Life After Incarceration

my hardcover book, State of Emergency. You know I keep it in my background all the time. Version of SKI right now, this I love this, this um version. For people who are listening, you gotta check it out. May third, which is today, the paperback version of my book drops, and it's a dope cover. We've all, you guys have deliberated back and forth on both covers, so I have to give you all a little credit for helping me

to choose the best ones. Um. And you know, for folks who haven't read State of Emergency, I could tell you that. And it's not so much because it's my book, Because you know, I'm super critical of myself and I'm one of those crazy people that will say it's not the best and I need to do better and whatever. But the book is actually very good. A lot of

people have read the book. Um, A lot of people have reached out to me, even some of the folks who are sort of my adversaries, people who were like, oh, she's writing a book. Why you know, all of the all of the negativity. Uh, they've read it and they came back to me saying, Wow. I had a guy asked me the other day whether or not my book

is a it's more about um career based organizing. So I assume, you know he because he was calling me state sponsored and I'm paid for by the Democrats and you know, all the whole all the talking points and so um. You know. So he said, is the book? I engaged him and he's until he wrote back to me and said, is it about is it a career based model for organizing or is it mass based like organizing?

And so I was like, well, I wouldn't be the best person to write like a career based book if it's about like how to do it for money, how to do it for how to organize? Um, you know, for for your yeah, like for your financial benefit, because until the last maybe four years of my life, maybe three years of my life, you know, people, I was hardly making it in terms of this work. I had

all my consulting work. Of course, I've had my speaking engaged rent, but in terms of UM, you know, the organizing work, so much of my personal money was going into my work. UM. And I have for many years been someone who was an organizer because this is my passion, UM and you know, and I continue to do that today. Like you know, if if for whatever reason, I didn't have a paycheck coming in from UM, my organization, our organization, I would still be doing this work because it's what

I believe in. And I'm not saying that they're not people out there that should not have or find ways to make money. UM. You know, while being an organizer, I don't I in no way agree that people should be out in communities working and you know, out here trying to change the world and being broke. I don't agree with that. But um you know. So as I was having that conversation, I'm like, so, for me, state of emergency is not about career based or even mass

based organizing. It's really about individual people looking at yourself and figuring out how can you check your biases, check the way in which you show up in spaces, and then how can you be a better um uh, not

ally but an accomplice in this movement. It is really about examining a lot from the perspective of what we've been through, but also some real tangible things that folks can do to shift the way in which they participate in the work and to make it more real, like to get into a real organizing stance and a fighting stance with those people who are marginalizing people who are out here fighting for justice. And so, you know, state of emergency. It's my baby, right And I really worked

hard through a lot, and we lived in Louisville. We were protesting every day, um, you know, and I would have to go back and sit and really work to put this book together. And so I hope that folks will go and support me. You all supported me um with the the the hardcover like crazy, crazy, crazy, I

couldn't believe it. Schools purchasing, you know, hundreds of books, students everywhere, and because it was a pandemic, most of what we did was virtual in terms of all of our book events, but we also got to get out in the streets. So that's its state of emergency. Check it out. It's not on the New York Times best seller list for people who have asked, and it was because they said they didn't know about it. And they also said that you know, oh, you know, they didn't

they didn't know about it. And we sold more books, um, in the first couple of weeks, in the time period that the New York Times best Seller look bestsellers list is determined, we sold more books than several of the other individuals who made the lists, And so we know that somebody made a political decision that they did not want to. Um look at my book listen, man, you was the people's best seller. You know, I already told you these lists that they they you know, pretty much

create to try to give status. They don't. They don't actually exist in our world. So for the people, everybody that I heard and seen was like that book is fire. I don't even be liking to read people books. And I thought it was fire. So listen, I don't say that that you don't like to read people. Don't listen, man, movest these people I'm not interested in I'm gonna keep it real. They don't interest me enough. I don't want to read their books, and sometimes I do their very

few books. Shut up. I actually read Charlott Man's book. I thought it was dope. The first one I didn't read. The second one is a few people. You was into goals book this book, like you know what I'm saying, that's there's certain people that intrigued me. And then actually when you read it, you know, you're like, wow, this

is this is something to read. So your book was amazing, not only because you know, you had a little segment with me and there, but it was amazing because it was just amazing, you know, And I look forward to the paperback. We gotta get on this road though, Man, the pandemic is over. You gotta get on the road. Hit this, get this book tour going, Like don't you want to see to make a matory on the book tour?

Hitting your going to your school. I like Zoom. I like I love people, Man, go out there and love the people. They love you. You You gotta go out there and give them some hugs. Man, Come on, I love Zoom. I could say right here in my house and so but no, that that doesn't that doesn't work. It doesn't work. So I'm ready, you know, to get on back outside. But actually I'm in the process of writing my second book, which is about my life, and it's some real interesting

stuff that's gonna be in there. But enough about my book, Let's talk about some of what's happening across this country, because we have to make sure that, um, you know, we let the people know about the progress and I'm saying quote end quote um of this administration and what they have been doing, because there's so much that, you know, we need to sort of monitory some good because people act like this whole administration is terrible, is the worst I mean they have. It depends on who you ask.

It depends on who you ask, um, Because well, one of the things is that last week President Biden pardon three people and he did seventy five sentence commutations. Tell me what is the difference? Tell the people, like, what's the difference between the two. Well, a pardon is when you just restored all of your rights back, when your your conviction and everything is overturned. It's like you never

had any conviction. A commutation is when a lighten the sentence that you know, and they might release you, or they cut the sentence in half, but you're still are all given that you know the crime that you did. But they just they they've modified the sentence in Okay, yeah, I think, okay, I get that. That's right. So the pardon is it's gone completely. So was like, um, what's our sister's name? Was she pardon? Um? She was? She was on the show not long ago, Oh Lord, Topeka

Topeka saying was she pardoned or was she? I don't know. I have to look into the case. I don't know exactly. I think she probably, I think there was actually um, I think she was probably commentated. I don't know if she was part of I think she had a compla. I'm gonna look it up. I'm gonna or maybe somebody in our production office can look it up and tell us whether or not she was pardon or her sentence was commuted. But anyway, one of the people who was

he was pardon. He was the first black Secret Service agent. UH In nineteen sixty four, he was accused of attempting to sell a copy of a secret Service file. He says that he was um, he was targeted for exposing racism. Now I didn't get a chance to read to see what was in the file, but I'm going to assume for the purpose of this conversation that, um, that it had something to do with uh, you know, he that it had something to do with that the file had

something to do with why he was being targeted. I don't know, so we won't say for sure. But nonetheless, he was accused of trying to sell a copy of a Secret Service file. He says that he was exposing racism and that he was exposing unprofessional behavior. Um. And his name is Abraham Bolden, and he was his sentence was pardoned. So it's nineteen sixty four two. Now, you know, I have to do some more research to see where is this man? You know, is he is? He's still alive.

You know, he was like, what the hell has happened to him? But again, he was the first black Secret Service agent. There were two other people pardon who had non violent drug offenses, and then there was the seventy sentence commutations, which I'm sure a variety of different individuals. Now, there is a woman on Twitter. I have to look up her name thereon she was parting by Trump. Okay, so Topeka was pardon. So there is a woman named

Rachel Barkow. I don't know exactly what she does, but she is a white woman who looks like she might be um, like maybe a reporter or something. We should check that out. But she says it's better. She tweeted, it's better late than never. Though this is such low hanging clemency fruit, it's practically on the ground. Most of these people were already be released by Bill Barr under the Cares Act. All Cares Act folks are easy clemency grants. So I'm a little worried. We're just seeing a subset.

So you know, we have to do some digging to understand because you know, there's so many smoking mirrors, and you know, I don't know for sure, but I'm sure all of these people, regardless of whether this is a continuation of other work or whatever it may be, I'm sure these people appreciate the fact that they have been um in some way, their their situation has been addressed exactly. The bottom line is, you know what it is, There's

there's no administration that's gonna be perfect. And not saying that this administration is anywhere near perfect or anythingwhere near what I think it should be. And I'm not saying that is I'm just saying that people will always critique.

People are always gonna you're not doing enough, well, okay this, And because like before, when people was telling me about the um the bill to make um hanging uh um, what would they said up like, yeah, you know to everybody, nobody's they still haven't done it, and they still haven't done it. And then when they did it, it it was like, oh, so what that means? And it's just like, yeah, I was saying they did do it. Now they do that, and you're still trying to figure out what it means.

It's like, that's what you said wasn't done. So it's like for me, you know, I'm gonna be I'm gonna continue to be, you know, critical of every administration. I'm continue to fight because America has never given black people would have deserved. No administration that has ever been in America has given black people what they deserve. Totally. I'm going to continue to fight, but I'm going to celebrate

when they are things that we should celebrate. I'm gonna acknowledge that things are going in a manner that are progressive. When they're going in man as that are progressive, and when they're not, we're gonna call him out and we're gonna make, you know, them make adjustments and force them to do what we need to be done. You know,

it's just it's it's really hard. It's really hard as just individuals who actually care because you know, you you hear all the back and forth and you get all the nay say back and forth and you did this and you said this, and it's like, listen, you have to make decisions that benefit you. You have to look at what it is in your community, what it is in your life that's being affected by this government, and make sure that you have a say in that, you know,

And that's what we did. We we we say, hey, this is what's affecting us, this is what we think are the threats to our people. This is the things that we think need to change for our people. And we focused on that, and we decided to make sure that one president who we know didn't focus on that was gonna stay in office. So that's where we're at right now. Well, yeah, so so when you talk about

things that need to be uplifted. I won't necessarily say celebrated, because until there's actual change, we don't get to celebrate. But something that should be uplifted is that the Department of Justice, UM has found that Parchment Prison, the Mississippi State Penitentiary, has violated the constitution. And the reason why, first of all, that's just important, yeah, right. But the reason why that's important, UM is a number of things. First of all, it shows the the the full scale

of our work. Right. So, the local community had already for years been out there demanding that the Parchment Prison be addressed. They want to shut down completely, which it should be shut down. But in addition, UM, you know, some of the other things is to look at the prison and to address, um, the major concerns. There were people complaining of starvation. We saw with our own eyes

based upon the incarcerated individuals. Uh. They were able to get footage from cell phones which was contraband that they got into the jails, and they were able to show the mold, the rats, the holes, um and the terrible the inhumane living conditions within the jail. So they were able to show that they were able to give us, UM,

you know, some real evidence to work with. We found out about it because you, and and and I and others were being tagged, and I mean they, the the incarcerated folks, did their thing in terms of getting out the information to make sure that we had everything that we need um so that no one could say that

there was nothing happened in that Parchment prison. But the worst of it was that with all the inhumane living conditions, people were dying every single day, So there were actual literal deaths, and that if there was there was gang wars happening. It was like the asylum, like there was no control. Everything was going crazy. People had lost them, they were losing their minds and men living in the conditions. It was nasty. Everything you could think of. It was

terrible inside the jail. So for the Department of Justice to say it violates the Constitution, that should be to the third fourth fifteenth power because it was a disaster. So with that being said, we we went and started to get involved and try to help the local folks there to do their organized and shout out to um Rakia Lamamba, who we worked very closely with in the Mississippi Prison Reform Coalition. A whole bunch of incredible people, Dan Yell, Miss Sharon, so many people that's doing work

there continuously. Then Rock Nation they also got involved, so we worked with the local folks. We worked with Block Nation to follow a lawsuit in which we went in and helped to not went into the jail, but we used our resources to get a number of the incarcerated folks to become a part of the UM the lawsuit, the class action lawsuit, and then they sent lawyers in. They helped us to put billboards up UM to bring

awareness to the local community. They helped us to get letters that cost money to be published in newspapers and all of that, and you know everything. J took, calls with the governor. Everybody put their pressure in their own way. We along with the local folks, organized a big rally and the end result of it is that the Department of Justice could not deny the work. They could not deny.

So when people say protesting doesn't mean anything, protesting plus legislation, and well, protesting us UM plus legal work together is what will ultimately impact the legislative process. So now they're saying the Department of Justice is saying that they've sent something to the local government and it's up to them

to make the changes. But if not, they will um you know, they will take legal matters to take a take a legal action to force a monitor there and to make sure that the changes happened in the jail. And that's a full scale explanation of everything that took place in all the steps exactly. You know, we we have to apply pressure. I tell people all the time. You know, people don't change their minds because you say, hey,

something is wrong. If you don't apply pressure, if the world doesn't see it, if you don't expose it to the world, then they continue to live in the demanding that they're living. You know, these these prisons are based on trying to make money of bodies, you know, and they don't want to put money, they don't want they

want to spend the little dollars. It is possible to be able to maintain those prisons, and that's why they looked the way they are, That's why they wonder where they are, that's why the prisoners are treated the way they are. So, you know, thanks thanks to the federal government for looking in. Shout out to everybody participated. Yo Gott he was one of the first people's right there. He was like you know, he wanted to utilize his voice and his platform to bring attention to what was

happening inside departure of prison. So you know, it was a joint effort that were numerous artists. J Prince was there, Um, my brother, who else was It was a few other artists that I can't think of right now who came out and supported it. I mean, there was so many and I think we should run it back, like we should, you know, pull up for socials and show people or

Yandy was there, Jamil T. Davis was there. There were a number of individuals that showed up for the rally and people We went to um Mississippi probably five times trying to help with local meetings and the help or with the organizing efforts. We actually um took some of the resources that people were donating to until Freedom and we made sure to give it to folks that are there locally. Um, you know, we did what we could

as an organization to help elevate the issue. And then in addition to all of that, Rock Nation came in with their resources which they have many more and they were able to help bring it really like you know, expose it and put it out there, and the legal the the class action lawsuit is certainly helpful. So to your point, it's, um, you know, we have to continue to do this, and there are many other prisons that are having similar, if not worse situations that need to

be looked into as well. So this helps to set the standard, and then we have to do the work of going into these other local communities and helping to bring um to light some of the issues that's happening in those jails as well and those prisons as well. So us So that makes me and you know what I was thinking, because you said, um, you said something that made me think, what do oh, I know what it was. I was gonna say there and this is a part of my h this is my thought of

the debt. I was thinking to myself this weekend because people were tagging me all week into the man that said, you know, paid sponsor about the book that I've already mentioned, and you know, he was questioning, you know, why do I get to write a book. I'm like, well, you know, I'm I'm only almost thirty year veteran in this work, and so I would imagine he said, you know, people

getting paid for books. I would imagine that you, as especially as a black man, would not want me to be exploited where thirty years of my work is and and I'm going to give it to the world that I'm not paid for when other write about everybody else can write books about Couci, Lucci and Tucci, but me, I write a book about my experience as an organizer for almost thirty years of my life and what I've seen and what I hope we as a people that you know, that all of us will take on more

of a role in the movement. And for some reason that's that's questionable. And and you know, he also said something about how you know, people who are leaders or activists should go to be in study and I realized that people do not know or don't understand. Well, I mean, he's saying that they that they should sit in you know, and I guess and study groups and whatnot. And I and again what I'm saying is that I think people

don't recognize. First of all, I think that your real life experience and what you've actually been through is study groups enough in some situations. But I do think you have a responsibility to educate yourself on history. Um to educate, educate yourself on the politics of organizing and understanding where the pitfalls are and what others have tried, you know,

So those things. That's why study is important. But I think that when people see me, because I'm so cute and young looking, that they don't realize that for thirty years I have been sitting at the feet of graats that have organized and have been some of the biggest, the best historians. Um. You know, I've learned under people like Dr ben Joe Hockin. I've learned under people like Chassi Math and Tire and Dr s to Hied and folks and you know, and been in space with real

strong Black Pan africanness. Right, I've been in in that space my whole life. I think, you know, just looking at Mark Thompson and how to today, the Reverend Mark Thompson is my mentor, somebody who sits with me and talk to me. At two o'clock in the morning, we're on the phone with Reverend William Barber. So I think

folks don't understand that. And what I was thinking about is like is it just lucrative and like it doesn't matter anymore of whether a man or woman, but a man particularly is telling the truth about what they say. Is that does that even exist anymore? Is it just say whatever you want? And even though you're supposed to be a man and you call yourself honorable, you don't even have to know if what you're saying is true, and sometimes you know it's not, but you're still saying it.

And I'm not even talking about the first guy who's asking the questions. I'm just saying in general, I noticed that when I go, when I get tagged, if I hit these pages, people who call all themselves in the next post honorable and stand up are folks who are saying things about other people that are not true and they don't even know what they're talking about. But is it lucle to like, is their money actually being made on? This? Is what I'm asking because clearly I just don't know. Well,

you know me shout out to Peppoo's. Peppoo's called me earlier this morning and we was having this very similar commented conversation and it was like we are in a error where you can say anything, you know, you can literally say anything, and there doesn't have it doesn't have to be founded. It doesn't have to have any proof. You can't. You don't have to research it. You can just blurt out things and get a following with that. Because what happens is people are entertained by lies, right.

Who cares about the truth when the lie is more entertaining. People are entertained because if I can say the worst thing about you and it can be true, then that's gossip. Right, So if I say it, people don't want to They want it to be true. Some people are so jealous or envious or whatever it is that your situation may be or what they think your situation is, because you wear your your trauma and your pain better than others do, and and they only see you in a certain light.

And sometimes people envy your life or what they believe your life is so much that they want to see pain for you. They want chinks in your armor, they want you to be hurt, they want something negative to be about you. So when it's spurred it out and nobody kids, and what's happen is they are actually getting

paid for that to MAKA. The are YouTube channels and people on YouTube channels who who say the most unfounded and the most unrealistic in the biggest lives in the world, and they have hundreds of thousands of followers who want to believe that, and they just feed into it, and they just go there every day and they feed that

narrative and YouTube and and marketing. Certain marketing UM agencies and market people that want to be marketed are marketing on these channels because they have the amount of followers and views. So it's definitely lucrative. Lying in false you know, advertising and false you know, production and media is really a thing, and it's one of the most lucrative things

in the world right there. M Well, I have to figure out how to stop people from being and and it's unfortunate because sometimes I get no, let me not say. Sometimes the majority of the time, I get tagged two beautiful things educational issues, and I also get tagged two

cases and situations that's happening around the country. Like, for instance, this young woman UM was tagging me for a couple of days to something about what another young lady is going through in Washington, d C. And she's like, can you help her? And it was a simple thing. The young lady just needs an attorney to look at her her case, right, and so this is something that I'm more than likely can help with. And so when I get when I get tagged to some of those things,

I don't get to see them all. Sometimes it's a lot. Sometimes it's not. It's a light time, or I'm just not as busy, so I'm able to click and read and kind of understand, but in um but there. But then there are times when I hit things and it's really nasty, really nasty, And I was just trying to figure out because I don't know right, and I've asked, I asked other people, like help me understand something that I don't get. I don't understand, like, how how do

you right? How do you think you're going to be successful in your life if your time is being spent trying to tear down other people, and or your time is being spent focused on everybody else's stuff, If you're analyzing and and and and and and demeaning people, trying to humiliate them, and then and then and then when you go a step beyond that, lying on them, making up narratives, if you're if I focus my attention in that way on any individual or certain people in groups,

it's no way that this Parchment Prison thing would have happened. The reason why this Parchment prison situation has happened has happened is because all of the individuals involved. For a year, we were extremely focused on what we had to do. So we sat every day, we met, we traveled back

and forth. We were engaged heavily in this campaign, and never once throughout that was we were we using our social media or using whatever else to focus on some other individual who is doing other things that's helpful in our community. Right, whether or not we agree, I don't always agree. I think Carmen presides my sister. We're about to talk to her husband, even Jay, let's just use him.

Since Carmen is not here. She and I can sit down and say, well, I don't think we should go left, or Jay can say I think we should go right. We don't always agree, but at the end of the day, the fact that you're trying to do something matters to me, and I'm not going I don't have the time to spend You just don't have the energy all the time, or you don't you don't even have the want. I don't even want. It is these people have figured out how to do it, and this is what you're saying,

they make money. Yeah, it's quote unquote trolling. You know, it's it's become a beneficial thing, you know. So all I say is this, man, God bless you. If if utilizing my name is able to help you, then God bless you. But you won't get a response from me because that's over what we did those things. You Listen, you're being a dead horse. I'm telling you you you're howling at the moon and the moon ain't gonna move. You're wasting your time. Man. Well let's bring our guests on. Yes, man,

let's bring our guests on. Man. All of our guests have to get to they work. They are. Everybody's in the car. We've had Don Poo in the car, we had Nadea Henry travel with Sparkle. Everybody's in the car. People gotta get where they go and do what they're doing. You're in the car to that we're working. We're working. We're working, man, all the time. I appreciate you. Man. This is my brother, Jay Jordan's. He is the CEO

of Alliance for Safety and Justice. JA Jordan is nationally recognized public policy expert, political campaign specialists organizer, climate activists and entrepreneur. And he is my brother from another mother. Man, what's going on before you finish? Sister's husband Ms Carman Perez Jordan's and he is the father of two beautiful baby boys and a dog because now they have a little pup that has become a child of their family as well. Uh. And I'm happy to see you, Jay.

You welcome the street politicians. Bro. Yeah, I know, thanks for having and thanks for having me to honor to Uh. I'm and I'm excited to get into it. Yea, what part of the country are you in? I mean I'm actually in uh in l A. Okay, Yeah, I'm in l A. I'm in l A between l A and New York. But right now, but I know I'm actually an ox Hard right now. Yeah, I'm on M Street right now. So so listen, Jay, you know we brought

you on here. Tell us about what it is that you've been doing with the Alliance for Safety and Justice. Tell us about Tim's done, Tell them about what it is that you're trying to do for returning citizens, all the work that you've been doing. Yeah, someone level step for a minute. Um, so think about what safety is right,

like actual safety. Think about the time you feel most safe right now, Like, if you're listening to this, think about when you feel most suche think about aesthetically, what it looks like, what it smells like, who you around, Right, I guarantee you that nobody it's talking about cops in prisons when they think about safety. And yet the business model of the public safety system, the actual institution that's supposed to keep us safe, has nothing to do with

fresh cut grass. Our church are good schools, the things when you think about visually safety, you're thinking about like two hand touched football. You're thinking about pick up basketball, You're thinking about barbecues. Right, You're thinking about community home ownership. You're not thinking about more police, more prisons, more jails. You're not thinking about that stuff. But the entire system, right, Like in California, the state spends fifty billion dollars on

this public safety system. Fifty billion dollars. Zero zero percent of those dollars actually go to prevent crime from happening. Right. The entire public safety system is the race in the response system. It only responds after a crime occurs. Right. And so if what we consider to be safety is like not having crime in the first place, But our tax dollars are going to a system that has nothing to do with preventing crime and everything to do with

responding to crime after it happens. That makes no sense at all. As an aligned for safety and justice, we are the largest public policy organization working to change that paradigm in America. Were operating the ten largest incarcerator states California, Arizona, Texas, Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Georgia, and we're going into New York as well the next few years. And our goal is to shift state and local budgets to fit the priori are these of actual taxpayers.

So if you are a taxpaying citizen right now, or if you just are in America and you're consuming, you're paying taxes into that public safety system, you have a right, you have a constitutional right to be safe, and the

system that is currently in place is not safe. And so we pass laws, we run campaigns, we organize victims of crime, we organize people who have been arrested are incarcerated, to change this paradigm in these states and then not only pass these laws, but then work with the government to implement these laws because a lot of times we pass laws, that's the politics side. The governing side is what people don't hear about. But this these are the

things that community actually deals with every day. We deal with police, we deal with shares, we deal with prisons and probation and parole. That's government, right, But we always talk about politics what's on TV. But the government side is the implementation side, and so we just don't do

the politics side and pass these laws. We also work with meant on the governing side implement these laws to ensure that if we pass a law that says, you know, hey, people, um that got caught with you know, I don't so we don't go to jail. We make sure that those folks who got caught in the past get their record expunged as well. Right, And that's the tough work that we do UM with with. Most recently, we launched a program called Time Done and my son you were there

to make you were there? Um. It was headlined by Nipsey Hustle. He helped us launch it. You helped us launch it, and the goal is to raise awareness about what happens and what has happened. Right UH as a result to over incarceration are incarceration first policies in the last twenty to thirty years in America. The result is seventy million people have been arrested, are incarcerating seventy millions, Right, that is a lot of people. That's more than the

entire country of Canada. Right, we have We've arrested and incarcerated more people than the entire country of Canada. And if you are, if you've been arrested, are incarcerated, if you um, the deeper you go into the justice system, the more harmful it is for you when you get out. There's something called collateral consequences. This is what a lot of people don't know. Right, there's a term. It is a legal term called collateral consequences. There's forty eight thousand

of these and these are actual laws. These are laws that are economic, social, um and civic sanctions that people with felonies and with misdemeanors phase after they serve their sentence to get this. These aren't triggered until you're done with your sentence, until you're done with professional up roll, then these things go into play. So yeah, no, okay, So because this is the one that I wanted to ask you about because I was blown away when I

heard about the collateral consequences. I was an ignorant person who believe that once someone finished their sentence and there and they're like time is done, and like real time that I'm talking about off for roll off, probation, off everything they could unless they, of course, if they were like they had like a rape or something like that, you know, sexual assault offense like that on their record. I thought they could return to society like any other

person and just get back and do whatever. When I learned that things like opening up a barber shop they couldn't, or maybe they couldn't get a barber license, they can't be dog walkers, I was blown away because also the things that it seems that people are being prevented from doing have absolutely nothing to do with public safety. Like, how does a person getting a barber license and or

walking a dog have to do? Or how does that keep people safe if someone is doing that too, so that they can work and not go out and commit a crime. Yeah, yeah, that's that's the that's the million dollar question. Right. So the first ever, So, first off, these collateral consequences derived from what was called the Black Codes, right, um. And I'm sure if y'all watch street politicians, you heard the Black Codes, right. This this was the result of

radical reconstruction. So after in eighteen sixty five, when the mess Spaship Proclamation was signed and slavery uh legally ended in America, there was something called the Black Codes that were instituted. And these were laws that essentially put on the books that criminalized people from doing everyday thing like you know, um standing on the street corner, are crossing the street while a white person was on the side side sidewalk, right, Like, all these different laws were created.

The first ever recorded collateral consequence, right that the row from that derived from the black clothes was in nineteen uh in eighteen nine Hawker versus New York. Right. And this is super important for people to understand. This is the bedrock of what we have today. So you have the Black Codes. The Black Codes kinda ceased to exist and they turned into the gym crow. And then you had people that were going actually going into prison and

and getting felonies. And when you got out, you weren't you know, um tied down in like after you weren't tied down after doing radical reconstruction. You were just criminalized. So in Hawker Burst, New York, it was a doctor that performed an abortion. At the time, abortions were illegal. So he served his time, he got out and continued to practice medicine. Well what happened was they, Um, the U. S.

Supreme Court passed the law. That's said, the state of New York passed a law that said, if you have a felony, you can't practice medicine. Well, this was after he had served his time. So they snatched his men and they snatched his license away from him. He appealed to Supreme Court, right and said, wait a minute, I already served my time. You can't SNA's my license because this happened. Um, I got my license back before you pass this law. The Supreme Court ruled, and this is important.

The Supreme Court ruled and said, because you committed a crime, you are a bad moral character. For the rest of your life, you can't be trusted. Right, that was the foundation, the foundation of collateral consequences. Fast forward to nineteen fifty. We went from a uh, we had a bunch of like you know, um, industrial economy to a service economy.

And this was the rise of occupational licensing boards. Right, and during the nineteen fifties and sixties, when you know you had these professional occupations and you have to get a license for them, they begin to pass laws because the mob had all of the job. So the federal government said, you know what, all these dudes are fell in, Let's pass the law that says you cannot be in a licensed profession and get your license unless you don't

have a felony. That that that prevented people from getting occupational licensing. Fast forward to the mass incarceration era. From nineteen seventy to nineteen ninety, you had a mass criminalization of a bunch of black and brown men and a bunch of black and brown limits, and that all that was cool. But then in nineteen you have the Crime Bill, and that added a bunch of social sanctions. And see where you got you not being able to get food stamps,

not being able to get pale grants. So not only could you could people with felonies not get occupational licenses, now you can't even like operate in society with your kids. Fast forward to one. This is where you're seeing the proliferation of the background check industry. In two one, there wasn't a background check industry. Less than of employers and landlords were doing background checks. Post nine eleven, upwards of

nine of employers and landlords now do background checks. Like two years after nine eleven happened, right the Background Check Association was formed and everybody begin to do background checks in the injuries of national security. So now what do you have. You have seventy million people that have been arrested, our cars rated UM. They can't work if you have a felony in America. You can't work in finance, can't work in education, can't work in insurance, can't work in government,

can't work in UM A lot of texts sectors. You are barred from the growth sectors. You're not you just can't get one or two jobs. You're barred from entire industries. Not only are you you barred from entire industries, but you're also but you're also barred from participating in your child's education and in child's life. You can never adopt, you can't join the p t A, you can't coach a soccer team, you can't even you can't even join your own h o A. Not only do you have

these social sanctions. You also have housing sanctions, and this is important too. So people can't work, they can't really participate in their child's education and extracrit correct activities as a volunteer only other spectator. And then people are regulated two areas that are unsafe because landlords do background checks,

so nine of housing out there people cannot live. Until we're aggregating all these people that can't work, that can't really participate into society, and then they all live by each other and they're living in areas with extractive industries. Extractive industries like payday loans, And think about the hood and right now esthetically designed is exthecically and designed to

extract wealth and extract health from our people. Think about the payday loans, think about the beil bonds, the liquor stores to buy here, pay here, car lots, all that is extracted. And so people with felonies are forced to live in these neighborhoods and then you and then what happens is the sad reality is health begin to deteriorate if you have a felony. In America, like on the aggregate um, the health outcome for people with felonies are ten years less than someone with not right, and so

we've created what we call post conviction poverty. And that's what this is about. And so Time Done addresses post conviction poverty by providing economic empowerment opportunities to people who've been arrested, are incarcerated, and then political education and engagement

opportunities to help change these laws. So so right now, the the initiative that you're doing right now, what is the particular initiative that you are focusing on right now that are focusing on changing these you know, these harsh laws that are are detrimental to return the citizens. So it's two ways, right Um. You cannot ask people to be politically engaged if they don't know where they're gonna

get their next meal. You cannot ask people to go out to a march, are signed up to vote if their kids are struggling and they can't pay rent and they can't afford uh six dollar gallons of guys. You know, you just can't. Like, it's just it just it doesn't work. It's not it's not I'm with the people. You can't ask up when I when I came when we came back from Africa and I went to the gas station into the car wash. First of all, my car wash

has been twenty dollars. The car wash was thirty dollars and the gas was six dollars and forty nine cents a gallon. And I was sitting there like, Yo, this is I can afford it, but it hurts. But I still can't afford it. But I can't imagine with some of my family members who cannot. They cannot afford they really literally can't even afford four dollars a gallon. So six dollars and forty nine cents, Bro, that's crazy. Yeah, it's it's wild and so and so, like we during

the pandemic, what we it? We were like, we're the ones out there saying, oh, man, if you're formally in cars spreaded, if you got a record, right you know, if you if you got a criminal record, come to us and helpless change these laws. That was us. That was like, literally that's what we were doing. So we called people during the pandemic. We we develop of a phone banking internal phone banking call center, and we called

our members. We got seventy thousand members, right, We called them and it was like they're like, hey, listen don't call me unless you got a job for me. Don't call me. And we're like our phone bankers are like, yo, this is traumatic, and like, no, it's not traumatic. Traumatic for you. Imagine how they're feeling. And so we we put our entire script. So what we do is we

do two ways. So we provide economic empowerment opportunities. We actually launched the first ever economic empowerment platform for people strictly tailored for people who've been arrested. Our cars ready, and we we we connect them with actual careers, some jobs. We connect the with UM Credit and perst the finance courses for free and UM shout out to my brother j Morrison the Legacy Center University. They're taking folks through a first time HomeBuyer course and get them folks in

the mindset of actually owning their own homes. So we connect them a job, We teach them how to save money and get their credit right, and then Jay Morrison like linked them up and ensure that they can actually get housing right. The other thing that we do is we're putting our own bread up to ensure that everybody, if you've been arrested, are in car spreading or if you've been a victim of crime and you're struggling financially to pay gas, to pay childcare, to pay what at groceries.

We have a loyalty program. All you gotta do is actually become a member and you get access to our lord our member loyalty program. This off. This provides people with over seven hundred thousand discounts across the country. So for like like like off of gast, off of your grocery bill. If you want to go to baby Gap and buy your kids a school school close, a lot of people can't even do that, right I remember my parents buying these school clothes. People don't even buying their

kids school clothes right now because it's so expensive. We're providing people an opportunity to not only beat inflation, but get under inflation by providing these business deals. And that is economic empower platform for a time. Done, and then after we stabilize folks, we have the deep conversations about what they actually need, if they need mental health support, if they need anything, right, we actually linked them up

with that. And then after we stabilize them, then we turn them into our chapters and our chapters and where we do the political education and engagement. And so our big policy goal that we're working on now is called sunsets. It's pretty simple. After you serve your time and you remain crime free for X amount of years, your record goes away, right, it becomes spent. They do this in the UK, they do it in Friends, they do this in other countries around the world. Where your record cannot

be the reason why you denied a house. Your record cannot be the reason why you deny the job. Right, um, and our our underlying foundational goal is that everyone to have a right to earn their redemption. Right, yes you did, Yes, you did. You did harm in the community. Right, you should have a right to earn your redemption and get back to life like it is. It is the most unconstitutional, un American thing to not allow somebody to put themselves

up by their bootstraps. You know. Um, let me ask you. Let me ask you a question, Um, Jade's as we close out, I know you want one that's important. Okay, you go first, and then I'll do my last ones. I want I want people to understand your background, because that's what I was going to ask about. So that's what I want to do. Well, what I was gonna ask. So maybe it's a two part thing, but what I was gonna ask is less, bring it home and make

it real for people so they can understand. Because when we talk about these things folks, you know, like for sense, for me, um, you know, people are like, oh, you know drug addiction is a problem, Like yeah, and when I was addicted, this is what happened and where I went and whatever. And then it's like, yo, I start getting all kinds of phone calls for people you would never you don't even know, and they're hitting me like, hey, I need to talk to you. Could you help me out? Um,

you know with my situation. So making it personal is important. What are some of the goals that you have in your personal life that right now there's a barrier to you being able to do some of these things because of the um, you know, the consequences issue that you talked about. And I guess that feeds right into my

son's question about what is your background? I just want because for me right being formally canstrated, understanding the stigma, and just listening to Jay and just realizing how brilliant he is, understanding that he is the CEO of this company, and he has a lot of people who for following him and that he's given all this information and the work that he does is phenomenal and just showing you that rehabilitation is really possible and what you can, what

we can do, what we're given the opportunities after we returned to be back to society. So I just wanted you to get Yeah. So, I mean a few months after my eighteenth birthday, I was involved with a robbery. Right. Uh. I didn't get no money, no one was hurt. I was the only one who got caught didn't tell. So they gave me seven a half years and they gave

me two strikes. Right. I served two years of solitary confinement and during that time, I really I put my head into the books and my goal was to become a millionaire before I turned thirty. I got out when I was twenty six. Um, and the way I will become a millionaire was I was gonna, uh sell use cars, open up a barbershop, and in that barbershop, sell life insurance and sell real estate. Right that was my goal.

And life insurance because a bunch of people on it was dying in real estate because everybody was renting UM. When I got out. I couldn't sell real estate because I couldn't get the license to my felony. Couldn't sell insurance, I couldn't get the license because of my felony. Couldn't become a barber even though I was cutting here in prison, couldn't become a barber because UM, I couldn't get the license because of my felony. So I ended up UM

buying and selling vendor machines, and I was successful. I started with four vendor machines and I grew that business to a hundred and two vendom machines. You know, over the course of my eight months, I was hustling, and then I got away from that because I didn't want my legacy to be pay days and greeto's, you know what I mean. I saw a bunch of people dying, and so I started to organize kids. Uh fast forward, became the on the first ever UM campaign field director

for congressional race when while I was still on parole. Right, I was literally on parole running a congressional field campaign for UM California Congressional District nine. And we, like no one believed in us, but we one by the largest margin ever UM in that in that in that district. UM and I got involved with a s J About seven years ago. I started as networks manager, and I was giving opportunity and like no one believed in me. I was. I was homeless. Like I used to I

was so broke. I used to cut the top romin in half and eat one in the morning and then one in the afternoon. I would like pay um when I got paid, I would like actually put gas in my tank just to go drive to South Los Angeles and organized churches before I would feed myself because I was so in love with changing lines and giving folks an opportunity. And that paid off. That paid off. I

started as networks manager seven years ago. Now I'm the CEO the largest criminal justice reform organization in the country. And you know this is not you know, like something that um, you know, uh is not possible for anybody. This is actually possible for a lot of people been arrested, are incarcerated. If you've ever been arrested, are incarcerated. If you have a loved one that's been arrested, are incarcerated.

That does not mean you are less than it actually means that you are a community expert and you need to lean into this issue. Like with Time Done. If you are watching this and you've been arrested, are incarce ready to you're formally incars ready or returning citizen? You know somebody, you're married to, somebody, you got a family member. Go to Time Done dot org. Go to Time Done dot organ. The first thing you're gonna see on there

is forwards. You are not alone, because you're not. There's seventy million of us and we're not gonna stop until we get free. Um. This is I believe one of the largest miscarriages of justice that this country has ever seen outside of slavery. Um to the mass incarceration and the mass colonization of millions of American citizens, and the disenfranchisement and the of the economic and social and civic

sanctions put on people like me. Um right now, even though my crime was twenty years ago, my crime was twenty years ago. I got out over a decade. I've been out over a decade and committed a crime and a deck like in twenty years. Right, I cannot ever adopt a kid, MH, I can I have? I have two boys, right, I can't volunteer at their school. You know. Um, I tried to get an our pair because we needed some help, right you know, Um, they asked me if

I had a criminal record. I'm trying to pay somebody to come and watch my kids, and they're asking me if I have a criminal record. You know, we bought a home. I can't even join the h o A. Right. These are things I can never do. And contrary to popular belief, even if I were to receive a gubernatorial pardon from California, that would not remove these economic sanctions, right, so they're there. There's literally no way that I can

get free. No way I will if if if people don't act and wake up, like people like me, who is who are who? Who's? You know should be able, you know, by all accounts, should be able to get my record expunge, right, But I can't because of my felony. Right, Like, I'm gonna die with these collateral consequences, and millions like me. Right,

Hopefully you will not die with the collateral consequences. Because you guys are working together, we're you know, I'm listening to you talk about your experiences and when you said, you know still it's the second greatest miscarriage of justice, right along with um slavery. And we just came back from visiting the dungeons where the enslaved Africans were held. We walked the routes, we went and bathed in the

river where um our ancestors took their last bath. And the thing when I listened to you, all I can think is they are still doing this ship to us right now like it hasn't. No one has paid. First of all, and I'm talking about from a reparations perspective

and or prison or any level of accountability. Some of those people who are engaged in oppressing enslaving, murder, trafficking, sexual assault, robbery, everything you can think of of our ancestors, they still their family members reign in certain areas of this world today. They are still holding our gold. They are still at this point their money is being backed

by the blood of our ancestors. And still today even though we have all these six that we don't had Obama, we got Old, we got Oh, we got Barack j my son to Mika Mallory, and the list goes on a black people who are doing incredible things. The masses of our folks are still caught up in a middle passage. It's still a middle passage that we are in. And yet and still folks smile in our face like we're

supposed to just be happy. And in the words of our brother Angelo Pinto, Attorney Angelo Pinto, Black folks are not outraged enough. We are not outraged enough. So we want to be supporting you and continue to support you. And I know my song works with you. Whatever it is that we can do to be more involved, I feel like to your point, this is like a ground zero issue. We can worry about a whole bunch of things, but this particular issue is ground zero for someone like

me who has influence in the world. Appreciate you. Appreciate you. One one one last thing about that um we were I was just talking to Carmen about this on the way up here. Um. You know, in the bucket of reparations, there is so much in that pot if you think about the like you know, if I were to ask a question, was colonization like the like the Translantic slave trade, and then like even before that colonization right where Portugal, Spain and England sent ships over here to essentially look

for resources and they found land. Like the colonization of

the western world. I believe it is something that people have not looked at enough because if you think about what they did to like um Um, those African folks over there, and they not only did it to Africans, but they literally slaughtered like like most indigenous tribes in South America, right, like so and so like if we have a discussion around what did colonization achieve, it literally achieved you know where, we wouldn't be on the iPhone

right now having this discussion. And like we need to have a honest conversation around the impacts, right of colonization on certain people, most notably and most like like central is the enslavement of Africans, right, and then you have to look at they indentured servitude all the Irish folks. They brought the Japanese over here and put them in ternment camps to make them built the railroad. They slide

at the Aztecs, they killed off the indigenous folks. There's a lot of people in there, and I believe it is up to I hate to say this, but it's up to black folks in the diaspora, all of us to begin to have a global conversation colonization, because I know you know this, I know y'all know and know this the same stuff that we're going through in America as black people looking for deal. Look in Mexico, looking Haiti, looking Ecuador looking friends, look in Spain, look in India,

everybody in the diaspora. It's mass incarceration. People got felonies, people are are dying of health conditions. Like it's literally the same ship that we're doing. It's happening all across the diasproa. And you cannot tell me. You cannot tell me that causation doesn't equal correlation in this regard. You

enslaved folks. You ripped us from our homeland. You you're not only enslaved, but you literally stripped us from our culture, our names, our language, everything, and you put us and you spread us all all across the country and and all across the world. And years later we're struggling and now you're killing us, you know, and you're and and you're imprisoning us. Like that's something I just don't know what else, Like how how the hell can like how the hell can we not save Like this is a

uh caused by commonization. So I'm with y'all. I can't wait to get into that conversation. I mean, me and nineteen Keiths been texting back and forth with my and my new brother right there, man, texting back and forth, and I think this, I'll say that. I'll say this last thing. I believe that this is gonna be the

year of the Dow decentralized autonomous organizations. Right, It's only the year of the Dow and dows and leveraging that um um Web three technology is going to allow us to do some transformational ship, right, And I cannot wait to build with y'all on this Web three and a doubt, building a doubt to actually help us achieve that goal. Well, I love you, King the work, don't stop, man, shout out to my brother g Jordan, keep doing doing the work,

all right, y'all. That's phenomenal. And that's what it's about, man. You know, for me, like listening to Jake, you know, it brings me to you know, the new segment that I want to add two hour show like that. We said that we're gonna add to our show. We're gonna be doing individual interviews. You're gonna be individually interviewing people

that you want to interview. And I'll have some individuals that I want to interview, and I really want to focus mainly on formally costs in cost rate, individuals that have risen, who have overcome, who have come home and been successful, have done positive things, who don't get the life. You know, people you might know them, but you don't even know that they've been incost rate a lot of people within these industries, you don't know that they did three or four years or five years in prison, who

who turned their life around. You just see their successes now. So I want to take those individuals and highlight them and show you that you can be reformed, that people do come home and are able to be successful. So that's gonna be a segment. You know. The first episode I did was with one of my mentors, you know, the person who introduced me into this industry. You know,

he was a well into the music industry. Okay, found me, he was my manager, found me on the corner in the Bronx, took me and got me a record deal, you know, because he was and he had influence that came from his former you know, street dealings. When he was a hustler in the streets. He was one of

the biggest hustlers in Queens, you know. And he came home after being sentenced to twenty seven years in prison and actually get in his sentence commuted because they did sent wrong and he only served like four and a half and he came home and he did a lot of stuff in industry. The interview is gonna be dope. His name is Tony Jake Anthony Jacobs also not as Pretty Tone or Tony Montana as they called him in Queens. Man. He's one of one of the first biggest drug dealers

and he's changed his life around. You see this had I got co respected Jips. He has a new movie that he executive produced along with my Man Christ and also executive produced with Push Your t that is gonna be hit in the theaters May six. So I this is his first ever interview. So we're gonna play like a little clip of it on this show so you can get it, But the main clip is gonna be on my YouTube page that you can all be able

to watch. It's a long interview, but it's so in depth and it gives you, you know, into his life into his realities and into his growth and where he is right now. You know, um, first of all, you've never done an interview. I know. I'm somebody that's close to you, so I know a little bit, and you never let nobody know everything you know, and so this is probably gonna be eyes open to a lot of people. So I want you to explain. You know, I know that you m when I met you, you was home

for a little while front the fads. You know, a lot of people say, well, that's tone from Alton, that's tone from Queens home for four years. You have been home for four years, So that's that's what That's how I passed cross and I was doing music and you was the first person to take me under your wing and get me something. So give a backstory on why you was locked up, What was going on in Why was you locked up? Like what would you doing in Queens?

Like everybody kept saying, you don't know tone, that's tone from Queens. You don't know tone, And I'm like, now, I don't know tone. So you know, give give us a little bit of the history, because you know that's unfortunately, we've got to get down into the history of certain things I feel. I feel like that's that's necessary because

it's all about evolution. So that's the process. That's something like I want to like hopefully I can invite some of my younger comrades, you know, and I will, I will. This interview was about talking to some of my congrasses in the streets that's in the struggle and that's in the system. You know. I feel like a lot of them, that's right. I feel like they are and nobody really pay his attention to them. And that's why they don't pay attention to ship that people have a problem with.

As far as like being in the streets, I'm coming from the street. I'm a product of the streets. I had a lot of ship in my days. But as far as like me in the eighties, you know, we just it was a time where you know, we figured out how to get some money. Drug was the way to do it. It was everything to do. I'll be honest with you. I didn't think it was a better job than selling drugs. So why do you say that. I don't know, because I guess I was making a

lot of money. I was just like a lot of money, Like what is I mean you gotta give us some contact. You're saying a lot of money, Mike, A lot of money is like when you get caught, you know, they seize five six million dollars worth of stuff? How about that? Okay, so you got caught and they seized seased, didn't find no money, seized, seized five million dollars worth of what property? Cars? You know, ship like that. Wow. So they never felt the money, but no money. And we never got caught

with drugs, never got cold with drugs. More money, but they seize five millions with the problem. Yeah a lot. Yeah, So what would you say? You know, it was like how how much money do you think you was making? Like weekly? Give me just what you would what you would what you would say, you know, because I wanted I want to get into context because you're saying a lot of money. So a lot of a lot of people listen. And we was making a lot of money, like we was making a lot of money like money.

Whereas it would take your days to count it, like me as you say it like that days the days, like how many days depends depends on the most for four days four days straight to count money. Wow. And he was making this in Queens. In Queens, I don't know no other, but I've never made money nowhere else in Queens you make And when was that? Like? Um, I would say, you know, well I got locked up in eighty eight, so let's just say eighty five, eight eight.

But I would say like eighties six eighty seven was like it was like the year that was like like what are we doing? What are you gonna do? It? All? This? But um, I would say like it helped me a lot to come home, Like I wasn't better when I came home, and I feel like a lot of people sucked me over and ship you know, stole money whatever, But I just came on and got back on my feet. So what did you do like when you came home? Like who was the process getting on your feet? What

did you do? My kids? Mother was living in a basement. You want somebody's spotted that. I'm like, huh really nah? Within like a month or whatever, I was like eye of that ship, and I'm like no, I just had a door to Brittany. I just had Brittany and ship. So you know, I was like, you know, bro, I had to get right back on what two? And then? So you what you came home that straight back on my one. But I was smarter about it. I didn't.

I What I realized is that if anything happened to me or whatever, I'm going down by myself, so I would not. It wasn't like how before was like a lot of moving pieces like I just I'll just do me. So you came home, I got back when you one too, got out the basement. Yeah, got out the basement doing good or whatever. But how I get into the music industries because I had got hit up nine times? So you got when you came when you gotta hit up nine some street ship in the game. So how did you, like,

how did that happen? Like you just said it. I'm not saying what it was. I'm not I don't want you. I'm saying when you was doing he was doing what you got shot. I don't want to know who it was. Was you walking? Oh no? And I was sitting in my car, you're sitting I was sitting my car waiting for somebody, and then I just came and start done. No, they didn't do it that I was sending my car and they probably just like like it's this, it's like three of these rooms away, and they would just started

shooting into my car. And I've seen it, so I put my seat back, you know. But if so, where you gonna hear that everywhere everywhere? Like my leg my bag, I'm you know, all over that I got. I got hit up, Yeah, like I was hit up. A lot of some of them was. At first they thought it was more than nine, but a lot of them with some in and outs. Um and then uh, I just I would say this too. And this is another thing that made me always when I work came home, I

stayed working out. But I was just working out because I like to work out. But if I wasn't in the shape that I was in, I would have died. Wow. But I wasn't good enough shape to fight the trauma to get to the hospital. So when I'm going to the hospital or when I'm laying like I was, when I was laying like when I got they got me onto the car, laying on the grass or whatever something. I was in front of a church, this motherfucking the

textas told me who shot you? I'm like, Yo, you're serious, nigger. You think I'm gonna sit up here and talk to you about who shot me? And I'm hit up, so so they just put me in an ambulance and all all I all I kept saying, is like, yo, just put me to sleep, man, because I've been hit before the shotguns, so I know what it is. Like. I rather just just put me to sleep and anyway, ain't wake up for two weeks and I see you. I

stayed in the hospital for four months. But in the hospital at first, I still wasn't taking ship serious and I was like, yo, cream, like I was asking and it wasn't there. I was like, yo. I was like, I started thinking that Guard put me on this earth for a reason because all these chances of freedom to do next to me got shot twice he died. So then I'm like, yo, maybe God put me on this I started thinking he put me on this earth for

a reason. So my whole process started really changing this ship because I was like, Yo, why why I'm getting all these chances? I really don't deserve them, like you know what I'm saying. So then that's when I was like, yo, I gotta do something different. I'm telling people the movies, man, do that your tunes to I said, still, like it's evolution, man, you know and that's and that's what that's what the whole thing was to do this because I want people

to understand that, you know, you have a past. I don't have a past because I ain't that never did nothing in the industry like you're talking about past. Past. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah my past. But see my past was to gride my future. Mice. I can't. I can't. I can't sit around here and explain that people like, why you want to feel like I'm this notorious person when you don't like it. Nice. No, you just said you don't know nothing. Nobody knows me. I

only thin know me. That's but I let everybody talk about helicopters and all this. I never confirmed or deny anything. I just let you talk because that's what you want to do. If I say something you ain't. If I say, yo, I had a motherfucking private jet, you still gonna say, oh, TONA had a helicopter. Whatever you want to say. You're gonna say what you wanna say. So I'm a well, you just go wrong with what say what you want to say. I would go people want to say that.

So I never was you know, I never talked. I just this is, and that's what I'm this is the first interview, Like, yeah, but I gotta reason for that ship. Man, I'm trying. This is my purpose right now. And and by the way, this is my man ship. Like I ain't a film person, but you know he's like, yo, bro, I was living, I was in I was in l A then there like trying to be like fucking Howard Huge, just get the funk away from everybody. Be I'm good.

They can call me back in man, but I don't regret it because this ship right here gave me purpose and I feel like, you know, like we want to do urban content and just really be like to explain to people like people like me, like him or whatever, like we didn't we wasn't born to be who we are. Things wasn't want to be ganging them. It was wasn't wasn't born to sell drugs, rob banks, whatever, were products

of our environment. The problem is is that when we we wish for a thousand or two thousand, and then we started making money, we forget about our purpose. We chase the money. Now, so now this is about a lot of time we all crash and burn because at the end of the day, you're making hundreds of thousands of potentially millions. Whatever you're doing, you're chasing the money and it's a hot So after he was released from on the commusation, which is interesting that it all ties

into the show, I wasn't. I didn't even know that when I was thinking about some of the current topics. But after he was released, he ever get back to get into trouble again? Did he ever go back to prison or was he pretty much did he figure out a path from there? It's not what he sees. The thing about him, he's so honest. He's honest to a fault. Right, So when he came back home and he was trying

to figure it out, he didn't have no way. He actually went back to the streets and he started hustling again, and he built himself up, he said, when he came home, you know it was he didn't have nothing. He built himself up, and he had family members who were who was married to pus family members. And then he got into industry, started managing Mason, and he navigated his way through that way, and you know, ultimately he got to where he is today, doing you know, legal things, doing

positive things. In this movie, he's been working on for a long time, and I'm proud of I'm proud of him because I know him and he's always been a mentor to me. He's somebody that I call that gives me the best advice, the royalst advice that I don't want to hear all the time, but it's always the realest advice ever. And just being able to see him elevate it's something that's dope for me. I think that's why we have to support people like Jay Jordan's and

and you know so many that you know well. I'm specifically talking about folks who are dealing with trying to catch a tone as soon as you come out of the doors of a prison. Right. We have to support those types of programs because there's only a few steps that a person can take without feeling like they have any support before they revert to what they know now

whether or not you actually go back to it. And it's not about celebrating or or praising it, because we don't want we want to see that people will continue to move in a progressive way. And there are some folks that when they come home, a person like you, no matter what it is, that they have been through and are currently going through. They're not going to return to any type of negativity. They're gonna try their best

to stay on the up and up. And you had already been focused on changing your life before you were incarcerated, but unfortunately what you went through lost the records. There so many things happened. You could have easily got on the street and called a friend and said set me up so I can make some money, but you didn't, right, So that so that's but but you are, as you always say, you are not the majority, right because most people trying to figure it out, it's it's it's not easy.

So these programs and our government that claims that they want safety, they're trying to deal with recentivism and all of these issues. Then we have to focus on as soon as an individual steps through the gates, there is not giving them anything. I'm not talking about coming you. You stay, show up and you're like, we're gonna give you a hundred thousand dollars so you can get started

in your life. But a job, right, a job, and if you have all these barriers, the forty five thousand or forty eight thousand, the correct the consequences that collateral consequences that Jay just spoke about. The jobs that you can get are limited, right, So you need these things. You need jobs, You need healthcare so you can get in there and first of all take care of your body, but also take care of your mind. Right. You need um, you need, you need, especially if you have a family,

you might need counseling for how you and your children acclimate. Again, it's a lot of things that have to be done to help you turn get back into society. So what do we do about that? And that's a big question that we have to pick apart and figure out what more can our government and or and forget about the federal the president and all of those people, because we already know, as you said, they're failing us all the time.

But these local folks, congressional members, senators, folks, state senators, city council individuals, we need to be charging them with what is your role in this particular word? Mm hmm. And and that's pretty much the truth. You know, there are so many people who are struggling, so many people trying to figure it out, and that that's pretty much

like what I don't get. I don't get how you expect people who don't have opportunities or resources to be successful, Like what what what is the plan if you don't if you give somebody nothing, where are they supposed to get something from? You know, when we talk about all these individuals, when we talk about what Jay focused on,

he said, they focused on the problem. After there's the problem, right, there's nothing that stopped Like you said, there's nothing to give somebody like to him when he comes straight home from jail. There's nothing to prevent him from going to jail, so that their processes and organizations and situations that he can get into so you don't have to. I found out he was in the navy, you know, he did three years in the Navy and came home and trying to figure it out, you know, and then and and

and changes happened in his life. But what are the resources in our communities that make sure that these kids don't have to that people don't have to resort to crime? I say, all the time poverty is violenced, poverty is crime. You know, if we if we know that, if we know that there's a direct correlation from poverty to poverty to crime, why aren't we focused on stopping poverty, you know,

because it doesn't fit capitalism right. In order for capitalism to flourish, there has to be poverty, and unfortunately they've chosen that minorities are the people who have to live in this poverty so that the rest of the one and two percent of people can continue to flourish. So, you know, I just don't understand, I understand it. It's not meant. You know that this is by design. Like you said, people say the system is failing. The system is not failing. The system is doing exactly what it

was meant to do. It was it was meant to incarcerate people. It was meant to create conditions that only crime confess through it because they need crime, and they need all of these organizations that they're able to get free labor off of crime, and they're able to continue to market and utilize crime and in poverty in order to make this capitalistic society continue to run. M Well, I what I will say is that there are organizations out here doing the work. We have to find them,

know them, support them. And you know, perhaps some of the people, some of our critics that spend so much time focused on what we're doing, who we're what we're saying, where we're going and all of that. Maybe just maybe if they're looking for a way to be able to grow in their own careers, and and also if they're looking for a way to participate and to show how

it's done. Because they're saying, we're doing it wrong, we're not doing it right, we don't speak right, we don't look right, we don't support the right causes, we're not doing all. Maybe they can find these organizations and these individuals and support them, work with them, and just know though that it's not quick and easy. And that's to me, that's the biggest problem that most of us deal with when trying to figure out how to be a part of It's not that they're bad people. It's not that

everybody out here who's critical is a bad person. There's some people who are clowns, and that's what it is. But there are other people who are critical because they're in pain, because they have trauma, and their trauma makes them look at some of us like you said, that look a little dressed up, and we look like we got it together, and they're like, well, how come you

look this way? I'm still struggling and you're supposed to be helping the community, and I don't see how what you're doing is is fixing my corner, my block, my street, my grandmama situation. And I risk respect that I understand it. But what people have to understand is that it took over four hundred But now we know, and and Brother Hassan and others tell me all the time slavery was

not four hundred years. It's been over five hundred years that our people were captured in slave trafficed, abused, and murdered over five hundred years. And so it is not gonna be that in this short period of time that I'm living, that you're living, that Dr King lived, that Rose Aparts lived, that whoever you want to name, that short period of time cannot roll back everything that has happened to us for over five hundred years. It's gonna take work, and it's going to take that we as

a people work together. That's all facts to we can marry. I want to shout you out with your boycott black murder attire. Got my boycott black murder what I'm saying, and sweatshirt they focused because the boycott Black murder movement is coming to UH town near you, state of emergency. The paperback book is out now to day for that and pick it up. And I'm actually on Kindle Unlimited as well, so people who are read books on Kindle, you can go to Kindle Unlimited and read my book

as well. So there's a lot of progress happening. To not assume that a lot of people because of the progress. That's what really really irritates. You're gonna be mad at me because this year my birthday is coming. We in tourist season, and I'm so focused after leaving Africa and and understanding what my ancestors had to go through just for me to get here. I cannot I cannot define, I cannot make their you know, their plight in vain.

So the level of fight and energy that I'm gonna put into two winning and and and making sure that the freedom that we want we get in every aspect, and putting back into my community and just being successful all around is going to be at a level that you've probably never seen before. So get ready to be angry, Get ready to troll, get ready to post, make YouTube, post whatevery call. You're gonna call me everything. But I want you to understand something. I'm not an ambulance chasing right,

you know what I am. I'm a I am a hood doctor who performs triage in the places that the ambulance don't come. But that said, I'm not gonna always be right. Tamika Mallory is not gonna always be wrong, but we will both always and I mean always, be authentic. Number one show in the world. We got this baby, ye Listen to Street Politicians on the Black Effect Network on I Heart Radio, and catch us every single Wednesday for the video version of Street Politicians on I Women

Dot TV. That's how we own it.