Hey, Victoria. Hey, Ellie. Thank you, ladies for joining us today on DT Chats.
Thank you for having me.
Woo hoo!
(laughs)
So today, I want to bring up a super fun topic. Inter-employee dating. What are the rules nowadays? Are we allowed to? Or is it shunned upon? What are your lady's thoughts out there?
Yeah, this is a spicy topic.
Yeah (laughs).
(laughs).
But it's so relevant. I love that, like you're asking is like, what are the rules? Because I think so many companies like make rules about it. And there's definitely some merit to that. But I also think like, this is actually something that's been happening for decades.
So long.
Well, where did you meet? At work? Right. It's like, it's good to have these rules,
Yeah (laughs). because especially as an adult, like, once you graduate college, your dating pool is significantly smaller, and most of the time you're going to work. And that's where you spend your day, Right? Yeah (laughs).
So listen, I think there has to be a company policy in place. Otherwise, you open yourself up to so many potential lawsuits and litigation and just like it messiness, right?
Mmm hmm.
Most of the companies that I've worked for have had policies, and there were some that were kind of like at the discretion of leaders, but I really think the framework is like, as long as it's not a direct supervisor and a direct employee, there's usually some leniency there, right?
Yes, agree. I like that a lot. Agreed.
Like, nobody's going to be put in a position Yeah, disclosing to HR can be really where somebody can take advantage of the power that they awkward, it can be really uncomfortable to be like, well, have. That is the biggest thing that you want to protect, we're shacking up, right?
(laughs)
But whatever it is that you're doing, but I because that creates so many more issues, right? If I kind of have the same thought about like, can siblings work in the same place, right? And ethically how does that work? And I've had situations before where we've had to make sure siblings work on separate teams, I think it kind of is the same thing with dating. So there's no conflict of interest, right? Like, if I'm in a department that never touches somebody else's department, why does it matter?
We never interact, nothing will ever happen, we might see each other passing in the office, but like, the work that I'm doing is not going to influence the work that that person is doing. And vice versa. I think as long as there's some framework there that can protect some of that, it shouldn't really matter.
However, I do stand by wanting to kind of have a policy that says like, Hey, you have to disclose it to somebody, you have to let somebody know that this is happening to protect the business, right? think it's important to protect yourself as the employee, and say, like, everyone knows about it this way, nobody can make an assumption that somebody was taking advantage of me or I was taking advantage of somebody
else. And also, if something does change in that day, you are protected, the business is protected. You can't have a rogue employee, all of a sudden come and say, Well, we were dating and it was this and nobody did anything, there has to be some kind of process there. But I don't like again, we're all adults, there should still be able to have that ability to create those relationships. And who knows? That could be your husband, and your soulmate, or your wife and
whoever. Work shouldn't get in the way, you shouldn't have to lose your job because you fall in love with someone as long as there's things that can protect you as the employee and the business. And it's handled appropriately. I don't see an issue.
Yeah. Yeah. I agree.
It is interesting in thinking about that I, and maybe I don't know the answer. I don't know if you know the answer. But you know, at what point in that relationship, do you take it to HR? Or do you take it to somebody, you know, is that we kissed after a work function. And, you know, hey, this happened, you know, at what point you know, in your dating process, does that become the conversation?
Yeah.
Again, I don't know if you know, the answer if I knew the answer, but it is kind of funny to think about, like, at what point do you disclose that, but I completely agree, I think, you know, we spend 40 plus hours a week at our jobs, and we're hired under a certain culture and, you know, a certain personality type or whatever that may be. So we're all in a similar, you know, similar mindset, similar space.
And I think it's funny, you know, to be naive that like you're, you're in employees would not potentially have that connection. I came from a company where everybody was super personable, very good looking for no reason, same age group and just like same, everybody was so similar and it was hard not to, like be like, Oh, that person's really cute. You know?
Yeah (laughs).
At work you're going to have some inter-office relationships.
Yeah.
It made sense, like everybody was connected. And we had to see each other every day. And it was interesting, they did have kind of this policy of no dating for a long time. And it was kind of like, let's be realistic here that this is your basically fostering the space for us to
Yes! That's a big one. meet and connect and fall in love, kind of, you know? So I think, like you said, there is the, you have to be realistic about the situation and be able to say, we are in this relationship, here's what's going on, we want to make sure that everybody is, safe under the the corporate umbrella and that we're doing the right things. I agree, I think as long as you're disclosing it, but I also think, having a little self
Yeah. introspection and being like, am I the type of person that can
Am I the type of person where If this blows up, have an office or like an office relationship? And be rational about it? I'm going to drag everybody through the mud with my drama?
Yeah.
Yeah (laughs)!
You have to do some internal looking as well to be like, am I a drama queen? Do I love the Tea? And am I going I do think and that goes with even dating to make it everyone else's problem? You know? within friend groups, you know.
Yes!
I think you have to know yourself. Are you the type of person that can handle this and be able to just have that knowledge about who you are? (laughs)
Yeah, I think that's a great point. What happens when the ratio when or if the relationship doesn't work out, right? Am I going to be forced to look at this person every day and want to cry at job?
Right! (laughs)
You broke my heart, and I'm so upset about it, or, you know, what have you I've worked in really like incestuous companies as well, where it was like, there was a policy, but not everybody followed it. And like, everybody was messing around
(laughs) with everybody. And it was just like, it was like a reality TV show that we were watching when we came to work every single day. So yeah, it's hard. I think sometimes those are the environments where like, I get, like, similar to you, I've worked at a business where every single person was attractive. And it was like, Well, this is great for my self confidence. (laughs)
(laughs)
So yeah, I think in relation to what you said about when do you disclose? How do you do that? It's hard. I don't think there's an exact like method to the madness.
Yeah.
My rule of thumb with that is like when this becomes a serious, committed relationship, one of the businesses that I worked at, there was a couple that was a great example. They worked in separate teams, but that was how they met. And as soon as they decided to move in together, that was when they diclosed the relationship.
Wow.
And it didn't change things, though a little bit, one person had to relocate to a different office location, per the rule. That was the the way that the business chose to kind of handle it on their end. But I think that made a lot of sense, right? Like they had been seeing each other for a really long time, did not affect their performance at work. And you know, once they decided, hey, this is actually becoming a
serious thing. We're taking this next serious step, it's probably going to be hard for us to keep that part of it a secret when like, commute, we're showing up in the same car.
Yeah. Right, right. Right.
So I think there's different ways that you can evaluate it, I think, when it feels right for that person is probably or that couple, is when you're probably in the best position to do so if it's giving you anxiety, because you're like, am I not saying it soon enough? You have to remember, like HR is a confidential conversation. So you know, if you're really anxious about it, you can still approach your HR department and say, like, I just want to have a confidential
chat. This is the situation that I'm in. Is there a policy? What do I follow? Kind of using your best judgment, but it's hard to say like, this needs to happen, and then you can disclose it, because it's so different. And again, you could break up with the person tomorrow. So it's like, was it worth disclosing it? It's hard. I think it has to be a mutual decision. It has to feel like the right time and I wouldn't wait until the day you're getting married. I think that's way too long.
Yeah, yeah.
Approach it with your best judgment.
I like that it is. Go ahead -
I was just gonna say, oh, here we are. I'll go.
(laughs)
It was It is interesting, though, that you say like, you know, they just closed and then you know, one of them had to move offices. I do think that is probably in going back to like vacation flexibility and sick time flexibility. I do think that companies need to be aware that like, in order for their employees to feel comfortable coming forward, there can't be like this negative output.
Yeah.
If that makes sense, you know, again, moving offices is like, depending on where you are, I guess that could be like a almost like a punishment kind of.
Yeah.
So I think being, you know, being understanding of the employee's situation and not having these, like consequences to coming forward as well is something to consider on the like management level, if that makes sense. I don't know if you agree with that. I mean, again, I think in certain situations, that's not necessarily punishment, it might just be
circumstance. But you know, in order for your employees to feel comfortable coming forward, there has to be a certain level of trust that you're not going to be thrown under the bus for it.
Absolutely. No, I agree. I think if you're gonna have some sort of "consequence" you have to handle it with such care, right?
Yeah.
Like, it can't be seen this thing that's like, well, now no one to your point, no one wants to tell us that they're dating, because we're going to make them feel bad for it. Their performance wasn't slipping, nobody was doing bad. And if anything, it maybe even strengthens their performance. But you have to be able to handle it with extreme care.
Yeah.
Like, again, if you're protecting the business, because there's a potential overlap that could then blow up in everybody's face if it doesn't work out. I understand that. I think it's also HR's responsibility to explain why X, Y, and Z has to then happen from here out.
Good point.
I think something to to keep an eye on is dating, internal dating, to make sure there isn't power struggles too, you know?
Yeah.
Perhaps somebody dating an Executive leader, or, or the other way around, right? Male or Female doesn't matter nowadays. So it's really making sure that dating smart, I would say. Dating internally in a in a smart a smart way to make sure it is it's bigger than just a relationship. This is also your profession that you're bringing into the table.
Yeah. And you could blow up the other person's life, even if your career goes untouched.
Yeah.
Your actions could affect that other person's ability to have their career go the way that they wanted it to, just because the two of you decided to do something, and then maybe that changed, or whatever happened. I agree, I think that you have to be so cautious of, you know, is this person, you know, heavy hitting decision maker, and I'm lower on the totem pole? And how does that how does it it's such a bigger thing. And it's unfortunate.
It's a very fine line, right? It's a very fine line. And it's really about, you know, responsibility communication, and checking policies, seeing what the rules are for where you're working. But really just being truthful with yourself and with the other person to really make sure another thing too, like, what if you say something to HR, but the other person's like, I know what you're talking about?
Yeah.
I mean, that's an awkward morning coffee or or, you know, grabbing water at the watercooler conversation, but also too a lot of people are working from home. So at times, I'm sure a lot of it may or may go unnoticed at this point, because of the work from home policies that companies now have, right?
Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of companies also are creating policies on the fly, just by virtue of that we're living in especially if you're a brand new company, you've never had to worry about somebody dating, all of a sudden, somebody's coming to you, we're dating, we're doing this, whatever. Okay, well, how do we feel about that? And I practice, like erring on the side of caution.
Yeah.
Because you don't want to create a policy in haste.
Yeah.
And you also don't want to create a policy out of how that catches you in the mood on that particular day. Right? Like, oh, that really bothers me that so and so it was dating and I don't like that. So let me make a policy about it. Right? Like, you have to actually make sure whatever you're doing is to protect your employees, protect the business, but also leave that room for like the world to just be the world and there's going to be things you can deal with on a
case by case basis. But I think I would take extreme caution when you don't have a policy you're now forced to make a policy because someone is coming to you and disclosing this information, how you react in that moment and how you shape the policy should not be determined based on that one instance happening but for this instance and any potential instance further.
Awesome. Well, ladies thank you for joining us today for a DT chat it's been a pleasure having you both on.
Thank you