Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to you by DefinedTalent. We are a results driven service working with clients to connect them with quality talent as well as working to make an impact within the recruiting industry. We talk straight about today's professional world with real world professionals, experts in recruitment, job seekers and business owners alike. Have a question for us? Send it in and you might spur our next conversation.
I'm Tara Thurber, Co-founder & Director of Talent Partnerships. And along with me today is Ellie Bright Talent Partner at DefinedTalent. We've got a really awesome guest joining us today, Jasmine Ward, Vice President Strategy and Operations from Tech United to discuss her Top5 Tips to Develop Recruitment Partnerships. Hey, Jasmine, how are you today?
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on.
It's a pleasure to have you join us. I'm really excited. So I'm just gonna jump in here. And let's just dive in with why don't you share a little bit about your professional background. And we'll just jump right in.
Sounds good. So I started my career in events in a very non traditional sense. Professionally, I used to actually produce college concerts and like formal events. So that's how I kind of got the bug of running around doing lots of different things, producing things working in kind of that like very fast paced environment that I now definitely thrive in here as a professional. Right! (laughs) As a student, I was doing those
types of events. And that started me looking at internships in New York City for other types of trade shows and conferences. And so I started out at a group called Tech Day, where I helped to produce their DC, New York and LA Trade shows these events were for the startup community at large and hosted anywhere from 200 to 500 startup exhibitors, and anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 attendees annually.
Holy cow!
So that was that was where I started my career. As an event director, I actually as soon as I graduated college, I launched their first international event in London, through that event on over the last couple of years to about 300 or so British and European tech startups and roughly 15,000 stakeholders in the European tech community. After growing that event and launching that experience, I started to become friendly with Aaron Price, who's the founder in New Jersey Tech
Meetup and Propelify. He shared with me his unique experience of being acquired by the New Jersey Tech Council, now Tech United, and brought me in to be the Head of Experience and help him really evolve the organization. It's been around for 27 years. And so we've done a lot of new programming, made a lot of
changes. So as Head of Experience, I helped to work on Propelify which has been known as the South by Southwest of the Northeast, and you know, where we work with DefinedTalent in the past, as well as launch our Better X programs where we've actually given away $250,000, to startups that are using technology to build a better future for all and recently have just kind of grown to this Vice President of Strategy and Operations position to really help grow the company into next space.
Wow, what a what a background, I had no idea that you had done all of that prior to Tech United and just leading up to where you're at today.
Yes, there's lots of other you know, fun things in between, I still sit on the advisory board for Tech Day. I also sit on the advisory board for Fiserv and for New Jersey Edge. But it's been a lot of fun. And I've got to meet a lot of interesting people.
So awesome. So Jasmine to you, you know, when talking about recruitment partnerships, what qualities forge a positive and beneficial recruiting partnership?
I think, you know, I've thought about this a lot, because this partnership that we have is really the first time we've ever gone about something like this. And in a very formal way. I think what creates the most positive and official recruiting partnership is being very upfront at the beginning, about just sort of like the
total landscape, right? Like there's a certain piece of it that no one ever wants to talk about, which is sort of like the costs and the process and some of like the nitty gritty things. Then there's the other piece of it, which is really understanding the current dynamic, what the company is currently doing, what their
needs really are. And then sort of cementing yourself not just as like a transactional service provider, but really as a partner in this growth in which like, you're not just coming in for the transaction, you really are kind of almost providing that consultative approach where you're a part of the team you really understand their needs. At least for me, I think that's really what makes it a super positive relationship. And that's actually what makes it a relationship versus just a
single transaction. You'd have a job, I can find you a person, shake hands. We're done here.
Yeah. Yeah, I it makes it gives me goosebumps to hear you say that too, because that's what DefinedTalent is based on is partnerships with our clients, partnerships with our candidates I feel that that's most important. And as we've been getting more and more into the nitty gritty with Tech United as well, I do feel that the partnership has grown even
stronger. You know, from Ellie, myself, the rest of the team really learning about what the not just what the need is, but why the need and where the needs where you're missing those particular needs to then we come in and help hire them to help you grow. Ellie, what do you think?
Yeah, I was, I was gonna say, going off of your idea of learning. Sorry, I might be coming in funky here. Apologies.Is it bad? Is it really bad?
No, you're good. You're good.
Okay, good. I will say, uh, you know, just always, always learning and learning from each other. Sorry, I'm, the internet's bad. I gotta call XFINITY. One of the things that I think is important in any partnership, especially one like
this is being malleable. I was thinking of just having that flexibility, constantly communicating and being able to say, hey, this isn't working, how can we fix it and having that just open communication, always wanting to grow and fix or address different issues as they arise and being open to that line of communication? I think that's something that, Jasmine you and I have had success with in an interview process just being like, hey, you know, we feel like this
isn't maybe working. Do you have any ideas on how we can address that? Or, hey, like, you know, I've noticed a lack of this skill set, and some of the candidates like maybe here's some questions that we can come up with together that are going to target the right people or, you know, hey, our job description maybe isn't what it
should be? How can we kind of fix that to be identifying the right people, I think it's always having that curiosity and the opening to learning new things in that relationship that makes it really successful. It shouldn't be. This is how we do it. Form to our mold, we should be able to be maneuverable, malleable and ever changing throughout that process.
Yeah, I agree. 100%. And I feel, I think that's important when we're working with companies to make sure that that's very well known, like Jasmine you had mentioned, like some of the uncomfortable stuff, like talking about cost and payment, and, you know, having to kind of get through the weeds of that, but also just being honest. And, you know, the having the mutual respect of, we're here to provide not just a candidate, but a fully rounded
experience for you. And I think that just allows us all as, as a partner, and within this relationship, to be more open to be more comfortable to talk about some of the things that may be uncomfortable at times, too, right.
Absolutely. And I also think, from that perspective of working on a small team, and having worked for small teams and nonprofits and in startup environments for a long time, part of it is that it's a bit of an overwhelming
process at times. And it's also for some of these companies and for groups, maybe their first time really going and making a really monumental hire, even if it's just an entry level person that on paper maybe is just like, there's 1,000 of these posts on LinkedIn every day, it's still a critical position to a growing young company. And so part of that sort of this ability to feel comfortable and really, it is kind of again, going back to that partnership term feeling like okay, I might
not exactly know what I want. I might say you we've been to this class before I need a Marketing Manager. What I actually might need is a High Growth Demand Gen Lead and it might be completely different, right? Like it's a different thing. That takes time to get there. And so during that initial exercise of it's a partnership, I want you to lay out for me how things are going currently where you need them to be. What are the skills you're
looking for? I think a lot of people when they're when they're starting out their first time going through a hiring process, they think about that title first.
Mmm hmm.
Especially if they're coming from the more corporate world. I've noticed, like people in the startup world kind of like titles are a little more relevant. And they'll make things up like, Oh, I'm head of like party planning or whatever. Which is sometimes what I refer to myself (laughs).
(laughs)
Lead of the PPC, the Party Planning Committee.
Right - yeah! In charge of whatever happens today, like that's my other title. So it kind of It differs based on the industry you're in. But sometimes, you know, people get caught up on that title and what that means, and realistically, it's just about creating a description and understanding their responsibilities. And a lot of that, honestly comes from your approach to like, what is this
person doing in 60 days? What are they doing at the end of the year, you actually really have to go, what I've learned through this process is you really have to go the same way into the future, to back into what you need at the present. Because you can't just start in the middle. You have to really think through the entire process in order to set up that person for success and honestly set up the hiring process for success as well.
Yup.
I will say something I've noticed too, as, as, especially as an agency recruiter is I feel like a lot of times, there's almost this like feeling of, you know, the agency recruiter, and then the company they're working with feeling like they're like, working against each other a little bit. And I think that is something else, too where we've maybe done a really good job of, you know, Tech United and DefinedTalent being more like, no, like, we're, we're working
towards the same goal. Like, I feel like sometimes hiring managers are like, Oh, I don't have time to interview these candidates. And I'm like, Well, you don't have time, because you haven't made time to hire this person that will take that time off your plate, you know, and, and so I think, or, Hey, I don't have time to give you more in depth feedback, or that's kind of a little bit of a pain to
send you more in depth. And I think, you know, for us, it's like, we want to work with you so that we can take feedback from a candidate that maybe wasn't the right fit to find you the right fit. So I think it's like having that mutual goal, like light at the end of the tunnel is a big thing, too, like you, everybody is working towards the same goal. And instead of working against each other, it's finding the way to move cohesively towards that.
And I think a lot of that comes with building trust in a partnership, too you know, that's a really, it's a hard thing to do, because you're not going to have that right off the bat, right? Like you're you have to learn that, you know, if I send you a candidate with a note saying great personality would really be a fit for for Tech United, and then they come in and can barely, you know, communicate to you then that's not the right fit, and you don't trust that I know what you're
looking for. But I remember we got to the point where you were like, I'm going out on vacation, here's my calendar, you know what I'm looking for setup interviews for when I get back, and, you know, I felt like we had a good, a good idea of what you needed and that trust was there to be able to move things forward in a positive way towards again, that light at the end of the tunnel. So again, trust, I think, is a big part of obviously any partnership, but especially in this type of role.
And it's important to I mean, we're coming to you as the subject matter experts for hiring, right? So we may have an idea, or we may have salary information, or and if we don't we go and find it for you. Because I think too, you know, from startups to larger companies, hiring managers aren't out on the boards, looking at candidates, hiring managers aren't out, looking at salaries, they're in doing their job, as you know, whatever manager they're there, manage it, whatever their role is, right?
So for us, it's we want to come and take that heavy
(laughs) lifting off of you. And I think a lot of times, you know, clients will even fear working with agencies because they feel like it's just going to be more work for them. But at the end of the day, we try and alleviate that. And that's why I say we're not a transactional recruiting
agency. We're not going to throw 20 resumes at you have you go through them all, and then come back and say, Oh, we like A, B, C and D. It's more, we're gonna go through those 20, we're gonna find out, we're going to speak to them, we're going to do video calls with them, we're gonna find out the ins and outs to make sure they're at least going to have a profile that is matching to what you guys
believe that you need right? And then there's also bringing that trust back in too, is being able to provide ideas or provide feedback from us to say, I think you might be missing the mark on what you need. Or I think you might be missing the mark on what you want. So let's dig in a little bit deeper, let's go through a job description, responsibility bullet by responsibility bullet. And more often than not, there's a shift because now we're having you think we're having the client
think a different way. And I feel that that is something that just again, going back to trust and building partnerships with one another, allows us to really help you, and help clients really figure out figure out
what it is that they need. And to kind of get rid of the negative stigma that recruiters have, you know, we are here to partner with you, I'm not here to just make a transaction and then not talk to you again too, you know, that's another big thing for DefinedTalent is we want ongoing relationships, I want a client to come back to me in two years and say, Hey, we're, we're getting ready to hire again, or to come back to us in six months and say, Hey, we're getting ready to hire
again, we want this experience to be memorable and to be a little bit easier on all of our clients rather than us giving them allowing you guys to hold all the weight, we want to take it away. Jasmine, as you know, working with a recruiting agency, how have you been able to navigate, building an efficient interview process or workflow while working with the agencies or the agency? So I think this perfectly ties into what you were just talking Yes.
about. A lot of it for me, the trust comes from communication.
And so that's been really helpful, too. And like, And what I feel very grateful towards and the DefinedTalent relationship specifically, is that I've been able to communicate with the team and the way that works for me. I don't know if every every group does this, or if this is unique. But I do find that the reason we're hiring is because we have
a lot going on. And so this is one thing out of 25 things that getting that process to be quick is something that took us some are going on in my day, every
day. And as much as it's a major priority, I have you know, there's constant competing priorities and work that has to be done and, you know, people to be to be kind of like, on boarded or processed or time, but we were able to get it after really understanding like reviewed, or whatever it might be, and there was a ton of that and working together to understand what those steps were process in there. And that's, that's part of why that sort of being able to get it all done in
under two weeks. That was really communication in the channels that works for me has been so nice, like the ability to build out, you know, we built out automations with air table that allows me to to automate a part of the process so that there's a very clear form that gives me the information I need, it comes into my inbox, I can review it inside of my inbox. And then if I and send back right away, we're emailing this person looks
good, they don't look good. I don't have to process through like a different document, a new thing, resume, everything gets loaded into one place, which for me is really critical. And then the ability to send like voice the goal and understanding how critical that is when the job market is what it is whether it's up or down, still being memos or give a quick call or like shoot off a quick text or respectful to the person as
well. And like giving them a quick email to give feedback right away, I think we're, I've quick answer, you know, it's not
worth dragging things out. And so being able to really build out an efficient and quick seen people get tripped up and well, I've got tripped up in the process that used the communication structures that worked for me and my team, but still allow for thoughtful kind past as I want to write out this super lengthy, really clean of review of the candidate data and time to really speak with email about each person. But it takes a couple days to do that.
them was super, super nice, but definitely took a little bit of time to get there to make sure it really worked. And so I tried to just give myself a bit of a break and just
Yeah, agree. You know, nowadays, too, you hear a say, Okay, I'm just going to dump a bunch of kind of like lot, especially in the tech world where, you know, there's a lot of I feel misconceptions between recruiters and startups quick notes or a quick like call or a voicemail, or whatever it is to give you as much feedback right away, because time is also or recruiters and tech talent. What are some common ones that you're hearing and are we getting through those together?
critical in the hiring process.
I think I can, we're definitely getting through them. And I think generally the landscape of recruiters and startups has changed a lot in the last even just the last couple of years with the way everything changed with working from home and remote work and hybrid work. And just the way the workforce has evolved in both its kind of efficiency and the way in which generally as individual units of talent like we go to market. I do think sort of the some of the common
Yeah. misconceptions, or what we address the beginning of the episode. So about sort of the transactional nature, and also what Ellie touched on earlier, which is that, like, a lot of people have this common misconception that recruiters have this candidate pool, that no matter what they're just trying to put in front of a company, they don't care if it's a fit, they just want to put bodies in front of a company. And they say that there are I'm sure some agencies that do that.
And there's a, whatever may be a method to their madness. I can't claim to understand that. But I do think that kind of this, like one size fits all, kind of firehose of talent getting in front of a company is is a
common misconception. And I think that's where, especially startups tend to be a little bit overwhelmed or a little bit mistrustful of the process, because they're likely coming from a position where they're already having an overfill like overflowing plate of responsibilities, and approaching a process that's probably very critical to the development and next stage of their company, for the first
time. And so it's a lot of that, like mistrust, and not understanding maybe the value of the relationship as well, depending on if they've gone through this before or not. Yeah.
Oh, sorry, Tara, as you say, I think that is really unique, too in our relationship. But I also, I feel like I have tried to defer myself in conversations, even with candidates, I want to learn what makes your company unique as a company, as the people that are in it, as you know, what your mission is, what drives you, what makes you want to get out of bed every day, I don't want to just sell a candidate the job description, because they can probably read
themselves. And at the end of the day, the job description really doesn't mean that much. I want to know what projects they're working on, what kind of an impact they'll have on the business, who they'll be working with. Those are the things that I want to sell to a candidate. And similarly, I want to learn more about my candidate in that kind of a way to be able to sell them to you or to an organization and make that I guess more of an effective like, coming together in the hiring
process. So again, it goes back to always being curious, like I want to learn what made this company start? What keeps it going? What are the people? Again, what makes them want to get up and go to work in the morning? Because those are the kinds of things that are going to make someone want to be there. But also, even just with retention and turnover, it'll eliminate that altogether if people come in knowing what the job is and what they're tying themselves to.
Yeah. And I think that's so important, too, is the curiosity aspect. I mean, so many tech candidates that we've spoken to in the past, at the end of a call, say thank you, thank you for listening, thank you for asking questions, thank you for, you know, diving in. Because we do care, we do want to know, what gets a candidate up in the morning and how to better fit them, not fit them into a culture, but add them to a culture that's going to
enhance that culture. Right? And that goes for all of our clients and our candidates. Like, again, we're not transactional, we don't we're not looking to just give an individual a job, we're looking to help an individual find their professional path. And I think, you know, in the past, I've heard so many candidates, just be thankful that we listened and we're truthful, we're honest, we're very candid with our candidates, especially when it comes down to feedback. And I think that
that's really important, too. We had a candidate, call us thanking us for letting them know that they were not chosen. Because again, then putting yourself into their shoes, they're waiting for that email to come through. Did I get it? Am I moving forward? So they're constantly refreshing their email when you know, if you don't respond or get back to a candidate, that's heavier weight
on them. When we can say listen, the client passed this time, let's again, build our partnership, build our relationships so that we can get you in front of other other clients. And that I feel like that's the same thing that we do for our clients is we want to listen, we want to be curious. It's who we are, it's everybody on our team. That's our mission. That's our, that's where we all come to the table with all of
our values. So it's interesting to hear that from coming from your side of the table as well. And just knowing that, you know DefinedTalent tries to eliminate those misconceptions, right? And we want to be different, because I think being different and being who we are, is really, it's our purpose. Our purpose is to help make an impact. And that's what we're trying to do.
If I might add, I also think were having this relationship is helpful in the eyes of the person hiring is it adds a layer of humility into the process. I know that people don't typically think about that, when they're doing this, they're like, I have a job, I'm going to hire someone, it's all about, like, why do they, you know, why do they want to work here? They should be excited about the position at the same
time? It should, and it does, I think when you work with a partner, add this layer of humility about, they should want you you want them to be excited about you, you need to make them excited about you know, that's why it's being responsive, it's being friendly, it's being on time, because it's all those little things that you would want, I think out of a recruiter that you would want, you know, from a colleague or that you would want if you are in that position that I want to see the
people that I'm talking to, to be just as excited about working for the company is that I might be is working like be for them. Like, to some degree, they're interviewing you a little bit as well. And they're wondering, do you ask questions? Are you paying attention at all? Because there may be a little bit more subtle? On the on the on the kind of interviewer side, but I do think it adds this layer of perspective about why should you want to work for them too versus them?
Yup.
There's a little bit of that angle that I think is important here. At any stage in sort of your career.
Absolutely, absolutely. I feel like that aspect, too like, when I'm speaking to a candidate, I'm like, Listen, you need to interview the interviewer as well make sure this is a place for you, as an individual. And ask those questions. I mean, you know, even going as far as, after an interview, sending a thank you note, that's like, as
we know, that's a key. And it's, you know, it's different - It's adding differentiators, perhaps, to interviewers and interviewees, that I really feel can can help but it's realizing and being aware of, they are interviewing you just as much as you're interviewing them. And you know bringing both sides of excitement to the table. That's when some magic can happen. And that's when I think, at the end of the day, you can get a good night's sleep knowing that the
partnership is real. And knowing that we're acting as that middle person for a lot of these candidates selling Tech United to them, because we believe in what you guys are doing, because we've gotten so curious underneath all the layers to be as if we're like rooted within the team and the company itself. Awesome. So Jasmine, what would be your Top5 tips for recruiters, recruiting agencies, seeking relationships with hiring managers?
So it's a combination of a couple of things I have said over the course of this episode. But ultimately, to create that relationship, I think you have to do the work to create a meaningful and real relationship. So it's really explaining that partnership and that consultative approach at the top of kind of like the first time you kind of interact with them and expressing that throughout the rest of your conversations and ultimately, hopefully throughout the rest of
the partnership. With the same time it's a little bit what I said earlier about being upfront about kind of some of the costs
and the logistics. And it's not just okay, it's this fee, here's our standard contract, but it's also here the people on the team you'll be working with, here's the estimated amount of hours we'll be spending here's maybe how much hours we'll be saving you because we'll be doing that time and energy, here's how much time we need you to set aside for this to be beneficial to you. Because I think it's really important to make that clear to
the hiring manager as well. Then I think it's really again, like communicating with the hiring manager in the form that works for them again, and really kind of besuaging some of their any of their kind of fears, making them feel less overwhelmed in the process. And then kind of the other two pieces would be giving value in ways other than just a straight talent pipeline.
And that comes back to again, helping to maybe, like, make that job description really aligned with what the team actually wants, or it's perhaps giving some feedback into what you think the best steps in the interview process are, or what the offer letter process should be. If you get to that point in the stage or you know how to really navigate all the ins and outs of in between the interviews, what what happens. And I think the last thing, which is ultimately
Yeah. a summary, I think of a lot of this is just understanding what the team is currently doing, what the vision the manager has, and then getting them to really visualize that because the best thing you can ever do for a potential partner is get them to see you as their partner in building that vision. As soon as they start thinking about their plans, their future, how things will change, you become, no matter what, a piece of that.
And so they take you along that journey, and you become a part of that vision. I think this is a tactic used all across business, right. But I do think it's really important when you're going to start a relationship that like you work with that person, to help them develop what their ideal future looks like. And that how you're a part of making that happen. I love it. I love all of those. And I feel that, you know, relationships, all
start with two people. And as you can come together and grow and invite more into it from the companies, that's where the strength comes. And, you know, I think being able to have an open mindset and sharing point of views. And getting it all out on the table is definitely something that, from our experience has been huge within our partnership as well with Tech United. Awesome. Well, listen, Jasmine, thank you so much for joining us today. Ellie, always a pleasure having you on with us too.
Love it (laughs).
Thanks, ladies. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. This is a great conversation. I feel like I learned a lot and also got to do a little bit of a retrospective.
(laughs) This was awesome. We are DefinedTalent a DefinedLogic service coming to you at Top5. Make it a great day.