Ep. 418 "Justice For Julius Jones"

Sucker du no, y'all's new thing that I love. I called Torik my son for those listening who don't know who Trek is, but you should because I talked about more time and I'm like, hey, man, what's what's up what you do? And I haven't heard from you know, he lives on his own, he's in a different state. So I'm like, what you're doing. I haven't heard from you. He's like, I'm just staying out the way. Mother, that's it. I say, I'm sucker ducking man. He's putting up with it.

And so staying out the way means trying not to be the center of anyone. You don't want to drama, you don't want to hate, you don't want. You just want to stay in your own lane people. But people say they're staying out the way and there and they are the way of the problem. I just want that to be acknowledged, like you're staying out the way, and yet you are the one. You're the one that's always getting on my nerves, like you know, like he had.

I know, I'm not supposed to talk too much, but I'd say, he's a dog, and I don't really like dogs. That's not my thing. First of all, I'm terrified of dogs. I think I'm getting better. It's kind of like I'm getting over it because no one else seems to care, especially the people who have dogs that I tell them I'm afraid and they go, yeah, she's just gonna just touch you a little bit, and it's going. But I don't want it on me at all, not in the space,

don't sniff nothing. So I that's not my thing. I'm not I'm not a dog person. But you've got this dog and the dog it's kind of cute. So I checked the dog out. I look at the dog. I'm like, well, the dog's hair needs to be like something's done around the eyes or something, because it feels like dogs hairs and eyes. He's like, yeah, I got it. I'm taking care of it. So the next day I called back, I'm like, let me see the dog straight. He's like, what are you talking. I'm like, did you get the

dog's eyes? Taking care of Then? To that, I said, okay, I'm getting ready calling people whoever it is that you're supposed to call to report folks that are not doing the right thing with their dog. I'm calling those people because and he's like, somebody that doesn't like dogs has the audacity to be up in my business with me and my dog. But that's because I mind his business about everything. So now i'm the doggy grandmother monua business. Okay,

I'm gonna try, but I'm a doggy grandmother. That is kind of cute. So now you didn't like the dog, I think I should take the dog. Actually, how just it was from you don't like dogs to you advocating for the dog to do grandmother, and now you should take the dog. Yeah, because he doesn't really know how to take care of a dog, because you do well, you know, I know how to take care of a child. See, so the dog that you don't really like, you know,

how to take care of because you child. Our friend Jamilla, she did the same thing to her son. Um, she took his dog too, you know, she took Kai's dog. So now the dog that she has that was Kai's dog. She went to Kai's house, found the dog, loved the dog, the dog, she brought the dog home, and the poor man lost his dog. So this is the thing. Mother's taking the kid's dog. So anyway, the show today though,

is you know, a really really important one. We've been advocating for this young man, Julius Jones, who was on death row in Oklahoma. Our friend or rolland Um, you know, has asked us to support and we've been doing that. And today we're gonna get brought up to speed on the end tire situation by his friends and other advocates and just people who have been working on it. So we want to give them as much time as possible. We're really dedicating a long uh segment in the show

today to Julius Jones and the fight for justice for him. Um, so we're gonna get to that quickly. My little thought of the day is also kind of like funny, but it's not funny. It's actually not funny, it's actually deadly. Why is it that people do not understand in a COVID world, a pandemic world, to stop talking in your

face when they're taking pictures. You know, you take your mask off and you stand next to a person you're trying to take the picture, but because you want your face, but you really know you got to harry it, put your mask back on and instead of them saying, you know, well, instead of them just taking the picture, they like, I just love you so much, and you just what you're right here? Back up what you got fans, listen, a lot of people. You are inspiration to a lot of people.

Some people they lose theirselves because I've watched people come with you and like, oh my god, you're to go and they don't not even cognizance, conscious of what they're going on. And in that moment, and you know me, I want to talk to everybody. I'm gonna stop, I'm gonna talk. I'm willing to take pictures and I don't even like being on camera at all, but I will take a thousand pictures. I don't mind. I want to

talk to people. I want to feel the people. What I am saying is that it is a time of cold, paying them make six feet distance. So if you and I are standing here taking a picture together, talk to the front, let the air go this way. Do not turn your reath towards my face to tell me about my grandmother. You know you have. I'm of course it was, but I'm just saying there's a reason for us to now bring it up, because if I had said it before COVID, they would say she's just weird and rude.

But I really want to know. Then here's my second thing, what is wrong with ya? Because it's all none of all the same thing. It's all the thought is the thought of the thought of the day is what would we please observe the six feet distance rules? And I think people don't know what that entails. I think they only understand six ft like you standing on the line and you gotta be six ft apart. They don't understand

that six feet mindset means don't breathe in my face. Okay, don't breathe over my food when we're sitting somewhere and we all haven't dinner, just because we don't we we can't wear masks. Don't talk over my food. But you know, what I don't understand about men, especially in this COVID crisis. Why do y'all still shake hands with people that you just meeting on the street. People talk, yo, mice, it's

good to see you. They've seen you on the street, and they're touching your hands and then and you and you have those and you actually touched them back. It is the craziest thing I've ever This is six ft six ft that means do it. And that's what I'm saying. This should be a rule thing because I think people don't understand that six ft includes don't touch me, don't touch me. We're good this COVID, Like, I'm serious, You

touch people's hands all the time. And I didn't, like you said, even before COVID, because I watched the man I told you, I watched the man scratching all over doing all kinds of nasty stuff, and then he came right up to you and shook your hand, and you was doing it up, and I switt as soon as you turned around, I had that sanitized and skirting it all over, like cleaning you down, and you didn't even know. So I just want to know why y'all don't see this well I think what it is is it's forced

to have it. You know, when somebody has been doing something for forty plus years, right, it's hard to just change that in a year and change you know. It's hard for people two whatever you say, it's hard for people to just say, you know what, I'm no longer going to just that people because it's a sign of you know, karatie, a sign of love, respect, People personalize.

So I think most of us are still fighting, you know, to keep that connection, to keep con It's not really a connection when you when you do that to somebody in my world, it really means I don't really funk with you, you know what I'm saying. Normally when you do, like if you go like this to somebody and you go like that, it's like you just stay away, you cool because six ft I'm just trying to tell you,

I'm talking about the normal. Would it meant if somebody walk up to you to give you a help and you go like this, But we didn't normally do that I'm saying now. But I'm just trying to tell you that's not a term of endearment. It's not like I really I'm good always something Let me, I'm happy to see. It's not it doesn't mean that. No, that means as soon as you do that to somebody that's anxious to

see you, it throws them off guard. It's like, okay, then why you don't say because see I have to say because they look at me like really, that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing cold day six feet and they and they take it, but it's still it drows him back and they're like, damn, I dreamt about this one time I might be able to hug to me him and there's no hug. But I'm telling you,

you think you think you don't have fans. They're like, yeah, I just want to shake your hand with its dudes that come to me and like, yo, I love you like you want of my favorite I just want to always say, you just want to shake that brother's hand. And the time they get to shake their hand of like not cold. Yeah, I'm just gonna go and because you know why, and you know what I tell you, give me a little bit whatever it is from my things. I'm gonna take a little handshake and wash my hands.

Part of the thought of the day is also that sanitizer needs to go on the back side of the hand, all through the fingers, not just this right here, and and every single day when you get but it's so serious. It's not the It serious is that you are so serious every single day when you get home at night you think this cell phone is not your g This

has turned into the German Fold episode. Every aspect that you could transfer an episode, y'all, Jarnes, because you're cell phone, you touch this, you touch that when the person shakes your hand. It's not like right then you cleaning yourself up, So then you touch your phone. Didn you do this? Didn't you do that? Then you go to your house and put the phone down, You go wash your hands. If you're listening, my head is in my hand. You wash your hands, and then you go back and get

your phone. Go alright, well, I'm gonna leave it alone. But I just want the world to know that we're still in the pandemic. First of all, people just nasty anyway, But let's just go with the pandemic. And it's six feet six and we're looking for a bubble for Tamika just could surround us, and no Jo, you think it's funny. I just want you to know. Okay, to be clear, let the record show that it's not just about me

protecting myself. I could have COVID and I could give it to you and you take it, because after you leave me, you're going to visit your mama, your grandmama, your kids, your this one and that one, and you could pick something up for me. So the six feet is not because to me is just being a German fold and fold and being rude. It's really serious, like this is a time when we really should be paying more attention to like ourselves. And I'm not fit to be talking to folks that want to speak to me

without their mask on in my face. Very interesting. Okay. Six, Before we go to the next segment and have our special guests joint, we're gonna take a quick break for our sponsors. So, as we've been saying today, we're focused on folks who are unfortunately on death row. I mean, we've we've talked about in the past how I do not support the death penalty because we're in a country

where you know, you just you don't know. There's too many of our people who have been railroaded by the system for us to give this American government the ability to take life. Um, it's just it's it's it's uncomfortable. And I was we were saying, I don't know. I think we were debating it on the show. When we were talking what we weren't debating, but we were discussing, um, you know, whether or not yet because you told me that I was right, because exactly because I said that

it was last week. I think, yeah, no, it was last week. It was last week. But you were saying, I told you I don't agree, but that if someone raped my my daughter, it might be a problem for me. And you said, well, what if they raped your son? And it made me think that, wow, that's true. You can't just say your girl and not consider also your son. But you know what, I changed my mind about the death penalty, and I think that the conclusion is no. Still at that point, I am not you know, I

don't support the death penalties. So UM, we have been on our social media platforms and in any way that we can't supporting a young man by the name of Julius Jones UM. And we've learned of this situation because one of our Until Freedom Brothers UM, someone who has been working with us very closely, especially around the Brianna Taylor.

Um matter Um is Earv Roland, who yes, he's we always have our friends on street politicians another friend um and you know Earth came to us and said, you know, first of all, Earv's a big Tom Negro So if people don't know, you know, yeah, he's big time big y'all talk about how big time he is later, but he's big time big Tom. And so he was getting other big time people to get involved with this situation.

And he came to us and and said that Julius was on um death row and that he was fighting to um, you know, to to get him off right, and he's telling us the story, and it really moved us, and we all said, let's do what we can to help advocate for this young man. And now we have come to the place where it's just in a few weeks, right,

a few weeks that he would actually be executed. So I guess we're gonna find out today because I think that it's a few weeks that he that they have to actually be able to um stay the execution and make sure that this man lives. And we want to hear more about our Julius story. We could tell it, because you know, I love to talk, but I think it's better that it comes from his best friend, Jimmy Lawson. And then also, of course Nerve is with us today,

who's a friend of Jimmy's, and Julius is. And then C. C. Jones Davis um this this woman is running the campaign to get justice for Julius, but she also is a leader in her own right. And I'm excited to have all of them here to give us some marching orders so we know what to do over the next few weeks. And it's actually been um some some movement that is going in a positive direction, So we're gonna learn all

about that today. Yes, we are our guests today. How are you doing, Jimmy, c C or how you're doing today? We are well. Thank you all so much for having us. I appreciate you having us. Thank you all, man, Thank you man. You know, we you know, unfortunately under these circumstances, you know, we have to have you on the show. You know, it's it's definitely not the best we will that someone has to fight for their life, you know, in the in the society where this justice system, in

justice system frequently makes mistakes, you know. So you know it's sad that we have to have this conversation, but it's definitely needed. We want to utilize our platform to do whatever we can to save this man's life. So, Jimmy, you know you've been here since the beginning. You know this is your best friend. Could you give us like played by playoffs from the beginning to you know, some what to now, like what's what's how this happened? What's

going on? And just give us up to speed. Yeah. Sure, man. First of all, I appreciate your having is I on this amazing show man, We greatly appreciate it. Julias Jones is a gentleman from Oklahoma City. We were from North Side, Okay See and uh me and Julia has been best friends since the sixth grade. A little about who he is, so, you know, he's from an amazing family with a two parent home. What made it special for him and I We were one of the only two families that had

both our moms and dads in the household. That's important as I get along with the story, uh, most of the persenteds of Oklahoma City grew up with either grandparents or single parent homes. The high school we went to was not pent African American Souls, was a black school on the side of town that was predominantly black. That's key. That's key, and uh, because I want to tell you a little bit about Julius the man and who he

was as a young man coming through high school. So his mental capacity, Julius was one of these special dudes where he had this unique mental ability. What I mean by that he was one of the first of two African American mayles to graduate the top ten per cent of our class in high school. I was the other one.

So we were we were lucky, uh to be able to garners our academic side, and then we were both were basketball players as well, So that was a you need dynamic, dynamic because I'm building this feature of how much character Julius asked his foundation is background, his values, his work, ethic right, and kind of where we are now. So coming out of high school, he is a full

academic scholarship recipient at the University of Oklahoma. In the back in the nineties, you don't know about everybody knows, oh you football, right, So back in the nineties, the demo graphics of oh you was almost ninety fi per seeing white. Only African American people on campus was football and basketball players. Julia's Jones was one of the first to get an engineering major scholarship, so he was breaking the bold right for something that wasn't even being done

at the time. So it kind of shows you the character and the mendical passages this brother had. So it goes to ou, I go off to Grandma State University play college ball down there were reconnected in and he noticed I noticed that he started hanging around a dude we went to high school by the name of Christopher Jordan's. We called the west Side. Now west Side was the exact opposite of me and Julius. He comes from a different background, raised bas groundmall want to be game banger.

So really, me Julius west Side really didn't have nothing to come besides basketball. So I better to be kind of odd that west Side and Julie started hanging around a little bit. Um. I didn't ain't too much of it because we were again playing ball in some of the rec centers and things like that. So as we got long into the summer on July twenty, right, I'm sitting at home watching the news and come across the news that this white gentleman by the name of Paul

Howell gets murdered in mun Oklahoma. I want to build a pixel real quick, a little bit about what Edmund, Oklahoma looked like, which is the suburb of Oklahoma City. Back then, it was more predominantly white. So the mantra in that particular city was a white guy gets killed. Oh, it's probably gotta be a black guy who did it, right, That was the mantra back then. So Roba bat media was going crazy. We're looking for a black suspect, even though the fact wasn't even really point to a black person.

It was because not a murder in him, and it's got to be a black suspect, right. So so things went down and a few days later, Christopher Jordan's get apprehended. And then you know how the system is, right, when the first one gets to talk, some crazy stuff starts to happen. Right, So they get to Christopher Jordan's first, you start squilling our district attorney town about Macy right off the bat city whoever is guilty for this death penalty right off the bat. So I think what happened

was you know, west Side got apprehended. He got scared and he said, uh uh, I was driving Julia's shop. So that's how Julia Jones kind of got tied into this particular case, right, No relations out of the scene, nothing like that, no evidence. So it was really west Side that got scared tied into it. And then while now we're sitting at trial right and they are suiting for the deafilty for Julius west Side corroborating the story.

We had a couple of informants that also played a major role into the case that we didn't even know what's part of the ball game until we're sitting at trial. So you got a guy by the name of the del King and Kermin Lotty. These two in particular individuals had some other pending cases on their own that we didn't know as a family that was playing attributive factor about them being an informant. So all these side deals was going on behind the curtains and we didn't even know.

We didn't even know. So one major point that changed the diamondo of the case before we were the trials that our original trial attorney passed away. You had a heart attack, so a couple of months before trial, he's gone. We spent some money, so our last resource was to get a public defender. Right, so we go to trial. These two particular public defenders. Guess what, it's their first ever death road case, no experience. One was straight out

of law school. Right. So now we've got the highest profile case in Oklahoma County and probably twenty years and we have rookies as our as our defense. Uh. That was that was strange and unique right in devibeing the courtroom. Was you got an all white jury at the time, right, white rights prosecuted. Everybody looked different than us. Uh, that

was my first time being exposed to the system. You read about it, you saw it on TV, but when you're sitting in it, you're like, hey, this is uh, this is not like TV, right, this is this is totally different. This is like really at the moment where they're gonna decide that they're gonna try to put my bester into death and he wasn't even tied to the case.

So they wasn't even tied to the case. Yeah, you know, all the all the build up for how they were trying to tie Julius into it was miraculous within itself. We were very confused of how we even got to that point because their preparation was really all about west Side, right, trying to corroborate Julius. So we were like, uh so west Side of all these details and stuff, don't you think west Side really has something to do with it? Right and now Julius, So that was kind of strange.

So the proceedings starting court, our public defender on our time when we had to make our defense, doesn't impossible, mindful. Bob Mason, the county district attorney, spent two or three days providing why Julius was guilty. So now we finally had I chanced to make our presentation. Guess what this guy does. He stands up and says, uh, we rest our case. We're like, we're like, wait a minute, no, no evidence. You didn't call it judas to the standing.

They called me the family. You didn't even provide pictures about what the shooter looked like by Paul House sister, you didn't even you didn't even do that. So we were like, you know, how you take a little air balloon, you let the area that's what it felt like in the court, Like we were watching live and direct right, this system in our defense, put on no defense, and then there are about to make a decision to try

to put my best friend to death. So, of course what happens we get to the to the day of the of the reading of the of the verdict, they con victim, they come out with the announcement that they're gonna shoot for the death penalty. On death penalty, you know, being n twenty one at the time. Um, that was a feeling, right, I felt like I had to I

had to throw up. My head was hurting, right, It's like I was dreaming, man, I was watching my best friend who had such an amazing promising future right now, getting yeah, it walked off the death row. It's like one of those bad horror movies that you don't want to be a part of. How has he been on death row? Twenty two years? Now? Twenty two years? That's right, twenty two years and and wow, twenty two years, so how old is he? Years old? I just, you know,

just listening to that story being convicted, falsely convicted. I've just listened and share so many of those similar stories. You know. I had an attorney that just listening to his defense for me when there was nothing to time me to eat anything, just listening to his lack of defense for me, and it just really was weird. You know. I was shocked, Like I was sitting like this is it Like they don't have anything, there's nothing, there's nothing

that ties me anything. It's my word against somebody else's worth. There's nothing. I don't have, no prior history, nothing, And I'm sitting here watching these people pretty much orchestrate something to to railroad me, you know, and I'm listening to you and this, this promising young brol I had a promising career, this promising and brother engineering and um athletic ability, all of these things promising life is really pretty much railroad because somebody had to be found guilty of this

problem that happened to this right person. It's just like it's sad man. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's just unbelievable. So so you know, maybe well let let me leave you ear for a moment before we go to the next segment and have our special guests joint. We're gonna take a quick break for our sponsors. So let me just ask you Cec, after all these years, like when do you get involved, and how does this situation become nationally known where people are fighting for Julius all over

the country. Yes, so I moved to Oklahoma. I'm from Virginia. I moved to Oklahoma, UM in two thousand sixteen. Um my husband got a job there. I had been working with the Obama administration for seven years. So my my goal, I'm a I'm a minnester of ours worked up the intersections of social justice and faith right. My goal when I went to Oklahoma was to take sit down somewhere

and take care of my my little ones. UM. But I learned about Julius Jones a couple of years after I moved there, and I learned about him through The Last Offense, which Voula Davis and her husband Julius Tennant produced for ABC. And I was, I mean, I was torn up about what I saw. I saw Jimmy on that documentary talking about his friend. I saw the Jones family, and I was just you know, I was just crushed, and I just I was not gonna be able to be in Oklahoma, pay taxes, grocery shop. I wasn't gonna

be able to make it in Oklahoma. Knowing that that this black man is on death row and we're gonna kill him, you know, And so UM, I watched the documentary. The next day, I called, I googled his attorneys. UM got in touch with them. Eventually was able to connect with the family and from there really just started to

community organize. You know. I didn't have a background in criminal justice reform or or Oklahoma's laws or nothing like that, but um, I did have a background and just learning how to speak up for the poor and the defenseless. And I wanted to do whatever I could do, use whatever ski skill sets I had. So I just had a lot to learn along the way, you know what I mean. But we make the way by walking all

the time. So that's what we had to do in Oklahoma. Um. And the first couple of years, you know, between the family and Jimmy and me and you know, just those who were concerned, we would just had this like this grit that you know, in this determination that we were just not gonna let it go. And there were so many people who wouldn't take our meetings, wouldn't return our phone calls. UM. I can't even tell you, UM, but you know, so when you are what were you all

trying to get done. When you say you want a new trial, like, what were you going to the beginning? We were asked, I was asking for a new trial. I contacted the district attorney several times and I said, listen, this was not even your case. This is this is twenty years ago. This was not even your case. Look at what has come out right since since this prosecution, Um can this man needs a retrial, and saying your

power to do that. He would not return my calls, he would not return my emails, and eventually he sent word through my pastor to tell CC Jones Davis to shut up. I don't want to hear anything from her. The only thing that she and other phaith leaders can do is to pray for Julius a soul because he's gonna fry, right, and this is turning Invoklahoma accounting, so um you know. So we knew that that wasn't gonna

be an option, right. We knew that this man was not going to even be opened to Julius in any kind of way, And so the goal was really to do what we could to use the last defense as a tool, right, and to let everybody see it. Everybody know it, and so we we were on every podcast we could get on, even if it's only two folks listening to us. You know, we were on every radio station we work, We were holding community meetings. Um. And really what what kind of took us over the edge?

I'll tell you. Let me say this, if it had not been for God, we wouldn't never have made it. Okay, I need to really really say that, because, um, it's nothing but the truth. Um. But in January, right before the pandemic, Just Mercy had come out, the movie and I did um some private screenings of Just Mercy because there were so many similarities, right, and Julius's case and

Mr McMillan's case. And after that I was able to connect with Scott Button and who is the producer of the movie Just Mercy you think about, Um, you know, I was able to let him know about all of this. So he connected me with represent Justice, which is his like he says on the board for this new on profit out of California that focuses on criminal justice reform nationally. Um. And it's a product of the movie Just Mercy. And

from that point things really took off. But let me even go back one of the other things that we did was to form a coalition of people because I knew that it wasn't gonna be one, two or three people. We were gonna have to have a massive amount of folks you know, on social media, writing letters, etcetera. So we formed the Julish Jones Coalition, and those people, particularly a woman named Terry McCarthy. She wrote Kim Kardashian dirty letters. I don't know how she found an address. She wrote

her dirty letters telling her about Julius Jones. Connect then with Scott Buttnick and from there Represent Justice says, we will take this on as a campaign. Literally, Represent Justice gave us wings. We were running as fast as we could run. We were moving us, we were doing everything we knew how to do. We were moving as fast as we can move. But once they came along and gave us and infrastructure, we were legit. We were out

in greats, in a in a massive serious way. And so for the last year, you know, that is how that kind of support is how we have gotten you know, over six million signatures gonna change that or Phetician, you know, a hundred and fifty thousand letters to the Partner Parole Board, and the governor so far, um, you know, just a massive just a massive effort. But it has taken I'm gonna end then I'm gonna shut up. But it has

taken everybody at every level, every level. It's taken what we would consider the small voices, then the medium sized voices, then the big voices with the big platforms. It has taken every single group of people from every single place to be old what I call a human chain to pull Julius Jones out of Oklahoma's criminal justice system. But that's what it takes, man, It takes you know, everybody doing whatever they can, you know, to speak up and

stand in and get for just this. You know, since this case has happened, you know, it's happened over twenty two years ago. Has there been new developments or any new information? You know? I know that you guys are trying to get a new trial for Julius. Wouldn't. Okay, let me tell you what is egregious? What is it?

This is that four people have come forward to say that that the co defendant, Christopher Jordan's has has brag confessed admitted over the years to being the killer to four different people who have no incentive to come forward, who don't know Julius Jones, who don't you know, who

don't know each other. And the state of Oklahoma said, we don't believe you because you have a passing incarcer you know, you're you used to be incarcerated, because you don't have money, because you're brown or black, we don't you, right, And and you know, it has been it has taken a massive effort and it continues to just humanize Julish Jones.

So that's why it's important. That is why it's important when Jimmy talks about his background, who he was, how he grew up, how smart he is, because you know, these folks don't believe that black and brown people are anything other than criminals. So and so when those four folks came forward to say, yeah, this man has bragged for years, that was the merits of that have never

been considered in Oklahoma. When a juror came forward over the years and said, hey, there was another white juror and this was a white these were two white jurors. There was another white juror who called this man an inn word. What during during the trial said, let's this is a waste of our time. Let's just take this in word to the back of the court and shoot him and get it over with. You know. So it's been a mass It's it's real life. It's real life racism. Um,

you know, structural racism. The systems are guilty. It's just very It's and and and you and you or I could get caught up in it just like that, just like that, for reasons that are even less than the reason Julius is in this situation. You can find yourself in a system. So I think it's a fight for

all people to come together. You talked about the big names of people who started to come and you know, people start getting involved, and you know, and and and speaking up on Julius's behalf and one of those people, um is our brother Irv and erv. I know you also keep in touch with Julius and you talk with him. Um, And I'm just you know, what what does a man say that's on death row to you? And what are you what are your conversations with him as well? Man?

It's it's it's so crazy. Um. You know, I'll be as brief as I can, but like as I go through my day to day life and I'm complaining about nonsense, the weather, uh, my car being whatever. And Julius calls me, obviously knowing his situation, and he's so full of life and energetic and upbeating positive. I gotta slap myself in the face. Like he's asking me, you know, about shoes coming out, he's asking me about the games, Um, you know who's playing? Who who you think is gonna win?

And he's so positive and full of life and so energetic and um, you know, it's it's really inspiring to be honest. Does he believe that he's going to be free? Man? He calls me even before uh you know, yesterday and the hearing and stuff. When he calls and we talked his first one of the first things he always mentions is how he we need to hurry up and get his situation over with so he could we can start helping other people. He wants to immediately get out and

start helping you. That's his thing, Like I need to get out. I gotta help these young people. I gotta help inspiring this new generation and make sure they don't go down the wrong path. And you know, uh, Jimmy and I have always been you know, pretty close Um, you know, we played on the same AU team growing up, and so I knew Julius when I was really small, and um, you know, growing up, Julius played football and basketball. He might tell you he was better than one and

the other. But me and Jimmy we played on the same HEYU team. They're they're both a year older than me, and so we've always been in contact. But I had heard about, you know, the situation. I was in high school and it happened, and I had kind of lost touch with everything, you know what I mean, And so when the Last Defense came out, that's when I got reconnected and re energizing everything. And then c c uh. You know, her husband works in the NBA like I do,

so you know, we were connecting. Me and Jimmy started talking and I'm like, yo, I gotta do everything I can because obviously we're on the front lines for so many people that we don't know. And so I've known Julius for so long, so I had to get out there and do my part. Wow. So you know that's amazing, man. It's just a testament of the person you are. Man

since we met you. You know, your heart, your mind, your will, for justice, you know, just always pushing being inside the NBA, you always were pushing athletes to stand on the right side of justice, to speak up, utilize their voices. So that's a testament to who you are. So you spoke briefly about the decision that was given. Um, could you give us, you know, update or understanding of exactly what it is because some people don't understand what

does it mean, what do we need? What's the next steps? And you know, just give us an update of that. Yeah, I'll go back and forth with Jimmy with this. UM. So basically, UM, I was able to fly home be with the people, and we sat and listened to the hearing between the Partner Parole Board, and you know, it was tough. It was heavy because you had to listen to the how family recount their memory of the events

of that day. And you know, his daughters, they were in the car and so they're telling us, you know, what they saw. I think they were both like five and six years old at the time. His sister who was in the car as well. They're telling us everything that happened on that day, and it was tough to listen to. And so then you know, Julius, Society got to talk, you know, his lawyers. They did an amazing job. And so basically the Partnering Parole Board voted to commute

his sentence. So they voted three to one to commute his sentence. So now it goes to the desk of our governor, Governor Stid and now he has to take the recommendation of the Partnering Parole Board to go ahead and commute his sentence. And I am my saying that, right, Jimmy, Yeah, So you know, in the state of Oklahoma, I'm gonna backstrat real quick and tell you kind of how we

got here and what that means. So October, during the nineteen the only recourse we had left for Julius was a petition before the Partnering Parole Board, only because the state of Oklahoma denied Julius three times. So over fifteen years, I was preparing appeals along with some other people. I mean, we were like doing pro bono work. Right, I've got a law background, so I'm diving in with it. And what struck me about the system before I get there

was the Pillot process is designed to try to provide relief. However, you cannot introduce new evidence in a pillot process. So here we go, how can I get a new opportunity for a new trial if you're not gonna allow me to introduce the new evidence. So by protocol, a defendant on death row has a it's like one in one million chants of getting an approval for an appeal. So what happens across America is you've got all these guys

that are wrongfully convicted. They can't get an appeal because the protocols and the state level don't allow you to even introduce the new evidence. So we knew that we got to not three times. October twenty nineteen, we foul for clemency with the Partner Row Board. Oklahoma is one of eight states that has a separate entity for partner of a row board. Then the final approval with the state governor. Texas didn't have. That's different, so some states

have a one stock shot with the governor's office. Oklahoma is split, so the recommendation is provided by the p PB, then it goes to the government for final approval. So what happened was we said that day they gave us a March second or March day for our first states for commensation compensations and fantasy word for a we're not really admitting if you're guilty or innocent, but we're gonna give you credit for your time served and you can

go home. Oh we'll do that first, and then we'll go back and do a pardon to erase the guilty police. So it's kind of a two step process. Our job. My job was like, we gotta get you out of jail, so let's go. We're going to the compensation process. So we passed the first stage in March, which in Oklahoma no death Row Amaan has never passed the first stage in the history of Oklahoma. So right then and there we knew we was on a brink of history. Right, Okay,

So they sent a second dairy hearing. So the way the process works, you get first, you passed the second hearing, they vote for either yes or no for your release. That first meeting was in March. The second meeting was scheduled for June. The state of Oklahoma wait until a week before our secondary hearing and then fouls motions to try to eliminate it. So what do they do? They counted it pushed them back to September. We're like, here

we go again. Right, we can't even get in because the state of Oklahoma is doing all these procedural roadblocks, right, so let me keep going. So as we're getting closer to September, Waila, the impossible happened. So the last week of August, our new attorney in General, Attorney General Connord, does the impossible. He fouls a motion to set execution dates for seven death row inmates, including Julius Jones. How could you said today with a guy who has appending hearing, right,

So that blew is out the water. However, in the state of Oklahoma, Court of Criminal Appeals has to approve and confirm requested execution days by the Attorney General. See that was God's blessing because the o c c A did not confirm or accept those dates. So now we got a chance to keep going with that set timoth thing sept timboth th hearing. Uh. So once we got there, all we needed to do is have an opportunity to provide all the evidence, all the stories that we never had.

It just has to do in you know, we were going to be in good safe So going into it, we knew we had an amazing chance uh to make his three only because A, the prosecutorial side was so out of whack because the original d A died already, so all the stuff that they provided back then wasn't really available. They had to rebuild, if you will, the case against Julius. So, man, God works an amazing way. At the hearing again, like Earth said, the prosecutory went first.

They were stabbing, stabbing, stabbing, and the Howe family does their thing. Everybody's crying, and which I get it, you know when you lose some one. But what we were trying to promote is that, you know, justice for Julia's is justice Paul Howell right, because Julia's wasn't the right suspects. So uh, as EARV said, they voted three one in favor for Julius Jones commutation again as a fancy word for thank you for your time served, and we will

released you. So now we're at the point now that Oklahoma state law gives us sixty to ninety days for Governor Stick to either sign or deny the commensation. Of course, so based on what you said, which you know it's a blessing in itself. Um, based on the parole boards findings and their decision. What is the likelihood you know, based on prior history of the governor going with the decision of the war. What is so here's the that's

a that's a very amazing question because it's tricky. We have never had a commutation second hearing provided to the government. The last one we had was in the nineteen nineteen eighties. That was a total different type of case. But what's positive about this opportunity is the board members who voted yes, we're personally appointed by the governor. Still, so that tells me we'll have an amazing chance of him accepting the recommendation.

Like it's like me putting Irvan you on my board and you give me a recommendation, I'm probably gonna go with that because I put you all board. You trust, you trust them. So so it's not because I was I was mistaken. I thought it would just get him off death role and he still might have to serve I don't know what in prison, but I guess that doesn't make sense because he was sentenced to death right, So that means that if you commute the sentence, if

to stop the execution is to stop the sentence completely. Yeah, So it's a it's a the proper I think the proper term is a conversation with life with parole. So when you have life with the possibility of parole on the Oklahoma state law, that's twenty years, and he's over twenty years, so he's automatically eligible for release. Wow, I mean. And so you know which is gonna be great. The Governor's gonna sign it. There's going to be a major celebration. You all are now going to be a new group

of people working on these cases. So you might as well anything else y'all doing C C earth uh and Jimmy, that job is over with. It's now going to be all about getting you all to help work on cases for people who are on depth row um. And certainly we want to be we want to be there to support. But any event that the governor doesn't sign um would it be just in a few weeks that he would actually be executed. So here's the confusion about the execution date.

So the execution execution day is not confirmed. So currently there is not an execution day. It was only a request by the Attorney general. So the good thing is that all the seven people that he was trying to get an execution date or does not have an execution date. So the question was if he gets denied, what's our next step. If he gets denied, then he'll have an opportunity what we call a clemency hearing, which would take place about twenty days once an execution date is confirmed.

Once it is confirmed, listen, man, I'm my mouth to guards is that you know, we don't even have to go to those stages. You know. It's it's just unfortunate just listening to this, right, the fact that you can issue a death penalty to someone when there is a doubt, there's evidence, there's anything that can point to the fact that this person has the possibility of not even being guilty of the crime. You know, and a lot of these crimes, I don't even think they are worthy of

someone being put to death in the first place. Well, if you know, you know, not to say that we agree with the death penalty, but another person's life was taken. Yeah, and that's what I say. I can say. I'm not understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is there are a lot of cases that death penalty that there is not unequivocal evidenced, unequivalent, all equivocal means. It could be could be wrong to see. This podcast is all about

us learning, teaching and learning together. So my song makes up words, up words. Yeah, so I was trying. So yeah, there's not there is not absolute evidence evidence, and these people are actually being murdered this way. It is so crazy, you know. So I'm I'm praying, you know, I believe that the world has been done. I believe that Julius dead to society has been paid for whatever. If he didn't do anything that, you know, whatever it is, it's

God's plan. You know. That's what I always said. When I was incarcerated for a crime that I didn't commit, and I sat there in prison, it just prepared me for the time we are now. Another young brother, he was just released after serving twenty four years for a crime he did commit, but nobody actually even was hurt in that crime. And they had originally sentenced him to thirty five or seventy years, and he just received clemency. And he had the same you know, positive energy that

you in us that Julius Joes has. He wanted to come home and and he hit the ground with that same mentality. So I'm just praying, I see I see the right on the wall, and I believe that we're gonna get a blessing with this man. You know, I just want to say, Man, you know I commend you in the work man earth. You know, even being somebody in the NBA, you know, having a profile, having you know, a fabulous life doing you know what you love to do.

You always come down for justice. Man. Like we met you in Kentucky, you just flew out things like what you need me to do, hands on the ground, you know, just hey, whatever I can do. And you've been that person since, you know, since I met you, and continues to see you move in that space man, and knowing that God has a purpose for you. You know your skill set. You know, they say that your skills will provide your purpose man, and your purpose is informing utilizing

that platform that you have. You lies in the relationships that you have to bring voices to people like Julius and people like Brianna Taylor. You know, you were always advocating with these athletes and let them know that they had a moral responsibility to stand on the side of justice. Man. So continue doing your work. Brother. We salute you, give your flowers while you're here spitulations on a new job with the Utah jazz Man. You know I've seen you working.

You know I know how hard you work, man, so I just want to salute you for that as well. What's your official title? Earth, Yes, I'm an assistant coach with the Utah jazz Man. Uh. Actually my first day in the office, so I just left workouts. That's why I still got my little gear on. But I just left workouts, coming a little office, duck off and wrap with my people. But now I appreciate you all having me. I'll have to cheer for us this year, and we're

gonna keep doing guy's work. Can't wait to give my Utah Yes saying my tickets it offing, I got you, I got Well, let me just say as you all leave that I want y'all to be my friends, right because if ever I'm in a situation the way that Jimmy and you Earth are fighting for Julius and of course Cecy, while she may not have known him, she jumped in and she's become probably more of a friend to him than many people that he grew up with. Those are the types of friends that we need people

who would dedicate their lives. And I can tell Jimmy by listening to you that over the years you've actually educated yourself on the issues to the point where you could be a lawyer. Um. I mean you, you know, you sound like you now know so much about this system. And so together you all make a powerful team. And we just want to say thank you for what you're doing for Julius and know that anything we can do

to support we are here. And we believe, we believe that it's already been written that it's it's necessary for Julius to come home because the work that he has in front of him is bigger, so much bigger than any of us could even understand. And so that's what we all. So everybody on not show reach out to the government. Man, Yeah, you know, do the right thing. Man. Let Julius, you know, continue his life and utilize the rest of his life to do the good work that

he was pretty here to do. Man. Thank y'all. Jimmy, appreciate you, Jimmy Man, We appreciate it. Man. We encourage uh the viewers to go to w W dot Justice for Julius dot com. I man, I'm sorry. Go say that again, Jimmy, because I was trying to see you on the screen. Go say it again. Yeah. I want to encourage all the viewers to go to ww dot

justice for Julius dot com. We've got a pre drafted letter that you all the type of your information and is in a straight the governor's office, flood his office, flood is office, flood is office. But don't call up to his office cussing them out and writing dirty emails and stuff, because sometimes we have to do that, right, sometimes we have to do that. But in this situation, we want to believe that the governor is going to

do the right thing. And so you're calling as an advocate to give him some encouragement so that he can do at what is right. And just so to be be careful people, how you talk to the governor right now? So you need to do, man, We need him to realize the right thing to do is let Julius go.

So just advocate for and set it on God's promise. Man, we appreciate that God has promised that he's gonna do some amazing things for Julius, and Judas is gonna do some amazing things for this state and this for this nation. So we're standing on and we're believing, and we ain't gonna let go. Oh man, I ain't gonna let nobody turn us around. Don't get us up, don't get us shouting up in right. Thank you so much, thank you so much. So this is coming home. Yes, if your

mouth to Guards, I'm just pretty sure of it. Just like you know, all these steps that you hear them saying they took this step, now steps all. Yeah, it's all coming to this moment where I think he's going to be. It's the same energy that I heard Dante give, like he was like, you know, I just want to come home. I want to help these young kids, the

same exact thing that. So, you know, I just believe we're in the season for Guard to do something different, you know, to empower us and give us some wins because we've taken a lot of loansuites al so you know, to be able to see some level of justice and you know, and seeing moving in the right direction. Like he said, you know, the governor appointed, so he respects them, you know. So you know, God, we're gonna get what we're supposed to get. I don't get what I don't

get right now, you know. And and it's like what we were just talking about the death penalty and we're talking about crimes and people going to jail. You know, I've seen something in the news that that really just hummed and hurt me. It's so many weak individuals in the streets, you know. Um. And it was a guy who supposedly, you know, allegedly didn't get over his girlfriend. She got a new boyfriend, they're pregnant, had a baby shower.

She's comes home from her baby shower. It's happening in hallm you know, a few days maybe a week ago, and she comes home and the guy is in her hallway with a gun, confronts her and her new boyfriend, hunted boy him and her boyfriend getting into a fight. She tries to break it up. He shoots in the face and kills And I just don't understand the level of coward ice that comes to them. I would never

understand this mentality, you know. And it's so it's becoming so much more prevalent in society to see things like this. You know, this woman who lost her life, she had two other kids and was pretty much about eight to nine months pregnant with she was nine months she was she was about to give birthday said in about five days, and so that means nine months basically probably even before that she got pregnant, like she wasn't with you, bro, So like you, it's not even like this is just

two days, three days in two months. In this almost a year of at least a year that we know of that she hasn't been with you. And when I talked about coward culture, you know, I know a lot of people hear me say that, and that's what this is to me. It's just like what in the mind of someone, you know, pushes them to want to harm somebody that doesn't want to be with you, to want to harm someone is you know, it's a woman, like a woman. How do you shoot a woman in the

face because she's moved on our life? You know? And I think the culture has and you know, you know in this time, these type of people are being celebrated. No they're not. They are they are because they're putting stuff like this, People are recording and the putting on There was a guy with a girl in the face, what a uh what was a board or something in Harlem? And people skateboard and they laughed about it, and people.

You know what I'm saying, those kids, I don't think anybody anyone is celebrating pregnant woman's life being So you're saying that they're celebrating a type of person that turns into that. Exactly. It's it's things that lead up to that, right, It's things that when you just celebrate the violence and senseless violence and you call it somehow savage and all of this and I'm a demon and all that mentality leads to that. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, that's

what it is. And we celebrate the mentality and a characteristic within men who are supposed to males who are supposed to be men that you know, that gives the lights to situations like this. So I really just don't get it. I think, you know, man, we gotta do a lot better in our communities. You know, we have to stand up. You don't know what, don't you agree with?

It doesn't give light to situations like this? It does, Okay, So let me explain to you what happens is I go on the internet, a girl is arguing with somebody, She gets loud, he slaps up and he's like, oh, she said she shouldn't have gotten this. Faith woom woom woom. Yeah, yeah, she she a man, she getting a man face. She deal with it right. The same situation happens a girl gets she pushes to do he punches it. Yo, shouldn't ever put his hands on it. Right, So maybe she

got an the middle of this. What happens is once you start saying, well, if that happens, then she deserved it, or that happened that she deserved it, the mind state of the individual starts to progress. So if she's in the middle and they fighting and she trying to break it up, and she pushed me to get out of here, this and that, and he shoots her in her mind his mind, well, y'all said it wasn't nothing wrong with

that when they did this. Anybody says she should have did this, well, she pushed me, or she did this, she deserved it. It gives it gives some level of understanding to that. The mind state once you start saying, listen, at no point do you do anything in the harm or woman, right, and no point or is it okay for us to put our hands on women, or do anything negative. You protect women and babies at all cars. Once that mind state becomes prevalent, becomes what society says,

then you're not shooting a woman for no reason. There's no reason that you you thought the man and you end up shooting the woman. You're killing them. This is you understand, I'm saying, you got into a fight with the man and the woman is the one who got killed. Wow. So so that's what I'm trying to say. It gives it is. It's very heavy. It's heavy. It's heavy, very

very heavy. It's heavy. And you know, people have been raising the point that domestic violence is a real thing that we still you know, I don't know how you stop it. You know, because people have been arrested and received like real sentences real time for domestic violence. People have taken the lives of of of people who have harm loved ones, like there's been so many different forms of accountability, and yet still still you see that domestic

violence is real. And I guess we all would have to say that it's a real serious mental health crisis in our community, and it and it and it's something sick to your point about people who even make any type of light about you know, harm and a woman or beating a woman or whatever, and we do see that. So I guess I understand what you're saying, but I just don't want to believe that there's anybody in the world that's okay with this. Do you know what the

self part it is people that's okay. I'm not saying the majority are, but they're like sick, weird weirdo nuts exactly. And what happens is the sick widow nuts being celebrated in this culture. He's being uplifted. They're making this scene. Oh he's a savage, he's a demon. You don't play with nobody. He'll shoot and do this, and that's what they go a frond, But I don't think they say he's gonna shoot a woman. But anyway, they say anybody could get it. This is what they They do say that,

and that's what this podcast is about. It's about talking about things actually are going on in our community and a lot of other people don't touch on. You know, there's no one topic, no one way. Well, they presented as news. It's like a news like and then this happened, So sorry, you know, rest in peace to the family. And that's it. But what we're trying to do is down to what is it about us that allows this to happen? And that's what we do. You do it well.

You're not always wrong, I'm not always wrong, I'm not always right, but we both always the piece, y'all.