Mental Health with Hill Harper and Collette Smith

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the director of this show. And um, you know, we have to make sure that we take care of our own the same way we do everyone else. So we asked that you go subscribe. Now you can listen to it on our heart, which by the way, you subscribe when you do that too, because they're gonna know who you are when you go in to sign up for a podcast. But for for I Woman dot TV, I Woman dot TV. Be clear, okay, I Woman dot TV.

You go there register and you can actually see this podcast because we've been flying to you don't want to miss these, okay, Gladden Mia. Shout out to Gladden Mia that they are Oh please they If they don't help you, help me, you would be don't you need have Gladden mea. They are life savings. They are on it every single week making sure that we look good and um that we're presentable because I wear my sweatsuits every day. So that's the pandemic. Bro, I don't know how to get dressed.

I'm not gonna lie. I do not know how to get dressed. And the last and the shoes listen. I'm not sure. I'm not sure we're going back to wearing your Lubertan Lubertan look, how do you say it? Cat Lubaton. I just don't know if I can go back to a red bottom from the car to the I can't do it. It's just I literally put my shoes on right here on the side of this chair to stand right over in the corner and take a picture. I'm I have lost my way in terms of getting dressed

for myself. And if it wasn't for Lad and Mia pushing me to get dressed up into and do stuff, I just don't know. It's very difficult to go to zoom in your living room or your kitchen or wherever area in your house, in your most fabulous fashions. Yes, a lot. You know, his pandemic has done a lot to our minds, and that's why today's episode is like primarily built around mental health. You know, it's it's mentally training.

You know, especially in New York, there's no indoor dyning, there's no club, there's no recreation pretty much with the exception of the gym, is where I go get a lot of my energy. You know, I've been able to utilize working out his energy. But a lot of people are just locked in the house. They're scared. You know, the numbers are spiking, people are dying, people are getting infected at higher rates. So it's it's a lot, man, We're dealing with so much mental health in these times.

So your shoes, you know it's understandable. My ones, my Jordan ones, my tens, and like a few other kind bad boot situations. That's what I wear when I get dressed. I love a day when nobody talks to me and I don't have to do anything that that's very very very rare. But I don't I don't understand why we have to be on the zoom camera all day long. I don't like you, and I just think you just don't want to do nothing, Like you can't go to

the place. Right before, we had to fly and we had to do speaking engagements and we had to go to colleges. We had to do this, and we had to be on seven hour flights for all. And remember how we used to have to go to like North Carolina and Ohio on other places in the wintertime and we would get snowed in and be driving on ice and night and slide and I mean, you gotta have something, something gotta happen, Like you just ain't gonna sit home and just do nothing. But you wear your slippers to

your zoom. Yeah, so that's what I'm trying to tell you, mad at the zoom when you can slippers. If he didn't even heard it, But you gotta stay on the stage, right I did, But my red bottoms, Remember, it was like my ankle from one of the marches that we did. My ankle was messed up, and I stood on the stage and said to everyone. I was like, listen, guys, my leg is messed up and it hurts a lot. But y'all wasn't gonna get me out here without my

shoes on. So I'm standing here in pain with this good good the brand new red bottom which, by the way, y'all don't understand this, but you need to know that the new ones. Oh listen, listen. It's a difficult process. However, I'm gonna be cute when they opened back up. Don't worry. I'm gonna be cute. I'm gonna Jordan's and you ladin me and worked well with you, and they also worked

they hook us up. But the mental health component of it is so it's so real what you said, because sometimes I do get up and say, damn, like you don't even know, Like I don't even know what it is to have certain types of gatherings and meet ups with people, and thank God in our situation or I don't know, not thank God, because the work we do is so traumatizing and the and the situations that we have to work on, but we at least get to

move around more than other people. There are people who are working from home, their kids are at home all day, their uh spouses are there. And you know, I'm a firm believer that people need space from each other home people in their home. Kids don't need to see their parents all the time. You know, people need space, and to have everybody locked in it has to be causing trauma a serious it's traumatic. It's traumatic as hell that

you can't see other people and go places. And I do miss my girlfriends and us going out and having a drink. I miss my favorite restaurants. I missed going to Sylvia's and Harlem regularly. That's my liberal that's my kitchen, and Sylvia's and Harlem is literally my kitchen and it's where.

You know, Sylvia's history is so rich because as Sylvia's everybody has been through there, every celebrity, every um, every politician, and it's almost it's almost like us a therapy session when you go in and get to be around family and other black people who are striving for greatness and to not have that, it's really it's hard. It's a lot. It's a lot for men. You know, we usually have our meet ups. You know, it's rough for us. You know, we usually we go sports bars, you know, watch the games,

watch the super Bowl. You couldn't even go watch Like those are big days that men just congregate all in one big place, and you can't even do that right now. So you know, I understand. You know, clubs, we used to go to the club every now and then just have a good time, just unleash. It's just like now you're just taking liquor back to your own you're frustrate the fact, you know, and you're arguing with your spouse or somebody in the house because you they tired, you drunk,

You frustrated because you can't go out. You're sharing this. It's just a lot of trauma. And that's why this mental health thing is something that I've come to realize that's serious because I didn't even identify with it before. Mental health, like somebody like you got issues and I'm like you're bugging, like I'm perfect, Like you're crazy my mind, I'm one of I'm a genius. Like what do you there could be nothing wrong with me mentally, like are

you crazy? Like you're talking about me? Like me? And then I started to pull back laders and just identify with certain things and saying one, so damn. Maybe that is a little different. Maybe these things do come from things that have happened. Maybe I am triggered. Maybe I am dealing with trauma from childhood. Maybe I am dealing with trauma from prison. Maybe I am dealing with just different traumas. You know, because I identify with certain ways that I think and things that I do. It's not

really the norm. The average person doesn't do it, but I've normalized it, you know. So you know I'm getting better. I don't have a therapist yet, but I'm moving towards it, you know, I'm moving towards the rapists. Name is Linda's. Our sword is definitely her, and Omar Prankle and your best friend and your partner at Until Freedom and other

co founder. Those are your therapists that you talk to because you and I it don't work because we are not arguing because we don't agree, but because I just don't agree with you about a whole bunch of ways that you think. I just think it's worth thinking, and Linda will say no, because we both have trauma. Right, So we're bringing our trauma to a conversation. Lend this trauma, Tiz,

and I don't. I think lendas trauma is different, right, Yeah, Well, if lendas trauma is not very exactly because your trauma comes from Black experiences, black men, black women. My trauma comes from Black experiences. So when we come from different perspective of that experience and we have a conversation, that trauma shows up. Oh yeah, because I'm trauma sized when

I'm trying to reason with your craziness. But I think from Lender's perspective it is true because she will say to me, like, wow, black people's the way you all think, in the way that you live is very different, you know. And she knows that. But she also is a very good person to talk to. So we do have people around. We have sound boards, yeah, we have sounds. We have

sound boards, and and it makes us think. So, you know, I'm always thinking, and I have like sixteen thousand, million, one hundred and seventy five thoughts of the days today, I just want I'm struggling. You can't figure out one thing that's one thought out. Then you are dealing with mental health. You have to unpack. And I really, you know, I'm struggling with picking the one that is most significant because I want to talk about relationships, I to talk

about stuff. I just want to talk about a bunch of stuff. But I think you know, in a few weeks ago, my son terik Um time on five we did Alive together that I had no idea how many people like he's a he's a he's brilliant, he's brilliant, he's a master marketer, very you know, similar to you in a lot of ways in terms of how he thinks. Because he kept saying, Mom, you know, the rest of

your life is in the world. We might as well talk about our stuff, right, And he's like, I'm telling you, mom, people my friends, you know, they have the same problems with their parents that I have with you. And the reason why this came up is because his album was being released. He loves music, he does music, he is an artist. And I listened to two words of one song and said, I can't put this on my social media.

There's no way I can support this. I can't do nothing with this, Like and it's not even bad music. It's music that I do listen to on you know, on the side, and some of it I can actually I can promote when I'm listening to other people, when I'm you know, when Cardi and Meg is dropping and they're talking about that, why that's not my son, that's not my child. So but when it's him again, that's scrutiny. You know that people we don't like to talk about,

but it's real. I'll be I'll be feeling away. And so I was trying to figure out, Tarik, what do I do to support you with your music, knowing that the things you're saying, in the ways in which you frame your thoughts, it's just outside of what I think people can deal with. They can't even deal with me talking about Kim Kardashian on on my page. There it's a meltdown on my page that's been going on for the last few weeks about me saying one thing about

Kim Kardashian. They'd be like, I can't believe this. They can't deal with me posting myself in a bathing okay, a bikini, they can't deal with certain just a lot of things that I do so, imagine me posting some of his music, which is his real, true or authentic thoughts. Okay, I don't know what to do, and I guess my the thing I'm trying to figure out is how do you balance, especially supporting your young black man as a mom who has a platform, with the fact that I

can't control what he does. Well, I think, I think for me, right, because I had this conversation with my son right because he's into music like all of them arest and and he's dope, you know. And I think when he first started, right, I explained to him, you know, I can't tell you who you are. You know, I've given you, you know, direction, I've giving you wisdom, I've told you certain things. I'm not here to live your life or tell you what to say and what not

to say. But I also have who I am. Right, So when the music or the content of the music that you make goes disaccording to what it is that I represent, I'm not not going to support you. But I can't. I can't knowingly and will willingly promote something that goes against what it is that I represent. You know, So understand that it's not that I don't want to support you. But if I'm out here telling everybody else's kids, you'll listen, we gotta work, we gotta work on unity

and this and that. And you're talking about shooting them up and how much dope you're gonna sell. They don't. But that's what I'm saying. What I'm saying is if that's what you your content is, because I remember when I was young. But really, what I'm just trying to say, if your content is just that's just you know, an example. You know, I remember when I was young. I was my song Lefty Gun in the right pom popping niggas and they sleep so they dot com. You know, I know,

I under there. There's an evolution. So while you evolving, you have to do that. You have to get to that process, you know. And when you get to a process, were you able to you know the fact that I understand music and I understand what you're going through. I'm gonna give you pointers on how you know what everybody's saying that. You know, everybody's talking about how much lean and how much perks they popping, how much money they got,

how much are they all talking about that? If you want to win, talk about exactly who you are I mean, right, because it's it's more authentic than saying, you know what this is where everybody is going along with not saying that you're just making them stories. What I'm saying that you're utilizing aspect of something that you may have experienced, what you've seen, Like we saw those things, so we

lived through that too. Because my son will say to me, because sometimes I listen to his music and I just be like something we all go. He'll tell me, you don't know what's going on and everything and to be remembering like word, that did happen, or you were there, or you your friend did get killed, and you know and and and you did have beef with these people. And I was hoping that the situation wouldn't go the

wrong way so I could kind of see it. But it's like really, and he's like, myn you you don't really understand my fault, like who I am and the fullness and what I say is not your fullness. It's not your fullness. But he's on love songs now, so he must be. You know, my son is a and and not saw this too. Your son is also because he loves his girl and you know they've been together since I've known y'all, or at least you know some a lot of the years since I've known you guys,

and that's been a while. But my son is a lover of one. That's who he is. I never understood that. I would be, like, why do you want to be in a relationship with one person so early in your life? You seventeen? But if you sit there and think about yourself or I think about me, you know, That's how I was when I was young. I had one relationship for six years, the first first girlfriend throughout my whole

high school. After I got out of high school, for like six and a half years, like this was the only girls with because that was just how it is like when you when men, and I think, what happens in those situations, it shapes who you are, Right if that situation turns out good and you and that girl stay together and it's not nothing that but if that girl breaks your heart, it turns you into somebody else, right,

So it's not Yeah, but it didn't for him. I don't know exactly, but every time he does the same thing in terms of getting back in the relationship with one girl, and I appreciate the fact that he's not out here slinging and dinging, like I get it. I appreciate it, but I do feel like it makes him more vulnerable to heartbreak and and and just you know, all the challenges and things that he's been throughing relationships.

But I see he's now on his live or on his page with his his bottle that he must have been drinking some kind of tequila and he's using that as a prop and he's telling the bottle all these great things. But because you know, he's he's a comedian, he's a comedian. He's far very funny. So he's telling the bottle all these things about what he would do

for her if, you know, they get together. And then he wrote some stuff about how he's looking for the right woman, and so I guess, you know, it's a good thing that he's looking for He you know, he lives in a state or in a city in Atlanta that is dangerous to just be running wild, like you gotta be real careful because unfortunately HIV is a real

serious problem there. And so I guess I don't mind that he's trying to settle down, but sometimes he and not just talked too, totally different languages, totally different and I want to be supportive of him. It's not that

if he was. I don't have a daughter, so I can't mean I have I have a young woman who I raised and she is like a daughter to me, and that cheyenne um, but you know, she doesn't live in my household all the time, So I don't have a daughter that I'm I'm responsible for the way I am my son, and I know how hard this world is two boys, and so it just makes me want to support him, but I already know that I have

to be careful with how I approached supporting him. Now he'll turn around and say, okay, yeah, but whop your favorite song on the radio. I'm just trying to understand, so he so he'll point out that he sees hypocrisy there, But to be clear, I ain't. I might post that I don't see what y'all. You know, I may my defense, but I don't put the words of that. And it's not to take any stabs with these kids. But why

is who Cardi b is? Right, That's been her full steps since she's came to You know, existence you understood that Cardi B was a stripper who came from bottom in the bronx who this was her normal life. Every day she was in the strip clubs, she was having fights, she was shaking up. This is what she This is

who she was, you understand. So people look at that and say, yo, this is Cardi B. So when she talks about it, you immediately identify with it because there's a connection of authenticity I think for us looking at our children, right and understanding what we've been through and understand that we've actually given them a better path than we've had, right, So when they talk as if they're talking to us, you know, like they're like they've been through what we do, it's like it's hard to identify

with it. Maybe someone else do what we've been through. Well I don't know, but you know what these kids be doing stuff we don't know about that. But the thing about it, even not know about it, I think for me is did you ever have to write? That's the thing. They get themselves in stuff that they should not be in, and then their experiences become hardships that

it should not be. And that's my problem. So I think now I know my therapy session with you was gonna be okay today because that is actually the heart of the issue for me. It's like, yeah, I know that y'all got shot at in the park, but why but why did you go to the park over there that I told you don't be over there? And even the old heads over there, what y'all called the o G said, you don't live over here, don't come over here, and you just want to you just want to try

it up. So now you've been shot at, you put yourself in the studio, you mad at people, and now you want to you're mad. It's like you're living through one side of your experiences. And that brings me to what the streets is talking about. The stres talking about, and the streets is talking about pretty much the same thing. I was. You know, my boy Wild put you know, he put a post up the other day and it

was so real to me. He said, why are these rappers right waiting to get rich, waiting to get out of the hood, to have beef and do the dumb ship shooting at each other? And when we was coming up right when I was wrapping, my whole thing was I want to get out of the hood, you know, I want to make a better way. You know, I don't want to be in the streets dealing and dealing with all of these things. I wanted to be as

far away from problems as possible. So these young boys twenty nineteen eighteen to actually get opportunities to change their family's lives, to change the trajectory of their lineage, you know, to create generational wealthy millionaires at teenagers. And they're still doing street ship. That's gonna detrimental, be detrimental to your life and your survival and your freedom. Like the street I just don't understand what is the obsession, what is

the you know, the connection? Where why are y'all so eager to stay in the streets when you don't you've escape poverty, Like I really just don't understand the mindset that comes with that, because if you're from a place like Harlem, you just can't let it go, let what is it whatever? And it comes with a lot of things, because it's like when you go to the hood, you're

gonna be there for a short period of time. You might hang out, but you could be there for a short period time because you already know somebody get drunk, something happened there's a fight that breaks out somehow or another, you might find yourself trying to break it up the wrong person say something and they could just spire out of control. Best place to stay in your house, It really is because because when you move around in the world, things happen all the time. And I think that people

like to go. They want to flost, They want to take back to the hood what they were able to accomplish and you know what they've been able to obtain, and when they returned with that energy, people don't like it. But it's like, why return with the energy because they don't. Just because you got money don't mean you got saying, like I just keep watching these young boys. Every other week one of them is getting killed older. They shot at this one, they robbed this one. It's like and

and now you're facing real time. They're not facing like you know, oh it's a misdemeanor. This is you know, just a minding fraction. They are really jeopardized in their lives after they've already got out the hood, Like what's the fascination with leader ship alone? Like you you you're

able to change your family's life. Man, You're you, You're able to make your family proud, to make your mother, get your mother out there the community and change for the beat, or actually even come back to the community and make changes in the community. How are you contributing to negativity in the community that you actually was able to rise above and and and you know, and succeed despite all of the pitfalls, Like you're supposed to come back as an example, You're supposed to come back giving

these young boys opportunities. They're not supposed to see you as an opera anything. You're supposed say, y'all, you know I'm coming back. We're gonna build community centers, We're gonna get jobs. I want to make sure everybody that's from here have opportunities. How are y'all still contributing to the dumb ship like you're giving people more credit than what

because they don't. Because just like I said, just because you have money does not mean you have sense, and it damn shure don't mean that you've actually and that damn sure doesn't mean that you have dealt with your own internal traumas, your mental health issues. It doesn't mean that right like there people are struggling with their Oh it's wants to go out into the world and get in trouble for stuff that they tried to run away from.

Who wants to do that? Only somebody who's dealing with a severe mental illness that comes from the trauma of growing up in certain communities, and they self sabotage, right, That's that's that's the only you know. And and when you self sabotage that is that means that you're dealing with some mental health issues like people think mental health.

And that's why I'm so glad that the mental health community of experts are working so hard to help people normalize that these things are real and that a lot of people are dealing with. Looking at Charlemagne, I mean, Charlemagne spend so much of his time trying to promote people getting help. And it's important because in the past, it was like you had to be a looning person, or at least that was the language that was used.

You was loony. You know, you you was looking a certain way or acting a certain way, and that was what was considered to be crazy. So you didn't want to necessarily go get help because getting help meant that you were crazy. We're now learning that mental health shows

up in anxiety. It shows up in how you eat, It shows up in the amount of sex that you have sometimes, or the people you choose to have sex with, or the people you stay in relationships with no in that they're not doing you right, or the people you choose to you know, be around that you know don't have your best interests at heart. That's a mental illness,

and it's something. And so when you try to ask questions like, well, why would they because they didn't learn anything different and they still haven't addressed whatever is going on on the inside, looking for validation in the wrong places. It's just it's just very sad man because every day, you know, you're rooting for one of these young boys. You're like, yes, oh, I've seen I remember when he

was just starting. And then you next thing, you so you've seen him, and they're on billboard shots and they

seem to be doing well. They flashing money and they got all these big chains and and then next thing you know, they got a murder charge yeah, or they got shot, or they in be for they wanted for questioning, or they caught up in some level of indictment, and it's just like it's just it hurts you know, And I just want to say, man, I know we're dealing with mental health, so I have to say that, but I also have the same man, you know, we just got to make better decisions. Also, just you know, some

ship is just dumb. Some sh is like you could. We've watched the same tapes now we we keep watching every the same way. Somebody is dying, they're going back, agetting to be for somebody that ain't got nothing, that's mad at over there. They're shooting you beef and you're going back you wouldn't prove your ego and this and that and I'm gonna shoot you and I'm doing this and just continuing the same cycle. Like we have to break that cycle. We have to break the mentality. We

have to just do something different. What's the movie with Sharif? Yes, Society? Society? Man, we watch Society all the time in the house and um in Atlanta, and you know it's the same. I mean here, this young man was was what was his name? The character the main the main character on Kane. Kane could have got out, but he couldn't get out. They couldn't get out. And that's how it usually happens. Man. We have to change that narrative. Yeah, we have to

do something different. We just gotta do better. I'm praying for these young boys many too. And we have a guest. Who's our guest today. We have a friend and actor and author, a brother um, a historian in his own right, and that is Hill Harper. We're so happy to happen. How are y'all doing? It's it's so good to be on. I appreciate you. I appreciate the wisdom that both of you bring to our community. So thank you. It's great to be here with you. And and uh and I'm

happy and excited to chop it up with you. I left out activists. It's been a rough, rough, rough time. It's been. It's been a rough forever, but the last four years now, you know, we're headed towards the fifth year of struggle, and just people feeling really really stressed out. And to have the last year be pain full with the COVID nineteen virus has a lot of people feeling

really really stressed. I was having a conversation the other day with my father, and my father is caring for my mother who had a stroke recently, and she and they are home because they have to be because my mother is paralyzed. She's getting better, but she's paralyzed on her left side, slightly paralyzed. And then UH and then also COVID. And as I was talking to him, it occurred to me that going outside and being around people actually was helping them to stay as young and fly

as they have been. And to see that we now are in a time where people are locked in their homes, where Black men are locked in their homes with their thoughts and the struggles and what I haven't been able to accomplish, and the world is beating me down. This is a challenging moment for us and I and I wonder what you're what is what do you feel about that? But also what do you encourage Gene our brothers to

do in this moment? Oh? Wow? You know that the trauma is real, you know, and it's real for all of us, and it hits us in many different ways, you know. And I I come to this this subject UH in a very personal way because you know, many of you out there wouldn't wouldn't know this, but my father was a psychiatrist who worked in the UH, in

the prison system, dealing with UH. Trauma and recently and he had a program UM that was all about a conditional release program, getting offenders or so called offenders out early um and and participate in this program so that they could have re entry and dealing with mental health and trauma. And you know, he he passed away at the beginning of two thousand one, and so he was doing so much good work and and he he passed way too early. But I think about the mental health

of black men is something that we never discuss. It's something that's stigmatized. It's stigmatized from when you're very young, people say, just get up to you tough, you're tough, you got this, come on. And it's also stigmatized from

the standpoint of even the black church system. It's like no, no, no, don't go to therapy, you know, come come, just pray it out, pray it out and charge right and um and and so so many men, black men, so many of us are living inside our own heads and feel like that we can actually communicate it even to each other, because we'll be seeing as soft, we'll be seen as as as as as not so called strong black men. And it eats you up from the inside and so

we have to have these discussions. We have to say it's okay to cry, It's okay to feel, It's okay to open your heart and and and and feel the pain. It's okay to feel fear. We never talk about fear. Right, It's okay to be afraid as a black man, knowing that the world is trying to come at you. I'm

wearing this Trayvon Martin hoodie. Uh. You know it's Black History Month, is birthdays in this month and uh, and we can talk about the trajectory of time from Trayvon to now and the numbers of black men that have been killed, whether by police or by or by so called civilians um and proud boys or whatever you want to call the moniker. But the idea that these people can get away with this makes you feel subconsciously that you're not You're not worthy or worth. There's so many

things that play that you mentioned. And so we have to be there for each other. Doctor King said, we're all tied together in a single garment of mutual destiny. We have to be there to support each other, and particularly black men and black women coming together. Oh man, that that touches on so much for me, you know, I was about to comment on that trade Von sweat of and understanding the trauma that Trayvon situation caused me.

You know, I remember being in Florida when they were reading, you know, the what they were the trial for Zmon what's happening and they were reading the verdict, and when he was founding out guilty, I down and cry and I'm I'm person that you know, I've been taught that you don't deal with emotions, you don't get up, you know, being incarcerated, you don't cry, you don't do all these things. And identifying with the fact that black men hold so much of our pain inside, like we've been taught to

hold that pain inside. And I remember crying for Trayvon like I probably never cried right throughout my whole life. I probably remember crying like that once or twice in my life. So that just goes to what I what I want to ask, like, what what do you think that we should do? This is stigmatized, you know, especially men from marginalized communities from the hood. We've been taught you can't cry, you can't show emotions, we don't even identify with anything being mental health right, we we we've

normalized abnormalities in our community. What do you how do you think we should go about those of us who are are able to identify those things? How do you think we get to those brothers who don't know how to identify who running from it, who utilized violence or all these things as a coping mechanism. What should we do? That's that you know, that's a great question. And I'll answer that question through through through a story. Um. I do a lot of work in in prisons. I do

a lot of work in juvenile detention facilities. And I went into one one time and people would ask me all the time, Man Hill, you know you know your your your your your mom was an antissiologist, your dad was a psychiatrist. You ain't from the hood hood, you know, how can you can't relate? You can't relate to these bangers.

You can't relate to this, you know. So what you're doing in these prisons talking these banking and what they don't get and this is real, real, what they don't get is these young cats, they don't care where you grew up. They care if you're authentic when you look him in the eye, Like for me, I look him in the eye and I say, I love you. They either feel that that's true or that's not true. They don't say, oh, what's your zip code or what was your families net worth? You know, it's it's it's it's

whether you love them or not. And and the story I'll tell you is that somebody who who ran the this ward said tipped me off about this one brother. He said that you're gonna do Usually I do these group sessions, and he said, there's one cat in there, you know, just just just you know, you know, leave alone, you know, trust me, leave him alone. I was like, you know whatever. So I'm talking and I see him and I knew who he was talking about, and uh,

I told him. I said, hey, hey, uh, you know, before this is over, because he was giving me all sorts of you know, you know eyes and all that, and I said, I said, before this is over, I'm a you. We're gonna hug m something. I'm gonna hug you, nigga, ain't fuck you. I said, no, I'm gonna give you a hug for real. I'm gonna give you a hug. Nigga. If you touched me, I'll kill you. You know what sucking touch me? Nobody touches me in here. Fuck you

what you know, it's it's all of that situation. So you know, we're doing the whole session, the whole thing. I started talk talking to him and just see the layers slowly a little bit start to come down, just I mean, just incrementally, just like And so that's the point. We as black men have built up these defense mechanisms that are layers upon layers upon layers that have been necessary armor for us to get through this world, no matter who you are, where you're from, to get through

this situation, we put armor on. But what we have to do to answer your question is give each other grace and a safe space to put the armor down and say, Okay, that armor served you at this situation, in this part of your life. But we're in a different situation here in this room right now, in a different part of your life. So I'm what, how can I make space for you? How can I make grace for you to put that armor down, even if it's

for two minutes? And he and I got there, and I came over to him right at the end that I said, Man, you know, sessions about over I'm about to leave, but you know I love you, right, And he didn't say anything like no comebacks. And I said, and I looked at myself, I love you. And I hugged him. And at first he was stiff, and then I felt him exhale, like and I get emotional telling the story right now. And he told me, dang, I the story. I know. I didn't even intend I was

gonna tell the story. So you can see how stuff sneaks up on you. Um. He exhaled, and he said, then no adult man had ever told him I love you in his life. Wow mm hmm. And and and that's it, man, it's you know, it's it's about love, and it's about grace. It's about space, and it's about granting each other the ability to be vulnerable. That's it. We have to give each other safe space to be vulnerable. And if that's one on one, if that's in a group setting, if that's out in the woods, if that's

in a room, safe space to be vulnerable. It's so interesting that you're saying that because we are one of these shows. We were talking about my father. My father is the perfect, imperfect person. He's perfect. I mean, he really is. Everybody loves him. He's standing man. And the reason why I say, he has his own imperfectionists and these are things that he calls out right and not me because I don't see it. He's perfect to me.

But he said to me one day, um, I love you, and he said, I know, I don't say it often, but I do. I really love you. And I started to think, my dad, I know my dad loves me like I couldn't. I didn't understand. And then I begin to reflect on the years that he never was the guy who said I love you, I love you, I love you all the time. That was more of my mother and even even my dad. He grew up in the house with a father, his brothers, his mother, whatever.

Still there is something that is taught, like he didn't have the situation where he didn't there was no other man in the household or you know, he grew up in in in in a in a bad situation and still saying I love you was not normal. M M. I wasn't normalized. And it's it's it's it's tough because then as a black woman, you wonder, how can a man, a black man show you the type of love that you need if you all are not even able to

express it amongst yourselves or to yourself. Yeah, when I went, I took a trip to Kenya and I was over there, went up to Uh with with the Messiah and did a whole thing. Rule is this area called Lake Turkana, which is like northern Kenya, and as the Massai tribe that was gonna be our guides. So we're out there getting guided by them, and these brothers at night, these tall brothers with the red on, they would hold each other's hand. And that's the first time I've ever seen that.

And I said, what is it? You know, because they stand out there, it's almost like they're standing guard straight up like an arrow, looking out over the horizon, holding hands. And the guy explaining to me said, that's that's that's ritual, you know, that's that's the ritual that we established where before the men, young men go out to unmarried men would go out to Uh do their hunting, and that before they go out to do that work, they hold hands.

And that was powerful to me, and I said, damn, you know, we need to bring at least metaphorically that

idea act to us. How can we metaphorically hold each other's hands and then not be okay, right, Yeah, that's that's a man, you know, as just listening to you, right and understanding you know, societal norms, just definitely for black men being incarcerated, you know, having my father died when I was twelve years old from overdose, being a man of my household, and just never wanting to exhibit any level of emotion, right and and and never thinking

anything was wrong with that, Like it just it's just coming down to me that the fact that I was number from emotion, that every time I thought about exhibiting emotion, I equated it with weakness, right, It's something that I just start identified. Right, Like I find myself having to stop from telling my sons not to exhibit any level of emotion, right, Like they want to hug each other, and I want to be like, I shouldn't be hugging each other. Boys just don't hug each other. These are

two they love each other. This is brother and mentally identified with something that it shouldn't be going on. And I have to stop myself from saying, no, that it's normal. That's he's showing his brother love. He loves his brother Why Why have I equated it with some level of weakness? Why am I? Why have I been taught something like that? How do we get away from that? What is the process? How do we break down these norms that have kept

us from being emotional? Because I I find I have problems just in life relationships, friendships, people like I don't know what you think, and I don't know if you're emotional. I don't know what you is. My wife is like, oh, you don't show emotions. We go through these things all the time, like what what what advice would you give somebody who wants who wants to see that, who wants to be, who wants to have that connection, who wants

to you know, break away from that? I think there's a couple a couple of things that you that we

have to make habit. And the one thing that that it's so interesting about all these studies show, Uh, there's a bunch of books out there about this called the power of habit and blah blah blah, is that habit is actually more important than intention and so you could have all the willpower the intentions like I'm gonna make sure that I am vulnerable and I'm gonna be open and I'm you know, it's just like it's like working out. I'm gonna make sure I work out every day. And

it's and it's really not that they say. It's not about the intention. It's about actually creating a space for the habit to exist. And once you start doing something twenty one days in a row and then you get to sixty days, you get you know, you actually have a habit. So a couple of things. One having someone to talk to about how you feel, your feelings and emotions.

Therapy therapy, therapy, therapy works. It's the best investment in yourself you can make UM and and oftentimes many of our communities people say, well I can't afford that, blah blah blah. Heard they're expensive. There's so many social workers out, so many therapists, so many occupational therapists, so many programs in so many places that have UM therapy for or

extremely low cost, in many cases free. Uh. It's just about doing a little bit of research and maybe you have to travel a little bit to get there, but it's worth it. Right now, it's actually happening virtually, so you don't even have to go anywhere to to to do it. That's number one. Number two is figuring out what works for you habit wise in terms of your own making space for yourself. What do I mean by that?

Meditation and taking time every day even if it's I'm talking three minutes, just set a time or on your phone and just sit and try to clear and trying to feel your heart. I went to a retreat one time. His name was brew Joy and he talked about he's passed away and he talked about her heart shock fra. And you don't hear brothers talking about chokras much, right, but it's like we can learn about that stuff, right.

And he taught He said, your heart Chokra exists in four different areas, Compassion in a harmony, healing presence, and unconditional love. And he said, you don't have to be a master meditator. Just keep thinking compassion in a harmony, healing presence, unconditional love and repeat those over and over. And he says, you start, you start building that muscle. That heart starts to open, it just starts to happen,

and just make it habit. It's not like and so, and don't beat yourself up if you miss a day but the idea is just start doing these habits that start to open and you can also pull people in your life. This is a really powerful thing that I use. And sometimes the answers that come back aren't that great because we don't see things that other people often see.

And we asked someone to write you a letter or an email saying, what are the things that you see me exhibiting that maybe self sabotage behavior, and the people may point some things out and usually they'll do it very gently. But the issue with that is when someone asked that question and you answer it, most of the time that the responses I don't really care what anybody thinks. I'm you know, I'm doing what I gotta do for me. So it's like we also have to break that down

that we actually believe our own stuff. We believe our own kool aid, if you will. And it's so many layers to fear that's fear based because it means you have to change and do something different people to do that. No, we definitely don't. We get wedded to just being who and how we are, and you know, but we're all works in progress. And that's not when I keep saying that we're grace. We just got to give ourselves grace. It's okay. It's okay that you actually do that with

my son. For instance, So my son's five years old and you're just talking about being a parent to your to your sons. My son, he acts up bad, oh bad, And and I keep I don't want to be my father. Who who At the end of the day, when you're talking about beating boys, you gotta ask what. We gotta ask what. We asked what. But that is a slave tactic. Black. Let's be very clear. That is a slave holdover. And we literally took that slave holdover and incorporated into our life.

Master said the way you make these and stay in line is to beat them, And we somehow got that over five d years. Uh indoctrinated in us and said, oh, the way you make your boys stay in line is to beat them at every turn. And I remember me, I used to had I had a technique. I tightened up my butt cheeks make sure it didn't hurt his band face. I got weapons all the time. And I noticed I see myself, like you said, there's a part of me that keeps wanting. You know, I'm gonna give

you a spanking. I'm gonna give you no, no, no, no stop. That that should even that option should be off the table, because if I can't actually figure out a different way to parent, then I'm not doing my work as a parent. I should be able to find discipline techniques that do not involve beating my child. I appreciate it, but I'm gonna speak a little as No, you don't, that's not true. But I don't even speak to me. I don't even speak my kids. I'm just choking.

But sometimes do you really think they do. I'll grab my son's hand and be like, look, you might get a little speaking, but I think we do have to change to squeeze. I do this. There's a little a little squeeze. Yeah, but you know what I I hear you slave mentality. I get the whole thing, But I appreciate some of them whippers I got because I was off at more than a hand. The hand wasn't enough for me. I needed the rod dne of what. Just because you turned out great doesn't mean it was because

of the whoppers. Yeah, well, the trauma is still there. It definitely is. And then you have to go back and try to repair the child, and it's it's a hard process. Listen, I wish we could do this and talk to you. I never got a chance. I never got a chance to ask him how you balance family life and you know, being on the road all the time, and like what that causes, because it's hard for us, you know, with our families, it creates just challenges. And so having a young boy at home, I know it's

difficult for you. Maybe you could quickly answer that as we go out. The one thing I leaned back on his technology. I you know, I couldn't imagine, you know, I've had he's five, so I've only had for five years. So so I've had the ability to face time with him. I couldn't imagine before that when you couldn't actually see your child when you're on the road or say good morning to them in their face, you know. So so

technology has offered a blessing. But but I'll tell you this pandemic has been a blessing because I was on the road a decent amount and it eliminated all of that. And it's made me realize that, uh, you know, I probably I'm gonna moving forward say no to a lot of things that take me on the road because this

time is so critical. And you know, and as much as being on the road and being with folks and being doing the work and the activism work on the ground, and you know, I gotta I gotta make sure I'm here for him as well. And uh and and in our relationship has blossom in a different way now he's acting up more so maybe when I'm on the road, maybe it's better actually, but but that's the whole different thing him. But what was the movie? Because I told

I think we had this conversation. It was a basketball movie that you was in. My friend was like on the opposite team, and I was in the extends. I think we I forgot what college you went to. It was somewhere like Upstate, New York, and you was in the movie. I forgot the name of the movie. You're not talking about He Got Game, because that's the one that's the biggest basketball that's the biggest one. But I

did a maller basketball movie. It ended up being called I think it ended up being called Across the Line. Because you know what's funny about this story. That was Tad Diggs's first movie. He played my older brother, and you know, and I had to teach him how to hit the mark and to do all this. He had just started doing rent on Broadway and and uh and that was his first that was his first film. And yeah,

it was called Across the Line. Yeah, the producer who paid for most of the movie, he decided to hire his son as the as the lead. And um, that was my friend. Ray had got like an extra roll. He was good in basketball. So we all played basketball. So he's like, Yo, we're gonna take the bus. We're gonna all go up to and see if you can get a role. So I remember I was watching y'all play the hotel. I was trying to get in the movie,

but they wouldn't live us. And I just remembered you out of everybody that was you know what else is in that shout was there too? Exactly? There ye was in that movie. And yeah, man, it was Jamal Joseph brother, Jamal Joseph directed that film. Shout out to Jamal, appreciate you. We gotta do this again man for us. I'll come. I'll definitely come back, come back. How about this. I'll come back around the centennial of the Black Wall Street massacre.

So so so late May, we'll come back and talk about that love, that love that thank you so much, so we'll see you appreciate you. Well, you know another person who would have a little bit of history was not only was it anything, but no, I'm just saying, even though he's our friend, they had when we look at the thing, it isn't the movie that I was talking about, wasn't even in the credits. This was actually his first because when we look at when you when

you read just listen to him. Yeah, because I don't understand calm down. Listen, we have our sheet. Why do men always say women have to calm down? I'm not excited. I'm just not clear what you're saying. So let me talk. If you let me say that's when I say calm that means let me say what I'm saying and then you can actually get my point. Okay. So the movie

that I brought up across the lines. When we have our fact sheet about Hill Harper, it says his first movie was he Got Game's Blackly, which means I know a movie that he was entire to that. So I know a little something I just brought up. Some these are things what you're trying to say is that our production team didn't know, but they couldn't have really known because it was you heard. It was an underlying fact. It was things that didn't happen, but I was there.

That's the bottom president. So the whole point is that my son was there with Hill Harper during at least t Dig's first movie. Look, you don't even know. Look the history. You see the history. Look I've been around here, man, I tell people all the time. Doesn't matter where. We have traveled across the entire world doing our work. Everywhere we go people are like my son, my son, my son. In fact, there's some places outside the country I think,

I don't know, Like whatever we have to do. Whatever it was, it was like something for the gathering of justice in London, and there were people just crazy about my son. I know your music, you know, it's diverse, the type of people who know you. It's not just black people, it's not just young people, it's not just people from your our generation. It's generally just a large group of people who are really really inspired by your work.

So you okay, But still the reason why they didn't choose you, I thought I forgot because the reason why you didn't get chosen for that movie is because you're a basketball scrub. Your son not san plays better than you. That's forgetting me. But I was never a scrub. The reason why I didn't get an opportunity they didn't have any more auditions. See, my friend just said, come on, come on, you play ball, and if you just get on the court and they can see how good you play,

they're probably put you in the movie. But it didn't happen. He's like, yo, it's no more spots. We're gonna keep you in mind for the next movie. All that, it never really happened. But I was there, and Hill was a dopezing amazing. He's so amazing. He almost a cry like I was. I was sitting here. He was my third pitch woman. You see that. I didn't even realize

my own session. Yeah, I had my own session. I like, I was like, it's like, it's like as a mother, I don't think I know that as a man, you have your own feelings and experiences and challenges and things that you deal with. But it is really hard being the mother of a black son. It's really really hard. It's probably I'm sure it is. It's hard to be

a black son. And I think about your mom, Patricia, you know, and having multiple black sons, and I see her like, you know, still, like she in there with y'all, like ya, that's that's a And my mom she's in there with her son. She want to know what's going

on with her grown son and her grandchildren. And it's just it's a it's it takes a certain type of skill, and it also takes as Black women, we have to deal with our trauma because oftentimes we place on young men the stuff that or on men in general, the things that we either have been lacking or our fears. And that's why I love me some Will Smith. I love me some Will Smith because he often says that the responsibility to take care of your own mental space

and to make you happy, it's first. And then the rest of the world has a responsibility to do right by you. But you are the first person that has a responsibility to deal with and take care of you.

And at the point that people around you don't benefit that process, then you have to eliminate them, no matter how bad it hurts, no matter how because you can't allow you to be abused, and and and hurt by others, and then you go and transfer that hurt and pain onto your kids, and especially not to say we will you know, we're talking about young girls, but our men. It's it's it's real. It's real, and I see a lot of us. I've done it talking to our sons.

I heard you say during the interview that you were the man of the house as a young as a young boy, and maybe you perform certain roles, but you weren't a man. But yet that's how you felt. And often we put that on our sons because often, unfortunately in our communities, the sons are the only males there, right, so you look to them for that to start you of that male energy. You want them to be that man. You know you put you you you love them like there man. You you want to raise them into be

what you believe to be a man. So you you you speaking into existence like anything else. You're saying, I'm gonna win. You know, they say you have to manifest destiny, right, So if you're speaking to a son and calling the man, you're hoping that it grows in. But sometimes it has an adverse effect to where there's too much you know, responsibility and too much energy placed on that child that he can't even fulfill. But but, but, but but before I just I do say, though, then we gotta figure

out what is it? Is it that we're loving on our sons too much as mothers or are we putting too much pressure on them? Are we doing both? Like? What exactly is it? And is that causing the toxic masculinity issues that we talk about? Well, I mean, because we have said that there's toxicity on all sides, like we all deal with toxicity. But are we as mothers also causing that because in some ways we are loving up and being hard on or being I don't know,

or forcing an adulthood in young men. And the balance is not it's not healthy, you know, for a child to grow in the right ways. Our communities also don't offer opportunity for kids to grow up and just be kids. But that's a whole different conversation. So you can introduce your guests. If you like my like you about you got a lot. There's a lot, you know, I think you might need a little therapist, will listen. You don't have to tell them, don't think I have one. I

haven't listen. I'm just trying to say, there's a lot, there's a lot to unpack there. What we're going to do. I don't have my therapist. I have my wine, but that's probably not the right The Lord of Mercy help us, Jesus Christ. Before we go to the next segment and have our special guests joint, we're going to take a

quick break for our sponsors. Listen, We're gonna go into our change maker section where we have an incredible woman, incredible, incredible, her energy just speaking to her for two minutes, you see her energy is just enormous. You know, she is a beautiful woman, she is driven, and she from New York City. Queen she I mean, we you know, she from Queens, even though I'm from the Bronx with Queens come from Queens, so we gotta respect that. But this

is Mscolette Smith. She is the first black woman, but she is the first black woman to be the coach of the New York Jets, to be one of the coaches. She's the first black woman to be a coach within the NFL period, but the first woman to be a coach of the New York Jets. And get it right, get it right. Thank you for joining the screen. I'm like,

I'm like Jamica, Jamaica was dead on all right. I'm like, you know what, And here we go once again with why we got to separate what's right and what's wrong. Women get it right. Men just do whatever they do. Look, look that boom. When Jamika talked, she was like, let's get it right. She's the first black woman to coach

in history, and she happens to be the first female. Okay, well listen as to listen to me as a black man, Austin corrected, Jamika was a hundred percent correct, and Queen, we do not want to take away your history, your history when you are the first black woman to coach in the NFL ever in the history of the NFL. There are so so you know what as our over Madam Vice President Kamala Harris and the Madam Vice President.

M v P. For me, as a woman of football, m v P normally means the most valuable player, but now m v P has a different definition to me. I'm getting goose bumps. Now. It was not most valuable players. It is Madame Vice President, as she would say, the first, but not the last. There are others after me and I love them, I support them, I expect them, A

cheer for them. Yes there are. Why don't I don't watch football, so I'm about to say something that's like a little disingenuous, but I do turn it on a flip by it, or you know, my family members watch it. Why don't I see more of you all on the news and you know, uh speaking about the games and running up and you know, I don't. I don't see a focus on the women because I didn't even know women were really coaches. I knew there were very a

very few, which the probably still are. But when I say very few, I'm thinking maybe one tops, and you're saying they're multiple, There are multiple. I can only tell you my experience, my experience when I became the first NFL's black female coach, by way, by way of being the first black the first female coach in New York judge franchise history, I was muffled. They didn't want to bring any attention to me. They were trying to be just doing whatever they do. We're muffled because I don't

believe I believe a guilty conscience, a guilty conscious. It's so raw that they're like you know what, if we start parading this, it's gonna it's gonna take away or amplify what is really wrong that we're doing. There's so much wrong that the NFL does. And mind you, I'm a football girl. I love the NFL, I love sports, I love football, but there's so much that they're not doing right. So I was silenced by the way. I'll tell you this. I was told by marketing and PR people, Hey,

you're not really in anybody here. You're new here. We don't we don't uh do marketing campaigns or press conferences for new people. You're new. And I was like, okay, I'll take that, but it was beyond being new. I was the only woman you ever had the coach in franchise history. So the other teams, in my opinion, that other teams they let the female coaches have more interviews and they applauded. They brought that in with me and the New York Jets. Now we're talking. Let me get

you know what, anybody paying my checks with me? So I don't owe anybody anything. I'll say this just to be real. I got no glory, no nothing with the New York Jets. I didn't everything I did was on my own, my own assertion relationships. Did they do you think you said the other teams gave their women opportunity to women that worked for the team's opportunity to speak? And do you think it was because you were black?

You were a black women? Were there white women? Was it has to do with race or did it have to do with sex? What do you think was the main factor that you weren't speaking? Um? I think for several reasons. One of them is that I was the only black woman. The other girls and look the other writer girl, and they were all white. They got those interviews with ESPN and it felt films, Uh, they got

all of it. I didn't get any of those. I would have to think as a black woman that sees what goes on and what go down with black people in America for centuries, that it had to do something with me being a black girl. Yeah, that's so my answers. Yes, how do you become an NFL play and you didn't play, I mean coach and you didn't play. I actually was a women's pro football player. But but I will say this, there are some NFL coaches that have never played that

are top tier coaches. There are, there are, there are, there are several. So now let's take that and multiplied by by racism, by genderism, by classism. And here I heard, and I heard a whole lot. Oh she never played, and she never And I'm like, so you're gonna tell me I never played, so I don't deserve to be an NFL coach? Me. Well, there are other men, white men that have never played, that are top tier coaches.

So come on, I've been We have been dealing with lynching and black people for years, in all different forms, whether it be from a tree, whether it be from a newspaper article, whether it be from our not having good schools. Please tell somebody telling me something different, because I know what Tom it is. You've been through a lot of personal things as well. Um, you know, I'd love to hear from you your story because you know, there's the professional side, but then there's always the other

side that we don't get to talk about enough. That while we're climbing the ladder and we're smiling and looking good and walking in the room, because I have seen you and you do that, you walk in the room looking good, but on the inside, there's other things going on UM and and this actually this episode and what we're talking about is mental health. And so a couple with the idea that you were fighting being muffled, you were also dealing with personal challenges. Talk a little bit

about what we have experienced. So, UM, I am, I personally am a five time raped survivor. Um, since then, I've been a three time suicide survivor. Right, So when when when when a woman or a man or a boy gets raped? You know, I have family, I'm a black girl. My family is from the South, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Grandma would tell me, old child, stop, leave it alone.

So now you don't know what to do because your insights tell you respect your elders, but your heart and your spirit says something's not right, Like why aren't why ain't y'all standing up to support me? So I've never had that truth for it. So for me, every step I take, every thought I have is to empower black youth, black girls and women to know that, yeah, your thoughts

are credible, your thoughts are worthy. So for me, uh, there's a there's a lot that goes on in a person's mind where I can I can just simply say that God gave me the vehicle was to believe in myself. I would you know what, I'm gonna say this to me because for years I would pray to God and I would saying, God, please one day make me important, give me a platform. And I was praying that prayer as if I wasn't important. And this is what the world brings to black people, as if we're not worthy.

We have to be like, yes, massa, Okay, that's a. And if it's massa, lets us do something. We should be grateful. I fought with that as a child, knowing that something's not something right. I always felt that way. So now you figure years later God gave me football, and the moment he gave me football, I was like, wait, wait a minute, what women in football? Pro football? I wanted to play football in my whole life, but I was told because I'm a girl, I'm not allowed to

play the same way I might think. Because I'm black, I can't ride the bus because I'm black, I'm not allowed to read a book. Because I'm black, I can't vote. So all this was bigger and greater and more than than me as a woman playing football. It's bigger than football, and God knew. God knows I am a servant, and not only in my his servant, I am a servant warrior because he knows. Put me out there. Let's go

game on. I'm a fighting I'm gonna fight for you to believe in yourself, for your children to believe that they're worthy. And guess what, at the same time, that's fighting for me, for all of my hardships, for all of my suicide attempts. I'm I can say I'm I'm a three time suicide survivor, but there were probably more attempts that could have happened. It didn't. So we we faced a lot of issues, and I think there are issues and you know what, I'm gonna put the blame.

I'll do that. I'm gonna put the blame on somebody else because somebody should have been protecting me. Somebody should have been telling me I'm worthy. I didn't have that. So it is mine innate duty to know what I know and start my own company called Believing You Incorporated through my platforms of me being the first black woman to coach with NFL history and the first female to

coach in New York. J franchise history to use those platforms to empower kids that are underserved and marginalized community. So what let's go. Well, I just want to say as a black man that I'm I'm sad that you had to go through with you And if I was you know, if I could have done anything to help,

I wish I was dead. You know, just you know a lot of times you hear that, you hear these things and just hearing your pain and just understand, as a black man, is our duty to protect you and you know we failed in that aspect so many times, and hearing your pain just just it kind of just breaks my heart. But just seeing that you were able to, you know, to persevere past that and overcome and not

only overcome, but to thrive somewhat. They have a place to come through when they feel like you felt, when you felt like you were worthy, Like now you created a space in a place for these young black people to come to and say, oh, you know what, I am worthy. You know, so I just want to see you are not just me. You are And you know what, I don't feel any hardship for other black men. As a single black woman, I deal with a whole lot of bullshit. I don't need to from black men. I

will say this, your pain is not mine. I can we can talk through it. But for me, from pain to power, it is how I live. Right, So when I visit schools and I and I visit schools and black neighborhoods, I mean, most most children are sad. Most children will only believe that they will Both of our black kids will only believe that figure to be the same way that mama or their daddy is in the same project. And for me, I'm like, no, you can

do more, you can do more. So when I tell them I am you, I am you, and you are me and I've done when I've done, I'm the first black woman to say it again. If you are me, that's right now. You can't do Oh but but it's okay, I mean, don't. I don't think we should beat ourselves up about mistakes because this space is a space where mistakes that get corrected are good. We can do that, right. There's so much that black folks have, so much that

we possess that could heal another. You know, if we just had the time to sit and delve into our pains, our traumas, the things we've been through. There are people who will sit here and say, how can you get raped five times? Like what happened for a second and third time? Because we're so ignorant. Sometimes there are people to say, well, why did you try to kill yourself three times? And what's you know? But at the end of the day, first of all, some of us are

drinking ourselves and drugging ourselves. We're trying to commit suicide right now and just not acknowledging that that's what it is. But beyond that, you have such a powerful story and what you can do to transform the lives of young black women. When we work, yes and men, just makes a man want to step up and just be better. So definitely. But you know, the work that we do, we go into communities where our people are really really damaged,

really damage. There's different levels to this thing. You can go to some communities and work with people and they have a little bit of means and people clean up around their community, you know, and they and they have a little bit of um, you know, camaraderie if you will. But we go into communities and work with people who are really broken, who really don't have I mean, they live in situations that some of us we couldn't survive period in those situations, and those are the types of

people who need to hear your story. So I'm just encouraging you. I know it still hurts you. You You've done the healing. I'm Jamaica. I'm cool. I'm cool. So for me, I am in those communities that need me the most, I am. I have principles that will call me and say, we need you here. I need my children to hear your pain, your struggles, your tragedies to your triumphs. Keep doing that and I will not stop you just as to me. And there's so many of us who say, Lord, you know if you would give

me a platform, I will. I will tell your stories. I will do your work and um and you're doing it. Collect We appreciate you, we love and support you, and you know I want to see you. I gotta figure out something else we could do together, because we need to say, let me know whatever I could do. I really just appreciate your transparency and your perseverance man, and your passion. So you know I'm inspired. I'm motivated by you. Continue to be great and just walk in your purpose

because you definitely doing that. First woman to coach in the NFL history and the first woman to be a coach at the New York Jets. Man, we love you, collect love you, love you right back. Let's go game on, Game on. Thanks g. Let take care you love you, love you. That was so great. You just don't even you know, sometimes you we we do interviews and good interviews and you smile, you laugh, you have a good time.

But you know that that interview pushed me to somewhere else, you know, pushed me to understand that when you're living in your purpose, you know, no matter what you're going through, you know, let's looking at her and the energy that she has, you know, the transparency like she's willing to cry, she's willing to fight, she's willing to do all the things necessary to win. Man, So I was motivated by the interview. Man, I think us for even having the ability,

thus say, I like to think myself. Yea, Man, I think us for having the ability right and doing whatever we've done to be able to connect with people like that. Right when we talk about That's what I'm saying, Like, you know, we sometimes I'm not a person, you know, we're not we don't have egos anything, but we actually do. I mean, we don't have big egos that overshadow the world, right, but we we identify our worth, We identify that we

actually out here doing work. But when you look and see that we're able to connect with and you know, share space with so many you know, beautiful people, so many just powerful people and we have those are these are just friendship, These are just connections that we made. So you know, I want to thank us for that. We thank us, thank us, I want to thank us. But they say a little ego it's necessary in order for you to be great. So we are definitely a little a little lot. Listen to me. I know, I

know what I could do. I just know what I can do that you're very confident. I don't know. You gotta ego, but you're confident. But when I say I could do something because I could do it, I don't know. You know what is there a difference between being having ego and being egotistical? I mean we all have an ego, it's just sing how big it is, how you use it to How about that? About that? One thing we don't do is use our anything to hurt other people,

and I think that's what matters. Some people would say they don't agree with that, but you know, so as we talk about egos and we talk about the work we've done and how you know, we should acknowledge we've done some dope ship, we've done some good ship. That's my new slogan. That's my new slogan. It is just a regular chick who's done some historic ship. Like that's because I have to find a way to like get people to understand who I am. They're struggling with it. Well,

you know what it is. I think that brings me till I don't get it to you. Don't get it, you know, because it's about you. You know, I want because it's specifically about you, right, who's done some historic ship, who constantly every time it's called on the front line, she does things that surpassed the last thing she's done. It's so and time being celebrated, you know, like they'll call you and say, we want to give you this award. To me, I don't want no awards like Tamika, you

need to do this. I don't. We need to promote this. I don't want to promote. Don't put me at this speaking. I don't want to do let somebody else do it. Like we literally have to force you into receiving accolades and taking space that you actually earned. And I just don't get what is the issue with You're doing the work like and you do it selflessly. It's not and I'm not saying that you you should um do the work or do things to be celebrated, but you do

the work, and you deserve to be celebrated. You've earned these awards, you've earned these accolades, You've earned spaces in certain places. So I just don't get why. Yeah, you know, I just don't get why you are so anti receiving these accolades. You really no, I mean, I hit, but I want you to explain it. That's I don't do a retake. And no, I really just don't get it. I just don't get it. Like you just boomed a C A C P. It's nominated you, right, We're like, oh,

this is dope. You need to and you're like, no, no, don't for Image Awards. She's like, no, I don't want to post that. Don't putting that. Enough about me? All we need to create it. You know, our manager toys like we need to create a campaign, we need to be doing these things. I don't know. I don't want to do this. You know, people have to pull teeth for you to even want to promote it or say anything about it. I said a whole thing. No, you're saying,

you're asking a question of why. And it was in my statement about how grateful I am for the award, for the nomination, which is an award in itself, right, So when I didn't know, I didn't understand until recently, like the Double A CP Image Awards. If you're nominated, that's a big thing because that means that somewhere along the line, people narrow down the choices of all the people in the world that or in the country that they could choose, and they narrowed it down to five

important people. And I'm in a category that is really really like hot, like it's it's powerful. I'm in a category with Debbie Allen, Like how the hell do I get in the category with Debbie Allen? Like, as far as I'm Concernedie Allen changed black women and the way we see ourselves, Like she's so amazing. I'm in the category with Lebron James that's amazing. Um. Of course you know, uh, April Ryan, who I love and that Maya so much.

And then of course Stacy Abrams, which in my judgment, Stacy Abrams is gonna win, like she's gonna get the award.

I probably would vote for her myself if I was even with me on the slate, I would still vote for Stacy Abrams right now, just understanding everything that she has done to get people in Georgia to the polls and her contribution not just then, but running for governor, stepping out there, not being afraid and not being bitter from the fact that they stole the election from her, to to go home and say she's done with it, but to keep coming back, and not to just come

back and keep running for different offices, but instead to create something that actually makes real change and has a real impact, Um, you know on our people, and so I I, UM, I appreciate all of them. But the first time I did write it, and what I said was that, you know, being that I have, I've been

through a lot of this before. Not the Image Awards, even though we were acknowledged that the Image Awards a few years back for the work that Justice League was doing Carmen, and Jamal was up there, Bryant Reven Jamal Bryant Um and others. So we have been especially the work that we have been doing in Flint, Michigan. Um we were acknowledged for that during the Image Rewards several

years ago. But being nominated by myself and acknowledged outside of it being a threesome with Carmen and Linda or the Women's March or something like that, that's that's that's feels good and it's important, of course it is. But I've been on the cover of Glamor magazine. I've been honored by every single organization you could think of, and particularly fit particularly major like historic women's organizations, organizations that people like Glorias Steinhum are founders of and sit on

the board. I mean, I've seen all of this, but I also have felt the brunt of how you can be exalted on one side and then torn down on

the other. And so sometimes it just feels more comfortable to stay under the radar, because once people begin to see you receiving your well deserved credit, the haters come like they have never ever been on you be for and the problem and I and and to be honest, since we're talking about mental health today, it is I'm still dealing with the trauma of what I experienced when

I was under a major, major attack. And I think the thing that impacted me the most wasn't even the attack, because people around me, they told me and showed me and reminded me of what I already know. That most leaders black leaders have experienced the exact same attack that I went exactly the same, not even a little, exactly the same, right, And and some of them have been killed.

So at least I'm still here because Dr King was thirty nine, and so I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm surpassing him in age, right and I'm not saying anything like Dr King because see, they'll come after me for that. But who is the We can do a whole episod. But but I have I've seen this, right, and I know how it feels, and the trauma that I experience, what I went through, I don't know if I have

been able to get over it. And then the worst part of it is watching people who you served, people you stood for and with, people you worked for and with and and and and really um supported and and dedicated so much of your life to turn their backs on you and to have other people stand up more for you, to don't even know you, and to be there for you than those who you actually thought loved

and cared for you despite whatever may have happened. Wherever you, guys may have you know, wherever you might fall out as we say, to see that happen, it's extremely painful. Now as far as I'm concerned, I'm at the point of bump those people like I. I'm beyond that, but I know what that feels like, and I hate I don't even want to put people close to me in a position to have to learn that they so full of ship like some of the people that I have learned that about in my past. So it's just a

lot of trauma. It's a lot of trauma. Is something that me and my therapist, we are deep into it. My therapist is specifically trying to address how I, you know, how I have to be able to let go. That was our last conversation. It was about letting go of the past because the past is hindering me from experiencing the now, Like I don't even get a chance to feel good about a moment because I am living in this, you know, feeling of like when are they gonna come?

And I already know, I already know that somebody somewhere is waiting on the opportunity as soon as they can grab onto something to try to destroy me. Now what I also know, and this is what's sustains mean. This is why I do get to the point where I post the thing and I say the stuff, and I finally be like, I don't care, and let me put my cue outfit on and go take a picture and post it and I don't care if you like it or it's not, and yes, hey this can hate, I

don't care. But when I get to that point is when I sit down and recognize how how good God has been to me, and how throughout every situation, even in the worst worst of times, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. And how many people, how new friends, new supporters, people who were always there but you weren't necessarily paying attention to them, How they show up and they show out and they stand for you, and that no matter what people are saying about you,

the real ones get it. The real ones get that we're not perfect. We make mistakes. We do things that people may not understand. The real ones get that. You know, it's not gonna always look shiny, but it's still is a process that you go through that I feel like I don't have to go through it. If you just don't give me nothing, I'm good. And I think I think for me right and understand that, and I hear it.

And I think when we talk about what Hill was talking about right about this armor that we were, I think I've been in those situations right. I've been incarcerated

for crimes I didn't commit. At a peak time in my life, my career, I was just signed a record deal, the hottest person in the world, had all these producers, all these artists that was calling me, yo, we want to do this, and that When you was locked up, people want to connect themselves to you because it gave them some level of you know, um credibility and oh

that's my man. And then when you actually come home and people don't feel like they benefit you or they can benefit from you, and you're not as hot, They've turn it back on you. People have blackballed you and and done certain things. And I think the fact that I was able to go through prison and utilize the shell that I had right and say to myself, I don't need these people like That's how I persevered, like

I've been, like I was. I heard my man Gilly and Um Wilow talking about how many lives he had. He said, I had about four or five lives. They thought I was dead four or five times, right in fact. And I continue because I believed in me more than anything. When you was telling me I was trashed, I was the worst person I was. Dad, don't rap again, don't do this. I never believe that, right. I always believe that I was better than with somebody else. I didn't

believe I was right. So when I see you going through this and something like yo, you have the opportunity to not only to um prove that they say is wrong, but continue to move in your greatness. And it's because you've been authentic, right, So receive your accoladi. No not you, but you. You receive them. But the people who know you'd be like, oh, they know that it's it's pulling

teeth for you to be able to do things. I'd be like posted you you know, and you worried so much about how you received a lot, right, even though you moved. Listen to me, But you are mis characterizing what it is is. It's not that I'm worried about it. It's that, despite what some people would think, I have always been a very humble person. Right, And I don't know if you can call yourself humble. But I even I know that I'm I know I'm fly right. I

know that it's no doubt in my mind. I'm clear that I have all the things that make up a great woman. I know that because even my imperfections make me who I am. I know that you know what I understand, this is the truth. I know. I will also whoop somebody's ass. So I realized that I can't be getting into too many back and forth with some of these people that be bothering me about life to tell you, I have to let them, let them, let

them just talk, and let me be quiet. The problem is you don't have to be quiet to let them just talk, right, Because I say, you say, Midy, you need to sit and say that I'm but I'm definitely gonna say that, and you're like, I don't even understand you, and I don't want to have I want somebody I don't know. The bottom line is, I'm so comfortable who I am and what I believe that what you think of what I believe has no bearing. Like somebody told me,

your opinion of me is your business. So that's what you got to realize what somebody feels about what you you're acting what God has given to you. Ain't nobody can take it from you to go out there and get it. Hallelujah, hallelujah that the church, the doors of the church are open. And on that note, I appreciate the world acknowledging the things that we've done. And when I received an award or I received some acknowledgment, I received it on behalf of so many people who helped

to make up to me a Mallory story. A man, we're about to get them T shirts. What is it again, I'm just a regular chick who's done some histories T shirts. Until freedom coming soon, listention, But you are until freedom business work. We need to talk to our director Cat Trigg because that's not how uh business work. Now using my life. But but you until freedom is you using your life anyway? Listen, Man, I ain't gonna always be right. Tamika might be a lot of times wrong more than

she's right, but she's still a good person. But you know one thing, we both are always going to be authentic. Always that. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll see you next week. Street Street politicians number one, number one, we number one, number one, number one in the world. Put in the world more. We gotta get up there and beat the others. We keep working peace,