Creativity is Not Optional

if it's infinite like sands. And whether you are partnered with or without children, or in a career where you want more boundaries, this is the place for you for all family structures. We're here to take a time out to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim our time.

So add I've been thinking a lot about unicorn space, this idea that, like the mythical eq wine, finding space and time uninterrupted attention for things that we love is often difficult because in our society we're often defined by our roles. We're often taught to give our most valuable currency away, our time and service of others. And I remember Anne Marie Slaughter said something to me that I

thought was really powerful. She said that she feels in community with all women across the globe because at some point, every single one of us will be defined by our roles. And so that gets me to something I want to tell you about a keynote that I started to write for a women's college that asked me to speak to them, and the speech I delivered was probably a little bit

different than the one they thought I was going to deliver. Typically, right command been speeches, or these speeches that we give to the next generation are all about you can do anything and you can be anything. But my speech was called you only have ten years left to live. It was inspired by Heidi Shriks what the Constitution means to me.

What I loved was that she embodied her younger self, and so as I started the speech, I embodied the twenty one year old Eve and a d D. I was going to be president and senator, right because like who stopped legislating around four o'clock? Like, you have so much more time. Right, you can legislate during the day, and obviously you can pass all of your executive orders

at night. But I'm not going to give up my dream of being a nick City dancer, because why would I could just fly Air Force one into New York because it's such a short jaunt from d C, and I'll do the twelve thirty shows. I start this way because I want to remind our listeners of who you were, say at or that time in your life when you had that much potential, that much power, that much fire,

and what happens to it? Why did I call it I only had ten years left to live, because by the time I was thirty one, my fire had gone out. It had been extinguished by my roles, by what society expected of me, of the unpaid labor, that discipline and screen time and the bathing and grooming of kids, and on and on. So what happens to us where we go from being told the lie that we could be and do anything to the point where society rears its

ugly head. And how do we prevent that? For women especially? There will always be rain, There will always be the other backpack to unpack, or the extracurricular sports you have to take your kids to. But as my favorite Vivian Green quote, which can come off cheesy, but I still think it's very important, right we don't wait for the storm to pass. We have to learn to dance in

the rain. And this idea of unicorn space, which is something different than self care and friendships, which are also important. This space to reclaim who we were at our most vibrant, are most powerful, our most passionate version of who we were can always be there and can be reclaimed if we've lost it. It's just about being intentional and thinking about how we can do this within the current structures

of how we live in America today. We have to understand the hurdles that our society is put in front of us, the hurdles to that sustained attention to things that we love. And one of those hurdles is the permission to be interested in our own lives and interesting to ourselves. That permission to be unavailable from our roles, that idea that we are defined as individuals as opposed

to in relation to others. In fact, even in the daily act of wearing our kids initials on our neck, wearing mom on our neck, I have to say a d D. I said to my kids, you know, I need unavailability from my roles. I need unavailability to reclaim what makes me me, And so I'm going to start with actually wearing my own initial around my neck. And my kids are so proud of me. They're like, my mommy doesn't wear our initials, she wears her own. And they know my name is E V. And my name

is powerful and I'm reclaiming it. Second is this idea about guilt and shame. And the third is our ability to use our voice, which we're talking about throughout this whole season, that we get a chance to vocalize what we need. Why are those things the idea that being unavailable, a lack of guilt and shame, and using my voice a deity? Why are those so hard to exercise in

everyday life. All of those things that you mentioned their societal constructs that are put up on us and as women, especially in multitasking is something that we do and it's a real sense of a badge of honor to be able to do everything so well, all at once, without even breaking a sweat. But in fact, multitasking is bad for the brain, and we don't talk about that enough. In fact, when you look at the biology of the brain and you look at how multitasking works, it is

divided attention. And if we want better brain health, better mental health, a sense of resiliency, and a lack of burnout, then we can't divide our attention in a million different ways. We have to have that focused, sustained attention, which is what the unicorn spaces. It has lots of brain benefits. This idea of creativity not as a luxury or a nice to have, but a necessity. And when we carve out that unicorn space and live within our unicorn space, we are giving our body and our mind a chance

to really be optimized. When we are fully inhabiting that unicorn space, it improves our resilience, It decreases our stress, it decreases our burnout. It also has lots of other benefits the growth, mindset, innovation, problem solving, creating a sense of meaning and purpose, imagination, creativity. They are actually very important hard metrics that impact the bottom line when it comes to our health, our mental health and physical health.

Creativity has been shown to improve anxiety and depression. It changes the brain, It decreases our cortisol level, which is a stress hormone, and it has a huge biological boost. I wonder if I can interject with just the definition of the flow state. Before we get into the secret formula of creativity, I want to give props a d D to me Hi. Chicks sent me Hi a hard name to pronounce, but he is the founder, an originator

of the concept of the flow state. And what's so beautiful about his work is he identified something that we've all felt, wonder, the wonder of what it feels like when you lose yourself in an activity. Now, children and society are the conspirers against flow. They come in to

cut up our time into little bits. And actually the idea that women that we deserve sustained attention for our flow state, for things that we love to me is how we redefine happiness, because what we found lately is that and this is what the research shows, if you focus on how to be happy, the pursuit of happiness

for happiness sake actually makes you more sad. And indeed, you could talk more about that from a scientific perspective, but what I will say is that happiness is a clue that you found your unicorn space and whether it's going back to your childhood, but if you had trauma in your childhood, maybe it's looking forward to who you want to be. However you get there, and we will be talking about this a lot over the season. It

is not easy to inhabit your unicorn space. If it was, we'd all be living to two hundred, frolicking in a field of lavender. And I think it's also important to recognize that any amount of time, even if it's five minutes in that flow state, can have ripple effects for our whole day, and actually biological effects. You may not know when you're in getting into the flow state, but you certainly know when you've gotten out. It's that sense

of timelessness in the present moment. We lose track of time, we lose track of where we are, and there's many ways to get there. It's not the same for everyone. Probably one of my favorite benefits of getting into the unicorn space is strengthening our sense of autonomy, which when we're married, with children and in many roles that can be weakened, and we as human beings are meaning seeking,

purpose driven creatures. When we cultivate a unicorn space, get into that sense of flow, we find our sense of purpose and mastery within our cells, which in turn gives us mastery in all of the other roles Eve that you've already talked about. I think that's so beautiful because some people say it's you know, simmering my signature sauce, but without the expectation and the interruption of children and

a partner. I think the beauty is understanding what it is for you, and it can change and it doesn't always have to be the same, and it's not always going to be easy, which we're going to be talking about with our guests today, creativity expert Natalie Nixon. I think the most beautiful thing that Natalie Nixon talks about is the fact that creativity, the flow state, is not

just wonder. It also requires rigor. And that rigor is what's hard because to find rigor and an activity to learn to climb that mountain, to learn that signature sauce, to learn about the gender division of labor, which was my unicorn space for so long, does require this sustained attention. I can't shake this idea that when we think about the word creativity, we think of youth, but in fact,

creativity as we age becomes even more important. There was a study done of older adults which found that when older adults are engaged in creative pursuits, there is a greater sense of connectivity in the brain, but also within their selves. There's better cognitive functioning, and there's a greater sense of well being. Now, this is not just nice to have stuff. This is essential, critical stuff that we need.

That is to me the reason why I had to write a whole second book on this topic because it should be essential to your life. It is not optional. But often we've dismissed this part of our life as a nice to have with words I want to retire, like hobby or vanity project or leisure or distractions. And I will say that you said something very important about loneliness. People ask me when I asked this question now two thousands, this idea of what makes you you and what and

how do you share it with the world. A lot of people ask me, well, what's the second question important for? Why can't it just be what makes me me? Why do you have to ask how do you share it with the world? And the reason why is because there is a distinction between self care, which is important, but

I often likened it to a more passive pursuit. I mean it can be active like a spinning class, or taking a walk with your dog, But it doesn't have the same benefits as that connection, the sharing with your world. That active pursuit is something different. That's what we're talking about here. Those are baseline things that we should all have. The next iteration and elevation up is this idea of the active pursuit of creative self expression that makes you you.

Whether it be my friend who started as a baker and now she's leveling up to making robotic cakes that literally move, that's her unicorn space. The idea is the sharing with the world, whether it's your neighbor, whether it's becoming in a marathon group, whether it's getting ukulele recital for five best friends. That flow state often comes in the process of the connection of sharing, and that flow

stage is contagious. The unicorn space is contagious. When you see your friends embodying that creativity or in that sense of flow and they're really lit up, it makes you want that too. So we're gonna be talking to Natalie Nixon after the break about all of these things. I cannot wait for you to hear what she has to say.

I'm excited to welcome today's guest, Natalie Nixon not only a friend, she is a creativity strategist, global keynote speaker and author of the award winning the Creativity Leap Unleashed Curiosity, Improvisation and Intuition at Work. Hi Natalie, Hi Eve, It's

so good to see you and to be here. Thanks for having me so before you came on, we were talking a little bit about the hurdles to creativity, all of those permissions we have to give ourselves to be unavailable, to literally burn guilt and shame for spending sustained attention on things that we love, and to use our voice. And now I want to go into our shared passion,

which is creativity frameworks. Your wonder Rigor framework. We mentioned it earlier as well as some of the findings around how important not just curiosity is, but connection sharing your creativity with others, whether it be chat chat on Instagram like I got to see you last night during your beautiful ballroom chance, or sending your crochet Harry Potter doll

to your aunt as my other friend just did. She just completed her money and the last secret formula see that I like to talk about, besides curiosity and connection is the idea of completion, what it looks like to actually complete something, as opposed to living in a graveyard of unfulfilled dreams, as my friend once called it. So to to go through the journey from curiosity to connection

a completion. I would love for you to tell a little bit about how you help people to aim for Curiosity is not a nice to have, but it must have in their business and social and intimate lives. Sure. Well, you know, Eve, I've a really loopy background in cultural anthropology and fashion. I was a professor for sixteen years

and loved what I did until I didn't anymore. I actually started falling in love with my side hustle, which at the time that that was figure eight thinking, and I was getting invited into companies to help them design

and build cultures of innovation. That was really an outgrowth after I gave a ted Ex Philadelphia talk which was essentially my PhD dissertation and plain English, I basically proclaimed that the future of work is jazz and here's why and here's how, and that talk really catapulted me into getting invited into companies to help them become more improvisational, which essentially me it is helping them to become more adaptive,

more experimental, more self organizing. This was probably about eight years ago now, and everyone was chasing the eye word. Everyone was trying to innovate, innovate, innovate, and well, that's cool and that's fine. I was seeing that there's no lingua franca for what we meant by innovation. We were kind of like kept missing each other. And we, I mean the collective corporate America. I know that I can't critique a system without offering an alternative, another way to

be thinking about this. And so what my hunch was telling me is that we were starting in the wrong place, and we actually should be starting with creativity. However, as you well know, Eve and add that if you lead with creativity and the how old halls of corporate America,

let look at you like you have three hits. So that began my journey of figuring out what might be a simple and accessible way that I could help other people who don't necessarily think that they're creative to think about creativity in their work, to amplify it and the ways that they do their work so that they can ultimately innovate. And through a few years of really tinkering with these ideas, I landed on this definition that creativity is our ability to toggle between wonder and rigor to

solve problems and produce novel value. Along the way, I came up with the definition that I like for innovation, which is that innovation is an invention converted into scalable value. And that value could be cultural value, social value, financial value. And what's that conversion agent what helps us go from an invention to an innovation? It's creativity. I love that toggling between wonder and rigor, tow words and frameworks that you would never put next to each other, and yet

both are so essential for creativity. You know, you say, I know it may feel more important to dig in your heels in times of crisis and only focus on practical survival mode stuff, And you're right. Creativity is incredibly practical and it is crucial to survival. I laughed when I read that, because we never think of creativity as something that is practical or something that's necessarily a survival skill.

Creativity isn't nice to have, It's a luxury. It's something to do when all of your to do list is done and all those boxes have been checked off, but you really turn that notion on its head. And I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about why you think creativity is a survival skill, especially for the audience that is listening, that is very

much in survival mode right now. So I launched the Creativity Lead in the middle of the beginning phases of the COVID nineteen pandemic in June, and I have to tell you that there were many days I would wake up, you know, right before I go to and I was thinking, Gosh, when people are dying, when people are losing their jobs, when people are going through so much ambiguity and uncertainty,

is creativity a luxury? Am I offering up a mental model that will be additive and helpful to the ways we will be able to navigate this time and going forward. You know, as you said, it's not a luxury. It is actually more essential than ever to hone your creativity capacity or your c Q your creativity quotient as I like to call it. It's important more than ever to develop that capacity and to hone it because creativity is a competency. It's something that we can exercise and get

better at. It's something that when we look at our own children, and we think about our own childhoods. We have so many great examples of our ability to toggle between wonder and rigor to solve problems. What has happened is that through traditional mainstream ways of being educated, we get the signals that we should air on the side

of solutions versus process. Creativity is also not a luxury because when I think about some of the more underprivileged, marginalized groups in our society, oh my gosh, it's full of create creative moments and output. Because, as it turns out, creativity loves constraints. Creativity loves constraints on our time, it loves constraints on money, it loves constraints on people resources.

It's actually just as we know that our greatest learning happens when we fail, when we mess up big time, it's when we have those strengths as in a pandemic, that creativity really flourishes. Wow, I'm sort of freaking out on that right, this idea that creativity love constraints because you sort of think you have to be completely free

before you can live a creative life. But the idea that similar to what Natalie is saying, is that in my research, this idea that creativity can only come for the privileged or unicorn space is really only for the top echelon. It was almost the opposite. It was the freed to calos of the world, and this idea that through oppression and and trauma, as we know that some of the most creative acts have been done and it is subversive and we have to push through to do it.

Not only is it not reserved for the top echelon of privilege, but we can't let its stay there. No, we cannot. I love how you just reference the word subversive because and some of my kino what I'm talking about improvisation, I meet people where they are by first

acknowledging that most of us are terrified to improvise. And that's in part because when we think about improvisation, we think about about really impressive jazz musicians who do like phenomenal in the moment, in in flow, majestic innovation and output of sound. Or we think about the great comedic artists of Saturday Live and what they're able to do

in the moment. It's a been intimidating, but I remind people that you hack your way through every day like probably between breakfast and lunchtime, you have had to hack your way through supporting a spouse, a child, a colleague, a client. And then if you look even further back, we were really great improvisers as kids. There's an image I show of a basketball hoop in the form of a milk crate, of a punched out bottom, and it's hanging under a side that says no ball playing here.

And I love that photograph because that's such a great example of creativity loving constraints. Because in a lot of our cities, in poorer communities, where there's no grassy playground and and net hoops to play ball or light at night, do you see that all the time? That's incredible hacking and creativity. I talked about how back in the late seventies early eighties we saw the greatest divestment of funding for for arts education or public schools. And what did

African American male teams do. They turned a turntable into a percussion instrument, and scratching is now one of the most iconic sounds in hip hop, which is the largest music genre in the world right now. It's just all these examples of how in these pressure cooker moments, we

can be quite subversive in some really extraordinary ways. You talk a lot about this idea of creativity being hardwired, that we as human beings are hardwired for a creativity, and yet it's so difficult for some of us to cultivate because it seems like if we're hardwired for creativity, then it should just bubble up like it does for kids.

So yeah, so we see that that hardwiredness. And I'll just go back to kind of breaking down how I define creativity to explain why I say we're hardwired to be creative, if you accept or just kind of hold for a moment, that creativity is our ability to toggle between wonder and rigor to solve problems. Well, well, let's break down what each of those dimensions are. Wonder is about awe and audacity and deep curiosity and asking these

big blue sky what if questions. Wonder is also about pause ing, because what I remind people is that you can't wonder going eighty miles. You just can't, Like you will burn out. You've got to sit your behind down and pause and space out for a bit. Right. So, if you think about the attributes of wonder being about

that curiosity, that expansive thinking. That is something that really is innate to us when we're left alone, when we get off the carousel of of career chasing or whatever your particular carousel is, and we definitely see it evident in our own children and when we reflect back on our own childhoods. The rigor piece, you know, Rigor is discipline. It's focus, it's mastery of fundamentals. It's time on task, it's constraints. It's not particularly sexy, and it is essential.

It's also very solitary work. When we tend to think about creative we only think about the wonder dimension. We we forget that the rigor dimension is also part of it. Now does the rigor dimension come naturally to us? Not always, But at the same time, if you're so fortunate blessed to have a parent who can read to you as as a little toddler, you don't go from that to like in my case, devouring Nancy Drew Mysteries um overnight.

It's through the rigor of the repetition of being focused on that, and the seed of that is this desire to get to that next level. So if we dig a little more deeply into those those dimensions of wonder and rigor, I think we begin to see how we're

heart wired. The other thing I just want to add to that is I have another framework that I like to share about creativity, which just the three eyes, which is to say that the way we can consistently toggle between wonder and rigular solve problems is through improvisation, inquiry, and intuition. We've talked about inquiry or curiosity. We've talked

a bit about improvisation. The intuition peace is what I call pattern recognition, and as it turns out, we are hardwired to into it because we have in our bodies something called the vegas nerve. It's the second longest nerve in our body. The first longest nerve is the spinal cord, and the vegas nerve extends from my cranium down through our hearts into our gut. And so we literally have this interior human antenna that lights up before the rationality can even set in that helps us sense make and

say we should go left, not right. I should work with her and not him. I should be with this person, not with that person. Right. So, so the cool thing about intuition is that it never leaves us. It's like a radar sonar. A muscle has to be exercised. We have to use it. The more we use it, the louder and clearer it gets. The less we use it,

the flabb ear and dimmer it gets. So if you come along with me and my my definite should of creativity and also incorporate those three eyes, that intuition piece, which is this way of exercising it is another example of that hardwiredness of creativity within us. That was actually my question of you know, if it's hardwired, and yet if it's difficult to cultivate, how do we actually cultivate it?

And it's through the three eyes, Through the three eyes yes, by consistently committing to learning how to ask new different questions, actively listening self inquiry as well as asking others, which can be pretty hard if we're not used to it. Improvisation which is about being experimental, adaptive, and the intuition and I think the a way to do it, not the only way, but I have found is a technique I like to share. People be a clumsy student of

something anything. I'm a clumsy student of social ballroom dance and I love it. Because I literally practice the three eyes all the time, I have to into it more when I'm dancing with a dance partner. If I'm not getting something, I've got to how to reframe the question. It helpful when I have a range of teachers. I observe how my peers who are better than me, how they do things, and I improvised quite a bit and

that transfer. Those are activating neural synapses in my brain which transfer over to my daily work to help me be more humble about exercising the three eyes in my daily work. What's your favorite ballroom type dance to do right now? Is the chacha? Because my Bombom dance to do that. They do something called a showcase, and it was my first showcase I participated in, and I thought the chasha was going to be easy. But the shasha is so precise, it's quick, there's a fluidity to it.

But the beauty of it comes in the syncopation of how you decide to linger on a certain movement and then followed up with rapid succession with other movements. I love Latin, but I also love foxtrot, which is an example of a smooth a dance. It's it's beautiful as well. I just love to dance. I love the lynday and the tango. So one day maybe we can we can dance together. I would love that. And the tango is hard, so hard, it's so beautiful. Yes, I was trained as

an Indian classical dancer and did ballet for decades. Oh my god, we should all three dance together because I love this communal unicorn space. This is the metaphor that we began this episode with, which was we can't wait for the storm to pass. We have to learn to dance in the rain. And I will say, Natalie, your work to give us permission to be creative in many different forms in a wondrous and rigorous way is why I've always been drawn to your work and I want

to thank you for sharing your insights. Thank you both so much for having me. This has been a real pleasure. I loved it. Natalie. Where can people find you? People can learn more about my speaking and advisory work at Figure eight thinking dot com. That's the word figure the number eight thinking. Hi, it's me Eve, and I want to tell you about my latest book, Find Your Unicorn Space. So you're playing fair and have established equity in your home.

But now what it's time to find your Unicorn Space. My new book will help you set personal goals, rediscover your interests, and reclaim the creative expression of self that makes you uniquely you. Find your Unicorn Space is a mix of research space, how to advice, and big picture inspirational thinking. I hope it can show you a clear path to reclaim your permission to be unavailable and manifest your own unicorn space. Find your Unicorn Space is available

now wherever books are sold. So every episode of this podcast will be ending with an action atem for you are listeners that we call a time out. This is really a time for you to focus on yourself and reflect on what you're hearing today. And we're starting the conversation first with ourselves and then ultimately with our partners and others. So a d D I'll say that one of my unicorn spaces is this podcast with you, because, as we discussed with Natalie, creativity does not have to

be browsing Blick for paint and and art brushes. It really is a combination of these amazing three things of curiosity, where we are curious about issues around what happens to women when we're defined by our roles, where we can come here together and connect as spiritual friends and share ourselves with the world. And then the most important thing is the completion, the fact that we actually did this. We've been talking about this for a while, but that

we are completing this. It may not be perfect, we're new at this, but we're uploading it for listeners. Were completing something. And that's, as my friend Amanda says, the opposite of a graveyard of unfulfilled dreams. What else for you feels like unicorn space? Besides this podcast, I'm hoping I'm putting the words in your mouth that this is

one of your unicorn spaces. So I totally agree. I think this podcast and the conversations that we have with each other and these amazing guests make me really deeply reflect on my life and bring a new sense of energy and joy to all of those areas, which I'm so grateful for. You know, when you first asked me the question a TD, what is your unicorn space? You think of these self care activities that you've done forever, maybe things that you've done as a kid, and you

go right into that. It's a reflex, right because we often think of creating space for ourselves as self care, because that's what society has taught us. But what I love about really crafting this concept of unicorn space is this idea that you're creating a space for yourself, but then you are giving it out to the world to

help better yourself, but equally better the world. And so when I reflected a little bit more deeply on what my unicorn spaces, my favorite part of being a doctor is my ability to communicate with patients and really patient education. There's nothing greater for me. I went into medicine for the human story and the power of the human story.

So there's no greater joy for me than when I'm talking to a patient and I'm explaining something complex or difficult, like a really new on scientific principle, and then that aha moment for them when the light really goes off in their eyes, like they get it. But what I hear from you saying is that you're living at a

really sweet spot between me and happiness. My wish for our listeners, and what I hope are prompt will be this week, is that they can start understanding with us how powerful it is to sit at that intersection of meaning and happiness. So this week's time out exercise is a fantasy for those of us who have been journaling alongside these exercises. Pull out your pen and paper when you can if you're not driving, and answer this question.

If you were given a year on a deserted island, thank survivor, but with every privilege in the world, all the internet you needed, all the food you needed, your kids are completely fine when you get home a year later. The fantasy. Just go with it. What would you do with that year? And the reason why I asked that is because I asked this to many people in my

Unicorn space research. And while I heard cool things like I would cross pollinate a mango and a pineapple and call it a mang apple, what I didn't hear was get botox, get a manicure, drive an expensive car, make more money, work more m HM. And I think that reflection of understanding what intrinsically motivates us can give us

the tools to bring it back to real life. So that's the time out first, the big dream of what you do in that year, and really dive deep into that fantasy and what would you do with all of that time? And energy and life force, and then think about how you can incorporate all of that goodness into your day to day life. And in our next episode, we're going to start looking at the practical tips, tricks solutions to actually bring you some found time by redistributing

domestic responsibilities and adding fairness to your home. Thank you for listening to Time Out, a production of I Heart Podcasts and Hello Sunshine. I'm Eve Rodsky, author of the New York Times bestseller fair Play and Find your Unicorn Space. Follow me on social media at Eve Rodsky and learn more about our work at fair Play Life. And I'm doctor add No Rucar, a Harvard physician with a specialty

and stress resilience, burnout, and mental health. Follow me on social media at dr add ne Rucar and find out more about my work at doctor add dot com. That's d r A d I t I dot com. Our Hello Sunshine team is Amanda Farren, Aaron Stover, and Jennifer Yonker. Our I Heart Media team is Ali Perry, Jennifer Bassett, and Jessica Crimeschitch. We hope you all love taking a

much needed time out with us today. Listen and subscribe to time out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.