelsea. Lavia, Caicedo, Cucurea, and Palmer.

How do you compensate for that? Where do you find the extra number? And the way that LAFC did it at times, yeah, they used some cover shadows from the front three, but they would try to go man-to-man at times. And Igor Jesus would push forward from his number six role to mark either Caicedo or Lavia.

while the other two, Tillman and Delgado, stood deeper on Cucure and Palmer. So now you only have one more body that you have to fill, right? You've got three of four boxes checked. And the way that LAFC did it is most often, they would have the weak side winger drop back.

to go and almost go man-to-man or at least shade towards the last member of that box. And so all of a sudden you're at parity, right? At least in the midfield area. And it wasn't flawless. Chelsea still found their way through a few times and you could still see the hesitancy.

from LAFC to go and close down all the way in midfield because if you close down the midfield, you're leaving space somewhere else. And Chelsea were so effective at using that space somewhere else. But I thought that was like a legitimately clever.

tactical design to the defensive setup. There's a moment in the second half where Chelsea are only up but one at this point in LAFC. I was sort of growing into the feeling of, are they going to get something from this game? Not because they deserved it necessarily, just because it felt like Chelsea didn't put this game to the sword.

Right. Like exactly like a classic example of a team like seeing one zero is good enough for us. Let's just like kind of comfortably ice this game. And then suddenly it's so easy. Like we've seen so many times I'm with you, like up until that 79th minute winner. I consider it like it feels like a winner.

Because that is the moment where, to your point, that you're in the middle of making, and I'll let you get back to it shortly. No, no, it's all good. That is absolutely what the feeling of that second half was for the majority of it. And that's a testament to LAFC as well. It really is. And there's the sequence that I'm thinking about is Igor Jesus steps up again from his number six role to go and mark a member of the double pivot for Chelsea.

And I think it's Caicedo. And he just kind of out-savvies Caicedo and like shifts around and pokes the ball away. And then Chelsea, excuse me, then LAFC are counterattacking. And there were a half dozen, maybe sort of mild half chances on the break. For LAFC throughout this game, there were some moments of them controlling the ball. I just enjoyed the novelty that this game provided. Really, again, this felt very science experiment-y. You could still see.

to loop all the way back around. You could still see the obvious differences, like the differences that everybody knew, including Don Garber, when he talked about the chances of his teams in this tournament against the best in South America and the best from Europe.

To me, Jeff, those differences manifested in a couple of different ways. One was the technical level. And this is the most obvious one. Like, this is the one that I would have thought about. Chelsea just have so many more dudes that can drive 1v1. than LAFC. Like if LAFC didn't have the ball on Denny Bawanga's foot and then later on didn't have it on Bawanga's foot or David Martinez's foot, they were not attacking.

Like they were not a threat to beat you whatsoever. And even Buonga was so clearly the worst of the two players in his matchup with Rhys James or with Malagusto later on. So the technical ability to me is one of those things. Guys who can drive 1v1, who can pass to the correct foot. The simple stuff, really, that makes great players great. The other thing, and this is something that I didn't expect to pop as much as it did, and I'm curious if you thought about this at all.

The defensive quality and commitment and effort from every player, including Cole Palmer. Like, Cole Palmer pressed way more than Denny Bawanga did in this game. Like, Denny Bawanga... was taking some plays off, tracking back into the defensive structure. Not a lot, not messy levels of taking plays off. But Chelsea were committed across the board. Like, every player from that lineup was there to defend, and they were good at it. Like, that, for me...

It was a huge contrast to see the difference in the average Chelsea player in that squad versus the average MLS player, not with all the technical skill-based stuff, but with the effort and athleticism stuff too. I didn't expect, Jeff, for that to pop as much as it did to me.

It popped for me as well, even in the Seattle Botafogo game. It was another part that I think was actually maybe the most impressive. Yes, Botafogo is physical. Yes, Botafogo will win headers. Okay, sure. That's fine. We've seen teams do that. I think directly in line with what... you're saying here about like cole palmer even puts in defensive effort what's this about i think what i'm real what you can also surmise from this is that like

it is costly to afford versatile, dedicated players, right? And I think that when I say that, I don't just mean that MLS DPs are brought in to be luxury pieces and they don't want to defend, right? Like in some cases, that's just absolute hogwash, right? just not the reality. You see it plenty of times where teams are able to find a guy who is involved in all phases.

It's the eighth guy on your roster, the ninth, the tenth, the eleventh. It's simple things like Botafogo. Anytime that they would regain possession, especially in the first half as they were trying to establish their dominance over the Sounders, what they would do is they would collect the ball.

And what you see on a counterattack in MLS is very often five players, up to five or six players will be involved in it in its main phase, right? In its first phase. And so you might have, obviously you might have one or two, depending on where players are, right? If you're too much in your shell, you only have so much freedom to do this. That's fine.

But usually you'll see the on-ball operator, you'll see two runners on either side, and you might see two people offering that sort of like safety valve right beneath them where you can pass it back, you can join the attack, and then we'll still try to do some like five-a-side stuff, right? And what you see with Botafogo is... not just the forward line.

Advancing at breakneck pace, not just the midfield trying to fortify them, but the defense is so quick to say this is our line and let's advance it and let's bring our defensive line of engagement into our attacking half so that if we turn the ball.

over we've got a really staunch offside trap but we also do have that option to recirculate win the ball back and still have attacking fortification and intentionality and i think that because of the squad limits that mls puts on its clubs It's very difficult to be able to afford 11 players who can do that sort of involved in all phase movement and who are at that level because they're expensive, because they are highly sought after at all levels of the game.

And that is where you start to see the difference in Botafogo versus Seattle and certainly Chelsea versus LAFC, where it's like, hey, we might have our preconceptions of what a Cole Palmer type player should do, but no, there he is, like joining in the pressing schemes. And there he is, like...

Again, it makes luxury players like Denny Bawanka look a little less robust. And that's a criticism I've lobbed against him for over a year talking with you on this podcast and elsewhere. Where it's just like... he's got that trick and it's a fantastic trick, but how much is he doing for the rest of the team and how much does it actually enhance the ability around? And I think you look at someone, you know, like again,

the Botafogo defenders made the attackers on Botafogo look better because they were playing in a way that set them up for success. And it's just a matter of finding that sort of recalibration. And I think that that, that will be one of the major sort of.

The benchmarks I look for moving forward of MLS's advancements in quality is just like when do you get to a point where you actually can afford to have a team of players that can play at that high of a level tactically and also just individually.

And one other way to think about it, I think that's a great point. One other way that I've been thinking about the difference just between the two superstars in this LAFC-Chelsea game relative to their own teams, right? Obviously, Cole Palmer is an infinitely better player than Danny Bawanga, just as Chelsea are.

Obviously a better team than LAFC. I think about it as the difference between Cole Palmer and the next guy up in his spot, whether that's Enzo Fernandez who comes in and plays in the half spaces or Nkunku if he's ever healthy or whoever, right? The difference between Palmer and the next guy.

is not that large, right? And certainly it is much smaller, much smaller than Denny Bawanga to the next most impact attacker who LAFC can bring off their bench, right? That's what we're talking about here. Like the next guy who's not in the starting lineup. And even if you take it from... Palmer to the next most valuable player in that Chelsea team. From Buonga to the next most valuable player in that LAFC team.

Like, relatively speaking, percentage-wise, Buonga is so much more valuable relative to his peers than Cole Palmer is to his peers, right? Yeah, absolutely.

roster building approach, right? That's how MLS rosters are built, where there's three dudes that you can spend as much as you want on. I mean, technically, there's more than that, but the other ones have to be children, effectively. Really, there's three seniors who are taking ownership stakes for five years down the road. It's one or the other.

The Bawangas of MLS are making way more money than anybody else in their squads, more or less. I mean, they're making a lot of money and much more than the people next to them in the locker room. And those guys are... are not incentivized by that structure to have to go out there and earn their spot. Like if there's, there's eight LAFC players earning $5 million close to what Bwonga is earning for LAFC and Bwonga takes a day off of tracking back. Well, there are consequences to that.

If he's the only player making that kind of money in that locker room, and he decides he doesn't want to come and track back, and I don't think it was a cardinal sin of his game in this one against LAFC. Against Chelsea, excuse me. But if he doesn't come back, what, LAFC's just not going to play him?

They can't afford to do that. Literally, from an investment standpoint, that's not a great thing to do. And from an on-field talent standpoint, you're missing out there. So an interesting contrast, I think, between these two teams. I really enjoyed this game, again, for the science aspect of it all. Yeah, Jeff, go ahead. And I will say, too.

Like you saw a lot of that in Miami to put a bow on it, because I actually don't think that there's a ton to say about that game right now. It's funny because it seems so important in the moment, whereas like, wow, these two teams look. like they're trying and that the atmosphere is kind of fun and stuff like that. But now we've in Miami. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. At hard rock. But I think we've seen.

more games play where that's been more, where it's already kind of a forgotten factor. And so now you look at it and it's pretty much just a zero, zero. Right. And it is a missed opportunity for Inter Miami to try to have some sort of like, I know that we're the host and we would not be like a pot one team, so to speak, usually. But here we are and whatever, you know, I mean, like they got a very favorable draw. They are playing. not at home.

You know, like I think it does make a difference that they're playing at essentially a neutral site. They're doing what a lot of MLS teams do to themselves when Miami comes to town, right, where you book a bigger venue so you can sell it out. But then you lose your home field advantage. And all of a sudden it's just like, OK, well, now what? And they they're doing it to them.

It's not their choice. FIFA organized this tournament. Right. But I think it's you could see it. And there was also a sort of you saw more effort from the old guard. the old Barcelona guard, than maybe you saw in other games. But it also led to some very weird trends. Like in the second half of the game, Miami...

smells in the water that there's a match winner to be had, so they're really pushing for it. Messi is doing his operating thing in the center. And Luis Suarez's tendency was to drift off to the left wing. Not to the corner of the box on the left side, in case anyone didn't listen, like watch this game. He was fully in left wing territory to such an extent that when he got the ball.

There was no shot on offer for him. There's no way he could have dribbled to a shooting position. And then once he passed the ball back to his left back to recirculate, because that was the only option to him, he was so far out of space that he couldn't even get involved in the final third.

And that's not why Luis Suarez is on this team. But that's how his effort manifested, right? And so on the one hand, it's like, okay, it's good to see a little bit more of this. There was also just some like really needless stuff with Suarez and Busquets. Like they were laughing at the referee and both of them got yellow cards with him.

like a two minute span because they very clearly were like, you know, you owe us better calls because we're, I don't know, famous in hosting this tournament. Like it was just like kind of that gross side of like entitlement. that sort of played out. So that, that wasn't a good look from them, but yeah, very missed opportunity, I would say for Miami and you know, a very credible.

I mean, I'll play them in the first half anyway. So in theory, you would say they deserved at least one point. And I don't think you can really you can't really argue that like they looked much better. They were pressuring Oscar Ustari with that one mistake that they kept shooting the ball. directly at Oscar Ustari, which is generally the only place he can consistently make saves at this later stage of his career.

So interesting kickoff, good kickoff, but yeah, we'll see how they fare in their next games against Porto and Palmeiras because I think that those will be tougher tests.

Yeah, I've got two big takes on this game, and I want to get your thumbs up or thumbs down on them, Jeff, and then we'll move on. First take, I need to know what you think of this, of the three MLS teams. Inter Miami got the best result. Mathematic. You can't really argue with that. But should also be the most disappointed. Agree? Disagree? Agree.

Fully. Because Seattle's disappointment is earned, right? You've earned the right to be disappointed because you left it out on the field. Miami, it's more like, oh, there's probably more we could have done there. I don't get why they don't play Fafafpico more, man. And I know that this is a tale as old as time since this Miami Messi project kicked off is American soccer writers saying, why don't they play the MLS veteran more? And why do they keep playing this newfangled old Argentine?

that they found. But alas, we are back to it. Fafafpiko is now Julian Gressel. I don't really get it because he adds so much dynamism to them in the final third and just forces teams to not play like they're setting up kind of a resting foot.

all defense where you're not trying to run as much and you're trying to get your positioning right and be as close as you can be did like kind of poke the ball off them that's pretty much how defenders have to play them because they don't have mobility unless faffa pico comes on stretches the game dynamic winning headers all these sorts of things that suddenly unsettles them. It makes so much sense, which means that Javier Mascherano will not start him. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm getting some weird Marcia Rano vibes these days. My other take is that Sergio Busquets can't start for this team anymore if they're optimizing their chances to win games. Agree? Jeff is nodding. I'm going to assume that's an agree. Yeah. It's... It's bad. The guy I think is pretty much done. He still can pass the ball like nobody's business, right? But he cannot move side to side. He cannot move forwards and backwards. And what's worse is that when he's partnered with Fede Redondo...

Miami are just full-on traffic cones in midfield. I was really high on Redondo coming out of Argentina when he signed for Miami. He has not shown it yet. And he's still young, right? He's still 22. the guy has not shown a lot of teeth, at least not when he's already within arm's reach of you, right? I mean, like, it is...

It's tough at times for this Miami team. I don't think that Busquets can start at least in the midfield. For this team, if you want to get him on the field, put him as the center center back. Yeah, you could maybe do something like that because his range of passing is long enough where he can make up for the 20-yard difference or whatever. I think you're right. That's probably the smartest place to put him because right now it looks a lot like Pure Low when he first got to MLS.

was trying. It was like a two month experiment where he was actually trying to do Pirlo stuff and then he didn't jump for that one. corner kick when he was the near post and went right over his head and then it all fell apart. Right. But, you know, I think you could maybe do some of that with Busquets. Look, people have been a little harsher on including myself.

I wrote a whole piece about this a month ago, about Jordi Alba and the defensive deficiencies there. But yeah, it can't go overlooked. The midfield is such an important place for them because they need to have that sort of central channel to get messy, consistent service. You can't constantly be doing that from the flanks. So I understand why they want to have him there. But at the same point, it is going to be very, very difficult.

to see this team defend a well-organized MLS engine room in the playoffs if Sergio Busquets is starting and playing 80 minutes or more every single game, which has been the trend for him since they signed him. Yep.

Yep, and most MLS teams are worse than Al-Ali, who I thought were certainly the better team in this game overall. But yeah, not the strongest of starts to Miami when it certainly felt like there was something more on the table. They were second best in this game by a decent amount. Jeff, let's take one more break. When we come back, I want to tie... a bow on the Club World Cup chat then we'll take a look around the weird wild world of the Major League Soccer regular season stay with us

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Visit betterhelp.com slash randompodcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax. Welcome back to the Total Soccer Show. I am in the process of tying a bow. on this Club World Cup chat, Jeff. Good form, by the way. I haven't really seen a technique like that in a long time. Thank you. Yeah, I try to take the bunny ear around and then I pull it through. It works for me. It doesn't work for everybody. It works for me.

The question I want to ask you, Jeff, to finish this out and sort of works as the pivot into the MLS at large conversation. There's some some Club World Cup teams that aren't here that I think FIFA would like to be. Right. And we were talking about this a bit before we started recording.

That Barcelona's not here because they didn't win the Champions League and weren't ranked highly enough. Tough, right? Tough. There are other Spanish teams that got in ahead of them. That Liverpool aren't here. I'm sure it is an Arsenal. Painful for FIFA. FIFA probably isn't shedding any tears about MLS teams not being in this competition. If you could reformat this and if you could be FIFA and just pick three Inter-Miamis or any three teams in Major League Soccer.

Who do you think would best represent MLS right now? Who are the three teams that you feel most confident about maybe having a better chance to get out of the group? I think Columbus has to be the starting point. And I think that you would say it's kind of a...

an accumulation of things like, yes, they've won trophies. So that does help. But I think it's also stylistically showing where MLS wants to go. It's like the idyllic version of how MLS sees itself, right? Where you can be a place where previously untested coaches can.

comment and put in these like systems that win hearts and minds. And it's kind of a collective mentality instead of being driven by retiring stars and all these things. And I think that you would have wished they would have replaced Cucho Hernandez by now, but maybe Cucho Hernandez doesn't leave until.

the summer if the club world cup's on the horizon and he can kind of cap his tenure at this tournament i like it so i think columbus is the only team that i'm looking at and it's like yes they need to be there um

You know, like, yeah, you probably did need, like, Messi was always going to be involved in this, right? So, like, I... concede that point but like i think that the sounders are a pretty credible representation of mls's last four years and i think that that's how i'd look at ultimately is like who have been the best teams of the 2010 2020s excuse me so far so lafc also right like you know they've been competitive

fronts in that span as well. I mean, if you're going recency bias, you'll go with the Vancouver Whitecaps, right? But I think that they kind of needed a breather after the Champions Cup run. So I guess I would say that they were actually pretty close. And I think that if you just look at the 2020s...

which because again like the the way that they did this is basically look at 2021 through 2024 which is why you have like salzburg and juventus in this tournament because they were the eighth and ninth best performing Coefficient teams outside of the teams that won the Champions League, which is so convoluted and not how anyone thinks of the best teams in the world.

And I'm really sorry. I'm actually like Salzburg, whatever. At least you found someone from outside the five, the big five in Europe. So like, I'm kind of fine with Salzburg being there just for like best of the rest or whatever. But man, what is Juventus doing here? When you think of Juventus over the last like, I don't know, decade pretty much since that Champions League loss against Barcelona when they had that like...

Andre Pirlo again and Arturo Vidal and Paul Pogba midfield. Pretty much since then, it's just been kind of stepping on one rake after another after another and hitting themselves in the head and watching players leave because they're sick of getting hit in the heads with rakes.

it's, you know, it's just not terribly credible. So yeah, there's a lot to figure out with this, but I guess I would say that Columbus is the one team I'm looking at and like, yeah, they should be here just ideally from an MLS perspective. Hey, if Jeff didn't say your team name, go yell at Jeff on social media. I think that's a completely defensible way to think about all of this. Also, Jeff, I don't appreciate you giving FIFA the idea.

to marry their coefficient system with a playoff that takes the highest-rated coefficient teams in the last four years and mixes them with the next best teams who aren't auto-qualified from the past season, they play a pre-Clobberal Cup playoff a la...

LAFC and Club America and then the winners of those most likely the not Juventuses and RB Salzburgs of the world and more likely the Barcelonas and the Liverpools of the world go to the Club World Cup and then we have more Club World Cup games that's excellent work on your part and I didn't like any of it Let's shift our attention, Jeff, shall we, to the regular season. I want to start with a mini.

rant here oh this feels so much safer and cleaner i'm so happy to be back to the mls regular season it's like you just sat down in your comfy chair like everybody's got a comfy chair yeah and you like you slipped on your smoking jacket which i assume also everyone has of course and it's just like

And now I'm going to rant just very, very briefly. I might have done a similar rant back in March. It is so ridiculous that MLS plays through international breaks in tournaments, right? There were 40 players.

Gone from around Major League Soccer this past weekend where they played a full slate of games minus the Club World Cup teams, right? Like this was match day 19 in Major League Soccer, trying to treat it as a normal match day from league channels, Apple TV, the league site, all of that stuff. This was business as usual for MLS teams. And it was not business as usual. Like, so many of the best players from around Major League Soccer were gone.

In just one game, the Minnesota United-San Diego game, which I think was the game I was most looking forward to this weekend. Although the other game that I was most looking forward to has a great contention for this concept as well.

In that San Diego Minnesota United game, Minnesota United missing four starters, including goalkeeper Dane St. Clair. San Diego missing two starters due to international break as well. And Luca De La Torre and I forget who the other one is. It's on the list somewhere.

These games were marred. They were asterisked by the fact that MLS plays through international breaks. And as someone who wants to... CDs games matter like like winning in the regular season does matter teams that finish higher up the standings go and do better in the playoffs whether that's because they're just better teams or whether that's because they actually take the things seriously and I have momentum into the playoffs whatever it is the higher seeds home field advantage all that

stuff it matters like winning regular season games matters yeah it is so difficult to take the regular season seriously when even before you get to the unbalanced schedule of it all which matters for things like the supporter shield and for things like seating and all of that stuff that matters in the playoffs Even before you get to that giant elephant in the room, you're faced with the fact that not all regular season games are created even close to equal.

Because teams are playing with such lopsided rosters in windows like this one. The other game that comes to mind for me is Vancouver Columbus, where, again, these teams are missing. Real players. And it's not always balanced, right? In this game, Vancouver-Columbus. Vancouver lose this match. Just their second loss of the regular season so far. Their first one, by the way, came back in March during an international break to the Chicago Fire where Vancouver was missing four starters.

Last number two for Vancouver comes when they're missing Ali Ahmed, Seb Berhalter, Jaden Nelson, and Brian White, all to international duty. Very important players in this team. Columbus are missing players, too. They're missing good old Arf, Max Arfston, for the U.S. men's national team, and Nicholas Hagen, their backup goalkeeper. They're missing a couple of guys to international duty, but it's one starter to four.

and Columbus win this game 2-1, and Vancouver now see their grasp on the shield start to slip away from them. Like, it could not be more clear to me, Jeff. The MLS does not care about its regular season offering, right? They continue to expand the playoffs. They add Leagues Cup, all these other things that would leave more room to not play in the international breaks.

They have added more and more things to the calendar instead of trying to give their regular season light. And that's fine. They want to make that decision. That's their decision to make. I'm also going to make the decision to think that it's very dumb and you're almost ruining. The biggest set of games that you have that you should be working towards actually building up instead of tearing down. To me, it's ridiculous.

Yeah, the regular season always feels like this thing that they have to keep on a simmer on the stove while they're cooking something much more interesting on the side. And then it's like, oh, yeah, we'll get back. We'll get back to that. We'll get back to the soup. Well, the soup can be the best part of the dish. Sometimes it's the most consistent part. Right. And I think that you look.

Look at what you have with the Minnesota game, the San Diego game, because I did. I watched that one as well while I was at like a Club World Cup event. Whatever, I had it on my phone. We get it. You go to cool events. Probably got a wristband, free food. I'm not jealous. Move on. I paid for my beer, actually. All right, there it is. But there's, yeah, when a team is without its goalkeeper.

And they have decided to build their roster without a backup goalkeeper, which I don't know what that is about for Minnesota United, but they have not held like a true backup goalkeeper. They've pretty much had next pro kids and a like graduated next pro goalkeeper who had never really played much in MLS. one really bad showing against dc last year uh i digress they gave him his mls debut against one of the best teams in the western conference

And unsurprisingly, the first four goals in this game were pretty much all goalkeeper howlers, including a penalty that went like just directly underneath the goalkeeper. Right. And it's not a good look for San Diego that CJ Dos Santos is. involved in two of these howlers, and he is their starting goalkeeper. But I think that we've always known that that's an area that they would maybe want to upgrade over time. But the results just don't feel as credible.

to an extent when you look at it and it's just like, okay, you have someone who's, you know, been playing for the next pro team. He's 23 and he's never talked to any of these defenders before in training. So like, how is this going to go? How is he going to get that sort of coverage?

The San Diego player, I think that you were alluding to, who is missing along with Luka De La Torre was Anibal Godoy, right? And so then, of course, you have a midfield. Yeah, they have Tverskopf, who's looked very good this year. He gets an assist as well. So good for San Diego there.

But, like, it's just, it's a very different sort of matchup. Things look very off-center. Minnesota didn't really have its usual sort of change of approach with Tania Loachey, who's gone with Canada as well, right? And then you just look at some of the other, you know, games, like...

I don't know. It's just it sucks because there's some very genuinely fun matchups. I think that you would look and say like Philadelphia Charlotte is a game that at full strength is pretty telling about where the Easter conference is at outside of Ohio.

florida where we've kind of always assumed that the epicenter of the east will be this year um or certainly since the game started atlanta looked like crap um you've got columbus vancouver which could have been one of the most entertaining games of the year that is just absolutely neutered by uh You know, a lot of this, the Revs, who were unbeaten in nine entering this weekend, lost.

We're going to have to change our group chat name, Jeff. That's a real mistake. We can change it to Nashville is unbeaten in 9 and 11 in all competitions. So there's hope for that group chat yet. Hi, Taylor. Miss you. You know, Portland San Jose usually is a very good game. And like the XG balance is like really good. But like at the same point, it's just I think that the bigger point is that Portland San Jose game maybe is a game.

that on a normal weekend, you say MLS After Dark, let's throw this on, but... So people's minds aren't there because three of your teams are in the Club World Cup. And suddenly, like as of a week ago, MLS has suddenly been like, oh, we should really pump people towards the Club World Cup. We forgot to do that. We should really push people towards that. You've been getting more activations in these markets.

phrase I absolutely hate, activations. You get more, you know, press releases and having your writers kind of reassigned from covering the league to covering this and your pundits are supposed to talk about it on broadcast and all that stuff. So yeah, ultimately your own product seems...

Far less important. And I think it would have been very, very easy for any fan of MLS, but especially fans of Seattle, LAFC, and Inter-Miami to completely check out Major League Soccer this weekend and feel like they didn't miss a thing. And that's not a good thing either. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's so frustrating. Like I want to be a shield truther. I really do. I love that the shield recognizes excellent soccer.

MLS Cup, you can win it as a team that's pretty good but not quite great, and you get hot at the right time. And that's fun too, right? There's a place for that. But when it comes to identifying the best team, I want the Shield to be that. I want to be that.

But all regular season games, like I said before, are just not created equal. The Whitecaps, if they were, if all these games are created equal, the Whitecaps would probably be in the midst of an invincible season right now, right? Where they're more than halfway through their schedule and you're thinking...

This team could make history. And instead, they've got two losses on their schedule. The one over the weekend came with exactly one outfield player over the age of 22 on their bench. Like, this is...

Sometimes MLS is unserious. And I guess we can put a pin in it there because we can rant on this for longer. We can and we will just a little bit longer because I think you're right. Like, I want to be a Shield truther too. Because I think you're right. Like, in theory, this is the best way to determine the best team.

But there's just too many teams in this to do a balanced schedule now. They passed that point, and I think it was 2015 when they had 19 and 20. Pretty much ever since then, since Orlando and New York City, they haven't been able to keep a balanced schedule. And so when more of these things happen... Like it does put more stock in MLS Cup is the more meaningful trophy, because I think if nothing else, it has the better story.

Right. Because right now, what is the story of winning Supporter Shield? Well, we didn't have a lot of internationals. And so when we had to play through the Club World Cup and the Gold Cup at the same time, well, OK, we had our full strength 11. So we picked up some cheap points and here we are. Right. Like that's not as fun of a story as Portland Timbers going double.

in the first round in a shootout against Sporting Kansas City and then being able to sort of build their momentum organically like that and then win their first MLS Cup. That's just a better story.

Right. So, of course, inevitably, MLS Cup is going to be how a season is determined. But now there isn't really much of a discussion that we can credibly have about the shield on the other side. And I think that that's been a pretty recent sort of pivot where it's been especially like, OK, well, and it's because they keep adding teams.

So the schedule imbalance, points per game against, all that sort of thing, it's so out of sort right now. It's a bummer. I don't think that that's necessarily the competitive format a lot of us would design.

Well, and even MLS Cup always has the edge in these discourses because one game knockouts, once you get past the first round, always have better narratives anyway. And it comes last, right? It comes last. It's always the thing freshest in the mind. So the Shield already has a large mountain to climb, but... It doesn't help when MLS is making it more difficult for those of us that actually want to sink our teeth into and care about and talk about the regular season.

I find that to be frustrating. Jeff, you mentioned Nashville. Unbeaten in nine, I hear. Just like the Reds were up to a point. Nashville's unbeaten in five. Yeah, gotta love that. They beat the Fire 2-0 in Chicago over the weekend. It is funny to me that BJ Callahan's team continues to beat Greg Berhalter's team just from a funny I'm online too much perspective. Optics and vibes, yeah. Nashville are a real team, dude. They have the second best.

expected goal differential in the Eastern Conference behind the Philadelphia Union. The DPs are going and scoring and playing good soccer as this team as a whole is playing good soccer. Jeff, I'm impressed by what this national side is cooking up.

That's, I mean, really all you need to say. The DPs finally look like they're working together. Like Cincinnati, take note, they're brighter days ahead between your kind of mismatched stylistically of a star striker and a proven MLS number 10 designated player.

Because they look so good right now. I don't know what trust fall exercises Honey Mukhtar and Sam Surich have been working on this last offseason because they suddenly look much more in lockstep than they did for their first year and a half. Surich looks like...

A lot of times, Serge has looked like kind of a finesse poacher, where he's pretty much British Wando, like through his first year and a half, where it was like, if you get him in the right spot, it'll be really useful. And if you're able to get him the ball with the right patterns of service, it's great. However, his...

Avenues were more limited than Wondolowski's, who I think was, you know, much more of a grinder and was able to create those opportunities for himself to a better extent. The same surge has been who looks like it's more of a first or second touch. And if if he can't take a shot in that time, he should pass it off. Right. This year, he looks.

looks like he knows where he should be moving. And so this is also a credit to BJ Callahan for maybe giving him better marching orders, right? But I think that you have... So much clarity in the final third of how they can threaten you, not just what they want to do, but how they can actually make a team sweat defensively, which is new.

and difficult uh you know a team like chicago they haven't gotten really to improving their defense yet they really focus their build on get the attack in a much better way let's support hugo kuipers the best way we possibly can and then let's go with the midfield gradually over time we'll get to defense when we get to it which has been pretty much the chicago fires motto since you know 20 2005 we'll get to the defense when we get to it um so that's fine but i think nashville has credibly become

you know, a viable threat. You know, I think that at this point, And the Eastern Conference, I'm more confident in them than Miami, for example, in a knockout bracket, because I also do think that they have those big game talents and they have defensive shape and they have Andy Nahar, who is like suddenly one of the best creative players in the league again, like a decade later.

And so like, that's just good, clean, wholesome fun for everyone. But yeah, I think overall, like, you know, again, it's it is granted still. the Chicago fire. There's still a team that's in transition. There's still a team that's figuring themselves out and building towards something that is not going to probably be achieved in 2025 alone, which is good. They needed that sort of long-term patience and process, but.

Nashville, I think, is in a very, very good way right now, both with their squad build and then also how they're playing under Callahan. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very, very impressed by what Nashville have done. And we talked about that before on this show. One of the biggest surprises for me of 2025. And I think basically everybody there deserves a ton of credit for the season going as well as it's going right now. They're sitting third.

in the Eastern Conference, which I... just did not expect to say at any point during this season. For me, Jeff, the other big story from MLS in the last few days is in Portland, and that is Jonathan Rodriguez going out and Tom Bogart reporting that he's going to have a season-ending knee surgery.

It's going to put him on the season-ending injury list, which in some ways is a good thing for Portland because it means they can go and add somebody in the summer window in that DP spot if they want to. Now, Tom was very careful. That clarity of like, do we make a move or not? You're right. Yes, now they have the door open, right?

That is a good thing for Portland. Tom was very careful in the wording of his reporting, I would imagine, because there was a line in there about they're only going to sign a DP Portland if it fits with their long-term plans, which you'd have to imagine includes David DaCosta. and may or may not include Jonathan Rodriguez, although it's going to be real hard to move an injured over 30.

high-priced attacking players, so maybe they go 3-3 next year instead of 2-4, which is where they are now. I don't know how you find a DP that fits in your long-term plans if you're not going 3-3, which we'll see what happens on that front. I wouldn't take it as a given. The Portland are going to go out there and sign somebody, although I'm sure they would like to. I held out hope, Jeff, that the Timbers were going to get...

J-Rod back and firing. I think I'm the only one who calls on that, but I like it. I'm not going to stop. Keep it. Keep it. Thank you. Thank you. That means a lot coming from you especially. Instead of getting Rodriguez back. Man, I see I chickened out last second. Had it. Left it on the table. Now they're facing what is going to be a regression. They draw 1-1 against San Jose.

They are vastly overperforming their expected goal differential. Data Hive Assemble, which Portland fans took issue with when I put it on social media. That's fine. Totally understand that. My guess is that they are going to regress a little bit. And now they don't have a clear sight line on someone who can give them a boost. Like they are still, I think Portland, a pretty good team. They'll make the playoffs. They've banked a bunch of points this year.

They had a chance to do some damage in the West with how many points they banked. If they could get Rodriguez back and firing sooner rather than later, that would take a little bit of the pressure off of Anthony that I don't think he can sustain his current pace. And David Acosta, we know, is not Evander, although he does impact the game.

He is not making up for Evander's attacking production by running a little harder, right? Even though we did that whole thing earlier on running and that does matter. I am worried about Portland in a way that I wasn't before, which is... I'll admit it's a negative formulation of looking at the Timbers. There's a world in which they sign somebody in the summer window.

And obviously that player is going to give them more than J-Rod, who I think has two goal contributions in 130 minutes. Even if that player doesn't hit the ground running, they're probably going to give you two goal contributions in those last eight regular season games following the playoffs.

But man, a lot of things. They have to find that player. That player has to come in. That player has to perform at a decent level to combat the regression that's coming in. And to me, it all feels like it's going to happen just a little bit too late. I think Portland could survive this year and even do quite well by losing Evander.

to lose Evander and Rodriguez, even if you've replaced both of those players, you're replacing them with worse players. Like, almost certainly with worse players because it's hard to find guys who are as productive as Evander and J-Rod. I am...

I'm worried for Portland in a way that I wouldn't have been if you told me that Rodriguez was going to come back in a month. Like, that's just the reality right now. I think they're going to be worse than the best version of themselves, than the best version of themselves could have been this year. because of this injury even if they go out there and take a swing in the summer. So I'm bummed out for Portland right now. I think they're in a tough spot.

I think that's entirely fair, right? Like you said, we just didn't get to see a lot of J-Rod. We're going to make it a thing. Less than 150 minutes is not going to be his big impact, especially after scoring 16 goals last year. It's such a drop-off that they were already...

sort of figuring out life without J-Rod for much of this year, which does give them some advantages. Antony on the left wing in that same position that Rodriguez played a lot of last year has looked pretty good. I mean, six goals, eight assists is certainly looking very good, so that's probably an understatement as well.

What's going to be interesting about the fit is that every single one of their top, every player on their team, there are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven players who have taken at least 10 shots this year so far. Six of them are 25 or younger.

And so like you kind of wonder that like it's almost the thing where it's like even as I'm sitting here looking at that like I'm overthinking this now and it's like okay do we need someone who's dynamic someone else who's kind of youthful can fit into like good vibes gang someone who comes in and kind of has to act like a substitute.

almost and throws off the the good vibes of the the room or do you you know have to bring in someone who's older and just say okay we have our future established so if we're talking about long-term plans

who is someone who's going to maybe like brush off on them and they'll pick up something or, you know, work really well with them. Used to be a similar type of player. So it'll help a couple of them with their evolution. I still don't really get Kevin Kelsey as an MLS striker. I know that he's, you know, he's, he's scored. scoring goals, but it's the second straight year where I feel like people are trying to tell me I have to get really excited about Kevin Kelsey and I just, I can't. You don't.

I'm not. Yeah, I just can't do it. I'm sorry. So maybe it is as simple as a center forward who's a little bit more... I mean, Felipe Mora has a good shot rate. 63% of his shots end up on target. Yeah, Mora's a good player.

Yeah, but do you try to find someone else in that spot so that you don't have to kind of offset that sort of Anthony Moreno-Dacosta midfield line going left, right, center, I guess, as I say it? Yeah, like it's a really, really difficult... sort of panic stations thing that carries so much stakes that you almost feel like the team can't not try. Right. To do something, it's just like it's going to be a very difficult needle of the thread, I think, just with all the factors around this decision.

Yeah, I firmly believe that summer window signings, almost all of them, there's the odd exception that that is agreed to the players in market and training and ready to go right when the window opens and they can officially be registered and they can play outside of that scenario. I'm a pretty firm believer that. players signed in the summer for next season as the MLS calendars constructed. And I think Portland need a lift now because I think they're starting to slip.

And that's just not going to happen for them. So I'm a bit bummed out about the Timbers. Jeff, I'm not bummed out. I will say just real quick with that in mind, it might be a good instance for the cash market to represent itself, depending. I can't remember. I don't think Portland's made a second move, right? So like they've still got some band.

with inflexibility besides um the evander move where i think if they wanted to dip back into that well and bring in someone um i don't have a name off the top of my head but i think that that might be an easier way to assume that they can make an impact this year if they played in the league rather than buying from abroad. So that's like an interesting wrinkle that's pretty new this year is that mid-season market of cash trades transfers might be very, very interesting.

That's a phenomenal take, and I desperately want to spend 30 minutes dreaming up who that player is. We will save that for a future show. Next week, we're going to have to talk through another international break. 100%. 100%. Jeff, let's do just that.

But first, before we do that, I have to thank you. Thank you for joining me and becoming the other half of the dynamic duo. Yes. The Alex Roldan to Mike Christian. No, it's not. I'll take it. I'll take it. No, it doesn't feel right. The Jordan Morris to Mike Christian Roldan on today's episode. This is the second time in this episode you've backed off.

comparing yourself to Christian Roldan. It doesn't feel right. Actually, what got me there is I don't think it was fair to you to compare you to Alex in that scenario. That doesn't sit right with me. Alex Rodan, great soccer player. Regardless, Jeff, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for being here.

Glad you made it back from Seattle. You're the best. Thank you. You're the best. Thanks for having me, man. This was great. Awesome. Awesome. Well, listeners and Hugh, shout out Hugh in Seattle. We appreciate you listening to this episode. We'll be back again later this week. Bye.

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