The Community Responsibility of Law Enforcement

If you haven't watched the actual long form episodes or listen to them, you have the opportunity to really kind of get a glimpse of what was covered. But I do definitely, definitely, definitely advised that people would sit and listen to each one and to listen intently. I wrote notes, um, I contacted other individuals and connected people. We pulled folks together, made sure that the people we met in the first episode got to meet individuals from the third or fourth

because that's what it's all about. It's about organizing, it's about convening hearts and minds. And um, I certainly am proud of the work that we're doing in terms of slowing down a little bit from you know, just trying to be on the beat. We want to make sure everybody you have a podcast, you have a show, you have uh, you know, any type of public facing work. You want people to see it, to admire it, you want people to to get engaged. Um and I think

that this special is certainly engaging. But I can also understand that it may not reach every single person the way that a different show that we're working on does. But that doesn't mean it's less important. More important. Yeah, the spikes that we're seeing around the country have to do with our directly associated with the after effects of the COVID crisis. Unfortunate that you were ride in your hood and know who you're gonna be raising money for to bury One day, I almost lost my mom when

I was tad. She was shot twice in broad daylight. Saw I came in, came in kind on my first misses of dumb violence. I saw my mania didn't get murdered right in front of We have to understand that mentality, that lifestyle, right, and when you have a lifestyle that you don't see as criminals, nothing you do is looked at. It's wrong. More police doesn't mean the violence is gonna it's gonna decrease. All they're seeing is people died at

the hands of gunfire. We have to understand that the language tells them that the best way to protect themselves is to carry that gun as well. Now I have a bullet in my leg and a rod from my knee to my hip, and I know I can't run, No, I can't go to the gym. And they see self conscious moments that I felt like I knew with the other women out there that I need to speak to.

There is no code for gun bounce survivance. Who just happened to be shot like me, who just happened to be in a situation on vacation, who just happened to be leaving school, who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Our deep winds required deep, deep, deep killing. And until we get the voice of Whu Shan Duke is advocating for and g MAC and who trigger is advocating for, really at the table, we're gonna continue to see this manifestation of despair and you and

the gun is a solution. We have to intervene immediately. We know it's getting ready to go now and to watch it happen, almost makes us co conspirators in it. But this is the reality of everyday violence. There are people experiencing this, this crime every day. I fell in love with this process of being able to save lives because it was a conflict between two groups and I knew both for the guys, and I was able to

stop people from killing each other. And I'm gonna be honest, I never felt anything remotely closed to the joy and satisfaction that I got from saving the life. Yeah, and that's just, you know, just a little bit of what we cover a little glimps. Next episode, we'll be talking about the cannabis industry, which is also important, and these things are connected because, um, you know, when we talk when we're talking about poverty, we're talking about violence, we're

talking about um inequities in our community. When we look at the cannabis industry, that is one way that we can uh find an opportunity for equity, for uh for for building generational wealth and so um, you know, I think we were trying to do a good job of curating and experience within Strey politicians that gives people the opportunity to learn, grow and go do something well what

it is that you're finding out. So in this sixth episode today, we're talking to someone from law enforcement, UM, someone who was a former chief highest levels, went through the ranks, traveled through all the ranks of the NYPD in the city that we live in, UM. And I think that's an important conversation. But also we're talking to another young man who I found out from you. I've

known this brother for a long time. I had no idea that he had actually been in prison, UM, and that he had been on both sides of the gun, a shooter and a victim. UM. And we're learning some some things about his situation today. So I'm excited for the show. Yes, when you gotta tune into this, when

this is gonna be epic. You know, I think brother Um Sampson styles, we're talking about somebody that IM watching, knowing his history and just seeing how he kept his authenticity in this industry and he took his whole aura and street persona and made it cool and on a big screen. So you know, that was always something that I looked up to me before I even got into the field. I mean, while I was in prison, and you know, not really I was signed, but I was

never really able to get out. There's always somebody that looked up to, like, Yo, this dude is doing it. So I'm definitely interested in that interview. And you know, people run to be in front of the camera. Um, and while Samson certainly has been in front of the camera, it's the behind the scenes stuff that, uh, that can make you money, things that you might actually have better skills.

As some folks go out, they do an audition to get in front of the camera, to be an an actual character or you know, to play a role, and when they have turned down, they feel like, man, you know, I wanted to be in the industry, and now because I can't be an actual artist or entertainer, then you know, my career is over. But they don't think that way. I might actually be better at financing movies, Um, I might actually be better at seeking out talent, training people

directing films. I love watching Tianna Taylor's process that she's going through now where she's learning from other o g uh, you know, production folks, how to be a producer and how to um to transform the skills that she already has into directing and what have you. And I love that about her because very similar to the point her

music career, which I love her freaking music. I mean I loved her last man, her last album was amazing, but she was really frustrated about the lack of support that she received for her album and the way that she feels like her career is not you know, it's not going in the direction that she wants it to travel, right, And instead of her just being like I'm hanging it all up and I'm going home, she's back from a different direction. That's what it's supposed to be about. That's

what it's always about. Sometimes we have to reinvent ourselves, you know, sometimes we have to realize that even though you love to do it this way, but this is God's calling for you to do it that way. So, you know, those are the people that survived in this industry in the world period, you know, constantly evolving, constantly saying, hey, this what's going on? I don't even know how to

do this. I tell my kids all the time, and tell my son, you want to do music, then get you a friend that shoots videos, Get you a friend that makes beats. Y'all can make yourself a conglimerate, make yourself a team and know how to do every aspect so that you make sure that you are always an asset. Yeah right, you gotta corner the market. Yes, So that brings me to my thought of the day. If you watch the news all that you might go crazy because the news is a little like crazy, it's a lot

going on. It could give you real anxiety. And what I realized from Donald trumpian president, is that whatever is happening with our like elected officials in the highest offices in your local community and door federally, it impacts people's mental stability and or not right. So a lot of issues that we have and questions that we have about COVID nineteen, about the economy, about so many things comes from the fact that we were dealing with a kid,

really like a grown irresponsible child. So now the Republican Party wants to come back and say, well, you need to get vaccinated, because I'm sure they've done some research they figured out that. You know, now you start to see Fox News Channel and others talking about, you know, get vaccinated. All of them have been vaccine. That's the

other thing. They're all saying, they've been vaccinated, right um, and now they're telling people still they don't agree with the mask, but they think you should get vaccinated because it definitely reduces the ability to have mutations and spread, you know. So they've got there, they've got their reasoning

for why they feel people should get vaccinated. But I think all of it started because of the all of the doubt, certainly aside from the fact that black people have doubt anyway, that's a fact, but also just some collective doubt has come from how President Trump at the time addressed the entire virus. How he was out there, you know, spending his time talking about the China virus and just doing insane things. That was not giving people clear direction on what to do. It wasn't being taken

seriously enough. There are folks who, um, I think got caught up in the middle of the foolishness rather than all of us being properly educated by the folks that the in the highest office in the land. So I'm giving that as a pretext to my thought of the day, um, because now we've got another crisis here in the city and what in the state of New York, and that is Governor Cuomo uh and the women who have accused

him of sexual assault and sexual harassment. Now I bring up this idea of strong leadership because, um, I think that whenever you have a situation where people like how we are here in New York. The virus has really messed up this this state. Like we You can say what you want, Oh, it's real, not real all of the thing. Everybody's got a theory, but the impact of it is real. Things are closed, you can't get things you need, kids in and out of school, stuff closing

up and down. People not having jobs, people need workers. It's a lot going on within this state. And I'm sure it's everywhere, but this is where I live, so we're speaking directly here. So now you've gotta scandal with the governor in a sexual assault thing. Mind you, when we were seeing him on TV doing such a wonder food, y'all, remember, everybody was like, look at the Governor's all right? People would call people were calling me. I'm not saying you said,

but I'm just telling you. People were calling me from Alabama here and there, nan your governor, Look at your governor. The problem is, to go back to my original point. They were comparing him and his ability to sit down and have a charismatic conversation and lead to a full president who was acting like a big dummy and a clown. So they told in their minds they saw some leadership and they're like, wow. Meanwhile, we've been saying that Governor

Cuomo was complete trash. We've been saying that, We've been telling you each trash. We've been telling you that he has been behind racist policies. We've we've been telling folks that. And I had to stop family members and say, y'all don't know this dude. Do not let his nice looking Yeah, he knows how to speak, and well he don't wear it really good. He just wears a button shirt and roll up. He got the he got a fly white boy, older white boy look. And so people were really tricked.

And I was having conversations with even my own family members being like, yo, this guy number one. He has pushed pushed racist policies in New York. He has been divisive in terms of developing um or or or incentivizing Democrats to sort of leave the very liberal side of decision making and voting on issues and lean more towards conservative politics. He literally was giving people and they will say he didn't do that. Uh, you know, you're saying

he did. He didn't assign offices. It was at his direction. Okay. They were giving people corner offices, you know, better access they can meet with the Governor Moore to be a part of something called UH the I d C. Which was an independent part of the government where we send people, we vote for somebody and send them to Albany, which

is the state capital of New York. We send them up there and say that they are UM a Democrat, and next thing you know, you find out they up there caucusing with the Republicans, making decisions that are against what the Democrats needed. And by the way, the individuals that they were able to sort of move to a more conservative side. It took the power away from a black woman who was in charge of the Senate. She had the power. She was basically the strongest senator in

New York. Okay, this black woman, UM, and she's the majority rep um Uh Andrea Stewart cousins. And it took away so many votes that they were no longer in the majority, so they could not vote on progressive policies. Okay. And the governor orchestrated this himself. I could go down the list things that the governor has done to be divisive, to be on the wrong side of history, um, to be you know, against anti giving us money and resources to deal with gun violence. Now, all of a sudden

it's become a priority on his list. I wonder why, until he started courting the idea of running for president, he was, damn there a Republican governor. That's the way he was governed in New York, Okay. And you get and don't ask me, go get some of the Democratic elected officials who've been up there in Washington fighting him, the ones who had the I was getting ready to use the word balls. That's the wrong words to use.

Excuse me, So let me say the well who have the courage, who have the courage to speak the truth about what the governor was really doing. So when they come out and say that he was sexually harassing and assaulting women, I'm not gonna say that. I just immediately believed it because you don't know, right. But after listening to the stories, after listening to some other people who are around, in my mind, I was thinking that the same trash that could do these things could potentially be

doing this stuff too. But they said, let's have an investigation. And Tis James Leticia James, who is the Attorney General, a black woman of New York State, who, by the way, the governor's supported and also helped to get elected. So don't give me the bullshit about oh, she's just against him and this. No, she that was her man. And there's been many times that I wanted Tis James to come out against the governor and she didn't say anything, and that caused a point of contention between me and

her politics. Okay, So to be clear, this is not about permanent friends. It's about permanent interests. And so when they said, when Tis James said she's gonna come out with a report, I was skeptical. But I sat back and I said, if anybody's gonna do it right, I

believe a black woman will. And guess what a bunch of before she could get her report out the gate, a bun to black leaders people I love and respect, came forward to support the governor and did so much as going out of their way to make it seem like he was some type of golden child. Okay, before they allowed the actual investigation to happen, and we're supposed to be supporting and believe in women and all of that.

But these individuals, black folks got together and went out and supported the governor prior to again allowingness other black woman to come forward with her report. And now the report comes out and the cell phone stuff and and and testimony and other things evidence to show that he

was in inappropriate conversations and relations. And there are women who say they didn't even want the attention, They didn't even want the passes that were being made at them, and the harassment and the cornering that they felt, and the way that they felt at work, and and then after they came forward with their stories, rather than in him being ostracized, these women were moved out of their offices.

They were and this is what they do all the time when this is why people do not like to come forward, especially about powerful men and abuse, because what they did was they ostracized the women. They made the women feel uncomfortable at work, they moved their deaths, they isolated them, and he was allowed to run around with his black friends who came out and said he was

the greatest things, the greatest thing since sliced bread. And now the black woman's report, who is his friend, who he helped to get in office, who he supports and she supports him. They was cool, and that woman had to come forward and say, you know what, after my investigation, I believe I know that he did this. And when you think about that, you know, it took a lot,

of course it did. It means that there has to be some level of evidence or that pushed her to actually, you know, say, nah, this has happened to me, because when somebody supports you, get you in the position, you know, when you have a level of loyalty to come out and say that, you know, the you know, the whole investigation must to uncover some things that she couldn't even deny. You know, it wasn't up for graduates. It could have

been this. I believe that this investigation had to show some things that was telling to the point where it's like, there's no way I can act like this in absolutely no, I mean that is the absolutely, that's the bottom line, that this is a man who helped a black woman from Brooklyn, a black girl from Brooklyn. Let's start there.

Who who who rolls through the ranks of city government became the public advocate and then became the actual Attorney general of New York State, which is one of the absolute most powerful states in the world, okay, with the most powerful city in the world, the top cop. And it was the governor who helped carry her to that position, along with other black women and black folks who supported

her as well. I'm not saying that the voters weren't there, but it takes political posturing and power in order to become the attorney general as a black woman, the first ever. Okay, let's be clear. So for her to come out with these states, this statement and to say that her findings is that the governor um engaged in inappropriate sexual uh uh with its harassment, she didn't even use. I didn't hear her say assault, which, by the way, the women say that they were groped and that would be assault.

But I'm sure she's trying to be careful because legally and whatever else, and maybe even personally, she's got to be careful. So she says sexual harassment. For her to do that, that's very hard because by the way, that white man sat on TV and said, he's not stepping down, he's not doing anything. He's going forward because he didn't do anything wrong, and he damned there, and from what I can hear, made it seem like these women, if

I did do it, that's what they wanted. And here you are the attorney general who has to run for office and other things that needs to be able to do your job and operate, and now you have an enemy that you've made out of a man who we all know to be somebody who definitely absolutely carries grudges against people, because that's who, uh Andrew Cuomo is. Okay, so she didn't just do that. And so what I'm just trying to figure out as a part of my thought of the day, is what do these black leaders

have to say? Now? What do they have to say? Now? I mean, I think for me, it's always touch it's very touchy subjects when it comes to accusation, especially in in you know, political parties and things like that, because you have to be careful, you know, you have to really be careful who you put your support. Maud. You know, I've learned that I'm not really a political person, you know, but I've watched over the years people support people, you know, blindly,

you know, just out of faith and friendship. You gotta be real careful because these are people that we're putting in charge of our government, in charge of us, so you gotta be real careful. A lot of these black leaders, like you said, they want support, and they support when you when you get him getting behind Tish and they said, Okay, this is somebody that's that can be an ally, you know, so they want to come out. They want to believe him.

He says I didn't do anything wrong, bone he seems adamant, but other people want to believe him. So, you know, I think a lot of them are probably are definitely gonna be disappointed. Have to eat you know, I have to eat crow and sit around and tell people who they probably know who are making these accusations that now you gotta say sorry to some people. But well then I don't even know because I think I was gonna say something that would probably get me in a lot

of trouble. So I'm not gonna say it. But and it's not even about to get me in trouble. But I also have love for a lot of these leaders, and so I don't want to make statements that I don't know to be true. But I know what I think. But I will say this, The problem that I have is not that they want to support the governor because they've worked with the governor for years. Many of them have strong relationships with him. He's been helpful to in different ways. I'm not saying he's been all bad, of

course not. I mean, certainly there's been things that the governor has done to help New York stay progressive, um, you know, in terms of his ability to communicate uh and the ways in which he deals with disaster. But so was Giuliani when it came to disaster relief after non eleven. That's how Giuliani became beloved because he came to the scene and was on it, on it, on it, and people were like, Okay, they like this mayor. Meanwhile,

this guy, let's not get into it. But I mean, we talked about we talked about a white supremacist, a starch, a staunch racist. Okay, so this this is a whole different set of issues. But I'm just saying, and I'm not in any way comparing Cuomo and Giuliani to one another. But what I am saying is that the comparison can be that just because someone does good when you're watching them, from one angle doesn't mean that there are not other things that are extremely harmful happening as well. It's the

same thing with us. You might look at us and say, well, I like street politicians, but I don't like what they're doing with until freedom. And you have every right to be able to say that. And I what I wear I have a problem is that. And my specific concern is why not wait until the report from a black woman who's the attorney general that we all supported came out. Because the people want to be on the custom. They want to no I I think they want to get

some support. That's some of them, some of them, some of them, but there's also some of them that have a problem with support white people. First, they are they are trained that the white man's ice is cold there, and that's a problem. That's definitely, that's a problem. That's what I got. I mean, we we deal with Stockholm, you know that most of us in our community deal with that, you know, and this is no different. I've watched it happen throughout history. We see it happen every day.

We see people that will attack us, you know, we see people that will attack us or have done things to us. That work with white people who do way worse than us, you know. So it's it's it's a sad reality. Man. Hopefully you know, justice has served, and hopefully it is because the process. But I'm not I don't really have faith in a lot of these things. I don't know obviously any of these women. But I do know that he the governor, his personality is one that does whatever he wants to do. He is a

white man who knows that he's a white man. You know, I was on the line in the airport, um, when leaving New York to take my mom to visit her sister just a few weeks ago. Oh maybe it was last week, I don't know what. It isn't matter, um, and a white man was in front of us, and the line all of a sudden there was just complications. I hate, I absolutely hate going to John F. Kennedy. This is not a place that I like and it's

just too much UM. And so you know, there was drama on the line and we got delayed extra time because of all the drama. And the white man who's in front of us turns around and looks at me and he goes, you know this, this like these people are skipping us, that we've lost control here, and I say, yes, so this is ridiculously so let me go get somebody. So he goes off. He goes to get somebody and the lady at the counter tells him start sart, excuse me,

excuse me, sir. I need to finish what I'm doing over here and then I'll get back to He's like, yeah, but people are skipping. She refused to answer his question. Another lady comes. He tells this lady she's still nobody's dealing with the problem that he speaks that. Finally, finally, I say to one person, and you know I'm saying different from other people. I gotta I know, you gotta put a little bit of black woman and maybe a

little ghetto so people can know you're not playing. So I had I had to be like yo, like this is not working and really make them fix the problem. The white man turns around and says to my mother and I overhear him saying I'm a white man and couldn't get good service. He said that, you know, normally white people get good service. So if I'm not saying that, and I don't even know how you expect to get it,

and it's basically you, you the man. The white man turned around and looked at my mother and said, I'm a white man. It can't even get good service at this airport. Okay, So that means more than likely in his life. I think he probably is a liberal white man who was trying to make a joke. But the point of the matter is that he wreck not says he's white and he can use it this way or that way, but in in clomo situation, he uses his

whiteness to to have extreme power. And you could go to the governor with all types of issues and problems trying to you know, I've seen the elected officials trying to work with him, and he takes a position that I'm king, and so therefore it's not hard for me to believe that when it came to these women, he

thought he was king as well. And I just feel like we should let the Queen, the attorney General, a black woman, had the last say on whether or not he actually um did anything wrong, and then he should have to defend himself. But that's that's that. It's gonna be a little controversial because I've seen a couple of your friends up there, you know, listen. But before we go to the next segment and have our special guests joint,

we're gonna take a quick break for our sponsors. You know what, we really literally have a lot of friends that do a lot of great things, you know. And I know sometimes we always say what we need to find people that we don't necessarily agree with on issues and make sure they are part of the show, But I do. I always wanted to create a platform that

gives voice to folks that people don't see often. Right, people need to know that there are individuals out here who helped to keep us going even though things may not be perfect. Uh, there's a lot of work to be done. There are individuals that really fight for us every single day and people who um you know, are helping to try to move the ball forward and to keep us uh and keep us alive because definite for real,

for real. And you know again, a friend of ours that is joining us today for a conversation and someone that I know really well. I have a funny joke to tell um, which I'll say second, but I want

to introduce him. He is UM, a former chief UM at the n y p D. The new York Police Department, and I smiled because we have had the absolute most uh, serious and contentious debates, him being a police officer and me being an activist, and us working together on a number of campaigns and strategies over the years, we've had some heated, heated conversations about what what the direction should be,

both from the community and the police department. And the thing about Chief Phil Banks, Chief Philip Banks, the third I call him PP three because his daddy, Um uh, it's your grandfather, who must have been the senior, right, Your dad is the second who I love? Is this the finest man walking the earth? Um? He also was

a police officer. And then you have Phil Banks, who started out twenty nine well, for twenty nine years he worked within the NYPD, started out, of course, as a beat cop, then became a precinct commander, Borough commander, went to community affairs, which is where the beginning of our

relationship is. Where he's now over the police officers who are in the community all the time, and was leading an effort and did a very good job of reshaping what community affairs looked like in New York City and making sure that it was really, really for the community. And then of course before retiring, he became chief of Departments, UM, where he was literally, I guess I would say, second

to the commissioner running New York City. UM. And I got an opportunity to go from community affairs to chief of department. So I understand the intricacies of the NYPD and policing across the country based upon my relationship with you, Phil, and I want to thank you for coming on with my son and me today. UM. You know the thing. The thing I laugh about though, is because you know, many times I would go and say, well, you know, the police are doing this, that and the third thing wrong,

and He's like, who are you talking about Pookie? I know Pookie, Like I was out there with Pooky needs to be arrested because POOKI is a danger to society. I'm like, no, he needs services. He yeah, he might need all of that, but right now we need to get Pookie off the streets. Like, don't tell me about Pookie and Ray Ray. Because going through all of these steps from being a beat cop all the way to

chief departments, he knows the community. He lives in Queens, he has young kids, he has brothers who are in all different fields people and lives, and he knows and understands the street life very well. Works with Erica Ford. So this is not so you can't really talk him, you know, into these corners because he actually has the is to say that you have to be able to address at the same time, but clearly he understands the

need to put in the community. You understand the need feel to put in the community to resources that's necessary so that police are not in contact, um in the ways in which they are with individuals who need services and support. Right. Agree, absolutely, And you know, I think

you bring up an interesting point. And I think that until we as a as a city, as a country, as a community, as a world come to the conclusion on both sides that police ain't one can no longer be just a responsible of law forcement because they can't get it right right, you know what you know and importantly most people don't know what they don't know right, so they just fill in the blanks right. And it's subsequently we have now, in my opinion, um uh, a

dynamic with police reform and tough on crime. People think a mutually exclusive When I say tough on crime, I mean I mean keeping the citizen the safe. But you have to have peature from and in these cities. We are policing the same way we've been policing for fifty or sixty years, and it has to stop because it doesn't work. And our challenge that it never worked. It gave short time results, but I will challenge that has never had full time results. But that's an argument that

a lot of people can make. But I do know vehemently and I will strongly is that we have to

change the way we police to these cities. And that change has to come from a combination of the law enforcement world who's willing to admit mistakes, willing to realize that they don't have all the answers, and then the advocacy where the activists can be like itself they realize that there's an aspect of this that you may not realize what you can bring to the table, and we can bring to the able together that we can totally

change how we please. I actually don't see any other way that we can have any type of affair and ever and safe results for for this fair country. So from your point of view, just listening, you know, we we were in a very big stage of violence right now, all over, especially in New York City, violence is up really high. Their calls for more police, they are called for defunding police. There's call for all these things. You're being a former police officer and and identifying with the community,

what do you think is the next step? What do you think really needs to be done to either to stop the violence and build stronger police and community together. So there's no there's no one answer to that. But the first thing is this is that you have to have a system. When I say you the community right to people and even internally because internally you have police services that not that don't even trust the the concept

of policing. You have to build that trust. And that trust is not designed to take people to basketball games, not to take seniors to UH shopping. There's got to be a real trust that government is working for other people and that policing is here to help my life better. Right. The litmus tests has got to be when the average person who is not communting a crime, which is nine of us, nine cent of us, when they see a police services they feel relieved, that they feel happy, and

the police have to figure that out. Why why does that not happen. And I'm going to profess that they are a very simple solution that people are willing to stop and listen. It's not as complicated. Once you have that trust, then you have to be able to make these policies that are coming out that are beneficial for the community. So I'll give you a point in an example, when we in a police partment come out with the strategy and let's just say it's gun strategy to apprehend

guns off the street. There's no community involving it at all. We're just we're coming up with just the data the people who wear uniformed and this is what we think that's going to happen. There's gonna reduced amount of guss on the street. But there's no there's there's the religious community does no pint in that, the activist community does no pint in that, the grandmother community, he does not know point in that industry, there's no point in that.

And there's so much that we could receive from these individuals, from these entities that we can now come up with a very comprehensive, stronger strategy to being goes up the street where everybody's in the same boat and everybody now is going to live and die with those results. And we don't do that because we have been brought up in a system that we know what's best for you. So sit back and that mindset has got to has got to change immediately. M So when you hear defund

the police, what is it? How do you feel about that? Well? I don't see. I don't you know what I and I get to actual question a lot to you. I don't know what defunded police quote unquote what it means, right, so defund the police? I think that, Um, I'm not amissed. The saying is that the funding of policing UM has been overly funded. It's a very well possibility. I think every city agency, UM government agency needs to go through extensive reviews on whether or not one you're overfunded too,

whether that the money is being used correctly. But if the funded police is using the amount of punishment that we're looking to punish you because the past or even current misdias, then I certainly do not agree with that. If we do the review, we may realize that policing needs to be overfunded, but the manner in which you're

applying policing may not be in a point. Our example I'll give you is that if we found out and I'll just pick on money agen see, just because I like to pick on them, and when I'm picking on them, I'm picking on myself. In New York City Police Department, and I'm throwing out the number here, these numbers are

not factor. If they have ten million dollars for artificial intelligence to put up cameras in the community, and we're looking to use this artific school intelligence to to to to gather intel on people who are commit any crimes, well maybe that needs to be five million dollars, and maybe the key people in the community needs to understand exactly what the policies are and what the stakeholder and what's going that state of what we're trying to accomplish,

because they, in fact can give you some information that maybe enables you to do it differently and cheaper. So the funding at that point is not a punitive, it's just actually smart economically. But then we may realize that we may need to put fifty million dollars in that and not only is gonna come when you have multiple

people at the table. I'll just give you a quick example when I was tasked with the borough commander in Manhattan North and for the people who are not from New York and may not know a borrow commander in New York City police uparment is in charge of all of the police services in a certain area, and in New York City we break it up. Most of the bowlers are broken up into two, not all, but the

Manhattan's broken up in the tool. So I was responsible for all police and from fifty nine Streets up until to the areas of the Bronx from River the River and I was tasked with when I first took over the upcoming African American Day parade, and I remember the Police Commission at the time says that I want the violence to stop because we were averaging approximately twelve shootings uh during that parade. He said, we have to stop

the violence. And when I did the comprehensive plan, I didn't call him in my police commanders, because if they knew how to stop doing the parade, then I would never have been assigned there to stop it in the first I would. I did then extensive view with the community and I remember specifically it was it was it was multiple The whole plan was based on what, in fact, how the community would minimize violence. And it now when I did, I just use an example, you know, we

U was Adam thaking power. It's a very big street is divided by a center. And this came from a meeting I had on H Street and the person said it was a group of people order they they said, why don't you keep the second cart of that open on the the west side of the street because the parade is only going on the up the east side, but that traffic, in fact, we kind of regulate the ear to back to some type of normalcy and create

a whole different mindset. Therefore, now you have left areas we could actually use the traffic as sort of like a form of security. And it worked magnificently and every idea I used, and from that day we did not take one shooting. And I remember that morning the commissioner said to me, I mean that night after that he said, we didn't take one shooting. And I remember joke went in it says, I don't, I don't, I don't take

you this. I said, I I don't tolerate shootings or my watch and and see, I just want to be very clear about that, and I really minimized the contribution to the men and women of the Peace Bomber because that contribution is very full the ideas, the specifics, try this and do that. That came from the community. I was tasked with it and he did that because he tasked people stopping violence at um Uh the pre Uh West Indian Day Parade. I mean it takes place in

each Yeah, we did. We did seventeen nineteen shootings. And remember he met me in the morning and he says, we didn't take any shooting. I can't remember, and that was my joke. I don't tolerate shootings and the way we police that. When I say every I mean single suggestion came from the community. Now, I want to be very clear because then when people here they said, well he doesn't want to give the cops credit. Well, the contribution that we had, we already had, So that was

from the from within. I already already knew internally what we were doing. The extra I needed the extra and that came from going around to community block association groups, finding out the people called three on one because those are the key people constructive about the area, and each of them gives you a little better, a little bit of an ingredient, and then you sit back and say, Rob, I would have never thought of that, And all of

a sudden, now we took no shooting. So they the key is getting people in to open up these dig opens and dilaws and understanding one thing. You don't know everything. This is what I teld my commanders, and try to figure out what you don't know. Know what you don't know, because there's people out there that know it very well. And if you're willing to be able to you know, challenge your ego and keeping your third year open. Uh, we can we can do this? Can I say that

all the time? And you can't. You can't govern the community like the government is based on the community. It's for the people, by the people. You can't govern people the way that you want to govern them. You have to govern them the way that they see fit to be governed. So if you if you're talking about a community and you haven't included the community, do you actually not doing anything? So that's the I think that model is perfect. What do you feel about stopping frisk you know,

that's your question. This is this is where we had almost blows and before before you, before you say can answer to that, I'm going to tell my funny joke because this is a perfect time to say it. When I used to go to the police department, I used to go to n y p D basically every other day because my job was to focus on reducing gun violence, which was the crisis management system that Erica Ford, a t M I and I were building together along with

a bunch of other incredible people. So we would do on that, but we were also working on police brutality incidents, um, and so I had to go. My job was to go down to the NYPD and argue with Phil Banks and everybody in his office every single day. Every day I had to be down there, and so there would be times when they would allow me to come in and park in the structure when downstairs, so the commissioner

knew me. He would see me in there in debate, going back and forth, and then I would literally leave the building and go outside and protest against them because it wasn't working. Nobody seemed to be getting what I was trying to say. So I would saying, Okay, cool, I'm calling everybody, We're about to protest. And I remember vehemently one day that Phil Banks looked at me and said, I'm going to the media and I'm gonna tell everybody

that you've been in this office for three days. You ate the pizza, you drunk, the coffee, you drunk the see and then you go outside and you talk about us like trash. And I'm like, because it's trash up in here. And and stopping fris was the issue of the day that we fought over. And I remember saying that when I was there. The first person I'm gonna lock over, Yeah, used to tell me that. And I did get locked up a few times, but go ahead,

here's what I say. And and I think that this is one of the major major mistakes that was made in policing um. And this is where the eel comes in that not explaining what stop question of frisk actually was and not being able to realize when you have to pipot off of something that's not having the effect that you wanted to. The first thing I'll say is this a lot of people believe stop questioning frisk is a policy that's made up in the basement of one

police plaza. On these police agencies, they do not realize that this is a criminal procedural law. This is a lawing of criminal procedure, guy, which is the first cousin to the penal law. So there's a penal law and there's criminal procedure law. The pedler told you what is the crime, A criminal procedure law told you how you are supposed to carry out your duties, and over the talk for years. I find it amazing that nobody speaks

about that. It's in every state's cronical procedure law. And what it states is that as a police officer, you cannot stop anybody unless these things are current. So when people say eliminate stop question first, what the actually is saying is that if you eliminate stop question frist, then the police office can stop you for no reason at all. This is this is a criminal procedure Lord. This is

not something that was created by any police department. This is part of the Lord, but was responsible for how stop question of first came to be. And that's and and and we we this is gonna the federal court, this is going to this is going to uh millions of hours. This is a low a criminal procedure Lord. And what it does, it is designed to curtail police officers responsibility. It says you can't stop somebody unless these

factors are present. So when you say eliminate, stop questioning and FRIST, it's almost mis No, it doesn't exist, because what you're saying now is that the police officers now don't need a reason and they can stop you. What the problem for us is that the way they're addressing it, the way they're applying it. Absolutely, they were in a plane,

stop question the FRIST they were. We were right, we were taking the criminal procedure law and we were applying it in a manner right that it should not even applied. And I answered the question that was to stop question the FRISH. That was unconstitutional policing. So what do I support? Stop question? The first? Absolutely don't support unconstitutional policing. So I'll give you an example to the origins they can understand. And I will say this and until you know, I

consider myself to be a very very humble person. Um, if you check when the numbers are stop questioning, the fresh plunge dramatically. And this is I'm not paving myself on the back. This is you can prove this. Look at the date that I became the chief of the department. I had every single police command, the court, every single one court and says, if you cannot run your command without making me some necessary stops, I will find somebody

that can't. And from that date they plunged, right, because what happens is this it will started being used as an activity generator. They started being used to say, hey, if you're stopping people, then you're doing good policing. So you had three things that happened. One police officers filling out reports that they were stopping people, one that they were not stopping, so that six hundred and forty number was running up, and and the third of them weren't

even being stopped. A third of them was being stopped just to generate a number. They weren't being stopped to be able to commit crime. Right. And then you had what what what which has bothered me more than anything else. You had the and I don't blame the police officers and the sergeant in Lieu Tennis, they were not the

ones that fall. It was the higher rate who turned a blind eye to in fact that these stocks that were done and in abundance, we were giving out over time for the gonna wake these stops, and we started saying the more people that you stopped, quote unquote, the better police obviously you are. And that is weird to think. Took a very nasty turn. And you know why it continued because the community told us to stop. And when you tell us to stop, how dare you tell us something?

We know what's best because you're never sitting at the table, so we know what's best for you. And if we had looked at it and says, look at these police obviouslys who don't make any arrests, who are who who are not looking to actually stop crying, but they have stops today a month, so they're stopping people just to stop people, then not stop people. And it was not therefore, it was the people like myself and I'm saying that because I'm in that pool, that was the decision makers.

But you don't like the word quotas. You keep telling me that it's not a quota. What do you call it in Well, it's it was It was a management that guys as that the more stops we make, then the more we can control crime. And now, so I want you to this, I want to explain that to be very clear. If you go and you stop a hundred people in the corner. You were going to reduce crime. You're gonna you're gonna get the guns up the street.

You're gonna do this violence right, because we're not. We weren't concerned with one unconstitutional aspect of it right, and two more importantly than that, we weren't concerned with how we were making people feel. Because the bottom line was crime was being reduced, and that became our litmus tests, and it didn't have to become our lipmus tests. Our litmus tests could have been a lot better, a lot different.

We could have still reduced the crime. We could have not fracted these uh, these communities if we had brought them to the table, and we brought you to the table, Tamika, and you came in like this right, and you're doing this, you're doing that, and then we gotta send it. So we got a little tight where you sim me, don't you sooner that and all of a sudden nothing good

comes out of it. But if we had allowed that initial Okay, we're expecting to hear from people that are very upset because they have been having to add vertual relation with the community for many many years now after the first lay in the second layer, now te you start seeing the great work the police partners doing, and we start seeing the value that you can help us,

help you help us. You so far with someone, and now we could have involved into an area in law enforcement where it is truly not the police, police in the community, but the community police in themselves. And I have a lot of faith and hope and and Eric Adams as the next, uh probable next mayor of New York City because working with him, I believe that he gets it. The community has to be a major part, a major part of policing constitutionally and driving crime down

this particular city. And you could, and you can, you could take it from me. It can be done, and it can be done a lot easier than a lot of people are making out to be. Right now, well, the jury is still out on what. Um Eric who I love. You know, Eric is a friend. However, he and I have differenceive opinion on a number of issues, and obviously policing is one of them. UM. But you know, I know Eric, and I know that at his core

he loves black people and he loves our community. And um and you know, and I also know of his intentional work to try to help address some of the issues within the police Department for so many years. So we'll see. But I plan, just like I used to be on your heels, to be on his uh doing whatever is necessary to bring awareness every single day to our issues and to make sure that we hold him accountable.

And we want to thank you for coming on. I want to say that when you became chief departments, things change because you was really the big fish, like you were running the police Department UM and I see the work that happened, and I know the direction that you were taking the NYPD, and I think it was unfortunate that you were not and I know this is not your words as mine, I think it was unfortunate that

you were not UM appointed to be commissioner. I think you would have done an incredible job at commission I still think that you should be drafted for the commissioner job under the new mayor. But I appreciate it when you were within the Community Affairs Department, When you ran that department, I saw and learned so much about what the NYPD could be UM and so I hope that

you know And now I'm being honest with you. While I think that you know, those individuals who are there now do I think that they're trying to do a good job, certainly, but it's not the same aggressive, bold work that I saw happen and when you were in that position. So sometimes we rise in the ranks, and it's good that we make it to other successful places, but sometimes the work that we were doing before we got to this, you know, high profile, high calling um

was actually more effective. So that's just my personal opinion. We thank you a lot. There's a lot of good people the YPD, and I think a lot of them just uh waiting to be awoken. And I'm relatively optimistic, and it's coming from a pessimist. I'm going to the optimistic that we can actually turn uh this thing around. More people forgot to come to the table. And the police department can never be as smart as the police department. The community together and they have to and they have

to understand it. Well. We hope that you get that message across, because you know, the reality of situation is we we understand the necessity of the safety, you know, and what it's going to take to be safe is the community and the police department coming and understanding they both have a role in that safety. So we appreciate you until we're able to abolish the police. But that's

a whole different days conversation. Need him look like we have public safety that is controlled by the community, but I haven't gotten you there yet. We'll keep working on it. Thanks, thank you so much. PP three, Philip Banks, thanks for being with Thanks for having me. Thank you so Listen. I'd like to welcome somebody to the show that another one of our friends. Friends. We always we seem to

have dope friends. Man his brother right here, somebody who I've watched throughout two years, you know, somebody that I've modeled and I you know, I've beenmired from Afar and then became really close with him just watching him do his coming home from prison, you know, coming home from prison and understanding his purpose, you know, and directing from the street life and changing his whole trajectory making movies

and making documentaries. Azing this amazing workman, family man man he was he was doing any of the first person you see the interview would do Ragson. He made it cool to be from the hood and just transition and not make it look Corny. You know what I say. I'm saying, so I just want to say welcome to your brother saying some styles he has. He has a documentary or is it a documentary called Killer to Beef? Yeah, thank you, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate you all. Um,

we're all in this together for sure. Um. The documentary is called Killing Beef. I'm balanced in the black community, and it's on all platforms now. I have a global distribution deal with Senna John. Um, so they distributed worldwide. So now it's on Apple TV, Amazon to be and you know, to be continued, Xbox iTunes. It's all over now. But you can get a documentary on Xbox. Yeah. I didn't know that too until Senda John. You know, they sent me the list so the young people can see

it on Xbox. Wow, that's that's incredible. Samson, you know, I've known you for a long time as well. And it wasn't until one day I was having a conversation with my son and he was like, well, you know, Samson was in prison and he started telling me the story.

I had no idea, no, And I've known you for as you you know, we know, years and years and it's been decades, and I had no idea that you had been in prison, Like I My first in counterl with you was a guy who was like, you know, dope, like doing great working and you know, really deeply into your production and um, you know, working with your wife to who I love and admire and I and I just I had no idea you carry yourself in a way that you're not like walking around with your issues

and the trauma of things that you've been through on your sleeve. So I just want to salute you for that. Thank you. Um, I just learned to appreciate, to appreciate life and appreciate the second chances, and to be able to affect change with storyteller. So you know when I when I ran across that profession, and I really ran across it, you know, and I found out that, you know, that was my calling and it's something that I was

before you. Before you tell us that, before you tell us about your work, tell us your story, what happened to you? And then and and of course you've used your uh your pain if you will, and turned it into purpose. So let's go in that direction. First of all, help people understand your background, right, So, UM, I did seven years in prison altogether, really nine years. Um I did i'ment and twice. So first, you know, I had two to four and then I went in for I

want to half the three. And then I got a FED charge I had in twenty one months for UM eighteen UFC twenty three destruction of move for property to prevent a seizure. It's like a white collar type of crime that they just put on me. Um. You know, it just gave me some extra time to do. So when I came home, you know, I was a product of the streets, so that's the only way I knew

how to give money. And when I came home from prison in two thousand and four, the DVDs were out like smack DVDs, and you know, um those dvs, it was like the DVD circuit. So I said to myself, like, you know, how can I get into that game and make some money without you know, selling any drugs or getting in, you know, putting myself in a position to go back to prisident. So I started filming. I started filming these girls that fight and then underground fight Club.

First of all, I started the fight club for these girls that fighting, Brownsville, and you know, there was always coarse and havoc and getting in trouble fighting. So I said, you know, let's make this constructive. So I started a fight club where they could show up being knuckles. They fight and they win prizes. You know, they win money. I had local businesses or whatever donate or they are

better on the fight. It was totally illegal, but um, once I got with the right people, they said, you know, yo, UM, don't just do uh CDs DVDs with this. This is a story. This is a documentary. So um we started filming it as a documentary. And upon shopping the trailer, I runs into um by way of Q Tip because my man used to manage Q tip before he passed away, and he passed away while I was on my bid. When I came home, Q Tip was trying to, you know, help me get acclimated back in society, as far as

even texting. I didn't know how to text, and all that. Things changed. This was after your first bit. No, this is after the second. This after second, but after this it was a rap. The first bit was in ninety four. I came home in ninety seven, then went back in two thousands, and came back and um, you know two thousand four. So um Q Tip was helping me get acclimated.

And once I got the my DVD done and I had a trailer, I caused him and and I caused his role manager this brother named Light, and Light told me he said, Yo, you need to meet Nelson George. So he introduced me to Nelson George and then come to find out, Nelson Georgie from Brownsville. I didn't really realize who he was at the time that you know that he was this renowned author and you know, there's so many things and helped Chris Frock career, and you know,

he had a big influence behind the scene. So he's watching it, I'm not knowing who he is. And he said, um, yo, this is good. You know, um my man, this is what he said. My man is the president of BT and I think he'd like to see this. He said, who else? A bit? Who else you've shown this too? And I told him, you know, we showed it to um Sheilda Nevers at HBO. We showed to this. Fore we showed to that one, and you know it was

kind of some interest. You know. Nobody said no, and he said, YO, give us a shot like we have um he said, Retrial Hotland is my man, and he has over three hundred million dollars and BT to turn to the network around and this is one of the properties that I think we could you know, do something with. So, you know, you hear stuff all the time us from the streets, you know, you hear stuff I'm not, you know, So I didn't budge on it, and he looked at me it was like, YO, did you hear what I say? Like,

and I'm like, yeah, I heard what you said. You know. Stivious called me, you know, and I just gave him a number. I didn't even take his and he called me. And so my first meeting, he called me to BT to speak with the President of BT, who at that time was Reginald Huntling. You know Reginald Huntling and he's

that deal. So my first meeting was with Reginald Huntling and Nelson, George Selwyn Hanes all the topics that and they wanted, you know, they gave me money to complete the film six digits, you know, to complete the film. And then they said, yo, you you you you come off well on camera. You know, we want to give you a shot to you know, to um possibly be on BT, and I was like, you know, I never wanted to be on TV. And my song, you know, cash from the Streets Clean not too far, you know.

So yeah, I didn't have too many pictures and nothing like that back in those days, you know. So I was like, you know, I don't know about this. But once I found out it was all going to be in a positive light and then I get to share my perspective and not glorify anything that was in my past that you know, I was, I was with it and then it was successful, and then from there, you know, I took to it like a fish to water. Man.

I knew I was still on federal supervisor release and on state parole at the same time, so I had all these restrictions on me. They didn't even want me to leave the bubble without going through the proper channels. So once they knew I was working at BT, they kind of like eased up on me. They pop up on the site sometime when we shoot, and they wouldn't say what they were to everybody, you know, as far as the crew, but the supervisor at that time, they made sure that they talked to him and that I

was actually doing the work and stuff like that. So they kind of fell off me. And then um, I found my this. I just started telling people's stories that was significant to me. Like one of my man's came home from prison from doing like and and I was like, you know, what what is he going to do now? What doors are open form? And you know, they was giving me free rain. So I was like, look, I want to do a story on my man. He just came home from doing and it was you know, giving

me that room to do that. And I just started seeing the power and telling people's stories and being able to tell it the right way. Um, even with you to me, I got you in early time footage a few times, you know, and and and even um uh sister Evercaford, I got hut before she even had her first office. I got some footage that I do you have all school footage. But when she was you know, in her mother basement, man conducting business from her from

you know, God bless her mother passed. But um, when she was conducting business from the basement, to be able to capture that and doctor meant that to be able to look down to see the progress that people made and then some of it might have yeah yeah, yeah, you know, me doing what I've done and exposing what they're doing may have even elevated them in some way that they might have been seen on this show or that show that I helped produce. Not a negative attached

to it. So what what is killing the beef about? Killing beef is about? Um, it's a double on time. So we know beef. Killing beef can be somebody taking somebody head off, which is killing beef. And it could be you know, a resolution resolved in the beef, which is you kill that beef, squash it deady right, So I used that, um, because that's what I did in

that documentary. I killed the beef for one of the guys that shot me up in eight eight I got shot five times by two two cats, and um, when one of the cats he had came home from prison. When he came home. Instead of us continue you in the beast, you know, we wind up getting together and talking to these youth and shaming our story and um youth that was in detention centers, alternatives and conservation programs in schools, and the way we did it, it was

done in such a way that was so unpactful. Um, I said, yeah, I gotta start recording this. I gotta start recording these sessions and make something out of it because people are not gonna believe that this type of stuff don't usually happen. So we put the doct together and it's been like very successful. People that watch it, you know, it's been positive response, no negative response whatsoever. I mean not one negative comments saying any anything bad

about it. So this person shot you and then you guys got together, how did you find him? And what was that? Like? This is like common what happens in the hood, right, Um, this is in the eighties, man. I used to you know, I used to rob drug dealing. I like to stick up drug builders and you know I used to, Um, I used to be one of those active shooters in the neighborhood. So what happened is

I robbed somebody for their stuff. Um. You know I had robbed the stool, stuck him up, tied him up and stuff, and took everything that was in a safe and his jury. So I thought it was his, but come to find out it belonged to this other guy. He made me think it was his, and like he's bowling like that. So I got him, but it belonged to another guy. That guy that it belonged to grew up and my and my family's building, so to the point that one of his nephews is named after my uncle.

So back in the streets, I guess, you know, in those days, it doesn't matter. So when he rolled up on me about the situation and with his guns out, it was, I mean, with his gun out. It was on the fourth of July and he rowed up on me. You know, I tried to convince him to go around the corner because there's too many kids outside. The fourth of July was a cookout, so there's a lot of action and stuff going on. So I was like, you know, let's go around the corner and toil and one thing

left to another. I want to give too much away because I even have this in the film, but but what happened is um the guy that I also robbed was with him that I didn't see. So now I had two guns pointed at me, and you know, the end result was I wanted up getting shot up. So the guy that came behind me, I knew who he was, but the people in the area didn't know who he was, and and and you know my family members didn't know, so he he didn't get in any trouble for it. Smoke. Uh,

that's the guy who shot me up. He I mean one of the guys, the one that lived in my grandmother's building. Everybody around the neighborhood knew who he was, so that was that was dumb, you know on his part to let that the bullets fly around, the kids, kids jumping, you know, people was piste off my family norm They thought I wasn't gonna make it, so you know, they testified on a lot of the people in the

neighborhood testified on, so I didn't. And you know, he thought that he would be able to beat the trial because I wasn't coming to court. But they used the testimony of other witnesses and then my hospital report, and you know, he still got convicted. So when he came home. Uh, by the time he came home, I was at b T and I'm doing I'm doing great stuff. Now My life changed totally around. And then I got the message. My aunt had um text me and said, you know,

this guy's out of jail. So then I started runnying a little bit because I said, man, I don't want to get pulled back in, you know, to this, to this type of life. So I asked my aunt do she know where he's staying at? And that was just for me to know in case something happened to you know, to if if he was gonna come looking for me, then I would be pulled into the game right all over again while I'm doing this great work already at b T that that was that thin line between the

streets and where I was at now being legal. So um, I had his money and his boys reached out to me because he didn't want to see nothing happen to me, and he didn't want to see nothing happen to him. So he reached out to me and said, Yo, would you talk to do you? Would you mind sitting down and talking to him? And I said, yeah, I talked to him, you know, gave him my numbers to tell him to call me. So when he called me, you know, we spoke for a couple of hours on the phone.

At first conversation. We spoke for a couple of hours about the incident, about what was wrong about the incident, um about how the young ones are coming up now, and and and and what he was doing in prison as far as he was facilitating talking to the young to try to that you know, the young people come to prison and try to deter them from going back to that way of life from what I was doing

on the outside. So it's a perfect match for me to invite him because I was already speaking to you that detention centers and stuff, just being on BT and I'm knowing where I came from. They was listening to me, they was relating to me. So I said, I might as well bring him on with me to tell our story. And at the same time, we could become valuable to each other, so we don't have to worry about killing

each other. If I'm valuable to you and I'm bringing you around and you know, I'm helping you, and our main focus is to help these young people be on the right track, and we on that same page, then we could do this together. So that's that's what we want to focus on. That's that's what our main focus is.

You know, this is like our last episode, and we I want to have a we need to do a whole hour you just me and you just having this conversation So what I want to to tell us right this is about gun violence and all of the you know, the violence is going on our community. I want you to give us like a final word that you would say to these young kids this out here shooting, Like,

what what do you tell them? You know, being a victim also being a shooter, just understanding both dynamics of what's going on, just seeing what's going on these streets right now? What would you say to them? Like you, if you had to say what you say right now, right now, I would tell that you that are pulling those triggers to know your history, man, to understand why you act in the way that you do, because the more you understand, the less likely you are to put

up that trigger. And to know that this isn't because your animals, or that you will raise a certain way, and or that you have bad Pammington. Although some of that may play a part, but the main thing is that it's the social economic conditions that we're in that causes us to happen. And before black people started occupying these spaces, they will immigrant white people that would occupying these spaces, and they had the same exact problem that

we have today. They had a violence, white on white violence, which wasn't stated white on white violence, but they had the same thing going on. And what happened the government came in, They gave them the gr loans, they helped subsidize they moved from the urban areas into the suburbs, and then had them um get homes, affordable homes which later increased in value. And that's what ceased that white on white violence. A lot of people don't know that

for that's what we're fighting for. Samson. We appreciate you so much for coming on and we want to support you. Tell everybody again the name of your film and also where they can find it. Thank you. Um. The documentary is Killing Beef Gun Violence in the Black Community. You can see it on two B TV. You can see it on Amazon, you can see it on Apple TV, Xbox fan Dango. UM. Yeah, absolutely, thank you. We love you. Got work to do, man, we got work to do.

I'm hit you later. Thank you. That's good stuff. I mean, you know, there's much more that we could talk to Chief Banks about. And if I was a viewer, I would sit back and be like, Okay, that was great that we learned some things about his ideas on policy and strategy. We also learned, you know where he says, this is a big failure. What's happening always has But you know what I didn't get because he never actually told us the process stop asking fris right, stop questioning,

questioning first. He didn't really he would. He's one of those guys. Okay, what is like, what is the process of it? Like? I don't think we did we act know, you asked him what did he think about stop questioning for he said, there's a process and that's what it's not being implemented right right now. Well, because it should

be happening everywhere to anybody. That's the problem. The issue is that if you're gonna use stop questionings and frisk pop properly, it should mean that and I really mean this, and in the craziest right way. If we know that young men are not getting guns from any manufactorer that they are making, or you know, they don't have direct connections to be able to pull these guns into the community,

it means they are coming from somewhere. And we know that oftentimes these weapons start out being traffic from places and they could in fact be in the homes, the basement the car trunks of people who don't look like us, people who are more affluent, people who have, you know, more access and relationships, so they got to be stopping. That means that you actually got to do work right, right.

You gotta do investigations right. So the lazy cop says itself, you know what, I'm not gonna I know this neighborhood right here, it should be some guns on in here. So I'm just gonna pull over everybody in this neighborhood

because I know this is what crime happens. It's gonna pull over everybody's neighborhood and eventually I'll get probably five percent of them to have some guns and the other ninety five that who's the right side violated of not just suspicion because you look a certain way right, they should have to. It's just like when you get pulled over, right, you got a tail light is broke, you didn't make

a right turn. You can't you're not spy to just pull somebody legally, you can just not pull somebody over because you you looked at them and didn't like the way they looked. Right. So those same steps should be implemented in the start question there has to be something that you've done wrong. But just walking down the block and you decide you want to search me because I look I look suspicious to you. It's not that's not anything that is a definite violation. But that argument that

some would me right, is that it is profiling. I agree with you, and that some of their work is in fact profiling that if I know it's brown skin, slim frame, uh, you know, baseball cat um outside on this block around this time, maybe red jacket, we go out and we stop, question and frisk all the individuals who looked like that who fit that description. The problem is that description description of what I just said. That's because that reason why he's he's the description of it.

Because the people from the building, the people from the community have reported no but let me let me just let me finish my point. The people from the community have reported that that's what the guy was wearing, or that's how he looked, or this is how Ray Ray usually show you know what he he has a red jacket or it's got a stripe or a thing. And then or the gang that he's a part of, they wear some type of red around their arms. They wear

this or that, and that becomes a part of the profiling. Right. The problem is that my father, where's the same ship? Right, my brother wears the same ship, you wear the same ship a college because you know why, it comes from cultural things that we see on TV every day, the music we listen to, the artists. So you can't use that as a profiling mechanism because everybody's got tray Var Martin's hood over their heads, everybody in a little bit

of rain. And so what I'm saying is, if stop question and Chris is gonna work properly, it has to be used in communities that may actually have the drugs bringing them into our communities. Right, the bags is getting the first of all, we know the ship is getting dropped off to us, and it's coming from Okay, maybe there's a different investigation that's the the Drug Force and the federal government that might be working on when it's

coming off the ships. Because remember, somehow or another, they just stopped talking about Chase Bank and how they found tanks in the water. Um with those those big carts and what are those things, those those big old what are those things called those big cartons, the cartons with a bunch of drugs in it that was in the paper. I don't know what happened. The story just kind of went away, but there were drugs, lots and lots, like millions of dollars worth of drugs, right, So that we

don't know what happened with that. But maybe there's a different force that deals with that. Maybe there's a different force that deals with the big the big, big guy who has the relationship between whatever country and America, who has the the the the you know, the drugs and all of that stuff. But when you start coming to who's picking it up from him or them and bringing it to meet the black guy or the brown guy, that's where where? What why up them with them getting

arrested because they live right here. They might live in Queens in a nice little house, they might live in west Chester somewhere. But while we don't go stop, stop questioning frisk in those neighborhoods to try to find out if they're the ones that's got the real dope. I mean they do the work, they're not. No, it's not about not wanting to do the work. It's that those communities do not want chaos, conflict. They don't want to bother those people. Those people are considered to be they're

they're not. It's easier they don't want to do work right. It's easier to just criminalize the stream hustler that has a few thousand dollars than to have to walk into the problem of dealing with the person who has the mill boss. They don't want to get the balls and or the bosses guy. And that for me, well, and and that's another side of it. So no nobody wants to talk about there, not even chief things. I mean, but that's the thing. In a longer conversation you could

get to that. And that's why we did the sick episodes on gun violence the way that we have, and we need to do more because we want to break down some of the things that he was saying. Um, you know, in twenty minutes, you don't get an opportunity to really get into some things. One of the things I wanted to ask him about, and I didn't think about it until the interview was over, is the fact that while he was chief of department, Er Gander was killed,

you know, and what is his perspective on that. There was some people who said it was a direct order from his office for people to go clean up the issue that was happening there, which was folks complaining about people selling cigarettes or CDs or whatever the hell was being supposedly allegedly sold in their well. Well, I guess there are a lot of questions, but I definitely like the Sampson's interview is you know, and I want to

watch the Killing Beef. I want to definitely watch that because that's something that's when you sit down with somebody who shot you and then you guys come together and then start educating these young kids, Like that's that's powerful. Just understand it. The mindset that you have to have to just forgive somebody who shout you and sit down with that person. You know, a lot of these kids don't understand that. That's why beef continues to just continue

to spread through our community. So I think that's something real impactful and powerful and needed at this time, and it's part of my boycott Black Murder campaign that we started.

So I definitely appreciate his interview. Is that. One thing I do know is that Sampson, I agree with Chief Banks about this one thing that you got to bring the two entities together because I think when you have somebody like a chief banks and someone like Samson sitting down working together every single day, where Samson is getting a paycheck like a salary to sit down, show up

and talk about the mindset that goes on. Because first of all, Samson robbed somebody, so you can't you can't skip past that he caused what became the response, And once again, I tell you it's about probably you know, poverty is violence in our communities. People robbed because they wouldn't have money things that come. You know, they lack resources, they lack finances, so that caused somebody to get shot.

You know. So once again, man dope episode. Both of them have different perspectives that you know, I appreciate it, and you know, I hope our viewers appreciate and understand as we continue to just try to give content that is relevant and needed, you know. So, and that brings me to a little more off topic. Um to my I don't get it. And it's kind of kind of controversial, you know, talking about there's always controversial, you know, but

we've been talking about this is the baby situation. You know, baby d a baby and my mom says it little or it's done. It's done, and there's so so many different perspects that I've seen about what's needed. I've been thinking, right, and I've been thinking about his statements, you know, me and you had discussions about it, about his statements and how he went about it, and just just overall and just hip hop. You know what hip hop has foulded on, you know, the whole expression of hip hop and how

it plays into this situation. And you know, of course, we don't want anybody to be harmed or disrespected or feel violated, you know, but when we look at what the core of hip hop is, the core of hip hop is about different expressions, and some of them are very vulgar, some of them are very violent. Some of the hip hop lyrics lead two actual murder, you know, some of them about actual murder, some of them about

actual crimes. You know, some of them misogynistic at its court, Like you know, the whole culture of it, it's so entangled in a lot of things that are violent and negative, and there's no responsibility from any of these entities and businesses that decided that they don't want to support you know, when you when you read the statements that they may you know, you know, we want to be on a humanitarian you know, these are things and I don't get

how entities who supported the annihilation, you know, who have cultivated, who actually incentivize, you know, negativity and violence and all those things within our communities, you know, now take a moral stand and decide that this right here is something that we can't support, which you can support that m hm. I mean I think it's a contradiction. It's it's always hit critical. But I still as you've said and not and and we've we've had this conversation several times on

camera off camera. It's been a debate among all of us and a lot of people within the industry, people who come from different perspectives. I think it speaks to yes, there's always a need to challenge industry because industry can absolutely be exploitative, if you will right. I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but you get my point, um. But I think it's more so of us challenging ourselves. We need to ask ourselves as a people, why is it that we are so undervalue?

And what can we now do to ensure that? Because I think there are some guys out here who didn't even want to rap about negativity, but they found out that it was the only way that they were going to be able to get a record deal. Because us, they're not pushing common and my son and others like you in the ways in which they could and should, right, So I think we should find a way to ensure that the standard is changed, and that the same way

another community. Whether you agree or not, there are people who say, well, I don't think the baby said anything that's that bad. I personally feel what he said was unnecessary, and I think he was insensitive at at best, unnecessary and insensitive. But I think it wasn't so much what he said. It was what he did afterwards that created even more of a colossal problem, right, And I think he probably at this point has learned, But I'm not

so concerned. I don't want to spend my time. Actually, I think what he's learned is that you you don't certain things you don't have, you can't have your own opinion publicly. I don't think. I don't think, and that's just being honest. I don't think he didn't agree with what he said. I don't think what he was the statement he wrote came from a place of you know what, maybe right. I don't think that at all. I think he was forced into realizing that you're not as big

as you think you are. Right, you you've got twenty million followers, you make all this money, but you can't even if you think that, you can't say that. And I think that's what we want from That's what I know I want from police. I wanted from elected officials. I know that changing people's racist views or harmful views or whatever about our communities is probably never gonna happen,

and I don't have time for that. But what I do want is for our communities to have standards that's set and ways in which we go about letting it be known that if you cross this line, we will take everything that you have. That's why ending qualified and unity is important to me, because that says now I can hold you personally be responsible. So it's not that my tax dollars are constantly going to be recycled into a system and a pot that pays people that get abused.

I want you to have to pay right. And I think that that's that's what you know. To your point, we've learned that whether or not you agree with his statement or feel it was this hard or that hard or whatever. You you can stand wherever you want to stand. But the one thing you know is that certain communities demand that you respect their issues. And you're gonna learn today. And I want black people to have the same exact power.

And that's why. And it doesn't mean that we could say well because I think you know, I love versus between the Locks and Dip set, but I know I heard a lot of misogyny and a lot of violence. And I know that even in the show and the and and what I saw going on when you were standing right there, and y'all enjoyed it, because this is

an error that we come from. But I saw the incidents brewing on the stage that had to be mitigated by people because the type of music that they were listening to, it brings about a certain level of frustration and you know all of that energy heighten energy is a better word rather than just even saying frustration. The frustration was the one that wasn't winning. But it's the sport,

you understand, I'm saying. It's just like when you when you put when you put Lebron James against Um they're gonna's gonna be physics, gonna be elbows, and at the end of the game, you hug like they did. And that's what hip hop is has always been. I think what I think what we should be doing, And this is just like a lesson, right. I think there is a direct anger bye by heterosexual black men. Right, there's an anger, and there's a belief that another lifestyle is

being amplified more than the heterosexual BA man. That's that's just a belief, right, And I think what we need to start doing, as heterosexual black man, who may you that not talk about negative about somebody else, right, the same way somebody is amplifying the same way little Nuns is able to go up there and and advocate for his lifestyle and how he believes go up then advocate for yours. You don't have to say negative things about

little Nasa, right, You don't have to. You don't have to say oh this and that about No, don't do that make your lifestyle prevalent to you. It promoted the same way that everybody else promotion behind people that people the minute moved the way you want to. You don't have to talk about somebody that's not doing all. I mean, I love seeing all of y'all show up for nineteen Keys. You know, I was out of town. I couldn't be there,

but I love seeing y'all show up. This is a man's man, and I saw other men's men standing next to him. You Jim Jones and others who were there. What's my brother's name, the the artist who's in the Nation of Islam, Donnie, that's my man. Like I saw y'all there supporting him and being there to make sure that he knew that. You know, he is a king, is respected in the community, and that and and and and all of y'all that posted about it gave him more people to have access to him, and certainly I

want to support him. Same thing with Jay Morrison. You know he's out here during the corner classes. We want to support that and uplifted. I don't think that we need to because, by the way, the problem is that we're not I don't believe that we're going to win a battle of oppression Olympics trying to decide whose oppression

is worse or more or whatever. You know, there was a whole controversy that happened around me saying that sexism is worse than racism in the context of an interview where if you watch the interview, people who actually watched the full interview, they were like, Okay, I see what you were saying. We were talking about Kamala Harris and whether or not she can become president in four years,

and I said, I don't know. It's gonna be based upon her work, is gonna be based upon changes that are made, and whether or not we can go out and campaign for her because they actually did something for our communities. I said, but I can tell you right now, she black, which is one problem, but the fact that

she's a woman sexism can be worse than racism. In other words, to say you black, and now you add on top of that the fact that you were a woman, you're really in trouble because, as we know, America will take a black man over a highly qualified woman who was running against a lunatic. She was qualified. I didn't like her, but I'm just saying, you know, she was more qualified than Donald Trump, and they all elect a

black man any man. So that was the point. It wasn't to diminish our struggle as black people in this country. Of course, we know that racism is is you know, um racism has been every single day. It is the thing, and white supremacy is the thing that's killing our people, killing our communities. We know that what I'm saying at there is like double whammy's. You know, you could be a man or a woman, but you could also be a black woman. I mean, we just gotta do better,

you know, our communities. That's another thing, you know, we gotta we have to figure out how to organize and if things we don't like, things we do like, advocate for them and advocate against you know, to make sure that you're respected and you get you know that our community is taken seriously. We have to we have to treat ourselves the way that we want to be treated. We have to show people that we deserve to be treated in a certain way. So, you know, I hope

this is a lesson for artists. You know, understand that this is their industry. You know, this is it's not your build. Your build your own and be able to do that. Not saying that it gives credence to you disrespecting or violating, but not saying that. I'm just trying to say, if you if you want to have a platform to what you get to say and do whatever you want, then you got to build your own So yeah, and that's and that's that on that man hopefully we

learned a lot, you know it this dope episode. UM informative, informative, informative. Shout out to the locks, you know what I'm saying, Dip said, shout up to Dip said, but Jada kisses down. He moved up from five to three top three Dead are alive for me right now. So you know, he didn't a great job go to go to the energy was dope. You know, we didn't talk about on the stage. He was an MC. I told people he was a master of ceremony. He completely controlled every aspect of that

stage last night. Man and and I was talking to him for days about it, and before that he was just like, I'm not saying nothing, mice, I'm not talking like you know. They was amplifying it up. And he never came on social media and said one word. And I remember me and Mano was in the audience and we're sitting there and they called everybody in the stage, so we sitting were standing right next to the stage. So Mano looks at me and was like, you like,

Mike's looking kids, He's saying the world he's folks. Everybody was running around. He just sitting up there, standing there. He said, Yo, he's focused. I said, yeah, man, he's serious. So you know, shout out to him. Dope, dope, dope. Versus. I want to see fifty Verse game. That's the verses I want to see. I want to see Verse game. I want to see Nicky versus Kim like it's it's I want that. Nick versus Kim doesn't work at all. It just doesn't because they're in two different age groups.

And then and the whole point of versus is supposed to be two people that were in the same time frame that had music running at the same That's not really true because the Locks Locks Dip set came years after the Lot. They didn't have music that was basically going at the same time. Like the artists individually. Know what I'm trying to tell you. The Locks just trance. They they've been around way longer than everybody. It's still nik Nikki and Kim don't go together. It's just the

wrong time frame. I don't know who Kim goes with. And By the way, there's some people that can't be verse versus. They just can't can't do it. They just can't. I don't know who and Kim's time. Really, Kim would be Foxy Brown, it would have to be. And that wouldn't be good because I don't think I mean, I love I think Foxy has some good music. But she don't got enough music. She got up against Kim. She

got great. Maybe she does. You forget I got people's music by the like, oh I forgot that, but Kim, Kim got some she does. Shout out to Kim. I love Kim. That's my sister. But um yeah, So another great episode. We appreciate y'all. Thank you for the love making us the number one in the world. Just keep on number on the best best podcast in the world. And right, let's let us know what you feel. If you've got any topics ideas, tell us how great we are, tell me how awesome I am. How much you like

my hat? You can go get it. It's online. You know what I'm saying. Support us. I'm not gonna always be right to me because not gonna always be wrong, but we will both I guarantee you both always always be authentic peace. That's how we owed it. That's how we owe it. That's how we that's that's how we owed