Play Chess Not Checkers “White Lives Matter Trademark”

And last week on his page, I saw that he shared how you know he's making like the stitching the embroidery process for Boycott Black Murder, and I thought that was super super cool. And Um, this new merch that you have on today, UM was done for the event that happened last week, which us the announcement of and or the premier of your world class video. One of

the best videos that I've seen you do. And you have many and I love many of them, but this is really powerful, the Boycott Black Murder m video and song. And in the video, your nephew Chris, my little homie, he plays um a character of an individual who is you know, he's out in the street, he shoots many people. Um and at the end of the video we find out that uh, he was shooting himself, or at least the depiction is every time he shoots someone, he was

shooting himself. The video is powerful. By now everybody should have downloaded it, uh and had the opportunity to check it out to support Until Freedom because it is an

Until Freedom campaign. We're super proud of what you have accomplished with this material, but what it is doing this opening up a conversation, and so immediately following the screening that we did of the video, we had a conversation that included the moderator, Landell McMillan, who is the owner of the Source magazine, but he was the lawyer for Prince Um. He's been in the culture, you know, Landell has been a culture creator for years and years and years.

I mean, I don't know, I'm not gonna age him, but I know he's older than us. And Laondel is well known as an entertainment attorney and one who again has been like at the cutting edge of many cultural things for you know, as long as I can remember. And then on the panel also was a T. Mitchell a man up in Brooklyn. Our brother who is the New York City Czar for Violence UM Intervention. Yeah, Violence

Intervention and Prevention UM. He is the mayor has a point into him with that role, and he's been doing an incredible job of bringing people together around this issue of violence, intervention and prevention. Then also on the panel was Congressman Jamal Bowman, who's from the Bronx UH. He's an a former educator. He's a congress person who is a squad member. So he's one of those that's in Congress fighting for us, fighting for our issues, and you know,

and speaking truth to power. Congressman bowing is strong. I see the trajectory of where he's going. The only thing that's gonna getting in Bowman's way is the scary negroes in Congress who would try to block him because he's too too powerful, too strong, he's too black, and he knows the issues too well. And he calls out white supremacy all the time, and you know, black people are scared to save white supremacy. Some about people um or you know, to talk about to talk about white supremacy.

Then on the panel also was the Great kep Rick Kers who is the Chief Wellness Officer at Life Camp UM, which is life Camp is one of the premiers UH violence intervention and prevention organizations in the nation. She was joined on the panel also um UM. She was joined on the panel also with Bud Erica Ford or with Erika Ford, who is the head of Life Camp, the founder UH And so you guys had a real powerful conversation about the It was a very solution based conversation UM.

And I just you know, I think that what and now we have people calling saying can we do it in other cities? So that's what this video, the powerful video as well as the conversation has created. Yeah, it was. It was a beautiful turn off. I want to think everybody who came. We we did it like really last minute, and we had limited space, so we invited, you know, a close knit group or people who are doing this work.

I loved ones of people who we know we'll be able to take the message and utilize it in their own areas and places to be able to make sure that the video gets a little traction. But it was. It was an excellent conversation that you know. I was blessed by the response from the video. Shoutout to Mark

Garcia on point blank who shot the video? Mark? You you always beating up on Mark, like job when he's when he's serious, he's focused, man, he's when he's a dope director and you know, and he loves what he does. So I want to shout out him for the video.

And also, like you said, my nephew Chris. But the conversation that followed the video was compelling to me, just hearing everybody talk um, just knowing that we all have something special that we bring, you know, and understanding that violence is a culture, right, It's become a culture inside our society, and we have the ability to shift the culture, right, And that conversation was co you're shifting, like, shout out to Keepra man. Everybody kept coming to be like, yo,

who's kemper? Like Kebyra has she has an ability two. You know. It's just certain people that when you listen to them, they shift. They just shift the way that you think, Yeah, she's skilled in a way that she talks and it resonates and and and it disarms you, right, I can't. Like I was listening to her and I'm like, we need a keeper in every community. Right, because if Kepra is outside, I can't see people want to be with each other and she's having a conversation, you know.

So when she's a healer, she's like she and that is not that is not it's not a tern right, that's not like, oh, she's a healer. You know, I could be a healer. You could be healing. No, that's a god given anointing to be a healer where your voice can actually number one. I won't show you. Yeah, we have had it on our show, and you know, she also did several weeks of um Fridays on my um uh Instagram as well, So yeah we have, but

it's it's been a while. But she's so great in terms of her understanding of not just the mental um uh like what Like she said, mental health is one thing, but that makes you narrow in on schizophrenia, anxiety or this or that one issue. But when you think about spiritual warfare and that that is actually what our communities are experiencing. It's a spiritual warfare and it is being

fed by the culture, by entertainment. Infotainment is so much coming at us that we're literally at war with ourselves. And of course with this world and the way in which she breaks it down. She has to be a part of every conversation because and she and others like her, Queen of Foul and others, they have to be a part of these conversation sations because you can't talk about solutions and what we have to do as a people if you don't deal with the root of our concern

our issues that most people never even talking. Most people if you walked up to a person just in you know, that rouge Louisiana that's waiting to get them some food from the local chicken spot, and you start talking about spiritual warfare and things we're up against, they might be like, yeah, I kind of get it, but like rink gotta be paid, you know, uh, food needs to be on the table. Matter of fact, get out the way because I'm trying to get this because I gotta run and go pick

up my kid from school and these things. So you have to in these conversations. We have to be able to slow down enough to hear the content that she's putting forward. So I just, you know, I thought the whole thing. Erica's um her her masterful way of explaining that at the end of the day, we could talk about what black folks need to do and what's happening

in our communities. We have to keep our eye on the fact that there are there's intentional oppression happening, you know, and and and Congressman Bowman said, policies are created every

day to inflict harm on our community. So when people walking around, which brings me to the whole midterm elections conversation, when people are walking around talking about they don't need to vote and just get money, get money, we need to be real clear about the danger in that because while we are not paying attention to the mid term elections and other elections federal, all levels where there are people being voted into office, what happens is that they

are making policies that the majority of our people will be impacted by. See. My thing is that the whole idea of getting to the bag is important. And certainly in these conversations that we're having about violence community, you have to have all the components, the healers, the grassroots organizers, the elected officials, the the economic development folks, like there's so many different the practitioners, if you will, so many

different areas that have to be covered. But what we have to understand is that those these things, it's a heart and every all of these things become arteries, they've become connections. It is not one. If you cut off another supply, the heart will stop. The heart can't live just with one particular thing pumping into it. It requires

all the we've seen it. We know, right, we should put it on the screen so people can see there are there are multiple uh functioning organs in our body that makes us live, and when one of those organs goes bad, the body starts to break down. And so with that being said, we cannot allow other people to make policy decisions on our behalf and we take our eye off the ball. We have to ensure that we're in the process so that we can at least if

for nothing else. Yeah, it's true we're not getting enough. We're not getting enough, we're not gaining enough. But we damn sure need to be blocking folks who want to put things in place and policies in place that will harm most of our people. When as we work on the economic strategies that are important, and we're gonna we're leading towards that place. Right, We're working on the economic strategies, strategies.

It's gonna take years and to catch all of our people in this nation and get them in the pipeline and get them educated and give them the things they need, get them on the farms, get them fed. That takes time. It takes unity too, and it takes us being able, uh, you know, to work in a way that we are not all the way prepared. But we're getting there. We're

getting there because people are waking up. But what what is happening every day is that Ray Ray, Jojo, Keisha and Letitia them they live in communities where policy is impacting everything they do from moment to moment. And for some of us to be so elite in our thinking that because we're not living in those spaces that we can just turn off the system. That is not a

good idea. We must make sure that our people go to the polls because there's propositions, there are questions being asked, decisions being made, and we have to be a part of making those decisions. You're right, man, when we when we look at you know, what's going on with our society and how it's impacting us, you know, which brings me to the conversation of Curry. You know, money doesn't really have that much of an impact in certain and

certain arenas. Right, people can take money from you. They can they like when we look at Kanye situation when woman and being you know, saying you're the richest black man in America too. Next day realizing that people have the ability to take those finances from you, right, because there's no structure built, you know, that in place that makes sure that you're able to thrive, that you're able

that protects you from that. Right. So there's so many multifacets of the way that we have to be intentional about what we're doing, you know. And and that conversation really fed to that, you know, and we talk about our government, like Jamore Woman was saying a lot of things about policy, you know, and how it affects our communities and and and policy that you know can change

the dynamics of our community. Erica was talking about specific bills that they're trying to pass that can release amounts of funds into our community that can impact completely change and shift, you know, the reality of the community. Because I tell people all the time, you can't change the conditions of the community until you change the conditions of the community. You know, poverty is violence, Poverty is everything that you know, the structural um damage that's going on

in our communities. It stems from poverty, but it also and and poverty stems from you know, the laws. You know, the reason why our community support because there are laws that create that have been created to make sure that those communities support because, like I said all the time, capitalism cannot function without high and low. You know, capitalism wouldn't be a thing if there wasn't a poor class. You know, Unfortunately, it's cyclical. I saw Angelo Roi talking

about it the other day. It's cyclical. We're not voting because we're frustrated because we're not getting what we want from the system. But in order to get what you want from the system, you have to vote so that you can get inside the system. And you can't get inside the system if you stay outside the system and it goes around and around, and even to your point

from an economic perspective, you can't. You will experience a change in policy that will stop you from being able to make money in certain ways if you're not paying attention everything you want to do. And I think It's actually very naive of some folks to think that other communities don't pay attention to policy because the policy represents how they live. I see people saying that the Asian community they don't care about that, you know, they don't

vote up. Let me tell you what is it called Chinatown. They are absolutely engaged in policy in their area and in that community so that they can make sure that they have their businesses, their banks, and everything that they control in those areas. And it goes all the way up the system. So then, in other words, you have local folks, but then there're state folks, and then there's federal legislation. Ship we always talk about. I get hit

every day with the Asian Hate Crime Bill. UM. That passed because Mitch McConnell's wife is an Asian woman, and they were able to push it through through uh Congress and the Senate quickly with her supporting advocacy and Mitch McConnell, who happens to be one of the most powerful white

men in this country. So of course they got it done right, um and and and so if if Asians didn't care and they weren't engaged, and how in the world did we come up with the Asian Hate Crime Bill or Asian So I forget the name of it, but it's not out of disrespect. I just can't remember exactly what it is that happened because the Asian community UM had had advocates and there are people lobbying on their behalf. So it is what it is, you know.

And I think at all of this consistently brings us back to the conversation around Kyrie, the moment that we're in. I know there are some people who have said, well, Tamika, you know you need to say more and do this that in the third and be out there fighting this. And first of all, people have no idea what we've been doing, so please don't assume that just because it's not on social media that there's not things happening UM. But also we're very strategic and understanding how all of

these things operate. And I know from my perspective experiencing UM, you know, a very traumatic UM moment with the label of anti Semitism being placed on me and knowing what it caused, knowing what's happening in the background with those individuals who are not trying to have reasonable dialogue right there are individuals from the Jewish community that are not trying to have reasonable dialogue. Their individuals even in our community,

that do not want to have reasonable dialogue. That is a challenge that we face, and I experienced the firsthand. So I know more about this issue than most people think. Do I support Kyrie one thousand percent? Do I think the Kyrie hates any community? No? I do not do I think that do. I also understand And that's the

other thing we are. We lack the ability to have nuanced in a nuanced conversation because I see as you've been writing, I've been reading some of your comments, and I see people saying, oh, he didn't do anything wrong, he didn't say anything, so he was forced to make an apology, And I get that. I get that feeling because certainly there were people who were trying to force me to say certain words. But I know that Kyrie

did not apologize. Uh. He says in it, there's a there's a line in it that lets me know that he had consciousness. I don't lead, first of all, that a man of Kyrie's stature, because on one hand, people are saying he's strong and he's powerful, and he won't be broken. But then on the other hand, they're saying that he was forced to put out a statement. You gotta do have to choose one or the other. Yeah,

they'll say, well, you can do both. And I don't believe that Kyrie is the type of person that if he meant something that he stood a hundred percent with it, that he was just gonna be forced to make a statement. I believe what he said in the statement is true, that he and I'm paraphrasing, but that he responded out of a place of being defensive. And I could tell people all about that right when when I saw that line, because I was breathing it, trying to see what is

this statement. Is this the statement that they typed up for you and you had to approve it, or is it a statement that actually represents your feeling? And when it said I responded out of place of being defensive, it occurred to me in that moment that these were his words, and the reason why it's not so much that he did any thing, um that he said anything wrong, or that he was intentionally being one thing. And I

get it. People are like when he wasn't trying to he was just trying to show a film that talks about or educates us on the roots of our history, right, and we get that. However, what I believe he apologized for and understood after being able to assess it from a non um defensive position, is that there are things in the film that denies the Holocaust and talks about Jewish people being evil that I watch it. No, do I trust the individuals that have told me exactly what lines.

I've had people give me specific statements. Did he did were those things in the film? Yes? Did he? Was? He probably paying attention or was it that deep to him at the moment. No, he probably was just like, Okay, it's it's a bunch of stuff in here that I may or may not agree with, but the basis, the premise of it is in more and and therefore he's

shared it. But the problem is, and where I can see him saying, hey, I apologize for this is the idea that when you have a major platform, When you have a major platform, unfortunately we are not giving the ability to just make flippant mistakes or put things out there without context and understanding for those people who are viewing it, and people pick apart every single thing we do so we have more of a responsibility with our platform.

And when people come and say, well, Tamika, this thing you said, it hurt me or it upset me, I can double down and say I don't give a ship because sometimes I don't. Or I can actually hear what it is that you're saying, reflect upon it, and not have any ego in saying, listen, I apologize. I can say that the problem becomes and I know, I'm I'm I'm talking a lot, but I haven't really been talking about this. The problem becomes when you have people around you.

And let's let's be real clear. Let's be real clear.

In my situation when words, specific words were being enforced on me to say, it was not just Jewish people who were doing that, because in fact, as you know, we met a number of black Jews, which by the way, I didn't even know existed, and many of our conversations and relationship began to to be built around black Jews helping me to understand the nuances within the Jewish community and them being black and Jewish at the same time, and being able to understand our position and things that

we were feeling. Right, it was not just white Jews, who some of them also became very good friends of mine. I have friends that are my Jewish. Rabbi bar Elman is a very good friend of ours. And Sophie, a daughter, very good friend of ours. These are people who we and we we have deep relationship with at this point. And it took time and it came through controversy. But it was not just Jewish people who were telling me

which words to use. It was not. There were all types of people may and and yes, mainly white people, some black, but mainly white, people of all different backgrounds were trying to force on me words to say. So when Kyrie says I apologize and somebody tells you you have to say I'm sorry, that begins to strip a man of his humanity. I'm saying, and you and someone said to me, Kyrie says, I apologize, you say I'm sorry, I say my bad. My brother Marvin being said, I

say my bad. When I want to apologize, I say my bad. Right, all of us have different ways of being able to express ourselves, and it is not right. I don't give a damn what anybody says to force people to say word words exactly as you wanted to be because we are not going to let you beat us into a level of submission. We do want to acknowledge wrong. He did acknowledge wrong, he apologized for and he admitted that I was defensive. Therefore I could not see.

But after deeper reflection, I recognized at that point if a man can't be allowed to apologize and move forward from that when we know he does not have a history of anything antie anybody. When we know that, then we're doing too much when we start demanding of him that he checked off boxes to fulfill someone else's fantasy about how to put a black man in his place. That's how I feel. Please don't think for any reason that because you don't see me talking about it every day,

that I don't know and cannot articulate my feelings. But this is a very personally traumatic thing for me, and i've all and he had to experience a lot in this area. I learned a lot. I also, uh, I learned a lot and I heard a lot all at the same time. And therefore it's okay to allow others to speak. Because when you have personal trauma and you bring it with you to a conversation, you may not be able to help in any way because you're bringing

your personal trauma into it. But do not think that I don't know how to describe what I see in front of me that has happening to a black man who happens to be my brother, who I have reached out to to tell him that we love him and to support him, because when people apologize, folks will tell you you're weak. But that is not being weak when you are a man who can say, listen, I made some mistakes here or some or some I moved in the wrong way in this area in that area, and

I'm acknowledging it. And anybody that doesn't respect that, shame on you, because I certainly do respect it. I don't really think as much else to say it after that, you know, I definitely have always been a fan of Kyrie the individual, especially you know, the way he carries itself, how he stands on principle, how he's always willing to do the right thing morally, you know, But for him,

it doesn't you know. And he's been adamant about saying that more things than basketball, and and and he and he's a great basketball player, and you know, he loves the game of basketball. But when you made a decision that the thing you you you studied and played for your whole life, isn't as important as the things that go on within you, with your people, and within the real world and outside of you know, your passion. When you realize that your purpose is to bring light, he said,

I'm a beacon of light. You know, that's what I'm here for. I'm here to to be a beacon of light. And you've accepted that and you're willing to deal whatever comes with that. That that that's a level of integrity for me, you know, And I don't. I don't see anything about Curry that's anti anything. I think he's anti negativity. I think he's inti falsehoods. I think he's anti you know, the worldly things being dominating over what he believes is God and what you know, what life is really about.

I think he's anti those things. But as far as negativity pro or pro instead of us using anti, he's pro positivity. As you said, instead of anti negativity, it's pro positivity. And I and I know I'm cutting you off what you've been talking about this for days, Ironman, he said, anything you know, we've never ever, ever watched Kyrie be anything other than who he is. Right, there's no, there's no, I'm not He's not questionable to me. That doesn't mean I agree with everything he said or do

or does. And I'm sure he don't agree with everything I do and say and saying to you, because that's not real. Right. We all have differences. But he's been solid as an individual overall all, especially with our communities, the things he supports, in the ways that he shows up, I've not ever seen him compromise himself uh to stand with our oppressors or to give our oppressors any type

of entry point to our communities. And therefore he deserves that we will be able to stand with him, even in a moment where he made a determination that he could have done things differently. Right, we should be able to stand with him during that time. And and you know, and and and and and and and and I am I am um. We can't. We can't. We can't cower on that. You know this, They cannot be well, I can just throw my brother out because these situations, this

situation could have been handled. No, it is. It is absolutely not okay to deny the Holocaust or to say that all Jewish, all white Jewish people are evil. That's not okay, that's not okay. I'm not okay with it. I'll give them what you said. And no, he didn't say it. He did not say it, but it was content in the film, and therefore the Jewish community had an issue with it, and Kyrie responded the way he felt he should respond. What more can you ask a

man for? And we ain't gonna always get it right. The first time we open our mouths were not. Sometimes you open your mouth and you don't even know what you're saying, especially when you got agents and people and this and owners and friends and family and everybody is coming at you and telling you, were telling you and telling you and accusing you of something that is not even in your heart. Because that's what I experienced, being accused of things that was not even in my heart.

So you respond the first time based upon that, and then maybe the second time you get a little better, but you still are in the battle, and after deep reflection, you have an opportunity to sit still and say, you know what I thought about it. I really thought about, not a thought about it to respond, but I thought about and I see you know where I could it could have done things differently. So I guess that was your thought of today, huh, because because I sure have

a lot of thoughts. But you know, that's that's what I have to say on that. So that's it. Agree, man, shout out to Curry, loving life to you can continue to be the beacon of life. All right, brings us Listen, we got so much controversy and conversations with this and that and the third it circles us. We're gonna circle to block back with our next guest that's coming up right now. That's so we have new friends that we

are welcoming to street politicians today. Uh, there's actually two, but today we've we've got one half of the duo with us. UM. And you know, they have been the top of conversation for the last two weeks at least every day. Everyone's talking about these two brothers. And here to represent them is rams this job of civic cipher um. And you know, uh, you guys, you guys have become um synonymous with this idea of like how do we

contain the term white lives matter? Um? And you know I've been watching your interviews and checking you all out and and and and and really just how articulate you are about so many different issues, and so we're happy to have you as one of our new friends. We have a joke on Street Politicians that every all of our friends on here doing great things, and so um, you all have down become our friends. Thank you so much for joining Street Politicians today. I appreciate you having

me that. Uh, that tone is energizing for me. And I'll speak on Ques behalf as well, because as you can imagine, not everybody is going to be a fan of every decision that you make, and when you're in the decider's seat, tries you might to do right by everyone. Um, people will pick you apart. So to hear here that that tone in your voice, that's that's energizing, and we definitely appreciate it. Now we know about those decisions. Don't

we missed the letting it is? It has to be a lot to to you know, you have some people who applaud you, do you have you know, the naysayers and the people that want to make it seem like you've done something wrong. So how how is that that? Um? Well, uh, let me start by saying that most the vast majority of people, UM, are really happy that this move has taken place. Like you said, it kind of contains something that a message that we really didn't want to get

out there, particularly in the name of fashion or commerce. Uh, you know, a phrase that that people, especially my people, our people, associate with hate. UM. So most people have been overwhelmingly supportive and that that feels very special. UM. The other the other half of this, though, as you can imagine, is that there are people who are very much, almost zealous when it comes to being a fan of uh, the the gentleman at the center of this whole thing.

And you know, we've we've been fortunate the media has been very kind. We've been fortunate enough to be able to say our piece. We don't agree with what he's doing. UM, I'll be a little bit, you know, uh softer. We don't think what he's doing is particularly smart wise. We don't think it's waking folks up in the way that's he's trying to do that. But we far be it from us to talk down. We can be fair and we can be firm, but we don't talk down on

our people. UM. We have to condemn the behavior, but the man we feel is still worth a little bit of dignity. UM. And he's admitted to us that he's going through some mental health challenges. He's he's he said it very publicly. He's a brilliant man. UM. And the and the problem with brilliance is that, UM, it can be used. It can become uh, the thing that you

use against yourself without knowing it can help. It can cause you to stand in your own way, or block your own blessing, or shoot yourself in foot or whatever metaphor you want to win. Certain and so we've we've been very careful too, UM, make sure that we're not tearing a black man down. That's not ever what we would ever want to do. Um. However, we have to be fair and in some instances we have to be firm. You know. This is one thing that's true about us, is that we are meant and so far be it

from us to coward. But at the same time, we have to be constructive with our approach and not destructive in as often as we can be. UM, if if if I may, uh. You know, again, the media has been very kind, but the comments and some of these sections you get different people subscribing to different realities, let's be honest, um, and their realities reflect their values. And so I don't want to say anyone's wrong or anyone

is right. But as you can imagine, it's very difficult to make a move, make a decision, say, say a thing that some group of people won't take an issue with. And so that's been very challenging because again, you know, if this was just one group, if this was white supremacist, if this was you know, that sort of thing, this would be easy to deal with. But the white supremacists have been very quiet. This has been our people trying to decide for us what the right thing to do is.

And um, so let me let me, let me jump let me jump in here and say one thing to you that I have learned. And there was a recent New York Times article, uh that was released maybe it was about a month ago now, and it talked about research that the New York Times did and how they found Russian bots were used to take down the Women's March. They were used pretty much to antagonize us, harass us

and specifically lender Saur soul as a Palestinian Muslim woman. Um. And then of course the rest of us caught it just because we were connected to her, UM and we know that even you know, as it got towards the latter part of our three years within the Women's March, UH, there was a absolute online attack against me personally. And what we found with that is the profiles are not

always the people. So even though it looks like black people, brown people at that time, some of them were Jewish people. The platforms look that way, but behind the scenes it was still white supremacists using some of these um these pages, UM. And so even though yes, I'm sure you're seeing a lot of black people who are given commentary because we get it all the time, so we know about it. But rest assured that there are probably more people to your original point with you and trying to help or

or see where this goes. Then there are people who are just negative and you know, anti whatever decisions you make, so hopefully that makes you feel better than you you might be hearing from people who are not even real us. You know what I'm saying, So listen, let me let me I want to go backwards real quick because I want people to know I have throughout my career. UM, whatever I'm doing, whatever I'm working on. It's like Jamika Mallory,

the Women's March, Jamika Mallory, this and that. But we never really get our own identity and get an opportunity to say who who am I? You know that it's outside of the label. So people associate you all with the White Lives Matter trademark, But who are you outside of that? What have you been doing? And what is civic cipher for? Civic? I appreciate that question, because yes we are. I'll speak for Q and myself. We are

men UM with fathers, we are DJs. Our background is in hip hop radio broadcasters UM, and civic cipher is something that was born out of the protests of UH during that time. As you can imagine, UM, seeing George Floyd lose his life, it motivated us to take action along with everyone else in our city and having a higher profile me UM because I had done like you know, afternoon Drive for many years. I had like billboards and all that sort of stuff in this city, so folks

knew the name RAMS this job in Arizona, you know. UM, I felt like I could do more UM then stay home and just ride ride it out, you know. And and that's not my way anyway. You know, when I was a very young man, nineteen years old, I met um, my college mentor and my lifelong friends don't very close to me today. In fact, she was giving me some advice yesterday. She's very much my elder, Dr Camilla Westenberg.

And when I was nineteen, I became the president of the Double A C. P. Blacks student union at my college, and she was the teacher and the chair of that chapter. So uh, by the time I got into radio, I kind of knew who I was. And you know, my hair, and I know that many people can't see it, but I wear my hair the way it grows, um, and I don't cut it. Um. That is a choice that

I made. That is by design. I have to represent my people in rooms where my people aren't represented, because I often get to make it there and I'm the only one. And I have to bring my legacy and my culture and you know, my pride and all that with me, and I have to speak louder, and I have to be more articulate and more direct. And so back to the story, Civic Cipher was a a necessary place on the radio that we carved out to have conversations to take a break from you know, wrapping and

singing and dancing and all that sort of stuff. Um. And you know how how the story originally went. We we went to our old ideal station and he said, hey, look these folks on the streets. They got messages and the news is saying that they're rioting. But I was out there with my children. I was out there with my sons. They wrote signed we walked, you know, we you know, everything was fine. We need to help these people.

This is black culture on these airwaves, and that's black culture on the streets, and that's a facet that may not make a lot of money. But this is not the time to be a fair weather friend. You know. I didn't use those words. You know, I know how to talk to these folks. But the long and short of it is they said yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and then ultimately they said no. Specifically, they said to me, Um, ramsay is, we don't want to do a black show. And that's the wrong thing to say to the wrong

person at the wrong time. So I resigned publicly. I wrote my resignation to the City of Phoenix, who had given me my ratings for many years. Allowed me to feed my children and live what I felt was a very happy life and very comfortably. Um, And it wasn't worth that for someone to say that to me, so I resigned. Unfortunately, the city had in my back. They saw me at the protest. They my son wrote a sign. He was learning how to write at the time, so

it's chicken scratch. They put that in the newspaper. You know, city had my back and shared it, and then that grew, had some momentum, and the trades picked it up, so forth and so on. And then uh, some other programmers reached out. Um. You know, in cities like this, there's usually a couple of hip hop stations. So the other hip hop station reached out. He says, hey, I don't know what you were trying to do over there, but

will you please come and do it over here? And then then we had to come up with a name. Then we had to come up with a you know, a clock, We had to come up with a you know, a format for the show, etcetera. So Sam Excipher was born out of that, and we tell stories that long form that don't exist in cultural spaces and spaces where black culture is consumed. Um, particularly in a hip hop space. So our our show sounds like a hip hop show.

What we're talking um, and we're empowering allies and black and brown people, so they know, what's the big deal when you hear the in word? Or what is it like to be a black man walking down the street at night and there's a white woman walking forward you? How is that also scary? You know, things that they may not um be able to even conceive of. Um. We also talk about, you know, a lot of political issues, and of course we deal with police brutality uh uh,

and and social social issues across the board. We do our best an hour a week and fortunately we're on over thirty stations now and we're looking to expand that. So yeah, we're just some regular guys. We were trying to do our best. So I hope that's a sufficient answer. No, that's that's more than sufficient. You know, just get in the background and hearing you, so I kind of understand this. You know, this situation and how you guys got here with the whole trademark. I heard that it was gifted

to you, but you didn't. This wasn't something that you set out to do. There was gifted to you from someone from Arizona. Like, what was that process? What is something that you asked for? Was it something that you know they just give it? Like, what was the process of that? Yeah, So the the individual that had it, um again, reached out and explained the story to us, and it sounded the same way it sounded to you.

We're like, whoa, what is this? And of course we didn't realize it was going to be like a global thing at the time. Um, it's just sort of a weird coincidence. So, yeah, they reached out, We had some conversations. They kind of explained what it is that they wanted to see. Why they didn't feel they were in the best position to decide what the future of that mark should should look like. Um. And you know, this is a private citizen, this is an individual. Um, what do

they yeah, I mean intervitable? What exactly was their plan for what did they want to see? Um? So, initially when they filed a trademark, I can't speak to that because I wasn't, you know, involved in that process. But when they spoke to me and Q, the idea was that, um, really it was just you're in a better position to decide, you're in a better position to defend whatever decision that is. You're more connected with these issues. This is you can speak to the people. Um, you can probably do more

good with this that. This was this tone and the demeanor. Um. And when you have a radio show and you can explain your you know, vision and your thoughts and what it is that you want to do and explain why you even have the market in the first place, because nobody wakes up, not in the space that I live in, and says, you know what I want to do. I want to have White Lives Matter shirts all over the country.

You know, it's not a thing that I would ever do. So, UM, we had to like really weigh what that meant before accepting that responsibility. Unfortunately, you know, we we we reached our conclusion in short order. I think we took a It's funny we took a six mile walk. It's funny that we know how long it was, but you know, that was enough time to kind of go back and forth. And then we drove to l A. So you know, from Phoenix to l A is about you know, five

hour drives. So we had another you know, um little session in there where we kind of debated it back and forth, and um, it's funny. But the morning that we were going to go sit down with Big Boy just to talk about Civic Cipher and the growth that the show had, you know, achieved in two years, and the partnership with I Heart and the partnership with Radio PACIFICA, just to talk to him about those things. That morning, as we were leaving the hotel to drive five minutes,

we're in Burbank. If you've been to the I Heart studios out there, Um, we were. By the time we got to the parking lot of the radio station, we had the assignment from our lawyer and we're looking at it and we're like whoa. And we told Big Boy and like, yo, guess what. And he's like, oh man, we're talking about that. And then when we mentioned it and now it's translated into Korean and you know that we have to do interviews with the BBC. And when you all were debating, who was on which side of

the coin? What did the debate sound like? That's a great question. Um, so we were both on both sides of the debate. UM, and I think initially Que was not really on either side, but really raising concerns about what this could mean for us, because we live in a world as we know that, you know, folks will

not open an article, they will read a headline. Um, and that's a very dangerous place to put yourself in with your face, you know what I mean, and with your brand and your your show, especially when you're trying to do good, you're trying to help, trying to prevent harm, and so, um, that was definitely one thing that you

brought up. One of the things that I brought up and to ended up finishing thought for me was that, Um, if we don't do this, there could potentially be non black children who emanate the behavior of the gentleman in question, and where these clothes in the name of fashion as dude, as a popular dude, everything he puts out cells out.

We know this. We could end up in a world where our mother's grand mother's people, as I mentioned, like Dr Westenberg, people are very important to us, will interact with you know, white kids and you know kids who don't really know the full weight of a message like that, and how hurtful that can be, and how that can feel like regression to a person like that, and how harmful that can be when it kind of splinters a message of us really trying to affirm that our black

lives matter. UM. And so we had to weigh the responsibility with the potential consequences. UM. And we were both again on both sides of that discussion. But ultimately we we felt like if this is in our lap and this is what we've signed up for, and at the time, we were thinking it would come from white supremacists. You know, we live in Arizona. The headquarters of the ku Kutz Klan is maybe eighteen minutes from where I live. You know, Uh, this is not a place where you know, you want

to bring scared business. And we knew that when we started Civic Cipher and when we had to talk about police shootings and you know, there's police shootings that happened here then make national news as well. So you know, it's we just we had to bite it off and we had to chew it, and it just phoamed up in our mouths a little bit paused, but um, you

know here we are, UM and uh. We we think that we have done right so far by everyone, and our hope is that we continue to do as right by as many people as we possibly can, because there's no way for us to make everyone happy, and no one sets up to disappointment. I definitely appreciate that. So just listening to that, I've heard also heard that you're planning to to give it to either then Double A c P or the A d L. Like, what are

your plans for the trademark? Is this actual fact? So so yeah, that that is something that we are Um, I'll say that we're looking into it. Um, we have definitely. So here's the thing that a lot of folks don't realize. The Anti Defamation League is the entity that deemed this term a white supremacist term. As you know, the Anti Defamation League has a team of lawyers. Um, we are

radio hosts and any lawyers. Like, so far this mark has cost me money personally, right, Um, but really I have a closer relationship with then Double A c P and the A d L was just a conversation we were having in case the double A CP thing didn't quite come together. Um, that felt like our cultural museum, if you will. To me, I could put it in a box, put it in a museum, and it's purely symbolic.

It is not worth anything. It might be worth something to one person who would never sell it to even for a billion dollars, you know, and I made that very clear. But you know people love headlines, right um. Uh And and at present we're we're that particular headline that you all were willing to sell it for a billion dollars is like just what they do. Yeah, and it really misrepresents the idea of where we are and

where we're going. But I recognize that, Um, you know, for certain outlets, that's that's the business that they're in. Unfortunately for all the outlet, well at least for the one where we actually said that, where I said that, uh, they were very kind. They put the full video up, so you know, anybody that chose to click on it sees that that was just something said sort of as as are hypothetical, like maybe and you know, for for those listening to us right now, what I said was, um,

we are not interested in selling anything to anyone. That's not what we're trying to do. Who would do that? Um?

But you know when they asked the same question over and over again, it's like you kind of have to answer to give him something so you can move on to the next question, and so um when they keep pressing, I said some effectually, what I said was, um, hypothetically, if you know, in a parallel universe, somebody came with a billion dollars, um, maybe at that point we might have to weigh the good that we could do by donating that money to civil rights organs and what they

could accomplish, real change that they could accomplish in the world, um, and way that those outcomes versus the outcomes of you know, people not wearing T shirts, you know, And so that's you know, in the furthest stretches of my imagination to answer a purely hypothetical question. You know, that's what ended up coming out. But of course the headline is Kanye can buy something for a billion dollars and nobody ever said that, and that's not something that remotely interested in.

You know, we know all about those headlines, and now they get twisted around to make it yes, for for for clickbait. But why are people saying that? I mean, you know, I am at the point in my life where I don't really pay attention that much and like need deeply things on social media, but you kind of see stuff and I've been seeing somewhere. They've been saying that it's not true that you all have the trademark, or it's not real. Do you know where that came

from or what. So. One of the things that, um, it's important to know is that our trademark attorney is we we saw him out because, uh, based on our research, he's one of the most prominent trademark attorneys in the United States. Um, that's not a uh, that's not an accident. We recognized that in a lot of spaces. It's kind of like the golden rule. You know, whoever has the

gold makes the rule. So if we are going to have to hold court with someone who at the time has billions of dollars, we at least need to make sure that we've strategized, you know, um appropriately. So that's first and foremost. Um, And we obviously heed the account some of our our lawyer. But furthermore, the way trademarks work is you know, to to some folks, UM points, they're absolutely right. Um, it's it's a technical thing. Uh. So I'll make a parallel for you. Have you ever

heard of the term patent pending? Yes? Okay, So patent pending means that you've filed for a patent. Right, This is the United States Patent and Trademark Office, same same entity, same process. Right. Patent pending means that your patent application has been accepted. In order for it to be accepted, there has to be an assumption that it will be approved. In other words, it has to check all, you know, these certain boxes to meet certain criteria in order for

it to be approved. But there's a lengthy process that things go through before they finally are patented. Patent patent pending protest action afford you the same protections more or less than a full patent. In other words, it is a prohibitive sort of thing that keeps other people from moving into that space. Um. And for folks to say they don't have the trademark, um, it's like trademark pending. Right,

we have the application. Everything was accepted, It was filed by our lawyer, and you know, everything is everything is there, um.

And it's a matter of a waiting game, you know. Um. And if we if if folks want to stick around for two or three years, however long it takes for a full you know, mark to come back, you know, be my guest, um, But you know, the folks trying to pick that apart either know the law very well and are using that sort of technicality to get some views I think, or um, they don't know the law at all and they're just kind of copy pasting um. But we don't obviously heed the counsel of Instagram commenters.

We heed the Council of Morris Turik, our patent trademark attorney. And I just want to so, based on what your attorney is saying, and and and the likelihood and the normality of this process, more likely than not, unless something really strange happens, you guys will definitely be able to own the trip. Absolutely. So here's the here's the other part about that, if for some reason there was something wrong, uh, that agency it is it is they are required to

help you make it across the finish line. You know that that. Okay, you have to tighten this up. Let's change this. Okay, then not a work, Okay, let's let's run it back. So this is kind of the nature of the the US. Now. I'm not a I don't want to sound like a trademark professional, but this is what I've learned from Again, our legal council so um, worst case scenario, we might have to you know whatever, but you know, we don't anticipate that because we found it.

It's it's not a very complicated thing too. Absolutely, I know a lot of people. I think I saw Isaac is the third before he I think he may have interviewed you all, uh, and he was talking about how many trademarks he owns. There are people that take they get trademarks all the time, they hear something, they see something, and that's they're actually in the business of holding the trademarks to many different things. So it's not that difficult. But to your point, it takes time, um for everything,

for all the legal process to be done. I just want to say, and you know, I know that you have given us so so much of your time today and it's been so gracious, wonderful to listen to you.

I don't know why I have not been exposed to you in the past, but now that you've become a friend of the street politicians certainly on tend to you know, keep listening and and and get some of the awareness from whatever you all are doing on your show, because it sounds really, really, really powerful, And I don't want to take this conversation into my own political thoughts and theories.

And I understand your position on the White Lives Matter statement and what the a d L said, But I have many critiques around the A d L just from my engagement with them, and I hope that whatever decision you make, it is that it would go to an organization that literally represents our people. How dare I give an opinion after we just talked about so many people out I appreciate that. I appreciate that, UM and I didn't really get to fully flesh out the part of

the our our consideration of the Double A CP. But UM, the Double A c P is an organization that is I've worked with since I was a teenager, you know, UM, I I and and then you know people are gonna take this with that. UM, the A d L was always kind of conceived as kind of right, why not just holds it? And yeah, that I mean, that's I guess that's an option to UM. But here's the thing.

As long as this thing is in our possession, UM, we are forever married to it in a way that puts us It puts a target on our back, and UM, it leaves us exposed to folks who might want to throw rocks at the throne, if you will. Not not trying to big myself up, but you know you get the the the analogy there, Um, and that is a weight that we don't necessarily need to carry again in our estimation, it is a worthless mark. We don't anticipate anyone selling anything. It doesn't have any val you and

why not put it somewhere where it can be better protected. UM, I personally don't want to go to court, regardless of if I'll win or not. I that's who wants to go to court for any reason. You know, we've done what we needed to do. It's kind of like a someone told me this and it in it. I don't think of it in this way for myself, but I appreciate what they said. They said. It's kind of like a Robin Hood story. You know, you do this and then you pass it along and you know it's not

for me to hold onto. It doesn't serve any purpose in my life. I'm I was charged with making the decisions that would affect the most people, and I think that by keeping those shirts off the backs of as many people as possible, um And protecting the right to do that. If I can create that reality by putting it in a place that has revenue and lawyers and you know that sort of stuff, then then that makes

a little bit more sense. And so I will say that, UM, these conversations is are ongoing, UM, and it is not our our hope to hurt anyone. We are not misinformed. We do recognize how UM. You know, there's been you know, friction on all sides of you know, everything, and that's not something that we're not sensitive to. UM. Your your statement is is you're not the first person to say that to me, UM, not even the first person to

say that to me. It was close to me. UM. And you know, these are all things that we have to to weigh. I mean you can hear it in my voice like I really do. I'm trying to love everyone as best I can, and it is impossible to do that. UM. And you know it's no one asked to be in this position. But now that I'm here, now that you is here, it's like, well, you know this,

I guess it comes with it. And so UM, you know the only thing that I can promise is that we will do our best UM to to honor what our commitment to this moment and to our people is based on our truth as we know it in that moment, and hopefully, um, you know, people are able to celebrate it. So we pray for you, brother, We pray for both of you. Q Quentin in his absence, Quinton Ward Um, I don't know if I said his name in the beginning.

We pray for you. And you know what, when God's on your side, you just make the decision and walk away from it knowing that you did what was in your heart. And so we pray for you, um, and wish you nothing but peace over this matter, Peace in your heart, peace in your mind, and peace over whatever decisions you just you choose to make. And we got

your back. You know, appreciate that we got your back. Well, I'm glad that somebody got it, man, because I was just thinking about the havoc that actually could have been reaped, as in the harm that could have come to us to quote unquote harm who came to black people. So I appreciate you for doing what you're doing and and and you know, just know that you have warriors on your side, prayer warriors, front line soldiers and warriors. We were with you man, Thank you. That means a lot

to me. I appreciate that. Care take care, d be great. That's how we are Rams this job of the duo, Rams this job and Quentin Ward of Civic Cipher, they got a big This is big because you know how angry we were when we've seen that trademar and then you know the battle we were when we saw this shirt. I mean the shirt, not the trademark, the shirt exactly when we've seen the shirt and just understand it, because

you know, people don't understand why we were triggered. And I say all the time that we dealt with up for upclose and personal White lives Matter, you know what I'm saying. When we were eat Kentucky, there were a lot of people utilizing that term. Some people even had on you know, gear that said it, and they were and they were fighting back with us, surrounding us with guns. You know, as we screen Black Lives Matter, just marching

and protesting for for justice for Brianna Taylor. They were using it to intimidate us, and in times I felt like our lives were definitely in jeopardy by the people who was using their Bourbons. So you know, it was very dangerous, it was very inconsiderate, you know, and I didn't I didn't understand the marketing strategy. I didn't understand anything.

And I think that because the individual who who utilized it didn't take the time to think about the harm it was it would have cost, you know, it made it that much more dangerous and that much more disrespectful, and then didn't connect with individuals who were directly impacted by that. So I'm glad these brothers did what they do, you know, more than hopefully you know, they'll get the path, I mean, get the trademark and they'll own it and you know, and they will give it to a place

that you know it won't be able to harmony mm hmm. Yeah. I hope they get an opportunity to contain it as well. So that was, you know, a really important conversation and I'm glad we were able to have it. I'm so glad we're able to have it. But um, I know, I know we talked about um Kyrie today earlier in the show, and um, but I don't get and and it's not too to disparage anybody or anyone, but I Just what I don't get is why people don't understand

the difference between Kanye and Kyrie. Right. It's it's like the weirdest thing to me, like you know, everybody, because I've been very vote cool about my support of Kyree, just like I was about what yea quote unquote said and did that that made me uncomfortable, you know, And I don't think and I think so many people just want to put one blanket around the situation, right, or what they're both saying that, you know, be he were

saying this before. Why people don't And I'm like, you know, there are nuance, there is circumstances and their individuals, you know. I think for me, my support for Kyrie because he's been consistent, right, He's never from the beginning, He's always been a star worth in our communities. He's um supported every issue that we faced. When we were fighting for Brianna Taylor, he was one of the vocal for people

when George Floyd, he was vocal. I remember us having knowledge of even in the bubble, ky Reid said that he didn't even want to play basketball because he didn't feel that the NBA was focusing on the issues of black people, you know, and he he sacrificed then, you know, and even in every sacrifice I think that he's made thus far has been based on principles in his own

spiritual beliefs. And I don't know why somebody doesn't see the difference in when Kanye utilized his voice and it was out of emotions in his own personal value, you know what, what when he wasn't being able to gain personally. So I really just wish people stopped making the comparison to the two and and and and I hope that people can understand the difference and understand why a lot of us, if you even looking, you see every day it's more and more people coming out to support Cyry.

Shout out to Jason Williams who said something, you know, it's more and more people saying, Hey, what's happening to

the man. It's just not right. So I really don't get why people don't see the difference between someone who's emotionally charged and somebody doing something based on the spirituality and the principles and just wanted to be a better black person, a better man, I guess, a better Black person, I guess because you know, the reality of the situation more informed informed, And I think I think the short answer that I would give is or why I agree with you, is that I've never heard Kyrie and we've

already talked about this, but I've never heard Kyrie say, uh that white that the white man is the most uh marginalized or oppressed person in our society. I've never seen Kyrie kissing up to Trump and wearing a Maga hat. I've never seen or heard Kyrie do all the stuff I said earlier, just take it and repeat it again. I've not seen that, and therefore I am inclined to

support him, even though he has said. You know what, when I sat back and I thought about what happened here, I've made I want to apologize for the harm that it may have caused. So I just think people don't want to see the difference. They want them both to be the same for their personal reasons, whatever those reasons may be. And then we've just found out that there's a lot of people out here that no matter what, they're just gonna support ya, Kanye, And that's, you know,

completely fine with me. I'm like, we're the we're the whole different space in the war the ass has been said, the mental warfare um that we're up against as a people, and so you know, I have limited time or things to even say to address um anymore. The craziness that happened or the craziness that kind of started all of this. So that's my opinion, and I agree to Maka Mallory. Grandmama t grand Mama te my grand baby is coming to me right now. Well listen, man, So we'll end

this show on that note. I appreciate all of you for making this the number one podcast in the world podcast what is the podcast? Badcast? The podcast the number that's not custom me saying custom me, the podcast he got this little English accent that he talks about anyway, the number one podcast in the world. We appreciate you. If you have any suggestions, make sure you hit Street Politicians Pot on Instagram. D M mus Let us know what you love us, let us know what you want

us to talk about, give us any critiques. We open for it, man, and we're here for you, and we love the support. Thank you you. This show is growing every day and we really appreciate you. And with that said, I'm not gonna always be right to make a d Malory Mama T and grand Mama Mama Mama closed, Real Mama Tea is not gonna always be wrong. We will both always and I mean always, be authentic heads We

Got Black Mother. Listen to Street Politicians on the Black Effect Network on I Heart Radio and catch us every single Wednesday for the video version of Street Politicians or I Women Dot Tv.