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conversation. I'm Tara Thurber, Director of talent innovation, and joining me today to discuss her top five tips for HR leaders is Jane Amory, Chief people officer at DefinedLogic. Hey, Jane, how are you today?
I'm great, Tara, how are you?
I am good. Thank you so much for joining us.
It's good to be here.
So I wanted to first and foremost, just have you tell us a little bit about yourself and your role at DefinedLogic?
Oh, sure. So I've been with DefinedLogic about 12 and a half years now it's hard to believe. I started working as a business analyst, and then did some project management, and then was kind of managing that kind of work with other folks. And then in recent years have moved into this role of Chief people officer, where I have a mix of management and HR
responsibilities. So from an HR perspective, workforce management, so hiring, onboarding, workforce utilization, so making sure everyone has assignments, and is being productive,training and career development, performance review, that kind of stuff. And then also just some management responsibilities for our delivery staff.
Amazing. And with DefinedLogic, knowing DefinedLogic as well, mostly being an on site company, over the course of this past year, during COVID, and now, you know, post COVID, and the times that we're in, what's what's happened at DefinedLogic, have you had to transition from being in an office to being remote? And how has that impacted virtual hiring and onboarding for you?
So I think, you know, in general, I mean, obviously, there's been a big transition for all of us. I think something that's really helped us with the transition from an interviewing and onboarding, but really just across the board operationally, was simply the acceptance of our new reality.
Right.
As you mentioned, pre COVID, we were largely an on site in person operation. We always prided ourselves on a highly collaborative culture, and our ability to build meaningful business relationships with our clients and build trust there. And a lot of that, at least we felt was dependent on in person communication. So soon after we shut the office, it became clear and so we closed the office around mid March of last year, it's almost a year, it's hard to
believe. We, it became clear that we were going to be remote for some time.
Right.
And maybe it wasn't what we wanted it to be. But that's what we've been handed. So we had to accept that that was our new reality and start thinking about, okay, how do we do our best work? In this new situation? We didn't spend a lot of time and energy thinking about well, how do we make it the way it was. And instead, we refocused and said, Okay, how do we show up for this just as it is and and deliver for our clients and for our employees.
And I think that ability to just accept the circumstances as they are as as unpleasant as some of it is, has really helped us to be successful in our in our transition, as I said, with interviewing with onboarding, and really just across the board.
That's awesome. I think accepting is is a very big, very big term and a very big reality that a lot of us had to face over this past year. Was there anything in regards to the virtual hiring and onboarding that you've had to transition to doing remotely? Is there anything you'd change? Are there any lessons you really learned over this past year that you'd like to share?
Sure, um interviewing the change to our interview process was pretty straightforward. We, you know, had always done in person interviews so we had to transition to using camera on On zoom interviews, and since our employees are now living in a virtual world and are going to be interacting virtually, with our clients, the zoom interview really is a good predictor of how our candidates will perform in remote meetings with clients. How do they present themselves? Are they comfortable in zoom?
You know, how do they show up for it? And how do they deal with inevitable technical issues that come up that we all deal with. So you know, you can see all of that in the zoom interview and get a good feel for how they're going to perform in a remote environment. So that part's been fairly straightforward. And we were able to transition fairly easily. onboarding. I mean, we've done well there too, I think, but has required a little more thought and attention.
Yeah.
We've always, you know, I think it's really important, even pre virtual environment, to really prepare for a new hire when they're starting. You know, in past lives, I've been at companies where a new person arrives, and everyone almost seems surprised that they're there. So I definitely don't want that feeling. So we put a lot of thought into bringing people into DefinedLogic, they get a new hire mentor, who's their primary point of contact for the
first few weeks. And then they usually also have a competency lead, which in our organization is someone who's a subject matter expert, and leads that area. So we all get together before the person starts and kind of plan and then make sure that we have a good road for their success those first few weeks, one of the things that's been a little required a little more effort and thinking is hardware. So laptops, right. And I'm sure this is true for lots
of people. In the past, a new person starts, they come in their new hire, mentor meets them and walks around the office, they get to their desk, and there's the laptop and it's all ready to go. Today, we have to ship the laptop to the employee. And then either it's been configured by our help desk ahead of time, depending on how much time we had to prepare, or that has to happen with the employee and the help desk.And you know,it's been going pretty
smoothly. But it definitely requires a little more coordination, because I want that person to have everything they need their first day, so they're ready to go. So we've definitely hired a few people in this environment. And so far, so good. Everybody had a laptop their first day and was able to a couple of close calls but we got it done.
That's really fantastic. And I love the fact that you're really opening the doors to communication and the emotion behind having somebody start just to make them feel welcome, right out of the gate, and even prior to their actual date of hire. You know, it's the wellness of the individual starting, that's where it launches, right. So to have a positive onboarding experience is really huge for new employees.
Yeah, we, um, so I try to make an effort, once they get the person is hired, they usually we it's usually about two weeks before they start sometimes more, sometimes less. But during that time to make sure that we're there's frequent communication between DefinedLogic and the employee. So we use our HR system to generate a digital new hire packet. So that's one interaction and the employee can fill out forms that they'll need
to start. But also, I'll just email them during those two weeks, every couple of days to progressively you know, disclose information about what to expect, but also just to, you know, start forming a relationship so that when they arrive on their first day, virtually, virtually arrive, they feel already part of things. And you know, the two days before they start, I really give them a like, here's what to expect your first day, you're going to meet with these people.
And here's the team that's in place to help you feel, you know, to help you be successful at DefinedLogic. And we've gotten pretty good feedback on it so far. So I think, you know, establishing that connection before they even arrive is really important because there's a lot of anxiety when you start a new job and especially in a virtual environment. Even you know even more so. So we think it's worth it's, you know, it takes a little effort and more time, but I think it's worth it.
Well, and it's true, too. You know, when you first start a new job or you show up, you get to you can walk around the office or you can go to work and get a coffee and there's always that intermingling that's bound to happen. So being able to connect with candidates right out of the gate before they start and then I mean having the lay of the land for them. Having that mentor is huge because, you know, being at home I'm sure candidates and employees can
feel a sense of isolation. So it just opens up the doors right out of the gate for partnerships and relationship building and communication.
Absolutely. Absolutely, we had someone start Monday Actually, yeah, he mentioned that he appreciated he said he, he was a little worried about what it would be like to start a new job in this environment, would he be just sitting there waiting for someone to do and I was like, Oh no, we got you covered, you're going to be very busy today. You know, I think I think it's, I would feel the same way. So I'm glad we're able to, you know, make people feel more comfortable when they start.
Amazing. Now as a fully virtual company, and as you know, it your role wholly being, you know, tapped in and having your finger on everybody's pulse now that we're virtual as well. What sort of wellness initiatives have you implemented to kind of manage work life balance for employees,
I would say the biggest thing we've done is simply to listen.
Yeah.
is to listen to what our employees are saying, and then try to adapt and respond to that. So um, you know, soon after we closed the office, we sent out a survey, I want to say it was towards the end of April, and to just ask people, how they were doing, you know, how are you feeling, what's happening? How's it being home? And then at that time, we were even asking, you know, what would you need to feel safe to come back to the office, because we weren't sure what that was gonna look like.
We didn't realize we would be remote for so long. And since then, we've we've issued multiple surveys so that we can stay current and aware of how everyone's feeling because it's, it changes over time. Not surprisingly, one of the biggest things we learned was that the biggest challenge that people are facing in this new environment, is the balancing of work with home responsibilities
and new home responsibility. But you know, many of our employees have kids at home, who are like, babies, infants, and need a lot of care and attention. We also have parents with school aged kids who need different but the same amount of care and attention. And we have some people with adults at home that need a lot of care and attention. So it's a lot, it's a lot of extra stuff while you're
trying to work full time. And you know, I know, you Tara know, that the online learning thing has just really been challenging for people. Because Yeah, yeah, just put your kids in front of a computer and say good luck, you know, you know, they're learning it depending on their age. They're learning how to read or write, you know, math things they're gonna need in life. Yeah, it's a lot of pressure on
our parents. So we have had to, once again acknowledge that things have changed, and that our employees have different circumstances that they're living in. And so how can we, as a company, adapt and respond to those changes?
That's amazing. And I think, you know, talking about being a parent at home and having kids around, and all of those added added stressors,
added pressures. You know, it's it's funny, I was on a call earlier today, and with a gentleman who, you know, high level executive gentlemen, and I had my four year old, like, screaming in the back in the background, because she was done with her day at school and the dogs barking and, you know, there's that professional stress that I'm like, please excuse me, and he was like, actually, Can Can I tell your daughter a joke?
And I was like, absolutely. Now, again, it's all about that acknowledging and, and being comfortable in this this new time, and accepting and with the acceptance, you then can kind of lessen that pressure just a little bit. I mean, there's still all those different pressures, but I feel like it does lessen the the pressure and having acceptance from a company, the company that you work for, and knowing as an employee that you're they've got your back I think is really
important. And by listening, right, I think listening is is extremely, extremely important. on so many different levels too because everybody's got their own situation yet we're all in it together. Right?
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we've really tried to hear what are the challenge people challenges people are facing and then what can we do to respond and like one of the things that we've done is we've allowed employees to adjust their schedules to hours that work best for them. So for example, I have one dad who works early In the morning, before his daughter wakes up, and then he's offline from like eight to noon, and then comes back online when his
mom can come over to help. And then you know, we'll work later in the night and that, you know, you know, he's flexible, if we need them to jump on a call or something, he'll he'll do that. But we're able to accommodate what he needs from a scheduling perspective. And it's works for
us and works for him. So that's, you know, one thing we've done, and then we've also tried to tailor people's work assignments, so that we know if someone has, you know, what you describe small children at home, who are, you know, unpredictable, that they're going to be children, you know, maybe they're not the ones we're asking to lead a call or facilitate a meeting with a client, maybe they can work in other support roles that where they can work offline hours, and
still get the work done. And,you know, so we've just had to be sensitive to that. And we're fortunate, the group of people that we have, at DefinedLogic, they're all really helpful to each other and kind of cover for each other. So we've been able to accommodate there as well.
That's amazing. That's amazing. And, you know, the work life balance is so important, as, as everything every day is constantly changing. So, you know, I give kudos to you and DefinedLogic for it, because I know, it is really important to individuals. In regards to, you know, the fact that everybody, you know, DefinedLogic can be flexible with individuals and put them on different projects. In regards to performance, performance management right now is a really
hot topic for HR leaders. How are you see overseeing the productivity of your employees while also avoiding any micromanagement?
Yeah, I mean, fortunately, we've done a good job of hiring the right people, so they don't require oversight, as far as are they doing what they're supposed to be doing right, is a self managing self motivating bunch. So we're
fortunate in that way. So I would say, if that's a concern of yours, and you're hiring, that's something to consider, especially in this environment, you know, you want to feel like this person is going to be able to work fairly independently, and, you know, know, and ask for help when they need it. Also
very important. So really, from a performance monitoring, it's more about making sure that I am close enough to the work that people are doing so that I know the best way to help them, I see my role as a servant leader role, where my job is to clear the path. So they can be awesome and deliver what you know, they do best. Whether it's, you know, help with, you know, schedule, like we talked about, or training or things like that. And sometimes people won't ask for help. So I want to stay
close to what they're doing. So there's a few ways that I do that. And we are in a consulting model, meaning that we bill clients. So we have to track our time and a time system. So that's something we already had in place. And when people put their time in, they'll they'll say, I spent this much time working on this client doing this, we asked them to put a
description in. And that's something that is really helpful for me to say, you know, I can just go in and look and look at people's timesheet reports and see what they've been doing. So I would say, even if you're not in a consulting kind of a framework, you may want to
consider that. I mean, you'll have to consider the effect on the culture, you know, if people are going to feel like you're being, you know, micromanaging them, because you're asking them to book their time if they never did before, but it's an easy way, if you have a, you know, I'm watching, you know, 40 plus people, it's an easy way for me to go in and kind of see where they are. The, the other thing that we make great use of is Microsoft Teams. So it's a allows for each project team to
create their own project. And that's their primary place for sharing information. There's a chat function, there's also sharing of documents. And so I asked to be added to every project just so that I can watch the activity that happens on the project. And, you know, see the chats that are going back and forth. And sometimes, you know, I'll know okay, this team is really busy right now, or they're struggling with this
thing. They have a big release this weekend, I can congratulate them and say, great job when they've accomplished something. It just gives me visibility again, without having to be like, Hey, what are you doing to everybody? You know,and if I see something that I'm curious about or want clarification, then I can reach out to individuals, which I do. And, you know, I think that use of technology, it's just really helpful to just stay in touch and stay connected to people.
Awesome. Yeah, the the use of technologies it's like, with everybody being virtual remote, being able to, again, keep your finger on the pulse of the projects, keep your finger on the pulse of the people and and by you and your personality to have at least the the detailed understanding of what's going on out there, I think is amazing because it I think a lot of people might worry that about micromanagement To be honest, you know, for companies that transition into the virtual landscape, there
might be that overbearing micromanagement aspect that comes to the table for, for individuals, so to have the ability to have the technology, but really, it comes down to communicating and having that relationship with the employees, I feel is extremely important.
Mm hmm. Yeah, I think now more than ever, employees need to feel supported by their management by the leadership of their companies. You know, I I've always felt if you have to be constantly checking on someone, then maybe that's not the right person for your organization. And maybe it's not a good fit for them or, or for the company. So I just really see now is the time for us to let people know that we have their backs, it's going to be okay, what can we do to help.
And also going back to that acceptance thing, my favorite topic, but you know, just accepting that people's best today may not be exactly the same as it was the day, you know, before this all started, and just, you know, accepting that and working with that, and letting them know that it's okay, if they're not 100%, every single day, it's probably going to be alright. I mean, our group is so talented, that if they're 80%, they're still kicking it.
I love it, Jane. So what would you say your top five tips for HR leaders would be?
You know surprise, I would say accept the circumstances as as they are. That's definitely been a theme today, I guess. And then, you know, it's so you accept them, but what what them? What do you do, then you need to adapt to those new circumstances and try to figure out what's the best way to respond and be as successful as possible in those circumstances, you know, listening to what employees tell you, you know, we talked about the fact that people are feeling
overloaded. So, you know, what can you do, to adapt to that, you know, to respond with flexible scheduling, or work assignments, or, you know, if people are feeling isolated, what can you do to help them be connected to each other? We've looked at all kinds of virtual events, things like that, you know, how can you help, or can you, you know, we're also exploring programs like calm or that calm app or journey, you know, where they can access wellness content on their own
time. So, you know, listening to what their what their issues are, and then being able to respond in a way that's helpful. Connecting with the team, often, you know, whether it's, and, you know, we do a weekly stand up at DefinedLogic so we meet with the company once a week and are the owner of the company gives an update of where we are as a
company and what's going on. And then I tried to stay pretty close to where, what's happening with COVID in our state, whether it's was testing in the early days, or restrictions, capacity restrictions, things like that, now, it's vaccines. So you know, that's a lot of information for people to take in and stressful.
So we've tried to do that for them and give them the highlights, and then you know, that meeting the information we give this helpful, but I think, in addition to that, it's just that opportunity to connect as a company, which I think it's been helpful and we've tried to look for other you know, virtual events that we do, it's a balancing act, because people are so overloaded, they don't always want to attend but that that connecting, connecting with your employees keep finding ways
to connect with them, I would say is a tip and then taking advantage of technology. I think technology helps to enable that connection, you know, and helps to facilitate communication and awareness of what's going on whether it's through the surveys or Microsoft Teams, as I mentioned, that you know, technology can be your friend in this environment and just think about, you know, creative ways to use it. So I would say those are my top five.
I love it, Jane, I you know, there's so much that there is so much silver lining that I see out of the transition that DefinedLogic has gone through. And it's really exciting to also see the connection that you guys are working hard to form, but also to build off of, and to really build the culture internally, even though everybody is remote.
Thanks. Yeah, I mean, I have to credit a lot to our team. A great group of people in the way they've shown up has been super impressive. And also to our leader to Mike Simon, I think he's been really a compassionate leader. I think he models well for the rest of the company as far as trying to find work life balance, and then inviting those conversations in so people feel comfortable saying, Hey, you know what, I'm feeling a little burnt out. This is what I can, could use right
now. You know, we've been very fortunate that he's kind of set the tone for everyone else.
Yeah
Yeah. So it but it's, you know, it's an ongoing relationship with everyone. We share. We just keep figuring out each day. Okay. What do we do today to be successful in this in these circumstances.
Excellent, Jane. Well, listen, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to join us on our podcast.
I'm happy to do it. Thank you, Tara.
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