Right Complexion for the Protection

the team down in Brunswick, Georgia. We went down and hugged up and loved up on Wanda Cooper Ahmad Arby's mother and also spent some time with our legal friends Lee married Benjamin Crump and the whole team there, um,

you know, and really to support the family. Also got to see our sister Tesla and figure oh um, you know until freedom doing what we do and uh, that was one part of our journey, um, and we have continued over the last I guess you know, several days, last several weeks, I think I was talking to our guests that are coming up today's special guests about how many flights we as until Freedom have been on in the last week, and we were somewhere at like twelve

flights the last few weeks. Excuse me, um, twelve flights with connections and whatever else. It's it's definitely mentally, physically

and emotionally taxing. Yeah, it really is. Man. Just you know, for me, this written house Um verdict, even though it was the shock and it's still it's still demoralized, and it just takes a lot of win out of yourselves when we can look at, you know, the same situations go over and over and people justified since its murder and things of that nature, especially when it comes to either us or situations that regard us. You know, it

just gives me. When I was watching and then today i'm you know, we're still waiting on the verdict for the mare Albury trial, and then they did please don't say that the trial for the murderers of ama Arebury, and very requested to see that video again and every time, I don't care how many times I see it, it's still just it just terrorizes me. It just destroys my whole soul. And then it gets back to the situation

with you know, treyvon Martin. It's the same exactly when you really think about it's the same exact thing that you know. These people think they have the privilege, you know, to walk up through these guns and demand that you stand somewhere and demand that you do what they tell you. And when you fight for your life, you have to even you have to fight to be able to fight

for your life, you have to give. You have to give reasoning to why people can't just containe and and and shoot you without without you doing anything wrong man, as a black man in America. So you know that was alone was a lot. And then like you said, the traveling the way and tell my body and but it is what it is, man, This is the life that shows us. This is what you know, God put us here to do. Man. So as much as it gets us weary, man, that's what we gotta do. So

that's what we have to do. It's what we've called to do. And um I am glad to be doing it with two people that are going to join us today. I posted yesterday you and and and my brother Angelo Pintil who's coming up. Y'all gotten on my nerves so bad with all our conversations, because you know, we talked deep, um, and I was thinking about how much y'all annoyed me, and then yet how I couldn't do what I do

without you all. Um. You know how these these these road trips and um, the time that we're out away from our families, away from the comfort of our homes, UM, the stress of dealing with the naysayers, and also all of the traumatized people in our communities that need us, um or or that don't think they need us, and just all that we have to deal with. I don't know how I could sustain myself and keep doing this work without having the type of crew and family that

I have. And so having our brother and sister, Attorney Angelo Pinto, and also lend us our sure of my partner and everything UH to be on with us today for this special Today, we're gonna just talk straight through about some of these these these cases. We've been talking so much about it in the car while we were down at the the the thankful thankfully it was not the execution of Julius Jones, but it could have been. And we were on the road driving back and forth

from taking flights Tulsa Oklahoma. That was just last week. You would think that this these things are happening like farms spread apart, but in fact they're happening right behind

one another. And that was just again last week that we were on the road, and the conversations that we have are so deep, we said we got to bring them to the street, politicians, family and really have the transparent moment of talking about where we are and what we think as leaders, as organizers, um as we we navigate through these these cold waters, because it's certainly there,

certainly are are cold. But before we bring them on, I was gonna give you my thought of the day today because I was really thinking, Bill, when I get a change throughout these flights, I sit and I scrolled through Instagram, and I'm trying to figure out why people are running in stories, stealing these folks stuff, steal in the Nordstrom's. I think I just see here in New York City last night they ran into I believe it may have been like the Louis Vuitton sto or something

like that. So I guess the dash and grab is what they call it. Yeah, that's that's one of the terms of it. In the hood, Dash and grab yeah, but grabbing dash yeah, that would that would that would be the correct um order of it. They're grabbing in though, they're grabbing the dashing all over the country, robbing the north drums and even market stories. But just the thought I had, first of all, I think that's just ridiculous,

absolutely ridiculous. And you know there'll be some say, yeah, but in a capitalist society, people gonna take their reparations and da dada. You know, people ain't got no jobs and whatever. That's you know, I still think it's ridiculous. And last night the situation got serious because the video that I saw the police, and I believe again it was in New York. The police ran up to people who were trying to get away in a car in traffic, so the car wasn't moving, you idiot, and the police

ran up and bust the windows out. The person got dragged out. There was three police officers with batons banging the windows, glass everywhere, Like the situation is dangerous. But what I what really confuses me is the group that I laughed think was in North Carolina. It was like a hundred of them. Why do people do crimes together and think that no one is going to tell who was involved with the incident. It doesn't make sense to me, Yeah,

because it doesn't make sense at all. It's a very primitive and and and and future out um feeble minded of act. Because if you from you know, anything about crime, there's always somebody telling. The more people that you do a crime with, the more opportunities and the more people are gonna tell on you. So I think desperation, I think ignorance to certain things. I think some people just want to be involved. There's a lot of those people

probably like, oh that's what they do it. Let me just get in the giftshop, you know, and it's it's it becomes this this mob mentality, and it's it's really not smart at all, what you know, Like you said, some people are going to say in the capital society, this is what people are forced to do. Within the holidays. People have been you know, have been taught to glorify these presidents and gifts and things that needed to have, you know, that they feel like they need to have,

and it's just it's really messed up. Really Well, let's bring our guests on because I want to hear from Attorney Angelo Pento, how many years can you get when you are grabbing and dashing? Because I believe it's got to be some real time associated with it. And maybe these young people particularly that are doing this and these mobs, I think that it's something fun or like you said, just something to get involved with. But I don't think that this is smart because I think it's gonna put

some time on their lives and put them in a situation. So, Attorney, Angelo Pentel, my brother, our brother, our friends and lindas our so are you with us? Yeah, we're here. How y'all doing today? Not bad? Feeling good? Feeling great? Indeed, Yeah, that's the rest. Good for y'all, man, because I'm getting some as soon as they get over this thing. Got to sleep. So what So I don't know if you were listening to us, um, Angelo, I will, resident Attorney.

We're just trying to figure out what the grabbing dash, what kind of charges are associated with that good old grabbing dash. I mean, I think that in that scenario, it's really gonna be contingent on what they get charged with, and they'll probably depend and then it depends on right the cost of the items they're stealing. Um, but it will probably be grand larceny because they're in high end retail stores. Um, they can likely get a conspiracy charge

because they're acting in concert with so many folks. But it appears also that because this is kind of a newer phenomenon, or at least one that is getting a lot of attention in this moment because it's happening around the country, that they may try to throw another charge at them simply to kind of send a message that

we're not going to tolerate this. So, you know, it really varies, and I haven't really seen how states are handling these scenarios because oftentimes, also when folks are stealing at the mall, you're usually not thinking you're gonna get a very serious charge. But I think the circumstances are little different. They're high end stores. They're actually kind of pretty big grabs when you think about how many people are acting in concert together, um, and it's something that's

been happening a lot more frequently. So you know, I think we're gonna have to wait and see a little bit. But I think as a start, you're probably gonna see some grand larceny charges. You're probably gonna see some conspiracy charges with folks acting in concert. Um. And I think in that case that you mentioned earlier that happened in New York where now you're having this very serious interaction

with law enforcement, you might see resisting arrest charges. So they're probably gonna do everything they can to throw everything they can at them and trump up charges so that something sticks, so they send a message that just this can't happen, it can't be tolerated. So it will be interesting to see how it plays out in straits across the country. Mm hmm. Yeah. I think I think that, Um,

they're gonna want to send a message. You know, they're gonna want to make some people examples, so the which you would normally probably get for the same thing and probably be hyped up a lot more. Yeah, I think

so too. But you know, just like I said, I worry about it because feels like yet another thing that will put you know, criminal records on black folks, particularly black men, in our communities, and even before they really get started in life, um, which we're already trying to fight against, so they can get some Gucci Pucci and Pucci Like, I just don't, you know, I don't, I don't and I guess you know, how can we we we UM all of us are I guess guilty if

you will, I don't know if you call it guilty, I wouldn't say guilty. But all of us participate in UM, you know, wearing nice things and having labels. So perhaps that is what some will use as an excuse for this behavior. But I think that we all, you know, you gotta go through the route of working hard and doing what you have to do to be able to get it. And you know, it's crazy that some people don't think that that's the that that is you know,

the answer. And you know, we were just talking a little bit mind yesterday about this idea that people want to have do and be and don't want to work to get to whatever it is that they're trying to

get in society. And so you know, I know that there are folks who probably want us to say well and to you know, make excuses for the behavior, but it really feels like this is going to turn out as something else where our communities will be criminalized and where uh that conspiracy charges so dangerous is that there'll be young people who will just have been there, just went downtown. Maybe you got on the train that day

with them. You didn't necessarily go in the store, but guess what the charges that will apply across the board. That's how it works, right, if you're acting in concert with folks. Yeah, most certainly. I mean it's not clear that that's how they'll are them, but it seems like they're gonna have to do something that they traditionally don't do, and that you know, in these scenarios, folks are acting in concerts, so it would makes sense that that's something

that they also throw at them. Well, listen, speaking of acting in concerts, let's talk about these cases in these situations. You know, here we are today sitting um waiting for the verdict to come in from a jury that is deliberating in the Ahmad Arebrey um the matter of the murder of Ahmad Aubrey. And you know there are three individuals who they acted in concert. Let me get my

legal stuff. That's what they did, right, I would say. So, I mean, I think they're making a case, as we saw when we were at the trial, was that two days ago or yesterday, that they're going to try to make the case that in fact, that's not what took place. And that these individuals were all acting separately, um and their action should not be kind of connected together. So I think they're saying that that, in fact did not happen.

And I think what you see happening on the other end is them saying that, in fact, this was these folks acting in concert, you know, really to meet or to see the demise of brother Arbury. Mm hmm. It definitely they definitely acted in concert. Man, They were in unison. The people drove their trucks, you know, and they flushed him out, and they cornered him, you know, and falsely imprisoned him, as you know they have been charged with. And it's just for me, you know, I just don't.

I just America is just a very weird place to me, man, When when you can have people justify things of that nature, it's just very weird. Mm hmm. I mean I was gonna ask Linda, you know what, what what is going through your mind? Is just sitting here waiting on this verdict today, do you feel hope for you kind of feel like because yesterday you were like, I don't know, so today, just because of the videos that have been requested by the jury, do you feel more hopeful. I

don't know the system. I feel like we've learned not to put too much hope in the system. Originally, I felt like it was pretty clear to me and to anyone with the conscious that really, anyone with eyes, um and ears that was listening to the evidence, that the the killers of a mod areby are guilty. But then I watched how the defense try to take the jurors off course and try to confuse them, and I think she Um might have done some damage in that regard.

So I don't know. I'm feeling like, if it was clear that they were guilty, they were already deliberating for hours, um, and so I'm hoping that um, you know, got intervenes into justice to serve it. I feel I'm not sure how I feel. I'm confused. I'm not sure if I feel hopeful or I'm not sure if I feel like they're gonna come back with some thing that's um not going to be acceptable. What would be the justification? Though,

Angelo like, I don't get it. I don't think who how do people make the case of self defense when Day started the situation? Yeah, I mean, I think you know the sad part about this and I don't think you can really divorce these two things from this conversation is that, of course there's the law, and people always say and I think, you know, I heard it when we were listening to closing statements the other day, UM, one of the defense attorneys mentioned that he's really just

trying to apply the law to the circumstances. And for me, I think that's never what happens, right. There's always bias, there's always a variety of factors at play. When the jury is hearing a trial, or when anyone is really listening to a trial, it's hard to truly divorce your

internal biases from that proceeding. And I think one of the most clear are in present internal bias that exists in America is around race, um, and it's around racism, and it's around people who they consider criminals, who are traditionally black and brown folks. So I think what you see happening in this case the other pieza to that, and I think you see what you have in this case is the flip side where white folks are given

the extreme beyond the benefit of the doubt. Um, they get to get all jail free card, they get judicial kind of coddling, They get a number, they get money for their case to fight a case where they were wrong that everyone witnessed and got to see on tape. So I think what you're seeing also is the way in which the judicial system works with white folks and the way in which the judicial system works with black folks. And I think that's a big piece of what's playing

out in this case. So things that you would traditionally look at and say, hold on, wait, this person is guilty. This is should be an open and shed case now because a person is white. Now, because of the ways in which the attorneys work on the case, there's a lot more latitude that's saying, well, in fact, maybe that's not what happen. And they're throwing in all these potential factors and circumstances that would make someone potentially consider that

a murderer is not in factor murder. And I think that's what you're seeing play out, and in this case, I think that's what you saw a play out in the written house case. But it's not what you ever see play out when black folks find themselves in similar circumstances and it's similar. I mean, the reason why I always tell people, you know, we can't put our hopes

up too high. Is that you know, Trayvon Martin was unarmed, Um, he was walking around the neighborhood that he had every right to walk around in and just for being black, um, and and and deemed suspicious by a vigilante, he was murdered.

And George Zimmerman, who murdered Trayvon Martin, got off. And so I think it's important that with all that's happening around us, Written House with the marred are very um case of the murderers, UM, the McDaniels, and all the McMichael's, excuse me, and just everything else, Tenasia Chapelle and the

many cases Savior Hill. There's so many ongoing cases that still have not gotten justice that it's important for us form a mental health perspective to not set our hopes up to high because this country disappoints us over and

over and over again. And some an attorney, a conservative attorney, was um chatting with me on Facebook and he said to me, he said, listen, He said, you may be mad about the Written House case, but he goes to the bottom line, if you want to be mad, you gotta be mad at the law is not the not the verdict that came out. So it also is that we have, as Angels said, we just got faulty laws and the laws that are not applied across the board equally um and not everybody could use the same defenses.

So so written House can say self defense and you know my understanding of self defenses that you know, if I'm if if there's a situation happening in my neighborhood and you come outside, Karen again in front of my house, and then you shoot people in front of my house. But I didn't ask you to defend my house. I didn't ask you to fend my property. I don't know how you could clean that you're protecting a property in

the place that you're not from. And then what's interesting also about the Written House case was, and I don't know how they argued this, but the bottom line is, you're a minor. You shouldn't even be carrying a gun anyhow. Forget about the fact about how you got the gun. No one was held accountable for that part. But you're a minor. You shouldn't even be carrying a semi automatic rifle. And I don't know how that went under the radar.

But again, faulty laws, bias in the courtroom. UM. And you know, as as a lot of our people say, you know they're guilty before they get to the courtroom, and that's if they make it to the courtroom under these similar circumstances. I don't I don't know if I

think that it's the law though. That's where I always have a challenge because I'm like, I don't think if you change the laws, because folks have been working on that for a long time too, that changes the circumstances with respect to how white folks will be viewed in the criminal justice is and the kind of bias in favor of them, the kind of privilege and favor of them. I think change the law doesn't change that. I know

people make that argument all the time. You know it's the law, but it's like, sure it is, um, But if someone is going to decide to bend and maneuver the law in a way to Taylor kind of outcomes for a particular group of individuals, no matter how you change that, you're gonna see that. UM. And I think the dread Scott decision that said that no black person has any rights that a white person has to honor right.

So that is the undercurrent that is I've never even I've never even heard that before say that again, um basically that no, no black person has a right any rights that a white person has to honor. Actually that was in a dread Scott decision. And so that's what you really see playing out here, that the fact that under normal circumstances, this individual would go to jail for his actions, but four that it was done to a

black person and they happen to be white. So I don't know if changing the laws changes that American sentiment that has been around for a very long time exactly. And when you look at these situations and you know that it's not the law, because you won't ever see

those laws benefit the black person. You know, you'll see a black person take their guns to a place where they're not from and be able to say that they were protecting someone or they were self defense when they went and initiated any level of you know, um, interaction with someone that that's you. I've never heard of such a thing. I know, people like myself, which I posted, you know, I was found guilty of a robbery with the gun that they never found, with items they never

found just on the word or somebody. And I was never even at the scene of the crime, but I was sentenced to two to four years for a gun that never even was showed up, that never they've never

seen that. They it's a mystery gun. But yet still we watch ridden house rittenhouse go to a place with the gun that he shouldn't have been that saying that he's protected property that wasn't his then nobody asked them to, and then say that all these people who didn't have guns, who didn't they initiated violence against him and he was protected in this life. In that mind state comes from a white supremacist mind state. It it comes from of the mentality that white people can do what they want

and they shouldn't be questioned. And you know, the interesting thing that we heard at the trial, which was it was shocking, but it also wasn't surprising, which is what I think a lot of these cases are. Is a white woman saying that he should have just been captured, right, A man should have just allowed them to capture him.

And that sentiment speaks to this, A man should have allowed three white men who don't have badgers who are in their own cars to essentially stop him in the middle of the street, guns drawn, and he should have just put his hands up and laid down on the floor for random white folks. Um And for me, I was saying to someone what this seems like to me is that every white person in America is essentially deputized as law enforcement against every black person in America. And

I think you saw that in the George immiment. Try. I think that's what you actually see happening. White folks can engage black folks in any way they want. They can be judge, jury, and executioner, and they can determine if the law is broken or not without law enforcement, without a prosecutor, and without a judge standing in their place or making that decision. They could do it themselves and then have the law as it exists. That you were right. That's that's deep. I wanna I want to

go right back to something real quickly. Did come back into that, Angel, because I think that's a powerful point. But the and and you Angelo, do you got would you all consider because you know I'm learning and treat politicians is about we learn and we teach. Do you consider Kyle Rittenhouse to be an insurrectionist, is that a part of the insurrection mentality? Absolutely. I mean you watched Kyle and videos at bars um talking to people who could be seen as affiliated with some of these groups

that showed up on January six. I mean, the the audacity that they have that they can just walk around on why people are engaging in First Amendment right um activities, uh and and just carry a semi automatic weapon across state lines. Um. This is what the insurrectionists mindset is. They thought they believed they could stroll up into Washington, d C. Go inside the capitol, break the windows, you know, harassed police officers, steal documents from members of Congress's office.

And they really believed in their hearts that they were going to do that and just get away with it. And the mentality is I'm going to do these things

and I'm going to get away with it. Just just that just that idea that they have in their mind is something that none of us understand and you and meet to because we've been arrested plenty of times UM in Washington, d C. In some of the same places that we watched them destroy the plate the Saint, we walked down the same hallways that they marched down, and we got arrested for doing nothing but using our our

our mouths our words. And I remember when we were protesting against Kavanaugh, the Kavanaugh nomination to the Supreme Court. All I did was in the Senate chambers, I just stood up and all I said was this is a travesty of justice, a mockery of our democracy. That's all I did. I just used my words, and all of a sudden, a white police officer literally dragged me across seven chairs and I had lorses on one side of my body for weeks after that. That's all I did.

And then not seeing the same treatment. And I'm not saying that I want to see people abused and whatever, but the point is is again the application of like we go there understanding that just a standing and blocking a hallways going to get us arrested, the fact that they thought they could destroy windows and climb up the sides of the buildings and not is the same mentality that Kyle had. He was he was looking at these

people like I could be like them. He was a young impressionable boy who was like this is what I strived to be, and The thing is, I don't think it's just that they're gonna get off, right like in the written House case is a great example. He didn't just get off. He didn't just get the judge saying he was a nice boy. He's got national attention. He's gotten congressmen to say they want to give him an internship. He's gotten President Trump to tweet about him and stand

with him in pictures and laud him. He's gotten much more than simply getting off. And black folks when we find and other folks when we find ourselves in a similar situation as you mentioned, Linda, when you were arrested in d C. You didn't just get arrested. You got dragged, you got pulled, you got thrown. So I think the important piece is not just that folks are getting off, but that folks are getting a lot more when they

get off. And it's not just that black folks get arrested, but it's that you might die, you might get killed, you might get tortured in jail when you get arrested. So you see these very two extremes play out when black folks versus white folks find themselves in the clutches of the criminal justice system. So I think we have to be more careful in how we exp lane these very different experiences when two different folks enter the same system. To me, that is where just injustice and inequality kind

of reign through the most. That's telling Vangelo, And I think for me it's just it's just you know it it um, it just tells the mentality of America. You know, Like you said, Redhouse raised about Timm and Dallas for his leagal fus, you know, and then when you see him with UM forty five, it's like wow, you know, it's not like wild to you, but it's like, you know what, I think it's like wild because it's so blatant.

It's so blatant that we can just see this and this is, this is and then a day afterwards, you know, um, the people that he's praises, you know, they actually the proud Boys and other people who were, um, the people who are what's the lady's name who was killed old during the Charlotteville Race, what was her name? The white woman that was her and other people were awarded twenty

six million. So it's like, you see and we recognize what's going on in America and sometimes it's painful, but we we've become so numb and you know, jaded to the reality of racism in America and white supremacy and how it shows up, like Angelo said differently, for us, how we can be thrown to merely state in our opinion, and and and themn they're killed for state in our opinion, when they can kill people and be celebrated and called the hero, you know, people who who aren't any threat

to them. You know, I don't. I still can't. Every time I think about this case, the rettenhouse case, it just brings me back in a mad already. It brings me back to Trayvonn. It's the same thing a young black boy walking the street and someone who was armed feel like they have to protect the community against this man because they're walking by black or they're jogging by black. But the people, but people will push back against that

and this um. You know, I want to say the talk about as well, because I am so confused as to why there are many black people who don't see how the written house situation is a black issue, and so there are people pushed back against that because they'll say it's not Trayvon, it's not the same thing. These were white people killing white people, and they feel you're

race baiting when you try to bring the two issues together. Well, the reality of situation is that a white man went to a black rally, a rally that was about an officer who shot and and paralyzed the black man for who was unarmed, who was walking to his car, and shot the man in the back. And this rally was against protesting against the violence that the police had done

to a black man. So when Kyle Rittenhouse left his home, he knew that there was a rally that was going on for black people, and he said, I'm bringing my gun and these people are not going to do things to this community because I'm gonna step up and I'm gonna do this and I'm tired of this and I'm this is what I'm doing. So his mind state when he went to that rally was that it was a pro black rally. It was something that black people were

protesting against. When he got to that rally, he met white allies of black people who seen him out there, and he probably antagonized those people and say, hey, you guys, it is and this and that and we don't care about Black lives Matter and all this ship, and he got into altercations with those people. I very doubt that the people that chased him and all of that who didn't have guns, that they initiated violence him. I just don't see that the same way, even though I wasn't

there for trade bar his invenment. I doubt that trade on lord a man with a gun into an alley, you know, and said, oh, you know what you're I'm a young boy and I'm a loryer. You into this dark alley while you have a gun so that I

can be the aggressive against you. And and the mind state that comes with that is the mind state of individuals saying that black people are dangerous, right, it is the mindset is saying that all people around black, anything that's attached to black, black allies, all of the you know, the the whole narrative that they was talking that the Black Lives Matter protests or riots and people are crazy and everybody is the most dangerous people in the world.

So this is where the mentality comes from, and this is where the racism enacts. The initial thought process of cal Rittenhouse was I'm going to a black rally with my gun, and whatever I have to do with this gun, I'm gonna do it. So if people don't identify that as racism and and you know, and realize what he was there for with the mentality how he drove across state line, This young boy who shouldn't even have been with any gun at all, drove acrourse their lives. What

was his mentality? Who emboldened him to think that he should be able to be doing this, you know? And it's the only thing that does that is white of supremacist. Yeah, because he was out there in my judgment two to take care of nigger lovers. Because that's what it is like. I don't I don't even know why. I think some people just want Maybe they they just don't want to believe what's right before their eyes in terms of the racism and all of the injustice and oppression that they see.

So perhaps they're just like trying to come up with a way to make make it make sense. But then there are other people that are just straight trolls. They know better, but they have decided that they're going to take a position against our communities because maybe it's more comfortable for them on the other side. These are the Candice owned lovers. These are are the ones who, um, you know, will tell us how Trump did a lot for black people that I still haven't figured out what

it is. You know. These are folks who who will get us caught up in conversations that we know make absolutely no sense, because I find myself trying to explain even to family members why some of these situations can be deemed as racist, and they, you know, they say, no, not everything is racist, and it's not. You know, I no, we're not talking about everything. We're talking about the things that are So you know, I I completely I know

for for sure. In fact, I believe and maybe y'all think something different, but I believe that when the judge said to Kyle Rittenhouse, you're a good boy, that he was not saying it in terms of like, oh, you know, you're so sweet and or kind or whatever, but that instead he was literally pubbed saying to him, you did the right thing. That's what I think. I think the judge has a white supremacist mindset as well. Of course, he was saying, good job, boy, you know, you did good,

you did well. And I think that's what America does, And I think you gotta you just have to know history. Even like when the Freedom Rides took place and Cheney, Goodman and Schwerner were killed when they went down south, it was white allies who got murdered too, And at some point white supremacists are not differentiating between black folks and white allies. You're in the same pot, You're in

the same boat. And I think that's what we saw in this trial because the reality of it is, is it it's not just that they're opposing black folks, which is of course what they're doing, but they're also opposing

anything that threatens the power that they currently have. You know, a white person or white ally or brown person or whatever person, and you're saying that white supremacy should not stand and function that does it exists if you say that black lives matter, if you say that black people should not be killed in the street, if you protest when it happens, you are in the same vote as black voters. Right. But is that is that also? And Linda, you could get in on this part. Is that also

the immigration struggle? Is it that it threatens right power if you will to have immigrants be made whole in

this country. Is it does it have something to do with the declining population of white people, or do you think that it's just you know, America is overloaded with it with folks and we just need to keep people out the bottom line to me, because it's that's exactly what the problem is then, and that's also part of the fight around voting rights, around suppressing the rights of voters on particularly black voters and brown voters and poor

communities across the country. The demographics of this country are changing, um, not only due to immigration but also through um intermarriage. Uh. And then we're also watching black and brown communities build political powers. So now we're starting to see more representation in the state legislators, in the city councils, even in Congress, and starting to see people talk about issues that the movement has been working on on the ground for decades,

maybe some will say centuries. And so that's what's threatening them, seeing that they're losing power, they're losing grip on on on on the centuries of of just literally monopolizing power incorporations and legislators and in every aspect really of our lives. And immigration threatens that UM and and and or at

least in their mind they believe that. But the bottom line is, we need this is a country that was, you know, kind of founded on this idea that you know, this is a place where people can flee political persecution, they can flee religious persecution, they can flee extreme poverty and come and have a chance at life. And a lot of these white folks themselves, they're not indigenous to

this land. So it's always so hypocritical that we talked about we don't want immigrants here, um and then and then not think about, as Angelo said, the history of this country, like the Pilgrims came here and they were undocumented immigrants. You didn't have no papers, Nobody asked you to come here. You came because you were fleeing multiple things in Europe and other parts of the world, and

that's how you got here in the first place. And now all of a sudden, when they gained power and they have all this access, now they want to stop other people from having that same opportunity. Immigration is a is a very divisive issue um in this country, and

immigrants deserve to have full rights and full dignity. And if we were embombing people's countries and if we weren't creating financial instability against many of these nations and actually involving ourselves in ways that shouldn't, maybe these people wouldn't want to come here either, because nobody wants to leave their home, nobody wants to leave everything that they knew

to come to America. They come here because of very desperate measures, and the and the pilgrims came here in pillage, right. So to the point is that white folks were the first immigrants of this country. They were the first folks who came to the shores and tried to get in when folks didn't want them in, and they caused a tremendous amount of destruction at that. They didn't come in and say, hey, we just want to work, we want to work with you. They came in and caused destruction.

And I think they also know the power that comes along with becoming politically involved, right and assimilating. So they're beginning to witness other folks do what they did, and I think it makes them very fearful of what the future is to hold. And I don't think you could shake that now. You can't, you can't shape it. I think that you know the inferiority complex that many white people and particularly people who are in position and the

power in this nation have is very dangerous. It always has been and it continues to be threatening, life threatening to us. And here we are now sitting waiting on Um a decision about something that I just you know, just to just to watch AMA's mom go through what she's going through. And I've been at the side of way too many mothers for a long time that have had to sit through these trials and really are not confident. You know, they're just not confident that of what will happen,

and they should be. So it's a painful moment. But Mice, I know you had some other stuff you wanted to say, UM, And I just want to thank you all, my friends, my comrades for you know, let's be let's let's continue to to stay together because we all we got Yeah. I just wanted to just get a consensus, Like at the end of the day, what do you guys, what

is your good feeling about this trail? Man? I really think just based off not just the evidence only just based off of them wanting to see these tapes and hear this not on one car I think there's probably one or two people in there that's trying to, you know, say, hey, I think maybe it was self defense or it could have been. But I think the majority of people have the consensus of you know, this man was murdered. I think for me that ultimately, ultimately that you know, they

will be found guilty. That's just how I feel. I believe. Unfortunately, you know, America doesn't give you much to believe in, But I just believe that this is too heineous and it's too obvious for you know, a jury, complete jury to just say that it didn't happen. Just just this is how I feel. Maybe I'm I wish we're thinking, yeah,

I think it's crazy. And I think the same was true in so many cases that we actually have to watch the tribe the tribal excuse me of a murder that we witnessed, like we're actually watching the trial of a murder that we also caught on tape, which is insanity if it's not open and shut in some degree. But I think in this situation, my gut is telling

me that it's gonna be a hung jury. I don't think you have the circumstances in the written house case where you have a young white boy where folks can look at them and see their child and they're super overly sympathetic and don't want anything bad to happen to him. I think you're gonna have some folks on the jury that say, hold lord, these older white men did something wrong.

But I think you're gonna have enough jurors, or at least one juror in the mix, to also say, well, maybe they didn't do it, or maybe the law shouldn't be applied to them like that. And I think what you're gonna see this is my perspective as a hung jury. They're not going to be found guilty, They're not gonna being found innocent. But I think the jury is not going to be able to come together and decide kind of the guilt or innocence on this case, and as

a result, these folks are gonna get off. I'm with

Angelo on that one. The uncertainty of it all, and what people have to understand about these types of trials is that all it takes is one person, one person to say I don't agree that they're guilty, because the jury has to come back with pretty much a unanimous verdict, and if they're not able to reach that, uh, what happens usually is they'll come back to the courtroom and say we haven't been able to reach a verdict, and the judge will tell them go back for a couple

of more hours, but eventually it becomes a hung jury. And and what the defense attorney, the woman was doing, really is what she said to the jurors, which is what really worried me. She said, listen, even if you think that they're guilty, but there's one percent chance that they're not guilty, then legally you cannot bring back a guilty verdict. So she's basically telling them, if you have a little doubt, a little drop of a doubt in your body, that you cannot come back with a guilty verdict.

And that is kind of what threw me off a little bit, because we cannot guarantee that twelve people are sitting in that deliberation room being like these three men are one guilty there. You know, people are human, they always decide, you know, maybe and have factors that they want to bring into it. But when she said, if you think they're one percent not guilty, you have to come back with a not guilty verdict and that kind

of threw me off. So I'm not keeping my hopes up too much, but I hope, um, that we come back with some accountability, some justice, because wander Cooper deserves that, the a mod of are very families deserve that, and really this past week, I think black people in America deserve something, especially as we go into the holidays. Yeah, no, I I agree. Um, I think it's gonna be a guilty verdict period. And UM, you know, I think I think,

I I do agree with you that we all deserve that. Um. I believe that there's someone or someone's on that jury that just that are able that had that were okay, let me say this, I think that idea or the fact that they have called for those videos means that someone or someone's have said stop trying to act like

what what what happened did not happen. Perhaps it's a hung jury, but I think that whoever it is or whomever they are, have made a strong case with the jury that what the defense attorney is trying to tell you is a trick. They're playing a trick on your mind. But the truth is there and the proof is in the putting it's in the videos, in the tape, So I was really encouraged by them calling for the tapes today. And I do think it's gonna be a guilty verdict.

But I also think that one of the killing factors is how the defense attorney took a lot of time to communicate certain things about black people, black men, particularly two white women with a majority white woman jury. She said things that are it's a depiction of the super predators, which is you know what what Hillary Clinton called um, young black men years ago, um that you know, we're perceived and or actually committing crimes. Right, she called them

super predators. And I think that, uh, the the the the the words that the defense attorney used in a way in which she spoke about a mod arvery was yet another example of the narrative that is out there about black men. And for me, there will be a guilty verdict, but the verdict is also guilty on how white women UM had for far too long conspired against black men, and that's something that we also are going

to have to address. I absolutely, and that's the that's the part to make it that also worried me because as we've experienced over the past couple of years that white women, oftentimes and of course not all white women, but white some white women are not to be trusted.

And watching the way the women was trying to appeal to their fears and the ways in which she described Ahmad are Very, which was the most disgusting, most outrageous thing that I've ever heard, and to the point where Wanda Cooper reaches add Areby's mother had to walk out

of that courtroom. That was also what worried me to She was trying to paint this picture that Ahmad Arevery is not the victim here um that in fact, that the McMichaels were protecting the community from Ahmad Areverrey, and that that they were almost trying to say that that that these you know, these men were you know, defending their communities. That they were talking to the neighbors. You know, these are people, these are good citizens that wanted a

safe community for the children. And she was talking about, uh, you know she if you remember, she was kind of describing some of the neighbors like this elderly couple and the single woman who was living, you know, in a house by herself, and then this family that had three little girls you know, and and and and the way she was trying, she was implying things that were so racist, um that it was it was like it was hard

to even sit through that and listen to that. And I know she was specifically speaking directly to the white woman and the jury and I and I know that one of the women on the jury who she continuously said, and then and then the other defense attorneys were claiming that there was a woman on the jury that was like sleeping and was it really focused and paying attention.

I think she may have been a white woman that might have been rolling her eyes and might not have been giving them the type of facial responses that they wanted, because everybody else was like, I didn't see the lady sleeping, And so there might have been one white woman who was like, yeah, I'm not buying that, But then there are others that might have been buying into that argument. Oh thank you guys, man. You know, I love you guys.

It's been a it's been a tough week. But I wouldn't want to do it with anybody else with you, man, until a freedom. You know the work that we do, and each one of you do. I'm a fan of you guys. So I just want to appreciate you and give your flowers while you're here. Man Um, thanks for coming on, giving your expertise in in the in the field and just you know, just sharing space with us

and just just being here. Man. We we just deal with so much just as the people, but we I know exactly what us for a deal with on an everyday basis. So I just want to say thank you for getting up at ten o'clock in the morning to join us on street politicians after you left for us for two days and you only get three hours of sleep. Man, I just want to say thank you all for doing that. Thank you all for having We love you, Mice and Tamika. Well we got, we got we all we need. There

you go, there you go. Well, thank you. We're gonna see later. We got work to do, so we'll hit you right after we get over here to be doing something else. That's crazy, that's out of my mind. So I love you Angelo and Linda vote like I mean, I hope that people get to see the brilliance right like they get to see and understand why we spent so much time with the two of them, Because Angelo is like the Quiet Storm, He's like, you know, the he know, his his analysis of these issues, it's so

it's so deep. And what I love is some lawyers is just legal, but in his situation, it's not just legal. He also has a radical position for what freedom fighting actually looks like and what justice looks like. And so, you know, I always appreciate talking to him. And then you know Linda, she's so knowledgeable about these issues and the ways in which she pays attention to what's happening with black folks is what real accomplishing. I don't even know if that's the right word, but real ally ship,

that's what it really really looks like. And so, uh, you know, I just I was, I'm glad we got up today too, uh, sit and talk with them because I think that the depth of analysis that has happened with this show, and you know what is to come, it's going to be important for people to be able to see beyond the emotional sort of knee jerk reaction

that we have to these cases. Um. So you know, I always just appreciate having my brother insisted to be with us, But my son has gotta be something that you don't get This week I mean, it's a lot

that I don't get this week. Man. You know, I just before before I get into that, I was just I was sitting here thinking when Angelo was giving his analysis and and you were talking about how they were sending these dog whistles to the you know, the conservative white women of how dangerous and these you know, these things about black men, and I thought about Birth of a Nation, you know, I thought about there was original movie about Birth of the Nation that had a man

in black face that painted the black man as this monster. You know, in the whole movie was to put fear of black men into white women, into white people. And that's exactly what you know, the defense attorney was trying to do when she's talked about a Mar's dirty nails, and and she talked about his baggy shorts and how he had he had once been a good boy and somehow he went off, you know, and and and and this this is this is the mentality that most white

supremacists see of black people. And it's not even white supremacist white people who have been brought up on white privilege and white supremacy just to believe that black people, especially black men, are just dangerous, you know. So when I heard that, it immediately clicked in my mind. How you know, this is how KA thinks and how and and they don't even believe it to be racist. They just think, you know, yeah, black people are just dangerous, man.

They still the kiddy. They can harm you. You know, when you see them, you should be scared of them. And it's a mentality that's been embedded in privileged white people who have never grown up around black people for as long as I've ever known. So I just wanted to say that. And basically what I don't get is I don't get none of it, you know. I don't get how after trade Vonmar and we're still talking about this. I don't get how Kyle Rittenhouse can go home and

then be called the hero. I don't get how Ahma Arebury it is still on trial even though it's not the trial of Ama Arebury. I don't forget. I don't get how we as black and brown and and marginalized people still have to look at the case that we know it's clear cut murder and have to say we don't know what's gonna happen. I just don't get why why we become so accustomed to injustice, we've grown so accustomed to not getting it right or what especially when

it comes to us. You know that when in the cal Riddhouse case, there's no black man that would have went to that trial. Every black man would have tried to figure out a plea boggame because they would have said, they're gonna hang you. They would have looked and said, you just killed these people and you shouldn't have been there, and you had a gun, and we don't even know why you had a gun. You need to cop out, You will need to cop out and try to get

the best things so they don't kill you. Don't get how Julius Jones committed a crime or supposedly committed crime, and nineteen that they found out that there is there's reasonable doubt to believe he didn't and we we only thing we can access that they didn't murder him. They didn't. We we we we we could We had to celebrate not not that after twenty years of five years in prison, that they were freeing him, that they didn't murder him, that they didn't put lethal injection into his body and

take his life for a crime. That it's more often than not, he probably did not commit. But yet Karl Rittenhouse is called the hero for killing people who didn't have anything, who didn't who we know, we watched him see this week. And yet Amard Aarbrery is on trial. I hate to say, but Armand Aubrery is on trial.

The ladies sat in that courtroom and said that he refused to be captured, and for some strange reason, he chose to fight, and that really hurt me so bad, because why should we allow you to capture us and we've done nothing wrong. What gives you the privilege to think that you could capture us and and and and trap us and we're supposed to not fight you damn righty? For he fought for his life because he's seen white men trapping him on the road when he did nothing wrong.

As he jogged with guns and he lungs because he said to myself, if I don't, they're gonna kill me anyway. So this is all I got to do is fight. And I don't know why we are crucified for fighting for our lives. So I don't get none of this ship. I don't understand none of this ship. And as I think about it more makes me more and more angry. It makes me sad that I have young black boys that I have to raise in this country where they will be on trial if a white man murders. I

don't think there's anything left to be said. That's it. I don't get it either, So I can't give an explanation. I don't get it, and I'm not gonna make myself comfortable with or or try to, you know, say oh, well, this is just how it is. I refused to do that. I will forever, uh try to be hopeful when situations like a verdict is imminent. I want to believe that it's going to go in the right way until it doesn't. I'm going to always hope that this country, this nation,

can be better. And I'm going to always be outrage whenever a black person or any marginalized community is threatened by the authority and the privilege, the white privilege, the white supremacist mindset that reigns over our society. And so you know, that's I guess that's naive of me. Maybe it's a mature, maybe it's a lack of leadership and vision,

but that's how I'm going to operate forever. I love your optimism, Queen, but I just know for me, you know, the same song, you know, and as a black man, and looking at that situation, knowing that I would have done the same thing, that I would not have been captured. I would have not allowed you to tell me that you're gonna pull your gun and tell me to stop where you kill me and allowed my hand, your life, my life to be in your hands, and for me not to fight back for my life. I would have

did the same thing he did. I would have did the same thing Trey Vonde, you know, and understanding that that ultimately might lead to my demands. It's it's it's a hard feeling, but it's it's real for me, you know. So you I want you to have the optimism, Queen. I'm just gonna live life on life's terms and and you know, and I'm gonna hope for the best, but I definitely have to assume worse. And with that said,

I'm not gonna always be right. You're not gonna always be wrong, but we will both always and I mean always be authentic. Pay listen to street politicians on the Black Effect Network on I Heart Radio and catch us every single Wednesday for the video version of Street Politicians on I Women Dot TV.