The Toll of Incarceration

are you feeling to that? You're pretty young? You're pretty young. You know you're you're almost fifty is still young? Jesus Christ. I just push your push hun there. That is good to you. Listen, man, I'm good to me. You know what I'm doing wrong, crack, don't care what it is. It's black dot crap. Man. They still think I'm sick. I'll tell you that forty and now forty one is definitely good to me, So I know that if this feels good. They say forty, you grow up in your thirties.

You're growing up. Forty you grown, But fifty you don't give no more. You just say whatever. You want to say, and that's it. People don't like it. Oh well so, but I always been like that, So it ain't gonna be much different for me. Maybe you never know, it might be a little different just atle bit. If I get any more unhinged than not giving the funding saying what the funk I want to say, it ain't gonna

work out too good. Well, we got some friends that definitely say what they want to say, and they are and I think they're a little different. But I think about Core Masks, Barry and Hazel Dukes. Those are two women. That's that's a whole nother level of that. That's the whole level level. Don't give a fuck us. They don't give a funk about your feelings, grown grown women, grown women. Oh yeah, that's that's adult, grown women. And we've got

they're talking exactly what they feel. It ain't no filter and none of that. Yeah. Yeah, man, So the world is still the world. There's still so much happening in the world. I was looking online, um earlier this week and watching like how many different cases are happening around the country with like people, um, you know, being killed, people tagging us. Did you hear about this. Did you

hear about that? Though. I just feel like I'm constantly my head just spends around in this society because it's just so much happening at once. It is, it really is, man, you know, like you said, the cases, the violence pandemic, that this is just so much. Man, you just need to take time to breathe. Like the last couple of days, I've been just taking time to just think, you know, just the exhale and just think, because you gotta take it in. Man. It's like being in the information error.

Information is coming so fast and it's just overloads man. So I know. And and this is me as an adult man who is pretty much seasoned and those things, so I know how much this is affecting these young kids that they don't even know, you know, they don't have the wisdom and experience that somebody that's older has. So man, I'm just I'm praying for our babies. Man,

I'm just trying to do whatever we can. We just gotta make it a little better for them and a little easier for them, making it better for the little kids. And you know, speaking of that, uh, one one good thing that did happen just a few days ago. Um is that in the Jamarion Robinson case in Atlanta where he was shot by police officers seventies six times. Man, I mean between Gerald Griggs, the head of the n double a CP and also an attorney in Atlanta, Queen

your NaSTA, how uh Kimberly Latrice Jones. These are folks that have been working on this case and standing with Ja Marion's family for oh for five years. This happened five years ago. He was shot seventy six times, and finally there has been an indictment of two officers. Um. And you know, just seeing uh miss Maria Robinson, Jamarrion's mother, just watching her exhale to say that she fought the good fight and never gave up on behalf of her son.

It was so powerful, so powerful. And I tell you, people don't realize how having those leaders that are named to be there every step and away with you like

there's nothing that I know. Families that look at me and say, yo, we don't know how we would have done it if people didn't continue to show up and to be there, And it's just it's a powerful, powerful moment for the movement to see that after five years there's act really an indictment, because by now most of the time we've received the news that there won't be an indictment. Yeah, and shout out to Jamario's mother. I met her a couple of years ago. Man, She is

beautiful woman, you know. You know, as much as we we feel jaded and the system has failed most of the times, I have to say that we are slowly starting to see a shift an acknowledgement. At least there's an acknowledgement that people are being killed. You know, before

there wasn't even acknowledgement, you know, so slowly. We still got to get Brianna to We still need justice for Brianna Taylor, man, and we still need justice for so many different other people, so many different I can't even name. But you know, just in this case, we just got to be able to say, you know, we fought a good fight and we actually got some good news at this point. So shut out everyone. And I said her her name wrong, it's actually Monteria, yes, so just correct that.

But yeah, shout out to everybody here and to your point, and indictment is a slither, a slither that's in the direction of justice to actually have to get convictions, then you gotta get them sent to prison, and that's a lot of work. So the folks who've been on the ground, this gives them the energy where the real fight begins. And that brings me to my thought of the day. I try my best to use these moments to think of things that are also on the minds of those

people who are listening. Right. So, you know, while yes, we have a show that covers a lot of political topics, a lot of community projects, social justice issues, but we also are humans. And that's what Street Politicians was always about, being able to cover culture and politics at one time. And so last night I was having a night's conversation with our sister, do Wanna Tom's and who is UM in Atlanta? I mean, excuse me, lives in Birmingham, Alabama.

She Um is an incredible organizer, She's an incredible businesswoman. She is UM just like so so many things, all things, dope, you don't know do Wanna Thompson please, she's been on our show, folks, researchers. She's a political consultant. UM, very successful black woman. UM. And there were other black women at the table. We were all just talking about you know, uh, It really came up because we were talking about meat crossing and becoming an a member of Alpha Cappa Alpha

Sorority Incorporated. Because you gotta say all that and make sure that you say it right. Um. And so as we were talking about that, we're talking about Kappa men, Alpha men, and just talking about why we as black women, successful black women are single, so many of us. And there were men at the table, and older man in particular, who started to say that we as women have lots,

we as successful women have too many demands. And I'm wondering if everybody else feels that the reason why so many of them of us are single is because our expectations are too high. All night I was thinking, are expects Can your expectations be too high for yourself? Well, I mean that's it's it's based on who you are, right,

it's based on what you think. They might not be too hot for you in your mind, but if they're actually not being met, right, if you if you can't find something that fits your expectations, then you might have to rethink your expectation, right. I mean if you look at y'all want this, and I want this, and you're going everywhere eation, but I don't know what it is because I don't know what everybody expectation is. I just

think they don't have realistic expectations. I think, you know, I think in relationships, and I say this all the time that women fall in love with the fantasy of relationship, not the reality of it, right because in their mind is they watching on TV and then they've got their their perspectives of what love is supposed to be by their favorite show in the movie where he grabs her hand, he kisses her, he picks her up, and he does all these things, and there's there's none of this term

when you don't see none of this stuff. It's just like people who watch anything else. They watch the sport and they say, yo, I want to be Michael Jordan, But they don't never watch him practicing. They don't talk about when he got cut from the team. They don't see when he broke his ankle. They don't see when his brother used to whip his ass in basketball, be daying dump on it. They don't see none of those things. He had to stay in there the gym all day.

Women have the same mentality when it comes to relationships. They a lot of them, a lot of them, all of them. I won't say, no, there's no absolute. There are a lot of women who want all of the fun and the glitz and the love and the romance and all of the good times. They don't want nothing that comes with the the bad times that come with it. So you see, I agree with that because I know a lot of women who are willing to struggle and go through not not so much struggle, but the growing

pains of a relationship. But they still have certain things that are just not acceptable. And when you say you know, well, I guess this kind of contradicts my whole point because when you talk about most of us getting these fantasies from TV, my fantasy comes from my father and how good he is to my mother, how amazing he is as a man. But I guess the contradiction is that she went through a lot to get to the place

that they are at today. And I'm sure he would say that, hey, she wasn't just a cup of iced tea when he get hurt. But the problem is the thing is, you're looking at the relationship right and you you you're looking at the end all you and you're looking at where we are now right, And all the time, all the ship that she dealt with that you're saying that you won't dealt with, you won't deal with right now that she dealt with, you just didn't know what she dealt with it, right. And that's what a lot

of women do. Right. A lot of women say, I'm not gonna deal with this, I'm not going through this. This is my expectation of man. Gotta be this, you gotta do that, you gotta do this right. And then other women be like, yeah, yeah, and they ain't deal with men who ain't doing none of that ship. They're going through it. And when you see them, they look like they're smiling, they're happy, and they're dealing with a man that ain't doing to doing none of the ship

you're talking about. They get into a certain place, they're going through ups and downs, they're going through so much ship. Every day. They're ready to break up, they're ready to cry, they're leaving. They this they didn't broke it, They don't went through all the type of ship that the average person doesn't know about their relationship. But in in in to the public, everybody ain't gonna deal with this type of man. I'm not gonna let my man do this.

I don't want a man that doesn't do this. I don't everybody has these things and it's and it's not really so, but it's okay. So what my real question that what I was thinking about is like, so we shouldn't have standards or expectations, but yet men have expectations and they have standards because there's certain things that we as women cannot get away with. But what I'm trying to tell you is this, right, you have to have

a realistic standard. Right If a man has a standard about a woman and he dates ten women, he can't find that standard, and another woman he takes twenty, if all his whole life he was trying to find a certain standard of a woman and he don't find it,

then that that that expectation is not realistic. Right now, if a woman is dating all these men, you've been you forty and you fifty, and you dating man and you're like, we just can't do I want a man have done this and that and you and you ain't got him at fifty And not saying he don't exist, I'm just saying that the probability of what you're looking for being not realistic. It's higher if because I don't think men have expectations about women that they don't find.

Most men have expectations, right, and they find a woman and said, oh, that's the one I want. Good, this is what I'm looking for. The women change, the woman's expectations change, or the woman starts to want more or feel like it's not so most, for the most part, men don't have. It's bigger problem. It's because because we because we as women come doubt, we come pretty much put together. A lot of us come financially stable. We come cooking cleaning. That's not true. You're not doing that.

That's not a lot of a lot of that's not true. That's not true. And they're all women who do come the way that I'm talking to understand the need to cook, clean. But you having those conversations, right, You having no conversations with them, right. If you have conversations with the men that they probably did, they'll probably have a completely different understand that this person you're talking about everything in everybody's

mind near the perfect mate for somebody else. Everybody can tell you I do this this and now I'm dope this and I don't think it's nobody that you will act and say, yo, you think you compatible for a relationship, And then I'm like, nah, I don't do this. I don't do this. I'm not this type of person. To my man, nobody's gonna say that. So you can have a conversation with a bunch of women that look dope and they've got all these things and you don't know

what you think, and the women are lying. I'm no, I'm just it's not really lying their perceptions of themselves in the reality of who they are to other people. That's it's completely different. Yeah, Okay, well listen, we gotta move on with the show. But I think it's time for us to circle back to some more conversations with some powerful women. Who are they are the cook is the cleanest, and the and some and some form of bread winners. And yet still in all we are still single,

and it's too many of us that's single. And I could tell you men, tell you who can tell you? While you sing? You Kevin Samuels, We bring Samuels. Here's how I'm gonna deal with Kevin Samuels. And I'm really sad that you would make him an example listen, listen, let me say something. Let me just say you already said it, because already said it, that you would make him an example of a man who can tell me

why I'm not, why I'm single. Because when I listened to Kevin Samuel, which I don't often, but the ones or twice that I did. Yeah, even like we say all the time, a broken clock can be right twice a day, but he makes me feel diminished and devalued. It's nothing about what it's nothing about what he's saying that makes me feel encouraged and understand that they are

things that I could do better. Instead, he tries to basically strip women of their self esteem and then somehow another we're supposed to look at that as a way to rebuild. I'm very I am very very upsad suggest him as an example. What I would say is this right, I definitely agree with you. I think that his delivery, in in his motive in which he delivers is in his information, is just off right. It's totally off killed.

It's just totally off kill to like, totally off but like you said, broken clap a lot of time, disrespectful and harmful it is. And that's why I said, oh, off means disrespectful, off needs, off needs. You could get up and say I was off today like today. But what I'm trying to tell you is this if if if you come to me right and you say yo, which five five, and I say it's tender, motherfucker, fucker's wrong with you don't know what the fund is tending?

And I start cursing at you. The delivery of this message just completely off. No reason for me to be cursed. It's wrong, it's disrespectful. What I'm trying to tell you is I wouldn't deliver the message away. But five us five is ten, right. So what I'm trying to say is it depends on it. Because everybody gains information differently. There's a lot of and I want you to acknowledge

this right, There are a lot of women. His his biggest fan base is probably woman who go there to listen to this information and they go on his page to talk to him. So the way you feel, and I agree with you, I wouldn't. You couldn't talk to me this way. I want to allow you talk to my mother, my sister. I'm just wildn't allowed. I wouldn't

talk to a women that way. But unfortunately, they are women who are receiving this information and they go there for the information after watching him talk to them a bunch of ways like that, And these are not and these are not women who are not well to do. They're not women who are ignorant. I've seen him have debates, and I've seen him have arguments and go back and forth with strong black women and debate. But again, sometimes

you go down but here. But here's my position on it is that I wouldn't give him five minutes of a platform, and I'm sure he wouldn't give me a platform either, So his name never comes out of my mouth. I'm never gonna suggest to anybody that they go and listen to him as a way to get information about what's happening in their lives. Under no circumstances would he be in my mind of a suggestion. Pretty much not Actually, because you didn't. You didn't see that it was a

joke for the beginning when I said it. But it's not funny. That's why I'm saying, it's not like Kevin said it was. People listen to me. I can get information from anyone. You can learn a lot from sometimes I'm hard and how I speak to my child, and sometimes i'm I'm I'm hard and what I say to myself, But I'm saying that I'm not making a brand and of diminishing people and making them feel like they are being destroyed and then built again in some weird, twisted way.

So for me, I passed on the brother. But for others that may like him and he's their cup of tea. You know, I'm not the type of person that's going to tell you not to go where you think you need to go to drink the type of water that you need so you could be whole. Yeah, you know,

and and and and that's that all that. LaToya Bond also with her husband um Uh James Bond, who is our there our family they actually are, have created a brand called a family Bond, and they spent a lot of time discussing and delivering information about how to stay married, how to keep your significant other, um you know, sort of excited if you will, um. You know, what to do as a man to make your wife feel loved, you know, how to to honor your king, honor your man.

And I would much rather to get my information from them, and I would to go to see my boy James, My boy James Bond. Make sure you check out his page and family Van and the dadi is also shout out to Dadish the brand. Shout out to La Toya, We love you, keep doing what you do. So now let's get into our guests, because we've been talking um,

but we have two important individuals that's coming up. And just for folks who are listening and watching, we pre taped these interviews, so you'll hear uh some time frames that sound a little different from the day that we're actually in. But we were trying to get information, especially from our first guest, Tiffany Lofting, about what's happening with Julius Jones, the young man who is on death row

UM for a crime that he did not commit. Uh. So we're gonna Bringiffany on right now to talk to us about Julius, and then we're gonna hear from another powerful sister once again. We have another one of our friends were I wouldn't even say friends, our sister, our comrade, conflicts, our partners and justice. Tiffany Dina Lofton. She is the immediate past National Director of the n double A CP

youth in college. She's also one of our biggest advisors that until Freedom, and she's the senior advisor at Grassroots Law Projects. Welcome to the show. Finally, Dina, I don't even call it Tiffany. I call it Dina. What's going on? I can't believe you haven't been on our show. That's like crazy, Like I thought you were one of the first. We had all of Stephen Green, Leslie Redman, we had all of our um young leading organizes on At one point, I had no idea that you have been with us.

But I guess today is the right time. Today is the day. Today is the day. Slow and steady, we've been working out here. So I'm just honor to be on the show. And even if I'm not on the show, I with y'all in person, so and I've met I've done better at that. And I think that's what it is. You with us so much that we assume that you on the show. You know what I'm saying, Like, Tiffany been there three I thought you three times. I was

with you on the studio. I just wasn't on the screen, but here we got here, Like Tiffany is the show you are the show. You are the work. Thank you, sir, thank you, thank you. You know as much as we love you and we we we you know, we could do a little small talk all the time. Right now, we have serious business and you're here to give us some updates, you know about brother Julius and um what's

what's currently going on? And I've here there's a lot of little things going you know, some negative, someonere positive as of late. So give us some updates. So I'm gonna start with this top headline. Elections are so damn important, y'all. Elections are so damn important. So, uh, today is Thursday. We're on Monday. I flew from Washington, d C. To Oklahoma City anticipating Julius's clemency hearing that was going to

take place at nine am. When I landed around nine pm on that Monday, I got my phone was blowing up telling me that the coming to hearing had been postponed, and I was trying to figure out why. In two thousand and fifteen, the state of Oklahoma halted all of

its executions. It is the It is one of the deadliest states, and I think it's the second, but it's one of the deadliest states in um when it comes to the death penalty, there were a couple of botched executions that took place in What that means is and so I need people to breathe. This is really how you talk about. What that means is that they issued two executions through lethal injection, but the cocktail of the lethal injection and didn't work, and so people suffered before

they died. So Oklahoma stopped the executions in Julius is one of seven people. Julius Jones is one of seven people who is now scheduled on death row to be executed between now, which was supposed to be today, with the first being John, a gentleman named John Grant, until March of next year. There are seven people on that list in that roster. The state of Oklahoma is now saying we're just going to continue these executions. Nothing has happened since until now. They're just saying we want to

continue them. But they went to these seven people on death row and said to them, if we can't do the legal injection because it doesn't work, how else do you want to be killed? M hm wow. Six out of the seven of them said, I you you're not going to make me choose my way to commit suicide, and it is actually against my religious beliefs to commit suicide. So I'm not giving you that that that that easy

way out. On September three, team the pardoner Parole Board, who are people appointed by the governor and the governor is selected by the people. They passed a decision, a recommendation to the governor basically saying, keep Julius alive with the possibility of parole, don't kill him. We have evidence

that that proves that he could be innocent. Now, the partner of roleboard is not a court or jury, it's just the pardner of parole Board, so only power that the only power that they have is to issue a recommendation to the governor. The governor looked at that recommendation and said, I'm not going to make this decision. Y'all go back and have an entire hearing and do it again. There's a couple of reasons why he could have did that.

My personal belief is he's been too much of a punk to make a decision when he could easily at any moment in time, sign a piece of paper stopping this entire process and freeing Julius and making sure he's home for the holidays. The governor has not done that yet. He keeps putting the blame and trying to redirect it. So the pardner of Parole Board can now have that responsibility. He does not want to make that decision. So a lot of stuff has happened since then that we can

talk about later. But where we're at right now, it's because of because of the protest that those seven people took. Excuse me, six out of the seven people took saying don't kill me. I don't want to be killed. You better figure this out. There was a lawsuit on the state of Oklahoma that went to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court said, go ahead and continue with the executions. Since they don't since they didn't find another way. They didn't didn't tell us how else they want to be killed,

go ahead and do lethal injection. Then we were worried about that, and so then we found out that the Tenth Circuit, because they got challenged, the Tenth Circuit, which is the regional court of that area that which Oklahoma is a part of, said no, no, no, on all y'all acting crazy over there in Oklahoma. No execution. Stop it.

This has been a this has been a game, and it's been really hard as somebody who's organized was supporting the local members on the ground, supporting the family, both Antoinette Jones and uh Mom I called Mama Jones, but Madeline Jones, Mama Jones, and their brother and their dad, and especially Julius who's been on death watch for over a week listening to these different reports come in. At any point in time, I am I gonna get killed. I'm not gonna ge killed. You're gonna kill me, I'm

not gonna kill me. It's been an emotional rold coaster for the family, for the community, and especially for Julius. Where we're at right now is because that Tenth Circuit said don't kill nobody. The Attorney General he has now tried to challenge that decision of the Tenth Circuit court and we are waiting for that response because of that challenge from the Attorney General General O'Connor. Today was October there was a gentleman by the name of John Grant

was scheduled to be executed today. He is on pause. Julius Jones. He has a set execution day for November eighteen because that Ted Circuit said no one more executions. November eighteenth has been canceled. That is a victory, but it's not the long term victory. We want Julius to be free. Right if the November eighteenth is anceled, he

stays in prison for the rest of his life. The only two opportunities we have right now to say Julius and get him home is one again, the general has excuse me, the governor has to sign the permission for him to be released, not just on his own accord, but his own board. His partner broad board said this is the right thing to do, so he should sign that and go with their recommendation. Or Julius has a scheduled hearing, the clemency hearing that got rescheduled on November one,

which is this coming Monday. We need that clemency hearing to happen so that Julius can tell his story for the first time, so that people can so that we can hear what his alibi, what he was at home with his family when the murder happened. We have to be able to have the witnesses and the information and the stuff that was not shared the first time twenty one years ago, when Julius had his first case and his attorneys didn't have any experience running a capital murder

case or dealing with anybody on death row. We are calling for November one to happen. For that hearing to take place, we need a Governor's Pardner in Parole Board to happen. It is not up to the Partner in Parole Board if that's going to happen in November one. It's up to the executive director his name is Tom Bates, and except to the General Council of the Partner in Parole Board. So we need those two solutions to happen

right now. We need that hearing on Monday, and we need the governor to take action immediately so that Julius can come home and so that the Paul that the Paul, excuse me, Paul Howell's family, who was the man who was killed, his family can can be at ease and rest and recovery, because we are praying for his family to what happened to his family, what happened to him

is not okay. But we also don't want them to kill another innocent man and call that justice just because we need the governor, and we need the Partner Parole Board to do the right thing. But but I'm under the understanding that Mr. Howell's family does not support the support they be. They do not support Julius being released. They do not support that. No, they do not accurate, Yes, ma'am.

That is they do not they believe they believe that even with all the evidence, all the information that has released over the last several years, but certainly most recently, all the work that has happened in the state of Oklahoma, even knowing because I I've actually watched uh information get out there about the person that is actually what that that is alleged to be um for um Mr Howell's murder.

Even with all of that, the family is saying they still think Julius should be held and executed or just held. It's I've watched two interviews Oklahoma's media, They've had two interviews. I have watched them to makea say that they want him to be held and executed. That is what I've

heard latest from the Hower family. Yes, it's just so unfortunate, man, just being being a victim of the injustice system, just understanding how they get it wrong, just under down how you can be falsely accused and sitting in just several time for a crime that you didn't commit. Right to know that there's a brother and and he's not the only brother. And throughout history we found out that people sitting on death row should have never been on even

in prison. And to see that we still have a justice system that when there is even a shred or doubt that someone committed a crime, is willing to put someone to death? Is so is mind? Boy gun to me? Like it doesn't if someone else admits to a crime that you're about to take someone's life for that in itself should at least say we're not taking this, you know. And and and the fact that that is not the process is the fact that that doesn't immediately happen to me.

It's just like who created these lords? Who? What? You know? They said that the lords is supposed to before the people, by the people. What people sat down and came up with this process and said that this made sense. Some very sick people my sidentists. I've learned a lot, so I've been doing organizing work for the last twelve years this I've worked on a lot of cases to free people who were about to be executed. I've never been this close to the family, and I've spoken to Julius

um there. There are two sick things that have come up for me in this case. One is I don't understand why if somebody in this case, Julius Jones. I don't understand why if Julius Jones had a hearing that was scheduled so that he could testify, so that they can sort out the evidence and make a recommendation to the governor, I don't understand why then the warden of Oklahoma State Penitentiary where he is currently sitting, would put him on death watch before his hearing took place. It's

mind boggling to me. When you are about to be on death watch, they ask you the most sickening questions, what do you want your last meal to be? Who do you want to hold your hand when you do it? Who do you want to witness the execution? Psychologically what that can do to somebody? And then they lock you underneath the jail in a little cold cell and they

feed you food through the door. But you have you have a fifty possibility because you just got a recommendation to the governor to keep you alive, So why they would put you on death watch to begin with is sticking to me and to your point, my son, about policies and who makes these rules. That was the warden's decision,

and the warden is not elected. Then I'm trying to understand why we even do the death penalty to begin with, right, why is that even still a thing that states that people that that systems we we know, we know that there are people who have been executed who were innocent, and we still do it. We know that there are other ways. We have talked about restorative justice in this injustice system and and that executing people actually doesn't stop crying.

So there is a whole entire conversation we need to have. And I and I have learned so much and been challenged so much. I have lost sleep, I've had nightmares. I've been praying very hard for Julius. This is not weak because we didn't do this ship can I cut start? We didn't do this, But the people who made these decisions, to your point, my son, are some cruel, sick and devilish people. How you can't even do that to me is like I don't understand who I don't even understand

how you're human. I don't get it. I don't understand. It's torture and it's disgusting, and it happens to our people the most. So unbelievable, you asked me, man, I've been watching this case, you know, and watching you you know, people are real close to me or you know, this is one of his close friends, and just see that that is taken, you know, and it's not even this is not even somebody and I'm physically no, but just watching it through y'all and just just having a heart

as a human being. It's like, damn, this man's life is on the verge of being taken for something that more than likely, you know, there is evidence that says that he didn't do that's right, and since he's been incarcerated, so he went to jail when he was nineteen, he's forty one. Now at this point, he's been in jail longer than he's been alive for something that he didn't do and wasn't even act. And so to take his

life that means he lived nineteen years. Because it's like we're talking about taking his life in the execution sense, right, but to take his life and to lock him up. He's been in there since he was nineteen and what and so so one. He's been held wrong right like that. He wasn't supposed to be in the begin with. His his future has been taken from him. And if he has any small chance of a future after this, which is depending on the work that we all do, so quick, uh,

call to action to folks. We need folks to go visit free Julius Jones dot com. That is where folks can make phone calls to the people asking how can I help how can I help save this black man. We need folks to go visit free Julius Jones dot com so they can make phone calls not only to the governor but to the executive director in that General Council that I was talking about. That window was very very very very small we had between now and Monday.

And if uh we do win that, or to me, if we do not win that and the Attorney General wins his case by contesting what the tent circuit did, then they will proceed with the execution. M hm. So this is not like we got all the options are still on the table, but the window that we have is a lot smaller, right, we have between now and

November eighteen. Now we've got between now and whenever that Attorney General response comes back, and we don't know when that is that can come out tonight, right um, and so we have that smaller window. But I I do I want folks to go to free Julius Jones dot com. I want folks to follow the grassrootslot project. I want to shout out until freedom followed the support the job had been doing, both in front of the scenes and behind the scenes. Folks don't understan and how we always organized.

We'll be getting stuff done. But even on your social media page and the work that y'all have been doing a phone called y'all been making have helped make that useful, have helped push the envelopes so that the governor can pay attention because the thing that we know go ahead.

It's interesting that you say that because I've sat by, and you know, people all why Toneck mallory always have something to say, Well, why doesn't So sometimes I just sit by and I said, okay, let me just you know, play my role, be in the background, do the things, find the scenes. But I realized that if I didn't say anything on social media and rev up our audience, if you will, the people who listen to and support us.

It would just be days that go by and Julius would need to be mentioned other than Class Fools law page. You know. Of course, Shaun King has talked about him, um, you know several times, and you see some of the same people out there advocating. But the folks who claimed that we all are uh overwhelming, and we are co opting, and we are all of these things, they have not done one thing to bring attention to this situation and

to try to fight to save Julius's lives. And the reason why they can't do that is because they spend so much time focused on trying to tear other people down that they're not even they don't have any goal.

Because to me, Julius Jones is probably one of the most important issues of our time right not because friends and family that we know have come to us, but no, we know the facts, we understand the story, and yet there are many days that Julius is not even being mentioned by some of these same people who have so much to say about us. And I recently saw you online saying that one you don't know everything. And two,

you shouldn't spend your life talking about other people. And I know that the work sort of at times, all of the energy, the negative energy especially can get you down, especially while you're also working with someone who's on death

row dealing with his family. It's a lie or Rolland for those people who don't know, we keep mentioning him, but we haven't said or Rolland who is our friend who's also um a coach within the n B a UM he works very closely in terms of training um UH athletes, not just in the NBA, the NFL, and he also has a youth organization where he trains young people as well. And he's our brother. UM. You know, he said to me one day I called and he said, in his heart, he believes that julius life is going

to be saved. And I want to believe that also. But if for some reason, this system does not do what it is supposed to do, you should just know, Tiffany, that the world will acknowledge eventually how hard you went for Julius and how much um it became your own story, like you know, not just something you're working on, but I see you and your own leadership developing and you growing, and so I just want to make sure to give you your flowers on street politicians and make sure you

know that you're loved and appreciate it. And that means so much to be coming from y'all as people that two things that you said, one that means so much to me because everybody that we don't know can talk about us, but what really matters the people that do know us. Yeah, and I also know that if at any point I am stepping out of line, which has happened before, but the people that love me and the people that got my back are the ones that I

can go to who will tell me the truth. And so to even have and this is not to reverence you in my son in any different way, right, but but to have people that I look up to and people who I feel like I've done this work genuinely even though they get dragged, even though they get talked about. And folks won't always recognize this, but to mecause most of the time nine nine percent of the time y'all get asked to come and do this work. You don't just go on everybody's business and show up and say

I'm gonna help you and save the world people. At the same thing for Sean King, people called Sean to say, hey, can you help with the Julius Jones case. This wasn't him popping up, and I wanted to help. He actually tried to avoid it because he knows that people talk

cracked about him all the time. And I know that that struggle as a leader is hard, and so it I have been nervous right to say, Okay, well people, what the people gonna say, But at the end of the day, exactly what you said to me, because it doesn't matter what people say. I'm doing God's work. God asked me to be here. God put me here. I've been praying since I left the end of a a CP to do work that really really matter to me.

And this is the work that really really matters. And it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, because anybody else gonna fly to Oklahoma and yell at the governor, organize a protest. Talked to Julius on the phone, who also believes that he will be saved. Julius doesn't believe he's going to die. I spoken to Julius. Julius says, listen, I believe and I have prayed that I'm going to be here, but that this is this is about me,

and God is using me for a bigger cause. And if Julius, if Julius on death brow can say that to me, then I have no other choice but to do the work. So that means a lot of sense. Thank you for my flowers. I love you. That's right, Roses, blu care Roses. Well, Tiffany, it was you know, it's a pleasure to have you is always a pleasure. Like she said, the work you're doing is definitely God's work. I gotta get you your guard's work hat because you gotta wear it, you know. But um, we love you, man,

continue to fight. We we're praying for Julius. We're fighting for Julius, and like you said, we believe that God is gonna do what he does man, and he would definitely be free and he would be back where he's supposed to be. Man. So let's just from God's is, from our mouth to God's is. Yeah. Man, alright, Peece, Tiffany, thank you, keep thank you love you too. So you

know that interview with Tiffany is really really powerful. But we need to bring our next guests on as well, and so I think we can I really give a summation if you will, of both interviews at the end, if that's okay with you, because you know, I think I'm like part producer of street politicians and we don't roll your eyes listen if that's what you want to do with Shout out to Tiffany for coming up here

with the information and just being dope anyway. Yeah. Cool, So we'll talk about both interviews after right now, we've got our next guests, a friend, another friend another day. As usual, we have a great friend joining us today. Uh. This is it's a story that I feel extremely connected to because I knew uh this young sister before she um ended up being incarcerated. Actually we hung out in the streets in New York. We was out in the street partying and doing it up, yeah, some years ago.

And um, she has an incredible story. And you know, we love to highlight people who have turned their pain, their trauma, their tragedies into purpose and passion. Um and certainly Topeka Sam has done that. Topeka K Sam to be exact, she has certainly turned um a a story that some would think, where do you go from here? You know, how could we ever even make a comeback

from um where she's been, But she certainly has. She's the founder and CEO of Ladies of Hope Ministries, which is a facility that really manages and cares for and helps to advocate for and as a re entry program for women who are formally incarcerated. UM. And you know, there are many people who have found Ladies of Hope to be a beacon a light for what we do

to support women who have been incarcerated. You know, as you know, we talk about all the time that that is one industry and one area that is under resourced and in fact, in many places is non existent. But um, you know, Topeka Sam has has started a program there, and I think we could just go ahead and bring our sister on and let her talk about her story. So welcome to street politicians, Uh, Topeka k Sam. Hey, y'all, thank you so much to make a deep Mallory and Lennon.

I don't know if there's a middle initial, okay, but you don't use it, so you just so okay, So thank you so much for having me on. I'm super excited. Thank you. So let's get into Peka. First of all, First of all, you're everywhere, and I think everybody knows your story, but they don't write just like folks say, I'm everywhere and people think they know my story. And it's funny because this morning I got a call from

an elder who I've known forever. She's from the same town that my mom is from, UM in Alabama, and she's like, I had no idea that your son's father was murdered. And I had no idea. And I'm like, this lady has been knowing me since I was like a young teenager, and yet still she doesn't know these things.

She said she heard me on Jamal Hills podcast while driving late night in the rain, and she said she asked a young person to direct her to something that she could listen to that would, you know, keep her going on the ride. And this was just a few nights ago, and she said she listened to this podcast and heard all of this new information about me. So people don't always know your story, even though you think

that you told it over and over again. So we've got to ask you on street politicians to tell your story, UM, to make sure that our listeners know and understand who you are, where you come from I and from New York. You knew that. But I grew up in Long Island in Manorville. My parents were franchise business owners. They owned a cargo franchise in Brooklyn over twenty something years and two restaurants in Hall, and they grew up in Harlem

and the Bronx. They wanted a different life for us, so we were the only black family in our neighborhood. We came to the city every weekend where I learned how to play piano at um Harlem School the Arts. So I was there every weekend and then I would go to Brooklyn and then come back and then go right back out to him. Now, so that was my life, me and my brothers. And when it was time for me to go to college, obviously that was going to

be my trajectory. I chose an HPCU because, to be frank, you know, I wanted to be around other kids that were black and like me, and I wanted to be in community with my people because I have been around all white people all the time, and though my friends and loved them, if I just wanted something different. And so I went to Baltimore and with to Morgan State university, and I experienced life very differently there. Um it was another culture shock because you know, I come from one

place to another. I get to Baltimore and though super excited because now I'm finally in community. Um. You know, often I say my swag was a little different, and so I was, you know, kind of isolated. I was told like, you know, you talked like your wife where you think you're better than us, so you're pretty, to be dark, skinning, all these things that I never heard before. And UM, so through that, you know, I found myself really just trying to find a sense of connectness, of belonging.

I really wasn't dating before I went to college. My father was very strict. UM, and I started dating. I started dating guys who were from the city, were from the street, and eventually they were guys selling drugs. And I thought that I could do it better because I thought I was smarter, and I found myself engaged in that lifestyle. And this went on for years and through that, UM, I was also I'll speed it up to being uh

maybe thirty five. Around thirty five years old, I was division chairperson for Amtrak for New York in d C. UM. I had one business that I wanted to open another business, and I had stopped being engaged in that lifestyle priorly about seven years prior, and I received a phone call out of the blue, and UM, I was like, well, damn, I can do this real quick. Connect some people make this money to start this next business, and I'm out this one last run. And that one last run ended

up being a federal drug sting operation. And so I found myself in Virginia, UM, in a county gym, and I thought I would bail out, no big deal. It was like I said, it was a sting operation. There were no drugs. I was added into a superseding indictment. UM, I was set up and so that was that, but that's not gonna happen. And UM, the judge was like, when I thought I was gonna bail out, you know, you're a drug queen pin and the threat to society,

No bail. And I began to really understand at that point that the legal system, um was very different than what I thought prior to that. And so now I'm in this county jail in Virginia and I'm like, all right, well now I'm gonna here. I'm not gonna bail out. I need to begin to become a part of this new community I'm a part of. And while they're um selfishly, I started going to n A and a A classes because I was not able to be out of myself. I was separated as a federal detainee and accounty jail,

and so they had to keep us separated. So I was in a cell. The twenty one twenty three, I was a day by myself, and so I would go out to go to these programs. And so when I went to the n A class, I asked the sisters, I was like, you know, why did you use drugs? Because I had an idea that people use drugs because they wanted to. I didn't have anyone in my family that struggled with substance mishoes at the time. I did not know UM the impacts that it had because I

wasn't connected in that way and UM. One of the sisters told me that her father had been raping her and gave her heroin and told her to take the heroin so the pain would go away. And another young lady said that the only time she was able to spend time with her mother was when they smoke cracked together, and it was all of these difference worries and testimonies. And I remember being spiritually convicted. UM I was, I

was raising the church. I knew who God was, and I um said, well, you know what, I'm gonna go ahead and plead guilty. And I did, and I went to federal prison. How long? How long were you in federal prison? I end up spending three years in federal prison. UM. I was in five different jails, two county jails, three

federal prisons. UM. I came home in t But while I was inside, you know, whether I was in the county jail where it was poor black, poor white women, UM, you know, low levels of education, no access to any resources. When I went to federal prison, it was more like doctors, lawyers, senators, judges,

women who had you know, high affluence, high levels of education. UM, different types of opportunities, but it was still the same underlying issues sexual trauma, violence, mental health issues, lack of resources and opportunity. And so while I was there, you know, God just imparted in my life that I needed to start the order with Station and gave me the name of the organization and told me what I needed to do, and so I came home in and just began to

hit the ground and learn. So you know, I'm always you know, coming from a different background, Like you said, you came from more fluent, you know, a bringing and going into prison was it like a real shot because I know most people that I talked to that come from in fluent background, they just think everybody that's in jail supposed to be in jail did worse people in the world. They just commit crimes and they don't want

to hear nothing about it. Where you really like shocked to see that these are just everyday people that are down on their luck, that had hard time. Some of them shouldn't even be here, Like did this is where you shocked by what you saw on the system? Absolutely? I um to your point. I had the biases. I thought it was a certain type of person that went to prison, right, a certain type of person that was

in there. You know, I would watch cops locked up abroad and all these things, and you would see a type. Um until I became that tight, right, and while I was there, and I remember, um, after I was sentence, I was on that plane they call it con air, the transport plane. And I remember saying to myself, then the last flight I was on was a first class like the Hawaii And here I am now handcuffed and shackles um to assister who had never been on a plane at all. And that way, mant that was too deep.

We gotta go back to that. You said, you the last time you were on a plane, it was to Hawaii first class. You were on vacation or you know, going to Vaca, Hawaii. And then this time the next time you're on the plane's shackle to a woman who had never been on a plane at all. Yeah, m hmm it was. And I said in that very moment, I said, you know it didn't matter, you know what what mode of transportation we go in our lives. That

we're more connected than we think we are. And though I I like, I kept myself away for so long because even when I had first got arrested in my friends were like, You're not like them, don't talk to them. You know, we're gonna do all of that right that when I was like, wait a minute, I am them. That is me. You know, I just had a different level of you know, education or opportunity really afforded by my family. UM, but I was no different and it really allowed me to connect to people in a very

different way. Let me ask you this question to go backwards because you you and I know you probably are so used to telling this story. But again, most people don't know. When you say you were a part of a sting operation, explained to us what that means. You were called by individuals who were agents, like they were already. What was the details of that? So what happened was, Um, I got called back, Like I said, it was like seven years, seven years later because I had stopped something

drugs for a while. Um, it was a whole situation that happened. And that's a whole other story. We don't have enough time. But I decided when I got this call seven years later because I knew them, it was my connect Um. I dealt with them before they were you know, Mexican, they were in the cartel and I was like, all right, well these are the same people. It was never a problem for you know, things are good.

This is cool. Um. But you know, you know, especially when you're connected spiritually, even when you don't realize you are, that something just doesn't seem right. But nonetheless, um, I end up meeting with them and something I was supposed to meet with them originally in Baltimore. I flew out to California to have a face to me his conversation, and they told me to meet this person in Virginia. And I was like, I'm not going to Virginia, Like

there's no need for me to go to Virginia. And I kind of prolonged it, but one of my co deferends was like, look, let's just go get this done. D da da da da. You know, I'll drive you out there. So we went and the journey out there laughed now because it was like all the signs in the world like don't God was like stopped and I remember him and I leave it from the city hall um,

And we left and we're driving down. Usually even when I drove down to Baltimore on my own, I would just be able to get a straight you know, straight shot, short trip, no big deal. But every hour I had to go to the battom. So I kept making him stop so I can go to the bathroom. And I was like, something isn't right. My spirit was like it's not right. We keep I fall asleep, I wake up

to some smoke and I'm like, what's going on. We pull over and find some kind of like shop auto shop, and the guy said that the transmission was and I said to him, this is a sign we need to turn around, and he like, no, this is a sign. It's like we just suit me to Scar need to give me my money back. Well I'm like all right. So then I'm like something is it right? Then we end up going to um rent a car right across the street from the place, and we get there to

where we're supposed to meet these people. Now, the person that we were supposed to meet wasn't there. Some other person came up and let me take you back. So before that, this homeboy of mine, he was like, yo, you need to go see these like you know, he's saying a low us. You know, the Spanish people that tell you about all of that. Now, I was Christian and I knew at the time, but I decided to

do what he said. And the guy who I spoke to told me that because I asked about this situation because I have been out for so long, so I was asking me. He's like, no, everybody around you is good, but if you go to a table and meet somebody with a New York Baseball cap on one, that's the police leave. Do you know When I got to that restaurant and that man walked in, it was a man with a New York baseball cap. He sat down at the table. I literally got anauseous. I got up, I

went to the bathroom. I had like three cell phones, like throwing the chips out, clear the things in the bathroom. I come back to the table and I told my homeboy, let's go. We walk out. As soon as we walk out, and it's probably about twenty cops that just swarmed us, told us to get on the ground and all that, and I just kind of looked up and was like to see, like I knew this right. So then I

get there. They take us to this little place and they separate us in these two little rooms and we're there and then the fact he comes over and he's like, you know, such as such wants to talk to you. So of course red flag goes up, and I'm like, they don't let you talk to each other, So like what are they trying to do? You know? And he's like, um, yo, tell them what they want to know, and I'm like, you need to get a little He's like, yo, that's

your connect. I don't even know what them people, but I was like, listen, you need to get a lawyer. I'm gonna do the same, and I just completely shut down. We get to the county jail and I remember being, you know, they put you in this little whole thing south and the women, and with the women of course the men with the men. So we're starting, we're starting to make me have an opportunity to make our phone calls.

And he goes out to the pay phone and I'm just sitting down and the young girl, she's probably like eighteen, she says to me, yo, that's your cody. And I look. She's like, girl, you finished. And I laughed because he

was at the pay phone. That dude, like she could hear him, but he was sick something, tall, big dude and he's sitting on a pay phone prime So she sh that and she was like, your finnis right, like girl, you know, you know, and she could hear him talking to whoever he was talking to Ottabla, and so yeah, that's what happened. So that's part of that. It's how I got to that place. But the thing is when you know they set you up, so a conspiracy, which

is what it was. Um, it's one it has to be one or two, two or more people having to talk about this thing, right. But because it wasn't considered entrapments though it was, um, they put it in the fourth circuit, which is in the federal prison in the federal government. Fourth circuit is like Virginia, Maryland, that area, which is one of the harshest circuits. Um. The reason why it was really juris channel entrapments because had my case been out of Baltimore, likely I wouldn't have gotten

anye jail time because there were no drugs in the case. Um. But because they did it in Virginia, they did it purposely because they knew in Virginia I would definitely be prosecuted in Richmond, Virginia. Well, damn, that's crazy. So what did your parents have to say? But how did your family feel? Well? When I was in of course during arrayment, Well, when I called everybody and they came down and you know, bring deeds to houses and money and whatever to bail

me out, you know, of course everybody was shocked. All my friends, all my family. They had no idea what I was doing. I mean I had like living different lifestyles. I had my work life, I had my my friends from college life, I had this street life. And you know, I didn't realize how separate I kept everything until it was sentencing day and some of my friends that I had known for twenty years never met. My parents didn't know I had brothers. Um like, new nothing about me personally,

yet I knew everything about everyone else. So they were very shocked, of course disappointed. Um Like, you know, my mother remember when they had to do the PSR, which is a pre sentence report where they call and ask about you and your family. They asked my mother if I was on drugs, and my mother said, if she was, I would understand. Wow wow wow wow. Well, I mean, I know, reliving all of that is not what you probably were expecting today because you have so much more

um that we can with that we will cover. But I think it's just important for people to understand how you can get wrapped up so quickly in these situations. And you know, you say, seven years you you try to change your life. God gave you new opportunities, you know, new spaces and places, but sometimes we think we can slide backwards and then look, you know, look, look what happens because at that point, great, Yeah. So I tell

people all the time. I remember when I was in the streets and I had one out of town, A lady pulled me to the side, never forget it. And I was out of town, hustler and it was in Charlottesville, m And the lady pulled me to the side and said, what are you doing here? And I said what she said, get out of here now, you don't belong here. I never went back. That's the last day of hustle in my life. I followed the signs and everybody that I

know out there. Two of my friends got killed out there, and one of them in serving life in that same town. Jesus always followed signs. Man, So how did what? What was the process for you coming home? So I was originally sentenced to a hundred and thirty months, so that's ten years ten months because it was a mandatory minium. In my case, I was convicted of conspiracy to south as a cocaine or more. Because that was the conversation. And again when you talk about conspiracy, like you know,

real real talk. It was I was going to purchase fifty key loads and they were like, oh, well, we'll give you thirty more key loads, you know, basically on the on the hook, right, so with no money. So obviously if a person is like, we're gonna give you more for no money, if you're gonna take it right a wrong. But all that was was them to do it in order for them to get the mandatory minimum up right. So that's why they did that, in order

to get me in a different sentence in category. So you know, you learn about all these things afterwards, but that's what it was. So when I was pleading guilty, I left my plea open so that I could appeal in my case with a downward archer, which is called the safety valve. And in the safety valve, it's five different criterias that you have to meet, like you can't have a criminal category under one, you have to fully tell the truth about yourself, um, and it's the three

other things involved. But after that, I requested it downward departure at sentencing. Obviously, they denied my downward departure, which is why I ended up getting the one thirty. Fast forward about a year later, I'm in federal prison and I'm you know, telling my lawyer like, listen, I want us to appeal, Like there has to be a way that we can do this. I remember reading the law, going to law library and all that. It was a motion called thirty two, which is a motion for a sentence. Uh,

it's called imposition of sentence. So through the booker variants, which allows them to take into consideration like other things, your your history, you know where you're your upbringing, you know any family, all these things. Um, you can put

an emotion to do that. So I prayed, was fast thing doing all these things, and I wrote the letter to the judge and the lawyer put in the motion, and on March fiveteen, which is the day before my birthday, I got a call the offense and I was told that my sentence was reduced from a hundred and thirty months to sixty five months. At that time, I qualified for all what's what they call a drug program, and it's our DAP, And our DAP was the only program in the federal sy that you can take to give

you a year off your sentence. Now I didn't know, you know, again, by the grace of God, because I didn't have any drug history, but I didn't know how I qualified. But when they told me that I would get a year off, I was like, signed me up, send me anywhere, and they end up sending me to Greenville, Illinois. So I took that program, and at that time a law passed called all Drugs all Drugs minus two and with that, I end up getting another fifteen months off

my sentence. So I end up getting called into the office and reading the Illinois and I was told I was going home in two weeks, and that's how it happened. I end up being released. UM and I knew at that point. I said, God has something greater for me, like right, and I was like, I know this is what it is, So let me follow and let me be obedient. Let me do everything that God said for me to do. And that's exactly what I've done. And so I mean, I watched you when you came home.

You really didn't have the program yet, but you were working to um, get secure housing, to secure build then if you will, you could have Ladies of Hope ministries operate from You got right in and started trying to, you know, figure out how to make it work. And

you know, I think the thing that's interesting. We say it all the time, but it definitely um needs to be stated in this case that we have the skill set even when we use it for things that are not good, it's really about taking those same skills and applying it to things that are actually positive. We can

make big things happen. I look at Jamil T. Davis, who you know, UM and worked with, and just looking at how innovative Jamilla is and how she's able to help so many of other people, UM, you know, make money and and and and figure out ways to be innovative in terms of their ideas, things they want to do. So this is these are these are things that it's not even Jamilla's wheelhouse, but she still can get in and help you figure out how to make things happen

because that's the type of brain that she has. She just didn't know that it needed to be used for the right reasons. And also the type of people around us, the company we keep because our company tells us to do this or that, and sometimes we follow and don't realize that God has his own plan for our lives. So Ladies of Hope Ministries is your plan. But you had to go through all of these things to end

up in this place. And I feel like that in my own life, I've had to go through such pain and trauma in order to end up in the place where I am today. And so I'm proud of you first of all, because I know the story and have watched you hustling. You didn't take no for an answer. People try to shut you down, shut you out, and you kept pushing. So tell us now, Ladies of Hope, tell us what it is and where are you trying to take it? How can we all help to get

it there? Absolutely well, thank you so much, um So, Ladies of Hope Ministries mission, we say it's epic to end poverty and incarceration of women and girls globally, and we do that through two buckets. That's direct service and sustainability and policy and advocacy. What we know is we can't change laws, We can't change you know, conditions for people until our basic human rights are met, which is saint housing, equitable opportunity for career UM and also food,

healthy food. And so we do Hope House, which is our first level of safe housing for women and girls UM impacted by any type of state violence. So we've expanded from not just women who have been impacted by incarceration, but women who have been impacted by any type of violence.

And so we have a house in the Bronx, we have one in New Orleans, and we're developing our first twenty unit apartment building in Miami and South Florida for women and girls over women over the age of fifty five who are returning into South Florida because the numbers in Florida are crazy and we're gonna be scaling that right now. We're working in seven different cities to provide housing and build affordable housing developments and the Caribbean Trinidad

specifically right now. Then we have our Angel Food Project, which partners with insta card, Whole Foods and other supermarkets where we give our fresh bags of food seven days a week, three d and sixty five days. We've been doing that for over five years now, every since I've been home, I've been doing that. Before I started LAUM

became a program of that UM. Our Pathways for Equity program is a partnership with Virgin Unite where we partner with corporations to give growth focused positions to women who are impacted by these systems in corporate America. UM changing with diversity inclusion looks like not just race, religion, gender identity,

but also lived experience. And so we partnered with you know, people from Chanel to now Virgin Orbit, which is super exciting because we can provide jobs for women UM in aerospace and so that's really really a great again, a great career path. And then on our policy advocacy work, we have our Faces and Women in Prison program, which is a global Speakers Bureau where we're trained over fifty women UM on how to use their voice in order to share their experiences to change policy but also become

public speakers. Has paid public speakers because so often we're asked to share our stories, but we're not actually compensated for it. And so to your point earlier, we relive this trauma UM all the time and they're not giving anything. But you know, someone crying and you know, thank you for your story. But then it doesn't you know, equal anything, and people have childcare and taken over work UM and they need to be compensated. They are an expert in

the space, and so that's what we've done. That program UM is also fund to by Chanelle, our for Justice for Foundation and the NFL. And then we have our Epic Ambassadors work, which is our policy and advocacy where we trained women on how to draft and right legislation, partner with local elected officials to get bills moved, and

then get them registered as lobbyists in their estate. And so we're super excited about that because we feel that if you live the particular experience, you need to leave the policies to change that. We know what needs to happen. And again, you know, for me doing work around the country passing legislation, what I learned there's a lot of times they have people going to what they call legislative advocacy days and again taking off of work, not getting paid.

But you know, as a consultant on a lot of projects, I also saw where we were retaining lobby firms so tan twenty dollars a month, and then that's not actually going to the people who are actually doing the lobby and so I said, well, there's an opportunity there. How do we actually get people registered as lobbyists in order for them to get paid as lobbyists to do the

work that they were doing for free. As lobbyists. UM so, that's really exciting because now we're building this community of women and girls from around the country that are doing that work. Um so. And then our last program is our health equity work where we just recently partnered with optim and train fifty women to be birth douelers UM to go into prisons the help women who are pregnant, but also in community for women who cannot afford um a doula but would like one as an alternative to

you know, maternal support. And now, so that's the work that we do. UM Like I said, right now we're stilling to seven different cities in the Caribbean, so you know, support from you know, the community like they look like us. I mean, you know, to be frank, most of our funding come from you know, philanthropy, large philanthropists, corporate dollars, but mostly white. And you know when it's so disheartening to me is that incarceration and poverty disproportionately impacts people

and communities of color. Yet we don't actually invest in the change in our own community. And so for me, you know, to be able to really connect to people that UM have the ability to push right our work to see opportunities for women and girls to change the outcomes for our families is critical and I really would like to see more support from people of color in that.

So tell us, tell us where we can find you, as he can, tell us your website, all your social media's where people can invest because I hate the word donate. Invest in what you're doing, because what you're doing is something that people need to invest in, especially our people. We need to see it as mandatory. You know, I hate that. You know that people have expertise and come with this this will and this energy to do good

things for our community, and we don't support it. So I just wanted to let everybody know how they can do that for you. Thank you so much. So the website is the th h E l o h M dot org so for the ladys, the whole ministryes dot org um we're on all social media platforms as at the l o h M. My social media platforms are at Topeka k sam um and then you know, for us and to your point, also my song like for me.

You know what I realized most recently was, you know, I created a great nonprofit organization that is doing incredible work in four years. Right, Um, we've grown tremendously. We've been able to do things that people haven't been able to do as a nonprofit for twenty years. But while I I realized that I was here touting about equity,

that I wasn't even creating equity for myself. That when as a nonprofit, you know founder that at any time, if my board or someone decides that I need not to be in this seat, that then they can say to pick up you know, thank you for your service. And that's it. And I have no legacy for my family. You know, I cannot create general generational wealth for my family for my sixth niece and it's the nephew using

for my godchildren and all of that. And so what I decided to do was to start to launch, you know, for profit companies that actually help in order for me to build that well that will then I'll be able to fund my own nonprofit and be able to one day write my own five million dollar check to my

own organization in order for sustainability. So with that, I started Epic Financial, which is gonna be launched fully in January, first quarter of next year, and that's a fintech platform that will actually give checking savings a counts to people who are presently incarcerated with financial literacy so when they get out, they actually have an account set up and don't have to worry about the barriers and banking and the barriers of all those things. UM, so super excited

about that as well. And then you know, really partnering with not a lot of other non profits and other organizations for them to also get their community embedded in the platform that will also help to support our people, um in community. So well, that's the things, but that's the work. That's the work. Man. We really appreciate you. We we know that we're taking up a lot of your time, and we truly appreciate you. You know, the work that you do. You know, we we do work together.

You know, we always see each other and we were always rooting for you man, continue to do the work. Me being formally incarcerated and always inspired just seeing the work that you do, you know, it gives me a little extra energy knowing that you know, we can come from wherever we come from and go through whatever we go through and still be successful and make sure that we pay it forward so that somebody's coming from where we come from, don't have to go through We went through. Sure, sure,

thank you. I mean, I don't think there's much more than needs to be said. I'm happy that you came on today. Um. You know Cat Trigg, our director extraordinaire, really he loves Sopeica loves Topeka, and she kept saying hey, and we were like, yep, no, absolutely, let's get you on. Thank you for coming, and thank you for telling your story and digging into those deep places because you know, certainly when we talk about our trauma, it's not easy.

You know, it's it's a lot of people kind of think it's just like a normal day, but it's not, because it brings up memories that come into your mind that are not good memories, you know. But um, telling your story will help someone else, hopefully a younger person or even a personal older person who's going through the same thing. Right now, we didn't get to talk about

you being pardoned. Um, but I think there isn't there's a different show that we need to do to talk about the Trump era, if you will, and you being part I didn't buy Trump what that means. And also, um, you and I have had some difficult conversations about the need to work with the the Trump administration to help get people released and and and how to make that happen while still fighting against the um un the very very dangerous if you will, uh tone of that administration.

So we want to bring you back to talk about that, but I think we've got to have you and Van Jones and some other people on at the same time so we can really get into a deep conversation about how we don't allow how we make sure every administration and pardons and works for us, but yet still find a way to make sure our people feel like we're still tent tooes down. And I think Ladies of Hope Ministry allows you to be in a lot of spaces and show what you're still doing for our communities. So

thank you so much. Sobeka, Well, I really appreciate the opportunity to be on here. As Cat loves me, I love her equally, um and I love both of you. You know, as you say that you support my work, I support you. I you know, appreciate you. I do know how difficult it is to me go. I've seen, as you said you prior to me going to prison, and I've seen just all that you've done through, true and through, and so you know, God bless both of you. I know how difficult that is to be on those

front lines all the time. I would love to come back to talk about that conversation that we have had, but also to talk about, you know, you know, how the community like how I mean I got daggered. I mean I probably be been if I actually if God did sparituly put the arm all over me while I

was going into some of those places. Um, but understanding that, you know, when your people are calling you from inside of prison every single day and they're like, they don't care whatever you can do to get us out of here, because without them that they would die in prison, you have to make a choice if you were really going to you know, and it's not about you know, you you you have the amble to your point right on

what you're doing and how you're doing it. But I think that it's also critical that we understand that, you know, whether we talk about you know, Trump or Republicans or anyone that's gotten us to this point. Every everyone has gotten us to this point. When you think about the crime Bill, you think about all those things, right, and

who voted the crime bill, in all of those things. Um, when we look at what's happening now, you know, I had some ideas of what I thought this president administration should have done immediately when they came in to right some of the wrongs that they were a part of. That has not been done, um, and who knows if it will be done right? And so I think, you know, as people, we need to really really focus on our people and not so much the politics and what we

don't like. We need to change. So, you know, we need to run for public office. We need to take a hold of those seats. We need to you know, figure out what's really happening in these communities around jerrymandering and everything else. And we need to position ourselves in these communities and take our communities back because with out it, we're gonna have these people representing us, which is not representing us at all. I heard you have it, Sopeka k. Sam.

Thank you for being with us today. We appreciate you, love you, and we support you. Says that's right. I appreciate you'all, love you. Let me too. Shout out to Topeka man Tapika. That was an excellent interview. I didn't know all of the stuff. I've definitely heard a lot about her being incarcerated. I didn't even know her background or which she was actually from. I've just seen the work that she was doing, so she was very informative and just seeing how she transformed that. Like you know,

I tell people that I'm about this. I told you I'm about to do a show co Evolutionary, where you know, I talk about people who have been informally incarcerated. Most people don't even know what have been formally incarcerated, or don't understand just how great they are after being formally because there's this stigma about you being incarcerated, and there's

so many great people who've been incustrated. So I want to do a whole show that just focuses on that shout out to Topeka and that shoutout telling that, yeah, Topeka's she's she's She's a very driven young lady, always has been. She was driven when she was doing whatever you know, form of um dealing, drug dealing she was doing. She was ambitious then and I don't know, you know,

but fifty keys and something. That's that's when you big outside. No, I don't know, but you know, she Um, she's always been really ambitious and a hard worker, and you know, it's just good to see that the story didn't end tragically. Like you know, it would have been tragic for her not to come back into society and you know, figure things out and be able to make a way for other people. As you said to her. I thought that was so positive that you all, you know, I mean,

I thought that was powerful when you said that. You know, not only are you trying to you know, forge away for yourself, but you're making a way for other people. So shout out to Tepeka Sam and and of course you know our girl Tiffany Lofton who came on first to talk about Julius Jones. Um, you know, just to see Julius, I mean to see Tiffany out there fighting for Julius. And really, you know her her wings have sort of been cut where she's no longer under a

certain type of organization. You know, she's she's a bit worked in labor, so that's one type of organizing model. Of course, since she was at the N double A c P, that's another structure that is very very structured. When you work for the N double A c P, you know, not to say that they wouldn't have been on this case because, um, you know, just thinking about like Jill taker Ead Uh, she is a young sister who was at the n Double A CP who specifically worked on ending death row and was able to get

different state to stop uh executing individuals. So I'm not saying that a C doesn't do that work, but and that they wouldn't be involved in Julius Jones situation. But the issue is that when you are an employee, you really do have to go up the chain to get the right way and the approval on how you can approach these issues. And so now to see her out there working with grassroots law, which is obviously an environment that gives, um, you much more freedom to figure out

what is the right way to run a campaign. And she's doing that and I'm watching it happen and I'm really really super proud of her, and I hope that in the end it it is it benefits Julius, you know, to have that energy on the ground. Um when I think about it, actually, uh, the local in Double A

CP president and the organization is involved. So to have all until freedom and her Roland and all of these different individuals and entities apporting to me that should make up the mix the suit that we talk about that will free this man o man, you know, I believe, I really, I really, truly truly believe that, and I believe it's definitely gonna happen soon. To shout out to Tiffany.

But um, we got we come to my own. I don't get it, you know, and it's it's a little bit offered this, but it is has to do it. That's black people. You know. We talk about legacy organizations, and you can't really talk about black legacy organizations without talking about HBCUs, you know. And unfortunately, I had an opportunity to go to Howard Campus a couple of days ago, and I really don't get this situation at all. Like

I am so completely lost, you know. I looked went to a campus and seen young black men, young men and women sleeping intense sleeping in the buildings, talking of giving me blow blow by blows, and how there's mold in their rooms, how they don't even have WiFi, how they're paying fifty dollars to do online classes, how people are just some of them have been told to come to the campus because they had living and they didn't have nowhere for them to live, and they have to

sleep in cars. Some of them talking about how the meal prep is so disgusting that you wouldn't even eat

it if you was in prison. Like it was embarrassing because you know, as a young boy hearing about HBCUs, I never went to one, but I have a lot of friends and family who have been to hbc U s and I watched school days and I wanted to be part of that, you know, I wanted I wanted to go to HBCU so to see that this is the experience of young freshman's and and and a lot of them saying this is we don't have anything else. We we can't fail here, you know, like they're saying

that they not even given their courses properly. They don't have the opportunity to excel. They've given up everything that mother took out, the loans they took out, put leans on their homes, all type of things. To be able to come to this experience and to see that this is what they're going through. They they had some of them had tears in their eyes. We had tears and eyes just listened to the story, and I really just don't get how the administration at Howard allowed this situation

to get to this. You know, well, let me say that there's a few things on that um Howards administration. Of course, they have heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy load and burden that they have to answer to as it relates to the conditions of the students. Absolutely um. Even if they feel that some of it is misunderstandings, overblown. I've heard all types of responses. They need to speak to it. They need to speak to the students directly, not try to isolate one or two students, but to speak to

all the students in an open format. UM. That gives them, the students the opportunity to ask questions, to bring grievances, and that puts the administration in a place where they will respond to what they can respond to, where they will be able to hear um and and here without um, without animosity and age a jerk to try to you know, well, we're gonna silence you by um having you thrown out

of school. It would be best for them to show up and get their sleeves rolled up and get into what is happening with the students and walk alongside them to try to fix some of these issues. So with that being said, the reason why I I I suggest that the administration sort of roll up their sleeves and get in there with Howard is because all of it, everything that's happening, is not their fault alone. We have

a problem with the funding, the real funding. Yes, granted fifty dollars, there's a lot of money from each student

for the semesters. But if you go to predominantly white institutions, they are receiving more money and more support from the outside community, which are rich folks, particularly rich white folks, with endowments to help these schools succeed, and the resources that they receive from the government is completely different at HBCUs they are suffering severely from underfunding and from the disrespect that continues to happen over and over for black

institutions within our society and by our government, and the fact that there are too many people out here who do not see the need to educate and make comfortable black students. So to be host out towards the students, to me is a lack of foresight and it's ignorant because really they could be coming together to show that these are some of the challenges that HBCUs go through.

But the problem is that we are often wanting to put up a wall and to blame the victims rather than to understand that this is a problem that has

to be worked through. Mold has to be worked on regardless of who is responsible for it, and if Colverus which is the company UM that owns and operates most of the buildings, So people need to understand that at Howard and other schools they do not own and operate all of the housing buildings, that there are other entities that have been bought in to do that because of the lack of funding within these institutions, and Calvus UM has not done a good job just trying to clean

buildings and not actually doing the renovations. It's criminal, it's wrong, and the students need to be supported, their voices need to be uplifted. But I think this is also a good time to get into the real layers of what's going on with HBCUs, black institutions, Black educational institutions and to be able to see not where you can just blame UM, you know, one entity or the other, but to look at the entire problem and to see how our government is also feeling black students in these colleges.

It's the fact, you know, um, that that was one

of the things that the kids. So they we sat and had you know, closed for them inside the auditorium in Blackburn, and which you know, we just listened to their grievances and they and they have a whole plan and Calvarius was one of the places that they talked about, and they talked about also how the administration and how you know, how it has a contract with Cavarius that they could have broken, but because they didn't want to lose money, they allowed, you know, this could continue on.

So as much as Cavarus is responsible. You know, the fact that um Howard University and who's in charge of those the board members and everyone involved in that situation, President, everyone involved in not breaking this contract is when they see that, you know, it's not being handled properly. You know, they also have to take some responsibility. And like you said,

they should be. They should be sitting out there with the kids saying, yo, you know, none of our kids should have to sleep in rooms with molding, you know, so I mean, period exactly, they should be saying that they should be together with the students saying this is outrageous. But you know what's happening instead is that every single day the story is getting worse for the administration. Now I saw that the president. They have a sign, they got a big old poster and they have the president

his picture. Well you have, yeah, So unfortunately that's what's happening because there is a level of hostility that you know it's unnecessary, but you know, hey, they'll figure it out. I think they got all over, they got this, they got this sign all over all over once again. Man, this is a dope show. You know, um listening. So Peaka just gave me reinvigorated a little bit of energy for me being formally incostrated means I gotta do a little bit more. You know, she's out here all of

these programs and you know, paying it forward. You know, we want to appreciate her for coming on the show, and we're praying for Julius. Man, I believe, I really believe deep in my heart that you know, this hearing is gonna come and you know, his state of executional result in him actually being released. I believe, I really believe that I don't see. I don't see any of

them option in this situation. So shout out to Tiffany for updating us with that, and shout out to his family and friends and role I mean for m herv Rolling, everybody who's been supporting him, everybody who's been on the front line, grassroots law and everybody. Man. Shout out to y'all man for the work that you're doing out there. So that brings us to end of another number one podcast. Number one podcasts in the world brings us to another end, another show that we end, and I want to appreciate

y'all everybody who's been supporting us. You know, I always say we number one, but we're gradually moving again. You know, people are definitely being engaging. People stopped me on the streets sin how much they love this podcast. Just know that we appreciate you. If you have any suggestions, tell us things that you want to see, you want to hear, things you don't like, things you loved, you know how much you hate me or love me, whatever. I take all of it, man, We want all of the feedback.

Go to Street Politicians Pod. You can leave suggestions there On Instagram for anything that you want to see or here. You know, if you like Tamike us here today, you can let us know. You know. She we we all, we want all of everything you got, man. So once again, I'm not gonna always be right. Jamica Mallory will not always be wrong, even though most of the times between me and how she will. But we will both always

and I mean always, be authentic solutely. Listen to Street Politicians on the Black Effect Network on I Heart Radio and catch us every single Wednesday for the video version of Street Politicians when I Women dot Tv