He Was the Quiet One—Until He Made Noise in Every Room

I'm Tamika D. Mallory and it shit Boy, my Son it Generally we are your host of TMI.

Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, motivation and inspiration.

New name, new energy.

But same. How you doing today, Tamika D.

Mal good good, good good, Let's get it, Let's get it.

What's going on with you?

Oh?

Well, I think the only thing I could tell you about what's going on with me is that as I'm getting older, I have new pains and aches, and when I get out the bed, I have to roll onto the floor and stand up by limbs and then try to like shake.

It out my elbow herds.

I'm just trying to figure out what is forty five because it's just.

Total different feeling. That's all. That's all that's happening with me right now.

I remember forty five. It was a different filming.

It was forty five. Was that you knew that you was forty five?

I don't know.

I mean, you know, I believe I'm in good health, you know, knock on wood. I've been exercised. I tend to take care of myself. But you don't feel eighteen no more.

You know what I'm saying.

But I felt eighteen at thirty five, at thirty.

Five year because it's still that's still fresh, you know. But after the forties you start the bone. You start feeling little creaks and cracks inside your knees and you can't. You ain't got the Megan knees, y'all. You can't bend over, you can't. Yeah, it ain't none of that happen. It's just like you can't do certain stretches, like things start hurting. You just sow for no reason, so you realize that things are changing.

No, Seriously, when I got up this morning, I literally rolled onto the floor and then I was like my back Now, I'm like, okay, I need to shift the mattress because but the mattress is new.

So I don't even know. I don't even know.

What's going on, like not new as in, well that's why it's hurting your back or different parts of your body because it's new and in these be broken in.

It's broken in. It's it's been there for a while, still place where it's right now, but it's not just there.

I mean, you know, I stay in everything from an airport Marriotte to a rich Carlton to a Saint Regis like I. We are always on the road, so we all know what it feels like to travel. You feel different beds, and you get different experiences in the different beds, and sometimes you like, oh my gosh, that was the best thap in my life. Sometimes even in a nice hotel, you like, this bed is crappy. So I've experienced it all. There's no reason why at every single level I have

It's just not the same.

If it's forty five, it's very clear that it's not the same as forty.

It's definitely different, you know. And it's Taurist month.

Yes, it's still your mind.

We're approaching my birthday. You know, I'm a man of a particular age. I'm not going to say that right now.

I met a man that didn't want to.

I'm a man of a particular you know what I'm saying. I'm a grown adult man. You know, I'm reaching the midway, the midway area of the I'm reaching. I'm almost at the.

Fifth floor, almost almost at the fifth floor. Nice. I mean, listen, remember when you look like me. It don't matter. You know what I'm saying.

That boy, that boy shop. Ain't he looking you know what I'm saying. I don't look like what I've been through. But it's a blessing, man. So I'm just trying to enjoy life, you know, enjoy my month, tourist month. So many people's birthdays. I was just with my man yesterday his birthday. Shout out to Aaron his birthday like Rahiem Divine's birthday. Like it's so many people. That's Taurus. You know what I'm say, saying that the best, the best.

Happy birthday, birthday it is. It's a lot of people's birthday. The tourists, our board chair, sister friend on the islets, our birthdays, wellday, so many lot. It's a lot of people who have birthdays and that are tourists. Y'all pretty decent people. We are, I have to say, most of the tourists folks that I know, I really have. You know,

Do you realize they.

Say that they were supposed to be introducing a bill to make it illegal to speak against Israel?

Well, yeah, I mean actually I was up probably like three four o'clock in the morning and researching it because I was like, let me just make sure what I'm hearing. The internet can be very dangerous and words matter. Words are important because while I do know that based upon what they are trying what they're attempting to pass in the Congress. That it does mean that they're moving closer and closer to individuals also not being able to say

You are a vendor who refuses to.

Do business with Israel because of their policies and the genocide that's happening to the Israel, to the people, the Palacinian people.

So if you make.

If they know that that's the reason, like you might be able to get away with just not wanting to do it and saying it wasn't a good business deal.

But you cannot say I will.

Not because I'm boycotting or I do not do business with Israel.

Then you can be.

Fined and jailed, you know, for that, and then you know, beyond that. Of course, if you're a journalist and you're doing articles that talks about boycotting Israel.

And all of that.

That's what they're specifically focused on now. But it's the saying, the good old saying, once they come for them, they come for you. So it starts off with it just being about this, you know, bigger, larger entities or more organized entities, which probably includes organizations like Until Freedom who they don't want to be a part of the BDS movement, boycott the investment and sanctions.

But what eventually we.

Know is that if they start this, then it'll it'll eventually come to If you're just a person who has a large platform and you use your social media to talk about these things, you can lose your page then maybe go to jail. So that's why you have to stop it over there, and and the and the real thing is if they can do it about Israel, they can do it about somewhere else.

They can they can start saying, just like challenge the president.

People off the street because because they literally it's literally that's what they do.

Kidnap.

If they're kidnapping you for protesting with no due process, no charges or anything, and sending you out like that's crazy, it's the same process.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

Now they have this thing where like on YouTube and other places, I realize people are saying the R word. People are saying s A instead of saying.

You know, xtual assaults or eight.

I can't say it, our guess because it might trigger And eventually they're gonna probably do that with the word genocide as well.

It may already be U.

And you know, we're really moving into a space. And again this stuff is supported by both Republicans and Democrats, so you know, And and then the last vote which Bernie Sanders and a group came together to stop money from going more aid going to Israel, the Democrats, including the black ones. In fact, it was all the black ones that I saw who were in the Senate that voted for that bill right to push for or voted against stopping the aid, so they supported more money going

Man.

Both sides, both sides have very very fundamental issues. It brings me to my thought of the day, David Hogg. This is a young man who was one of the who's just a survivor of the Parkland shooting. So we know that the Parkland shooting was probably one of the most horrific acts of violence against students where students were killed, and you know, it was something that sparked a larger

A big movement.

All of a sudden, the world was like, oh man, we're coming out by the droves, by the millions against gun violence or in support of gun violence prevention and intervention.

And guess what. Here's the thing, right, here's the thing. The thing is, if we had.

Dealt with it at the time when women were raising the issue, when women of color were raising the issue.

But that was the issue, that was the problem.

They didn't like the fact that we were demanding that the movement addressed gun violence because it was happening to black and brown kids.

And of course, you know, certainly.

There had been white children who had also been shot and killed, and gun violence is.

An issue that is across the bulls, right and so.

But they did not want to deal with Pilando Castill, which was a black man who was shot to death with a gun that he told the police officer I have a gun and they's still a license carrier.

They didn't want to deal with that. They didn't want to deal with the black issues.

So they condemned us for the idea that we would ever bring gun bus And then all of a sudden, the Parkland shooting happens and white folks was out in droves.

So it is what it is.

We never want to do anything to protect other people that might also protect us.

We feel like, as long as it's happening to them, it's cool.

But okay, brings me back. Excuse me, let me get sentent on my thought of the day. David Hogg, who is a survivor of the Parkland, the Parkland mass shooting. He is also a vice chair for the DNC, and that's really important because he's a young kid. I think he's like twenty three or five something like that years old, young guy who has you know, because he became one of the voices that was organizing around mass shootings and violence and shooting in general, guns and all of that

For thirty forty years and it is time.

Let me tell you, you become not just complacent, but sometimes compromise, even when you are not trying to be like, you're not a bad person, you're not a scammer or shisty or any of that, but because of relationships you built over all of these years, because of your funders, and your position in different places and battles that you've

If they touch this, if they do this, if they do that.

So it's beautiful to watch them as they go through life's challenges and they explore and sometimes they run up on something good, you.

Know what I'm saying.

And so what happens is that compromise it or being compromised, does not always mean that you're doing something that is you know, it's an attempt to harm the community.

What it can mean is.

That you literally like just ain't got that drive to fight this issue because of all the things that go along with it. You know what happens if you stand up to Israel, They're going to label you anti Semitic. You've watched how that harmed other people's careers, So now you don't want to get into it with that.

You know that to get the police.

Or to get people to sign a or to yeh to sign a bill, or to vote positively for a bill that would hold police accountable, that's not that's kind of a situation because if you do that, then you're gonna have the unions after you, and if you don't have police support, you might not be.

Able to win in the next election.

Or you're getting money from APAC, from this place, from that place, so it can compromise you. Again, it doesn't always mean you're a bad person, but it does mean that you have been compromised in some way you need to be.

You, and you don't even have the will to fight, not even compromise right. Sometimes sometimes losing certain battles and losing a lot it makes you less. You don't have the vigor that it takes to fight. Like they say they use old men for war, I mean young men for war and old men for strategy.

Right, so them, And that's exactly right, and that's exactly what it should be because we have people, and some people are young and shouldn't be in the positions that they're in. But you should always have to fight and make sure that you show the people that you're still committed to the values that they want to see. You should not just be able to roll over in position

They did not do anything to shield the two of them.

Maybe with Jamal Bowman he did get some good endorsements.

He did.

I'm not saying he didn't Hakem endorse him. But it's not the same thing as throwing down in the district fighting for that man and standing on business.

Because if you're if.

On one hand you are over here more Zionists than the zion this, and then on the other hand you over there talking about oh I stand with.

Jamal Bowman, it's not making sense.

It's not adding up because Jamal Bowman is over here calling out the zion this for what has happened in this project that is taking place in Israel Palestine right now.

That's what he's saying. So how you doing that? It don't make sense.

So my thought of the day today is that I support the young people saying we need to push for at least a battle so that we know that you still have the will to fight and prove to us that you deserve to stay in a seat over and over and over again.

And so I think that David hog is doing the right thing.

That these young people, they are sick and tired of folks who are weak, who are compromised, who are unwilling to get up and say the thing people don't even want to stand up against, you know, against in type of police and power. We just saw it and I'm not even gonna I don't want to disrespect their brother, but we just saw somebody where we were recently when we try to talk about policing, and they want to make sure that they defend the sheriff.

Up the town.

So this is this is a mindset that these young people don't want to be involved in. And guess what what David Hogg realizes, at least this is what I think, because I didn't talk to him about it, is that if we do not do something, if we do not do something, we are going.

To lose more and more and more.

So he's actually helping the Democratic Party by saying you, I gotta help you get out your.

Own way, because people, the people is not fool. They see through it.

The people you're trying to give us as representatives, they don't have the fight that we want.

They just don't have it. And if you.

Expect us to vote, if you expect people to go out there and vote, then you got to give them candidates they want. That's the bottom line that people are rejecting that you're gonna cookie cut and you're just gonna plant you know, representatives and people for them to they just not doing that normal. And we're in a time where if you're not moving talking away that that resonates with me.

They will stay home. They show you, I will stay home, and.

People want somebody that might have came out the mud. I saw a cold argument going back and forth about this brother, Zorhan, who is running for mayor in New York City and one of my dear sisters who I just don't agree with in this. She was like, well, he's been a part of failed campaigns and he didn't do this, and he hasn't done that, and he don't know this, and he don't know that, and so we think that he's the best person for the job. You

So I got three people that.

I'm ranking off the back right because Adrian as a black woman, I think that she could bring something unique to this city that we have never had. Right, We've not had a black woman to be mayor of this city. And I just think that when you look at somebody like Tish and I understand the contributions that Kamala Harris could have made and that other black women that I know can make.

To our society.

I am I'm a proponent of pushing black women forward. So I support Adrian Adams as well. And Zorhan I'm watching him. I like Zorhan because Zorhan is keeping it real. Zorhan that everybody, well, he was part of fail campaigns. That means he know about fail campaigns, so he might.

Know a little bit about that. Guess what he might not.

He may have ideas, because they were saying other people in this chat that that Zorhan has ideas that won't work.

That's what we might need. We need people, we need we need something different.

We might need people who are willing to try something that is all off the wall to help us to get where we have to go. What people do not understand a lot of our political folks and our political operatives and other elected officials. Is that people are rejecting the same old.

Thing and they're rejecting it.

They don't want it. So guess what if Zorhan or Mike Blake or Michael Blake he can't win because he's you know, he's to this, to that he has, he didn't win his last time he ran, I mean out of heard so many things. Or Adrian, she doesn't have the support. Guess what, support them. Pour your resources in and then show up. Volunteer support, help, get on the team, get on the transition team, and.

Help these people.

But folks do not want what they have always had because it is not working. They want something different. So I guess the next idea would be run your damn self. Run yourself because she'll see it, and she'll know run yourself because you do have ideas that's outside of the box. But if you think that this cookie cutter strategy that folks have.

People don't want. They don't want it. Did we not see it in the election that we just had The people went with.

I was gonna say whatever, the people went with somebody that I think.

Is a very bad man.

Yes, because some people went with them, not everybody, but there was, there was too much of a percentage of people who did.

But in other people they are doing the thing that David Hogg is talking about. They said, you know what, y'all figure it out.

I'm gonna just go on to my couch and I'm gonna chill out until y'all decide what y'all gonna do going forward.

And that's something we cannot afford.

We have no time to play around with these people and y'all playing Parcheesi.

We need to inspire people.

The ideas need energy.

They need not people that's jaded, that's telling you we can't win. They got all the pieces.

Nobody wants to hear that.

You got to know all this stuff because guess what.

The City of New York, some of these corporations they already run every single day off of a system that's in place. And if you're half intelligent enough to hire the right people and then you have a good heart and some innovative ideas, trust me, trust me, you can make it happen. I truly believe that. I do not believe that you have to be a career politician in order to get in position and do the right things.

I think that there are people who it might be the first.

Time they ever even touched the podium, and they still they can inspire more, and they might come into the office and say, guess what, we're going to change things around. But they need to be coming from a good moral soul.

And you can tell that when you look at Africa, when you look at Ibrahem Treori, right, and you listen to him, he tells you the Mond state. He says, yeah, they'll tell you Man Kadafi did it this way, or the president of Haiti did it this way, and they're dead and this one's locked up.

We reject. We're not scared.

We understand in order to get what we want in order to change something that we might have to lose our lives, and we're willing to do that. That's the energy that we need in this moment. We don't need the old God telling us, well.

That don't work.

We tried, you see what have no.

No, we want to hear somebody saying we're going to do the right thing, regardless if we have to die doing the right thing. We're going to stand up for the people. We're going to speak the language of the people. We're going to put the laws in place that the people want that are going to benefit the people. We're not doing status quo, and we don't want nobody that's trying to tell us that we have to do status quo because we rejected.

But leading with the good moral conscious is important because some of the people that we have in position who've never done these things before, who are the ultimate whatever I was gonna say, di, but I'm not even doing that because no, you know, the ultimate disasters. They don't have a good moral soul, a good moral compass, and therefore their way of doing things, the new way is

This gotta be a joke. This has got to be a joke.

I don't even want you to run on the anti black racism line. I don't even want that. That's not what I'm looking for. That's not what I'm looking for. What I'm looking for you to do is have baked in all of your policies a way to make sure that all people are safe and not to lead black folks or students who are protesting against something that they know with their own eyes is wrong.

That's what we're looking for. So, you know, we just live in a society that's just so.

And it's like everything you say and do, the twisting of the words and the ideas, God help.

Us, God help us, it's a lot. It's a lot.

And speaking of a lot, the TMI today is it too much? Or some people might say, hey, get over it dogs on planes.

You can't stand.

I don't have a.

Problem with dogs on planes. I don't have a problem with dogs on planes. People have their dogs. I've been traveling with dogs forever. And sometimes even though I don't deal with dogs at all, I don't deal with dogs at all all. But sometimes people get on the plane a little cute dog. I look at it and I'm like, this is a cute little dog, and me and the dog be.

Like, you know, okay, you cool whatever. It's not a big deal.

Dog.

People don't generally their dogs don't bother anybody, right, But this new thing that's happening, and it's been going on kind.

Of and inchin and echin.

For a few years, and now it has become like a just I don't even understand what's going on here where people's dogs are this big big dogs, long dogs, big old, like not baby dogs that people are getting on the plane with and either stuffing them a little bit up under the seat, or the dog's face is.

Out in the aisle, out in different ways.

I was on the plane the other night where a woman fell almost to her face. People had to grab her because this couple had a dog so big that the man couldn't fit his foot in the aisle, and so his foot was kind of out and the woman tripped over his foot as she was coming down because the dog was just that big in the too this is and it.

Wasn't you know what.

Honestly, it wasn't one of the big, big, big dogs, but it was still too big to fit under the seat properly.

So the man was like.

Trying awkwardly to get his feet positioned somewhere. And I think that, you know, I think it's doing too much. But the rest of people, people might look at me and just like, oh, you're a hater, you know So what just just be unconversation. What happened to the passenger rights? Because now if you apply for a status to say that this dog is your your service dog, that you need this dog, then now that.

Just everybody is free to do what they want.

So okay, the woman and the man have the dog sitting there, the dog is halfway out. Now when it is time for us to get off the plane, they have to stand up. You know why, because there is a woman or a man whatever that is in the window.

They are in the middle and our seat and I'm in the ole seat where I always am.

So they gotta get up, They gotta get out the way because people are moving around. Now they're standing in the middle of the owl with this big dog. Who one does what is a damn cardinal's sin to me? He gets on his tail is in my because he's this long. His tail is in my aisle, and his head is the other way, and he does what dogs do. But it's a cardinal to me on my damn clothes is he starts shaking his body and getting you know, shaking himself getting up. So now his but let's just

Because this is inconvenience to me.

We're on a plane and now, all of a sudden, the new rules are which they.

Never put statements out.

I am a Diamond member, I'm in the highest level of traveling on Delta, and I have never ever ever seen an email that came out from them saying that you will now have to share space with dogs that are damned near your size. I'm not the size of Alista, a nice sized child.

It's not okay with me. It's really not.

And I don't care who gets upset because people don't feel people.

And by the way, folks feel like.

Because what she said to me, I hear all the time, and I've heard it before people got bit I've heard it before people had a bad encounter with a dog. Oh you're fine, Oh she's fine, or he's not gonna do anything too. But everybody is not comfortable with your pet. It is not a human. I don't care what you say. This is your pet, and everybody is not comfortable with that. And I notice that this is a normal prot thing that happens in spaces when somebody's uncomfortable with the animal.

We know, we I mean, we can tell from this conversation that you're not really thrilled with the dog. Tamia doesn't want the dogs on the plane, not the big ones.

I just don't.

I feel like, if that's what you're gonna do, then the people who are sitting next to you need to have They need to be informed or something that has to be more work done. Where the people are sitting next to you get the choice of whether or not they want to sit there with your big dog, and it should be somewhere on the ticket person will be next to you with a dog, a huge dog. This man had a pit ball on the plane in front of me the other day.

Huge dog, pit bull?

What in the world are we talking about?

All I know about pit bulls is not something that I'm not I'm not well. I know some people that got some beautiful pit bulls that they love, and I'm sure that's because it's different from the I gw up in.

The projects with.

But at the same time as a person who watched the pit bull bite my sister.

It used to be a people. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

It was a guy named Mikey that used to live across the street from me in the Bronx, and his dog would run out the building and we had a tire that was cooked up to the monkey balls. He had a chain and the tire and every day, no matter who was in the park, that dog would run.

Come through the park, the kids wouldrun.

He'd just run straight to the tire and hang on the tire for about forty five minutes straight, literally locked hanging in the air on to the tiger.

Locked. Yeah, it was the craziest shit I've ever seen.

And with everybody just standing around, he would lock for forty five minutes.

Well, people have been traumatized by stories that they have.

You know, I don't play with dogs. It's not my thing.

And I feel like, damn, here, I am paying whatever because Delta's tickets say it's not this not this is not the cheapest airline, right, This is an airline that charges you in comparison to the level of service that they give most of the time. Because I have I could sit here and say, well, sometimes they don't meet the level. But for the most part, my experience on Delta is decent. It could be cleaner, but it's not the worst because I've been on some other flights that oh my god.

So they charge for their service and.

I don't mind paying, even though I do mind paying, but I pay it because I want to be comfortable as much as I have to fly. But now I'm having to make myself shrink and be to accommodate somebody's pet that is not of Yorky or teacup or whatever. These daughter little what's the other one to look face that I love? Anyway, no one else cares but me. I'm sure people will tell me that I suck and I'm horrible.

No, I think, but I think.

I mean, I think this is reasonable. If somebody is paying for a ticket, right, especially you you travel in you know, good class most of the time, they should be notified that there's going to be a dog next to him. And I think if a dog is a certain size, and you should have to pay for the seat right so that the dog has his own space and an't got it like the dog can be underneath the seat by itself, nothing in front of him, not imposing itself on anybody else.

I mean, that's I agree.

The people had to come over to the man with the pit bull talking about, oh, sir, your dog's face can't be in in the aisle.

This is different people. This is the same flight.

By the way, there one big dog here and one man here. They come over to him something, your dog can't have his face and the thing and and maybe he wasn't a pit bull, but he looked like one. But I know that that might not be a thing. And maybe pit bulls are not considered to be I don't know companions, so I don't know. But anyway, he looked just like a pit bull. So they like, move your face in. He has to move his face in.

Well, the damn dog.

It wasn't that that the man was purposely just letting his dog hang out.

He can't fit. Yeah, this space is too tight for my purse.

The dog French bulldog.

French bulldog.

So we have a guest that's coming up, one of my brothers. I want you to pay attention, smart dude, cool dude, my gud. And today we have not a friend, a brother. This is one of my brothers. You know, we say the word day ones. This is my brother from back in the day one from the b D from the West Side, from Nelson Merriam, from the playground.

You know, we grew up and just watching who he's become is just amazing. You know.

In my journey in music, he was one of the closest people to me, helped me with a lot of ideas, influences.

Like you know what I'm saying.

He was always always a cool like he was always we used to call him the young man because he was so cool was He just always was one of those people, you.

Know, asking itself up.

But don't worry about we. I mean we outside you know what I'm saying, We don't look like we've been through.

Man. You know what I'm saying.

I like that. And you said day one, I will say the negative before negative negative.

Trying to figure it out. We're trying to figure it out.

We got to one and then we got we got one because of you.

Well, I appreciate that. But listen, I'm introducing you.

Don't we give me too much flowers right now, man, because you know what, I appreciate it.

Man, I love it.

My brother Harold Harry o' wilkinson, the CEO of Chase Republic College, professor entertainment, executive, martial artists, and father, and today we are joined by him to talk about his life, his legacy. His book is Beyond Words. It's the art of calculated communication. Thank you for I mean, you know something, I do this.

You know I do this for real?

Yes, you do, and I appreciate thank you for having me.

Oh, thank you for being here. The cool HARRYO. Everywhere I go, they'd be like, oh yeah, Harry, Oh, that's my guy. That's Diddy everybody you know.

That's that's really dope to hear. I was just telling somebody, people meet your reputation before they meet you. You know, your reputation shows up way before you show up, so it's really important to keep that intact. And the way you do that is just be as genuine as possible. Even though we're in this nasty entertainment business, you still just have to you know, lead with lead with a light about you have a certain level of integrity. And

They should give a little background, you know, because we got this book and we know all of these accolades and who you are now. But just give a little background on how you got here and what you want.

Well, yes, I can tell you a little bit about myself. It's sometimes the most difficult thing. Like you talk about yourself, I feel like you're bragging everything. Well, I just give you the short story of it. So I started in the entertainment business as a hip hop artist, as a rapper, right, very very young. I had a deal with Uptown Records. That's my first record deal, Uptown Records with you remember James Jones who lived in thirteen eighty.

James Jones, James Jones, Jones old school stuff.

Yeah, yeah, thirteen eighty is a building in the Bronx and an executive that lived in that building named James Jones. God bless her. So he was an executive at Uptown Records, right, and he found me. I think I was maybe eighth grade, I can't remember. And I had a development deal with Uptown Records, and that's how I first started in entertainment business.

So from the music aspect, what makes you say I'm gonna switch course like I can't, I'm not gonna do this or invest so much of my intention into being an artist.

Good question. So there's two things that happened. One, I became a father right to my daughter. But when you are in entertainment, and you love entertainment. I always loved to be a part of entertainment. It was just a natural thing to transition into behind the scenes because one of one of the things that God gave me as a natural ability which I transform into a skill, was

Yeah.

It was always the person that, like I said, he used the cool dude. He would come in and he always had something to add to something right, so he would listen. He would always he always paid attention, Like if I was doing music in the studio.

He would listen to the beat.

He'd be in his own corner and he would listen to what I'm saying and then he'll come to, you should probably make the chorus like this, or make the melody go like this. He always added something, so even Chris Light, he would see him doing that. Tone would see him do it and be like, your old needs to be around because he brought something to the table.

And he'd be like, well, I don't really like that that much.

I don't And then he started building his own relationships with that, and even so.

It morphed you know when I got locked up, because always a part of.

We had our own thing called the Problem Children, right, So we had five different personalities. Everybody had their own personality like us. Traveling was like I even get into all that. But we said we had we had a ball, like you know what I'm saying, Like we we we left the block and we just started exploring life. He was young, twenty twenty one year old kids in Miami.

Probably he wasn't.

When I was.

Two years younger, but don't guts, but what I'm saying, we were just exploring life and was always a person to listen and pay attention and add something to it. So it was me him becoming an executive and moving into that, you know, to the offices in those buildings. It was natural for me. I didn't I already seen that before it happened, you know. And then he started hanging with Joe Rode. They met on a set of

Like today, I'm a part of like Jos. Like first Jo was my brother. I always want to be Yeah, that's my brother, that's the most important element of our relationship. That's my brother. Now outside of that, my company, Chase Republic, serves as like an independent agency for him where we do a lot of different deals together. But let me just tell you a quick funny story. And I think I told this a long time ago. So when Mike was signed to Violator, like he said, I was always

That was it.

I didn't get the job.

And of course, listen, my career got derailed for some unfortunate circumstances. Who knows, maybe he had he could have went off and sell more than joh But the gentleman knew something out of all we had was us. That's all we have. I'm gonna ride with my team for every answer. That's my team. But Joe had a different machine with them, Like we had our core and our love. But Joah had Irv's mind, he had jay Z, he had d m X. We didn't have any of that in the core like d Max became came on about.

I mean, we just we never had the opportunity to have that.

We didn't.

That's what I'm saying, Yeah we did, we didn't.

But jo Joe is a generational artist, you know, he created his own side, he created his own lane. It was always competition like that when we walked into death Gym, that's what all John. So we was in competition, like you know what I'm saying. So when they built their own relationship, I know he probably laughs at that.

Yeah, because me and like me and Joe got Me and Rule are like super tight, super tight. That's that's my guy right there. And yeah, and my company does a lot of different activations for a lot of different partnerships like we do with a lot of other talent that I probably talked about today.

Well, yeah, I mean, and that's the problem in and of itself that you probably could have helped that person who interviewed you make millions of dollars, but they were so caught up in trying to, you know, do the the division competition thing. And it's because the question is disrespectful. If you know who I'm here with just to ask me that is, if you want me to show you

I'm sorry because I didn't even look at it that way gave me a Yeah, you gave me a different perspective because all these years I never looked at it that way.

They might have been just trying to see like, do you have this undying loyalty to somebody or are you willing to sit in this room and say something because.

They might need to send you to do that. You know what I'm saying.

That that's why I said to me because you're very, very very because I m wrong, But it makes it makes.

Sense because why would somebody ask me that?

Well, let me tell you why. A possible reason they could ask it. But I love your theory on it because no matter what you asked me the question, I'm always gonna ride with my team, but the other perception of it could be all right, I want to see if you can be biased. I know that's your friend. What do you know of Joe Rule and his ability in comparison to your friends? You feel like, how do you feel? Do you know your friends?

But that's what I'm saying, it's still out of pocket question because you're telling me that's like somebody you seeing Lebron and you seeing Mellow and you hang with Mellow every day and you don't watch Melo score forty fifty sixty game and then before they get to the NBA.

And they ask you, who won't be a better NBA player?

I'm not.

There's no way that I'm gonna go.

I see, okay, Lebron score forty but I know my man can score forty two, right, So I understand it that when you look now in hindsight.

You're gonna be like everybodys gonna be like, well, you know, of.

Course, hindsight is always gonna be but that's okay.

But I still just not gonna say it. It just doesn't. But let me just say this because.

You you mentioned something that I wrote down here, which is that you had an ability that you turned into a skill. These young folks need learn about this. We've been educating the last two weeks the young fulk on a lot of things, but the ability to a skill. Because some people think because they have the passion, they got the talent, they have the thing, that they also have the skill set to operate it and help and use it to make them successful.

There's a difference.

It's a big difference. Like the ability when I mentioned it in the context of God planted the ability you have what it takes to connect with people and to build You have what it takes to make a life from yourself, just from you. I planted that within side you. The skill is now you have to work at that. You have to work at what the ability I gave you. You may have a talent to play basketball, you have the ability, but you have to work at your skill.

Yeah, but sometimes we take too long to figure it out, and then that's when you end up because sometimes you you might also use your abilities and make them a skill set for the wrong things.

Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, No, It's is like you know, I used to watch cartoons like this power. If you have it in your hand, you can use it for good or use it for evil. Not to get so spiritual, but that's when you have to have all right, you have to have some type of faith now to keep you on the right track of with this ability of skill. Because yes, to go back to the book right the art of calculator communication. When you hear the word calculated, people may think manipulative or this

So it's like it's like when I tell people the difference between a hustle and a drug dealer. A drug dealer can only sell drugs. A hustle can sell anything. Yes, And it's all in the mind frame. Yes, Because when you look at jay Z, when you look at fifty cent, when you look at cash money, you look you watched drug dealersansform into hustlers. They realize, Oh, I'm just changing

And everything you want to do in this life. You already have everything you need inside of you. You just have to find.

It's like to get for talking all the time. That's all she did was talk for real.

That was always Now now you're the voice for the voice list. You understand you the voice for the voice list. Everything you need to go, wherever you want to go is already em bettered inside of you.

Right.

You just have to find that and harness that and work towards it. Is a term of hope on the messagelized world of self actualization, right is reaching the highest level of yourself, the highest level of understanding you. And that's something I talk about in the book. As far as your intra personal intelligence. Your InTru is how you see yourself? How do you feel about yourself? What do

So tell us about your book. I'm really interested in, first of all, how you came up with the concept for the books and somebody help you or was it your own idea?

And then what was your writing process?

Yes, I can answer all of that, So let's start with the writing process.

Yes, I can answer all because he's a professor.

Yes, I'm a college professor, so we're going to start there. I'm a college professor. I've been teaching communication courses for over twelve years. Right, different levels of communication, So as a college professor, I started to understand communication on different aspects. When you ask someone how do you define communication? Right, I always ask the class. That's the first thing I asked,

Even your father's Mexican.

Won't even know it.

It's an interesting conversation though, because I've been asked by a number of people to chime in on Fat Joe and other Latino at Latina brothers and sisters who use the N.

Word right Like.

People are like, oh, you're not upset, and I'm like, it's hard because I grew up in the projects in Harlem and my neighbors were Dominican and Puerto Rican, and then you know we First of all, I didn't have anybody around me at that young age that was African or like getting deeper into the black race. I was more connected to people who were of Latin descent.

Than African, right I was.

I mean, you know, now I have a total different It's kind of like flipped a little bit.

I'm much more.

I have more relationships with African Caribbean Nathum race individuals.

But at that time that.

Wasn't the case, and so we all had the same exact vernacular, like we all we spoke the same. Now, only thing that was different is that like if I you know, my family, they were very Southern. So the folks that our building, the Poppies and mommy, they didn't talk. They didn't have that Southern thing. And then of course I didn't speak Spanish, you know what I'm saying. So I get why some people would have an issue with it because they want to say black only black black

Absolutely, like you said the key word vernacular right right, And you make my point. And this is what I try to get the young people in my class to understand. Vernacular is a form of as a language, right, that language it really you got to hear me on this language does not have it's not race base. Language is learned, you learn, you can learn language vernacular. So we are growing up in the same environment. We have the same vernacular,

It's just my best friend. So this is we had the same exact words that we said.

Every right, you understand now, and you called him that, which is also a thing.

This has to be clear. I'm not saying that it's right that we're not saying yeah, I'm just saying that whoever might be trying to kill us, I'm not saying it's right. I'm trying to make the distinction to understand what culture is culture culture versus race, and why that's important to how we connect and how we communicate.

Because I don't know, I don't agree that it's right for us to use it either. So it's I'm not trying to make excuses for anybody. But we always say on this show that we are well, yeah right, We always say because we're not perfect individuals, and we always say that we live in contradiction that you know, we can we can say free Willy and know that Willy's supposed to be in jail because of the stuff that Willy.

Done did right, like, but we want our friend to be free.

But when we sit down and think about it, like, boy, WILLI was a problem, you know kind of we live in we are walking contradictions. Every day we eat the food we know is killing us, you know what I'm saying. We go to the places where and shot with people who we know they don't care nothing about our community.

So we are walking contradictions.

But we have to try to have a majority, a majority of sound mind to say we're not gonna just let any damn thing happen in our community. Absolutely, and white folks can't be saying in word, that's it, that's it, that's it.

Understand like I said, it's just it's just a thought process for you to understand, like as I pertained to the book, just to understand what culture and races and knowing that it's not the same so I know how to communicate and deal and connect because I can't assume anything because of how you look. I can't assume that. I can't assume that me and you have the same lifestyle because we look like no, no, no, we may not.

We may not.

So I have to as you may have heard the saying, I have two ears in one mouth, so I'm listen twice as much then I speak, so I could learn who you are, then I can connect with you.

So yeah, So give us something that's in this book that you think is paramount, that is a key element of communication, an example of something.

It's so much.

That's how I am When people ask me, what is the part about your book that surprises people the most, I'm like the book.

It's a whole book. It's so much right, But there's a couple components that I touched on first. I want to mention one thing, right, So in the back of the book, I talk about calculated communication and how it pertains in my business. How Chase Republic, my agency has partners with the Brooklyn Nets partnerships with the WNBA partnerships. How did you get these partnerships? You are independent mail, black mail, small company, how did you get these partnerships.

You're intentional about when you walk in the States.

Well, let's say this, right, in any room you walk into, if it's ten people in the room, at least two people can help you advance. If it's ten in any room, at least two people in a room of ten can help you advance. This ability and skill is finding out who those two people are, because you're not.

The Jamilitary Davis model, right, not.

Walking up to him with a clipboard like, hey, so what do you do you do this? No, it's ten people in them. So any room that I walk into, I say, all right, I need to walk out of here with something. I need to walk out of here with something.

Like Denzel said, I'm.

Leaving with something. I'm leaving with something. So even if I'm getting ready for like a networking event, like you know how sometimes you don't want to go out, I'm like, all right, let me go to this thing, let me go to this dinner. As I'm getting there, I say, I'm leaving here with something. I'm leaving What am I leaving with? Who's here? Who's at the o? Temika's at the dinner. My song's at the dinner. All right, I know a little bit about my song. I'm not going

All right, how was.

It being a soccer dad. I'll tell you how it's being a dance Da soccer dad, dance that soccer d dancer. Ah'll be laughing, joking. Next you know, me and my song is doing great business. But it's strategies to get there. You gotta get the book, so you.

Get the book for the strategy.

To get the book for the strategy.

Next time you come, make sure you bring me a small sweatshirt so they don't want to together.

I don't want no extra small, so you don't want to fish small. I can't even fitish small.

But it just feel bad that you brought me a medium or that wasn't effective community cast.

I needed you to bring both sides so that I would.

Have to take you something because I actually I was in the inventory. I was looking for small, but I found like a bunch of mediums. I'm like, all right, let me just grab this medium.

Nah, I appreciate it so well. Now I'm at least in the loop. Everybody had this stuff. I had nothing.

No I got you. I'll make sure I take it.

You know, it's so much more that we can talk about. But people should get the book.

You know.

I find myself on my book tour just talking through everything and feeling like these people are even going to read it. But it does encourage folks because they're like, oh, no, I have to get into the pages. But I do want people to pick your book up. How can they get the book?

First of all?

And then are you out like speaking and touring? Is that something that you're open to do? If somebody's listening in they're like, oh, I need this type of person to come and speak at my school or teach a class or whatever.

Well, first answer to the question, you can pick up the book on Amazon. You can go to Amazon and the search engine and just put in It's Beyond Words by.

How with Wilkerson?

Now your real name.

Harold Wilkerson. Yeah, I couldn't put because I'm not saying everyone knows me, because some people are going to watch like, who the hell is this guy?

Right?

And that's fine. But for the people that do know me, they know Harry O. They have no idea that I'm a college professor. They have no idea that there's Harold Wilkerson that is a whole other person. So I'm introducing the world to well, to the people that don't know Harold Wilkerson, I'm introducing them to Harold Wilkinson. So you can get the book on Amazon. Now to your second question, speaking engagement to talk about the book, Yes, I'm open

Voice all through there.

So I said, all right, I could be behind the scenes still and be Harry O. Harold is executive, but I need to leave a piece of me here. It's nothing better than leaving your mind here, right, So that's why the books.

We got to get out here, Go and get this book. It's beyond words. The Art of Calculated Communication by Harold Wilkeson.

Harold, I'm impressed, and I don't be saying I'm impressed.

What I was saying is I know mice for a very long time. I know his intelligent level, I know his integrity, I know all these things. You have an association where we've been around a couple of times. But I also know your level of intelligence. I pay attention to it. So as I was coming here, I'm like, all right, I know how I know Mice, right, I said, But sitting across to me, I gotta bring my a game.

This is different. It's my job. Yeah, exactly.

Job, I said. I had to prepare myself because I'm sitting next you to me, and that's why I wore the jacket. She might like the jacket, I said, she might like the jackets. I'm with the jacket.

I appreciate the reference.

I appreciate the appreciation, but you know, when it all gets down to the nitty gritty of it all, I'm just a regular human girl from Harlem, just like you. So I can have any conversation. You call me and say the ignorant stuff and we can argue about that, or we can talk about the business. But one thing I would say, or I will say, is that, for the most part, even an ignorant conversation, I'm always trying to find the importance of like.

Where are we going with this? What are we talking about? Because we're not voting for Trump? So I get it. We can joke if we can lab but we're not voting for Trump. That's that's it.

Absolutely, I want to ask something because you said something. It's in my book too, as far as calculated cammunication. Right, So, say, if a person is coming to talk to you and say they have to give up their A game and they're a little bit nervous, I'm talking with Tamika, and I have this in my book. The thing to do is I have to sit across from you and find that girl from Harlem. I'm not I'm not talking to

Messing yourself, messing yourself.

You're going into the You're going into this game with the wrong strategy. Yes, just as a meeting with jay Z, you're having a meeting with this dude from Brooklyn, that's who you're meeting with, and you a guy from the Bronx, like he's a dude from Brooklyn. If I go in there with his perception in my mind, I'm at a disadvantage. I lost.

But let's just be clear, because people listen to every word and they will take exactly what you're saying and apply it.

Don't go to the meeting with jay Z talking ma, yo, what's up? Yo? Are you doing?

Yo?

That's not that.

But you know in a small because listen, when you look at jay Z circle right, when you look at Wan right, Wan is the most authentic person he still but he ain't saying Yo, what I'm just saying. Wan was having a regular conversation with him.

I get that.

This is what what I'm saying, just to his point, right to his point was.

Yan ain't no executive heard the nigga from the streets that met with Jay and treated him like yo, what's up? And they and instead and when I talked to me and Wong got this same. That's the way his communication is authentic all around the boarder.

I don't disagree, but I think there is a difference because some.

People try.

And You're absolutely right. So like the point I'm making, like as far as in with the book, No, you're not going to go in there and be unprofessional, but if you're going to this meeting with this figure, to prepare yourself for this meeting, don't think about them as the person you've been listening to their albums and watching their videos, don't think about them that way. I need to find who you are inside that I relate to. Okay, yeah, I'm not jay Z. I didn't sell a million brothers.

Yeah, I got to read the book because what about the people who don't want to be reminded that they're from the projects and it's just the regular person.

But no, here's the thing they don't want to be.

You're gonna talk about it.

You're not talking about it all it's in my head. It's all right. So my last example, I'm sorry. I had a friend I'm not gonna mens his name. He was dating a movie star, big movie star, and he was like, yo, about to go out to eat ya. You're nervousness and this and that. So I would say, listen, stay off her Instagram, don't watch any of her movies, don't do that. He's like, wow, I said, because you're talking to the perception of the person. I said, when

She already likes exactly.

You got a phone number, she already likes you. So but if you study, if you're sitting there watching TV looking like, oh my god, hearing everything on the radio about her, you may go add it at a disadvantage. So in your head, you gotta suppress that idea of them. I'm just talking to a girl from Harlem. That's not to me it.

I love it, I love it, I love it.

The next thing, you know, she's.

Like, oh, I love you.

So it's so cool to be around. Like, yeah, I know, calculator, calculator, calculator.

You gotta pick up the book for it, the bookcase. I know what y'all gonna say about that last comment, but you know.

It's called games.

Actually, I got to say something that it's not to be manipulative.

You said that already.

It's it's because a man natural nervousness with a beautiful woman. I don't care what men tell you. They're going to have a natural nervousness around a beautiful woman. So how do you suppress that nervous How do you prepare for the game?

You gotta you gotta visions Like she got a book in her nose. You know what I'm saying. She got a booking like everybody.

Looking got a book. Ends up.

He's right, you just farted.

Just come on, man, she fought. Yeah, I love you. Shout out to my brother.

Wilson make sure you go get that book on Amazon. It's a dope book. He's a dope dude. I love you.

Thank you so much for comment.

Thank you for having me appreciate it.

And I'm going on shout out to my brother Harrio. You know, I can't wait to read the book.

Very smart.

Man.

Watch.

I watched him just grow like literally from the sand box second and third grade.

We was in elementary school together, you know. I mean, well, he.

Went to the Catholic school, but we went We lived right down the block from each other, you know, and he was actually one of the first people rapping on the block when you know, he was the kid that was rapping. I got into it later than everybody else, and I just, you know, catapulted. So when I first got into it, he was like one of the people I'm gonna getting old to come with us, you know.

Yeah, he was very smart and he seems very intentional about how he lives his life, so that's a good thing. It was really, you know, it's refreshing. A lot of people like to say, well, where are the black men that do X, Y and Z. There's many, you know, and they're not all trolls and podcasters who are spewing stupidity.

There are many.

More young men and men grown men like HARRYO and yourself and others that we respect. So I found his interview to be very informing, and I found him to have something unique.

Yes, it's beyond words. It's the art of calculated, calculated communication. So you go get that book. And that brings me to my I don't get it because this is a perfect segue. We're talking about strong, real good men, right, And I had I've seen a post the other other day from Plies and Plots was like, don't matter how much you try, you can't make a fuck nigga real in it. It don't matter. It just it ain't gonna work. You could do, you could say, you could do whatever

So for my I don't get it today. It's in the realm of that. Right. There are women who are having babies.

With fuck niggas, right, and some of them and some of them is not all fuck niggas, but some of them are fuck niggas. They are having babies with men who have no intention of taking care of their kids. They just don't want the kids, like women are having sex with them, people engaging sexual activities. They just wanted the sex. And then the women gets pregnant. She goes to the man who says, I want nothing to do

But when you do that with a fuck nigga, he's going to do a fuck nigga. Shit, Oh god, it's fuck nigga.

That's what's gonna happen. So what I'm saying is when you are having a baby with a man who has no intention of taking care of a baby, I think that it's a disservice to the child because what happens is there's a child that grows up thinking that they're not wanted. Right, that there's a child who now they have to know that the father who created them never

That child and you have to protect the father.

No, it's not protecting the few.

When you say I'm not gonna let the baby know. I don't know how else can you let a baby know? When a baby says to you, what happened to my dad, there's no way for you to not let them know. Your dad chose not to be involved in your life. So when you say, even.

I would I not say that.

That's because why should I say?

Because I think it harms the child.

But it doesn't matter. The father is a part.

Of the harm, but the mother should not be carrying of all the harm.

But it's not. The mother is not carrying the burden of all the harm.

Right if I'm trying to protect my child, right, if I if me this is me protection of my child. Right If somebody comes to me, if my child is an artist and they rap, and somebody says, your.

Child is terrible, the word fucking rap, because I.

Want you to understand, So let me say it.

So let me say it first, because the world might understand. You might not get it. Let me say it to the world can get it.

If somebody comes with my child sings and they hear my child sing and they come to me and say your child is terrible, I don't want nothing to do with it. He's horrible, and child comes to me and asks me, what did they say about me? Singing, I'm not telling them that they say you horrible. I'm gonna say they just don't worry about that. We're gonna go I'm not I'm not going to take my child's pride.

I'm not going to take their self worth.

I'm not going to diminish their confidence because I want to be honest with them, right And that's not me. And so when I'm making a comparison, if the father, you and the father never had a relationship with anything, and the father said I want nothing to do with that child, fucked that child. But whatever he says, however harsh,

Who are you?

Who do you think that you are protecting when you if you tell a child, you don't even involve that information to the child. You decide to raise the child independent and your father passed away whenever I'd rather protect my child.

Yeah, I don't think that that's protecting the child, because what happens is later on in life when kids find out the truth, they have resentment towards both parents, and particularly the parent who lie.

And so I think.

That the whole premise of everything that you're saying is very troubling because the start of it comes from people not having particularly unprotected sex and we've discussed this before, or having sex at all. If we know that sex leads to babies, and so if we are having sex and a man is engaged in that, then he has to be responsible for the risk of what he's doing, just like the woman has to be responsible for the risk. Those risks are not just babies. Those risks are sometimes

This is about the other person who is.

Responsible for them being born for their life. So when a person, a child that's three or four or five years old, says to you, well, mommy, I see daddy. I see this one has a dad and that one has a dad. Why don't I have a dad? The appropriate thing that I would do is to say, listen, mommy, and the people whatever village, we love you very much. As you get older, I will explain more to you about your dad, But for now, I want you to focus on you and me. You know, this family and

Tell them the whole story.

You know what, I don't know. I don't know. I don't just damaging my sign.

Let me tell you something. And when I say tell them the whole story, let me finish my point. Okay, First of all, these seven or eight year olds are not like the seven and eight year olds back then. Okay, you have children that are extremely intelligent, and most of the people I know, even my granddaughter at two years old, I'm like, bro, where did you get how do you

Like, I don't even know where she got that from.

At two, Usually they'll just go for the food because they see it there and they assume it's you know, it's good.

And then then once it's in their mouths.

We already knows these parents I have is out their minds. Let me protect myself by feeling on top of it to make sure whether or not it's cool.

This is a two year old. So by the.

Time she is seven or eight, I have sat with I have friends, we have friends who have seven eight nine year old kids that are smarter than some of the adults.

That we know.

Okay, so let's just be clear. What I said was tell him the whole story. So you know what, your father and I we got together. We really did not have a relationship, We didn't really even.

Know one another.

But on a fun day or a fun night, we got together and we made you and your father made it clear that this is not what he wanted, and he left and that's it. That child might be hurt and it might be feel like rejection. But I had a good friend of our sadip Reental, said that she told another young person recently. Life is full of disappointing moments. There's things that hurt. There are things that will make you feel good, but there's more stuff sometimes that.

Make you feel defeated.

Right, and so you need to be able to deal with your true circumstances, whatever that is, at the point that you can understand and ask the questions that are necessary for you for you to just know who you are.

But there are a lot of but I think when you look at a situations like that, there are a lot of quote unquote women who have daddy issues based on those situations because they've been abandoned.

Right, Yeah, but it's more.

But I promise you, and I don't know the stats on this, because you know, we can't speak to what we don't know. We've never done in numbers, but I bet you that there are more kids that have daddy issues from two things. One not understanding, not knowing, and not having somebody who's willing to help them work through it, so that's therapy, and also being able to speak freely about the issue.

I bet you it's that.

And then the other one that daddy issues develop from is having the type of mother or adult who wants to use it as a weapon that when they say it to you, they like, well, I don't know your daddy didn't want you.

He just didn't want you. That's not what I'm talking about.

I am not saying that anybody should use their words, use the tongue as a weapon against the father to a child. I think that is wrong. I don't ever think that it should happen, even with all that Jason and I went through, when my child to today and I are talking about him and I am telling him about stuff that happened that wasn't good, and it's things in this book, and I live to tell the story

So I'm not sitting here saying that.

You should not try to make sure that your kids understand a full picture. And just because you know, some of these girls would just be like, I don't know your daddy won shit. So that's just it that I don't think is okay, and I think that does create issues with mental health challenges for our youth. But I cannot protect you, or the child or anybody else because guess what, I, as a woman or she as a woman, is a human person too. So the idea that I have to.

Defend you raise you, I'm not talking about.

I'm not saying you as a father, I'm saying the child I have to defend you, raise you, feed you, you know, support you do all of these things.

I'm already doing all of that.

Unfortunately, I don't believe, or maybe whatever, I don't believe that the mother should also have the responsibility when two people made a decision to lay down together understanding that pro creation is the whole point of sex in the first one.

That's not what everybody understands.

We need to teach that.

Okay, But I'm just I'm just, but I'm not. I'm not dealing with hypothetical. I'm dealing with reality, because.

That's the problem, my son.

The problem is that the hypothetical is what men in many situations has made the reality. The reality is that sex produces children.

But that's what I'm just saying.

I'm not saying it doesn't. So what I'm saying is this, The reality is there are fuck boys, there are men who are have If they don't have a connection with you, they have no connection with a child.

And if a.

Woman understands that, conceives a child with a man who looks dead in her face and said I want nothing to do with you or this child, right, and then have the child and then try to still impose that on the man that said he wasn't going to do anything. I don't think it's not a smart decision. Well, I just don't think it's smart, and me personally, I don't think it makes sense.

I would never put my child in the hands of a person who has said I don't want them. I would never because I'm not going to leave my child in a situation with somebody who does not love them or look at them as you know, their own and something that they want to be.

A part of.

But I still do not believe that one I should not, as you've already said that. One that it means that I should just walk around and not feel a way, because yes.

I supposed to do. I absolutely do.

And I am not protecting or and shielding you or are our child from the truth.

The truth is the truth.

And at the point that I believe my child is mentally capable, which means that they are smart enough and they his answers, I can't say that. I can't say that because guess what when these mean ask God, dang on, children start saying crazy things to you on you don't have no daddy at least this and that the third

Because the worst thing.

Is to be looking at the door and thinking maybe he's gonna come, or looking at situations of thinking, well, maybe he'll show up. You know what you need to know early on, don't look for him because he ain't gonna be here. He does not want to be a part of helping to raise you and being a part of your life. You need to know that you don't need to be thinking about any when I turned nine.

You've seen situations where women have reached out to fathers who've never been there, right and seeing it online, I'm saying no, but I'm saying, but those things happen, and I think they deal with a lot of trauma.

When they still get rejected.

But based so you done told me that's my father, I'm reaching out to him. He told me he never want none.

But I don't know if I'm.

Telling him at not As seven eight nine years old exactly who the person is. But there are some kids that will next by the time they're twelve, they'll be like, well, what is my father's name? At that point, it is that child. Listen, let me tell you something. My son life is full of freaking disappointment.

I hear you, but I just my personal So what do you.

Think that what would you tell your child? I don't know what I would tell you exactly, and.

You know why, you know it because because there's nothing to say but the truth.

But I don't know what to tell my child.

But I know that I would not want a child that I have to feel unwanted just and that's why it don't matter what if my child was around and this was my child, I would have to take care of my child because it's no way that I would produce a child that I'm not going to take care of my child.

That's just as a man. Sp No, but I hear what you're saying, But that's just as a man.

But there are some there are some men or males who don't have that connection. They don't have that sense of responsibility. And I'm saying if I just don't understand if a woman knows that she's dealing with that level of an individual, and she conceives as child. Regardless, how do you expect him to change? How do you expect to now impose? Okay, he has to be, because that's not a reality.

I am not going to argue with you about what you can or cannot do with THEE or whatever, because I'm not of the mindset that we're supposed to force people to do things that they don't want to do. And believe me, there was a time when I was probably thirty three, thirty two and below that I did

You should be here.

Even when people stay, they stay with something in them that doesn't really want to be there. So that to me is I don't ever want that. I don't want to force and beg anybody at all, kids or not to do or be in my life. So I'm saying that I hear you on that. It does not mean that I'm not still gonna be angry. It does not mean that I'm not gonna still maybe need to get some therapy for even a.

Bad decision that we made.

I didn't make a bad decision by myself, and nobody can sit here and tell me that the way to solve this, this this outcome of a bad decision that we made, is for me to be the one to put my life in danger to go lay on a table when I might not wake up. I didn't say that, you said that. I'm just saying you said. That's what I'm saying. Words are very important in that whole thing

You can get out of.

Once you're pregnant, which now means you having sex with a fuck boy because knowing that when we have sex, we can have a baby. That is where the problem starts from the beginning. It definitely, and I think that if we teach that as a reality versus a hypothetical that we're having.

You, if you're having sex with somebody that you don't even understand their core values, right, If you just and you have an unprotected you you.

Allowing sex in general, sex in general, and.

You don't understand their core values and you don't realize that this person is a stand up individual that's going to take care of his business and has honor and integrity. If you are having sex with someone and you don't know those things, or if you have sex and you did and you said fuck all that, I just want to have sex with them, then that that in itself is a problem.

Well it's I mean, no, no, it's a real problem. You are one hundred percent right. All I'm simply stating is that I'm simply stating that that's not a one person or the other. It's also knowing, right, and it's when you have mastery of self, which is something that we all had to learn and we get better and better at it as time goes on, but it's not easy for a twenty year old so on and so forth, when we have children that were like, damn, you know cool.

I'm not your guy at all. I don't even want to have nothing, nigga.

Is now when you go have sex with that guy and get pregnant, and then you said, yo, you got to step up and you need to be a father. That's an issue for you.

Yeah, but it's all but you.

But okay, so I agree with you, but I need it to be an issue with you for two. What I see and we and you and I argue about this all the time. So we're going to just leave this alone. And I'm not going to say another word. You got the last word show, I don't get a segment.

He nothing was in common, nothing, nothing, but he.

Was using her for sex, So you can't be mad when she now wants to use you for money and clout.

Everybody's using each other.

So what people need to do is and maybe he did the thing, so let me be careful about that because he might have did the thing that she said which makes her feel like she deserves whatever. Fine, I'm not sure, we don't know what we gonna find out, but nonetheless, still you put yourself in that situation by messing with this child in the first But I don't care what nobody says, teenager, it's a child at nineteen.

Okay, So now.

You I want you to listen to how your mindset goes to how a woman should protect herself, because I guess you're saying the baby is her baby, so she's the one when she verses, she gotta take care of it, so you should be more careful. I get that, but just imagine what comes back to us and the karma that we deal with as a man who has a child walking around in the world that does not have his father.

I'm not sure who gets it worse.

The mother who ends up taking care of the baby and doing the things that she needs to do to raise a decent at least human or the father who was honest that he didn't want it and he ends up with a child that he's not taking care of. I want to know who is going to have a better story when they get to the gates and have to have a conversation with their Lord.

Well, I mean, if we talking about the lord, then we're not That's what I'm trying to say. It's not about right, wrong, good or bad. It's about the common sense. And that's all I've always broke it down to. Like I'm not saying, it's just like when I said, a girl walks down the block and she's naked and somebody rapes her, she's not responsible. Nobody should rape her. But we still got to understand that they all rapists out

That ain't, and.

You're still holding them to this criteria, it's like, I don't understand that.

I just don't. I don't, and I don't think it benefits the child.

I think that it's something that you that the mother has personally made a decision, that you made a decision that regardless of how it affects you or this child, that this is how you're going to go about it, and and when you're dealing with somebody on the other side that don't give a fuck at all, like how does it benefit you?

I don't think it benefits anybody. But I just tell you one thing I.

Am learning, and also I was saying, is this, if a woman you don't many men have made babies that they don't know nothing about, or a woman decided and they wanted a child, and women wouldn't decided I'm not having no baby. Never said nothing to them or probably told them I'm not having a baby. Men deal with the same shit all the time. We've had to. We've had to deal with situations where women terminated prayer. I know a nigga that begged the woman to have his

You know that I talk a lot, So I said that I wasn't gonna say anything else, but I'll tell you what I do need to say. It really just amplifies the idea that God made us to need one another like we have to have. It's no way for us to do what you're talking about without both of us being involved in this decision. So it's a lot of us as women who say we don't need men. It's a lot of men walking around here like, oh, these chicks, I don't care. I saw of the man

Crazy as hell. But nonetheless that's what he said.

But Rose walking around with the roads, I don't.

First of all, I don't have a role, I said walking around, But I don't know you walking around.

Mind.

If you ask me questions, I'll.

Bracking out. I'm telling you, but I ain't worked the roads.

So but anyway, I'm just saying I would never sit here and say that any sex toy that I have ever had in my life was better than Okay, I guess it is. I'm saying I don't okay, So all I'm I'm just I'm just saying to you that from God's perspective, you don'e got me.

This show has put me in my spiritual bag. Okay.

Started with Harrio. From God's perspective, there is no way, no way at all for us to fulfill what it is that we are supposed to be doing, which is to bring forth life and bring forth fruitful life without one another. So we ought to try to find a way to get past some of this he and she and what you did and what I did, and what this and that, and just know that we better figure it out and we should stop taking advantage of or not being conscious of what it is that we're doing with our bodies.

So that's it, and I mean our with us too, And believe me.

I will continue to tell women, I don't even know why you slept with Bruh, because you know, Brauh ain't nothing.

I told you that when I met him. You know what I'm saying. But y'all need to be telling men, Bruh stop laying down with these women. And you know you don't want to take care of your kids because you could do a lot of things in life.

You could sell some dough, You might be able to even hurt somebody, right, And I don't agree with any of that. I'm just saying you could do a lot of things, but not taking care of your children. That is something that you will never ever be able to live down.

What I'm saying, and I believe you agree. But there's some men who don't give up.

Well, they will when they look up and figure out that the rest of their whole life trouble with.

It's men who haven't took kid a child, and their life is perfect.

Thinks you just don't know based.

On the success and everything they live success what.

You told me earlier. Success don't equal everything does sometimes, But I'm trying to successful sick. You could be successful mentally ill, you could be successful lonely.

You could be successful stupid.

It's people's true in their mind, in their mind. But but the some of the bad people think they're winning and they don't because guess.

What, It's true.

There are bad people who win, don't We see that People die go to their grave with stuff that you know they did, or people they harmed or whatever, and they never really it never really appears that they paid

That's a rough one. I don't believe in that.

But anyway, thank you, good conversation, y'all. Give us your feedback on this.

I know this is gonna be one of those controversial topics, and that's why I wanted to talk about it because I've been seeing it going on. You know, they had this situation with Anthony Edwards and his baby mother and there's been a lot of back and forth above that. So I just was giving a perspective with the mother of his child. But that was that, and that brings us to the end of another episode of TMI. Make sure you follow us on Instagram TMI undersc Underscore Show.

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