Hey guys, welcome back to Top5 brought to you by DefinedTalent. We are a results driven service working with clients to connect them with quality talent as well as working to make an impact within the recruiting industry. We talk straight about today's professional world with real world professionals, experts in recruitment, job seekers and business owners alike. Have a question for us? Send it in and you might spark our next conversation. I'm Tara Thurber, Director of
Talent Innovation. And joining me today to discuss her Top5 Business Tips to Keeping a Small Business Secure and Financially Stable is Lynn Shaw, CFO at DefinedLogic. Hey, Lynn, how are you today?
Hi Tara, thank you for having me. It's very exciting.
Awesome, I'm so excited to have you on. So I'm going to jump right in, Lynn, talk to me, what is it like to work for a company for 20 years?! (laughs)
It's been an amazing journey. You know, I've always stayed with the companies. I've worked for long-term even back in high school and my first job out-of college I was there for nearly seven years, which seems like a long time to me for first job. But when we started DL all those years ago, I never imagined I'd still be here, especially as the only original.
Right..
...20 years later.
Unbelievable. And now, how did you come to be a part of the inception of DefinedLogic?
So I guess you could say I was in the right place at the right time.
Yeah.
I was recently married. And I was commuting from Red Bank to New York City, working for a marketing research company. And I wasn't crazy about the job. And I was really unhappy with the commute. So on the train one day, my husband who was
Yeah. (laughs)
...which was amazing. But I didn't have any web commuting with me at the time said, you know, read this experience. I did have a lot of client- facing experience and article, it's about a tech company in Red Bank, and it said Epresence, which was the company had a need for that at the time. they were hiring. So I submitted my resume. I interviewed. I got a job as a project manager, you know, gave up my two hour commute for a seven minute walk to work...
Right. But my second week on the job, Alex Shanley started, and he and So my first week on the job, they announced they're selling the company, which was a little scary, right. I worked together on many projects, he was a great mentor for me. And then when things started to go south a little bit there with the new company, he left. And he and I kept in touch along with Bill Meyers, who was a salesperson for Epresence. And the three of us started talking about starting our own company.
And in January 2002, we did just that. Wow.
We started working from a room in Alex's house. And we opened our first office in the Red Bank Galleria a few months later. And Alex, Bill and I managed the company together for 16 years until Alex retired in 2018. And then he and Bill decided to sell the company to one of our employees, Mike Simon in 2020. And I continue to work as the company CFO today.
That's amazing. And what a journey to I mean, 20 years and so many changes throughout the life of DefinedLogic and just so many ups and downs to I'm sure. You know, nowadays too. I mean, you look at people's resumes, and it's like three years or four years that they stay at one company and then hop off to another one. So pretty awesome. I'm very loyal, Tara! (laughs)
Yeah. I'd sure say so! So what is the most important lesson throughout your life, that really throughout your career, that you've learned?
I would say you need to be flexible and adapt to change. And everybody's going to laugh when they hear this because it's a running joke in the office about how I hate change.
(laughs)
And admittedly, I am not a huge fan of change. But when I look back at all the changes DL's been through in 20 years, I think I've adapted pretty well. You know, when you work in technology, industry, things are always changing anyway.
Yeah.
And then add to that being a small business and constant change is just inevitable. So you know, many, many things have changed over these 20 years from the size of the company, the type of work we do, the people, the office location. And then of course, you know, the biggest change was the change in ownership two years ago.
Right. And I liked the idea of well, just being flexible, and you're right, Technology is always changing and utilizing that I feel is something that it just helps people to keep moving forward. Right?
Right. I don't always like it, but I know it's necessary (laughs).
Yeah (laughs). Change can be hard, it can definitely be hard. But with change, too, there's always opportunity to be better, right? Or grow more from it.
Yes.
Throughout this what has been the biggest hardship you as a CFO have had to overcome?
So what's hardest for me is just ensuring that DL remains financially stable, and our employees are taken care of, even in time, say, when sales are down, you know, take the pandemic, for an example. We had just sold the company, some of our clients were struggling to pay us, but we wanted to do everything in our power to avoid layoffs and keep payroll stable, which for the most part we were able to
Mmm hmm.
And at a large company, employees may be nameless faces to the CFO. But that's not the case at DL. I mean, you know, I'm sure people say this all the time. But we truly are like a family at DL. I know most of our employees, personally, I know their spouses and their children. So it's difficult for me making financial decisions that may negatively impact these co workers.
Right.
You know medical benefits is a good example. Every year, I have to evaluate plans and carriers in order to implement a solution that's going to provide good medical coverage to our employees without placing too much of a financial burden on the company. And ideally, it's just a numbers decision, right?
Right.
But it's not for me, because I think about how any change to a carrier or the premium structure is going to affect individual employees and their families. So, it can be difficult to balance keeping everybody fairly compensated, you know, offering best benefits all of that and keeping the company financially stable. Difficult, but not impossible. I can happily say, after 20 years doing it.
Well, and I know from a couple little birdies that, you know, you're - lots of high fives for keeping the financials always in the positive throughout these 20 years.
Thank you (laughs).
I mean, not not an easy task. And, you know,
These past couple of years have definitely been two especially over the past two years, I mean, everything and I feel like it's been a huge pivot, but successful. Right? of the most challenging.
Yeah.
We hit a little blip early on around 2005. And then I would say this is the next worst, or probably the worst.
Yeah.
But we've we've done it, you know, we've done it, it was new ownership, and there was a lot going on, but we've we've managed to, you know, continue without any major issues these two years, which is really, to me, really exciting. And kudos to Mike and the whole team.
Yeah.
And, you know, I definitely was part of that, but I think it took everybody pulling together during this difficult time. And just definitely moving out of it.
Right, right. I just got goosebumps talking about this, because it's true, you know, and going back to your earlier point of, DefinedLogic is a family. And I think as everybody kind of pulls together, that aids in the success as well, right? We're all lenient or flexible with the ever changing landscape. So being able to kind of get through all of this together. And, you know, patting you on the back, Mike on the back.
Definitely. So definitely been some great changes, even though it's been a huge hurdle, so to speak.
Yes.
In your opinion, what is the most important personality trait or strength someone would need to work with in your industry and to be successful at their job?
You have to be really organized and be able to juggle many tasks. I do feel that that is probably one of my biggest strengths. And when we started DefinedLogic, and only had a few projects, I was able to fill the role of project manager as well as CFO. And then as we grow, it was clear that I would need to give one up - one of those roles up to really focus on the other.
Right.
And while today my title is CFO I still do perform any other tasks that a traditional CFO might not like we talked about benefits in HR duties that I share with our our CPO Jane, helping them manage the office, all those things. But in a company our size employees often need to wear many hats. And while it can be challenging to juggle all of those things, I like that it keeps me involved in many aspects of the business and also allows me to continually communicate with other employees.
I think that's uper important too. I mean, larger companies. They're like the CFO, who's the CFO? (laughs).
Right!
Or, you know, like, there's no, there's no connection sometimes in the larger businesses. So I think - I love the fact that you do have those relationships or connections really with everybody.
And they know that they can come to me, they don't, they can go to Jane, but they can come to me if they have a payroll question or a benefits question or, and I love that, because, again, it keeps me connected with all of the employees.
Awesome. Now, what would one piece of advice you'd give to someone starting in your role be?
I would say, understand the company's vision, and learn as much as you can about the work even as the CFO. You know, as I mentioned, my background was as a project manager, so I was always learning new things. And now, I may not need to know the ins and outs of every project. But knowing what type of work we're doing helps me to better understand how the financial health of the company will be impacted. AND to feel connected, you know, when things get really crazy in my traditional CFO role...
Right.
...and I'm not able to keep up with what we're working on as a company, this role can be very isolating. So as our business evolves, and we grow and change as an organization, so that we can satisfy the needs of our customers, it's important that employees have a clear understanding of what we do. And I feel the CFO is included in that.
And being included in that, I think, also allows more transparency too, right. So transparency for employees, but also transparency for you to make sure that ends are being met properly, or things are being done in a timely manner, to be financially stable or financially feasible too.
Right. So if I stay a little bit involved in the projects, and I understand what's going on, and when they're wrapping up, and how many hours are going in and that sort of thing, then I kind of know, are we going to end up profitable on this project? Are we not? Do I need to raise a red flag, that sort of thing? So plus, it's interesting, right?
Right.
You know, when you're in the numbers all day, you need something else.
Yeah (laughs).
And it's interesting for me to hear what other people at the company are working on.
Yeah. And I was, I was gonna say, too, I like the idea of you being tapped into everything as well, because you're also coming from that numbers point of view, whereas some other people running projects maybe have more of a logistics or more of a creative view. So it adds more to the team as a whole to think, you know, to put questions out there that maybe some may not think of right out of the gate,
Right, and it helps you to balance everything.
Yeah.
Ehen we're all involved, you know, me from the finance standpoint, somebody else from customer satisfaction, you know, we all have to balance each other out.
Absolutely. So, at the end of the day, what would the Top5 tips be to give to other CFOs to help them just ensuring they keep their companies financially stable and connected?
Okay, so I'm going to preface this with saying these tips apply to companies our size, you know, around 10 million plus in sales, roughly 50 employees, because I'm sure this list will differ if you're a larger or smaller company, but these are the things that have helped me over the past 20 years to keep DefinedLogic healthy and profitable. Okay. So I would say
#1 always have a plan. Maintain a forecast that helps you clearly evaluate the health of the company at any moment in time, you know, keep it up to date. As I said earlier in our conversation, change is inevitable, but be ready for it. So when a project milestone gets pushed out, but you are expecting that payment, or an unexpected large expense comes in, you need to quickly be able to see how these things will affect the financial health of
the company. Anybody who's worked at DL has heard me talk about year-end planning.
Mmm hmm.
I started a report in October at some point that allows me to basically plan out your year end spending almost to the dollar. And it's critical for us, because that's how we're able to pay bonuses. That's how we know how the start of the following year will look and are we facing any cash flow issues? And kind of as a 1b, I would say I have a great accountant.
Yeah.
I've been working with the same accountant for over 18 years, almost since we started the company. He and I work really well together. And he's a great resource for me when something new comes up. So that's number one. Number two, I would say manage employee utilization. So if our employees are busy and billing, they're happy and motivated, and we can keep them fairly compensated, and cash flow is less of a worry,
Right.
So it's one of the most important metrics in our business, and one of the most difficult to manage, frankly. You know, for example, ideally, as one project is wrapping up for an employee, the next one is immediately starting so that that employee remains billable throughout
Right.
But that's rarely the case, we often need to find projects that may not be billable to bridge that gap between client projects. We just implemented a new tool called Parallax that will help us to better track employee utilization, project health and some other things. And then we'll be setting up some new internal projects that better align with our company goals for times when employees do have downtime or non billable time to fill. Number three, communicate
with your employees. So communicating company goals with our employees, makes them feel more invested in helping the company to reach those goals. Right.
Yeah,
Once we reached the size, where we couldn't communicate with all employees on a daily basis, which in the beginning, we were able to do, you know, we were small enough that we were all almost in the same room in our original office Right (laughs). We were talking everybody every day. And once that was no longer the case, and we started to grow, we started holding quarterly meetings with our employees to keep everybody in the loop of sales and changes
the company was making. And traditionally these meetings were held in person followed by a team lunch, then the pandemic hit,
Right.
Then we were all working remotely. So Mike took communication one step further. And now he holds a weekly standup, that keeps the employees up to date, since we're no longer in the office together talking every day. And we actually have changed the quarterly staff meetings to bimonthly town halls, which again, just more frequent communication for employees, which I think is very important. And I think they all appreciate it.
Definitely
Number four, keep a cushion. Again, this can be hard to do, especially in a smaller business. But having a bit of cushion in the bank in case a project falls through or client can't pay on time. It just allows you to keep the business running without interruptions to payroll or paying your other bills and hopefully, to avoid debt. And number five, which I think is most important, hire the best people.
Yeah.
You know, you've probably heard this in every podcast you've done with DefinedLogic employees. But what makes DL great is the people.
Yup!
Having been here for 20 years now, I had the pleasure of working with so many talented and really smart people. I've made lifelong friends. And when you hire the right people, the hard workers,
Yeah. the ones always eager to learn, the rest of it falls into place. You know, as a company, we deliver the best products and services and we learn from each other because that's the caliber of employee we hire, then our clients recognize how valuable our employees are to their organizations, which leads to additional projects and more work and it allows DefinedLogic
to grow and thrive. So number five, which happens to be my favorite number is also I think, the most important, or it has been for DL for the past 20 years. Yeah, I agree. Number five and five actually is MY favorite number for this year.
(laughs)
So I'm right there with you on that. But I think you're so right, Lana, it's it's the people that that are hired really, really make an impact as a whole and you know, it starts from the top down and then grows from the bottom up. And then meeting in the middle is where you find that passion instead of it just being a job for people. I think any employee at DefineLogic, it's it's part of
who they are. And I think that that's one of you know, just kind of jumping in with your number five, I think that you're right, that is one of the most important tips for not only a small company, but any company, right?
Right.
It's the people that you bring in to build that stability on top of the financials. Right?
And it's not always easy. I mean, sometimes you need a resource fast for something that came up on a project, and you have to bring somebody on quickly. But normally, you know, there's, we have a rigorous interview process, and we really make sure that the person is going to be a good fit before we bring them on. And for the most part, in 20 years, we've been very, very successful at that, you know, our location is great.
People want to work in Red Bank, all of that, but, but really, it's having the right people, interviewing people, and then making sure there's a fit. And to date, we really seem to do a great job at that.
Definitely, I couldn't agree more. Lynn, thank you so very much for taking time out of your busy schedule. And, you know, congrats to your 20 years at DefineLogic.
Thank you!
You know, what a successful way to come into year 20. And here's to many more years ahead. Hopefully!
Thank you, thank you so much, Tara, thank you for having me. It was great to talk about all these things after 20 years and I do hope that the company is around at least another 20.
Me too!
Thanks again, Tara.
Tara?
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