Welcome to Tickets to Travel, the Business of Travel Experiences. And as always, I'm your host, Mario Bwin, and today's guest is a man who knows how to move and not just through the airports. He's a media sales strategist at Travel Planning Pro and a marathoner who has taken his passion for running around the world.
Right. Literally from our shared experience working at Expedia and living social to mapping out travel experiences that connect people with purpose, Neil Sheridan has been on the front lines of the online travel media revolution, but when he's not building brands or booking big deals, you'll find him lacing up his shoes and chasing pavement.
He's run four marathons, including New York, twice, Chicago and Philly. With his eyes now set on hitting all six of the Abbott World Marathon majors. And for Neil, the race is only half the fun. The real adventure is planning the journey, where to stay, what to eat, and how to recover like a champion from the start line in Staten Island to the finish in Central Park.
Neil's got insights not just on running the 26.2, but on how to travel smart plan right. And maximize the marathon moment with tips for runners, brands, and cities alike. Whether you're a casual jogger or training for your first big race, this one is for you. Follow Neil's journey on Instagram at Silver Fox Running usa.
And if you're a brand looking to engage a passionate, purpose-driven community, take notes. Because the race isn't just on the course, it's in the marketing, the moments and the memories we create. So hydrate, stretch it out and lace up. But don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on all the socials because tickets to Travel starts now.
Welcome to Tickets to Travel, the Business of Travel Experiences. I'm your host, Mario Budin, and today we have a special guest. Someone who I've actually worked with over the years. In particular, we have shared experience at this company called Expedia, and then we went on to work at a very big startup called Living Social, and I was in the travel portion of Living Social called Living Social Escapes.
Neil Sheridan was at the media portion, right? Yeah, that's correct. So I, I think we have a unique situation here because I would consider you a travel professional. In the space, but you're also very passionate about marathon running. Yeah, that's correct. I've done four marathons in total. Three actually have been majors.
I've done New York twice and done Chicago, and done Philly as well. I'm still itching to get back out there and do some more, but the experience of being in the marathons. There's like nothing else. You're a little sidelined right now. You've got a broken hand, which doesn't really matter for marathons obviously, but how do you approach this?
'cause you have to have been running seriously for since when. Yeah, so the passion for me, for running all started years ago, almost 50 years old right now. But the active lifestyle of running started probably when I was a teenager and. I had actually ran varsity track in cross country all throughout high school.
I actually ran in college as well, and then it teetered off a little bit afterwards, but then I got the itch back to start getting back into the running and the corporate challenges that they did out in New York City. And then I. Really started to get into the New York Roadrunners Club, New York roadrunners.org.
For those out there who are not in the New York area or in the New York area, it is a tremendous organization to get yourself active. I. And competing in races. That could be from, as I say, a 5K, all the way up to, of course, the marathon that they actually own and operate with the city. I've actually been, as you say, running for probably 30 plus years competitively, and the passion is still there.
I feel like people always say they want to do a marathon and then they like think about how much training is involved, but you've done enough of these. To understand the training one, but also to go to different destinations to do the marathon, and so. In terms of our audience, what we like to do is really look at the event itself and what goes into one planning travel for it, but also the preferences.
Because what you're essentially doing, if anybody were to stumble upon this podcast in particular, is they're probably an aspiring runner and they're like, you know what? I run for fun. It is a really big bucket list thing for me to do my first marathon. Neil, what was your first marathon and how did you plan it?
Was it New York? Yeah, so New York was my first marathon. Did that back in 2013. So luckily being here in the local area, it wasn't much of a transit to get there. But in, even if you do live 25 or 30 or 50 miles outside of the city. Marathon actually starts over in Staten Island. So still it is a commute to get down to either the ferry or the bus that takes you over there.
But my first true experience to actually go was in Chicago and ran that in 2015. There are a variety of ways that you can go and research to be part of the experience. You're not going to go there for one day, so of course you want to think about the majors out there. The majors that consist of. Chicago, New York, Boston, Berlin, London, and, and Tokyo.
There are travel and tourism ways and marathon tours. I think a marathon travel and tours, that actually is a destination that people can go to and be able to book it through, or you can literally do it on your own. Again, Mario, we, we worked at Expedia. That could be a way for you to book your travel. The thing is you want to do is.
As you're going and doing these marathons, it's about the experience, right? You're not going there. What I wanted to back you up on a little bit is how did it feel doing your first one when that gun goes off and you start running and you're like, I've got what, four hours here? What goes through your head a little bit?
'cause I have my own challenges with running. Right? And so I'm just curious, what was the thought when you find you are like, Hey, I've been training for this for most of my life effectively, right? Mm-hmm. You said high school, college, and then doing a couple corporate runs, and then you're like, I'm gonna do Chicago, and then once that gun goes off, what's the thought process of getting your pacing going and just understanding that?
You have to be in the pocket. I think there's a lot of mental preparation that goes on before you get to that starting line. Nobody's ever gonna just show up. I. That the marathon and run it, it, it's happened. But there is a whole process that you would go and build in, in terms of training, right? Yeah. So you're gonna look at it 3, 4, 5 months previous to when you're actually gonna hit that start line and build up on the miles and training that you're going to.
By that point, you're mentally prepared. This is just from osmosis, people that I know who have done it. You build up to, you never finish it the whole 26 miles, but you get to a point where in the first month you maybe do 10. So what's that typical training program look like for someone? Yeah, so some of the elite runners out there, they're gonna probably run up to 90 or a hundred miles a week and.
Most of the amateur and regular individuals out there probably gonna get to about 45 to 50 miles a week in total. Okay. Nobody's ever gonna run a full marathon before they run the marathon. Usually it's about 20 to 22 miles is the longest run that they do. That typically happens about a month or so before the marathon occurs.
Mentally, as you say, you're prepared when you hit that start line that. This isn't gonna be overbearing. This isn't going to be a task that I can accomplish. Most of the individuals who are out there and these majors by the way, have 30,000 or 40,000, 50,000 people that run it. That's a great comradery out there for them.
I. To be part of and it motivates them to get out there and you run and compete. And so people do it for causes. Yeah, people do it. So there's a kind of this inherent community, and so there's even this community one, you're going through the action of being on in the marathon, but there's all the buildup as well.
And so as you are in it, about what point of the marathon did you start to maybe say, I'm getting a little tired, or I'm running by this pizza shop. I'd love to get a slight, like what goes through your head? Yeah, I think people sometimes get mentally checked out. Right? And within the marathon, 26.2 miles.
They call the wall, which is where you get to mile 20, right? That's what they considered the wall, where people get to that point and try to push through that level, and I. Depending on how many people who are spectating, it can keep you focused on task at hand, and some people are there for the recreational aspect of it.
Some people are there for the competitiveness to it. Me personally, I'm there for the competitive, but. Again, a community. You mentioned before, huge community in the running. There's also ultra marathons that are out there that are 50, a hundred miles, right? So there is a distinct difference, of course, between the individual who's looking to do the 5K right?
Race. I am more. Of about a person who advocates to get people out there to run, whether it's a mile, 5K, five miles, whatever it is that you should get out there for exercise, for health, et cetera. But to your point and your question earlier, right? You could teeter out there in terms of the overall experience that you're going through, it depends on who the individual is.
They're mentally strong. Yeah. I, I think everybody, they think about it, but to execute it and then go through the process of getting to this level where I'm gonna hit all the majors. Yeah. What, what are the majors? Yeah, so the, all the majors are, as I said before, London and Berlin, Tokyo, New York, Chicago, and Boston.
Some of them you can qualify for right at your time. Some of them are a lottery, but most of them that you can do some type of charitable component to it in order to be part of the experience. They call this the six majors that are out there. There is, I believe it's actually the Abbott is the sponsor.
For the six majors you take from one Abbot Laboratories, and then it is a goal for an individual to run all of them. They run throughout the course of the year. There. It's difficult to probably do in one year, but the people set their goal on. We won a year or whatever that is, right. To run it. And a marathon, listen, it does take a toll on you, on your body the day after.
You are a little sluggish. When I was at a TripAdvisor. Mm-hmm. My boss at the time had trained for the Boston and he came back to the office and he was just so happy that he finished. One, but man, he was like, couldn't even walk and he had been training like he'd done the whole program, but he's like that extra five miles or whatever, 10 miles.
He's like, that was something that I. It's hard to prepare for, so he, I remember him just popping pills in killers the entire time, and so you can't really prepare somebody for that. Right. Oh. What was your experience like? Did, were you just laid up for a week afterwards or? Yeah, after my first one, I think I went out like a cannon.
Oh, and so I've had no idea of how to manage the actual race because you think about, you train and feel you're invincible and put all that training behind you, and then you get to a point where you've gone too fast. Right? Tortoise and the hare kind of experience. Yeah, in analogy. So you wouldn't recommend like going fast and then like pace pacing yourself after a certain no mile?
I would. Steady as goes. Yep. Stays, wins the race as tortoise, tortoise says. So the, the tortoise and the hair analogy is, is how you would run a marathon. Yeah. The next day you're going to be sore no matter what it Yeah. You, you've never run that much. You put. A speed component into it as well. Right? So you're now running, most of your training is happening at a slower pace than at the pace that everybody else is going at DUR during that.
So you look at everybody running in front of you or to the side of you, right? And you wanna stay in in rhythm with them. So yeah, you don't want to get trampled one. You also. Wanna be respectful of, 'cause you're competitive. You wanna make sure that what A, you finish with B, you do it in a competitive time because I'm sure in terms of that, back to that community piece.
There's a gathering at the end, maybe with friends and family, and then you start to really dig into the time and doing this retrospective right, of which mile you could have done better or something else. Is that true? Very true. You hit the nail on the head on that one. I think when, when you do your first marathon, you have nothing to compare it to.
Sure. So you're, then you, you're. You think you can run it at X time based on your training, and then you get to it and you have a baseline right, of what you're running. And then afterwards, now you have to start to figure out, okay, what did I do right and wrong during there? What could I have done differently in my training?
How did I feel within my training during the components of it? And so you started look at it from a retrospect as as you stated. And then the next one, you try to utilize what you've accomplished during that first one and apply it. To the next one to hopefully have a better time. Boston in itself does have a qualifying time to it.
Now most of these majors do as well in order to actually get a guaranteed entry into it. And so you need to actually have a qualified time, and it's typically by age. The younger you are, the lower the time is. My best marathon was three hours and 11 minutes, but my best half is three hours and 11 minutes.
That's fast. It, it was, I think I was 35 or 37 when I, when I did it. Okay. It now, trying to get back in terms of three, three and a quarter would be ideal for me. And if you're going into the these majors your age, depending on the actual race and which one I. It could be higher or lower. When we talk about getting into and qualifying into an actual marathon, it doesn't mean that you actually hit the standard time.
You actually have to be lower than the actual standard time. Got it. Which ones of these majors do you have? Do you have to qualify for E for all of them? Not all of them. Boston actually is one of the ones that you actually do need to qualify for. Okay. The other ones are very selective in terms of it 'cause there's only a limited amount of entries accepted.
New York has 50,000 or plus. Sure. So it's the largest. But then if you look at all these other majors, London's very tight. You can't have 50,000 people running through the streets or it would just be a mess, obviously. But So there is a capacity thing. There is, and the same thing they actually do with Boston.
There's a capacity, but there's also the other layer of having a qualified standard time. So they put out every year the actual standard time by age group. And there's men and women, of course, it's very competitive to get in. So there's only a select number of entries that they accept per age group and per gender.
Yeah. That's interesting because then I always think about it in terms of travel, right? So you, you have capacity. Mm-hmm. And then you always look at, because I used to, back in the day, I used to manage New York City. For Expedia, and so obviously that first weekend in November is always sold out and because it draws people from all over the world to come and participate in this.
As a runner, and you've been in different destinations, what was your preference? One, maybe to book the travel, but do you wanna be really close to where you need to start the race or is it like, how do you approach. The planning of your travel when you're going to be in the event? Yeah, good question. Most of these.
Marathons. There is some type of expo that's like the fanfare around it. And so it's typically at the end? No. So the expo happens either. Okay. In New York, actually, it's leading up to it. So they'll give you, they have vendors there that have all part of the running community and and running organization, so they'll have.
You know, rollers, the depression guns, the massage guns that exist out there. So all the vendors have participation at the expos to talk to the potential marathon runners or their families. Right. And so are you saying you, you like to be close to that expo? The expo is in, in some cases it's before the event.
Okay. And then like in Philadelphia is the leading up to the event. And, and so it's usually an essential location close to where the start line is. Oh, in Philadelphia then, so it's a it is like a conference. Yeah, like a work conference. You get your bib, you get the, your, your shirt. There's an experience that, that you go there and you learn a little bit maybe of the course and Right.
See videos of the course as well. So that is more of a, an experience leading up to it. To your question about like, where do you wanna be from the start and finish. That depends on the event. So New York right, is you have to take a bus out to it, but because it's Staten Island where it starts, it's just Staten Island where it starts.
Right. And so for the novice, like myself, you're going through every borough and it ends in Central Park. That's correct. So most people plan to stay, say Times Square. Or Central Park West or in that area where the actual event ends. And so the finish is, as you say, in Tavern on the green in Central Park.
But the. Bosses that you need to take out to there are in Bryant Park. And then there are also, there's a ferry in the Staten Island ferry that takes you across, still Staten Island as well. So it's the best free trip to see the Statue of Liberty. It is the, the Staten Island Ferry. It's six in the morning.
Yes it is. But it is like in Chicago. You the, you wanna be close to Grant Park because that actually is where the start and finish is. So you typically are looking for hotels around the area. I think I had stayed at Virgin Hotel actually out in Chicago, and that was maybe a half a mile from where the actual starting.
And start when Finish Line was. That is perfect. You, of course, when you fly in, you're flying into either O'Hare or Midway, depending on your destination, and that's about probably 40 minutes from Central Chicago. But the hotel you wanna be at is close by, so ideally you wanna be somewhat close in proximity because you don't wanna do a lot of walking afterwards.
Right? Wherever you can get a wheelchair, that would be ideal. But yes, in terms of where you're lo located, it's, you wanna be in least close proximity to it. There, there is. Always some type of festivity that happens after the event. So you'll have to do some walking to get out of the location. There's always some type of, let's say, pump and circumstance that happens as you're getting to that finish line, but you wanna be in, in close proximity to, to where you're staying, to where the finish line is, I'm not so concerned about, is just, so the finish line is probably where, no, I think that's very helpful for people who are trying to plan this out for the first time and they're sitting there going.
All right. Wait. There's so many options, right? And I'm actually putting your travel media hat on in terms of marketing for brands specifically who are looking at runners and let's say New York, Boston, Chicago, these are all pillars of that, of those majors to a certain degree. What are some of the things that these travel brands should be doing to accommodate these guys?
Because I feel like you, you mentioned like the rags of the world. There's all these different things and a lot of times travel and especially hotels, they're just, yeah, we're just gonna sell out. It's not a big deal, but especially in New York, there's so much product. Like how do they one cater to the runner a little bit better so that they have a good experience and then they come back when it's not a marathon.
And then also it'll allow them one proximity, but also allow them to provide a premium on that room whenever they come back. What are your thoughts around that? Because you've worked with a number of brands in the past, but what do you think travel. And entertainment brands could do it to attract that type of running audience.
Yeah, that's a great question. From a marketing lens, right? When I look at the consumer who's coming into one of these destinations, right, to experience this ordeal of a mission, they wanna be catered. And so if I look at brands, how do I personalize the experience right to that consumer? Who's going into a hotel?
What am I gonna get when I actually go into the hotel? Could it be some energy jinx? Could it be some gels that you need, like to actually give you some potassium or sodium right, to help you in terms of electrolytes to help you actually in your run. I. How do I cater it from an, an experience, not just for the event.
Right? Because they also, when I say an experience, you wanna tailor that consumer to like that post event. Right? Exactly. So what am I gonna do after I actually get there? So it could be some type of voucher, right? That they could offer. I. Airlines, how they actually are catering to, to the consumer who's coming in.
Now, not everybody's going to that destination, of course, is to run, but I think if you know who that consumer is and in this day and age, right, when people, everything is all about personalization. If we can understand who the consumer is and what they've done and where they've traveled, you're gonna look at it from a route of where they're going to, and also during a certain time of year of when they're looking to do it.
So it might be like A plus B, equal C, but if it's right. I'm running in October, I'm going to Chicago and, and it could be really a perfect opportunity to target that consumer based on that. They're gonna be running the Chicago marathon during that time. Same thing, looking at like New York. Yeah. You're the target.
Yeah, I am. You Neil are the target. So how would you classify, or how would you describe that audience for a potential travel brand? Because it sounds like what you're saying is. They should partner. Mm-hmm. With other brands to pull them in and cater and personalize the experience. But this is a pretty, it's not cheap to go to a marathon.
No. So this is, tell me a little bit about what you think the demographics are, whether you have the actual numbers or not, but you're living it. Yeah. When you look at it from an intern. Intern, even an international, right. So. You have, I would say 50,000 people who run the New York Marathon. Let's say half of them are actually coming from international, right?
So the, the ideal hotel airfare, they should bundle an offer right to, to that consumer based on where they're actually coming from. Right? And then I. Also from how they could partner probably with one of the organizations who was running the event, right? There could be some type of giveaway, some type of offering that they're actually giving to create this type of experience.
Yeah. As a consumer, I looked at it there and I'm like, okay, where do I find the right hotel that's in a proximity to where they, what's gonna be the best deal? Right. Of course. You're spending a lot of money to actually go there. Yeah. So everybody's very deal conscious because you're already spending enough for the airfare, you're spending enough to actually book the hotel, and of course the training and the actual entry into the event.
What is the typical entry, just to give the audience a frame of reference? Yeah. I think the application, I could correctly, if I'm wrong, New York, I think it was about $175 or maybe $200 for the application. If you don't. Get it. Like if you're not submitted, you don't lose your money. Okay? But if you are taken, then of course then they do take your money.
But the majors are probably the most expensive. Now there, there are plenty of marathons that actually you can go and and find throughout the course of the United States. Running in the usa.com is a good site to look at their local events. So they listed every year. We, and also by state, they break it down from a mile race to a marathon.
Those are great ways to look at it from the majors. Those are probably from a hotel experience. They should cater to the consumer because as your point from a like a B2B lens, they have an idea of who that consumer is and they it, they should be partnering with. Some of the local organizations and some of the lo, the local city council of, okay, how do we connect these consumers?
Because by the way they do, are closing off the basically city for the day. So citywide. Yeah. Yeah. And again, the runners, the families of these runners, they're, yeah, I wouldn't say they're, they're middle class. They make X amount of dollars a year. They're obviously committed to doing this. They're a target. Very niche. Target clientele for any brand
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Have you ever seen a really good activation at any of these marathons where you're like, man, that was smart, that was this brand At this hotel or just in general? Yeah, I haven't seen a lot of it. At the hotel. It's usually at, at the an expo or at the start or finish line, and that's typically where you can get.
The consumer there from the families who are at the event, I think it's ideal, right, for them to actually do that, to, to market it actually at their hotel location, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they do it enough. I think they just, maybe they do a deal with the roadrunners and they have information desks and stuff like that, but there's nothing stopping like a thyroid gun to go into each one of these hotels and say, Hey, we'll pay you X amount.
We're gonna put something in. Folios things of that nature because I don't, have you seen anything like that, or it's been few and far between, I would say. Yeah. The activations aren't typically giving. Some of 'em give vouchers, but does typically happen at the expos. Right. When you're actually at the expo.
You get a whole packet, right? And that includes your number and then all of the partners that are associated to the event, they'll give you something there. Now it's not extending out with beyond the actual expo. Part of it is tied to where, where I think hotel could do a good job or, or some of these local establishments could do.
A good job is to be partnering with some of the local organizations, so like the BAA, which is like the Boston like Athletic Association, Boston. Or the New York Roadrunners Club where the, the Marriotts of the world or who or whoever. But I think there's a way to connect brands to the hotels or airfares.
Or transits. Right. Doesn't always have to be just in the actual, yeah. No, it's like I said, I've been doing these. And travel stories, and it keeps coming up where like Taylor Swift fans went to Scotland and the trams or the subway area was all Taylor. Yeah. And so even if you didn't get to go to the show, even if you're not participating in the marathon, you still feel like you're there.
And that sort of appeals to the destination itself to. To attract that event producer every single year and so on and so forth. But I feel like there's one, you've got all 50,000 runners in New York City, for example, maybe new, new York's not a great example, but maybe a smaller market where maybe they don't have the hotel inventory, but still could be impactful in terms of making this an opportunity for other businesses, whether it be restaurants or.
Attractions or other experience providers within that destination to do well? So I'm, I'm just curious if you've heard of anything, or maybe you just had a thought like, Hey, this would be a good idea because you've experienced the marathon in multiple markets, and what would've made it a little bit cooler?
I think local restaurants is something that people don't get involved in. Right. When you're staying at a hotel, your thought process is, I'm gonna have to eat at the hotel. Right? So I think local restaurants out within a proximity right, of the hotel and the actual start and finish line. Those hotels can actually do a better job probably partnering with.
Some of these local restaurants, if you look at the, let's say Denver or Nashville or maybe a city that's not in the top 10 there, as I said, there are so many marathons, so many states that run and every, each state has a, a large marathon that that occurs every year. So. The consumer is gonna, if they could run at 50 states and 50 marathons, right?
In their lifetime, not in a year, but there definitely would be an opportunity to go, I would say with the local community, a local restaurants, to have some type of, as I say, voucher to me, I look at as a consumer, right? The ideal scenario would be. You go to the event and the experience continues on that journey.
It's about a, to me it's about like this cycle, right? So I'm looking at it from a, I go, I check into my hotel. It's actually an offline customer journey. Yeah. Because in your world, all the agencies are talking about what's the customer journey from an online perspective, but what does it look like? IRL?
Yeah. Um. Exactly. So when I look at it from an a, like an omnichannel right? Aspect of it, you're. Booking your trip online, right? You're then getting to the destination. You've booked your airfare, you've booked your hotel, right? I haven't really booked my activities right? 'cause I'm not really sure exactly what I'm gonna do, how I'm gonna feel.
I'm gonna, yeah. So from that level, like you can go to Philadelphia, I can go, I wanna go to tour of Old Philadelphia, do a walking tour. Or I can go and see a game or something, but, uh, you'll jump into a big bus tour or something. Exactly, yeah. So I'm not, I'm probably not doing a lot before the actual event, but as you're at the event, you definitely want participate in experience.
You're not gonna be there for a day, you're not gonna fly in, as I say, the day before and, and yeah. Go to the event and then fly out the day after, or that, that day. Yeah. So most of them start in the morning, early morning starts. So you, you have. An opportunity to go get a big meal afterwards. Right. And then have some type of excursion if you feel so good.
Yeah. Afterwards and otherwise you are there for the weekend. I would say the hotel or destination or DMO Right. Is there out there, wants to be able to curate Right. An experience to the consumer as they are going to these destinations. That would be ideal for me because then it's all really just set up for you.
Yeah. Just to, on a silver platter. Here is what you can do. Here's an option A, B, or C. Take it and check and go and it go all the way on an app. Just hypotheticals here is, I think it's interesting to marry your marathon running experience with some, your professional experience. I, I talk to a festival promoter and I said to him, one of the things that always comes up in these conversations, especially when you're talking about entertainment providers, is there's a metric that is always followed.
Especially I used to work for this, the biggest company. In that realm, it's called vibes. Like how do you create the vibes at that particular event? I would argue that there is a certain vibe of positivity, encouragement in that community when you're running the marathon. Mm-hmm. When I, when I posed the question to this one promoter, he goes, but I know where it starts.
And his story was, it starts with the artwork. It starts with the initial impression because if you don't like the artwork, you're not gonna click through. You're not gonna buy a ticket, you're not gonna be there. Now, these are institutions we're talking about in terms of marathons, but I guess from a visual communication perspective, as a runner yourself, if you were consulting a brand on how to appeal to runners who are going to these things, what are sort of those elements that.
You would think of that would say, Hey, that's gonna convert faster. Mm-hmm. Rather than just putting up a logo and a sign and that's it. What are some of those elements that you think would appeal to that community in particular as you going on that journey of running in the marathon? Gatorade does great, right?
Sure. It's there throughout the course, right? Biofreeze is another one, right? Or, yep, some. Some of these companies help for ear muscle relaxation. But I look at how I can interact with that brand and like most brands are trying to get in front of the consumer. There's a big opportunity here based on the size of the event.
So you have, what we're talking about is like sponsorship and activation. Mm-hmm. Which then halos this effect because if you like. The artwork, the activation itself, you're gonna put that on social media. Mm-hmm. You're gonna tag friends in it. You're gonna take photos of friends, you're gonna tag them. And so you got this halo effect of different things that it's really hard to quantify Yeah.
To, to a brand. But that's what I'm getting at is like, what are those elements that really, and you said it actually, you're like, you wanna be able to be a part of it, to experience it to a certain degree. Yeah. I think a lot of it is like. Touch and feel. And so when you're social media and you're out there and you're running and people are using their phones and taking selfies on their whole marathon journey, and it is a journey, and then you gotta look at it like that way the consumer, the, like me as a, as a runner, right?
I would go to these events, I would survey the scene and see the crowds and the experience and take it all in as you're running. I don't run with any headphones. Ah, interesting. Yep. I take it all in to some of these events that you go to, especially like New York, Chicago, like they have bands throughout the whole event and they line the course, so they, you, that motivation, the energy is always there.
So when I look at economic, the brands, what they can actually do for me it's more like, again, what you get in is what you get out, right? So. You have to try it, taste it, feel it in that experience. Yeah. Because again, you're not gonna put something that's gonna have an impact on your training. Compromise the training.
Exactly. Correct. Try not compromise of your training, nor of the event. You don't wanna all of a sudden take something in the middle of the, of, of the race and then you're, you know, feel so great. So, and you have another 13 miles to go. So you want to think about that. And I think. More of that is pre-event.
During the event, you're totally zone locked, right? And so then it's like pre-post on that. You're not gonna think about what else I could have eaten or other gels I could have taken, or energy supplements that I could have done. I. Nor most of it's done in training because it's, I'm gonna take a gel at mile six or take a gel 10.
So it's a kind of like, it is known in your mind. Okay. I'm feeling a little sluggish at this time. During my training, I'm gonna actually take a. Energy gel, that's gonna help me get a little boost. Right? So there's a cadence of that as you're actually thinking about. So when brands like Thera Gun or others like Yes can be involved in it, it definitely should be a meetup into, to the event.
And then like a recovery, right? Those Thera. Gun and Hyper Ice is another one. Like, but I would even argue the hotel. Oh, at the hotel, definitely. Right? Like the hotel, they make a mini one. Right. So some of these things like. It's just a, just an idea to those people out there, right. Of a rag gun or high price, right?
They do make a mini gun, right? A mini massage gun. Right. It could be an opportunity to have that as a trial, right? At these hotels that could be in close proximity. There's no doubt they're at the expo. But not everybody's gonna stay at the expo for six or eight hours. Right. So there's a line, there's thousands of people that are there.
So great opportunity. Yes. To your point, would be at the hotel that they could use. Another thing is, again, I. It could be nutritional, right? Yep. So if you think about what they can eat beforehand, and then clothing. So think about that from that lens. Most people are unsure of what to wear depending on when they go, right?
So New York could be very cold or it could be very warm, depending on, or raining or green, right? Like, like this. Yes. Uh, today, so I ran Chicago with 72 degrees. Oh, beautiful. So that, but that's hot. Yeah. And you think about, running is usually in the fifties, fifties or sixties, right? Yeah. So you have to make sure you're drinking enough fluid that you don't get dehydrated.
Right. You have to have enough and, but you don't wanna over hydrate. Right. So then, and it could have the inverse effect on it, but I ran also New York one year. It was 30 degrees with a 30 mile per wind, and another year it was 50 degrees. It completely depends. And then a couple years ago, I think it was.
Close to 70 degrees and it was very humid. Yeah. It really remember. Yeah. And so you're saying that the clothing brands, for example, could have an opportunity to weather whatever weather it is Yeah. To have an impact on, on that runner by providing something. Is that. At the hotel level. Yeah. ARAG Gun could basically do a deal with all Marriotts or any hotel.
Literally have them in the rooms and then just like taking something out of the mini bar. If it's missing, we're gonna charge you for it kind of thing. Or there's a certain give giveaway that's associated to it. I was more thinking one of the key elements of marketing a hotel is comfort. And that when you said recovery, I was like, oh, that's Starwood heavenly bed back in the day, right?
Where they were just marketing that mattress as being the most comfortable mattress, which by the way was really comfortable. Very nice. Yeah, we've stayed on those before. So what I was thinking was more the hotel themselves marketing, Hey, I am, you're at Marriott. Hilton Hyatt, and we are a comfortable brand for recovery.
So whenever you're thinking about strenuous activity or. Being competitive, this is the place to stay. I'll give you another example of that, right? In terms of get my mind going as well. Think about recovery shoes, right? So you wear Crocs, you wear UFOs and these, they both have kids and they play basketball so that everybody I think, shows up in their Crocs or Oh yeah, right?
So, but it is. An awesome feel, right? It feels like an egg crate on your feet after you are in 26 miles. So thinking about that of recovery shoes, anything from a recovery afterwards, you sleep in a great bed, right? Your feet and body feel. Fantastic. You're wearing nice, comfy clothes, right? All of that feels like the experience that you're getting, and to your point, relating to one of these establishments, right?
They wanna service you, they wanna provide you with the experience, and they want you to come back. So like how can they do that? And I think to your point, I don't think they're doing a great, good enough job in connecting that runner as they are at the establishment versus just tailoring who they are as a brand.
They're gonna look at it as a general consumer. I. Than the actual individual of a marathon. Yeah. But how anybody with two legs is your target audience, right? Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, if they're not, if they're not part of in, not in the running community, like my wife kids went with me to Philly and my wife want me to be in Chicago, but like you have other.
People who are not running in the event supporting the supportive team right there, you have another market, right, that these hotels and air airlines should be targeting, not just the marathon runner who is there, right? There is a lot from that. I think it is endless in terms of where you're looking at it from, who we can reach from a brand perspective there.
There are many. Yeah. And this is why it seems obvious as professionals in this world of online travel, media, all these different things, but you don't see them. And that's what I'm getting at, is that you've been to five of these. You're an avid runner. There's probably a finite amount of brands mm-hmm.
Who are targeted towards you. Mm-hmm. But was it ever Hyatt? Was it actually Neil? After, when you're thinking about running, finishing this marathon. All you wanna do is get to your Hyatt hotel room and sleep and just rest and recover. I don't think that's true. That's why I brought it up is I feel like there's a missed opportunity where maybe they just pay me a a million dollars to consult them on how that happens.
But there's these kind of micro marks. 'cause I believe that's what's happening now, especially in the age of social media, these various events. People are looking at these micro audiences, which effectively are much. Bigger, but you have, you're essentially a super fan of running. Yeah, I agree with you with that.
Yeah. Yeah. I think these hotels and airlines and the travel industry just in general, I don't think they're marketing to the runner. I don't think they see it as the audience, and I think more because. It's a finite window, so it's like I only have a couple days or so to reach them and not, tumor's not really coming in so far in advance.
It's not like I'm going on taking a personal trip and I'm going on a vacation to Europe or wherever so I can, I actually have. This is a planned trip. When you're gonna do a marathon, you're planning to actually do it right? Yeah. So it's months in advance of when you actually can market it. And I think to your point, the hotels might be saying, oh, your stay is coming up.
And usually you get either a reminder to check in, but when you're checking in, how is that customized to, you? Think of Nike, right? They have a running program. How many times have you been on a business trip and you get a run in. Would that be a determining factor? As a runner, you've got a QBR presentation somewhere in Texas, and it's one brand versus another that's in proximity, and the one that caters to the runner and says, Hey, you know what?
We have ARAG guns for your run. As part of the amenities, would that actually make you choose that hotel over another one? That's a good question. There's social running, as you said. Yeah. The brands of, of the Nikes, of the world are tailored to, not to the athletes that are out there, but the everyday consumer.
And then you, you said there's a business traveler and there's a leisure traveler, right? Mm-hmm. We're not targeting, we're not. Focusing on all facet to that. 'cause it's a lifestyle. Yeah. It's not so much event based the, the Super Bowls of, of a particular culture, but like you run every day, Neil. Yep. And that's where I think travel, entertainment, those guys don't cater even if you're going to a music festival for example.
Right. But if you're an avid runner or you're trying to be health conscious, it would be nice to know that there's an opportunity to run the track. Yeah. Yeah. Before, before the show or. Close to your hotel or maybe there's a partnership with something. And I think because they think of it as event base, it's not what Nike does as they're looking at the culture of running, they're looking at the lifestyle that's out there.
Yeah. And I think you have all these apps and watch apps. That are there. The, the Garmin, the Nikes, like they have all their apps and all, all tied to their watches, and they can give you a map of where you're running, how long you're running, and anaerobic respiration. Aerobic respiration in terms of the gauges are there.
And the reason I stayed all this is that all of that is, should be tied back to the hotel, can then offer you something as you come back. So a lot of it's like the, what they don't do is they don't. Geofence the consumer. Mm-hmm. Right. And looking at it as just from a leisure perspective, like you went out and you went out for a run around your area.
Mm-hmm. And you're thinking about, okay, here's a great ad right, that you could use, or this is something that's gonna be refreshing right now to drink. Right. In thinking about, I just came back from my run. How do I hydrate myself? What do I need to eat? What do I need? It was raining. It's gonna rain tomorrow.
Okay. Maybe I need something layers to actually go and buy it. Can I go into the local retailer down the street to actually buy it? And maybe they actually, the hotel can give you that type of messaging. But I think a lot of it has to do with who the customer profiles, the consumer, right? That's there. And hotels have that information, right?
Mm-hmm. They, they have all that. Inside of, in terms of who you are and how you book and when you book and et cetera. So they should be able to tailor at least more of the experience or prior to the, similar to the event itself, the marathon itself, they could be asking these type of questions prior to check-in.
Yeah. Doesn't have to be for the marathon. Just could you be in, are you a runner? Are you, do you need to utilize the gym? Do you need these type of things Where then it, it just gathers more data. Yeah. And I think that the sharing experience that you have with somebody registers for it. And understanding who that consumer is, what about them, the kind of choices that they're making as they're thinking about, Hey, here's some options.
And most of these organizations do give you options of hotels that are close to, to, to the start and finish line, but they don't, they, and they give you discounts in terms of what it is, but they don't give you no rhyme or reason why. So these are just partners of the actual organization versus the ones you're talking about.
Or an opportunity there. It could be like, okay, activity wise, like what, what can we do? What can we provide to, can the consumer. In their room as they are check as they are leading up to actually their, their trip could be even something that they send to them via email, right? Yep. To them. So how do you market that consumer and pre post transaction?
And that's our days of Expedia. Looking at it from that lens. Yes, you got the person who's gonna buy the hotel room. When I worked there, it was more about how do I connect to that consumer as they actually book their trip, right? I wanna be able to offer them. Here's the, here's a, if I need something, here's the pharmacy down the street, or here's something that I might need.
Maybe I need Advil, maybe I need a leave or something like that, right? So all that I can be part of the, I keep coming back to experience, but it is an experience that I don't think hotel. Thes are doing great right now. Um, or just travel brands in general? Like I, that, that's what I was trying to get at.
No, every time I hang out with you, Neils like I learned a little bit of something and I think that there's an opportunity to educate brands in general, but even from a local level, right? Like that local restaurant or that attraction, they should be finding different ways to cater to a runner because it's not just about the event, it's the lifestyle, it's the culture of it, and it's gonna.
It could be a determining factor on that business or leisure trip if you're going back to that city as to how to, to market to them. So that's where I was getting at. There are a lot of sports that people can play and participate in. Like the easiest thing is you somebody to go out and start to go for a run.
So just run. So it's one of the healthiest ways of exercise. How do you then ca cater to that individual from a, from an experience that they're going at the event or leading up to the event that's gonna make their experience even better? 'cause to your point, like most of these hotels or. If they have a good, I like to say if you had a good first date, they'll come back and have a better second date.
So like how do you get the consumer to come back in once they've had that experience, whether it's in a different city, right? Yeah. So if I stayed at my Marriott in X or stayed at my Hyatt or Hilton right in X location, how then that's going to make me feel good about them and their experience. And they always ask surveys about it, right?
Yeah. So they're like, okay, and then I'm gonna come back the next time around to go. Have that same experience at a different location, whether it's for business or leisure. Right? Yeah. That they're going to, yeah. So they should be treating the, and it is really hard to execute on this, and it's easier said than done.
Sure. The New York City Marathon is really just a tent pull to hopefully market this halo effect. If I am Hyatt Hotels and I do a really good campaign on that guy who ran, or his family members who ran, are gonna go to another Hyatt, uh, or another destination where there's a Hyatt gonna be like, Hey, they cater to runners.
I agree with you. Like if you walk into the hotel and you get a welcome kit and that is all tailored to, oh, these guys make me feel very, the community. Yeah. Of the running community, you are gonna go back to them every single time you have. Looking at different races throughout the whole world of, of the country, most of these are global brands.
Most of them are able to attract to, to the consumer. Uh. In any of these destinations. Yeah. So I think for me as a runner, if I saw it, like what if somebody gave me exactly like what I needed? Yeah. I'm gonna come back. Always be. Yeah. Marathon or not. Yeah, exactly. I. As a consumer, like the goal is conversion, right?
As you stated, right? Hotels need to get people in the beds, right? The airlines need to get people in the seats. Why would I go book one versus the other, right? Because of the type of experience that I got and right, and tailoring it to me as a runner, right? I get there. Maybe it's a free massage, maybe it's something like that.
Like they offer, I, I just say it's something that's going to give me a spiff, right? That's going to lure me to come back. And then as you say, whether you're there with your family or yourself, I. You feel good, right? So mm-hmm. Once you've gone through that whole process and you're all done, then you might be tired the next day, but you then had that whole accomplishment.
Right. And then they're tailoring you to, to what your needs are. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. It makes you feel good. No, I just, and also that it ties it back into the emotion of that accomplishment and in and associated with the brand and the recovery and all these things. I think they think of it. And a vacuum of, oh, that's just Marathon weekend.
I think you're right. I think there's some marathons that are like 4,000 people, right? So like, how do I reach them? How do I reach the masses, right? That, that are there. And I, I think they, as I stated before, I think it's a moment in time that they're trying to. That they don't feel it's a huge need for them, I don't think is as impactful as it actually is.
Not just to the runner, but to the surrounding family, the friends, everybody. It's a trickle down effect. If I was able to give them what they wanted, I. And they give me what I wanted and able to curate to me of what I need. There's gonna be an interest for me to actually purchase products. So again, whether it's a CPG brand, whether it's a retail brand or retail retail establishment, I'm going to, whether it's a energy drink, whether it's clothing, et cetera.
I think all of that. Is front and center to the consumer, and it's gonna be a remembrance right. On that day, because you've then done the day, right? Everybody remembers their first marathon. Yeah. Everybody remembers the race that happened and what happened afterwards. What happened beforehand. Yep. So it's a core memory.
It's a core memory, which I will never have. I'll, I'm going to live vicariously through your core memories, Neil, but I thank you for putting your input as one A, a travel media sales professional at the leadership level, by the way, but also just as a runner, right? I think that's very important. So what do you think are, gimme your top three things.
If you're talking to a brand who wants to market to runners. What are the kind of the top three things you would encourage them to do or at least think about into their next campaign season? Yeah. Most of these brands do a, a ton of research right, on who the consumer and core individual is. I don't think, and especially in the, in, in the running community, I don't think they're, I.
Leveraging that area. I think that they gotta understand who is that consumer. There's a huge age bracket that could be anywhere from 18 years old to 60 plus. So it is a very broad demographic that you're reaching. So if you are reaching and looking at the masses, that is a huge opportunity for them. To partake in number two, right?
When I look at some of these hotel establishments, I would encourage those hotels, travel the travel industry to actually reach out to some of these brands during these events and be able to leverage their resources and be able to figure out a connection that the two of them can do in order to lure potential sales.
For these brands. And then three, I think they should get more involved in the running community. Just in general, like in terms of what I'm doing. Like I have my own Instagram account that's running a Silver Fox running USA police check me out. But in, in the industry, in terms of the community and trying to provide tips and encouragement to the whole running community, I think part of that is.
To look at the running community as a, an area, especially some of these brands to, to get involved in. I don't think they're doing a good enough job today. I, I would encourage them to lean into this particular target audience because they're, it is a very lucrative opportunity for them. Awesome. Thanks for coming to Tickets to Travel.
I think you hit it right on the head that. If you need to learn more about the running community and if you're a brand who's interested, we'll check it out on Silver Fox Running. Thank you again, Neil for coming in. Alright folks, and that's a wrap on this leg of the journey. I. Big thanks to Neil Sheridan for running with us all day.
Figuratively and literally. From media sales to marathon medals. Neil gave us a full course view of what it means to be a traveler with purpose, and how planning around a marathon can be just as important as the race itself. For destinations at dmo, the message is clear. If you're hosting a marathon, you're not just organizing a race, you're curating a citywide experience.
And that experience starts long before the starting gun. From hotel proximity to local restaurant partnerships, to personalized recovery amenities, the opportunity to connect with runners and their support crews is massive and largely untapped to marathoners, especially those thinking about their first big run.
Take Neil's advice, train hard, plan smart, and treat the travel like part of the journey. From the expo energy to the post-race, rest, every detail matters, and yeah, you will be sore. So pack the crs. And for brands, the runner isn't just a niche audience, it's a lifestyle market. These folks are committed, passionate, and travel ready.
From compression gear to comfy beds, electrolytes to hotel activations. There's so much room for creative engagement. Just don't wait until the race day. You can follow Neil's running and recovery journey at at Silver Fox Running USA on Instagram. Give him a shout or maybe a gel pack because whether you're in it for the glory, the cause, or the challenge.
It is clear. The marathon is more than a moment. It's a movement. I'm Mario DeWine and this has been Tickets to Travel, the Business of Travel Experiences. Until next time, keep moving, keep planning, and as always, I. We'll see you at the finish line. Attention travel and ticketing innovators. Whether you're a startup disrupting the industry, or an established company ready to take your distribution strategy to the next level.
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