My Sleep Expert - Dr. Meredith Broderick

How many hours of sleep does a healthy adult need?

At least seven?

Is eleven? Depressing?

Eleven? Something's going on?

O good, coshha cosh sh show.

Hey, welcome to Tosh Show. Great to be here on this blessed Tuesday. Tuesday. The day is so great they gave it two days. I like it. How you doing, Eddie, I'm doing good. How are you doing? You know, just getting ready for Mother's Day?

Oh?

Yeah, gearing up.

Your mom's still alive.

She is good?

Good? That is awkward when he asked somebody they're I know?

I mean, I think you got to know going and as they are.

No, no, you canna? How are you gonna know without asking?

I think you're doing it just to be nice.

I always assume people's mothers are alive, and then I'm just rocked to the core when I fin out there, dead as shit. Yea deadis ship. Oh I am not looking forward to the day my mom dies. Okay, that being said, I prepare for it. What have you prepared? Which is what I'm gonna say at her funeral.

I'm gonna give us a little taste.

I'm gonna beat box.

Oh, I'll tell you why I'm in to beat boxing ever since that one in sync song where justin Timberlake just just went to town. I was like, oh man, this is the most ridiculous started to a show I've ever done.

It's good. I need to check into my mom because Mother's Days coming up? Okay, and No, normally I just get my mom a card, but this year I got our car. Boom. Who's her favorite prodigal son? Two prodigal sons. Yeah, there's two prodigal sons, both both yeah, both me and my brother Andrew. Straight. That's so funny. We went across the country. She's got two prodigal sons. When we do return, there will be no one there to kill the fatted calf. These are all things I worry about anyway. No, I

What kind of card you get her?

That's a beat he you know, no real lemon, But it's way worse than the car she was currently driving. Nobody, you know. Listen, all she talks about now is there's just too much technology in it. Ah, let's see that old hag's up too. I love her, don't get me wrong.

Yeah, Hey, this is Marco.

I've never once planned for her not answering her phone. What could she be doing at three or clock on a Tuesday? That's prime awake time? Wa Hey, uh? Two things? One? How many cinnamon rolls did you eat?

Uh?

Three? H seems tuesday seems like an unacceptable number. All right, where and where's mom? She's here? Do you want her? Yeah, let me talk to her.

Hello.

Why don't you answer on your phone?

I don't know.

I was just looking at my phone. It was right there, doesn't say.

What are you talking? You change your number? Oh?

No, I always have it silence, But yeah, I didn't have it in my pocket.

Sorry.

Have you Have you figured out how to get your phone hooked up to your new car? The bluetooth? Is that roll?

No? Dad's doing that? Dad soaking his up. I'm not doing that. I don't do all that. That's crazy. There's so much. I mean, I love the new car, I really do, but there's a lot of things that I don't even know how to work.

I don't even know how to open.

The sun roof and the all the buttons on the top of it.

Well, you gotta get in there and tinker. Yeah, what about id. Does the seat have massaging or no?

I don't think so.

Does our seat? What about colder? Ask them if it blows cold air?

Does it blow cold air on my butt?

No?

No, I bet it does?

You think it does?

Yeah? Yeah, there's like next to the heated seats, there's like a one that you make it, press it again, make it turn blue. Oh, by the way, this counts as my Mother's Day gift. What this phone call the car?

I was gonna say, we're leaving. We're leaving this weekend for North Carolina. So I was going to tell you, anyway, don't send flowers because we won't be here for a couple of weeks.

For a three weeks, I think.

Is this your first road trip with the new whip?

Huh uh huh.

I really do like driving, and I you know, the thing is, I know now I should have gotten rid of the old car, But it scared me, Daniel that last time when it heat it up and it said get all.

Right away, I thought it was going to blow up. It scared me a lot. And and you know, we never had trouble till January.

We started having one thing after another, and it was so strange, so I hope Mike can sell it.

Then, I you know, I wish we.

Had done it last fall when you had suggested. But you know, I, oh, we should have done it ourselves. We should have just gone down and traded that in and gotten the car ourselves. But I don't know, it's just the timing wasn't right or but but now I'm I was afraid of that car in the end, you know, And it was such a good car for fifteen years.

Oh, sorry about that, I'm back.

Oh you didn't hear anything.

I'm teasing. That's just a bit. That is just a bit. I heard everything he said. It was such a it's so long as long as I've ever talked to you. Pete was worried. This wasn't gonna be long enough for an act one.

This isn't gonna be on. This isn't night, No Daniel say that.

I'm not. Don't worry about it, all right, Let me go. Then, I got I got I got work to do, save travels. Talk to you soon, Love you bye. I tell you what. I could use a nap now, And today's guest will watch me enjoy.

Posha.

My guest today has dedicated her life's work to my favorite part of the day. She has a medical degree in counting sheep. Please welcome the sleep Guru herself, Meredith Meredith, thank you for being here, Thank you for having me. My first question, Doctor Meredith, do you believe in ghosts?

No?

Hmm, it's good to hear.

They still scare me though.

Well. Sure, A lot of things that aren't real if they appeared would terrify me. You were born in Korea and adopted by a family from Akron, Ohio. Now I want you to be honest as an infant when you found out that you lived in Ohio, where you like, this is fucking horrible.

My favorite T shirt of all time is it's a T shirt of the skyline of Cleveland and it says Cleveland You've got to be tough, which is true.

How is that skyline? Is it? I get? Are there memorable buildings to make up that skyline in Cleveland?

Not really? There's the Key Bank building and there's a rock rock and Roll Hall of Fame. No, that's right, that's kind of a highlight.

Yeah. Yeah, I've walked around that thing a few times. Never stepped foot inside, but I've walked around it as a first generation immigrant with white parents. What was Ohio like in the eighties? Were you aware? Did you feel like, Oh?

Yeah, I mean I never even knew the term transracial adoptee until I think I moved to Seattle, But id it? Does you do have this like George of the Jungle feel when you're like, you're like, you're like Asian on the outside, but you feel like a white you think like a white person.

What I think like a white person? Mean?

Well, I mean the first time I kind of got to know a lot of Asians was when I went for my fellowship at Stanford and there were a lot of Asians there.

Stanford hit the bell. That's another one. We have so many Stanford grads on this show. It's pretty remarkable.

Yeah.

I don't know about you.

That was the first time you met a lot of Asians? Is here in California?

Yeah? And you know, when you meet other Asians, they have like a secret handshake and they expect you to know certain things, and when you don't, they're sort of like, you know, like it's what's wrong with you? Like why don't you know? Or people will just start speaking in Korean to me and I'm like, I does not compute.

How about now? So now I feel like course I did, Like.

When I was in college, I took Korean and I met more Korean people. But still there's this feeling of like kind of almost like an imposter syndrome, like I don't belong in this group.

You know.

It's kind of an interesting like racial identity to come from.

Like what about what about with your children? Are you making them more aware of their So my daughter.

She's in kindergarten. She came home and she said I told her that she's half Korean. They were talking about that and I said, you know, you're half Korean and she said, well, will I be full Korean when I grow up?

It's a great question. That's a good kid.

So it's hard to explain, of course it is.

Yeah, ah, but it's fun.

Yeah, it's interesting to explain.

You attended the Ohio State University. Did you say it like that? Yes, like a complete asshole.

That's how we say it, because there's Ohio University, I know, and you just we don't want to be associated.

I don't think I don't. Those two of rarely are confused with each other. But okay, did you have a good time at that university quite a party school.

No I did. I had a really good time, really good time.

Columbus has always been one of my favorite cities to perform in shows. I love going there. What's your least favorite Ohio city? Dayton?

Dayton?

Dayton is awful. Have you ever been there?

Just briefly?

It's no good. That's a garbage city. John John back there. He's from Ohio, so here he cares about everything. I don't care. Where are you from in Ohio? I grew up very east, probably like two hours from Columbus. Okay, two hours from Columbus. It's not even a place two hours you can go across the whole state. It takes four, all right. So you're a sleep expert, I am.

I'm a sleep neurologist.

Somebody has sleep problems. What do they do? What are their normal complaints or problems? And they come to you? What's the process?

Basically? I evaluate people and I try to use my training and try to classify their disorder into medical descriptions. So, for instance, snoring is a really common reason people will come see me. Being sleepy during the day is really common. Insomnia is really common. And then you'll get some unique things like sleepwalking, acting up my dreams type things, nightmares.

That's fun. People start walking around and doing things.

It's it's interesting. My brother was actually a sleepwalker, and he would do things like climb out of like he would punch out his window and like jump off the roof and like run around and ring the doorbell. And I have a lot more sympathy for my mom now that I'm mean that's a crazy person.

It was.

It was very severe and it I think it was.

Like, well, I was slept through it until one day.

But I mean he used to walk. He went to Ohio University and that explains it. And he would he said, he would like up in the middle of like campus and his boxer shorts and be like how did I get here?

You know, he's still doing this nonsense.

I think it's better now. I think to some he like grew out of it to some degree, but he like can't if he goes to a hotel or like spends the night he wants to sleep on the first floor in the basement. So there's like long lasting effects of it.

Jesus. Yeah, I would travel with handcuffs and just literally handcuff me to the bed. Every night and then you can uncuff me in the morning.

Not a bad idea. I mean there are some people that we have them like zip themselves up in like a really tight sleeping bag and like put mits on their hands and you know they can't have anything sharp in their room.

Do you watch these people sleep? Is that part of your job? Ever? It is? Oh, it's so weird. Are are you bored? Or he's got like a motion sense? Or do they let you know when the highlights are coming?

Yeah? Well, so we record it and then I would page through it.

You don't go to their house and just just hover. No, there's no there's no personal visits that it seems like a fun thing to do. Don't mind her, she's just gonna watch us tonight.

Well, nowadays two people will record themselves and they'll send me things like sometimes they'll get a message on social media like can you just look at this video? And it's it's interesting sometimes the way people set up cameras and like people will like do it just of their eyes And I'll be like, yeah, that's just when as you're falling asleep, your eyes kind of rove side to side and it's just normal.

They thought they were posastrous.

I thought it was something wrong.

How many of your clients sleep issues are actually linked to unresolved trauma?

I would say a pretty high percentage, maybe thirty percent.

Okay, so you're basically a therapist.

Yes.

Are they expected to tell you like stuff that they went through?

They don't always tell people. I've had people write me a letter years later and tell me something that they were holding in and they finally addressed it.

Right when I see, what's the first thing we have to do?

We would just talk for about an hour about your sleep, about your life, and me really understanding what you're trying to fix.

Insurance cover this? It does in Seattle? I bet it does? Does it everywhere?

It?

Does?

You take insurance or no, I take out of network insurance.

Okay? Do people in general sleep better in Seattle because of all the rain?

I don't think so. I actually think the light dark cycle because it's so dramatic there probably messes with people. Plus there's all the tech people and you know they have issues.

Why did you specialize in sleep? One?

I just thought it was interesting. Two, when you practice neurology and you see people having strokes and you know, diagnose them with horrible things, you think, gosh, we've got to do something more about prevention. And so that really appealed to me. And back when I chose it as a profession, people thought it was really strange, like it

Of something, like you were ahead of the curve. Because now everyone cares yes so much. I mean listening off my father in law, just watching him strap up his seapat machine at night, and I'm just like, then he's bragging about his scores in the morning, I'm just like, oh, I got over an eighty Is that good?

It is good?

Okay? How many hours of sleep does a healthy adult need?

At least seven between seven and nine. We like to say, like there's this Goldilock zone, not too little, not too much, but seven and nine.

Is eleven depressing?

Eleven something's going on?

Okay, that's what I'd like. I like, No, I like, what do I like? I can't even do the math. I'm at least an eight hour sleeper.

That's good.

But I don't sleep it straight? Is that okay? That I get up of three or four times in the night, maybe two or three?

Are they short?

Very short, just to go to the bathroom.

Yeah, okay, that's what we wake up after every sleep cycle. That's probably what's happening. If you think about it, It's like how to protect yourself if you're living in the wild, right, you wake up, you look around, and then you go back to sleep. You're making sure everything's still okay.

That's what I'm protecting my house. Oh man, that's good. That's also my biggest fear about jail. I don't think I sleep has effect in my life to where I'm like, I don't ever want to commit a crime because going to jail that just seems like such a nightmare to me. How they sleep in there?

What do they do in jail?

Oh?

I don't know that. First of all, you only get one pillow, okay, and then there's a threat at all times somebody doing something to you, like your brother, except for they're not asleep. Yeah, you know, I don't know. It just seems crazy if jail was like, oh, you can have three pillows and you can stay in your cell all day and sleep all day and night and we won't bug you. Then I'd be like, okay, jail sounds okay, but the fact that it's like no rise and shine, and you got to get why are they

Well, if you have a sleep disorder, you're more at risk for vascular disease, so heart attack and stroke, because sleep plays such an important role in restoring our health and immune function. If we don't sleep well, our blood pressure goes up and that's a huge risk factor for vascular disease.

I this is great. All this stuff makes sense. Yeah, because nothing bothers me more when I talk to those people that I, oh, it's just three or four hours, that's all I need. And I'm like, what's the best position to sleep in?

Depends on what you're thinking about. But interestingly, there was a study that just came out in January in a very prestigious journal called Cell. These scientists think that when we sleep on our sides, we can drain our veins on our neck. We have these big jugular veins in our neck and this clearance of waste that happens when we sleep. We get better drainage when we sleep on our sides. And depending on how the anatomy of your venous drainage, you may to do both sides or sleep on one side.

But I like this answer. I sleep on. I sleep on my sides, flip back and forth throughout the night, and then occasionally I'll do a little bit on my back, and occasionally I'll do a little on my stomach. But for the most part, I don't have a set position. Now my wife just sleeps, doesn't move, doesn't remove the covers, and just sweats all night long. I just find it disturbing and disgusting. What's the ideal temperature we should be sleeping at?

They say sixty five? Does sixty eight degrees?

Oh my god, that's my heaven if you could talk my wife into sixty five. No, it's just it's like seventy two, just something awful. What kind of mattress should we be using?

There is some personal preference. What's subjective, and for some people it depends on you know, how much you weigh, So the more you weigh the firmer mattress you're gonna need and so, but like a medium firm is generally like you know what most people are gonna prefer. And there's some a little bit of science around. It should be heat dissipating, so you know, it's keeping you your body cool. You're not getting hot.

Everything she's wrong, right, everything she sleeps wrong. She shouldn't be this hot. All right, that's a firmished matdress. But I do I have a little bit of the acid reflex. So I've put the blocks up on the bed to for a slight that's fine, right, yep?

Or no, No, that's good, that's good.

What about those beds the old people have the foldable ones? Are people actually sleeping those things?

People do? There are some people that need to elevate more, either because you know their body weight, it helps them kind of mechanically breathe easier, or for reflex. You know, some people just have trouble getting out of bed, and so it's helpful for them.

I don't know, well, I don't like it when they have beds that are split in half, where one half can do something in the other half and then there's a seam in the middle. All of a sudden, I want to roll over and say hi to what's her name? You know, now I've got a seam.

Well, but you know what with the temperature thing like you're talking about, they have those cooling mattresses now where like you know, you can have the cooling mattress on your head.

I don't care. I don't care about any of that. That's and you know the worst mattresses of those air any sleep numbers where they have the air that's garbage. Is snoring a sign of someone getting real sound sleep or a sign that they're about to die.

It's more on the about to die closer to the about to die. Although you can do that for a long time and your body sort of makes adaptations and they're not necessarily great adaptations. Like your your brain starts stops being as arousable, so you start becoming sleepier and sleepier. So that's why, you know, think about it. If someone's snoring really loud and they can sleep through that, you know that's not natural. You should awaken to something that loud.

This is great. See, I'm just I'm just thinking my in laws now because she has to have my mother in law has to have a sound machine on. A sound machine as an adult seems unnecessary. Josta has to have a complete black there can be no light, and then then he's got the seapap machine on and it's just chaos in there. It's just the loudest noise. I have got children in the other room that don't need these type of distractions.

What's wrong with them getting older?

Is that's just and just. It seems like they're just making stuff up. Explain what sleep debt is to people who might not be aware of the termin thing. It sounds like a hippie dippy bullshit.

I think of it like sleep appetite. So whenever you stay awake, your body builds up neurotransmitters and that increases your need for sleep. So it's just like if you starve yourself for a while, you'll become hungry and hungrier. So we need a certain amount of sleep debt sixteen hours on average to sleep eight hours at night.

All right, I'll believe that. Can we catch up on sleep to some degree?

Yes?

So for instance, if you're very sleep deprived, Let's say you have a big test or something this week and you don't get great sleep and then you can make up for it on the weekend. But if you're chronically sleep deprived, if you just think about in terms of math, if you add up those hours, it becomes so many hours. If you're chronically sleep deprived, you really can't catch up on it.

My mother, I was not a great student. Now you were a great student. But my mother's advice to me always Sometimes I would be overwhelmed about a test and herd vice as a well, instead of studying really hard, she'd like, wehill just make sure you have a good night's sleep. That was always her advice to almost everything.

Wait, it's a good advice.

Just go to bed.

It's really good advice.

You think it's good advice. That's great.

Well, you have to study, but then there are all other studies that show you're learning. You keep what you learned if you sleep after.

Oh, well, I don't know. I think she was just like, I think you just need some sleep. I failed the test. She's like, well, were you rested? I felt great? How long should it take you to fall asleep?

Oh, fifteen minutes, ten to fifteen minutes.

I can full sleep. I can beat that. You can, Oh easily?

Are you like my head hits the pillow and naps.

It's just the second I am allowed to take a nap, I just go to sleep for how long, Well, I don't know. I mean to end as long as I'm allowed to. If I had my dream nap, I would probably it would probably be close to an hour, but usually they're much shorter than that. Is that too long? Is an hour too long?

No, it's not too long. There are different lengths of naps that have different benefits. So like the power nap, you're getting a certain number of minutes of stage two and that's performance enhancing. And then you know, we say, like the perfect nap is one sleep cycle midday, and so there's like different times you would take it to try to get different distributions of your sleep stages.

I just feel like I'm very European. I just need a nap after I eat. If I eat lunch, I want to go down almost immediately. Can napping be a problem.

The only time I'm really against them is for people who struggle with chronic insomnia. They're very counterproductive to that. Or sometimes people fall asleep on the couch and then they get up to go to bed, and then they can't sleep because they've you know, just slept for a while.

My wife every night falls asleep on the couch at night and I'm like, well, why don't we just get up and go to bed, and she's like, I don't want to go. I'm like, she just wants to go to sleep twice Basically, it seems so unnecessary. But the ordeal of doing all the stuff before bed is too much. I guess we have no TVs in any bedroom in our house, but everybody gets an iPad. No, we don't have TVs. I remember when they were that was I was like, no, no, there's like one. There's TV in

I think. So I think that's a big part of it.

Reading on your phone before bed is it's bad for us. We shouldn't do it.

It's bad because it's the light, for one, is sending a signal that it's daytime.

When can't we change the light setting.

It doesn't really filter it out completely at the little like blut. I forget what it's called, like dark mode or I forget what it's called.

There is a dark mode.

And then also what we're doing. So if you're on social media or you're scrolling, it's kind of giving you a little dopamine hits and just kind of it kind of keeps your day going where we need a little.

But what if I'm just straight reading from the phone.

I think that's okay. I mean, it's better. The less light the better.

When do you stop eating before bed?

So I eat dinner around six o'clock and I don't eat anything after that.

You have dessert after dinner?

No, I mean rarely, unless it's like a special occasion, or you don't.

Have a sweet tooth, or you just don't want to have dessert because it's not good for you.

It will affect my sleep. I will have a reflux. And also I just if I do, I'm going to gain weight.

You're a tiny person. I don't is you're do you die? It is a huge part of sleeping, right it is.

It is more than people realize. They're entwined, they're synergistic with each other.

So you're saying a minimum of three hours, I would a minimum of three I'd love to eat, And then well, what about but naps, It's okay to eat and then crash if you eat before bed.

You know, one you can have like reflux and things like that. But also it moves your circadian rhythm, like your natural timing of sleep, it moves it a little later. So, especially if you're someone who has trouble getting up in the morning or going to bed at the right time, it can be very counterproductive.

How come if I don't fall asleep right when I'm tired, that then oh, there goes that opportunity to fall asleep.

I don't know the answer to that question, but I do hear people say that a lot that they almost feel like, you know, it's like a wave coming and you missed it and you have to wait for the next one.

Right, But that's not helpful if you can't tell me why do you sleep well?

I do?

I sleep extremely well?

Have you always slept well?

You know?

I'm one of those goods sleepers. But in sleep medicine, you can be too sleepy. So I've definitely been on that end of the spectrum, like we think of insomnia's when you don't sleep well. But there can also be people who are too sleepy and sleep too much, and so I've definitely been on that end of the spectrum at times in my life.

Do you are you married?

I'm married?

Okay, your husband, yes? Does he sleep well?

He does.

Do you guys go to bed at the same time every night?

We do, but we're kind of we're both night owls, and so we we sort of have a negative effect on each other.

I don't like this. Okay, you're both night owls. So what time do you go to bed at night?

Well?

Now, because I have young kids, I try to go to bed by like nine thirty ten. But Pry before kids, it was like midnight.

What time do you wake up? What times the kids wake up?

My kids wake up around six forty five seven, but I get up at between six and six fifteen.

I'm just getting your routine. We have the exact same age kids. You have a two year old and a six year old. We both have two year olds and six year olds. Every minute that I'm awake past them going to bed, I feel is wasted. I'm like, I should just go down. What am I doing? What We're going to start a new series? Like this is not the time, this is this is time to recharge. Yes, So I try I try to go I go to bed very early. Did your kids sleep well?

Yes?

I mean I had to sleep train them, which for some reason is extremely controversial. Whenever I talk about it, people will I'll get messages saying like you're a child abuser.

Well that who cares think that?

No, I know, but for some reason it's so controversial. But I did. I did sleep train my first one around six months, and the second one I was just like three months.

Let's go, oh, good for you.

Yeah.

I sleep trained the first one and it took in like two days. Yes, it was like two days of torture, you know, doing the alarm on my phone. Okay, but the second one didn't care as much and she just figured it out pretty quickly. Both of my kids great sleepers. And I see people that struggle but they don't do the things necessary to stop it. So I'm like, well, I don't care anymore. Oh you're tired, Well, yeah, your

I waited, and you're technically supposed to wait until one year because sometimes longer.

Some of these pediatricians like, don't put anything in there yet. I'm like, what, my kid's got a pillow blanket, doesn't need a sleepsack and just sleeps. They're like, well does she stay on the pillow? Like for the most part?

Yeah.

How important are pillows?

I guess I don't know the scientific answer to that, but I think people find them to be helpful for next support, and I think they become something we're used to if we have them.

So, how many pillows you sleep with?

Two?

I'm a three?

No?

Are they all under your head?

No?

No?

But I have one like kind of like uh, firmish foam one that is down and then a really soft feather one on top it. That way I get the height, but I still have the softness of the feather one smart Okay. Then the other one is just for body and knees and stuff like that.

I'm going to use that in my clinic.

You can have that one. No, but my wife has just she's got all kinds of nonsense. She's got these square pillows that are supposed to help for back support. None of it I don't pay attention to. There's a wall between us at this point, and that both physical and emotional. Do women actually require more sleep than men?

There are studies that show that women need a little bit more sleep than men, But it's a little bit murky because women also have more fragmented sleep and more sleep disruption, and so there is it's not really clear whether there's a physiological need for more sleep or women just sleep a little bit more because it's more disrupted, or they have more you know, some women have more responsibilities if they carry the domestic load and then also working,

Did you work through your pregnancies or no, I did. Did you like that or no?

You know, it would have been nice, I think to have a choice about it. I think I would have liked to work less than like normal. And it's definitely like a push pull where I love my work and I love what I do, but I'm also aware of the fact that this is such a transient and important time to pay full attention to my kids.

So how did you sleep while you were pregnant?

Not as good as I did?

Well? Sure?

Yeah?

But was it was it miserable at the end?

Or no?

I had a lot of vivid dreams, which is very common. I had I had horrible reflux, to the point where like one of my back, like the back part of one of my teeth like shattered off because my reflux was so bad. Oh so yeah, And then I had all the pillows.

Did you the big snake one that wrapsed around you?

Yes?

I hated that thing so much. The day that thing left our bedroom, I was just so excited.

Just because it takes up so much space.

No.

No, because putting the dumb pillow case on it is maddening. It's so fucking hard. It's a two person job. I need somebody to hold while I'm pulling. It's I just I didn't like that my son doesn't close his eyes all the way when he sleeps. Besides it just being creepy. Is there anything I need to do?

Is it all the time?

Or do you like when I see him sleeping, I'm like, there's they're just a little bit open, you know, people that sleep with their eyes a little bit open.

I think, just as long as his eyes aren't dry, just making sure that that as ice tay, you know.

Okay, I think I think his eyes are lubricating. Where are you at on giving kids fistful of fistfuls of melatonin? Not good, not good, good to know I would never do that. What about melotonin in general?

I like melatonin for very specific reasons, for short periods of time. I think it can be appropriate, but it shouldn't be a substitute for trying to form the natural behaviors and creating patterns and consistency with your kids around bedtime.

Okay? Have you ever used it for your kids?

A few times?

Okay, me too? What should we sleep in? And what do you think of people that sleep naked? It's disgusting leading the witness? Uh, no comment, naked sleeper? Is that what I just learned by you saying no comment?

No, I'm not, I'm not. I think you have to dress for the climate you live in, you know, I mean.

Controlled climates, well.

Not necessarily like in Seattle, no one has air conditioning.

Right in the song Malibu, nobody has air conditioning?

Really okay? But is there an ice breeze all the time? Okay? But if it's really hot, you know, obviously you're going to sleep in something lighter. But you know, they say, like moisture wicking and like heat dissipating fabrics are good. But Honestly, those things are like icing on the cake. It's not an it's you don't have to have those things to be a good sleeper, but they can. I think they can enhance the experience, right, just.

Like recently gotten pajamas, like actual pajamas, because my wife's like, what are you doing? Why don't you have any nice pajamas? I don't like sleep. My grandpa. I have one pair of his pajamas because I, as a child, I would always I can I remember all of his pajamas, and he had all those, like the pants with the shirt and the button. I'm like, he is sleeping in a little suit. Everybody's on the show gets a gift. It's just stuff I bring from my house. You're not gonna

Yes?

Do you allow their friends to bring gifts?

Yes?

Okay, I say no gifts. I'm always like, no, no gifts, no thank you, just whatever. I don't care. And then everybody still brings gifts. Well guess what, I don't give them to my kids. I know, I store them. And then whenever I need a gift for some reason is like boom, We've got a gift ready to go.

Do your kids?

No, no, no, okay, no no, I don't tell them. But by the way they get they get gifts. We give them gifts for their birthday. But when I'm having a party for their birthday, but I just want the kids to come over and play, and I don't want this big thing of everybody bring gifts. But then sure enough, everybody brings a gifts. My son's birthday party just happened in his six year party and Eddie that works here. Three people got him magic sets. Now, first of all,

There you go give that now, I don't have to shop for them to bring them.

You don't write exactly, we'll put that in there here. Now, your husband did he watched my show? Right?

He is a super fan.

Okay, look at this. This is an award I received. It is presented to Dan to celebrate my one millionth Tosh point zero download. It must have been something on an app or something stupid. I've never had any awards hung anywhere. I gotta get rid of the I'm gonna sign that for him.

Oh yes, I guarantee you he will put it in his office.

All they're good. You tell him to take that. Okay. Now, I like candles, but you can't sleep with him burga right. Oh so I had a bunch of faint candles. But my wife was like, we can't have fake candles as and I was like, okay, so we'll just get rid of all these candles. We're gonna love these. I think there's still batteries in these. Yeah, that one's they look at that. They've got remote controls. You can put those in your kids froom. Then it's safe. They can just have candles.

Just was like, I do not need you have to get another No, no, we'll ship.

That for you. Don't worrybout that there's remote controls. You can put them on timers. I don't. I don't even my kids. Just doesn't matter. We'll get rid of those. You've you'll love those.

I feel like I'm on the prices right, more.

Like, let's make a deal where you win the all okay, but we're gonna have to get those off the deaths. I'm sorry. It's a lot, I know, but.

You you know I'll give you a back can handle it.

Have you made contact with your biological parents.

I haven't made contact, but I have attempted to. I have done what's called like a search through the adoption agency, but they aren't able to put me in contact. But I have tried. You know, if I didn't have a little kids right now and I had the bandwidth, I sort of wish I would have done it when I was younger.

Okay, but people have.

Told me that it's possible, and you have to go to Korea. You have to go to Korea, and you have to hire like a private detective, or you have to basically find them. I think that's the real hurdle,

Know about you now. As an adoptive individual, how do you feel about the experience overall and what advice would you offer to someone considering it.

The main thing that I would tell people is keep the connection between the biological family. You know, you don't necessarily have to have a relationship the whole childhood, but maintain that identity and the connection so that if the child has questions and wants to seek that out someday, they have a right to go ask those questions.

I mean health benefits alone.

Yeah, health benefits for sure.

I've looked into adopting before, I think in California. Now, in California, all adoptions have to be open adoptions. It can't be a sealed off private like that they used to be. Is that true or no?

I don't know that for sure.

I think that's true. I don't know that was what I was told. Now that, which I think is a good thing. Is what you're saying is what we should do. Can you have a nightmare and still have good sleep?

You can? A lot of it has to do with the way the person subjectively interprets that experience. Usually when people come to see me for that, they're not having a good sleep. I mean, that's why they're there to see me.

Is lucid dreaming a real thing?

It is?

Can you do it?

I've experienced it, but I'm not one of the rare people that can do it frequently, who experiences it frequently. But I've never really trained. I think you have to train yourself to some degree.

How do we how do we know that people are actually good at it and or doing what they say? We just have to take people's word. There's no way to track it, right, Yeah.

But sometimes you you know, like there's a famous researcher that did these experiments where he would be following people's eye movements and they would wake up and say they were playing like a ping pong match. And you know, there can be little things like that.

Okay, well that's the one thing that goes back and forth.

True, but no, you do have to take their word for it.

Yeah. I mean, I've tried to control a dream or too, but at some point, I'm like, I'm just wide awake. At this point, I'm not this is no longer a dream.

Well, you're supposed to ask yourself during the day, am I dreaming? Am I dreaming? And then by saying that and practicing it, then that should happen to you when you're dreaming, and then supposedly you'll realize that you're dreaming. That's supposedly the first step. And then once you have that awareness that you're dreaming, then you can try to control the dream.

All right, I'm going to start working on it. Am I dreaming? Am I dreaming? I'm going to do that all day long. Do dreams mean anything?

I think it depends who you ask, But they're basically going to contain content from the day, important things that happen during the day. And then basically what's happening is the brain is scanning memories and trying to make associations between past memories, and so what we remember about them is what we call dreams. I mean, we all dream every night and we're not consciously aware of it or

Are the things I can do to improve my quality.

Of sleep, sleep hygiene, which we all hear about. It's kind of like we think of it like getting a dental cleaning, so maintaining good sleep hygiene. So that's you know, minimizing caffeine, minimizing alcohol, keeping consistent bedtimes and wake times, you know, not watching TV in your bed, you know, keeping your bedroom just for intimacy and just for sleep. Those things are protective against developing a sleep disorder. So

Well, doctor Meredith, thank you for being on the show. And uh, I appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

Okay, cass show, Thank you, Meredith. Can't wait to get home tonight. Crawl into bed. You know it keeps me awake at night, noise, mostly noise. If everybody shut the fuck up a fall asleep, how about you? You can fall asleep under any circumstance. Well, it's time for the segment we call hello from Toss Show. That's where one of our lucky subscribers gets a personal shout out from me. This is to uh Brett Hamilton, who proposed to his wife on a night they saw me perform in Las