Jerry Cantrell

I'm Tom Morello, host of Maximum Firepower. A weekly podcast focusing on the music, the moments, and the movements that have shaped my world view and left an indelible mark on me as an artist and activist. I'm Tom Morello, this is Maximum Firepower. It's my great honor to have my longtime friend Jerry Cantrell as my guest today, Jerry Hower You, sir. I'm good, Tom Jerry, you can't beat him.

It's lovely. All right, so Jerry has a brand new record out which I just rocked to, which is pretty damn fantastic, dude. Like your record sounds great. It's called Brighton. We'll talk about some of the more specifics of it in a minute.

Let's go back to when we first became acquainted. And this is my memory. I was a fan of Alison Chains. I saw you guys before we met. I saw you open up for extreme at a club somewhere in Orange County, extreme of course the Nuno Betancourt band with more than words and whatnot. I was a big fan of Nuno's playing.

And they were, you know, they were like sort of like the last wave of 80s kind of metal, right? Do you remember that show? Because I remember like my girlfriend and I were the only ones up front, like rocking hard to Alison Chains while everybody else was waiting for more than words. I don't remember that specific show, but I do remember on average maybe two to four people in the audience.

I was a friend for half the audience. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, and tell more than words hit. And that was in the middle of that tour. And then it kind of changed for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's funny. I just I just was hanging with Nuno at the Rolling Stones a couple of weeks ago. Awesome. Awesome.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that it's always lovely when the three of us in a room. But to you in here, two of my favorite guitar players. But I remember that night very clearly because it did feel like kind of like a passing of the torch, but nobody else knew it. It's like when the first mammals were walking around the feet of the dinosaurs, you know, in the dinosaurs didn't didn't quite know it didn't quite know it yet. But I, but I spotted that and greatly.

It was interesting for us because that was basically we we'd done a bunch of opening spots just here in their piecemeal. So we would come to town. Hey, we need it open or suit. You got a band. Yeah, we'll do it. Okay. Yeah. But extreme was our first first tour. And that was we had made facelip of people really didn't know about it that much. And so it was interesting watching those guys go through the process of like I said, we played to nobody. They had to do nobody and we knew to know.

Yeah, I walked through that tour when more than words hit and it was interesting watching that process because not too long after that, we would have that same process happened to us in the middle of class of the Titans for the tour. It was like warfare was like Lord of the flies, man, like how much how much stuff can you get hit with it in like a two minute period on say, right, just raining down because you were because you were opening for tell say who was on clash of the

tie and everybody's like, who the hell is this, especially that crowd. And there was one particular time, I think it was red rocks and you know that you played that venue. So you know it seats go up at such an angle that if you catch some air, it's definitely making. Go for 30 minutes or 25 minutes, however long we played it was just raining debris and we would throw stuff back and we'd jump the barricade and we'd spit and kick right back and and battled the

crowds are about half of it. And it was kind of fun doing that. And then the box hit and then it shifted and you could feel that shift. Yeah, seeing it in other people. Yeah, I've seen this happen before. Yeah, radio and MTV very much matter. You could like turn a switch like that was pretty crazy. So so man, man, the box had already hit when we kind of first met, which was on

Lala, pollution 1993 rage against the machine was the opening act of the day. We went on first on the main stage. I think you guys in primus were playing at the end of the night. But I do remember like it was like sort of our first time like on a big tour. We had a tour in a van. We had maybe open for public enemy at like colleges and stuff. This is the first time like going on a national tour and playing. Well, nobody was there when we started the day at 130 PM

whatever. But you guys gave us a box. It was like somebody had gone to the dollar store and bought everything. It was like a box of toys and gum and little little horns and yo-yos and stuff.

Yeah, and a really sweet note, you know, and so it's like the first day and I forget where the first shows that someone the Pacific Northwest, I think, of the tour and it really made me feel welcome. Like I was looking through all this funny fun stuff. And I believe I thank you later. But anyway, so that was my I was very grateful from going to watch you guys open for extreme with nobody there to now your headlining.

The ball of blues the tour, which was like the dominant tour and the dominant word in the rock and roll universe at that time. So I'm grateful for that box of yo-yos. Looking back on that tour, that was one of the funnest tours I've ever been a part of. And we still all the friendships we made fish. And the only band we didn't really hang with was maybe arrested development. They were kind of on their own. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, and we were all all over each other stages and stuff.

Yeah, babes and toy land too. And I remember I remember Nick Terzo getting me your guys is demo tape and like this is the new man like check him out. What do you think? And I'm like, okay, this is serious. Yeah, yeah, that was so much fun. Also, I also remember during that tour, land really had a shine for you. Yeah, and he wanted to play guitar more. And he was kind of intimidated because he didn't play that much guitar, but he but he really was turned on by how you played guitar.

Yeah, it was a little hurt by that. Yeah, you're like, what am I, shopliver? Like like like dude, look to your left. Look to your left. I'm right here. But I remember that and you gave him a spark to play and learn how to play guitar and write more song. Right on. Yeah, yeah, well, I loved him. I mean, we had a lot. He and I had a lot of laughs on that tour, man.

And he was sort of a daily argument of who was more metal him or me and we'd like sort of it would be part metal trivia and parts just sort of posturing, but a lot of I really remember that very, very, very fondly. A lot of good times on that tour, a lot of good times on that tour. And what people don't remember is like like rage played first like in the afternoon on the main stage, but tool was on the side stage.

So like rage and tool, we were done by like two 30 in the afternoon and at the rest of the day to either drive around on golf carts or you know or watch you guys play every day, which was awesome. Yeah, so you have a you have a new album out I would like you to tell me and all of our varied listeners about that new record.

Yeah, it's called Brighton and toward the end of the Rainier fog tour, which kind of wrapped in September of 19. I was kind of thinking about I think it's time to do another record again. You know, we've done three records with Alice were well established. We will we welcome William into the band. He's earned his spot. You know, the bands in a good place.

I didn't really want to confuse things for until we got that, you know, settled in. I don't really have any desire to that's always been my first love you. You understand what I mean. Yeah, it's good having outlets and everybody in this band has has had projects where they worked outside the band, but the primary focus is the band. So, yeah, it just seemed like the time was right. So I spent that winter demoing and a good buddy Tyler Bates and my long time engineer Paul figure.

And Joe Barisi, of course, those three guys I got together and they said they would help me bring this thing in. And we started thinking about who to call to plan. So everybody kind of brought somebody in Tyler invited Gil Sharon in who would I played with on a soundtrack movie for John Wick or whatever. And Gil knew wasn't a band with Greg right Dylan, your escape plans. I got to those guys there Tyler introduced me to Michael Rosan and yeah, they had no that can be a steel guitar player.

Yeah, I was on keys. Paul figure. I introduced me to Vincent Jones, great key player and Joe breezy brought in a Boreal junior. So I called up Duff. He was down. It was really cool mix of people, super organic. It's like friends and friends of friends. Yeah, yeah. And the record sounds like it sounds great.

It starts with a tune called a tone, which is just a jam. But one of the things that people like Alison James fans know it, but more sort of perhaps a more casual listener may not recognize like how you Jerry Cantrell is the secret weapon in Alison Chains because of your singing.

You know, like all of those harmonies and the big hooks throughout the whole catalog. It's two voices. You know what I mean? Like it's two voices and one of those voices is yours. You know, in the same way like the edge in you too is kind of like that guy's got a great guitar player, but he's also in all the hooks.

And without that voice, it just doesn't sound the same, but it's really beautiful like the and there's the other ones that spoke to me a siren song. I thought was really beautiful. That's like a really gorgeous tune and black hearts and evil done also like really great jam. So check that out if you have not checked it out. It's really great record. So right on.

Thank you, man. There's a short list of people that when you ask them to do like a charity show or a benefit show or thing like that. They just kind of say, yeah, sure. And you are one of those guys. So let me say I really I do appreciate that. And so we have rock stages large and small for good causes. But perhaps one of the most memorable was when we played at Sing Sing Prison. Only went to prison. We went to prison. We went to prison together. And I only as visitors.

Well, there were a number. There are number of us that were concerned that once we went through those gates like that we were going to get back out again for different reasons. Me for political reasons and Perry Farrell for other reasons. Well, Wayne Kramer and Spencer time. That's right. That's right. So so we went to it was it was Perry Farrell.

It was I don't think slash was on that one was it was Wayne Kramer. There were a number of us playing. But anyway. So we were playing. And it's like you're playing in front of an audience of some people who have been in jail for. There's been prison for 30 years and things in prison is really like a bunch of young guys looking at 30 plus right. Yeah, I had of them. I had of them. And but I remember that the prison.

It looks like this old kind of gothic prison. It's not one of those new kind of super max that looks a little bit like an iPhone store like it says ancient kind of British castle kind of super scary. So we go in and we're playing the songs. And then one song that we regularly would cover when you were playing with us was a song called jailbreak. Yeah.

And I remember that I remember I think there was some concern about us playing. Yeah, there was a good. I think there was a good deal of concern in a lot of different quarters. And so what I do remember is like Jerry murders jailbreak like you could be if thin Lizzie ever like needs. You could be the singer of thin like you have fantastic thin Lizzie boy. He is murder murders jailbreak.

So I remember like I'm playing rhythm guitar on it. And some of the inmates were not that familiar with the thin Lizzie song. But when they heard you know tonight there's going to be a like the looks on their faces were like. Oh my gosh. Like is this okay? Like people were like. What's going to happen? What are your memories of that thing?

Sing prison. There's quite a few and like just the reality of when you walk through those doors. You know you can leave. But still when that door shuts behind you, you get a little little feeling of what that is. Yeah, I mean, I can only imagine but it's just an interesting interesting thing that we have like kind of a disposable thing on our society that's more based on just throwing people away.

Rather than trying to trying to get some redemption out of them because life is a journey of redemption and sometimes major mistakes. And I'm a firm believer in if somebody has made the effort to pay for the mistake that I have a road to redemption. You know, and we were playing wish you were here. And that line, you know, did you trade a walk on part of the wall for a lead role in a cage. I didn't think about it. When I sang that song and I'm looking at those guys, I cracked.

Yeah, like, oh my god, you know, that was a really heavy moment. Yeah, I was really, I was really honored to go with you guys and to be part of brother Wayne's, you know, great work and trying to bring some light into that sort of a situation for these guys and coming out. You know, yeah, I remember there was one guy he, you know, we did sort of like a meet and greet kind of thing at the end. And it was like I he's like, I've been here 22 years and this was my best afternoon.

You know, and it was yeah, and but out of that day came great good. Wayne Kramer was inspired to start an organization called jail guitar doors. Billy Bragg had one in the UK. And Billy, I think was there on that day as well, maybe. And anyway, it was like that. Wayne who has spent time in prison and is a recovering addict and like that day at Wayne must have been 50, 59, 60 years old at the time and began a new career as someone who he goes.

And I think they're now in hundreds of prisons across the US. That's right. That's right. Where they use instruments and music as rehabilitation tools. And it definitely it definitely affects the recidivism rate. And they even have like at LA County here for like the teens and whatnot.

They have like songwriting workshops and ways to sort of express yourself outside of so the more traditional ones. I'm Tom Morello. You're listening to maximum firepower. My guest today is Alison Chains guitarist Jerry Cantrell.

So speaking of redemption, like I wasn't in a band with him, but I get asked a lot about Lane. And so if you feel comfortable about it, talking about Lane, Mike, our buddy Chris Cornell and like sort of like your own journey with addiction and recovery for people listening out there who may be somewhere on that spectrum.

And I think that as a person who has suffered from some of those same things that took a lot of our fellows down, you know, it's possible to work through that stuff. And I feel really lucky to have had the experience. I don't regret it. I don't regret that we're getting the life for the craziness or the indulgence of the rock and roll lifestyle because that all appealed to me.

I was a good kid. I wasn't a shit kid, you know what I mean? And like, but but the whole rock and roll ethos man that really appealed to me. And it's all stuff, you know, you read all that stuff, you know, and she's to focus on the positive on the time spent with them, the relationships that I had with those guys, the music that we made together and the human beings that they were. It's unfortunate.

The headline always is that. Yeah, how they died. This is not them. This little. Yeah, I mean, we all die. And so, and of course, it would be nice if if the folks that I said stuck around water, but try to leave the now and not dwell on the past too much. And I'm very honored to have known all of those fine folks and musicians.

If you have any sort of words of advice, because I remember I've known you throughout your journey, you know, and there were some nights in Hollywood, I'm like, I'm not sure he's going to be okay.

And spending that's spending years and years with you when you're on the other side of it. And you know, for people who may be somewhere in that struggle who sort of see like there's different whether it's issues of addiction or depression or whatever that there's somewhere in it. And like, what was your light at the end of the tunnel?

What would you say to somebody who might be struggling listening to this right now? Well, I mean, I think the main thing is just to know that it's okay to say that you can't handle it anymore and to raise your hand and surrender like, okay, yeah, I'm done. I'm cooked here. I need some help.

That's the hardest thing for any of us. I'm sure you experienced that yourself too. The hardest thing to do is ask for help yourself. And I think a lot of part of achieving sobriety and maintaining sobriety is keeping yourself open to be. And to be of help to somebody in me because you know how hard it is to make those first initial steps. And if you're a guy that can stick around. I mean for me July next year will be 19 years for me.

Wow. That's a long time since I had a drink or a drug on purpose. I've had a few on accident. Yeah, every once in a while you get a hot one, but order a diet coke and you get a jack and coke. Right. Right. But you know, it's possible. Part of the life is experience. And I wouldn't I wouldn't at the same time tell anybody not to to take the path that you want to take, you know, wherever it is.

But if you're finding your you're in a place you can't get out of it. It seems to be a dead end road that you can't get out yourself and ask somebody for help. Yeah. Well, great. Thank you. That's a yeah, because I've really I've really noticed that like you're you're a sort of a shining example of someone who does service and.

So congratulations on 19 years. That's awesome. That's awesome. I want to talk a little bit about a particular show that I enjoyed greatly. It was the first show of the reconstituted Allison chains. I believe that show was at the Roxy. And I went that you know, friends with you guys for a long time. And Allison changes playing the Roxy with a new singer. And of course I'm like, frankly, I'm like, I can't imagine that being okay. Like I'm like, I just can't imagine it.

And I was there with I forget it was me and maybe it was like a bunch of like Hollywood rock, you know, dude, it was maybe some of the James guys and flea. And we all sat there with like our jaws on the ground at how fucking great it was like I couldn't but I told every I stood on a street corner afterwards just telling people just how great it was so so so tell me what that not just what that night was like.

And what did the reconstituting Allison chains with William and having it be such a redemptive experience. Well, I think it's I think it's related to what we were just talking about and like there are many times in your life where you can restart, you know, I mean, you can reassess story. If you're still walking and breathing man, the story ain't over, you know, I mean, and you know, for you, you got a even more personal connection to it because you know lane and newer friends with.

So you know, and being a musician, you later would experience that sort of a situation yourself. And so you can always pick up and start again and I think what works is following what worked in the past, you just put one foot in front of the other. If you're cool with it and the guys are cool with it, it's going to be fine.

It's going to be a little bit of struggle. It's going to take time for people to get used to it. William, such a talented guy. We already had the experience of touring on degradation trip. And I was like, well, I'm going to go to the island of when you were looking at me saying, I don't know.

And I made a record about it. I did, I did give my shit together. And you know, I thought in a show nicer to talking about the idea of maybe just doing some shows, you know, just celebrating the music and and maybe doing a tour and taking it around and with no other really thought than that.

Benefit concert for the tsunami relief as well as right artist all around the world. And we wanted to be a part of that. We thought this is a perfect way to do it. So we invited a bunch of friends to be a part of that. And that's where we cracked the ice as a band of like, you know, going through that cathartic experience and heavy experience of not standing up there with your bro.

Well, hey, I'm still standing here with my bros, you know, and this is our stuff. And it was just kind of a natural progression when we started to have those conversations. I'm like, we should bring William. And I think I think we jam with Vinnie from sponge and William. I was there. Yeah, yeah.

Vinnie is a good friend of ours too. We had done a project with Mike and Sean and Cristogamo, Spies for Darwin or whatever. And so we jam with Vinnie and then William came in and Sean's like, what do you want to do? And he's like, let's do love hate love. So we did love hate love and Sean's like, all right. Wow. Yes.

And then Mike look each other and I knew of course, because I'd already played with William, you know, and we'd also had the benefit of doing a lot of that vocal work together. That's kind of. Yeah, that lane and I created and William and I have continued and on this record, you know, I was joined by Greg Pichato actually, a lingerer escape planet and kind of similar thing. Like working in a pilot co pilot situation, you know, hopefully, when I like writing for that because I love harmony.

Yeah, well, awesome. I mean, it is, it is a great gift to the world, you know, I'm saying so well done. And I think there is a, there is a really good lesson that like wherever you are, you can start a new, you know, and that's. Yeah, that is. And I'm going to fail, man, that's a failure is a good thing. That's how you learn. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So let's talk as as a fellow acts slinger.

Like how is your guitar playing? How do you think about the guitar and how is your guitar playing evolved from when you began? Well, like you, we know how important the riff is, right? Sure, sure. Sure. Yes. Yeah. The most is important and the riff is king, but I think that I've kind of gone through time and progression. You really start appreciating or appreciating the song, you know, the song that the riff exists in, you know, and.

I'm still, I don't know about you, but I have, I've never reached a point where I'm like, okay, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. What am I doing? You know, and I mean, like thinking it out and like striking out blindly in the darkness. And that's part of the challenge of it. Like what the hell am I going to come up with next? Can I, can I even do this anymore? Sure. We this anymore.

So now we're some good songs back there. Maybe we should just leave, leave it alone, but right something in there that's still pushing me to, to want to be creative. And I love that. I love that aspect of it. But I love the, I've heard so many musicians talk about it from the Beatles to Bruce Springsteen to, you know, another palliores and, and like in the early days, how it was just like this big long jam band and stuff.

I mean, I kind of had the epiphany that the studio can be an instrument as well, you know. And sometimes less is more, you know, right, right. And, you know, those things are really cool. I love exploring those types of parts of it. And of course, the other guitar guitar player at heart, I like to stand in front of a stand in front of the stack and let it rip.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, you can hear it on bright as if if you're just listening now, Jerry Cantrell has a great new record out called Brighton. So check it out. A lot of great jams on it. And then lastly, this is something we do occasionally on the show is like giving your Mount Rushmore of either you can choose Mount Rushmore of Riffs or Mount Rushmore of guitarist.

Okay. So that's we got four guys. Yeah, I can yeah, and it can be you could, you know, just off the top of your head. Don't over labor the thinking just. Yeah, I only Gilmore. Yep. Head field. Okay. And Malcolm Young. Awesome. That is a that is a that's a solid solid four pack. All right. Then just just give me four riffs and four riffs and one of them's yours.

Yeah, four riffs and one is mine. Yeah, I probably go with men on the box. The one that matters. Yeah, yeah, unshamed. That's where I learned drop detuning. Yeah, yeah, that was amazing for whom the bell toals. Okay. Love that. That just said. So bad ass and back in black. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Jerry, thank you very much for your time. It's lovely to see you brother and

you are you going to are you touring this at all? Are you is this a? Sure. Yeah, you know, it's been a weird year and we've got out of navigate all this. Yes, yes, people getting out and doing it. And I'm really keeping an eye and asking a lot of questions. Yes, yes. How are you doing this? You know, how how do we do this now? And so I aired on the side of probably extra safety and didn't book any shows until next year. So yeah, I'm going to do shows from

may supporting Brighton, Europe and in the summer. And we may have some other shows next year. It's awesome. Awesome. Well, lovely to see you, my friend. Lots of love. Love to you. And congratulations on the new record. And I hopefully I'll see you out there. Thanks. Until next time. Take it easy, but take it. This has been Tom Morello's Maximum Firepower. Here this episode again or listen to past shows right now on the series, box and app. Search Maximum Firepower.