Ep. 416 "The Gun Violence Series Recap"

that may cause people to pick up guns. We're gonna be talking to mothers, We're gonna be talking to people who have actually pulled a gun, who've been shooters in the past. We're gonna be talking to folks who have been who are victims of gun violence UM, and also elected officials and other community members who are working to make a change. My brother, his name is Prince Matt. He is the head of Community and Culture at the citizen at Welcome brother, How are you doing today? But

I'm good man, Thanks for having me, Mice. I appreciate that. So before before we start, Mice, if I made UM from being a victim of gun violence and also a perpetrator gun violence UM, where I spent half my life from prison for I want to personally apologize for the shooter and for anyone who has been a victim of gun violence. I personally, prince, I personally apologize for every last one of them, for a lot of them do not know the u the consequences and the hurt and

pain and trauma that they have cause. So before we even start anything, I'm gonna take full responsibility because I played a part in this violence in America. I played a part in gun violence specifically in America, and I want to take a first say I apologize for them,

and many more to come. And that's it's things like that. Brothers, why I a mind you and I look up to you, and I wanted to have you on the show because you know, like you said, you work in the field of gun violence, and you actually have been a perpetrator of gun violence, and you understand both dualities. You understand the reality that the shooter has, you understand the reality that someone who is not the shooter has, and you've

been able to um to see both sides. You know, you you spent like you said, you spend half of your life in prison. What do you think that we need to tell the people like us, the people in the communities, the quote unquote o g s, the ones,

the gangsters, and what what what? What message? How how do we get through to them that they have a responsibility to leave these kids in a different direction, If they have a responsibility to give these kids opportunities and chances and things that they didn't have so they don't make the same mistakes. How do you how do you think we relate that message? What do you think we

need to do? A lot of the ogs in our hood are being validated for the wrong things, you know what I'm saying, So we could validate them, But when they start to do the right things and we start to validate them, we could validate them and give them that, you know, that power that they need to make what we're talking about trending. Just like they make tight pains trending. Or we we we we can make peace trending, you know what I'm saying. Just like they make tight pains trending.

The o g s have the ability to make peace trending and to make you know, um um cleaning our neighborhoods trending. Because they love validation, validation. Then we have to challenge them. We have to challenge them because you can't live on you can't live on both sides of the narrative. Either you want to save your community and health the community, or you want to continue to destroy it. I appreciate you, love you man, oh Man, I love you, Mike. It's a it's a pleasure of just talking about you.

I love you to death, man, and I'm gonna follow you to the end of the world. You're all great. Keep doing what you're doing. Man. I have Shan Duke mcfadder of g MAC in Brooklyn, New York, would maker that's right to come as our change maker. Um. And also because Shan Duke deals with shooters every day, right, So Shan Duke, we are happy to have you on Street Politicians for the first time, but it won't be your last. Thank you, Yes, first time, not the last.

Telling people, giving people some background on what what g MAX stands for with the work that you do. This is a little bit of background. Yeah, I got you. So you know, in this work, I realized I have to so often tell who I am, what I've been through for people to understand how I'm capable of doing the work that I'm capable of doing. One of raised Brooklyn Kings County Hospital, raised to a single mother. Never see my father. I was raised in the projects after

my mother got his back from forcing care. I became a product of what was around me in the white harse of night your houses in downtown South Brooklyn. By the age of sixteen, I was first conservated, became one of the first adolescence to join the United Blood Nation. This was Writer's Island ninety four. So when I did it, it it was only adults. The adolescens didn't even have

a box or bing or shoot. We were sending the HDM and that's where we met the adults who ultimately introduced me to what became a product of my life that sent me back and forth throughout the prison system. And two thousand and eight I was finishing up my last prison sentence from five two thousand and five two thousand and eight. Becuding was as another weapon. And I've seen the father who seen who met his son, who

he had on the conjugal visit. Never seen that schalid dan his life in the streets, and that child came in to sing Sing prison with thirty five years at seventeen years, and I was the only person who witnessed that experience, and I had to make changes because I had to win boys who were then about six or seven years old. And I decided to change my mindset, and I ultimately know that I had to be part of the solution and no longer part of the problem.

So I created an organization that made is to me, which is g MAC, which stands for Gangsters making Astronomical Community Changes, and that is a fible. One seeds to be nonprofit public charity that focused on gun violence from a public health perspective, also dealing with social justice issues and all the things under the unbrellaed that's causing the violence and the issues in our community. What do you think it's gonna take to really cut the gun violence?

And you know, in the inner cities and in the communities that we come from, it's gonna take a lot more money or community based organizations. It's gonna take other leaders that got money that they could give to these communities. We're spending too much time hoping that the city and the lected officials are gonna bail us out through our fight, and we cannot depend on that alan So we need everybody invested because some way, some form. We got a part to play. We paid a part when we were young.

And I'm just speaking in general, but to really answer the question, through my work, I've seen violence go down through our partners, the life camps, the man ups, the organizations that are doing this work. The work we are doing is shown in our areas where we focus. People don't know where we at, so they understand that we focused on a small area and we focus on the small percentage of the same individuals that's pushing the button that's driving about. It's not everybody in our community, no

matter what they're trying to portray. So if you focus on all these individuals and throughout the city, throughout East Borough, and you are you pinpoint who the shooters are, you pinpoint the individuals that's pushing that, you'll be able to bring down the violence. Because our goal is stopping the transmission.

So every time somebody gets into our argument, we need to be able as as a people to be in that conversation to figure out how we could de escalate because somebody may be more upset than the other person and walk off and things over and it's not over. And we had that incident where our young tenure over was shotting far rockaway a parking spot, and if someone was able to have had that conversation after the argument to bring that brother down, we would have saved the

child's life. So that's what we gotta do it. On top of that, we gotta get these elders to step up. Mike, I know what we're talking about, these brothers. You know, I'm tired of brothers. Talking about these young boys is wilding and these younger man man ain't no young boy ever gonna tell me how to move out. Listen, these are our children, right, we have much more experience than we gotta. We gotta call a rold from under them.

We gotta we gotta run up in the in the their stage spaces, make sure they ain't got access to the things they got access to. We gotta be accountable for them. These are our children pulling the trigger because our children, So we're not the one stepping up the men that our women shouldn't beild the front line. All these guys is tough, the gangs, all these music is talking about it. The real toughness is in the streets, stopping a young person from killing somebody. And that's what

we gotta do. We gotta saturate community with leaders who are not afraid to get in front of that that gunna say this, and we're not doing that. Here's why, Amen, and I appreciate that we have had those conversations painfully and lovingly many times over the years, and certainly I think we've grown both of us from those conversations. So we love you so much and do thanks for joining street polities. YO, love you, bro. We talked to you later. So we have a beautiful guest with us today, someone

who has been through a lot. You know, we don't really talk about how women are impacted by gun violence. We talk about how brothers are locked up because of gun violence. Our brothers are losing their lives. For black women are definitely impacted. They are victims of it, they've seen it. They are mothers who've lost children. And today with who we have with us today is Miss Patience Murray. And I'm just glad in honor to have you with

us today. Patient, Thank you so much for that. Honestly, I know you understand what it's like to experience loss. The loss is always the transformational experience. I feel like that thrust you into your destiny and your purpose and Akira married. She was actually my sister in law. So I actually talked about it in the book Survived and Live, the Patient's Carter story. So I hate to ask for this, but unfortunately it's important to bring people to that night.

M M. You talked about this on a number of platforms moon times, but street politicians listeners may not have heard it or may need to be reminded. So can you take us back to that night you decided to go out with two friends. What happens? You guys are having a great time, and then what happens? Wow, we were having a great time. That's the most important thing. And anybody can just be out having a great time with their friends right at the club that night, it

was the best night ever. Like there's like really no other way to say it. It It was the best night ever. We had a blast. Akira, Tier and I were all there for vacation. That was the first night of vacation. Wow. All right, So I spent so I was actually shot in both in our life, and the bullet that entered my right thigh shattered my femur. So I have a metal ride and screws for the rest of my life, and I actually have a bullet fragment that's going to be there for the rest of my life unless it

gives me problems. But the reality is it was just vacation. It could have been anybody. It could have been any three girls walking into a club from Philly experiencing that situation that night. So and the fact that I'm even here, the fact that I'm alive, that I had breath, that's a miracle, the fact that I'm able to do all this stuff, and I wanted to get to it. I

definitely want to get to it. But I'm I'm the intending Chief Vision Officer for the Gun Violence Survivors Foundation, and I never understood how important it was to have a foundation just solely dedicated to survivors because I thought that there were all these resources for gun violence survivors, because my view of gun violence, being a gun violence survivor, was in this mass shooting. So I had this outpour

of community love and support from Orlando. But the reality is people experience gun violence every day and they don't get that or blood, they don't get out course support. So the Gun Violence Survivors Foundation basically is the foundation that answers, those unmettens, those unseen survivors, those people who feel neglected and feel forgotten. That's what I'm trying to address. We commend you, and you know you also have our condolences, and I was we just I just wish to have

the strength that you have. You know, it's not me. It's not me as God is my strength. And that's what I'm staring right now. And this is why I'm stepping into this leadership because it wasn't me for five years. I was crumbling for five years, crumbling pretending to be healed,

pretending to be happy, pretending to be this advocate. Right now, I'm finally where God has designed me to be, and it feels great, and I want to share this message with other people, Like, listen, you don't have to stay broken. You don't have to stay broken. And I can go through what I went through. You can make it through the average that you're going through right now. Wow, Well we are so thankful. Yes, tell us the name of

your book. Where can we get the book? Tell people how they can follow you, because you are a leader and you definitely need to be followed to give all the information so we can share it with the audience. Well, my book Survived and Lived is available everywhere it Survived and Live dot com and you can follow me on Instagram at p A. E. Carter. That easy. I think Maggie is with us. We just had Patience murray On

who attended Wounded but Alive. She was there for an incredible event that you hosted, and she just talked about her situation. I mean, obviously you know the story. She was shot in post nightclub. Um carda uh. And but she's now in an organization called Survived, Survived then Live, Yes, somebody live and she's doing great work. And um, my son and I thought that we didn't. We thought you would come another week. You know, we're doing a series

of about six shows on gun violence. But we wanted to be intentional by starting with this conversation around how women are impacted because not enough it's out there, not enough information, not enough conversation, is not enough resources and advocacy. And my son was saying, but we need Maggie On. We met patients through and here, Yeah, why did you why did you decide to start an organization? Um? I feel like when I got shot, I couldn't identified with anyone I felt like I was with. I was at

the time dating someone who also been shot. But I feel like a man being shot or a man being injured is way worse than a woman being injured. And they don't identify with us because you know, guys just you know, pick up and they're talked to. You shake it off, and we we deal with our own insecurities daily. I wake up, I'm worried about my hair, my eyelashes, this that now I have a bullet in my leg and a rod from my knee and my hip, and I know I can't run, No, I can't go to

the gym. And they see self conscious moments that I felt like I knew it was the other women out there that I needed to speak to. Mm hmm. Maggie, you know that you you're um, such a beautiful sister and your little sister to us, and we love you so much and and and I know the struggle, you know, I've heard you talk about the struggle of how deep it is, this mental space of of having to keep going but also having that memory of what took place

that night. You're just out having a good time. You weren't thinking in any way shape or form that you could get shot, that it would be you, of all the people it was, but it was you for a reason. It was you for a reason because you had the profile and the audience to be able to bring other women together to tell their stories. And um, and we want to continue to support you. We probably haven't done enough. Let's do more. How can people support you, you and

your organization right now? Well, right now we just have our Instagram up which is wounded but a live w B a UM. I'm also gonna take now that COVID

is like calming down. I'm gonna see how to get to different cities and just provide services, local services with the hairstylists and manicurists and massagists and then we all do our healing session where we sit in a group and we just talk and we let it out and then we drink and then we paint and then we I just want to do that just in every single state that I can touch, because gun violence is happening everywhere and us women are the ones that are being

hurt and we have no one to talk to about it. You know, once again, we love you, so we're gonna see love you guys that I love Maggie. Maggie has a beautiful spirit. She's amazing, and patients also has a beautiful spirit. Let's ime go to our guests human who is gonna be with us, um you know for the next and we try, y'all. We said for six, for a series of six episodes, we're going to focus very heavily on gun violence, the issue of gun violence. Intervention.

Prevention awareness is really important to us, um not just um here at street politicians, but also in our personal lives based upon our experiences, based upon um you know, our work and our passion and our focus in terms of what our organization Until Freedom does. And now we're gonna have a conversation with another brother, friend of our friend of you know. We've got so many friends, man, this show is just full of friends, man, you know. And this is somebody that I respect the work that

he's done, Doctor Chico Tillman. Hey, first of all, I want to say I'm humbled, and it's a pleasure to being be a part of this program because I respect and appreciate the work you do day in and day out and some of the challenges that come with the work. So it's really an honor just to be having this

dialogue on this platform with you. And I want to say publicly how much I appreciate the work you do and how I see firsthand all the sacrifices you make for our people to make this place, this country, a better place to live in for Indigenous people. Thank you so much, Chico. We appreciate that you know you are certainly our brother. Um. You know, I want to make sure that folks understand who we're talking to in this

series where we're focusing on gun violence. Each show has different things and the reason why we wanted to have you on as the senior research direct there for the University of Chicago's Crime and Education Lab. Um, I think and and my son and I were talking about what this series looks like. We have to have people elected officials, folks who are practitioners, folks who do mental health support, because this issue of gun violence is so much bigger

than just putting law enforcement in our communities. So that's why we wanted to have you on today. So Chico, tell us what you've been doing, what you're working on, and then of course we'll get into how people can be helpful. The first thing I want to say is thank you for recognizing that we can't arrest our way

out of it. And I want to start by saying that most people don't even think critically that when a situation happens, or for sit wation occurring, you don't call law enforcement till it reaches a particular point or escalates to a point where crime is being committed, and then it's too late, somebody already shot. So one of the things I'm working on with the Crime Lab is building systems and structures throughout the United States to change the way we look at it. UM. I think we have

to address the root causes of violence. A lot of it is systemic racism, um and and and it's it's in a plethora of spaces. It's not just. And what it does is it allows individuals who live in these vulnerable communities to be traumatized day and night, so that when they reach conflict, they already dealing with all these microaggressions and they're at a boiling point. So something is simple as an argument escalates to somebody being um killed.

So I say, first, gotta address these systems. And I love the work that you're doing because it addresses the systems. Another huge thing we're doing nationally. I'm working with a group of great minds from all over the country on initiative called fund Peace, And what we're doing is getting these resources down to the people on the ground who live in these vulnerable communities. When I say vulnerable communities,

I mean disinvested communities. And I think the big problem is people want us to work a miracle with short money. If you have only a certain amount of money, somebody's gonna be left out. And they're giving us a short amount of money to work out all the kings around violence. When violence occuraged for a plector reasons which the government needs to be involved because they helped create these situations.

And you know what I want to actually and then we're going backwards with this, but I just want you to give a little bit of your background, Like you know, where did you come from? You know your situation, how did you get to this place to where you're this esteemed doctor who understands our community and able to really give the solutions that's gonna change. Uh. First, I want to start by saying I'm from the Austin community, which is um numerically the most violent community in Chicago. Um,

it's one of the poorest communities. So I'm from the hood or the street. UM. I do have a background in a subculture group, which means I was and and in clear terms or vivid terms, I was a part of a game. UM. But I had an epiphany and I was sentenced to twenty years in prison under draconian crack sentence. But I should have only got three and a half years, So I did thirteen excessive years because of racial profiling and the criminalization of black people by

the United States government. Let me start there. So after in prison, I realized what a allowed me to be able to mentally go through this process was that I realized some of the things I was doing wrong and the influence I had on so many people. So I wanted to do something different, and coming home, I fell in love with this process of being able to save lives because it was a conflict between two groups and I knew both of the guys and I was able

to stop people from killing each other. And I'm gonna be honest, I never felt anything remotely closed to the joy and satisfaction that I got from saving a life. And I was bought into that process. But what I learned soon as I got into the process is that without education, I wouldn't be able to make any impact in terms of decision and that's what started me on this track or this role to going back to school.

And the difference from me and a lot of other people is I'm still connected to people in the street. My perception of people hasn't changed. I don't think they monsters. I think they just like me. They need pathways or opportunities to change their life and they need to be connected to people like me to know that its possible. So I still have relationships in my community. I still going my old community. I still love on them, guys. I'm patient with them because it was a process for

me to change. The day I was released, the expectation was that I'd be normal, as if none of that never happened. So I never received any services to help me psychologically transition back into society. Now I had a support system that helped me navigate. Imagine, for everybody that's arrested or go through that trauma, the pressures of getting out. In the first day, the first thing people talking about is getting a job, as if none of that had

ever happened. And I think we gotta work with these people and help them understand what you went through is not normal, no matter what you did to get there, and help them go through a transition period to get back acclimated to society. I say the same thing all the time, and especially you know being in prison. I didn't do as much time as you did, but just understanding this the dynamics, you know, and then being acts and just come back into a society and just you know,

and resume as if you've missed time. You you missed, you know, you missed generations. Like ten years is a decade, you know, so many things happen in two or three years. In two or three years being free, things have happened to have completely changed. So ten and sixteen and I'm seven years that I did it was it was. It was a real far stretch and it took a lot of time, and fortunately for us we had those support

systems man that was able to do it. So I just want to say, I commend you brother on the work that you do, you know, especially where you do it at Like you said, we just had you know, I was out there with you men and the spirit and the love that you bring to this work into this movement is needed and is appreciated. Man. So listen, fund Piece, we with you. We want to you know, we want if we wanted, whatever we can do to

help you know, we with you. We're gonna make sure that we we align with you once again, another one of our friends and our brothers keep doing the world. Brother, you appreciate that you are definitely one of the ones that are shining and these brothers definitely need you in

these streets. Man, if there's an organization out there, grassroots group that is looking for support and wants to become a part of the fund Piece program, want to make sure people understand clearly that fund Piece is a conduit to help grassroots organizers and organizations get resources so that they can do the work in their communities. And so, like you said, there are multiple pathways, but you all

have the knowledge base of how to do that. Where do folks go, how do they get in touch with you? Go to fund Piece now and you can you can sign up as a partner. We don't turn anybody away. And when you go to the site fund piece now dot organ dot com dot com, fund Piece Now dot com. Okay, and then you said, when you go to the site, it will tell you can sign up as a partner and come on Wednesday and have access to all the

material we have for free. So it's it's we're doing everything we can to try to help as many people as possible. So we are you know, Also as a part of this series, I think what's important is while we are covering those people who have the ability to make real like big change. So you know, someone like Chico, he is someone who with the work that fund pieces doing, they have the ability to really help support a lot

of people across thecation. Absolutely um. But at the same time, what I am also very very what makes me ful is people like patients, Mary who is a victim, Maggie Carry a victim who's turned their pain into purpose. And this brother who is joining us today, Kareem Nelson is one of those who we see at protests all the time. He's out there not just UM for you know, for

the issue around gun violence. Because certainly we've seen him in the Bronx in different places, marching to bring about change and to help curb gun violence and to bring UM gangs together. But also I've seen him at police brutality protests. I've seen him in so many different spaces out there as a real advocate. His name is Kareem Nelson again, and his organization is Wheelchairs Against Guns. Kareem, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you

for having mean. So let's start with the personal side. Um, Kareem, what happened to you? Um? I ran across a man in the complex seller drugs. I didn't want to be anymore, you know, I just exercise my cancer. And the day that I saw him was father's you know, he was doing what he was doing and I was totally frustrated. I had it done on me, but it was in the bushes, and you know, my frustration and my stupidity allowed me to put my hands on that man and

his friend, you know, shot me. That was June Fathers um my life. I never had a job. I don't know what working is. So they're putting a good shire. It was like like it's faring to me. They wanted to give me a check that was worth five hundred and eighty three dollars a month, and I had to live off them. I had to pay rent, I had to do all that you know, not never having a job, a little self esteem, I believing in myself that I could do better. I see him back to the streets

at this time. When I went back to the streets, UM, I put a federal federal charge for UH expiracy to just shooting fifty grants and more practical came. I lost my pulmit went the chail. UH. Four and a half years I changed the practical sho me I mean had early. I came home, still didn't learn my lesson, still thinking about the streets and trying to catch up, and my money not being the way I wanted it to be, you know, for doing dumb things untail like giving it,

you know, things like that. When I came home, I was behind the ball, but I had to catch up. Went right back to what I knew. This time, I trusted mine. My family member had a family remember that was in the streets. Awesome. You know we did this thing and thous of times between us. This one time when you know, we want to go through the business. He decided to take all the prey and all the money. Wasn't mind you know, some killer's money. It was some

good friends money. And you know the killer's money, their money, and I couldn't produce it. So that night gave back to see them me to the fan Caul of p drow Someway Dark and it was about you know, calling bags out the trunk to clubs one and I got scared. For the first half of my life, I really valued my life because I really got scared. You know, I know I played with them brothers, you know, Guard always with me, called Pod. He wasn't the only once there,

no more. So that was that they couldn't do what they had to do. I went home. I was funked up at the time. I had the bar to my my moms and these things back there brand I gave it back their bread and that night over fourteen makes two thousand fourteen, I sat in my bed and I put I finally understood while I was the purpose of me then his wheel chap was to help out the young gun that looked like they sound like that, you know, and come f where I come from, don't have to

have a gocal it. So that's my story I ain't proud of. It is real. It's real, and it's real, and it's it's it's a familiar story. You know, with the with the exception of the wheelchair, I know a lot of people have that same similar story. So all of these programs that that we see out here now, um, you know Wheelchairs against Guns, uh, you know life Camp, um uh, you have g MAC, you have who else I'm a man up. You have all of these different organizations.

You're saying we didn't have access to that. You didn't have access to those types of organs at the time. Not at all, not at all. It says, that's why the kids that they don't realize the duty of what they got, you know what I mean, they got real people that you know, done what they've done, lived the life that they're trying to live coming back talking to you know what I mean, they don't really realize that,

you know. I mean that's Sam Pop because you know, sometimes when I turn the lowse on it the mounting and I hey about all these kids din't kill I feel like I'm not doing my job. I feel like I feel you know, I mean, I left a lot of kids and limber and limber with my neighborhood that just got that selling drugs and doing stupid ship's cool and I take the plane for that you know. I mean that's another reason why I get back so hard. You don't have no on it. Every time you see

me or you see my organization. We out there on my time, you know, and I'll make it and I'll make it work, you know when DS be done and allowed me to continuity to restad you know. So wow, So you don't have the you don't you're not funded at all in the cure, in the crisis management system

or any of that. Oh wow. And that's and I think that's what the issue is for me, is just understanding that the brothers like you to have a story that is relatable, that the young brothers in our community will be able to relate to, and you can change them and redirect them and you know, in a different direction. But yet our government and the organizations don't see the need and the necessity to fund people like yourself, but they want to spend that money to incarcerate our young kids,

right you know. So I think the preventatives, the preventative messages, I mean, methods are the things that we need to focus on. You know, Brothers like yourself need to be funded. Man. So I just want to say we commend you for the work that you're doing. We commend you just being alive. You know, wait, tell us what Wheelchairs against Guns actually does? And then also how can people directly support you? What

does will? What does Wheelchairs Against Guns do? Our so purpose is to protect children from the dams of bullying, games and don mines. You know, like I'm not a children on the site, but I'm really heavy schools. That's my main I stick with the school. We've done over two hundred schools. You know, we just spoke to over two thousand students. I've been going going in the school since since the acception of Whack, which was two thousand

and fourteen. And given everything, I can't it's counting schools. We get it too, countless chids whose last chance. I wouldn't started a company and non medical transportation company. When my company we transport la people assessed right, you know, assess Brian uh Term and all those states. So I have cars on the street that transport these people. When I started this company, it for the sole purpose to

fund my organization. If I don't know how to ask, you know, so you for me in touch for anybody that you know directly the acts part it would be a huge you know, huge beneficial to How can we support you directly? I mean, you know, we got a website will just gets Guns at All. You can go on there and you can make a contribution you need, you can, don't They did and find out the programming will be doing with a problem. Everything great at guns. Thank you so much, Thank you man for the brother.

I appreciate you man. The work you're doing. This phenomenal and your story is so real and raw and you know, and a lot of times that's what these kids need and that's what they respect. They respect the rawness. They understand authenticity. You can't trick these kids. You can't make believe that you've done saying that you ain't you know. They know how to smell it on you. If it ain't know you, they know what ain't know on you.

So we appreciate you coming from that perspective. Brother, Continue to do the world and listen to Hey, you say that you actually have a transportation company and that that's how you fund your work. Is so important because a lot of people look at us and think that I don't know, I guess they think money just drops off the skies or that folks just just just donate and invest,

you know, millions of dollars. That's not our situation. There are some people who have that, but unfortunately until freedom does not. And therefore each one of us, of the four co chairs of our organization, Angelo Pinto, is an attorney. He actually does his work every day as a lawyer. Linda Sarsur, she does political work, she works on campaigns,

she does consulting work. I also, aside from being a speaker, um, you know who is requested to do major speeches across the country, but I also have a consulting firm and I do real work working with corporations, working with agencies. And then my son is an artist. Um, he also is a consultant. And so we we understand. We appreciate you, appreciate you, Canni any time this is it Like for me, this six episode series is like really important, and it's

important for people like Kareem. No, we're not glorifying his story, but his story is a story that so many having if we can, the fact that God saved him from so many different things means that he's supposed to be

here to tell somebody something. And I'm that's what I want to be a part of the reason why I think it's it's so important to have you on today, Man Baraka, and why my son and I really wanted to have you as a part of this six episode series that we're doing about gun violence is because you

are approaching it exactly as um. You know, we support what we believe, and that is that you could put all the police you want in the streets, but if you don't invest in the people, uh, you would never be able to produce gun violence and to save lives. So we just wanted to hear from you today, to hear more about what you're doing. Yeah, we I mean thank you. I mean, I'm honored to be on. First of all. Uh, I appreciate you having me on. You know, we just in the middle of of of of hard work.

You know, there's a lot of talk, a lot of stuff going on around the country. We are just really trying to lay one brick out of time and it's it's it's it's hard, as I was expressing earlier, you know, in an environment you know where we're trying to create opportunity for social justice, opportunities for people in our community and deal with gun violence. Uh, that's escalating uh, in

our neighborhoods, you know. And one of the biggest critics of all of the things that you're gonna have to deal with in terms of trying to do this work are people that live in these neighborhoods, mothers, grandmothers, you know, folks that are raising kids in these communities, that are that are you know, experiencing hard high levels of violence.

And just to put it in perspective, like eight and of the neighborhoods and Newark do not experience violent crime at all, Right, So that looks like that sounds like a good number. Uh. And and we got just from Rutgers when they did their study. But that means that of the community is experiencing of the violence, right. Uh. And so if you're in the eight percent, then you're like, oh, it's all good. But if you're in the of those neighborhoods, uh,

then you have a real serious problem, a dramatic problem. Uh. And so we we have to figure out how to deal with both of those things, like how to create an atmosphere where we make the police respect our constitutional rights, where social justice is is at the forefront of everything that we do. Uh. And and and and reducing violence and crime. And so we think that public safety is not just the role of the police. Public safety is

the role of all of us in this community. UH. And so we need to give give resources to other people in other areas where it's needed to help us reduce violence and crime and trauma UH that has been incurred in our community over decades. UH. And so the police can't deal with those issues. And so that speaks directly to the idea of removing some funding and moving in another places to help, uh, you know, stabilize the community. So if violence is down, the need for police is down.

Over policing in those communities is down. And and and that's really how we're approaching it. Violence is a public health issue. We created an Office of Violence Prevention and Trauma Recovery. Keepha Uria is doing an outstanding job trying

to put this together. And she's building it, you know, actually going you know, pulling community partners together, have a lot of consultants trying to figure out how to get this done, pulling all of the street organizations that do all of the violence intervention and prevention work together, everybody and UH, trying to get data UH and making sure that we UH tackle hot spots in areas, deal with trauma, dealing intervention and kids lives and helping families from domestic

violence to shooting victims, uh, everything that they're involved in right now this summer, I think what Jamilla is talking about, we uh as a part of our youth development program, we hired and even some adults now over one hundred, maybe hundred and forty. I think folks who are directly involved with the legal with the legal system, uh, directly involved in terms of shootings or shooting victims. UH. We

we created our own program. We paid them uh to go listen to speakers, to go to forums, to to deal with trauma, training, to to to face the issues they're dealing with in their lives, to prepare them uh to to stop the violence that they involved in the community, and help them get employment. And that's that's what we're working on uh this summer, amongst a myriad of other things. Because as a young kids, you're very impressionable. And I remember when I was, like I said all the time,

my first vision of success wasn't a lawyer. I didn't live next to it to a lawyer. I lived next to it to a job deal. So I wanted to be like the drug deal he had the girl I wanted to call, wanting all the things I wanted was this was the person I've seen it. So look, the data tells us if you grow up in a household where your siblings or parents have been inconserrated, you're more

likely to be in conserrated yourself. You grew up in a household where you've been a victim or perpetrator vviolence, you're more likely to be a victim perpetrator violence yourself. So we identify, we know who these kids are like. We can identify the social services system, know the law enforcement system, know the community, know it's it's a it's less than two three of the people in the community

that's committing nine of the violence that's going on. So we know where they are, we know how to identify, and we know the atmosphere that's going to create them. So we have to intervene immediately. We know what's getting ready to go down, and to watch it happen almost makes us co conspirators in it. That's a fact that's

deep makes us co conspirators. It's it's so true. So we have to invite you back as we continue to go through this series, UH, to have more dialogue about the steps that need to be taking because people will act like they don't know what to do. Well, you're a shining example of how to get it done. Thank you. Alright, So we just spoke to Mayor Ross Broca and he spoke to us about this person that we're about to

interview right now. She is Lakisha Yuri. She is the executive director of Violence Prevention and Trauma Recovery in Noworth, New Jersey. She's does all the work because Ross rock the is the Mayor of New Ork and he has so much on his plate. She is the go to person for all everything violence prevention and intervention inside of New New Jersey. She had handled so much I've worked up. She is a phenomenal sister. Lakisha Jury, how are you doing today, Clean? I am good. Thank you so much

for having me on the show today. Thank you so much. Mabel Rocket was telling us that, um, the police and I guess in conjunction with your office and others, have identified those people who are crisis there any crisis, so they, you know, are folks who would have been identified as the troublemakers, the potential shooters, and you all are working with them. And I know you say the office that you have said that the office you're working on, Um,

it's in progress, but this work is already happening. It's just that at some point you guys are gonna have a center which I hope will become a national model, even an international model for how you bring violence down and how you work directly with the community. But every day at this point, you're you're doing this work, working with these young people, trying to get them employed and to keep them off the streets and line, is that correct?

That's correct. So what we find is the data says that four percent and sometimes even ten percent of the population experienced the most crime and violence, or the small amount of people are committing the most crime and violence. And so rather than coming up with this approach where we are blanket, you know, doing strategies, it's focused, determined, right, we go right directly to the people who are committing the priming violence and talking with them and seeing what

is it that you need? Why are you robbing people, why are you shooting people? Why did you join the game that you're a part of, why are you, you know, stealing cars and just really trying to ask those questions and figure out what is it that we can do to get to the underlying portions of it. We have UM people, So the police do have a list, and they have a lot of intelligence around who people are, what's happening, and what they're doing, and their strategy is

just to arrest them. That's the only strategy. But we're saying no, that that's not enough because we have this cycle of violence that continues to happen if we just keep arresting people UM because they're doing things from behind the wall, inside the wall, outside the wall, and so we want to find out what is going on. So

we are UM implementing. So right now I have a summer program UM and we're gonna extend it beyond the summer UM and it's called Safe Summer Academy, where we went after and recruited those people that we know are creating the most crime and violence in the city and we employed them. So I currently have a hundred and twenty individuals UM fourteen to seventeen, eighteen to twenty four

and then the twenty five and over UM groups. I have about four sights, and these are the people that we know are creating the crime and violence or have been victims of and we are trying to intervene so that they don't become the perpetrators of And many of them have mental health issues, subsist issues, have been incarcerated, have dropped out of school, and so we're very intentional

about this population. And we recognize some of the issues, and we recognize trauma and so many of the staff of Trauma Informed Trains and so we know what it takes to be able to engage them. What is your skills set? So my skill set is is an organizer. Right I started on the grounds many years ago. Um I organized. I'm a chair for the North Anti Violence Covalition. But before that, right I was in the New Black Panther Party and before that, you know, so organizing people

in the community has has been um my passion. But by trade and by education, I'm a social worker. I'm a licensed clinical social worker, have a master's degree in social work. But my heart and my passion is organizing people. And say it's say the work is not being done. I tell them that's not true, because we've got people who are on the front lines all the time. People no sleep because people don't understand what it takes to

organize people. They don't understand that the phone calls have to happen, that we at the hospitals with people, we at the funerals with people, were organizing the funerals, we're doing, we're calling the mayors, and we're doing all of the things. Um that the behind the scenes that it takes to get in front of the cameras or to make the

awareness happen. So when I first joined the North Anti Violence Coalition, the way that we brought attention to violence was by going into to the streets and stopping the traffic. And so we stop the traffic for a hundred and fifty five weeks in the rail rain sleeps no no

matter the weather condition. To bring awareness to it for families who wasn't our own families, right, we have to push the police, and we're going from county to county and police department to police department, and those things take. It takes skill, it takes ingenuity, it takes energy, it takes sleep, it takes resources, It takes all of those

things to be able to bring about change. And so I don't want people to dismiss the skills that it takes for those things to happen, but the energy and the passion because many of us this has been on our doorsteps and we're trying to stop it from landing on other people's doorsteps. We appreciate you so much and it feels good to be able to highlight your work

because I know that you wear it on your sleeve. Um. And you know I have to be the one to say because I think it's important, and I think the mayor would say as well. With all that he's trying to do and the fact that he's folding a million directions. As my son said, um, you know when when we first bought you on uh, he has he has responsibilities

that are beyond violence prevention and intervention. And to have a strong black woman sitting in this seat helping to coordinate and organize people, I know it makes the mayor proud as well. That's why he mentioned you during his interview. And we want to do whatever we can to support you and to make sure that you were able to keep the statima and the energy to keep going. And so thanks again, thanks for talking with us, and know that we are here the show is here, but we

are also here personally to support you. But this is the lady. I've read her rio and she is amazing as well. Joining us today is Ms Tabell from the Trip of Project. She's also a grassroots organizer and who focuses on gun b She's been impacted family members, friends, and she utilized her pain and she also turned into purpose. So thank you to your Bill for joining us. Yeah, yeah, I want to again just say I'm grateful to to

be on this platform and share my unique perspective. UM. I'd like to believe that God designed my life to join this fight and really ending gun violence. And it's reaffirming, unfortunately that our deep wounds required deep, deep, deep killing. UM. The Trigger Project stands for true reasons. I grabbed the gun, evolved from risk, and as a survivor. I almost lost my mom when I was ten. She was shot twice in broad daylight. It wasn't a shock, you know, UM,

I knew who had did it. UM. And there wasn't a Shan Duke to come to me and say, hey, let me get a full understanding of what you know that happened. Let me get you on the basketball or so you can release your feelings that me um support you, mentor you, so you can figure out what you're gonna eat, so you don't think you're burdening your mom who's healing,

you know, I didn't have that. So just with the combination of losing friends, after I'm almost losing my mom, losing my stepdad, now losing young people, I realized that the voice of the shooter is missing. So when you say trigger project, you you you you embody the voice of the shooter because we all have a trigger finger, but no one's asking the question black or white? You know, wife just the best guys was just stick as my baby's like to say, was landing in the middle of

the street. Why would some people be able to just walk past them? Likely nothing? And why would some people see it as a commodity, see it as a resource, see it as a language. You know, we we're criminalizing our culture and our music versus really getting to the source of our pain. And and that's what the Trigger Project is about. I do a lot of fundraising and and asking and and and presenting and proposing because my young people need beds, they need legos for their brothers

and sisters. So they don't go rob somebody to get the money to do it. I'm competing with the streets. And so earlier you asked, is money a solution? Um, it absolutely is, because first, I think doing things that we do should receive uh compensation. You know, I work as a full time high school counselor. I'm often the summertimes. I go hard in the summer because I'm paid for my nine in the five and and I got free time, you know, but I'm also the mother of a three

year old and this work is NonStop. You know. Young people don't have boundaries. They're not supposed to, you know, they're asked the in requests are are substantial, and it may be from fixing a broken nail to doing a college application. But my time, my opportunity, and and and my don't sling my supervision, uh my team who also

pours into these young people. That's the solution, um. And we need the government, we need city officials, we need philanthropists to really get on the side of thinking outside the box. Um, because it may look like intervening and stopping the police, but it also may look like just giving a young person a hundred dollars Because they just misplaced this ZIP and they gonna do something to get

it back. And so I need Um, I needed this platform and I needed this opportunity because I do believe public health in our way through this is the solution. And um, I do believe that I am in addition to violence interruption into just this progressive transformation that all Black cities have made. Returning citizens are running the city. And UM, I do believe that I am in addition to violence interruption and to just the progressive transformation that

all Black cities have made. Returning citizens are running the city, you know, um. And it's a beautiful thing and it shows that transformation is real. Tell that's how people can support the Trigger Project. I'm Ta Bell, Founder the Trigger Project, Jack to true reasons I grabbed the gun, evolved from risk, were the voice of the young inns and the shooter. And our website is www dot the Trigger Project dot org. We're on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at the Trigger Project DC.

And we do have a cashot because we're not that big yet. So it's dollar sign Trigger Project and you are donating to and supporting again the nourishment, the enrichment, UM just the betterment of the young people that I served. You know what, we really literally have a lot of friends that do a lot of grea things, you know, And I know sometimes we always say what we need to find people that we don't necessarily agree with on issues and make sure they are part of the show.

But I do I always wanted to create a platform that gives voice to folks that people don't see often. And then you have Phil Banks who started out twenty nine well, for twenty nine years he worked within the NYPD, started out of course as a beat cop, then became a precinct commander, Borough commander, went to community affairs, which

is where the beginning of our relationship is. Where he's now over the police officers who are in the community all the time, and was leading an effort and did a very good job of reshaping what community affairs look like in New York City and making sure that it was really really for the community. And then, of course before retiring, he became Chief of Departments UM, where he was literally, I guess I would say, second to the

commissioner running New York City UM. And I got an opportunity to go from community affairs to chief a department, so I understand the intricacies of the NYPD and policing across the country based upon my relationship with you, Phil, and I want to thank you for coming on with my son and me today. Um. You know the thing. The thing I laugh about though, is because you know, many times I would go and say, well, you know, the police are doing this, that and the third thing wrong,

and He's like, who are you talking about Pookie? I know Pookie, like I was out there with Pooky needs to be arrested because Pooky is a danger to society. I'm like, no, he needs services. Yeah, he might need all of that, but right now we need to get Pookie off the streets. Like, don't tell me about Pooky and Ray Ray. Because going through all of these steps from being a beat cop all the way to chief

of departments, he knows the community. He lives in Queens, he has young kids, he has brothers who are in all different feels people and lives in He knows and understands the street life very well. Works with Erica Ford. So this is not so you can't really talk him, you know, into these corners, because he actually has things to say that you have to be able to address at the same time, but clearly he understands the need

to put in the community. You understand the need feel to put in the community to resources that's necessary so that police are not in contact, um in the ways in which they are with individuals who need services and support. Absolutely, And you know, I think you're bring up an interesting point. And I think that until we as a as a city, as a country, as a community, as a world come to the conclusion on both sides that police ain't one can no longer be just the responsiblity of law forcement

because they can't get it right right. You know what you know and importantly most people don't know what they don't know right, so they just fill in the blanks right. And it's subsequently we have now, in my opinion, um, a dynamic with police reform and tough on crime. People think a mutually exclusive. When I say tough on crime, I mean I mean keeping a citizens safe, but you

have to have peace reform. And in these cities we are policing the same way we've been policing for fifty and sixty years and it has to stop because it doesn't work. And our challenge that it never worked. It gave short time results, but I will challenge that has never had full time results. But that's an argument that

a lot of people can make. But I do know vehemently and I will strongly is that we have to change the way we police these cities, and that change has to come from a combination of the law enforcement world who's willing to admit mistakes, willing to realize that they don't have all the answers, and then the advocacy where the activists commune like itself they realize that there's an aspect of this that you may not realize what you can bring to the table, and we can bring

to the able together that we can totally change how we police. I actually don't see any other way that we can have any type of a fair, ineffable and safe results for for this for the country. So from your point of view, what do you think is the next step? What do you think really needs to be done to either to stop the violence and build stronger police and community together. So there's no there's no one answer to that. But the first thing is this is

that you have to have a system. When I say you the community right to people and even internally because internally you have police services that not that that don't even trust the the concept of policing. You have to build that trust, and that trust is not designed to take people to basketball games, not to take seniors to UH shopping. There's got to be a real trust that government is working for other people and that policing is

here to help my life better. Right, the litmus tests has got to be when the average person who is not communic a crime which is not inopercent of us, not are not point five center us, when they see a police services, they feel relieved, that they feel happy, and the police have to figure that out why why does that not happen? And I'm going to profess that they are a very simple solution that people are willing

to stop and listen. It's not as complicated. Once you have that trust, then you have to be able to make these policies that are coming out that are beneficial for the community. So I'll give you a point in an example, when we in a police apartment come out with the strategy and let's just say it's gun strategy to apprehend guns off the street. There's no community involving it at all. We just we're coming up with just the data the people who wear uniformed and this is

what we think that's going to happen. There's gonna reduced amount of gus's on the street, but there's no there's there's the religious community, there's no point in that, the active community does no point in that, the grandmother community does not no pint in that industry does no pot in that. And there's so much that we could receive from these individuals, from these entities that we can now

come up with. They're very comprehensive, stronger strategy to being goes up the street where everybody's in the same boat, and everybody now is going to live and die with those results. And we don't do that because we have been brought up in a system that we know what's best for you. So sit back and that mindset has got to has got to change. Immediately when you became chief of departments, things changed because you was really the

big fish, like you were running the police department. Um and I see the work that happened, and I know the direction that you were taking the NYPD, and I think it was unfortunate that you were not And I know this is not your words, as mind I think it was unfortunate that you were not UM appointed to be commissioner. I think you would have done an incredible job at commission. I still think that you should be

drafted for the commissioner job under the new mayor. But I appreciated when you were within the Community Affairs Department. When you ran that department, I saw and learned so much about what the NYPD could be UM, And so I hope that you know. And now I'm being honest with you. While I think that you know, those individuals who are there now do I think that they're trying to do a good job, certainly, but it's not the same aggressive, bold work that I saw happening when you

were in that position. So sometimes we rise in the ranks, and it's good that we make it to other successful places, but sometimes the work that we were doing before we got to this, you know, high profile, high calling UM was actually more effective. So that's just my personal opinion. Thanks, thank you so much, PP three, Chief Phillip Banks, thanks for being with Thanks for having me. Thank you. That's how you have dupe friends man his brother right here,

somebody who I've watched throughout two years. You know, somebody that I've modeled, and you know, I've been mired from Afar and then became really close with him just watching him do his coming home from prison, you know, coming home from prison and understanding his purpose, you know, and directing from the street life and changing his whole trajectory making movies and making documentaries. This amazing workman, family man man.

He was. He was doing any of the first person you see the interviews with Do rags On, like he made it cool from the beef, from the hood and just transition and not making it look corny. You don'tunderstand I'm saying. So I just want to say, welcome to your brother saying some styles he has. He has a documentary or what is it, a documentary called Killer the Beef. Yeah, thank you, Yeah, I appreciate you all. Um, we all in this together for sure. Um. The documentary is called

killing Beef. Come balancing the Black community. That's right. So what what is killing the Beef about? Killing beef? It's about Um, it's a double on time. So we know beef. Killing beef can be somebody taking somebody head off, which is killing beef, and it could be you know, a resolution resolved in the beef, which is, you know, kill that beef, squash it, debt it right. So I used that, um,

because that's what I did in that documentary. I killed the beef for one of the guys that shot me up in eight eight I got shot five times by two two cats, and um when one of the cats,

he had came home from prison. When he came home, instead of us continuing the beef, you know, we wind up getting together and talking to these youth and shaming our story and UM, youth that was in detention centers, alternatives and conservation programs in schools, and the way we did it, it was done in such a way that was so unpactful. UM. I said, yeah, I gotta start recording this. I gotta start recording these sessions and make something out of it because people are not gonna believe it.

This type of stuff don't usually happen. So we put the doct together and it's been like very successful. People that watch it. You know, it's been positive response, no negative response whatsoever. I mean not one negative comments saying any anything bad about it. So this person shot you and then you guys got together, How did you find him? And what was that like this is like common what happens in the hood, right, Um, this is in the eighties when I used to you know, I used to

rob drug dealers. I to stick up drug dealers and you know I used to, Um, I used to be one of those active shooters in the neighborhood. So what happened is I robbed somebody for their stuff. Um, you know I had robbed this stool, stuck him up, tied them up and stuff, and took everything that was in a safe and its jury. So I thought it was his, but come to find out and belong to this other He made me think it was his, and like he's bawling like that. So I got him, but it belonged

to another guy. The guy that it belonged to grew up and my and my family's building, so to the point that one of his nephews is named after my uncle. So back in the streets, I guess, you know, in those days, it doesn't matter. So when he rolled up on me about the situation and with his guns out, it was, I mean with his gun out. It was on the fourth of July when he rolled up on me. You know, I tried to convince him to go around

the corner because there's too many kids outside. The fourth of July was a cookout, so there's a lot of action and stuff going on. So I was like, you know, let's go around the corner until and one thing left to another. I want to give too much away because I even have this in the film, but but what happened is, um, the guy that I also robbed was with him that I didn't see. So now I had two guns pointed at me, and um, you know, the

endless alt was I wind up getting shot up. So the guy that came behind me, I knew who he was, but the people in the area didn't know who he was. And and and you know, my family members didn't know, so he he didn't get in any trouble for it. Smoke. Uh, that's the guy who shot me up. He I mean one of the guys, the one that lived in my

grandmother's building. Everybody around the neighborhood knew who he was, so that was that was dumb, you know on his part, to let that the bullets fly, amount the kids, kids jumping, you know, people was pistol off. My family no him, they thought I wasn't gonna make it so you know, they testified on a lot of the people in the neighborhood testified on, so I didn't. And you know, he thought that he would be able to beat the trial

because I wasn't coming to court. But they used the testimony of other witnesses and then my hospital report, and you know, he still got convicted. So when he came home him, Uh, by the time he came home, I was at b T and I'm doing I'm doing great stuff. Now my life changed totally around. And then I got the message my aunt had um text me and said, you know, this guy's out of jail. So then I started running a little bit because I said, man, I want to get pulled back in, you know, to this

to this type of life. So I asked my aunt do she knows where he's staying at? And that was just for me to know in case something happened to you know, to if if he was gonna come looking for me, then I would be pulled into the game right all over again while I'm doing this great work already at b T. That that was that thin line between the streets and where I was at now being legal.

So um, I had his one and his boys reached out to me because he didn't want to see nothing happened to me, and he didn't want to see nothing happen to him. So he reached out to me and said, Yo, what you talk to do You would you mind sitting down and talking to him? And I said, yeah, I talked to him, you know, gave him my numbers to tell him to call me. So when he called me, you know, we spoke for a couple of hours on

the phone. At first conversation. We spoke for a couple of hours about the incident, about what was wrong about the incident, um about how the young ones are coming up now, and and and and what he was doing in prison as far as he was facilitating talking to the young to try to you know, the young people coming to prison, to try to deter them from going back to that way of life from what I was

doing on the outside. So it was a perfect match for me to invite him because I was talking he's speaking to you that detention centers and stuff, just being on BT and them knowing where I came from, They was listening to me, They was relating to me. So I said, I might as well bring him on with me to tell I was story and at the same time, we could become valuable to each other so we don't

have to worry about killing each other. If I'm valuable to you and I'm bringing you around and you know I'm helping you, and our main focus is to help these young people be on the right track and we on that same page, then we could do this together. This is about gun violence and all of the you know, the violence is going on our community. I want you to give us like a final word that you would say to these young kids that out here shooting, Like

what what do you tell them? You know, being a victim also being a shooter, just understanding both dynamics of what's going on, just seeing what's going on these streets right now? What would you say to them? Like you, if you had to say what you say right now, right now, I would tell to you that are pulling those triggers, to know your history, man, to understand why if you act in the way that you do, because the more you understand, the less likely you are to

put up that trigger. And to know that this isn't because your animals, or that you will raised a certain way and or that you had bad parents, and although some of that may play a part, but the main thing is that it's the socio economic conditions that we're in that causes us to happen. And before black people started occupying these spaces, they would immigrant white people that would occupying their spaces, and they had the same exact

problem that we have today. They had a violence, white on white violence, which wasn't stated white on white violence, but they had the same thing going on. And what happened the government came in, They gave them the gr loans, they helped subsidize they moved from the urban areas into the suburbs, and then had them um get homes, affordable homes which later increased in value. And that's what ceased

that white on white violence. A lot of people don't know that that's what we're fighting for, Stance, and we appreciate at you so much for coming on and we want to support you. Tell everybody again the name of your film and also where they can find it. Thank you. Um. The documentary is Killing Beef Gunfoalance in the Black community. You can see it on two B t V. You can see it on Amazon, you can see it on Apple TV. Xbox fandango. Um, it's it's all low you'll

see it. Yeah, absolutely, thank you. We love you. App work to do, man, we got work to do. I'm gonna hit you later. That's up. Thank you. Thank you for the love making us the number one in the world, number one, No, not in our minds. Just keep on the best best podcast in the world. And right, let's let us know what you feel. If you've got any topics ideas, tell us how great we are, tell me how awesome I am. How much you like my hat? You can go get it. It's online. You know what

I'm saying. Support us. I'm not always be right to me because I can always be wrong. But we will both I guarantee you we will both always always be authentic peace. That's how we owed it. That's how we owed it. That's how we owed it.