That's how we are. Once again, we have another one of our friends were I wouldn't even say friends, our sister, our comrade, conflicts, our partners in justice, Tiffany Dina Lofton. She is the immediate past national director of the n double A CP Youth in College. She's also one of our biggest advisors that until freedom, and she's the senior advisor at Grassroots Law Projects. Welcome to the show. Finally, Dina, I don't even call it Tiffany, I call it Dina.
What's going on? I can't believe you haven't been on our show. That's like crazy, Like I thought you were one of the first. We had all of Stephen Green, Leslie Redman, we had all of our um young leading organizers on at one point. I had no idea that you had been with us. But I guess today is the right time. Today is the day. Today is the day slow, It's day we've been working out here. So
I'm just honored to be on the show. And even if I'm not on the show, I with y'all in person, so and I've met I've done better at that, And I think that's what it is. You with us so much that we assume that you on the show. You know what I'm saying, Like Tiffany been there. I thought you was a three pot times I was with y'all on the studio, I just wasn't on the screen. But here we got here, Like Tiffany is the show, you are the show. You are the work. Thank you, sir,
thank you, thank you. You know as much as we love you, and we we we you know, we could do a little small talk all the time. Right now, we have serious business and you here to give us some updates, you know about brother Julius and um, what's what's currently going on? And I've here there's a lot of little things going you know, some negative, some were positive as of late. So give us some updates. So I'm gonna start with this top headline. Elections are so
damn important, y'all. Elections are so damn important. So, uh, today is Thursday. We're on Monday. I flew from Washington, d C. To Oklahoma City anticipating Julius's clemency hearing that was going to take place at nine am. When I landed around nine pm on that Monday, I got my phone was blowing up telling me that the coming to hearing had been postponed, and I was trying to figure out why. In two thousand and fifteen, the state of
Oklahoma halted all of its executions. It is that it is one of the deadliest states, and I think it's the second, but it's one of the deadliest states in um when it comes to the death penalty. There were a couple of botched executions that took place in What that means is and so I need people to breathe. This is really howvy to talk about. What that means is that they issued two executions through lethal injection, but the cocktail of the lethal injection didn't work and so
people suffered before they died. So Oklahoma stopped the executions in twenty five. Team Julius is one of seven people. Julius Jones is one of seven people who is now scheduled on death row to be executed between now, which was supposed to be today, with the first being John, a gentleman named John Grant, until March of next year. There are seven people on that list and that roster. The state of Oklahoma is now saying we're just going
to continue these executions. Nothing has happened since until now they're just saying we want to continue them. But they went to these seven people on death row and said to them, if we can't do the legal injection because it doesn't work, how else do you want to be killed? M hm wow. Six out of the seven of them said, f you. You're not going to make me choose my way to commit suicide. And it is actually against my religious beliefs to commit suicide. So I'm not giving you
that that that that easy way out. On September, the Pardoning Parole Board, who are people appointed by the governor and the governor is selected by the people. They passed a decision and recommendation to the governor basically saying, keep Julius alive with the possibility of roll, don't kill him. We have evidence that that proves that he could be innocent. Now, the partner of rollboard is not a court or jury.
It's just a partner of role board. So only power that they the only power that they have is to issue a recommendation to the governor. The governor looked at that recommendation and said, I'm not going to make this decision. Y'all go back and have an entire hearing and do it again. There's a couple of reasons why he could
have did that. My personal belief is he's been too much of a punk to make a decision when he could easily at any moment in time sign a piece of paper stopping this entire process and freeing Julius and making sure he's home for the holidays. The governor has not done that yet. He keeps putting the blame and trying to redirect it so the partner of role board can now have that responsibility. He does not want to make that decision. So a lot of stuff has happened
since then that we can talk about later. But where we're at right now is because of because of the protest that those seven p people took. Excuse me, six out of the seven people took saying don't kill me. I don't want to be killed. You better figure this out. There was a lawsuit on the state of Oklahoma that went to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court said, go
ahead and continue with the executions. Since they don't since they didn't find another way, they didn't didn't tell us how else they want to be killed, go ahead and do lethal injection. Then we were worried about that, and so then we found out that the Tenth Circuit, because it got challenged, the Tenth Circuit, which is the regional court of that area that which Oklahoma is a part of, said no, no, no on all y'all acting crazy over
there in Oklahoma, no execution stop it. This has been a this has been a game, and it's been really hard as somebody who's organized just supporting the local members on the ground, supporting the family, both Antoinette Jones and uh mom I called Mama Jones, but Madeline Jones, Mama Jones, and their brother and their dad, and especially Julius who's been on death watch for over a week listening to these different reports come in at any point in time,
Am I gonna get killed? I'm not gonna killed, You're gonna kill me, I'm not gonna kill me. It's been an emotional rold coaster for the family, for the community, and especially for Julius. Where we're at right now is because that Tenth Circuit said, don't kill nobody. The Attorney General he has now tried to challenge that decision of the Tenth Circuit court and we are waiting for that response because of that challenge from the Attorney General General O'Connor.
Today was October. There was a gentleman by the name of John Grant was scheduled to be executed. Today he is on pause. Julius Jones. He has a set execution day for November eighteen. Because that ted circuit said no one more executions. November eighteenth has been canceled. That is a victory, but it's not the long term victory. We want Julius to be free. Right If the November eighteenth is canceled, he stays in prison for the rest of
his life. The only two opportunities we have right now to say Julius and get him home is one again the General has excuse me, the Governor has to sign the permission for him to be released, not just on his own accord, but his own board. His partner in parole board said this is the right thing to do, so he should sign that and go with their recommendation. Or Julius has a scheduled hearing, the clemency hearing that got rescheduled on November one, which is this coming Monday.
We need that clemency hearing to happen so that Julius can tell his story for the first time, so that people can so that we can hear what his alibi, what he was at home with his family when the murder happened. We have to be able to have the witnesses and the information and the stuff that was not shared the first time twenty one years ago, when Julius had his first case and his attorneys didn't have any experience running a capital murder case or dealing with anybody
on death row. We are calling for November one to happen. For that hearing to take place, we need the Governor's Pardner in Parole Board to happen. It is not up to the Partner in Parole Board if that's going to happen on the first it's up to the Executive director. His name is Tom Bates, and it's upt to the General Council of the Partner in Parole Board. So we
need those two solutions to happen right now. We need that hearing on Monday, and we need the governor to take action immediately so that Julius can come home and so that the Paul that the Paul excuse me, Paul Howell's family, who was the man who was killed his family can can be at ease and rest and recover because we are praying for his family to what happened to his family, what happened to him is not okay.
But we also don't want them to kill another innocent man and call that justice just because we need the governor and we need the partner of World Board to do the right thing. But but I'm under the understanding that Mr. Howell's family does not support the support they be. They do not support Julius being released. They do not support that. No, they do not accurate, Yes, ma'am that
they do not. They believe they believe that even with all the evidence, all the information that has released over the last several years, but certainly most recently, all the work that has happened in the state of Oklahoma, even knowing because I I've actually watched information get out there about the person that is actually what that that is alleged to be for um Mr Howell's murder. Even with all of that, the family is saying they still think
Julius should be held and executed or just held. It's I've watched two interviews Oklahoma's media. They've had two interviews. I have watched them to make us say that they want him to be held and executed. That is what I've heard latest from the Hower family. Yes, it's just so unfortunate man, just being being a victim of the
injustice system. Just understanding how they get it wrong. Just understand how you can be falsely accused and sitting in just several times for a crime that you do and commit right to know that there's a brother and and he's not the only brother. And throughout history we found out that people sitting on death row should have never been on even in prison. And to see that we still have a justice system that when there is even a shred or doubt that someone committed a crime, is
willing to put someone to death. Is so is mind body gun? To me? Like, it doesn't if someone else admits to a crime that you're about to take someone's life for that in itself should at least say we're not taking this, you know. And and and the fact that that is not the process is the fact that that doesn't immediately happen to me. It's just like who
created these lads? Who what you know? They said that the lord is supposed to before the people by the people what people sat down and came up with this process and said that this made sense some very sick people. I earned a lot. So I've been doing organizing work for the last twelve years this I've worked on a lot of cases to free people who were about to be executed. I've never been this close to the family,
and I've spoken to Julius um there. There are two sick things that have come up for me in this case. One is I don't understand why if somebody in this case,
Julius Jones. I don't understand why if Julius Jones had a hearing that was scheduled so that he could testify, so that they can sort out the evidence and make a recommendation to the governor, I don't understand why then the warden of Oklahoma State Penitentiary where he is currently sitting, would put him on deathwatch before his hearing took place. It's mind boggling to me. When you are about to be on death watch, they ask you the most sickening questions.
What do you want your last meal to be? Who do you want to hold your hand when you do it? Who do you want to witness the execut u shan psychologically what that can do to somebody. And then they lock you underneath the jail in a little cold cell and they feed you food through the door. But you have you have a fifty fifty possibility because you just got a recommendation to the governor to keep you alive. So why they we put you on death watch? To
begin with? Is stick itting to me and to your point, my son about policies and who makes these rules? That was the warden's decision, and the warden is not elected. Then I'm trying to understand why we even do the death penalty to begin with, right, why is that even still a thing that states that people that that systems We we know, we know that there are people who have been executed who were innocent, and we still do it.
We know that there are other ways. We have talked about restorative justice in this injustice system, and and that executing people actually doesn't stop crying. So there is a whole entire conversation we need to have. And I and I have learned so much and been challenged so much. I have lost sleep, I've had nightmares. I've been praying very hard for Julius. This is not weak because we
didn't do this. Ship can I cind of start? We didn't do this, But the people who made these decisions, to your point, my son, are some cruel, sick and devilish people. How you can't even do that to me is like I don't understand who. I don't even understand how if you're human, I don't get it. I don't understand. It's torture and it's disgusting, and it happens to our people the most. So unbelievable. Do you ask me? Man?
I've been watching this case, you know, and watching you you know, people are real close to me or you know, this is one of his close friends, and just see that that is taken, you know, and it's not even this is not even somebody that I physically no, but just watching it through y'all and just just having a heart as a human being, it's like, damn, this man's life is on the verge of being taken for something that more than likely, you know, there is evidence that
says that he didn't do that's right, and since he's been incresirated, so he went to jail when he was nineteen, he's forty one now at this point, he's been in jail longer than he's been alive for something that he didn't do and wasn't even act And so to take his life, that means he lived nineteen years because it's like we're talking about taking his life in the execution sense, right, but to take his life and to lock him up, he's been in there since he was nineteen and what
and so so one he's been held wrong right like that he wasn't supposed to be in the begin with his His future has been taken from him. And if he has any small chance of a future after this, which is dependent on the work that we all do, so quick, uh call to action to folks. We need folks to go visit free Julius Jones dot com. That is where folks can make phone calls to the people are asking how can I help, how can I help?
Say this black man. We need folks to go visit free Julius Jones dot com so that they can make phone calls not only to the governor, but to the executive director and that General Council that I was talking about. That window was very very very very small we had between now and Monday, and if uh we do win that, or if we do not win that and the Attorney General wins his case by contesting with the tent circuit did,
then they will proceed with an execution. Mm hmm. So this is not like we've got all the options are still on the table, but the window that we have is a lot smaller, right, we have between now and November eighteen. Now we've got between now and whenever that Attorney General response comes back, and we don't know when that is. That can come out tonight, right, um, And so we have that smaller window. But I I do I want folks to go to free Julius Jones dot com.
I want folks to follow the Grassroslot project. I want to shout out until freedom followed. The support that y'all have been doing, both in front of the scenes and behind the scenes. Folks don't understand how we always organized that we'd be getting stuff done. But even on your social media page and the work that y'all have been doing in phone call you'll have been making have helped make that useful, have helped push the envelopes so that
the governor can pay attention. Because the thing that we know ahead it's interesting that you say that because I've sat by, and you know, people all why to meet Mallory always have something to say, well why doesn't So sometimes I just sit by and I said, Okay, let me just you know, play my role, be in the background,
do the things, find the scenes. But I realized that if I didn't say anything on social media and rev up our audience, if you will, the people who listen to and support us, it would just be days that go by and Julius would need to be mentioned other than class fools law page. You know. Of course, Shaun King has talked about him, um, you know, several times, and you see some of the same people out there advocating.
But the folks who claimed that we all are overwhelming, and we are co opting, and we're all of these things, they have not done one thing to bring attention to this situation and to try to fight to save Julius's lives. And the reason why they can't do that is because they spend so much time focused on trying to tear other people down that they are not even they don't
have any goal. Because to me, Julius Jones is probably one of the most important issues of our time right, not because friends and family that we know have come to us, but no, we know the facts, we understand the story, and yet there are many days that Julius is not even being mentioned by some of the same people who have so much to say about us. And I recently saw you online saying that one you don't know everything, and too you shouldn't spend your life talking
about other people. And I know that the work sort of at times, all of the energy, the negative energy especially can get you down, especially you while you're also working with someone who's on death row dealing with his family.
It's a lie or Rolland for those people who don't know, we keep mentioning him, but we haven't said or Rolland who is our friend who's also um a coach within the n B a UM he works very closely in terms of training um UH athletes, not just in the NBA the NFL, and he also has a youth organization where he trains young people as well. And he's our brother. UM you know he said to me one day I called and he said, in his heart he believes that julius life is going to be saved. And I want
to believe that also. But if for some reason this system does not do what it is supposed to do. You should just know, Tiffany, that the world will acknowledge eventually how hard you went for Julius and how much um it became your own story, like you know, not just something you're working on. But I see you and your own leadership developed, been and growing, and so I just want to make sure to give you your flowers on street politicians and make sure you know that your
loved and appreciate it. And that means so much to me coming from y'all as people. That two things that you said, one that means so much to me because everybody that we don't know can talk about us, but what really matters the people that do know us. Yeah, And I also know that if at any point I am stepping out of line, which has happened before, but the people that love me and the people that got my back are the ones that I can go to
who will tell me the truth. And so to even have and this is not to reverence you in my son in any different way, right, but but to have people that I look up to and people who I feel like I've done this work genuinely even though they get dragged even though they get talked about. And folks don't always recognize this, But to me goause most of the nine percent of the time, y'all get asked to come and do this work. You don't just go on everybody's business and show up and say I'm gonna help
you and save the world. People at I think for Sean King, people called Sean to say, hey, can you help with the Julius Jones case. This wasn't him popping up and I wanted to help. He actually tried to avoid it because he knows that people talk cracked about him all the time. And I know that that struggle as a leader is hard, and so it's I have been nervous right to say, Okay, well people, what the people gonna say, But at the end of the day, exactly what you said to me, because it doesn't matter
what people say. I'm doing God's work. God asked me to be here. God put me here. I've been praying since I left the end of a a CP to do work that really really mattered to me. And this is the work that really really matters. And it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, because anybody else gonna fly to Oklahoma and yell at the governor organize a protest. Talked to Julius on the phone, who also believes that he will be saved. Julius doesn't believe he's going to die.
I spoken to Julius. Julius says, listen, I believe and I have prayed that I'm going to be here, but that this is this is about me, and God is using me for a bigger cause. And if Julius, if Julius on death broke, can say that to me, then I have no other choice but to do the work. So that means a lot. To thank you for my flowers. I love you. That's right, Roses boucare Roses well, Tiffany, it was you know, it's a pleasure to have you is always a pleasure. Like she said, the work you're
doing is definitely God's work. I gotta get you your guard's work hat because you gotta wear it, you know. But um, we love you, man, continue to fight. We we're praying for Julius. We're fighting for Julius, and like you said, we believe that God is gonna do what he does man, and he would definitely be free and he would be back where he's supposed to be. Man. So let's just from God's is, from our mouth to God's is. Yeah, Man, alright, Peece, Tiffany, thank you, thank you, Love you too.