The Fight Continues

we got we got a long show. We've got a lot of people who you need to hear from, some good topics, our friends, some people that we just respect. So we got to talk. We have to talk long. So you're okay with because you said I tell you what to do and then they said, yes, bullying, Yeah, y'all just be bullying me to hold Look, you don't understand this whole Thing's a bunch of women in here, and that's men. There are men in the room today today. We have an out number. But for the most part,

I'm bullied. Are you trying to get your message across to the world? Do you see their laughing because they know what's going on? You know what? And I'd be like yo in the street, like I'm like ge like you y'all can't treat me like this. We'll just make you better. People crazy, whatever, we just make you better. So I think we can just jump right into my father to death says. My thought of the day is that when you know you're gonna talk too much, don't

talk too much in the beginning. Talk later. So I already thought about it, and I think we should go right into our That's so we're gonna go straight into the guests. Y'all make sure that you're tune in. Twenty one years ago, Uh, gentleman that is coming to the show today put out an album called Shine Um that was his historic I mean, I don't know how many millions of downloads now at that time and in the record sales right millions that that Shine was able to

accomplish here in America. Um someone that we love and respect. And I don't know too many Black people that don't say Shine was the absolute, absolute man and he still is. He is the tenth opposition leader for the House of Representatives in Belieze. After completing a ten year sentence for an incident that happened in the New York City club he was deported to believe Um. People thought he would never make it back to the state side, but he

is here. He's been coming back to America and working with government officials and community leaders to try to bridge a gap between his country and this country. And we are super, super super super excited to have Shine with us today. Also, today we're talking to uh Dr Lilia Celano from Columbia, who does piece work and fights for

justice in Colombia, working specifically with young people. She has been acknowledged by the United States for her peace work in Columbia, and we're gonna have a conversation with her today, this humanitarian, this activist. We're gonna be talking to her about the issues in Colombia and how it relates to what we deal with and what we fight for right

here in the United States. So we have two really really powerful guests coming up today, and we decided to cut down some of the pieces of our regularly scheduled programming because we really don't want to rush these interviews. We want to get really, really into it, and I certainly want to hear what Brother Sean has to say, So stay tuned. It's gonna be a good one. So once again we are joined by another one of our friends,

um someone who respect. You know, we came through the ranks together through hip hop, and just to watch his evolution from a hip hop artist is just phenomenal. He is the tenth opposition leader of the House of Representatives in Belize, the former whip He sits on so many different stages and levels of government in Belies, and he's a dope rapper. My brother, my friend Jamal Shine Barrow. How are you doing today, King, I'm doing great. Thank

you for that drum roll, A wonderful introduction. Yes, thank you so much for being with us today. How are you feeling, man? You know, it's you know, it's always it's always great to be in New York City. Um, it's my second trip, you know, I'm here. It's only

a second trip. Yeah. Yeah. I came in August. I went back to Belize to get back to work, and then I came back to the United States on Friday, and I came to New York City on Sunday night, and I was, you know, to meet with Lieutenant Governor Brian Benjamin and uh Congressman Series, who is the Chairman of the House of Representatives Western Hemisphere. I have a few other meetings schedule, so you you out here to

do a big on behalf of beliefs. You know. You know, certainly I commend you and Mice for the work that you guys do, are serving your country and your communities. And there's no difference in what I'm doing. You know, I really think it's all about service. So whether or not you are a politician or a street politician, you know the purposes service and helping people and making the society be living better. So you know, Mice and I used to do that in our raps and it's really

no difference. When I first got into politics, I used to go to every rally and you know, watch the speakers speak. And I used to laugh to myself because I said, you know, I used to perform in front of tens of thousands of people, and you know, because it's a it's an art. You know, there's a method, is a rhythm. Um. But the difference is for them, maybe I don't know what their purposes, because you know, politicians can be scurvy and lack ethics and morals and honor.

But for me, there was always purpose. When I was rapid. If you listen to my first album, you know the intro, the first thing I said was, you know, day, America, please save me. I'm only what you made me young and crazy. Bill schools instead of prison, and I'll stop living the way I'm living. Um, teach me a craft or trade and I wouldn't be on the block every day serving that. Yeah, the reason I mentioned that stands a right, you know that. So I'm just saying that

is the I'm the embodiment of that. As a member of the House of Representatives, that's my platform. That's what I fight for every day to create a better reality for the disenfranchise and the disinherited. So the transition is seamless because basically what I was rapping about I was giving a voice to the voiceless. Now, as a member of the House of Representatives, I am responding to that voice because I still hear that voice because I was

that voice. And so I'm very in tune and pay keen attention to those voices, and I want to change the reality so those voices don't have to make those complaints. So this is dope, you know what I'm saying, Watching you evolved, coming from where we come from, both of us changing our perspectives and understanding our calling, and our purpose is to do something higher. You know. Music is the foundation. You know, it was our way of voicing our struggles. It was our way of describing the pain

in our community. So watching you seeing that and and just understanding what it is for me, you know, it's commendable. But there are a lot of kids, right that's probably sixteen and seventeen. It's like, who shine? I heard? But who is he? I want you to give like a brief synopsis of from your time getting signed until now

so people can kind of understand this briefly. I don't want you to go through the whole thing, but just give a synopsis, a little bit of a story, a little bit of history, so that they can understand exactly who you are. Because I know the full show. We was in studio, it was everything, so I know the full shine. But just give them a little you know, usually on our show we get upset because our segments

are so short with our guests. You would be the first guests that we actually are like, let's get deep into I'm honored. I'm honored and it's a privilege. You know, I'm a kid from Belize. You know, my mom immigrated from Belize, which is in Central America, Paradise UM, back in the eighties. And you know, I was just an immigrant kids, single mother that was fortunate enough to sign to bad Boy Records back in UM. You know, after b I g passed away and Mace became religious and

the Locks went to rough Riders. Uh. You know, basically it was you know shine. You know, I was like, uh, I would say maybe Kobe Bryant, you know, Uh, I don't know who who to really rookie to really describe it. But everything was really on my back, and um, there were a lot of expectations. UM. But I was very fortunate to get it togevernment had some great friends such as Mice gave me some great learning lessons. I never forget, you know, being for Brooklyn. I think it's just a

New York thing was certainly Brooklyn. We got a lot of confidence, overconfident, super confident, and I had one of the most humbling experiences. And uh, PUFF used to have a restaurant called Justine's. And you know, I was young, nineteen years old, you know, new millionaire, UM, you know, driving six hundreds and you know Rolli's and you know that era of living and you know. So we were in the parking lot of Justine's and it was like, listen, you know, Mice is better than you, and I'm like,

and so we started rapping and he smoked me. And I say all that to say that humbling experience allowed me to work harder and to dig in and to realize that it wasn't about the material things. It was really about the purpose, and the purpose was being a voice for all my friends that were still in Brooklyn, still struggling, still having a difficult life, and really giving them a platform and giving us story a platform. That

was when rap was wrapped. That's when you had to battle, like you know, like shot like he says, he's he's being honest. He was the top person. Like everybody in the hood was here, and Sean just got this million out the record. He's the man, you know, He's the next biggie. Everybody. So I'm hungry. I'm coming from the block. I ain't got nothing, I got holes in my shoes, you know. My man tone picked me up off the block. And you see Sean, he outed him, and don't real's

just wrapping. You don't think you got a deal after that, Like I literally got some because that's what it was like. You actually had to compete, you know what I'm saying, and don't have the shooting. You had to wrap and everybody in the industry. And then I was like, this is my time. It's now know but never so like how does that work? Like so then because now if you have a battle and one person wins another, then the teams kill each other. So real like that, I think,

not bad. No battle rappings, no battle rap right now is one of the biggest form of hipper Like shout out to my brother Goods. You're told on this year, now that you told what you're talking about real beef, Like now beef has transferred. Yeah, it's battle rapping. Son people again signed based off beef. You're getting beef. You put it on the record. You talk about how you

shot at somebody and they give you a million hollars. No, before it was actually the scale level of battle and who came over, the real punch lines and who came up and we was gladiators, man, you know, And it was just like and we grew with respect, we became really good friends. Definitely studio with respect to tone and to Nagel and too you know the guys that we know from back in that era. So twenty one years ago on September six, for all of you young uh

young bucks out there, um, young ripper snappers. Uh one years ago, on September twenty six, I put out my first album, Shine cons debut albums Shine and sold over a million records. Um was number two on the Rap Billboard R and B Billboard. Um and yeah one I think um Nellie oh man that Nelly was a night man. I don't know what they was doing. Like every week they were selling two hundred thousand records for like for like a year straight. I've never seen anything like that

in my life. Um yeah, so so yeah, that's who I am. I put out another album, also, Godfather, Bury the Live UM that was the number one R and B rap album in two thousand four. You know. And why was it called Godfather Because I was buried alive,

you know, again for you for the younger generation. You know, I had spent about ten years in prison because of an unfortunate incident in the club where you know, someone was trying to kill my friends, kill me, and I defended my friends, and unlike some of the young rappers, today who have no morals and no ethics and absolutely no integrity for me, you know, and for mice and for the generation that we come from. That's that's everything,

you know. If you don't have integrity, you have nothing. Um. So I refused to cooperate and try to get my friends in trouble to get myself out of trouble. Um, you know. And and so I had to. I had to pay my debt to society, you know, because I did have an unlicensed gun. But I was defending myself, you know, I wasn't causing any trouble. Um. And I put out another album. I was fortunate to do a distribution deal with UH def Jam during that time, and

we put out Godfather Bury Alive one number one. Only Tupac was the only other person to do that. Um. Yeah, and here I am now over forty million records sold as a writer, UH publisher and performer. You know, I did usher. We want to grant me for that album of confessions. They called me while I was at Clinton Dennymore in the same place Tupac was. Um was there

at the same time. I was about to say, you might be you might be from that young generation before you yeah, because I was about to say when you said that, it just no, no, no, yeah, I'm sorry. Well yeah yeah, so um yeah, so so we want to grab me for for us your Confessions remix which I recorded in the yard and Clinton Denimore. I had to go to the box for that because you know, I was pulling a lot of fast ones on governing up attacking he was a governor back then. Um yeah,

so so that's who I am. You know, I'm considered hip hop legend for you young guys. That sound better if Mike said he's a hip hop legend. Man, He's somebody who turned his passion in his pain and his

trauma and then came out even after being honorable. And I say this all the time, like he said, it's about integrity and morals, and this is what we stood on and rather than involved with somebody else and get somebody else in trouble for things that we then we responsibility for our own situations and we handled that, We paid our death society, and we came out and that's

legendary for me. And and the skill level that you possess, you know, and then seeing that you came home right, and it's so and I know it's hard because it's you come home and people have this expectation for you to stay the same person. I want you to be your Sean bust is gone. He just in that and to come home evolved and say nah, it's you know, and change that, knowing that you can grab onto that

whole energy and live all for that. We're saying to yourself. Now, I'm gonna change that, and I'm gonna utilize what y'all celebrate me for, and I'm gonna change the perspective. I'm gonna make sure their kids this nineteen and twenty don't do the same thing that I'm gonna lead into a different direction. And that's legendary. You know that, And the self is legendary. So right now, what's your position to gain?

You are the temph Well, I I was an opposition leader of the House of Representative the tenth You know, I've been succeeded recently by another member of the House of Representatives, but I'm still a member of the House of Representatives. You know, I sit on the Foreign Affairs and National Security, and Education House committees, to name a few. Um you know, I represented great people from Mesopotamia constituency.

And you know, my constituency is filled with young shines who you know, due to a lack of financial resources, a lack of you know, family structure, um, you know, just disinherited, disenfranchised. So for me, every time I go to the House of Representatives and I stand up in the House, I'm fighting uh for you know, uh, eradicate poverty, you know, to bridge the gap between the rich and

the poor, to create a system of the ability to ascend. Uh. You know right now is rich or poor, snow working class, no middle class, no upper middle class. And so those are the things that I'm fighting for uh in Belize.

And so certainly when I come to the States, it's to meet with my counterparts in Congress and Senate, in the Governor's House, um, so that we could build a strong relationship with beliefes and we could get more investment in Belize and more of a recognition of beliefes, so that those young uh you know, girls and boys can have the opportunity that I had in the States, you know,

because I came to believe. I came from Belize to the States when I was about eight years old, and I always feel guilty that the opportunities that I had growing up as a Belieze in American Um, my people in Belizes don't have, or at least not enough of them had. So my my purpose and commitment is to create opportunities so that girls and boys from those impoverished communities,

you know, can be able to thrive. Yeah. So, first of all, it sounds a lot like America because we're quickly approaching a place where it is the rich and the poor, right like, the middle classes is really being gutted by all of what I'm sure you watch happening from from there to here. Uh. We just and of course the pandemic has done nothing but made it worse, you know. Um, But I want to go backwards a little bit so that we can come back to what

your purpose is there in Belize. But I want to just because I know there are so many people that want to understand what happens. So it's time for you to be released from prison. And do you know already as you're getting to the point of release that you're going to be deported or well, you know the way I got deported, They actually had me down as an American citizen, you know, but being corocerated as a nightmare.

No matter how, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Um. You know, so enduring that nightmare becomes unbearable at times. And so I wanted to just go back to Belize um. And there was uh exchange that they had on on the books where you know, they would send you back to your country um, based on certain criterias um before your time, so you could serve your time there um.

And so once I did that, that's when they realized that how it was a Beliezing citizen, right, I was a permanent resident, you know, but when I went into the system, I went into the system as an American citizen. So so I knew I would have been deported. When time came for me to be deported, um, you know, I had a bunch of people telling me, no, you know, let's get a lawyer, let's fight it, and I refused. I just wanted to be free, you know. I didn't want to sit in an immigration out for another day

two years, forget about. I just wanted to be free. Um. So when the time came out, willingly said, please, you know, let me go. Let me go to my home. That's where I was born. I'm okay with that, and if if it's God's will, then I returned to the United States. That happened. When it happens, I just want to be free ago, okay. So now when you're in Believe, how does politics become your passion? Well, you know, when I first went back to Belize, I wasn't interested in politics.

I was just interested in being free. But interestingly enough, everything that I did then it is consistent with what I'm doing now. When I landed after you know, my mom and my dad and family met me at the airport. Um the first thing I said was take me to the children's home, take me to the Forester Home, take me to wherever the trouble kids are. I want to go speak to them. Now they're like now, I'm like yeah, Now, So I didn't. I didn't go get anything to eat.

I didn't go check into my hotel. Nothing. I went from the airport to the children's home and to the to the troubles youth home. So that's so service was always on my mind. Giving back was always on my mind, using myself as an example as a deterrent as to what not to do. So you don't get yourself in trouble as a young uh you know, boy or girl, and as an inspiration, asked to how you could overcome and endure and have integrity and character, um, once you

do face an obstacle. So that's what I was doing. You know, I would go to the prisons and I would try to speak to uh the incarcerated, you know, women and men and boys and girls, uh to stop recidivism and you know, to try to encourage them to transition when they get out to be product the citizens. Um. So that's what I was doing, was doing a lot of charity work. But I wasn't doing it for politics. I was just doing it to be a humanitarian. And that's just the way I grew up. That's just what

you do. You know, once you get there, you help everybody else. And so I was traveling. I was in North Africa, Egypt, Israel, Paris, all over the world, and I came to believe for my mother's sixtieth birthday. And you were traveling as a humanitarian. I was trying. I was just trying. I want to be free. It's part of freedom process. So so you know what when I wasn't believed, I did those things. But you know, my

life wasn't to be mother Teresa. I wanted to be free, So yeah, do that when I come home, But I need to travel the world. I want to just get on the plane and just go. I just want to be free. So I came back to Believe for my mom's sixtieth birthday. And you know a friend of mine, you know, she was a senator, you know, um, very strong political person. The name is Julia Timbrough, Senator Timbrough. She is the one that said to me, you know,

what are you doing? Like what's going on? Like I'm just traveling, just being free, just you know, enjoying my life. And she's like, man, you know it's a lot going on here and Believes and you know things about to change, like it's gonna be a transition. You have a new set of leaders that are coming up, and I'm not really confident in them. You know, you ever thought about getting involved? Why don't you know? What are you doing out there? Like you know, I don't see you making

any records. I don't like what's going on. Why don't you come back here like we need you? You know, um, come back here, go to law school. You know, getting involved in the community like you did when you first came out. And I was like, you know, I never thought about being anything other than a musician, um, you know, other than an entertainer and entrepreneur in music. Um. But when she told me that, you know, I was like, Okay, yeah,

I hear you. And every time I would go to Belieze, I would spend time in these communities that I serve now. And when you would see the poverty, when you would see the burdens, when you would see the challenges, the obstacles, Like there's people that live in a place called like London Bridge, where they got a bunch of crates and you gotta walk on crates and it's just water all around. People that live in a house that they made with plywood and they put like they don't even have zinc.

They don't even have a roof. That was the original yeah right, um. So when you see people living like that, I'm like, you know, whatever I've been through, whatever losses I've taken, whatever devastations I've suffered, at least I had an opportunity to make millions of dollars and sell millions of records and flying private planes and you know, accomplish my dream as a musician, and what do they have?

And I felt as I felt when I first got off the plane, that responsibility to do something and to give something to my people. I said, you know what, that's what I need to do. I don't need to be in Paris, you know, uh, with Jay and with Drake and you know, being an entertainer. I need to be in Belize with these people that are suffering because I have the vision, you know, I have the desire to make their lives better. Like that's what I want to brag about. I don't want to brag about a

Wraith or fifty million dollar earbus. I want to brag about transforming beliefs and creating a climate so that there there could be opportunity for success for these kids the same way I had it. And that's when, you know, seven or eight years ago, I said, you know what time for me to go back home. I got into I didn't go to law school. I got into foreign investment,

and I just became a community servant. You know. I was like the vice chair of the constituency and I just started getting into education funding for kids that couldn't afford to go to school. Um, you know, parenting classes because when you look at the crime, a lot of these kids that are committing crimes, they come from broken homes. Either their fathers were committing crimes, or you know, their moms were addicted the drugs, or you know, come from

you know, just very very broken. Uh. You know family structures. Uh. So I would do things like that, you know, leadership classes, entrepreneurship classes, small business development because I didn't believe in I didn't get into it to be famous or to be rich. Uh. I got into it to to lead and to serve and to be able to have the power to encourage my colleagues. Let's get together, and you know, we recently celebrated our forty uh birthday and belieze the

next forty years has to be better. You know, I don't know if we've done enough in the last forty years. I think not, Um, but the culture has to change. We need different leaders. We need leaders that are not trying to be Oh I'm the minister. Oh I'm from the House of Representatives, But what are you doing for your people? What are you doing to change the lives of belief ins and make it better? Has to be. But unfortunately, like Senator Timbero told me eight years ago,

there's too many of those politicians. And so, you know, rather than to win your election, Well, I started to work eight years ago because someone asked me that today I don't believe in you know, when's the w's the election? Okay, that's when I'll get in. No, I believe you serve your community. You want to, you want to be elected serve and so I started serving. People would tell me you're wasting your money. You know, you're doing it too early.

You know. Uh, my predecessor they said that, you know, he would never retire. They said that they have to bury him in the House of Representatives. So I'm wasting my time. And I said, you know, um, it doesn't matter because I'm still helping people. So whether I get elected or not, you know, I'm blessing people. So you know, I'll be Okay, it's not about getting elected. I'd like to because then I could, you know, take my actions and put it into policy and put it into legislation

and create a system. See for me, I don't want it to be. I don't want to be a neo colonial master. You know, I don't want my people to be dependent on me or a politician. So I want to create systematic change, so you don't need to go to a politician, right So so so it's going to outlive me and and the society that we live in is gonna work for everyone, not just the people that vote for me, or not just the people that I liked.

So I started doing that eight years ago. So in they had the elections, and the political party that I'm from UH had about twenty one seats, twenty or twenty one seats. We lost every seat except five, and that says to me it was a complete swing tsunami. Had I not done the work for the last seven or eight years, I would have lost two. Because people want to change, They just want to do something different. We

tired of those guys. But I did so much work that you know, people, man, we can't do that to him. You know, he's been there for us. Like if he did all this for us for the last eight years, imagine when you get selected and that. And that's what I've been doing with my own resources, because as an opposition member of the House of Representatives, you get nothing. You know, if I told you how much we made you laugh, and we don't. You know, we get like

us dollars for constituency development. That's nothing you can't help, you know, but a few people with that. So I find the resources the same way I've been doing for the last eight years, UM and I and I speak on the policies and the legislation that needs to take place so that there can be systematic change. You know. So this is listening to you. It's purpose, you know, not your purpose. It's not driven by accolades, not driven by a position, is driven by just doing the work.

Our goal is that were not needed. Look, they said, so what do you want? We want that the fight that we fight in is we win and we don't have to do none of this. Amen, you know what I'm saying. We don't. We're not trying to be full time activists. We don't want to be out here risking our lives and our freedom all time. We want whatever it is we're fighting against to be right so we can go and be peaceful and do all those things. You know, just listening to you mirrors what it is

that we're saying. So what can we do, like what can we do to help on your past? Like you come you in beliefe. You know, you're making this transition back and forth to America. Like, what is it that you want to see? I want to see more people visit beliefs. I want to see you guys come down the Belieze, invest in belize, you know, come down mentor you can mentor some girls you can mentor some guys um.

You know. Just I want believes to be a bridge between you know, the United States and the Africans here and the Africans and Belieze and all people in beliefs. Yeah, you know, so I just want to see you guys, you know, because once you do that, then you're spending money, You're any time, you're giving your your expertise. You know,

you're sharing you know, um your life experiences. And you know, one girl wanting to be you know, Tamika, you know, is enough, but maybe we could get ten, fifteen, twenty, a hundred, you know, all of them. I want to create a culture of empowerment where our girls and our boys um believe that they're more than the current status quo. And you know, the current status quo is if you're poor, you stay poor, you go to jail, you be a gang leader. You know, you support the gangs, and that's it. Um,

you know, I'll give you an example. They try to recently pass the law to disqualify me from the House of Representatives, saying that if you committed the crime, and you were convicted of any crime, you can't serve in

the House of Representatives. They've pulled it back. But what that says is that the only people that have interaction with the criminal justice system are the poor people because the wealth the people could afford to getting lawyer, they're politically connected, and that those charges are never even materialized. So again it's a it's an effort to keep you where you are rather than opening doors. Because the House of Representatives is the people's house, so everybody belongs there.

But it just shows the mentality of some people. So again, I want, uh, you know, all of you, all of your listeners to visit belies, to invest in beliefs, and let believes, you know, be your second home. You know, That's what I want because our GDP is driven by tourism, so the more people that visit beliefs, you know, the more. But there could be other things, you know, trade, Um, you know, I want uh aggro trade. You know, there could be countless opportunities. You can build a movie studio

down there. Um, there's just so much to do and beliefs. I just want people to visit belives, appreciate beliefs and how to help with everything else. You know. When so you're in Belize, now you are a member of the House and Represents Natives, you're in the political party doing the whole thing. When do you find out that it's okay for you to return to the US, that you've been granted the ability to travel back. Well, no, I'm

here as as a member of the House of Representatives. Um, all members of the House of You didn't even know that at the time when you started running for office, you weren't even thinking about No, no, no, no no, because you know, I have a good relationship with the State Department that I've developed over the years. You know. But you know, the Americans, like any other country, could decide who will enter their country and who won't. And it doesn't matter whether or not you're a member the

House of Representatives. You know, there's certain members of the House of Representatives who can't come to the United States. This is one thing that America got right, like one thing that this country has finally done that we have a lower yeah. So so um yeah, so as a member of the House of all members of the House of Representatives, um, you know, get a diplomatic passport and

can travel for official purposes. And so, you know, leading up to the elections, I was telling you know, Diddy, I was telling everybody, you know what my vision is for beliefs the same way I just explained. And so you know, one of the asks that I made was to please put me in the room with Congressman Meeks. You know, God bless him. He was so gracious received me while he was voting on the John Lewis um Bill rights bill. Uh. You know, Congresswoman, you've met Clark,

Congressman Haakim Jeffries, who was a big hip hop fan. Um. You know, so getting in the room with these people not just for photo opportunities, but to have these discussions that we're having about you know, the Caribbean, about believe it's very important. You know, we haven't had an embat a stuld in belief since President Obama. We've never had a president of the United States visit beliefs. I hope to change that. You know, I believe relationships is everything.

You know, if if if I don't talk to you, and if we don't communicate, how can anything happen? And so I believe, you know, being able to get into these rooms and have these conversations can only benefit believes, you know. So definitely I had the vision as the elections were coming closer, to start making calls and letting my guys know j Prince, you know, uh Killer Mike, you know, Maxine Waters, all these people listen. You know, I want to set up meetings as soon as I

get elected so we could talk about believes. And so said, so done, Thank god. You know Erica Thomas, she's the House of Representatives member in Georgia. You know, Senator Leicester Jackson. You know, there's a whole crew of from down there to rebel uh Park Cannon, you know, she she got arrested for protesting that the government's uh the Governor's office. Yeah yeah, you know, so um yeah yeah, so yeah, man.

We we just want to say thank you for coming to the show, celebrating this is your twenty one year one anniversary of the Shine album. That's not why I'm hearing the States, it's not, but we just we still listen hip hop. You know. We want to thank councilman um Robert Carnegie who honored me, uh, you know for the the fine arts, the contributions that the Shine album that's twenty one years Yeah, September. I have an amazing divine daughter by the name of Naomi. She's three and

a half going on. And my wonderful wife Catherine, who's you know, taking care of her? And I don't know. I guess, you know, women mothers. I don't know what we would do without doing certainly you know, but we don't know what we would do without the fathers, men who are out here making history. So while we're ending this, I just have to ask because every all my friends would be really upset if I did not, um, excuse me, if I did not dig into the voice. We've got

to talk about the voice. The voice. So is that what really got you sort of noticed? Was it your voice or was it something different? Was my my bar? I mean, of course the bars, but you know, the girls are attracted to other things. And how I got successful or how I got discovered to get suned. Okay, let's see what it's a little combination of both, you know. I think, you know, after I got signed, because you know, even though Mike smoked me, I would have at the lyrics. Yeah,

but it was a combination. And I'm gonna be honest because he had bars, Like definitely had bars. So like, you know, I want to acknowledge dum pooh um manny Manny Hally Mark Pitts. So like as soon as I went in front of him, there was like, hold up, wait, wait, let's let's call puff, Let's call you know. And it had nothing to do with you know, I don't know. I don't know what they was thinking. You'd have to

ask them what. But I thought I thought I thought it was I thought it was the bars, you know, because in the barbershop. In the barbershop, nobody has any foresight of vision. They just you know, either you whack or yeah. The barbershop is the place of truth. So in the barbershop, I was winning. I was that guy. It was like, man, listen, I'm telling you you better than all them guys on TV. When did you know you had a special voice. You know, my my father

has the same voice. If you ever listen to my father speak, you know, um, but I never thought I had a special voice. I just you know, my content. It was really about the content. It was really about lyricism, you know, really about putting it together. And I just love music, and so for me, it was always about creating something that would live forever. And you know, people still love that Shine album and that Godfather Buried the

Live album. And that's what I wanted to accomplish. Like you know, when you listen to Only Built for Cuban Links, when you listen to the Chronic or All Eyes on Me, A Doggy Style of Life after Death or No Way Out, those are albums that captured the emotions, you know, the vibration of frequency at that time, so you live in their moments and their truths, and regardless of whether you agree or disagree, I just wanted to be able to capture my truth and my energy and my frequency and

make you allow you to feel me. Always wanted you to feel me, Like I never wanted to create anything just for the sake of creating it. And so you know, when I got discovered, that's the energy that I came with, Like you know, I made you. I had such a conviction like I could run through this ball, and so when I spit it, you felt it. So that's why I thought, yeah, no, But I want you to know that while you was running through the wall and doing

the thing, your voice was speaking to us. And you said earlier because I didn't know about the Tupac jail time or whatever, that maybe I'm one of the young Bucks. But it wasn't so much that I was a young Bucks that pregnant. Yeah, well I'm not, but I was. I was eighteen, I was having a baby. There's a

lot going on, you know what I mean. I didn't have time to really focus as much on what was happening in pop culture because first I was having a baby, and then two years later, my son's father was murdered. So it was a lot happening transitionally in my life. But I know there was this guy that sounds really really good on the ray Deo. Amen, Amen, Amen, thank you so much. Listen, you heard what she said. You know, women get to control what's going on. Bonnie and Sean,

Bonnie and Sean, that's my record right there. All the guys love bad boys, but my favorite record is Bonnie and Shan because that's the record that the women like and and can't believe what Carl Thomas. You know, I tell you. So I went to UM to see Jay jay Z at his eighteenth anniversary, and so it was older together, that's right. So listen. Yeah, So so before you guys came in, I walked in right to the back and as I walked into the back, I can't believe comes on what an intro? So it was great

and I said, homes to be clearing. Nothing happened, and I did I didn't pay that. I didn't pay the DJ because you can't pay the DJA before they saw him. But listen, this is after you come in. You already came in. You're taking your drinks, you know. Um, I'm just saying the moment that I walked and I haven't seen you know, Jay and years since we were in Paris. It was just a magical moment. So that's that's that. That's a great. It was great to see you there, man,

it was anybody was there man. Once again, man, we just want to say we appreciate you, just just listening to you and seeing how focus and how driven you are to really make change, you know, just to contribute your life for something you know, it's a lot of people would do things for a purpose and the reason I'm trying to get some money, and that's cool. But when you have a purpose and it's driven by just wanting to do the right thing, it's just different and

people feel that and they can see that it's authentic. Man. So I just want to I want to say, I appreciate you man, the work you're doing. Celebrate that album. That Sean album one of my favorite albums. I remember I used to go to the studio and Sean used to play me records and I'd be like, now this is it, now, this is it. And I remember one record you was doing right if Puff got so mad? You play street Um street Life record and I love this record, So I like, yo, Sean, this record is fired.

So I go somewhere else and I forgot. He like, don't tell Puff that you heard direct. So we're somewhere and I just thought, hummed. I didn't say nothing. I'm just like, I don't know what happened. He looked at me like, how did you hear that? He was letting listen to the records. I was like, my brother wanted to be the one to tell everybody. First, it's coming from him first that he was I'm not talking about

you this brother, I'm talking about Papa. You know, you want to be the one to introduced it to the world. But it's really really great to see both of y'all together and to watch the chemistry and the conversation and the mind's going. I don't know, politicians, we've building something politicians, but politician six degrees we just moved into five six ft though with Jacob all right, thank you very much,

Thank you so much for being with him. So today is really turning out to be like an international show because it just so happened. It wasn't playned this way. We had obviously our brother Shine on we've just talked to and I thought that was again such a great interview. Um yeah, twenty one years and and now we are joined by a woman who we're just becoming acquainted with, who is in Colombia. She's a professor, humanitarian and activist

who works on gun violence. They're in Lumbia trying to curb gun violence and bring down, uh, the number of shootings and um and and she very much so like our brothers Shine. The reason why we were able to get both of them today is because the United Nations has been meeting and they are both attending different events

and participating in the United Nations efforts UM. And and this young woman, Dr Lilia Silano is actually being recognized UM by those individuals who are attending UH the open session that is happening here at the United Nations UH this week. So folks know that we tape our shows and so you are seeing us sort of going back

in time to come back to time. And Dr Silano, we are so happy that you are coming to the US and being a part of UH the efforts here to spread the message about what is happening in Colombia, but of course how it relates to what's been in

here in the US. UM. My son and I work every single day on the issue of gun violence, prevention and intervention and really the larger UM conversation around peace, UM and justice, and to have other counterparts in places like Colombia, and of course our our friend who was just here with us earlier today in a place like Believe it really is giving a showing how this is a global crisis that we are all a part of.

And so we are so happy to have you with us today, Dr Selano, thank you for joining Street Politicians. Thank you so much. This is a really good opportunity for me to share with you about the Columbian's efficial, the many challenges the especially young people, woman indigenous people for Columbia's face, trying to UM to achieve a good luck, a better life, dignity. So we have in Colombia this UM, this bridge between the poor and the rich is a huge So this I can say this, this is the

roots of of violence. So from time to time politicians as as the program is, the street politicians UM came to power, but they benefit those UH rich and with economical and political very powerful ties. And then then the people. The people are almost sevent of the population lives in poverty and they travel for education, for health, for food,

for the basis, for for housing. So through the years we we have this situation where the powerful controls the politics and then they are elected to benefit UH business, international corporations, so that the people struggled so much. But it's still in the city, many people is jelling and fighting for for justice and for equality. How how long have you been doing this work, doctor? I grew up in a in a in a poor neighborhood in Cali.

In another city living Bogota, I grew up and my mother was a worker and my grandma, who was a peasant. They were internally displaced by violence. So since I was at school, I learned about unjust and I learned about the need for transformation. So I went. Then I went to university, and I was I was saying as a as a humanist, but mostly as one who would fight for human rights. And in my country does a dangerous profession.

M h m hmmm. So so because of your childhood and your upbringing, you learned about justice and you were you were like you wanted to get more involved, and so you started to sort of work within the community and work with people. And what did you focus on first? Was it always violent or how did you get in to fighting for justice and the rights of those people

there in your community? Yes, I think true true school years at the university used in philosophy um and basically we will learn how to think, and then you think and then you you learn about critical thought. So I saw a reality. But then I go when I went to the university, I confront all these intellect theories with our realities and ended up I find a wish mixing

the realities and education. So I learned to to look for the roots of unjust andally the the control of the land, the economical model, the the the interest of trnational corporations. So I I learned to to fight for the basic basic fundamental rights. And has been through my life that I especially um in in support with victims of of the what nicol state crimes, or of crimes or of economical crimes. So it's it's most I focused on on those kind of victims, women of Colombians, indigenous

people and Jews. Since last year, a huge protest has been taking place in Colombia because the Jews are without education and without house and without employed, so so they just went to the streets and and then they're just jelling for for justice and justice like it sounds al much like everything here here and and and the model of most activists and humanitarians and people who focus on the work that we do understand that you have to get to the root, cause you have to be able

to identify why is there violence, not because people are bad people, bowl not because they were they were born violent, But there's there's issues with society that makes people who are poor, who are hungry, who are are traumatized, mental illness and everything, it makes them violent and well. And it's like we're screaming this from America to Columbia to everywhere the same conversation because the reality is we there's a saying that I have and we've all adopted, is

that poverty is violence. And everywhere that you look with there is violence. It stems from poverty. If you go to communities where people are well to do and have resources that they need, you just don't see violence. You don't see even police, you know, occupation, occupation in those

communities because there's no need for that. So we understand what the correlation between violence and poverty is, why not do what necessary to eliminate the poverty, you know, because but unfortunately we live in a AOL society where people want, they need, they need poverty, They need poor people because it funds these governments with all the money that they put in and people that they pay to keep us disenfranchise. You know, that's how the government pretty run, This how

economics pretty much runs. The disenfranchised people are the people that they make money off of so we understand what's going on. So you know, the work that you're doing is phenomenal and we truly appreciate. I just want to ask something. They said, there was a negotiation between the Colombian government and the far rebels that you were pivotal in, and explain to us how that came about. Well, well, through the years has been UH strong guerrilla armed group

which was called FARK. So through the media and politicians, they keep telling telling us in our history that all the problems um the reason of all the problems, it was because the confrontation between the government and the left guerrilla group. So we are group of people from different UM organizations. We worked really hard to reach a peace process, a negotiation process, and then after years and years of

negotia negotiations, they come up with with an agreement. So what is going on now is that the both the government and the guerilla signed agreement, but it has been not implemented. So when they told us the problems, it was because the guerrilla was fighting. So we learned that it's it's the other way around that the province are really route in the economical issues, um in in in the control of politics, and the systematical killing of opposition.

So what we have none. We have an agreement that I was signed but not implemented because those of power, they they have the war is a business. Is a business better than peace. So as longer as they can um get profit for war, well, well they do implemented the word. So we struggle again and again for peace, but we say it is not any Peace is a piece that have to be rooted with justice, with social justice,

and we have to change this in Colombia. They say, if it's cheaper to buy bullets than to make a structural transformation like education for all, health, house in public service, is that will be the best for a real democracy. Well, those of power, they say, the cheaper to kill the poor than to to do all these transformation. So we all start all over again jelling for peace and for democracy because we don't have a real democracy, because in a real democracy you won't be shot for po poor.

But this is a reality in Colombia. So they call it terrorists, bundleros, vandalist, vandalism meandalism, yeah, vandalism yeah, no yeah, And they justify in the name of those who are um a street roberts or people. But but the reality is UM internal displacement which is huge in Colombia. Also is execute all executions UM people people have been executed, and also those who are on poverty are the greater face of the Columbian reality. And thus we are not

we're not giving up. We say, um, whatever it takes, it takes your your life, it takes your courage, it takes whatever. So the young generation they saying, we don't care, we don't in during the pandemia, they didn't even have food in a country we have lots of foods and fruits. And so the people, the young people say, not any longer.

We stand up for hunger. So we want sending better and they say and we we We went in now because has been waiting for a sations and generations for for this possibility to have a belt Columbia and was still was still fighting for that. And in the top of that we have UM international corporations interests that always came come before the national interests. So yes, like in Africa, we do have a lot of environmental sort of all sorts of rishness, but it goes everywhere but not here

for the people. So I mean you mentioned UM that a part of the problems that you experienced there in Colombia. UM is also the corporate the corporate hold on society and international corporations. Can you talk a little bit about that? And then the last thing mean for me, I'd like to hear about, you know, how do people receive you? People with power, how do they receive you? Because those of us who speak like you here in America, we

received death threats. UM. You know we are we are not always welcome in our own society because they want us to be quiet to you know, don't speak too much about these issues. So I wonder do you experience the same there in Columbia. So first the corporate peace, UM, and then also you know, how how what do you experience from a personal perspective being out there fighting for justice? Yes, I can give a number of examples, but I can

keep one. Uh for example, with mining, UM, people in which areas of Columbia with his mining, they suffered poverty because the corporations came and take the the oil, and take the goal and take emeralds. So it's such a huge contradition. But then when people protest in Colombia, is fame that right? Right? When um guns um, I don't know how to say squads. So they came and joined

with militarists. We call it paramilitarists. Militarist and paramilitarists. But one force to to eliminate people who protest, people who say no, people who who is in opposition. And also um For example, big companies they contract militaries for security and those militariest subcontract paramilitarized. So areas of lots of well are controlled by by these um by these groups,

so by the these armed groups. And also here we have in the top of that a huge problem and they have to be with with drugs because Colombia sadly is a country that grow coke. So this coke is turned into cocaine. But those who are hit the moons are the peasants, the low level, low level, the low level exactly, so we maybe laid in. And another problem I can explain because I investigate those types between between the mafia's in Colombia with that with an international agencies

for example in your country. So they these drug leaders and agencies like they pretend to find the drugs for example C I A and then ended up there is an alliance instead of fighting against the the drugs. So it's it's a more complicated problem problem no, black and white, the Colombians who grow and er dry dealers and they and the poor guys in the States. No, it's it's it's a huge problem that has to to be taken into account in a different way, not by criminalizing Colombians

and the peasants. And in this point, Um, it's very important that you will not that many many Colombians software the calls, the demand for for drugs, and those the buddhis are hit by these kind of politics. In Colombia, they fight um. North Americans fight UH, the war agains rots, the war against terrorism, and still fight the war against communists. So by fighting these three wars, those who who are hit the most are the poor, are the pleasants, are

the woman and Afro Colombian communities. So UM and I and I will move to to the other question that you that you asked me, the second one about my personal experience. I've been UM threat. I've been many times. Faith, I face many times UM the anassas threats that they told me because um um insurgent, because I fight for the fool, so I always they want to be too. They want you to be objective. You fight fifty percent

for this and fifty percent for that. And I always say I am totally with the victims, and I don't have to present myself as an as an objective woman because I fight for the rights, but especially for the social, political, and economical rights. That's right, Okay, So the US technology

of work talk about that. Yes, I I used to say that in many, in many moments, that we will dream for a day that we will we will fight just for for other things, not just for peace, peace and peace, but an international um let's say, recognition of my work as a human rights defender in Colombia. Many of us are human rights defender. That's why this country

is not in the words shape. So because my commitment to peace and human rights work, they give me, they recognize me in in a ceremony which which will be very very very important for me, for the people that I work with, and also for this strong need that we have to to connect internationally, because as you mentioned in the beginning, we fight for the same stuff in that by the end were in the same need of solidarity, in the same need of coming together for for rights

and for peace. And as much as we gather with international community, I used to say that not only represented by country, is by represented by people, by movements, by by the struggle. If we're going together for the struggle for for peace and justice, there will be possibility for a better word. So in that sense, I'm so happy to go and so happy to be a face and

a voice. Um. And we're still hoping that especially the North Americans, when they when they will understand the strong role they play in our countries in Latin America, but especially in Colombia, they will join for our peace and then really will be will be a step ahead. Wow. Wow. We want to thank you for your work, you know, because like you said, we do the same work over here. So to see that the same struggle just we know

that it exists. Were just hearing that there are other people who have the same passion for justice and civil rights and just the one to see that the people are represented properly and people have a voice, you know, to be the voice of the voice that we wanted to say thank you and hopefully we can connect because it's the same exact struggle all over this world. And just keep doing the work that you're doing it is appreciated and we're glad that you were celebrated. And continue

to do what you do. Stay safe out there. Dr Lilia Celano. We appreciate you coming on with us from Colombia. You stay safe and continue to keep fighting and know that you have friends here in the US that are here to support you. Yes. Wow, okay, what do I do? Continue? Continue, continue by, continue, take care of God bless doctor Lilia Celano.

Dr Lilia Celano, I love her name. Don't work man, you know, just it's crazy just hearing that and understanding that the same it's everywhere, and then you know, basically what she's saying is that Columbia, unfortunately is synonymous with this idea of like drug culture and and the mafia, and it's unfortunate, and of course the Colombian people are not.

But Colombia as a country has a history of drugs and of course the what is it, the coca cocoa, No, the coco, the coca, the coca which has been turned into cocaine. That's a fact. And unfortunately, the little people that are peddlers, sellers, they are the ones that experience the you know, enforcement and they get arrested, they get criminalized. Which I'm not saying that if you're out there selling drugs that you should just be allowed to do it,

and it's okay, that's not the point. But nonetheless, those are the individuals that are criminalized, and the people who actually at the highest level of it, they just they actually at meetings with you know, the government of the US. Sometimes they're distributors. The low level distributors are always the ones who get in the years. These people are sitting relaxing with millions and billions of dollars after they're doing

major distribution around the world. Distribution. Yeah, it's definitely distribution, but I mean it has to be if there's a point when you're just not even like I'm trying to figure out I get the distribution part. I understand, like I'm just using a movie, like I see distribution on the level of suprime. I mean, what was his name? You want to rumble, you know, you wanna rumble with me?

What's his name? Scar Fades? Right, So I understand the that is a million dollar billion dollars, But that's what I'm talking about. It there's a okay, So then Frank Lope has not even told my frank Lock and then they he was getting it from other distribute the people that wanted to blow up the d a person, because they were the main distribute that you never seen that he had did the investigation on. You never seen them.

They had estates in different countries. They told him it was worth ten billy and this one was worth a hundred million. These were the main players, and they was giving it. Okay, I'm gonna go higher, Okay, so then who okay, that's fine. Those people are literally involved some kind of way in the distribution of drugs down through layers to the people who peddlers on the streets. But I'm saying that there is a force right, which I

believe unfortunately is the government. Of course, the thing is this, but they're not distributed. They're not distributed as what they do is. And some of them are distribute this because the government has access to the place where the kota is growing. They know the main place, the main places they're going, They own the real estate and all that. So what they do is they grow it and somebody they give it to somebody else and say hey, we just need this mom back or no, you can't say

that that's what's happening. No, you can't. Can't. I want to live in a world where you listen to me. What do you think what is the difference between uh a drug dealer and big pharm what's the difference. Pharmacy sells the same drugs that you said. They just said, they sell the ingredients that's in crack. Yeah, you listen to me. There are drugs that you get from the pharmacy that have maybe not crying, but I get your

point exactly. They sell the same exact thing. So right now people are using prescription drugs, but that's the main exactly. So the bottom line is it comes from people somebody's cutting. We're gonna take this out of here. We're gonna we're gonna have this since the street value. We're gonna do this league and we're gonna give this to these people because we're gonna triple and quite druple the money over here, and we still want But that's against some kind of

somebody needs something about that. I'm not really educated on this, but I know it exists. But I'm just trying to say, like they do go to jail. The person who got caught with it over there, and he can't tell you gave it to him up there because it's way too

beyond him. So by the time they catch it and like where you got this from, he's just gonna say I got it from Jojo, who is just somebody else, and he's gonna say, well, I got it from such and such, and then those people somewhere of course that they don't have no distribute, They don't have no um communication not communication. You don't have authority to the US the word I'm looking for jurisdiction exactly. They don't have the jurisdiction over with that, so it just stays over there.

Like the reality, if you look at all of this Pablo Escobar on them, they was they was made people. They didn't have a u S, didn't have distribution to get to padwarm they I mean exactly, they didn't have jurisdiction to get to them. And they had to form all kinds of federal task force and all types of things to work with them. But there was somebody hiring him.

He was paying off government officials. He literally was paying off government officials to say, Yo, we're gonna put this on planes, Wh're gonna put this here and they were just turning their head. The whole government was correct. The whole government was correct. But those are other countries exactly. That's what I don't want to believe that my American government. I don't want to believe that my American government for

the country that I fled. I don't fly to flag, but the flag is flown, and we salute the men and women. Thank Lucas. He went over across the seas, brought it back, paid people to put it on ships when it got paid the money. But this was the reality of what was going on. It's the same strategy you think that boatload. Sometimes they got to catch Remember when the bank the bank, the bank had boat the tanks or you know, what are those things called the

what are those things called the trailers? When you see them in the water. They had the containers in the water with all the going and then all of a sudden it just went away. I never heard what was the follow up? Who went to prison? Is nothing? But that's not my government. Oh lord, if you look at the Watergate scandal, is just thinking about like this is your government. They said that they brought drugs here to distribute here, like this is documented that the government brought

drugs to our community. I mean, okay, so I understand that. And when I see that, I see it as a lower sort of level issue. What do you mean lower The government said that they intentionally put drugs into our right. So but I'm trying I'm saying that, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay,

they put the drugs. I get that. But what I'm trying to understand, so you're saying that basically, somewhere in the atmosphere a person or people that we don't really know, they are in relationship with and in bed with people from other countries, and that there is a distribution that's happening that's black market or underground. I mean, that's some deep ship. But that is really much pretty much converse

we're not getting. We have one of the biggest intelligence in the world, and the right running down the street from robbing the store, and they liked what you telling me. They don't see hundreds of thousands of key loads of drugs just being shipped in here every day. But then okay, but my you can't see he and tell me that office is so and so who watches the screens and the things is the one that's responded not catch cops. Every day, every day you catch crooked cops who taking

breaks or been distributed it. I was locked up in jail with it was ceo who was literally bringing drugs to the jail. They was they was giving it to. And when the dude got caught, he told if he told on the CEO, the CEO just be like noticing if he stopped, and they couldn't get nothing. That the person who got caught with is the only person that with the jail. The seal there' start monitoring and catch him. But once he knew that this person got caught, most

of them just like I'm done. I'm done now, so he good. The little man is on the total post, the one who goes down, just like Jamiller tells about her story and she they told her how to skim the skim, skim the scim. This is what we do and she got caught with it. She said, look, this is what they've been doing. Like, no, we're good where we aren't worried about that. You though you're gonna go and get this this devil. I mean, I know what you're saying is right, I do, but sometimes I like

to I want to be able to feel that. I don't. I just don't want to believe everything is just as bad as it is. Well, that's where the problem is. And you know, they said the biggest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist. And that's where we live, and we live in in a matrix. Right, people want to believe so much like the promise of freedom and all of this, we want to believe that, like we want to believe that that's

actually what the country is. We want to vote in politicians and people and say, oh, this person really could do that. When you look at the whole infrastructure and what's based on the reality is that this country was never based on the principles that they stay understand to us. It's just even if those principles actually arrive in the beloved community we have, the whole structure of this country

has to fall. It's built on capitalism. Capitalism is built on poverty is built on there being a lower class of people who need to spend everything in funnel and and pretty much fun the whole everything else. So if you eliminate poverty in the lower class, there's no structure for capitalism. M hmm, well, I'll hear you, but I just I'm like, because if you when you tell me all of this, I can't. Obviously there's not a machine

that's doing it. There's a human that is involved. And we see these humans because they are not invisible people. They are they are I mean, maybe we don't see them, but they are. They are among the world, like us, the country. There's somebody who has responded school for the stuff. And it's really because and the reason why, of course it impacts us is because when you talk about Frank Lucas, it actually trickles down to mothers and fathers and children

who are on drugs, who have left their families. You know, we talked about the eighties probably the only time in history where we have watched mothers sell their babies in the ways in which happened in that era, in the crack era. I mean, we just this has really hurt us,

and no one is responsible for it. Because even previous governments that have had to admit to pushing drugs into our communities, they died before the there was any sort of I want to say reckoning, but they really hasn't been a reckon and there's just been some exposure of the strategy. Right when you look at tax breaks. When we talk about how Trump, I don't know it was something stupid. Think about that, right, This is a multimillionaire almost billionaire person who who is able. He said, I

utilize the system. He knows the system. He utilized the system that was built for him to benefit him. You can utilize the system that the average person can utilize because they don't have any resources. They don't have anything in order to you love that. So this country is not built for the point. It's not built forever. And if everybody had the same opportunities, then it will crumble. They can't. Equality does not work for capitalism if it

has to have me saying I want more than you have. Right, if we gotta work for you. You spend my money everywhere, but in my own community, I gotta do everything. I gotta get bag and a poopy tool so I can say you don't have it, and I do and I'm here. Yeah. The thing is you like it because there was a time you didn't have it, because you see it and it's a status symbol. It represents comfort. But the nice what what about it is nice. The niceness of it.

It's not that it just looks. It looks nice. Right. And then when you say, well the courses this status it costs like courses. You understand what I'm saying. It's a status symbol. People recognize something that gives me some level of esteem and prestige. No, yeah, I don't see. I don't say you don't think so when you buy, so when you so, when you buy people, so listen

to me, So tell me this. When people buy fifteen thousand dollar bags, I don't have a I'm saying when people they are people have that, I don't have that right there, People have ten thousand other bands, people have five each other like like you know, I'm I'm a comfortable because because the bottom is it's not because we understand it's a status sim When people say that, they go, whoa that course this they don't look at said that bag is just marvelous to look at. It's the most beautiful.

I don't know what you're talking about, because my bags that are expensive, I'm not gonna see him a lot at an actual question, are you able to say that you have bags that courts less, that look better than so that's the best looking bag you've ever Yes, I would say that. The reason why I'm saying that to you is because I'm not motivated by the same thing that other people are motivated by. Most stuff that costs a lot of money is ugly. Not most of the thing.

Listen to me, most of the ta Why are you talking to Janice all the way over there, because I'm trying to say this. I'm just being but I just cannot. Just as much as I like a broken bag and it's cute, I don't see nothing better than her Man's bag. That course, five thousand others less. I probably would buy that more. I look at louisva turn bag and I like the designs better than the bag. That course, I've seen bags. I've watched bags, of course, of course I've looked.

I'm just saying I'm talking about I'm talking about visually. Listen. Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen.

First of all, I'm I'm the expert on this issue here, okay, and let me let me let me just let me just say, let me just say yes, say, let me just say I am definitely a high low shopper, right, So I got stuff that is all different types of prices, and I have things that have no name that are very very nice and it doesn't matter, and we can we can, we can all do that, right, So I absolutely I agree with you, But you're not about to sit here and tell me that my birkin is as

is not as fancy as something that I also have a closet. That's two You're just not gonna do. That's your personal opinion. And I could say that I don't agree, right, My thing is this, This is what I'm gonna say. There are things in our society, right they're probably course more than yeah, of course less right, but right now,

the broken is the status symbol. There are things that we don't know nothing about that people have seen that course more of course less that just look beautiful and most people don't go get it if you look at the bags that most people have. True, Okay, that's not true. Do you have do you have? I'm trying. I'm just going to ask you a question. Do you know people within the circle that by offening bags that just look cute? Yes, you want to know what the new bag is that

we buy. Everything has a name, but people don't get you a Conway bag it's got a name. It's the Conway bag, and every and you feeling the Conway back. But that's what I was getting ready to tell you. The Protect Black People bag, which Dwanna Thompson bought me one and I see black people wearing them all over. It is not a big you know, it's not a

birking No, it's not. And of course I understand the point of what you're saying, but I'm just telling you that that is a bag that people have bought, that is that is not a major ten thousand dollar brand that black women really like. So I'm just I don't see advert You don't see advertised advertised young in the world. I was thinking about a different type of advertisement. All I'm saying is that first of all, we we we as black people, deserve luxury, which I don't think you're

saying we don't we deserve luxury. And when I walk into a store, if I'm looking for something that I need to wear to a nice event, I don't have a problem with the H and M dress that it's just fabulous, and I have pictures I can pull them up and show you that there's been my H and M dressed. Now my H and M dressed might be mixed with you know, a lube shoe, a red bottom or something like that, but I still know how to

mix it all in. And I think it's all about your taste and your fashion, your style, and where you're going to find the best types of things that help you feel confident in self. But it's not Oh, I'm gonna go to the store and no matter because there are people out here like that, no matter how ugly it is or how unattractive it is. I like to use word ugly, but no matter how unattractive it is, I'm gonna get it just because everybody else is getting it.

That's not me and most of my friends they don't shot like but I do need another burden. I'm just messing. I'm just saying tags and ladies are pretty much what defines most of the things right, and that's the row in and that's how pretty much life is right and was high end was high end is something that's celebrated. So when we bring it back to what we were talking about, those at the top on people that are celebrated, they're not gonna get locked up, they're not gonna get

facing the consequences and talking about drugs. It brings me to my I don't get it, which we did? This is what we might even have enough time for this, I don't get it. But where did they make K two at first? Of all? Who who knows what they're making? I don't know. But it's some research that needs to be done, because listen to me. I have seen in the last couple of days, in weeks, I've seen the effects of K two that are just unbelievable, like it is.

It's it's a phenomenon to me. I've watched people in the corner go through whole routines as if nobody else is dead, like the high when you've seen this before though, because no heroin epidemic. It's just they're not. And I've seen you know they're not, and they almost fallen, you know, they almost no a K to person that's they do a little more completely in another world. He is in another world. She They are in completely a whole another world.

They're so far from themselves that it is unbelievable, Like it is like Dr Jeko because you um, you and I and Angelo you Angel because you Angelo and I just sat the other day after leaving one your meeting, and we watched these three people do some real strange things and there was it was And I just don't get it. I don't get how is it even legal? Like you can literally by K two at a regular store. Yeah, and this is this is unbelieving. It's probably more dangerous

than the rest of the job. I don't see a drug that it's more than It may be as dangerous as K two, but I don't see a drug right now that I've seen that has the effect on people that is worse than K too. Yeah, And I really just don't get it, man, Like somebody need to tempt you tell me where we're like, we're has does it come from? If they say it's sort of like potpourri, No, it used to sell the potpourri, but they still sell popourri.

I'm sure, but that's what it is. They sm basically something like that, it's like potpourri, and then shout out to Victoria Panell and Mary foranal our friends in the movement. They've been on this fight against K two for a long time, for many years, and in fact, a lot of people, uh, excuse me, or what's his name? I can't think it's another guy that is coming not coming to my head. And then of course Kirston John Foy.

There's been a number of leaders that have been on this k TO issue for years because at one point now there for people who are listening that don't live in New York. If you could just for a moment

really think about this. There is a street in New York City which is Lexington Avenue and a hundred and twenty street, two block, and there's a shelter that's right in the middle of it that when when it used to be a path which was path Mark would be a supermarket, but there was a there was a shelter that was there too many years ago, and they gave the top part of the shelter to my youth group at the time, the Youth Move which was through the

National Action Network. So we used to be there every Friday and Saturday doing our work in the shelter that was full of people who were addicted to all kinds of things. So we got to see up close in person and to your point, still never did I see people that look like they look on the k too, so on the at the corner stores. So for people who are listening, they've never been, you don't know how twin fishy and of course for people who do you

know exactly what we're talking about. There's four corners and at least two of the corners have stores regular bodegas as we call them, right, which is that's the that's the little the little street, the little corner store. You go get all your stuff, your quick purchases. The store was selling it over the count Like, but they say cigarette. They I mean, there's so many people are like, well, they sell cigarettes, they sell something, you know, they sell beer,

the liquor store sells liquor. All these things are killing people. So that's the that's the balance of the conversation. They like, there's a bunch of stuff that we sell in all everywhere that's killing people. That'sation because you know what I'm about. But six ft, that's all I'm gonna say. But I'm just saying this, and it's not just it's a lot

of things that it's being so exactly. But to your point that you're not getting into is that there are multiple things that in our society is being sold that's harming people, right, And so folks feel like why they can't sell the k too legally walking the store and the over the counting in the they don't sell crap over, ain't selling no herond needles over, they ain't selling you know what I'm saying, Um on thirties over the counter, He's not selling. They're just not selling it. You know,

a little bit, a lot too many things. It wasn't always well. I you know, I think we have covered a lot. I think we covered too much, man, just because there's so much, too much. Shout out to our Shout out to Sean twenty one years for the Sean album, the anniversary. Shout out to him for coming up. Shout out to Doctorian work that she does Columbia everywhere. Shout out to everybody who's been watching and downloading the podcast.

We're moving up to number one week. I shouldn't be laughing because we do need to move up to number one, But it's funny, because you know it's not funny. Number one podcast in the world. Number one, and all right, we appreciate y'all. Make sure that you'll keep tuning in. Let us know what you want to hear. Tell us you like us, tell us you love us, tell us you don't like us and just give us some feedback. Just turn next, just go tell me like me. I

could take it. I could take it. Man. We appreciate y'all. And as always, I'm not gonna always be right to me. Is gonna be wrong most of the time. Sometimes she might be right. But we were both always and I mean always, always, always. That's how we owned it. Listen to Street Politicians on the Black Effect Network on I Heart Radio and catch us every single Wednesday for the video version of Street Politicians or I Women dot Tv