I'm Tom Morello, host of Maximum Firepower. A weekly podcast focusing on the music, the moments, and the movements that have shaped my world view and left an indelible mark on me as an artist and activist. You're correct with Maximum Firepower! This was made for UN ME! This is Tom Morello's Maximum Firepower! I'm Tom Morello and you are listening to Maximum Firepower and it is a pleasure and an honor to have Paul Stanley, the ring leader of the psycho circus that is KISS on the show today.
I couldn't imagine being any place better than this Tom. Well thanks so much. On this round of Maximum Firepower we're doing Top 10 list. So we'll go back and forth. Your Top 5 Moments in KISS-tory, the long and glorious history of that band, and then my 5 Top Moments as a KISS fan. I'll let you start off. No particular order necessarily. They don't need to be ranked, but give me one of your Top 5 Moments in the history of your band KISS.
I have to almost have at the beginning to kind of make an apology because some people are going to be offended and some people will say how come you didn't mention this or you didn't mention that. Of course. And it's not a disrespect. It's just what comes to my mind first. Absolutely. So with that disclaimer, I will, you know, there wouldn't be a KISS had a nut met gene.
So if we want to start there, we can or we can start with the actual band, you know, I remember, for example, Ace Walking in for rehearsal for audition. And when he plugged in, there was suddenly in this epiphany. I just went, that's it. There was sonically, there was a sound that may not have been the sound of a bunch of virtuosos.
We were virtuoso, actually. But the sound that we created before of us together was world class in whatever way that you would interpret that it just sounded like, okay, we've got it. And where exactly was that? Like what burrow what streets? So was that was 10 East 23rd Street. Okay. And we're where the band first got together. And that was really pivotal. It was the day that the missing piece of the puzzle came in. And the sum became greater than the parts.
That's awesome. And I remember as Ledge as Lord goes, he had like his tennis shoes were mixed match, right? And was sort of headache. Yes, he was very aptly named space ace. Yes, my first moments. I was trying to sort of narrow down sort of the moment that I was introduced to the band was, I don't even believe it was at a record store.
It might have been it like a local like grocery store through shop where the destroyer record was there. And I was a huge fan of comic books. And there was, you know, kiss was my favorite band before I heard a note of music. You know, I picked up that album, but then it was, but I decided for sort of my first most impactful kiss moment. It was the, it was the magic of those records. There was something about them.
One, there was something in the Bob Ezron production of destroyer, but those destroyer rock and over and love gun that really sort of transported me out of my sort of dull suburban existence and made me think that there are worlds beyond this that can be unlocked via rock and roll.
Now, this was all great in my mind. And it was sort of light. I had the poster on the wall and went out, but for the local record store dog your records and Liberty Village was a nightmare because I would call them daily. This was between rock roll and love gun. I would call them daily to say, when is the new kiss record. I read in some cream magazines of the kiss record.
Kiss as a record. When is the new kiss record coming out? They say, we have your name here, Tommy. And we're going to let you know as soon as it comes into the story. Is it, okay, great. I'm going to call you tomorrow. I said, don't call us tomorrow. We're going to let you know. And I called tomorrow until it came in. You know, it's funny because Eric and I have spoken about this. The, the whole fandom back then was so much less connected through technology.
Yes. So nowadays we have dates of release. You know when to expect an album back then I can remember just going to local record stores and bam, all of sudden the album I was looking for was there. Or I didn't even know that there was an album in the pipeline, which I think in some ways even made it more exciting. Sure, sure. Give me your second moment in highlight of history.
First these aren't in in any kind of sequential order. I have to say our induction into the rock and roll hall of fame was monumental, not for the reasons that some people may think, but it was, it was right. I was just a little bit more honest and I hate to see the bad guy win. And I really felt like no matter how high we jumped suddenly the criteria changed and we had to jump higher.
Right. So exactly. So it was, wait a minute, we've filled every box for a decade and yet this isn't about a small group of people's individual taste. This is undeniable. I think it was vindication for our fans. Yes. And for me, it was justice and also knowing that there was a changing of the guard at the rock and roll hall of fame and some of the more bloated dinosaurs, so to speak, were either dying by the wayside or becoming extinct.
Knowing that people like you were coming in made it really exciting because I actually saw the concept of a rock and roll hall of fame taking on validity and credibility. Yes. Really being inducted was a very, very big point for me. And it's something that I'm really proud of for more reasons than the obvious.
That's on my list as well. One, it was an honor to induct kiss into the rock and roll hall of fame, but two, it was, it was that journey that you refer because I was on tour playing guitar and Bruce Springsteen's band in John Landau, the manager of Bruce Springsteen is one of the guys who runs the rock and roll hall of fame.
And we would sit in hotel bar after hotel bar around the world, me telling him like, I'm a kid who loved rock and roll. I'm a grown up who loves rock and roll. And I think the rock and roll hall fame has it all wrong. You're a kid like me playing rock and roll. None of your favorite bands are in there. You don't care about it. And so he said, give me an example. I said, kiss. He rolled his eyes. I'm like, let me explain why and to his credit though he put me in the room.
And he said, get in the room and make your argument. And then we'll see where and of course the, you know, I made my argument with the speech that I gave in the room was not dissimilar to the one that I gave that night.
And since then, the, you know, from rush to Stevie Ray Vaughn, a kiss to Randy Rhodes, you know, there's been a loosening of the screws with regards to that. But kiss, I think was the, was a huge domino to fall. And it was, I'm happy to hear you say it because it really did feel like it was a vindication.
Speaking the thing that kiss fans have felt, people don't remember like what were like, we were real outsiders. And there was danger at junior high and high school to wear that kiss shirt. It was danger. Totally. People were, were subject to bodily harm. Yes. Or there was danger for being a kiss fan. And, you know, if this set, set things right. Give me your, what's your number three? I have to say getting our first gold album, not platinum. Platinum didn't exist when I was growing up. Right.
And you aspired, at least I aspired to a gold album. I saw Elvis Presley had gold albums. Yeah. And then the Beatles and, and to walk that path and to reach that goal was so exciting. And, and so, so much a sense of having succeeded at something that I want to say I dreamed of. But dreaming, dreaming minimizes the effort that went into it. You know, if you can dream something, then you have to figure out how to implement it and make it real.
So to get that first gold album was incredible to which record was it? It was just alive. Okay. So live was the first gold record. Yes. This alive was the first gold album. And interestingly, when we were putting it together, I said to Bill O'Coin, our manager and really fifth member. Bill was as intrinsic and everything in the beginning as any member of the band. I said to him, do you think we'll sell 300,000 copies? And he said more or less, he said, well, that would be nice.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we sold one million at two million. Yeah. Three, and it just kept going, but that first gold album was what a kid from Manhattan and Queens aspired to and dreamed of what came afterwards was icing on the cake, but that gold album meant I had arrived. Where were you when you heard the news? We got our first gold album at NASA Coliseum. Really, at that point, the success and the levels of success came in such fast sequence that it was head turning.
And I said, as I said, one minute, you're putting out an album, and I remember I would say to our road manager backstage before shows, I would always say, how are we doing? And what that was was how are we selling or how's the audience capacity? I remember, you know, we're 80% or 70%. And I remember one night he said, we're sold out. And I was like, wow, and then the next show I went, how are we doing? He said, we're sold out. And I remember being in Dayton, Ohio, I believe.
And the curtain, we had curtains in front of this particular venue. And I remember before we went on, I peaked out and I was just blown away to see this place. Pat. Yeah, in Dayton. Yeah. I'm Tom Morello, you're listening to Maximum Firepower. My guest today is Paul Stanley, the lead singer and frontman of KISS, as we discuss our top 10 favorite moments in history. So next on my list is my first concert, which was the Chicago Stadium 1977, my first ever concert.
And I do remember lining up at Tikatron. I believe was what the soul that takes back then. Tikatron on a very cold Chicago morning. And my ticket bread, as I recounted in the hall of things, we just said a partial view of KISS. That means I got, man, I got there late. And so my seat was behind a pole at the stage right side of the stage.
And Yoraya heap was the opening band. And it was still the most cathartic, exciting, you know, two hours of my life to be in that room with the music that now had built up in me. You know, when I was, I knew every nuance of the of the records to have them sort of come to life and the stuff because the, it's, you can't really overestimate the mystique element because we only heard that there were like the bands that were in my town, every guy had one amplifier.
We heard that there were stacks of amplify. That seemed like an unbelief. There was, there was blood, there was smoke, there was a drum ride. All these were just sort of mythical things you saw in a magazine. And they were happening before me, if they were becoming flesh before my eyes. And it was just like, you know, that was the moment where the Holy Spirit of Rock and Roll entered me. And I was like, well, that's, you know, I'm in for life on that one, man.
I know what you're saying. And I have to credit some degree, if not a large degree, to Bill McCoy. Because Bill said to us at one point, and you're never going to be seen without makeup. And I was like, what? You know, wait a minute. I want to go out and have a great time and recognize. And he was right. It was part of building that mystique that at that time was essential.
The idea of, we got away with things that you could never do today. We, we had people with us who would pull film from cameras. They saw somebody take a picture of us. Yeah. And it really was building this aura and mystique that kiss basically existed as Superman. And that's right. There was no Clark can. That's right. There was no Clark can. What's your next one? The Detroit reunion show at Tiger Stadium, Tiger Stadium. Yeah.
We came back and I certainly had a great amount of trepidation and didn't know how we would be accepted. Or if we would be ridiculed and laughed at, I remember going to the Grammys as a surprise. And we told nobody. And we went on to give the award with two Pock. That's right. And so helped me. I remember being backstage thinking, I hope nobody laughs. Yeah. I hope nobody when we walk out takes it as some sort of joke or takes us as some sort of joke.
And I do remember looking out in the audience and seeing a lot of people that I respected. And it was like a switch suddenly turned and they became kids again. And to see musicians who are in very well respected bands. Suddenly have that winkle in their eyes and their jaw drop. It was, I just got a chill because it was a real moment of putting a lot of doubts to rest. And when we were going to do Tiger Stadium, first of all, we thought Doc was out of his mind.
Doc McGee had come on board as our manager. And Jean and I, he was the only guy we ever even considered. And sure enough when we sat down with him, he just got it. He knew what we were all about. And, but I remember some people going, oh, you know, oh, you're going to do some shows and theaters or you're going to warm up or this. And I go, no, we're playing Tiger Stadium. And I'm like, oh, my God, you know, is this insane?
Yeah. And Doc knew more than I did because that show sold out in 45 minutes. And to walk out on that stage and know that it meant so much to people that they had traveled, blown from halfway around the world. It was this huge responsibility to be kiss, you know, not just play those songs, but be what they remember. And, and quite honestly, what they remembered was inaccurate.
We had to be what they thought they saw and what they thought they heard, which was really interesting because you have to remember that our original shows by today's standards were primitive. There was nothing there, but people remember that compared to everything else, it was a behemoth. That's right. So we had to create the stage that was on par with what they remembered.
And I do remember being out on that stage and feeling before the Kabuki dropped, the Kabuki is the curtain that instead of spreading open, it just drops to the floor. And before the Kabuki dropped, you could feel this just tidal wave of energy from the other side. And it felt this incredible sense of anticipation. And when that curtain dropped, you know, we had to deliver as best as we could. And it was thrilling. It was because it was something people thought was never going to happen.
You know what I mean? And never going to see those four people as the characters again. And I remember the anticipation. Now I had a preview of that. And the next one on my list is drawn from a place called Cole rehearsal in Hollywood, California. I remember. Yes. So I was there. We were having a rate. It was probably 1995, either 94 or 95. And we were at a rage against the machine rehearsal space locked out there.
And I remember one day we were in some kind of sort of dreary band argument or something. And I'm like, well done. I'm like, really shut up for one second. And I thought I heard the song, Come on and Love Me being played in the hall, one of the other rooms. And it sounded like Paul Stanley was singing. I'm like, everybody shut up. So I go out in the hall. And I'm I put my ear to the door. I'll be like, I'll be damned. If that is not Paul Stanley singing, Come on and Love Me.
So I go to the front desk and Tony, the guy at the front desk. And I'm like, Tony, who's in D? And he's like, I can't say I'm like, Oh my gosh. And of course, I lingered around the cold rehearsal studio. It's not there anymore. But it's where rage recorded the evil empire record. It was a very humble rehearsal studio with maybe about six rooms around in a very sort of a bargain basement price. But we always went there. We just loved it felt very comfortable there.
And so I hung out around the pool table to see who's coming out of there. And sure enough, it was, you know, the original four members of kids. And I was just like, wow. And you guys, we had some months where we overlap there. And so it got to see is it it went from zero to what it became a Tiger Stadium. Interestingly, first of all, you guys were phenomenal and also a phenomenally loud. But I do remember that it was a conscious decision for us to rehearse there.
The idea of starting off too big or putting the silver spoon back in people's mouths was only going to hurt us. And whether it was hiring trainers that everybody had to work out. And some people really didn't like it or rehearsing in a studio that was questionable for a band that was. It was humble. It was a very humble rehearsal studio. Yeah, but it's not unlike when Rocky went back to filly to train in his old gym.
I remember it quite well. And I do remember having to adjust somewhat to playing with Asin Peter again. Sure. Sure. We had been playing with Bruce and Eric. And that's a different perspective. Let's play as it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I had to say, wait a minute, we're trying to be the band that was not the band that we just kind of split up. Right. And those were two different animals.
Yeah. So, yeah, that whole period of gearing up, whether it was the Grammys or rehearsing a coal that led to doing Tiger Stadium, it was a rejuvenation for us. And something I never, ever wanted to be a part of or thought about until I kind of started to think about the fact that nobody lives forever. And that we are all fragile creatures. And, you know, if we're going to do this, it makes sense to do it while the four of us are still intact.
Yes. So, it became enticing and then it was just a matter of getting everybody on board, which wasn't as easy as one may think. Yes. That was great to watch that grow at coal. So, give me your number for what's your fifth and final. This may seem anti-climatic, but I do think that when we solidified the lineup, the final lineup with Eric and Tommy was a game changer. That's 20 years ago or so. And there wouldn't be a kiss without them.
And there wouldn't be the camaraderie or the dedication to being kiss, which sadly was lacking for a while, the commitment to being kiss and respecting the legend. And I mean that as a fan, you know, I say to people, I'm not only, you know, in the band, I'm a fan of the band.
I'm not sure. And it was disheartening at some point to see that people have really lost pride in what the band was and what the band had accomplished to see that all renewed and to see people who were proud to be there and play their asses off and or a joy to be around. And I'm here to say there would be no kiss. This band that's going to play stadiums and arenas and headline festivals, it wouldn't exist.
You know, it wouldn't exist. If Tommy and Eric hadn't come in and picked up the flag and run proudly. And I finally won, I will piggyback off that and to sort of decide between two, the one was the runner up was the being able to introduce you guys at the beginning of the farewell tour at the whiskey of small whiskey. Go go small club on the sunset shirt where you would never played before a place where every band is played. Kiss finally played there, you know, a few couple of years ago.
And that was just great to be able to say, you know, you wanted the best you got the best on that stage and have you guys come out and blow the place apart. But the one that I did choose was bringing my kids to see kiss. First time I've done that a number of times, but they became, you know, kiss fans young. There was always that they dressed up as kiss for Halloween. You guys always been very gracious when we've come to the show to make them feel at home.
But to be in the audience with that same kind of feeling of emergent joy and connection to rock and roll. They discovered the band younger than I did, you know, to be singing shouted out loud to the record that I picked up at the grocery store, whatever that now you're singing with your kids.
And connecting the generations and the history of this band and that great music connecting the generations was really pretty awesome and to, you know, have the circle closed to be able to introduce the band, the rock, roll, hall, famed for me who was super fan of the kids and it was the band that made me love rock and roll. And it was the band that made my kids then love rock and roll. And so that connecting those generations was really meaningful.
And so that's why I think it's really a great thing to say it's really palpable even from the stage when you see parents or grandparents when you see two or three generations. Just in this joyous state of sharing with each other and passing down something that's meant so much to them. And I totally understand it, the joy that I've seen in parents faces when they're sharing that experience with their kids. Honestly, that doesn't exist with a lot of bands. That's right.
You know that because it goes beyond music, it's more a snapshot of your life and who you were and what you were going through. And the joy that you felt and to share that look, there's nothing more important than our children. I mean, when we're gone, we live on through them. But yes, I totally understand what you're saying. There's nothing, nothing that I think has the potential to be more important and make us emotive.
You know, then what we share with our children. And if they embrace it like we did, oh my gosh, I mean, how amazing. It's pretty special. Well, Paul, thank you so much. One, thank you so much for decades of excellent kiss rocking. And thanks for doing this interview. It's always a pleasure to see you talking with you and safe travels on the continuing kiss tour. And I hope to run to you again in person soon. You betcha and back at you in Roman and the whole family.
I'll let them know lots of love. I'm Tom Morello. You've been listening to maximum firepower. So great having my guest Paul Stanley on. Until next time, brothers and sisters. Shout it out loud. Take it easy, but take it. Let's fall off justice, Grandma. This has been Tom Morello's Maximum Firepower. Here's this episode again. Or listen to past shows right now on the serious thux-amp hop. Search Maximum Firepower.