Boycott Black Murder

friends that street Politicians is a real thing. We have tried our best over the last several shows, all our shows to bring information that people want to hear UM, to ensure that's that's important relevant communities. It's not always UM, you know, political, but I believe we believe that everything we do is political, from the food we eat, to the drinks that we have, to the fund we try to have, to the things that happen in our communities,

even sexist political. So whatever we're talking about somehow or another, it circles back to how it impacts our community. Sexist political, I mean it is. You got to think about it because it's very political. But I mean, you need UM, you need UM. Somebody got to sign off. Well, you mean that consent. You need political agreement. You need to get a political agreement. Political that would be legal. Politically

you said it's political, so we need political agreements. Men, get you a sign before you do anything these days, get you signed is done. And I think that even if you sign something which means that there is a contrast in the midst of it, you can say I don't want to do it, and that's it. That's like it. The protection is not to be doing stuff you shouldn't be doing. What do that mean? So just me, the only thing a man could do is just not have sex. No,

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that you should know. First of all, the amount of people who go out and report that there's been a rape or some type of assault is very very low. Let's just speak clear. So that's not a thing. It's not like every time or a lot of times that women have sex they say I was raped. Okay, so we're not gonna start

that narrative. But but if you are having sex with a woman and at some point she decides that I don't want to do it anymore, I don't like it, you stink you're hurting me, um whatever, stop And there are many men. So there's some men. Let me not say many, because I don't know many, but I will I corrected myself. There are some men who will not stop because they feel like, hey, I'm gonna get off first, and then we can you know, you can go. What what I was saying in those situations is there's a

heightened sense of tension at that point. Right, so after we've already gotten to a point and you've allowed a man to enter and you said, okay, we're good, and then mid stroke, when man feel like he about two more strokes from his completion and you like stop. He probably don't even hear you, he's so engaged. And that's what I'm trying to tell you. So there there is a very very but he has That's what I'm trying to tell you. And the reality is that most men

are not hearing. But by the way, I don't think that that's most number one, but there are a lot of men that are not. Don't even they not even when you're talking to them. But see, but that that that actually lends itself to a larger problem. The problem is the idea that the woman is meat and not a human, because if you're dealing with the human and you're having sex, you are supposed to be into him with what is being said back and forth and the

feeling of what is happening. Naturally, several women women who don't stop with the several ways, and I'm not saying that, I'm trying to explain to you that is a natural reaction through outside. No women that you're having said and you be like wait, wait, and they're like no, no, they get they get to a point and then they won't stop and hold you like what are you doing? No, no, don't move from there. No, no, wait, wait because I'm still trying to get off. It is very different from stop.

And by the way, we as women have been trying many can I just finish my point? Because can I finish what? I don't understand what that means. You would actually let me finish my point, and then you would understand. There is a weight that is associated with don't move a different way, don't change whatever you're doing because I'm trying to get to a climax right there is that that's a different type of weight what we are now talking.

Can I finish my point. And in order for you to understand, you actually have to be willing to listen than rather to speak, because you will never but you will not, but you will not. Let you don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not finished. I'm not I'm

not finished. What we are attempting to do as women now is to have more conversations about what a real stop sounds like, because what has happened is that in the past we try to be nice about it or trying to you know, funago, and then you're right, it's mixed signals that's being sent in the middle of a situation that then when it's over, you serious and the person didn't recognize that you were as serious. So now we're having more conversations, especially with young girls. We're trying

to have those conversations. I've been seeing it in circles about what stop really means. At what point when you when you want someone to stop, what do you actually say that means? Stop? Now, I don't want to do the same one not you know or waite or whatever, no stop, and the other person should hear stop, right, don't you think you think? Okay? So now that's what I'm trying to say if you hear when I'm to you,

But you just made a hole about you talked about women. Right, my thing when you said to stop because you're in the right position. I was talking about a man, right. I was having a conversation about when a man is saying stop, and you're trying to say you in the right position, and I don't want you to stop, and he's saying to stop, right, you you equated things. I'm so glad that among our production crew, this young lady

is looking like, what is he talking about? So what I was talking about I was told when when I gave you my instants, right, I said, there are times when men are having sex, right, and a man be like wait, wait, wait, they stopped because and a woman is like, no, no, no, don't stop. Right, And you said you're confused about Are you still confused about what I'm saying. I'm gonna listen, okay, no, because you look confused. I want to stop, but I don't. I don't want

you to be confused. Might get to the point where so the point is when a man is saying stop, right, is their responsibility for the women to stop? Absolutely? Okay? So what I'm trying to tell you is that women don't stop. And what I am saying to you, they don't. So when I'm trying to tell you the same the same thing that you're saying, because I've been a victim

of those things. I've been having sex or whoever and didn't got mad about probably something or or was in the middle of it, like now I don't feel like doing They'm like no, no, they're not stopping. And when they get to your point where they feel like they're about the climax, they're not stopping because you said stop,

my son. I think that what you're what you're getting are not understanding is that it doesn't matter who's doing what you're saying, that there's a problem with the way in which people are engaging in sex that is creating a situation. I think we're problem are confused. I didn't mean it this and that. Now with somebody saying I don't, I meant I said out what what else is it? Because I have been a victim of I want you

to get you and I'm not. And I don't want to disregard anything that you're saying because that is your personal situation. And if you were violated, then it needs it needs to be rectified, and you need to and somebody need to be held to come whatever the situation. I'm saying, there are situations right that the problem, what the problem is for me, is that accountability in sex seems to only fall on the man, right whenever there's

a situation if too. I was listening to a conversation, if too, if we both getting drunk, me and you both drunk at the same time, not me and you, me and another one, we both drunk, we both take it the same thing. I'm gonna need read it. You would need read whose whose responsibility is to know who's too high to have the sex right or who's too drunk to have is that? Who is the response? But what happens is it always falls on the man all

of these situations. If we're if we're both in the situation, we're both having sex and boom women, it gets heated and I'm hamped up and up, and you decide that that point that you don't want to do it no more, or you said no it's too much, and you put your and I and I go one too many and you're like, I didn't know, and I actually climate, because if if a man climax during it and like I didn't know, I didn't know, you wouldn't stop at that point,

he's completely violated the situation, right, So who so so so? First of all, what I'm saying is that the scenario that you just laid out is generally not what's happening where people are claiming rape. What women are saying is I passed out, I was out. That's not really true that if what happened they say that they no, no, no, no, no. What I'm trying to say, no, no, no, that is not accurate in most of the situations out here. There

are situations. So you're saying that people are reporting this is what you're saying, and I would like for our guests to write in about this. Are you saying that the majority I'm not saying, but you said, just the situations that I'm hearing now most of the that I hear, I'm not saying most of the situations together that most of the situations you hear where rape is being claimed, it is two people who were immigrated the same that

even actually more than one sexual account. My question that the woman says I was up, we were having sex, everything is whatever, and I now just feel he raped me. No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that there was a point throughout that sexual experience that everybody was involved. And I'm not saying that's not so. What I'm trying to say is at that point the woman dictates that at some point throughout me engaging with you,

I lost I didn't know what happened. But that's But what I'm explaining to you is that what we I'm saying, maybe you're hearing something different. I think we hear a lot about the same situation these women are saying. Right, I was into whatever, we was hanging out or whatever. The next thing I know, I woke up and something happened that I don't feel I didn't consent to. I

don't know about those situations. Those situations, those situations I'm not aware I'm aware of because there was there was for play, there was all of these things that everybody. What I'm saying is that the rules of engagement definitely are being more defined. Right, But at the end of the day, I think that it is important to to to say or to understand that for the most part, what we are hearing is women saying it was cool, we was good, whatever, and then I don't know what happened.

Something else happened. And all that I'm telling you is what I try to talk to my son about and

what hopefully all of us are saying. If you are having sex with a woman and all of a sudden she is not functioning at a regular but not what I'm trying to explain to you, is you giving somebody responsibility that might not be functioned at the regular same time, we both not function what I'm telling you, so we both engaged in the same we both tell me you don't know if you're you don't know, I'm asking you a question. Well, yeah, I think I know. Yeah, I

think I know. If I'm having sex with a man and he does this and he's not responded in the same way that he was, I think I know that. I think I know that if he's not touching and moving and saying something, that something is wrong. Yeah. So if a woman, if you are having sex with a womansation will go around, the just goes out and she's not doing anything anymore. Do you not think that at

that point you're supposed to be like something is wrong. Okay, so think about this or you're just supposed to keep happing. That's what I'm saying. That's not even not at all. So what I'm trying to say, not at all, I

wouldn't right, not of a conscious mind. But what I'm trying to say in the minute that she's no longer conscious, right, she don't know what happened after she lost conscious That's why you're supposed to say so once she stopped, right, if she made a conscious decision that whatever she did after she was sleep was wrong to her, and she

don't even know what happened. We both was engaging. You fell asleep, you lost asleep when you lost consciousness, Okay, losing conscious whatever it is if you lose consciousness, was in that act. And you made a consciousnsion that something happened after you lost consciousness that you don't even know about. And I did it wrong. But that's but and see that is why again and we gotta go to our regular topic, that the idea of people heaven getting drunk

or using drugs and having sex. If I was a man, I would understand just like you tell me. You gotta let me just ready, just like you told me before, and I have argued you down about this point, but I get it to a certain extent, although I still don't agree, but I understand. Do not wear your mini skirt down the alley when you know those men that are over there. Do stay raped women over there before it's a bunch of men over there. You know the situation.

So if you wear your miniskirt and you go down in that alley, yes you have said, of course they shouldn't touch you. But if you you as a parent, you want to inform a woman that something really bad could happen to you if you go down in that alley way doing certain things. The same thing for our men. We could sit here and go back and forth all day about up, down, right or wrong. We need to

be telling young men you have a responsibility. As a man who most of the time is stronger, you have a certain level of aggression that is different that you. If you are going to into a sexual situation with another young woman, you need to not be too high where she could say she didn't know or this, and that you don't need to It's not that serious to

get it off. So what I'm trying to so I'm saying that just like you trying to tell I'm trying to be trying to tell you, you're talking about somebody versus a crime and sexual predaor and you don't think what I'm trying You tell me and me telling you to walk down to alley, we're to consent an adults. None of us is a criminal. We both like each other. We both go to the But so listen to what I'm saying. We both go to a bar, were both having the same amount of drinks. You buy a drink,

I buy a drink. That's what we're talking. So let's go. We need a whole show. The whole show has to be has to be shared with no. I think accountability absolutely has to be shared. But just like we as women have been taught that we have a heavier responsibility in multiple areas. Women have been taught all our lives that we have a responsibility in a number of areas to be more conscious of how we look, what we do, how we come on to a man in certain situations

because we give the wrong impression. We've been taught that, and so I'm saying that, no, it's not eliminated be in certain situations. But I think also we were talking about a certain thing, and what we have to stop doing is every time we get into a conversation on what our brothers can do better, even if there's something that women can do better. Also just and this was about both of us, it were and just about just let's let's go to the topic because this is a

whole another show. We could do this as a show because it's a debate, and I think it's a healthy debate. But once again, I do want to say this. I want to state this for the record. I do not condone or believe that any man should do anything that a woman is not willing to do. Nothing at all. There's no situation where willing a woman has stopped, she doesn't want to do something that a man should move further beyond that point, I do not believe that at all.

Let's get that clear. I think I want that to be clarity. You have a problem with rape culture in general, and there's certain things that we've been taught. I think sex sex culture has now turned into it. No it's not, it has not, no, no, no, rape culture. Rape culture was clearly defined. There's no clear definition. Are you serious? Do you know that women have been being raped and

people didn't believe in understand it, believe it. People are beginning to actually people didn't believe what they said happen. That's what they're saying before you and get away with it. There was no never legal standard you can keep. There was not. If it needs to be, there needs to be, and if we still have not clearly defined what rape looks like, especially women are generally on the wrong side

of it. But at the same time, I do agree that men are raped as well and just and and because of the way that culture and society has been set up, not enough of it as being discussed. I'm finished talking to you anyway about because we always have these conversations. This wouldn't be the first time. I mean, I hear what you're saying at all. We know that. But I have to speak from man's perspective because this is a situation. Maybe you should think from a woman's

perspective and we'll have less issues. Well maybe you should think, I do. I just think when there is a situation that requires two people, then there has to be jointed responsible and I think that's true, as we've discussed many times. Why I still don't agree, but the thought of the

day changes the topic. I'm trying to figure out why we are still living in a society, like why are corporations and other people still getting it wrong when addressing racism, violence against black people, violence against black women, the disrespect of our communities, and the complete like the unmitigated gal is that what they say of white women in their

dangerous tears? Well, you know and that and I in my book State of Emergency, No, I know, there's a movie a movie, but there's a lot of focus on it because we're bringing attention to Karenism and I talk about it in a State of Emergency. But Karenism is super dangerous, man, It's super dangerous, gets people killed. And everyone saw in the last few days, we've been watching this video erupt um totally going viral of a black

woman at a Victoria's Secrets in New Jersey. Um the video comes on, you see a white woman walk up to her and basically try to hit her or hit the front. I heard like some sound, you know that she was definitely charging her. And what goes on after that the scream and the yelling, the crying, the falling out and then chasing this black woman around the store. And what you hear in the video is the black woman like chuckling out of disbelief. I can't believe this,

what what is happening here? But you watch the store? Uh and and I and I do think, my son, we're living in such a sick society. People have been indoctrinated two violence, especially violence against black folks, so much that we're actually watching the cashier still doing business, staff still working in the store, people still trying to make

their purchase, even though this lady, the white woman. Let's just say you care about the white woman because she's the way she's screaming and crying and laying down on the ground. One might want to try to figure out are you okay? Like what's wrong with you? And it doesn't take long for you to realize that she's doing all of this because she has harmed the black woman and she's now having a tantrum and falling out so that she can be protected from abusive and dangerous behavior.

You can figure that out quickly. But I'm just saying, let's just say, you see the black women, you don't care what she's doing. You see a white woman down on the ground. How are you still making a purchase and not stopping to say what the hell is going on here? But instead they stop for two seconds to tell the black woman, why don't you get away from her? Leave her alone? Although this white woman has attacked her first.

You know what, all of that is wrong, the black the white woman's behavior, the store continuing to do business, the behave the white woman who I hope somebody finds her name, who stands there and tells a black woman to leave her alone, as if it's the black woman's fault, who has no sensitivity or understand it, even try to understand anything that's happening. Okay, all those things are wrong, But what is most important are two things? Or what the two things that are most important are this one?

The police or the security the mall security. They do nothing except escort the black woman away, ask her to leave. They do nothing with this white lady, looking at her behavior, seeing what she's doing. I wonder what the black supervisor of the Victoria's Secret store is even saying and reporting to the police because she is patiently dealing with and addressing this white woman. And I see many things there. I see number one that you're very patient with her.

I wonder if it was a black woman doing all of that, would you be asked patient? I see that, and I have to ask the question because sometimes our own people can be the biggest obstacle to justice. So I I see that. But even if she feels harmed, hurt or whatever, feels um saddened, frustrated by what she sees happening there, she also knows that she cannot do

but so much to this white woman. So even even even even if she's like not like, even if she said back to me, no, I'm I'm you know, I'm not the one who doesn't want to see justice for this black woman. Right, And we believe her and we understand that she knows that the trauma that she's also experiencing trauma in that moment. She's trying to do her job, and yet she has to stop to deal with an idiot, Okay, a racist idiot by the way. So so that's trauma.

Is so much trauma going on. So the security they do nothing except except cause more inflict more abuse and harm to this black woman. But now the next thing is Victoria's secret puts out a statement. Now we're gonna put the statement up so people can read it for themselves. But what I found to be interesting is that the

statement very light. You know, we're we're we're investigating diversity and inclusion, all of this bullshit that is this the cookie cutter messages, the diversity and equity and this and that they're it's bulls. It's bullshit that that that they they it's called cookie cutter responses that pr agencies give you. So everybody deals with the situation the same way, unless you are a corporation that has somebody in there, particularly

a black person who's saying that ain't gonna work. We gotta put a little bit more muscle into our messaging. That's that's what we see. We know it's already, but they used the word altercation between two people. There was one person that was attacked. I'm trying to where is the altercation. It's never an altercation is sometimes? I mean,

well it's not never. I wouldn't say never. I'm saying but usually, you know, I've been watching these current videos lately, the other dad woman grabbing somebody's package, and then Mason the man because he tried to get a package and fell and said you kill me. So it's just like when you see these things, it's just it's it's the weirdest thing that you could ever see. It's like it is,

it is mind boggling. You know that black people have to everyday deal with some level the white supremacy and racism that we have to deal with microaggressions, full aggressions. We have to deal and we have to keep control. We have to stay composed because when she hit the woman or charged that hall start, oh my god, she didn't she And you know, she's a better person than most of us, you know, because most of us are

not gonna deal with that. But the reality situation is, you know, the Karenism and the emboldness of Karenism is at all time high. And it's like, because what's his name, Brian m hmm, what's the one's name who told who basically tried to like chastize Kevin Hart when he said that white supremacy is at all time high? Bryan, Uh, y'all know who I'm talking about him? Bryant's the one I think he'd be on HBO. H. Now, I put it in your mind, you're gonna be trying to get

best to figure it out. They're gonna look it up, but go ahead. It's at all time it is and it's and it's dangerous and you know, we don't need it. We don't need we just don't need it. We hate it here, right, sometimes stop the ship. It's just too much. It's like it's like y'all for real, like you and nobody's gonna protect you. The damn, the damn, the damn. The best of corporation could do is try to come out with some ship and put it on their Twitter

and hope that nobody sees it. And guess what the shade wom when it posted it after me because I posted it and they saw that I posted it, and then they rent to Twitter and got it because you know, if they had seen it before I posted it, they would have put it on their page. So, you know, shout out to the Shade room. That's all right, it's right. But but but I was the one who said, hey, did Victoria's secrets say anything? Hello? Anybody see the ship

that happened? And then they said, and people started telling me in my page all they said something. Go on Twitter. You know on Instagram they are quick. They said, oh, gover there on Twitter and see the bullshit they put on the page. And I went over there and read and and said to myself, we still have so much further to travel. Well at least were traveling, but were traveling.

We're gonna fight too. And now listen, all I know is I just need Rihanna to put a little bit more pattern on the bottom of the bra so I could get me a good push up and Hunt fenty will be my thing, because you know, for us, by us. And by the way, his name is Bill Mark, Bill Mar's. First of all, if Kevin Hard says white supremacy is at all, are you talking? Mind your business? You ain't gonnah to do with you, Bill build until white don't tell black people about white people doing us. You just

sit there and listen. We all is yeah, like maybe men should just listen to I can say anything. Let's time go to our guests, Chico human who is going to be with us, UM you know for the next and we try, y'all. We said for six for a series of six episodes, we're going to focus very heavily on gun violence. The issue of gun violence, intervention prevention awareness is really important to us. UM not just UM here at street politicians, but also in our personal lives,

based upon our experiences, based upon UM. You know, our work and our passion and our focus in terms of what our organization Until Freedom does. And so for six weeks or for six episodes, rather we're focusing our attention on all the different areas of what it looks like to address gun violence UM in our communities. There's obviously an uptick in violence. There has been a spike across

the nation. We believe that big part of what we're seeing has a lot to do with the pandemic and how the pandemic has exposed multiple epidemics within our community, whether that be housing UH, poor health care UM. And when I say housing, I'm talking about the lack of housing. A lot of people found out during this pandemic that living UM in a home on top of other people that you're not used to seeing very often was problematic. People got put out of their homes because there was

no real space for them. UM. You have a lot of issues in terms of unstable housing that is very serious and it's not being talked about enough. Just doing a moratorium or rent payments is not enough to address the fact that six people are living in a one

bedroom home. Um, and and and also dealing with other issues in terms of you know, it just just in some unfortunately one the conversation we were just having about sexual abuse and things like that, both men, boys, girls, men and women, UM are dealing with that in their homes and don't necessarily want to be there. Um. You have food deserts, people not being able to eat properly.

You have obviously education trauma the educational system. Over this recent uh pandemic time period, in the last two years, we have learned how poor our education system really really is. Many of us already knew, but we certainly have seen it play out in a very very real way. And then of course, um, you know, there's so many other issues in terms of the health care system and how we saw with the pandemic, people who have been trying to deal with health issues for so long. I mean

you you're talking about pre existing conditions. The black community, we experience that at the highest rates, and so so many things have been compounded that have created an environment, um that we are now seeing the violence in our community spike. People dealing with their frustrations, the poverty, the lack of resources, and there are a lot of folks who are doing great work to address that. I don't know if you want to jump in first before we introduce our our guests. No, I just want to you

know pretty much. Um, remember what you were saying. You know, we're dealing with so many different layers of trauma that are contributing to this, you know, this spike and gun violence. You know, just in the Bronx the other day, a thirteen year old, sixteen year in the nineteen year all in the same area were gunned down. You know, so they killed. They were all killed, you know, and it's like so when you sit there and you realize that that we're taking lives and losing lives at this age,

you know, we all it's pretty much everybody's failing. The system is failing, the community is failing. You know, when when violence and shooting becomes recreation because there's nothing else, when the guns replacing basketballs and footballs in baseballs, then we're actually losing. So you know, this is my new initiative. You know, I don't know if ye see it. It's called boycott black murder, you know, at any cost, no matter who's commandative, it's the police, is if it's people

in our community. You know, we need to be boycotting black murder. So you know, that's the initiative. And now we're gonna have a conversation with another brother friend of ours. You know, we got so many friends, man, this show is just for the friends, man, you know, and um, this is somebody that I respect. The work that he's done. You know, the road he's traveled to actually do this work.

You know, it's similar to minds being from the streets, and he's from the streets of some of the roughest streets in this country, from Chicago and you know, being formally incarcerated, coming home to get a PhD. To be one of those who actually started to stop the violence in the communities and intersect and be one of those positive role models that you know, what we call credible

messages in our community. The brothers that we see and we know that they've been through the same thing, so therefore they have a level of credibility and able to connect with the communities. This is one of our brothers and one of the most powerful brothers in this country

right now. Doctor Chico Tillman Hey, first of all I want to say, I'm humble, and it's a pleasure to being be a part of this program because I respect and appreciate the work you do day in and day out and some of the challenges that come with the work. So it's really an honor just to be having this

dialogue on this platform with you. And I want to say publicly how much I appreciate the work you do and how I see firsthand all the sacrifices you make for our people to make this place, this country, a better place to live in for Indigenous people. Yeah, thank you so much, Chico. We appreciate that you know, you are certainly our brother. Um. You know, I want to make sure that folks understand who we're talking to in this series where we're focusing on gun violence. Each show

has different things. Sometimes we're talking to victims so we can learn more about their experiences and how they have turned their pain into purpose. On our last show, we talked with a young sister by the name of patients Mary, who was shot in the Pulst nightclub in Florida. She had been she was living out of town and and had been in Florida on vacation and she was shot along with her sister in law, and her sister in law didn't make it patients with shot a few times

in her legs. Um, but she now is over the gun violence. She's the outreach director for the Gun Violence Survivor's Foundations, and she talks so much to go about how there is really not enough resources for actual survivors. There's work being done to address those people who might

be shooters. Of course, there's work being done to try to curb violence, but there's not enough that is out there to help people who have actually been impacted by gun violence as a victim and so UM and also she has a book, she's the author of Survived uh Survived to Live UH. So, folks who are listening, go out and please get that book and support patients. Married. We also have married Maggie carry our young sister on

Maggie Um is an influencer. She's a TV Personnelity Putty, who was shot in a nightclub in New York City at a concert where our brother Shan Duke mcfatter, who does gun violence prevention work in New York City. You know, shand his brother was shot and killed in that shooting, and that incident that happened as well, and so we

had both of them on. We wanted to also make sure we focus on women, right, you know, women who would who are victims, because the conversation often goes to men quickly because there are so many of our brothers who are either shooting or getting shot. But in this in this particular show, we talked to uh two women.

And the reason why we wanted to have you on as the senior research director for the University of Chicago's Crime and Education lab um, I think and and my son and I were talking about what this series looks like. We have to have people elected officials, folks who are practitioners, folks who do mental health support because this issue of gun violence is so much bigger than just putting law enforcement in our communities hasn't worked. So that's why we

wanted to have you on today. So Chico, tell us what you've been doing, what you're working on, and then of course we'll get into how people can be helpful. The first thing I want to say is thank you for recognizing that we can't arrest our way out of it. And I want to start by saying that most people don't even think critically that when a situation happens, or if a situation occurring, you don't call law enforcement till it reaches a particular point, escalates to a point where

crime is being committed, and then it's too late. Somebody already shot. So one of the things I'm working on with the Crime Lab is building systems and structures throughout the United States to change the way we look at it. UM. I think we have to address the root causes of violence.

A lot of it is systemic racism, UM and and and it's it's in a plethora spaces, it's not just And what it does is it allows individuals who live in these vulnerable communities to be traumatized day and night, so that when they reach conflict, they already dealer with all these microaggressions and they're at a boiling point. So something is simple as an argument escalates to somebody being um killed. So I say, first, we gotta address these systems.

And I love the work that you're doing because it addresses the systems. Another huge thing we're doing nationally, I'm working with a group of great minds from all over the country on initiative called fund Peace and what we're doing is getting these resources down to the people on the ground who live in these vulnerable communities. When I say vulnerable communities, I mean disinvested communities. And I think the big problem is people want us to work a

miracle with short money. If you have only a certain amount of money, somebody's gonna be left out. And they're giving us a short amount of money to work out all the kings around violence. When violence occurs for a plector of reasons which the government needs to be involved because they helped create these situations, that's exactly right, you know. So for me, it's like where, you know, how are we going about getting this money? Like what is what is the process? And I say this all the time.

People hate when you say defund the police. So my my new thing is refund the community. How how should we be going about like what is your process? And what how did you going to get these resources to give back to the communities were they're right now? They're about four pathways. The first pathway, which is the lowers

hanging through is the A RP money. The A r P money is the one point nine trillion that that President biden Um sent to each state county and city, and the money is supposed to be for individuals that were heavily impacted by COVID. Now we know nobody was negatively impacted more than black and brown people. And I gotta say this too, one of my biggest problems is a lot of people that's in these positions are black

and won't give up the money. So that's that's a huge problem because I would think out of anybody, they would be able to um have empathy with the pain of relatives in many cases that's going through these challenges. So so one point nine you said one point nine trillion.

One point nine trillion dollars. Uh. The the President Biden sent to states, cities and municipalities as a as a a COVID relief package, right, and so it is supposed to address issues that is happening in communities in the state or at the city level and the local on the local level that that um can be directly connected to the impact of COVID. That's what was supposed to happen.

So you are at fund Peace are saying we know that the issue with gun violence, A lot of the new numbers and the spikes that we're seeing around the country have to do with are directly associated with the after effects of the COVID crisis, and therefore some form of those dollars should be dedicated to the grassroots efforts in the community. Perfectly stated. Okay, so now, but what if they say, well, we just want to give the money to police because we're seeing some of that happening

across the nation. What we asked for let me be clear, we asked for two percent. I'm gonna make you laugh. We asked for two percent from the state and five percent from the city and municipalities. So it's not like we're asking for a lot. So we're asking for two and And the thing is, as I stated before, more police doesn't mean the violence is gonna is gonna decrease. It just doesn't. Um. I was at I was on the panel with my son in Chicago, and he said

something real, real critical. If you think about affluent communities, you never see the police. You never see a police. If you see a police is at a dunking donuts and donuts. They're not riding around stopping people. So to think that that's a different form of police in the work in our community without cultural competency and cultural sensitivity. It's insane, you know what I want to actually and

then we're going backwards with this. But I just want you to give a little bit of your background, like, you know, where did you come from with you know your situation, how did you get to this place to where you're dis esteemed doctor who understands our community and able to really give the solutions that's gonna change. Uh. First, I want to start by saying, I'm from the Austin community, which is, um, numerically the most violent community in Chicago. UM,

it's one of the poorest communities. So I'm from the hood or the street. UM. I do have a background in a subculture group, which means I was and and in clear terms or vivid terms, I was a part of a game. UM. But I had an epiphany and I was sentenced to twenty years in prison under draconian crack sentence. But I should have only got three and a half years, So I did thirteen excessive years because of racial profiling and the criminalization of black people by

the United States government. Let me start there. So at the in prison I realized what allowed me to be able to mentally go through this process was that I realized some of the things I was doing wrong and the influence I had on so many people, so I wanted to do something different and coming home, I fell in love with this process of being able to save lives because it was a conflict between two groups and I knew both of the guys and I was able

to stop people from killing each other. And I'm gonna be honest, I never felt anything remotely closed to the joy and satisfaction that I got from saving the life. And I was bought into that process. But what I learned soon as I got into the process is that without education, I wouldn't be able to make any impact in terms of decision and that's what's started me on this track or this road to going back to school.

And the difference from me and a lot of other people is I'm still connected to people in the street. My perception of people hasn't changed. I don't think they monsters. I think they just like me. They need pathways or opportunities to change their life, and they need to be connected to people like me to know that it's possible. So I still have relationships in my community. I still going my old community, I still love on them, guys, I'm patient with them because it was a process for

me to change. And I think me having this tryotic perspective, a person that was once an individual at the highest risk, a person that was a practitioner, and a person that's now able to look at different theoretical concepts and making operational as a researcher makes me a little different from somebody who really don't understand the culture and challenges of our people. So President to you know, I'm all about

cut the check. So President Biden will tell me the difference between and I know you have to go Chico, but we don't want to be disrespectful to your time. But tell me the difference between the one point nine trillion and the five point three billion that we saw at the White House trying to okay, remember I said it was four pathways. First of all, let me say something about Fine Peace. Fine Peace is a group of toil people who solve a problem and did something about

it really to make it shut. And we said, we gotta get the money to the people. So we volunteered to collectively come together to get the resources to the ground because we connected to people that's dying. So fun Peace doesn't get the money. No, we don't get it done. We don't get it done. We're trying to make sure people on the ground get the money, and and and and The five point three billion is money that's in

the infrastructure build. That was in the infrastructure build. But Horford and Booker have a bill that we need everybody's support to get money to people on the ground to make sure we get job placement, job training, money to violence prevention organization and all the wraparound services that addressed the trauma. I'm gonna say something interesting to Tamika. In my side, I did sixteen years three months in prison. The day I was released, the expectation was that I'd

be normal, as if none of that never happened. So I never received any services to help me psychologically transition back into society. Now, I had a support system that helped me navigate. Imagine for everybody that's arrested or go through that trauma, the pressures of getting out. In the first day, the first thing people talking about is getting a job, as if nothing, none of that had ever happened. And I think that's why the five point three billion

is important. We gotta we gotta work with these people and help them understand what you went through is not normal, no matter what you did to get there, and help them go through a transition period to get back acclimated to society. I say the same thing all the time, and especially you know being in prison. I didn't do

as much time as you did. But just understanding is the dynamics, you know, and then being acts and just come back into a society and just you know, and resume as if you've missed time, you you missed, you know, you missed generations. Like ten years is a decade. You know, so many things happen in two or three years. In two or three years being free, things have happened to have completely changed. So ten and sixteen and I'm seven

years that I did it was it was. It was a real far stretch and it took a lot of time, and fortunately for us we had those support systems and that was able to do it. So I just want to say, I commend you brother on the work that you do, you know, especially where you do it at Like you said, we just had you know, I was out there with you men and the spirit and the love that you bring to this work into this movement is needed and is appreciated. Man, So listen, fund Piece,

we with you. We want to you know, we want if we wanted, whatever we can do to help you know, we with you. We're gonna make sure that we we align with you. Once again, another one of our friends and our brothers keep doing the work. Brother, you appreciated. You are definitely one of the ones that are shine

and these brothers definitely need you in these streets. Man, if there's an organization out there, grassroots group that is looking for support and wants to become a part of the fund Piece program, want to make sure people understand clearly that fund Piece is a conduit to help grassroots organizers and organizations get resources so that they can do the work in their communities. And so, like you said, there are multiple pathways, but you all have the knowledge

base of how to do that. At where do folks go? How do they get in touch with you? Go to fund Piece now and you can you can sign up as a partner. We don't turn anybody away. And when you go to the site fund piece now dot org, dot com, dot com, fund piece now dot com. Okay, And then you said when you go to the site. It will tell you can sign up as a partner and come on Wednesday and have access to all the

material we have for free. So it's it's we're doing everything we can to try to help as many people as possible. Thank you, Chico. We appreciate you for coming on and really breaking it down for us. Hopefully we can bring you back during the six week process because we know that you've been in l A and now you're moving on to other cities, and we want to make sure people keep up with the movement and get involved.

And you also talked about that bill um that I think Corey Booker and others have and we're gonna go look it up and make sure people know that they should start calling and asking for other legislators and others in our federal government to support that bill so we can get the resources out of the gate and into the community. And I'm a big supporter of until Freedom and I want thank you so much. What y'all to the end, and I thank you all for putting your life on the line each and every day. And I

want to say this publicly. Everybody needs to know fund Peace is a hundred a thousand percent behind my brother and sister, and we protect our people, we love our people, and until freedom is at the forefront of getting the work done in our community. Thank you, cheek, See you soon appreciate alright, alright, thank you. So there's so much to unpack with that, um, you know, cheek or he's

such a humble, humble giant, um. And what he is doing and what he's involved in, along with Pastor Mike McBride, Erica Ford and others who are at the helm of leadership in fund, Piece is really trying to trying their best to get resources and bring it down to the street.

And that's not easy, you know. And I get how some black folks are really frustrated because black people are saying, why do we always have to jump through hoops and travel under bridges and cross the waters and the ocean and everything else in order to get what we need in our communities? UM. And right now, what I see and I'm and this is not fun Pieces not saying this. I'm saying it is. I see that as more more

violence happens across the nation, which as you said, shared responsibility. UM, that it's a it's a it's a conversation we have to have with our own people. But as that is happening, the pressure is being applied to this administration in and also to Biden specifically to increase police presence and support for law enforcement across the nation, because there's there is a there's a false narrative that somehow police prevent violence, right,

and we've never seen that happen. Right. What we understand what prevents violence is the lack of when you when you get rid of poverty, right, when you give resources and you give opportunities, like I said, right now, violence is the recreation for the children in the communities. They

don't have these programs. We used to have basketball programs, We had after school programs, We had on programs within the community that you can come in and you can teach you how to cook, they teach you how to box. They had all of these things that all of this energy, these young kids could utilize it and they would they would fund certain things. You had tournaments, you have something

to really keep you engaged. Now on these young kids just go outside and they're in the corner and they just want to be involved with gangs and and this is what's happening, and this is all of this is a process, right, So until we elimit those realities, until we put back resources in our communities, we cannot in any way think that violence is gonna stop. Like Chico said, I said, when you go to the affluent communities, there's no police there because there's no need to know. I'm

saying I don't see them at all. I don't. I don't see any police Walmart. I mean not the police you see like the security. I see the police at the Walmart. Well, I mean the Walmart's trying to be funny, like you see them in those kinds of places, But you don't see cops the corners. When we go to our rich friend's house that we visit, you know, like when you go visit, I don't know who do we visit that's rich, We visit Pop's house. I have never

seen a cop near Poff's house just hanging out. This ain't happening because there's no need because the people they have everything they need, so the the perplexity for crime is way lower. So we got to understand that if that's a simple concept, If people have resources and they have all the things that they need, the stability in the need for crime diminishing, and you know, these interviews are so short, so we don't really get an opportunity to lay out all the things that people need to know.

But reading is fundamental and that's why, um, you know, fund piece now dot com is so important because folks can go there and really learn. And I get a text message from fund Piece every day that tells me if I want to be a part of sessions with that they have online, when you can actually learn how to apply for money and how to get support, how to get connected with larger organizations that can actually help you and be like your fiscal sponsor, because that's another issue.

You have such small grassroots groups that they hit the ground and they're out there, they're doing real work, but they don't have their paperwork in order to be able to accept a two million dollar grant. And so if they work with some of the larger organizations, then those folks will serve as the as the umbrella, if you will, and make sure that the payroll gets paid aid and that you know, the infrastructure is there to help right it incubate these organizations. And so there's so much that

you can actually learn in this process. And I want to make sure that we do, not that people don't just go out saying, oh, ain't nobody doing nothing for black folds. Oh there's nothing, No, there is something, but we all have to work together. And to to our point earlier, everything is political because while the money, yes, the money is there, but then there the process to

get it is political. And now we know that there's an actual bill that is associated with the five point three million billion dollars that President Biden has already signed an executive order. He signed an executive order to send that money out. But as we know, the system always has guard rails to try to UM and and I'm not saying this is on every issue. I'm not saying this is just on gun violence, because it's on every single thing that you're trying to get out of the government.

There's all these different areas and guard rails. And so there's a bill that Corey Booker has that will actually help to free up more of those resources and get them into the community, to deal with mental health support, to deal with jobs, to deal with the things that we know, just as you just laid out so UM importantly UM and so clearly, to deal with all of these issues that actually prevent us from being able to

address the issue of gun violence. So we are you know, as also as a part of this series, I think what's important is while we are covering those people who have the ability to make real, like big change. So you know, someone like Chico, he is someone who with the work that fund pieces doing, they have the ability to really help support a lot of people across the nation.

Absolutely um And but at the same time, what I am also very very what makes me hopeful is people like patients Mary who is a victim, Maggie Carry a victim who's turned their pain into purpose. And this brother who is joining us today. Kareem Nelson is one of those who we see at protests all the time. He's out there not just UM for you know, for the

issue around gun violence. Because certainly we've seen him at in the Bronx in different places marching to bring about change and to help curb gun violence and to bring UM gangs together, but also I've seen him at police brutality protests. I've seen him in so many different spaces

out there as a real advocate. His name is Kareem Nelson again, and his organization is Wheelchairs Against Guns UM and obviously the wheelchair polace is important because when you see Kareem, he is someone who's in a wheelchair, who's making it from place to place and being out there as a real advocate. So, Kareem, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you having mean. So let's start with the personal side. Um, Kareem, what happened to you?

You know, obviously your story is real and we want folks to know what you've been through. Well, you know, I was born in seventy four, forty seven, forty seven this year. Um, I came up in a in the eighties and nineties. Uh, I like it. You know, I'm very transparent. I was. I was a stupid kid, you know what I mean. I talked, I talked my desistants up to having a low supersteem. Um. I had a good household. My mom took care and she had a good job with My father wasn't there. He was alcoholic. Um,

you know, low Sevil state. You know, the streets called me up at a very young age. That's why I started doing those ships by seven crack claimed with guns um at thirteen, I saw I came in, came in kind of one of my first misses of dumb Valance. I saw my man Doria Dixon get murdered right and running me. He was sixteen. I was thirteen, and you know,

that was my sign to get out the streets. But you know, I didn't take key to it because you know, I thought I was, you know, Bill for the two, and I can handle anything that come out direction, you know, and I just I just been through every every everything that you could imagine. And I've been through the seventeen.

I got four with the Himmer. I went on the run at seventeen to Atlanta because at this time of my life, you know, I had a bunch of friends and we was just in and out of town selling drugs. And then, you know, I don't like to talk about that because I don't want to glorify that, but that's what we were doing at the time, and in the in the early nineties. Seeing my selling drugs was cool thing to do at the time, right, So I felt

thinking of that. Um at seventeen, I went on the run for the gun and then I found myself in Atlanta for Mare del Valance, my man baby Jay got murdered. You know, I found myself in Bottomore and when I got to Bottomore it was rough. I've never seen poverty at such a uh high rate right from you, but I probably is made different from what they're going through. So when I got damn here, I thought I knew how to fight very well. You know, I feared well in the streets, so I was kind of I had

a chip on my shoulder. I thought I was a bully um my beard across the men and the complex selling drugs. I didn't want to be anymore. You know. I just exercised my cancer. And the day that I saw him was Father's Day. You know, he was doing what he was doing, and I was totally frustrated. I had it done on me, but it was in the pushing and you know, my frustration and my stupidity allowed me to put my hands on that man and his friend, you know, shot me. That was June Fathers um my life.

I never had a job. I don't know what working is. So they're putting a mid Shire. It was like, like it's foreign to me. They wanted to give me a check that was worth five hundred and eighty three dollars a month, and I had to live off there. I had to pay rent. I had to do all that, so, you know, not never having a job, a little self esteem,

I believing in myself that I could do better. I see him back to the streets, and this time when I went back to the streets, UM, I put a federal federal charge for uh expiracy of the strident fifty grounds and more practical came H lost my apulmit, went to jail. UH four and a half years. God changed the crack norns for me, got me had it early.

I came home still didn't learn my lesson, still thinking about the streets and trying to catch up, and my money not being the way I wanted it to be, you know, for doing dumb things and sail like gavin it, you know, and and things like that. When I came home, I was behind the ball, but I had to catch up. I went right back to what I knew. This time, I trusted mine, my family member had a family remember that was in the streets. Awesome. You know, we did

this thing in thousand times between us. This one time when you know, we went to go through the business. He decided to take all the brad and all the money. Wasn't mind, you know, some killer's money. It was some good friends money and you know, the killer's money, their money, and I couldn't produce it. So that night they rocked to sleep and for me to the fan called the park, drove somewhere dark and it was about you know, calling bags out the trunk to put clubs one and I

got scared. For the first half of my life, I really valued my life because I really got scared. You know, I know I played with them brothers, you know, God always with me. I called pool. Then he wasn't the only once there, no more. So that was there. They couldn't do what they had to do. I went home. I had I was funked up at the time. I had the bar, the man from my moms get these things back there brand. I gave him back their brand. And that night all the fourteen makes two thousand fourteen.

I sat in my bed and I put. I finally understood why I was in and the purpose of me and his wheel Chap was to help other young gun that looked like me sound like this, you know, and come from where I come from. Donna have to ever go through this. So that's my story. I ain't proud of it, but it is real. It's real, and it's rule, and it's it is a familiar story, you know, with the with the exception of the wheelchair, I know a lot of people have that same similar story. And you know,

and and and it makes me reflect. You know, right now we're dealing with such an epidemic and gun violence, you know, and just the other day a young thirteen year old was killed and you were just explaining how at that age you were deeply entrenched already in the streets, and and and and the mindset for me, right, it's what is the process? How like, dude, what who do you think was the influence? Do you feel like there could have been older people in your community that could

have steered you a different way? Do you feel like they embraced you, they've seen you going on the path? Do do you think that there could have been something that could have steered you in a different direction? Or which is something that you felt like, what's gonna happen naturally because you wanted to do it? Well? In the nineties, we have this. I mean, I didn't have somebody to come in that help me. What it was. It was just you know, you can't keep willing you don't go

to jail, but you know, jealous like college. So it didn't really didn't really register with me. So I really didn't have nobody. My friends really didn't have nobody, you know. I think my teacher for that time was me seeing my friend Dorian Murden, you know what I mean. I was when I was, that was the person coming to coming and talk to me like, yo, you gotta tell you might be next you telling you to get life.

I think that was that was it right there, But verbally nobody really said it because I don't think nobody really knew. Everybody was all doing the same thing, you know what I'm saying, it did. So all of these programs that that we see out here now, um, you know Wheelchairs Against Guns, uh, you know life Camp, um uh, you have g MAC, you have who else man up, you have all of these different organizations. You're saying, we didn't have access to that. You didn't have acts us

to those types of organs at the time. No, not at all, not at all. It says that's why the kids that they don't realize the duty of what they got, you know what I mean, they got real people that you know't done what they've done lived the life that they're trying to live coming back talking to me, you know what I mean, they don't really realize that, you know.

I mean that's the sad problem because you know, sometimes when I turn the news on in the mooning and I hey about all these kids then't kill I feel like I'm not doing my job. I feel like I feel you know what I mean. I left a lot of kids, remember, and limber with my neighborhood that just got that selid drugs and doing stupid. Ship's cool and I take the plane for that, you know. I mean, that's another reason why I get back so coheartedly. We

don't have no fun. Every time you see me or you see my organis actually out there on my time, you know, and I'll make it and I'll make it work, you know when gard has been doing and allowing me to continue to reach instead. You know. So wow, So you don't have the you don't you're not funded at all in the cure, in the crisis management system or

any of that. Oll wow. And that's and I think that's what the issue is for me, is just understanding that the brothers like you to have a story that is relatable that the young brothers in our community will be able to relate to and you can change them and redirect them and you know, in a different direction. But yet our government and the organizations don't see the need and the necessity to fund people like yourself, but they want to spend that money to incarcerate our young kids,

right you know. So I think the preventatives, the preventative messages, I mean methods, are the things that we need to focus on. You know, brothers like yourself need to be funded. Man. So I just want to say we commend you for the work that you're doing. We commend you just being alive. You know what will Chance Against Guns actually does? And

then also how can people directly support you? Um? And then I want to know if you you know what's happening with the fund piece model, um, and whether or not we can help to put you together with them and maybe you know, perhaps they could be supportive and helping you get the funding that you need. So definitely, what does will what does will Chairs Against Guns do?

Our so purpose is to protect children from the dames of bullying games and don mines, you know, like I'm not a children on the site but I'm really heavy in the schools. That's my main I stick with the school. We've done over two hundred schools, you know, we just spoke to over two thousand students. And I've been doing going into school since since the inception of WAG, which was two thousand and fourteen, and we've been at everything. I can't it's counting schools. We've got to countless kids

whose last change you know, UM I started. I'm not good at that. You you know I'm not good at ACT because I don't know. I didn't get to getting on my own. So like just being ask you with that, I wouldn't have started um a company and non medical transportation company when my company of Chance for Alderney people assess Bride, you know, assess Brian uh Term and all those things. So I have calls on the street that transport these people. And I started discompany for the sole

purpose to fund my organization. If I don't know how to ask you know, so you can put me in touch with anybody that you know directly in the ACTS part. It will be a huge, you know, huge beneficial to my organization. How can we support you directly? I mean, you know, we got a website Wheel gets guns at All. You can go on there and you can make a contribution. Or if we um just twenty June, I would like for both of y'all if ya could have the time. We have a peace treaty and far Rockety. I'm from

far Rockety also. I lived out there also, and then the balance out there is crazy, and we're having a peace treaty sort of like the kings King, stop killing kings. Brother, that's what we're doing. So you know, I can send you out of information, but you can directly supporters about just googling my man Karee Nelson or just going to directly while our website wills getting dounes at all sign out the program and a great against guns. Thank you so much, Thank you man for the brother. I appreciate

you man. The work you're doing. This phenomenal and your story is so real and raw and you know, and a lot of times that's what these kids need and that's what they respect. They respect the rawness. They understand authenticity. You can't trick these kids. You can't make believe that you've done something that you ain't. You know, they know how to smell it on you. If it ain't on you, they know what ain't know on you. So we appreciate

you coming from that perspective. Brother, continue to do the world and listen to you say that you actually have a transportation company and that that's how you fund your work. It's so important because a lot of people look at us and think that, I don't know, I guess they think money just drops off the skies, or that folks just just just donate and invest, you know, millions of dollars. That's not our situation. There's some people who have that,

but unfortunately until freedom does not. And therefore each one of us, of the four co chairs of our organization. Angelo Pinto, is an attorney. He actually does his work every day as a lawyer. Linda Sarsre, she does political work, she works on campaigns, she does consulting work. I also, aside from being a speaker, um, you know who is requested to do major speeches across the country. But I also have a consulting firm and I do real work

working with corporations, working with agencies. And then my son is an artist, um he also as a consultant. And so we we understand the model of doing outside work and then taking your own money. And I literally was just texting where somebody in our organization said how are we getting to some city that we're going to? And they said, how is it being paid for? And I said, well, I pay for my own ticket and then and they said, okay, yeah, it's we ain't got the money, you know what I mean.

You gotta pay for you gotta pay for yourself if you want to get there. So thank you, Kareem. We appreciate you. Appreciate you any time, any time. This is it like for me, this six episode series is like really important, and it's important for people like Kareem. No, we're not glorifying his story, but his story is a story that so many having if we can. The fact that God saved him from so many different things means that he's supposed to be here to tell somebody something.

And I'm that's what I want to be a part of exactly. You know, when you when you look at a brother like him and just hearing his story, it sounds so familiar. I got friends, and a lot of the things that he's talked about, I've actually been through some of those things myself, you know. So and I understand how important it is to be a credible messenger. You know, the way that I do the work that I do in our communities is I come from a

prospective of where they are now, right. I don't I don't have conversations with these kids or I don't have any type of communication with them from where I am where I am right because I've overcome those things and I went through that. My conversation is understanding exactly where they are and understanding that if you do not relate to where they are, and you speak from this hierarchy and you've already done that, they don't relate to you.

They don't believe, they don't believe that you've been through when you come so shine and polished and you just don't do the crime and just don't be in the streets and no, no, no understanding and telling them what I understand exactly what you're going through. I went through that. I understand what you're about to do. I understand that.

Now I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just telling you what are going to be the consequence the end result, because I know that you know what I'm saying, and I say this all the time to my sons and all these kids. If you listen to me, I'm a cheat sheet through life. So brothers like him, cheeko, all these brothers that we have, and you know, even the sisters to their knowledge and you know the wisdom because they have experiences old necessary at this time that

brings me to my I don't get it. I don't know how you cannot get you know, because no you want me to tell you why I don't get it when you have brothers like that, right, and you have so many people with knowledge in our communities, right when I and I think it's really touched me because I had a meeting with a lot of anti violence organizations yesterday, you know, in regard to this young thirteen and I think the word thirteen, right, and when what really hurt

me was the article read that a thirteen year old boy was killed and he was the intended target. Right. That means that somebody intentionally It wasn't an accidental. It wasn't somebody they went out and ran down to kill a thirteen year old board So was the shooter he could have been, But I'm that's it's not even just the shooter, right, it's the the concept that either of them, if they was twelve or eleven, were in a position

that somebody wanted to take their life. I don't get how we as a community allow a thirteen year old boy to be so entrenched, so engulfed in the streets. Nobody redirected him, nobody grabbed, and nobody did anything. I do not get how he did anything that warranted him to be murdered and executed by somebody that looked just like him, whether he was twelve, whether he was thirteen, whether the personal shadow was grown. I don't get that. You understand I'm saying. I thought we were supposed to

protect the babies. I thought there was a code. I thought there was rules of engagement. I thought women and children were off god, I mean we're off limits, you know. And now it's at a point where the thirteen and I was having a conversation with my boy Gilly yesterday. He said, the shooters is a level and thirteen. Next they're gonna be eight. So where's the future If we're killing the babies, right, if we ain't golfing the baby, we're not good. You're you're grown man. You took it

over you in this game. You and this lifestyle. You made a coneg decision as a grown man. You know what comes with this? Why would you bring these babies into that? What grown man sat there brought a little boy home quote unquote, because that's how you're getting these games. What young grown man sat there and said it was okay for this thirteen year old boy to be a part of the gang where he know he could be.

Because this is what's the streets are saying. The streets are saying, the streets are saying that he was a part of the gang and he was in this lifestyle. My thing is, how how are we allowing that? How who's saying who's sitting there and saying, oh yo, you know what, this young boy right here here part of our again. You're gonna be a shooter. You're gonna be this. We're gonna bring you into this. We're gonna let you risk your life. We're gonna we're saying that your life

is over right now. We're not even gonna give you the chance because we're grown man, we're here, we know what comes with this. But they say that the gangs are getting younger and younger. Right, just talked about right, the right so, and if you listen to Kaem, he's saying when he was thirteen or at that age, like he was let he was in the street. So the question is it are the older people, the older gang members, facilitating these that the younger ones are just starting their

own pop ups. Now I'm asking this as a what do you call it? It's like a like Devil's advocate question, right, Like maybe they're just younger gangs that are sparks. But I remember when I was young and I lived in the projects in Manhattanville, there was a young boy who might have been eleven, maybe maybe ten eleven. I believe

he started somewhere around ten years old. Now, my mom used to say that child is ten years old down there, and then you know, he could have been fourteen, but she said he was tending to make the story punch real good. But let's just say he was twelve thirteen years old. He was the one who was responsible for being down at this one particular place holding the drugs. Everybody could go down there to him and they would he would direct going the building, do this, do that.

He was the one moving all the drugs. The precinct was across the street. They could look out the window and watch what he was doing right there in the center of the project all day. He stayed outside all day. Now, mice when deep today these kids be looking dingy and toe up. At that time, he was suiting. He was a clean young man that was out there on and we were passed by see him all the time, just sitting out there running operation at a young young age.

So this has been going on for I'm not saying that hasn't. What I'm trying to say is, regardless of how long it's happening, it's completely wrong. As an adult one, I was blessed to have O G's around that. When I tried to get into the game at that young when I was like I wanted to, I was like, man, if you don't go to school, if you don't go play basketball, you played Basketb're gonna buy We're gonna send

you to camp. We're gonna buy you. What's that that that means that they said, Richard, Yeah, she didn't have no O G. Because exactly, and that's that's what community used to look like. Right there was always the thing is we we can't allow as grown, especially as men.

For me, we cannot allow these kids to be preyed upon. Well, I remember a young person came to me talking about being part of the game and somebody you love, somebody that I care about a lot, you know, And he was like, yo, I want to be a part of game. And they said, I'm good. And he was fifteen, and I'm like a gang. If you don't get out of here. I wish somebody would. I wish I would find out

that's one of these. But that but that's where the problem is, because you know what you triggered me just now when you said especially as men, right, I heard that, and I know you're right because I believe men this is a this and I and you know, we've had some arguments because Erica and I and other women will be fighting with you all about men not respecting us in the gun violence space the way that we should.

But as I've been listening to these stories today, I recognized that women have a role and men have a role, and the role of our men in this is deep and it's serious, right, And so what triggered me was, well, well, you said, what men, what are we supposed to be doing? And then I thought to myself, damn, I wonder if the young boy who was down there it was the call the flagpole in the project. I wonder if he had a mother. I wonder if his mother was on crack.

He might have been selling drugs to his mother. Like who was there? Possibly nobody, And that's what I'm trying to say. And the fact that and if if there was nobody there, that means that those elder people took advantage of them. They put him in a position to where he already risked his freedom in his life, and they didn't kid what king with that? You know, anybody that allowed him to be out there this flagpole and

and risk his life and thought it was cool. Pretty much said that I had young boys with my kids. He was a good basketball player, young dude. He was nice and basketball and a lot of He tried to do a lot of negative things. And I remember the old g s that was getting money. They took him under their wing, brought him into his house, moved him into him, started trying to send in the basketball kid. They kept him alive, you understanding, he still was doing

a lot of things. They would, but they made sure that he was alive. They put him, they gave him so many different opportunities, you know, and he's still alive today. And he and at thirteen he could have lost his life even though he went through some trials, he went got in cars ray and all that. But he's still alive today. Well not really, but you know, close anyway, it could be, it could similar similars, a lot of similarities in the situation. But another great episode. You know,

I want to say thank you, yes and poort episode. Man. You know, look, we've we've taken the time to go to some real, real life things. You know. Gun violence is rampant in America right now, especially in our communities,

and we want to focus on that. We want to give you every aspect, you know, as part of the people who are actually being harmed, to people who have actually been a part of the harming, and those who are building to wrap around services and just just knowing what it takes to try to you know, build and say I don't know what to do when you do as boycott black murder, you know what I'm saying, And

that's that's that's the movement right now. So I just want to say thank you ta Chico, you know, thank you to Kareem for for being here and and with that we're off. Man. Look like I always say, Man, I'm not gonna always be right. Tamik is not gonna always be wrong, but we will both always and I mean always be authentic piece Number one podcast. That's how we own it.