Welcome to Tickets to Travel, the business of travel experiences. I'm your host Mario Bedouin and today we have Tomas from Hello Tickets. Tomas, thank you for coming to the pod. Hey, thank you for having me, Mario. I'm very excited being here. Awesome. Awesome. No, I'm excited to have you as well. Tomas's Career Journey Tomas's Career Journey I looked over your career and what you currently do and I had to ask you one question.
When was the first time you sold a ticket? The first time I sold a ticket was in the summer of 2012. Really? When I just, yeah a bit late actually. But it was when I joined my first ticketing company that was called Ticket Beast. It was a small Spanish startup. I was coming from banking and I made a major shift in my career.
You were a banker and you decided to sell tickets? How did that happen? Yeah. I guess I was working on private banking. Okay. I used to work I used to work previously on a broker exchange as well. As an exchange broker. Then I just saw what the startups were that, The boss about the, about these 2012 was us or the, these big financial crisis in both the U S in Europe.
I was turning 30 years old. So I was like, Oh, perhaps this is not what I want to do the rest of my life. And that's how I got into ticketing. And that's what the moment when I first saw my ticket, it was August, 2012. And what was the event? That you sold it for? Yeah, it was a real Madrid Barcelona match.
Oh, okay. That's a pretty good one to start off with. It reminds me of the conversation I had with our friend John Allen, where I asked him the first time he sold a ticket and it was like literally when he was in, in school, like he was a child when he did it. And yeah I listened to that episode and my story's not as romantic as he's.
Mine was when I was 30 years old already. No, but I feel like you must be a fan. You must be a fan of Real Madrid and or Barcelona, right? Yeah. I'm a Barcelona supporter. Yeah. Ah, I see. I see. So that was probably a little bit of a, an interesting piece because you were able to get into the game at some point
yeah, it was exciting because when you are outside of these, you think you will never get into a red Madrid game or went to our New York Yankees games. You think it's impossible so suddenly when you are inside this industry, you see that of course it's possible and it's a work to make it possible to the rest of the people that is outside of this industry.
So yeah it was, I listened to John Allen's episode and it was very exciting and I think because of that excitement is because I keep working in this industry. Amazing. Yeah, no, same for me, right? Like I, I started out being a online travel guy and then moved into being such a lover of music and sports.
Like I was always curious about how ticketing worked. Because there are some similarities between travel and ticketing, but for some reason they don't play well together they're not really merged. And so that's the inspiration for bringing some awareness between the two industries.
So a lot of times when I talk to people, I say, Hey I'm trying to educate ticketing and entertainment people about travel and vice versa. You've had a, an amazing career in this, and obviously you have a love for sports and entertainment.
Ticketing Industry Insights Ticketing Industry Insights What seems to be and you have a unique background in that you've been in Europe the majority of your career, what are some of the things you've seen in terms of the ticketing world and how maybe it relates to the U.
S. Ticketing world from a live events perspective? Because obviously, we've seen a big shift in demand post covid. Obviously, you guys are seeing the same thing. But what are some of the unique things about your markets that you think people should know? Mhm. It's a good and complex question. The first thing I want to say is I guess the U. Comparing US and European Ticketing Comparing US and European Ticketing
S. is 10 years ahead of Europe in terms of ticketing. And I think it's because of the regulation or flexibility of regulations you guys have in the U. S. We are still struggling in Europe. Explaining to right holders what secondary ticketing is which means of course you can make money selling a Real Madrid Barcelona match, but realizing that out of 19 home games a team has in La Liga or EPL, you will probably make money out of four or five.
The rest of them, you're going to be selling them below face value. And those tickets are going to be selling below face value probably. are being acquired by Mario coming from Connecticut. And he's in Madrid that weekend, and he wants to attend whatever match, even if it's Real Madrid or Atletico Madrid playing at home.
In the same way that happens to me if I go to New York. Yep. I'd rather see the Knicks, but either Brooklyn Nets or in town, I will go happily there too as well. So explaining all these words to you on that face, it's getting better from the right holder's point of view. They want to monetize these. They want to get more foreign users into the stadium.
They want to increase the willingness to pay of the users they have in the stadium. And of course we're helping that. So that's the first point. The second point is The number of events. In terms of concerts, there are similarities, of course, especially the European summer is amazing. You can see here in the Bernabeu in Madrid, there was one week Taylor Swift.
The other week was Ketel G, each of them with four or five concerts in a row. So we are in that level. But in terms of sporting events, it's like in the U. S. you have MLB, then suddenly you have NBA, then suddenly you have NHL, then MLS after Messi is a major thing as well. Of course. So then, and then they have, very domestic things as they call it, but you have March Madness, you have college football.
The number and the cadence of sporting events is just unbeatable. Wow. I didn't really think about it that way, but you're right. There's always a live event. I always said that sports in particular are the easiest from a business standpoint, because I see it very similar to travel.
Right, Tomas? It's you've got seasons, you've got the football season, so you have to prep for that into the spring. Then you've got baseball through the summer. Basketball covers everything and then you have hockey and of course you mentioned March Madness as well. So that's true.
I think you're even saying that from a content perspective, Europe is still developing the leagues and the games and the different things to fill in the gaps. Yeah. Or perhaps many people will say, no, there are many, you have handball tournaments or yeah, of course you have many sports as well, but how many of them are competitive in terms of ticketing or competitive in terms of having a full attendance to their stadiums.
So the local basketball league here in Spain. This the second best in the world. Just after NBA we have a massive tournament in Europe, which is called the Euro League. Yeah. Which is the top basketball team facing each other in a format very similar to the one you guys have with NCAA. But still the level of attendance I think is key.
I think it's the main difference. So the good thing is the football season or soccer season here in Europe. Last nine months from August to May. So of course you have a long season, as you said, as you were saying earlier to plan ahead. That's very similar to the travel industry, but yeah, again, the number of events, the number of leaks with attention or perspective of having a full attendance in the stadium.
Yeah. It's different. Along those lines when the comparisons come up, when I'm trying to explain to a travel person how ticketing works, I liken it to a hotel and an arena because they're both have different rooms or seats and there's perishable inventory. Challenges and Opportunities in Ticketing Challenges and Opportunities in Ticketing
So the the ticketing system, the primary ticketing system, and the property management system on the hotel side are equals. But that, that also speaks to the rights holders as well. And so you brought up a really good point earlier that I wanted to dig into a little bit is that there's, it feels and maybe I'm wrong, but it feels like there's a little bit of an imbalance between generational fans for, let's say, Barcelona, where they're passing down seat licenses and such.
And then you have people like me who are coming into as a tourist, see a game. And I'm curious as to what that percentage is. But also, how did the rights holders feel? Obviously, they all like money. They all like they want to sell the ticket. But at the same time, you have to balance sort of the purity of the fans.
Because when people say, Hey, I played soccer all my life and they say, Who do you support? I say, I'm an arsenal supporter. But I know that's a dangerous thing to say, because it's so passionate in the UK about what that team does, that it almost discounts my being a fan in a lot of ways as an American.
And so do the rights holders try to it. You balance that percentage of tourists versus season tickets or generations, or maybe if you could enlighten us in that, how does the seat licenses or the tickets work from a team perspective? Yeah, there is not a uniform answer to that, Marius. It's a bit complex, but I will say perhaps a quick summary is like Europe is more traditional.
In that sense. Ah. So the first difference that perhaps not many of your listeners know, it's like the football clubs in Europe, many are owned by private companies, private entities, especially in the EPL, in the English Premier League, such as Manchester City, Arsenal, Liverpool. Many of them have American investors like Chelsea, for instance, and many clubs in Italy and Spain and in Germany.
are actually clubs are like, if you are a member of a country club, that's why you were saying you have a membership and you can just pass it along to your daughter or to your son, but you cannot buy that membership. For instance, for the Madrid where Madrid is roughly a 90 K capacity stadium.
Okay. It's in the middle of the city, Madrid, all the metropolitan area. It's 5 million people. Okay. Just for bringing some perspective. You can be a member of Real Madrid, but perhaps you cannot buy a season ticket pass. Okay. Because there isn't, there are not enough for you. Wow. Okay. You can come here with all the money in the world and you can say, I'm going to be living in Madrid.
I want to buy a season ticket pass. Perhaps you won't be able to do it because you're not a member because even many members don't have it. And Real Madrid is not owned by anyone. They have a president, a chairman who was voted by the members, but he's not, he doesn't own the club. So there's a major difference.
It doesn't happen here in Europe that you have franchise and you move it from one city to the other. So I wanted to share this context because I think it's relevant in how the clubs address this. And the clubs are very concerned about their reaction from the season pass holders. Many of the football clubs or soccer clubs here in Europe.
80 percent of the capacity. This is just an average. Okay. It's already full, sold out to the CISO pass holders. What's the problem? The CISO pass holders They don't buy the scarf, they don't buy the cap, they don't buy the 5 euros beer or 10 euros beer, they bring their sandwich from home, but, if you will come here with your family, you will buy everything, you will buy the cap, the scarf, you will buy the 10 euros hamburger, whatever, because you want to and it happened the other way around. If I was in the U S it will happen the same way. So depending on the clubs is attention to these.
Yes. They want to bring more 14ers, but they don't want all the 14ers being the main attendance to the games or they want to be able to sell tickets. They're open to the secondary ticketing, but they don't want the visitors team filling up the stadium more than the home team. So they control all of that in terms of, so they control all of that.
Wow. So many clubs, not all, many clubs, they require from you where, when you're integrated for them as another distribution channel to require name, surname, date of birth and nationality. Of the people purchasing the tickets, which is, which can be intrusive. It's like, why? The reason why if they want to know Mario is not a Bayern Munich supporter, not because it's bad being a supporter of Bayern Munich.
It's just that you don't want to exceed the capacity from the away visitors. And they have arrangements between the club, which is regulated by the UEFA, which is the government body of football here in Europe, on the percentage of the stadium that should be allocated to away fans. So it's not like they're kicking away fans.
It's just they didn't want to limit that. And that has happened. It has occurred that one European game you will have more pitchers from the other country than the home team playing. So that's the kind of thing they want to avoid. And in the specific example you mentioned at the beginning with Arsenal London being London as it is very international.
London has close to seven EPL teams. In terms of Arsenal, they are open to foreigners. They just don't want the foreigners to be 50 percent of the stadium. You will go here to the stadium of Real Madrid and you will see the same person that He's my stadium friend, because I have been attending to the stadium 10 years next to this person so they said they made these kind of friendships there and hence the tradition.
It doesn't mean they're against the 49ers or the visitors coming no I'm, it's just a bit mind blowing to hear it. Cause that's like saying I'm a Niners fan, but we're going to limit the amount of Rams fans who comes to the, comes to this game, which is just like mind blowing because they're like, I'm going to take as many fans as possible to fill the stadium.
So you guys are a big piece of this in a lot of ways, because there's in the product itself, when you're selling the ticket you probably have to qualify people, right? If you're marketing to, let's say the U S market for people to come to that real Madrid game. There are certain precautions because I know that there's a packaging component as well for resale tickets in Europe.
So how do you guys approach that? Again, it goes depending on the clubs. There are clubs that are very open, there are clubs that there are clubs that are working the same way as American organizations will and they don't set any kind of restrictions for you to distribute the inventory.
But there are other clubs like will demand these. I think these data for security reasons, okay? And the other reason is perhaps, yeah, perhaps 50 percent of the brain wave can be of Americans visiting Madrid. That's okay. But perhaps they require you not to come dressing the colors of the waiting.
So if they are playing against Barcelona, they don't want you wearing the messy shirt or the Barcelona shirt. Okay. And those basically is information. That's basically disclaimer. And I think what we're very good at. It's a provided an information because again, our focus, we sell to the mystic audience as well, but mostly our focus is international travelers crosswalk, right?
It's your growth area. So we try to be very explicit in that kind of information, that kind of disclaimer, and especially try to be informative and not demanding because it's not something to be scared of. It's just, okay. Fan Travel Stories Fan Travel Stories Yeah, so I'm also starting this this segment that I call fan travel stories
the first one that will come out in a couple of weeks is a, as a guy who I've known for a long time and he was telling me about his trip to Liverpool. And he lives in Texas. And so in that case he didn't know how to buy the ticket. So he was able to get there, but he didn't know how to buy the ticket.
So he went to the Liverpool website and he ended up buying this package that was a dinner and two tickets, and he had to go to a pub. To pick up the tickets. And so he had the dinner and he was just like, is this legit? And does this make sense? And I told him, I said, that's actually the most legit thing because it's a real person's probably had those tickets for generations or in that establishment.
They own the pub or whatever it is. And you're literally getting it handed to you from the person who owns the ticket. Is that accurate? Or do you feel like, yeah, it could be accurate because it could be a create it could be a great the probably the pub has been there for 150 years and I'm Phil Liverpool stadium has been there for 120 years now.
The stadium is next to houses, it's just next to houses so yeah, that's probably true. That's probably one of the season pass holders was having a beer in the pub and it's a member of the club or they meet up there in the pub to to watch the games and that season ticket holder didn't want to attend that certain match. Yeah. That certainly could be the case. That's interesting. And obviously you guys at Hello Tickets have been doing this for a little while.
Future of Ticketing and Technology Future of Ticketing and Technology So you've collected probably a little bit of data on international travelers. I'm assuming that the U. S. market is a pretty big market for you. Are there certain things that you've noticed about how Americans purchase tickets in general?
And what are some of the things that you're thinking about developing around this to attract more to come across the pond? Yeah, U. S. Is, of course, a very important market for us. More in the terms of the events were selling tickets for them from the audience. Right now, of course, we target local audience in the U.
S. But it's not our core business. We have strong competitors, there are strong marketplaces there, and it's not our core business right now, but in terms of events for sure, but we're selling tickets for American coming to Europe to see, to watch events. And there are many differences.
Sometimes Americans are less sensitive to, to, to pricing which is as it's very different, it pushes in power. And the willingness to pay. Those are two very different things. And perhaps the willingness to pay in Americans is higher. So that's one point. Second point, they are less scared or worried of last minute purchasing.
And the other main difference Which comes related with a topic we were discussing 10 minutes ago in terms of regulation. Many secondary marketplaces have partnerships with the right holders in the U. S. At the same time, those right holders have a partnership or their ticket company is Ticketmaster, which is primary.
So normally you will see Ticketmaster. Facilitating or enabling these secondary marketplaces to integrate to be able to transfer the tickets. Yes. Why? Because they are both partnering with the source, which is the team. That doesn't happen here in Europe. We are not there yet. Interesting. Of course, mobile tickets is a big thing here as well.
And the same in the U. S. Paper tickets are almost disappearing here in the same way as the U. S. But you don't see this ticket transfer. As common as he has become in the U. S. And it's not a thing of tech, it's a thing of regulation. Enabling that tech to be open to secondary players.
That, seems to be the challenge with resellers and Ticketmaster is the transferring of the ticket because Yeah. I learned this from John as well is that if you are buying X amount of tickets for a price that you've negotiated, you own the ticket.
And so if the, for everyone who's listening is saying yes, if you own the ticket, so however you want to sell it is entirely up to you. Unless it comes through Ticketmaster and then Ticketmaster puts these parameters around who can actually transfer the ticket, which is a weird way to control things, especially when you own the ticket.
So to liken that down to a, you bought a 10 ticket to a festival and you wanted to make a little money and give it or give it away for free, you should have the right to do that. And I think that's what the resellers are getting at. Is that right? Yeah, that's totally right. And we come back to the topic of the 10 years advantage in the U.
S. versus Europe. I know there are still issues with Ticketmaster because we both attend these kind, these type of conferences. But the first one I attended in the U. S. was in the summer of 2016. So almost nine years ago, it was a World Ticket Conference. It was in Vegas. I was working for Subhub back then.
Ah, I've heard of that. I was managing. I was, yeah, I was managing. I was managing. Partnerships for self help in Europe. So for us, what's great because we saw many ticket brokers or secondary marketplaces in the same conference in a panel arguing lively with Ticketmaster Executive, right?
But the first thing is Ticketmaster Executive were present at that conference. So for us, that was mind blowing. And then the second thing is having those live discussions of this. I will say right now, we are not there yet. That's why the 9 10 years difference, and nowadays, when I attend these conferences in the U.
S. Yeah, there are still these issues you're mentioning about, but again, Ticketmaster executives are there or Ticketmaster, if they are partnered with certain club and their club or that team, have a partnership with BBTs, let's say, of course, they enable that they collaborate together. So we don't have that here yet.
We have a willingness from the football clubs or from the music promoters to allow secondary. But to allow secondary, always try to apply price cap or trying to apply limitation, which is okay. We have been for many years trying to get some regulations because sometimes having a regulation and being allowed to do certain things is better than being in a gray area.
Yes. But we are still don't have the same kind of collaboration and report or intent to collaborate. You guys have in the U. S. Yeah, I could see where that could be. Actually, it's beneficial for you in particular Tomás? Because you understand both sides. So you're literally 10 years ahead of how you can affect the markets in Europe do you have certain strategies or just thoughts around how you can maybe speed up that 10 year gap? Or is it just a matter of, let's say AI and technology taking hold of the industry there? Fortunately, it's not just myself. There are many of us, there are many colleagues of mine.
I'm currently at Hello Tickets and Sapa before. We still are in keep in touch it's a small industry, we know each other. Navigating Club Collaborations and Challenges Navigating Club Collaborations and Challenges
So we, even though we are in different companies, we try to work together towards that. I don't have the strategy, but I have the experience of the Damage I got previously I got my door slammed on my face for many football clubs saying they will never work with a softball or any secondary platform, right?
Only for one year later, then calling me back to have a meeting with them and again, this was not a money issue. It's a money issue from our side. It was them allowing that they can fulfill the expectation from the generational traditional legacy. season ticket holders while providing some supply for those international travelers or domestic audience trying to get to the match
understanding that having an empty seat is a worse situation at all. Even the leagues got involved. We don't want empty stadiums. Showing on tv. Sure. It's bad business, of course. Maximizing Stadium Utilization Maximizing Stadium Utilization And of course the clubs have mo moved towards a more operational mode in which they need to maximize the stadium.
How you maximize the stadium selling beverage with hospitality packages. Yeah. Keeping activity every time considering a soccer season is very similar to the NFL season A soccer season have. 19 La Liga games, right? If you are a top performer team, like Real Madrid or Barcelona plays Champions League, et cetera, you can play up to 25, that's it.
And hence they are open and they have modified the stadium. They have refurbished their stadium to be able to offer concerts because of this monetization intent. Okay. So all these explainings come that the main experience I got, Mario is like. We have to keep these conversations with the clubs.
Sometimes we were hidden. It's like we are doing everything legal. There's no regulation against it. It's just that we don't, we are not favored by the right holders. And many times we were comfortable being on the side, like not making too much noise. I think perhaps it was accurate in years ago, but right now we need to keep the conversations open with them. Even if we don't have a deal with them, we need to keep the conversation open with them.
The Importance of Data in Ticketing The Importance of Data in Ticketing We need to be able to share the data. Not any of the clubs here in Europe, even massive clubs like Man United, Real Madrid which are corporations as big as the Yankees or as big as the Lakers.
They don't have all the data or of. who are coming to the stadium from abroad, they assume they assume Brazilians are traveling to Spain, right? Yeah, for sure. They assume that, but they don't have it. So if we can leverage the kind of information we have gotten from all the track record for all the big data we have from these years.
I think that's a gate opener and I think that's changing, but the change has been, to be honest, a bit slower than I would have liked for it. This actually hits the crux of why we're talking today, right? It's because you hit on something that I think is very important is that the origination data of the fan who's purchasing is not readily integrated.
Into ticketing systems slash travel people will find various ways to purchase the ticket because it's not integrated into a travel platform right now. But I think that's changing as well. I think there are now certain large O. T. A. S. There's certain other travel industry companies who are looking at one.
We're going to take all the flight data. And be able to merge that with whether it's a direct relationship or a wholesale relationship with a resale ticket and make sure that they can report on that. So now you would have a Brazil fan going to Real Madrid and understanding their entire journey.
And then the travel industry or the online travel industry, they're calling that the connected trip and there's all these initiatives against it. And so one of the things I get really passionate about is that. Travel and Live Events: A Symbiotic Relationship Travel and Live Events: A Symbiotic Relationship Because of the way travel has shifted, the live events that you sell Tomas is what drives a huge percentage of the travel.
Now it used to be, I'm going to Paris because it's Paris and we're going to have a vacation there more and more now, especially when we look at younger demographics, it's about, I want to go see PSG. I want to go see my favorite players and I'm going to do a vacation around it. And so that's the inspiration for a lot of what we talked about here.
And I think you're right, because when it, when you look at everything, when you really break it down, it's about the data and how to monetize the data. And right now, these type of systems don't really play together and it's even more fragmented on the. Ticketing side, because of that primary versus reseller relationship where they've found partnerships for both at the rights holder level, because to your earlier point, even if it's a horrible game like two bad teams playing each other, you still need the arena to be filled, you still need to sell those, and so I think there's going to be a shift here, in the near future where A primary ticketing system will understand that and have better like relationships with resellers because they do serve a purpose because no one can sell out a hundred thousand seat stadium every single game.
Yeah there are many interesting things there, Mario. First of all, I don't know if it was John Allen or another relevant person as such who told me that it was in the U. S. Resetters exist because they are better at pricing which is true, pricing doesn't mean always above face value.
Many times, as I was mentioning earlier, it's below face value, right? And about the data, it's not only having the data, but executing and investing against that data. It means we are pushing marketing campaigns in those markets, right? The organizations are not. Not organization here. Just an example is not driving campaign for the East Coast of the U.
S. because it's President's Day or Labor Day or Thanksgiving in November. No, we're trying to do that kind of things. Yep. Not, no club in Europe is targeting Mexico on September 15, because of their independence day in Mexico. No, we're trying to do that kind of things, which is open information.
If you go to the world, World Tourism Organization data to, to have all those friends, the thing is how you were saying how to connect those travel trends on those travel corridors with events. Yes. And that's basically our daily work. That's what we're doing. We haven't set everything up where we are in that path.
And you were saying also earlier, like many clubs here in Europe, they open at first of offering tickets only if you were bundling these up with hotels or with an hour or with dinner before match or with flight, which is intelligent. There's a demand for that. Many people want everything done. But there are many people that want, like your friend, they want to go to Liverpool, get lost in a pub, find a ticket and find an Airbnb, whatever they want.
That's okay as well. And finally, they are opening and to distributing, to letting you distributing all of the tickets. They are applying certain conditions. There are other conditions that are related with ops and with security, as we were discussing before with these names and such. But it has gotten better, especially after COVID.
Yeah. And the before and after Covid was key. I think before Covid and I guess what's similar in the US organizations, were very happy with the TB rights ah and of course no one saw this black swan and all of us who have worked in ticketing or travel, we got scared.
There is during this year and a half yes. For obvious reasons. Okay. And I think after that they have they have doubled down on this need of. Monetizing the stadium and opening to new revenue streams. And I think that's why they are not wanting to do this. Yeah, if I owned a team if a wholesaler or a reseller came to me and said, here, I want to take 5 percent of your inventory for the entire year and here's what it is, I wouldn't care what it yes, I would take that money.
And then of course you have a partnership on the primary side, but effectively the primary is taking direction from the rights holder to be able to distribute these tickets so that's where I think people get mixed up in that. Ticketmaster is a marketplace, but they're also a primary system.
And they're actually issue for me they are the whole supply chain. Yeah. They all supply chain. They're live nation. They have venues, which is great. They are ticket company, they are promoters as well yep. They manage all the different verticals of the industry. About, about the right holders, and you were saying if you own a team, the thing here is like. Fan Loyalty and Club Management Fan Loyalty and Club Management
Every member, every season ticket holder of a team feels like the club is theirs. I'm not saying in the U. S. it's not the same. When you see the Green Bay Packers fans, it's amazing. They're all there with a goal.
And of course they feel their team is theirs as well, for sure. But here it's like they're entitled to it. I will share with you a quick example, which is a public information, of course. In Madrid, which is a magnificent city you have Real Madrid, but you also have Atlético de Madrid, which is a very successful team as well.
They have, they had an old stadium close to the river in the middle of Madrid. And roughly 10 years ago, they decided to build a new stadium. close to the airport. So very similar to the American model I take the stadium out of the downtown magnificent stadium, and people were against that.
And even though Atlético Madrid is owned by private company but it's my club it's like, why are you doing this? Finally, they understood they are very happy with the stadium. They have the best subway station in all Europe next to the stadium looks like an airport. Very easy to go to, very comfortable.
They have their harmonization piece because they are a venue for major concerts as well. Sure. But then, at that moment, they also decided to change the crest of the club. Oh. Oh, that sounds like a no. And you will say, Thomas, that happens here every ten years that's true. NBA clubs or, okay.
And they say, okay. I think the most similar position I will find is like when you compare with Boston Red Sox and the Yankees, you haven't seen the uniform hasn't changed the Yankees changed the stadium one block away that kind of thing. You still have Fenway Stadium. It's that kind of thing.
And finally they changed the crest stayed in place for six years. The audience, the supporters never stopped complaining. Every game, they were chanting, I don't want the crest, I don't want the crest. What do you think happened this last summer? They went back to the previous crest.
They went back to the old Coke, the Coke classic. Yeah. Amazing. It's a great example because it's a very romantic one. How much people they didn't surrender, that was important for them. Yeah. But it's also why the management of the club, it's not like they don't have a money appetite or they don't want to, they don't want to monetize in a better way.
Yeah. It's because they are very concerned about the reaction from their families. The fanaticism the passion is on another level. And that's what, when I traveled throughout Europe, like I noticed it big time, whether I was in London I felt it more in Italy. And if I was wearing a Barcelona jersey in Italy I got bad looks people are like, what or I remember one time I had gone to Venice and I just picked up their local Jersey.
And then I went to different where I think I went back to Rome and I got the dirtiest looks and I was like, you know what? I probably shouldn't be wearing this. It's just a different level of fandom where here in the U S. If I'm wearing a Niner jersey into New York, it's not a big deal.
People are, Hey, high fives or whatever it might be. But really in Europe it's a different level of fandom. And I think that really is the source of the business, right? And how those decisions are made to sell tickets or fill the arena or to change the crest or the logo of a particular team.
That's true. I want to emphasize that it's very safe. Probably you probably they, you will have a bad look if you go to the Bernabeu city in Madrid with a person on a shirt. I have done that. Yeah. They yell at me a couple of things. Oh, but there's no more than that. This is 20 years ago, man.
When I went, that's how I felt. Yeah. No more than that. It's perfect. But yeah just take into consideration, like many of these clubs are 125 years old. At the beginning many of these clubs were founded by the Workers Club or this is the Iron Workers Club.
That was the beginning of many of these clubs. Of course, that's not the reality anymore, but it involves many social things as well. Totally. And I think that's why the fanaticism could be, yeah, higher. It's a different, I would, we agree it's a different level. Super Bowl and International Sports Events Super Bowl and International Sports Events Switching gears, we're here, it's Super Bowl week in the U.
S. How are your Super Bowl ticket sales going? Are you, is there, are you seeing this as a, from a European perspective, a different game? Or are ticket sales bigger, better? I don't know what your relationship is with that particular game, but what are your thoughts around that? We are strong sellers of hockey in the same way we are strong sellers of baseball, even though those are not traditional sports here in Europe you will find many Europeans traveling to New York and see the Yankees because of the experience, even if they don't understand the game and they will never understand the game and something similar could happen to NFL it's a good show.
America's not know how to put a good show and that happens with NFL with NBA, of course, amazing. And basketball is a very popular sport here as well. Yeah. NFL is not our strong performer but basically because of the seasonality we have sold tickets for the Super Bowl, but it's not a strong performer for us perhaps the NBA finals will be a higher performer for us, or perhaps the Formula One race in Miami will be a high performer for us, or a Real Madrid Barcelona here but it's not because of lack of interest of, because of the sport it's not that, basically it relies more with the seasonality.
It happens the same for us. We sell World Series tickets. We do. Yeah. But it's not a high performer because our kind of client. Doesn't care if the World Series is between the Dodgers and the Mets. They just care that if they are in L. A. and the Dodgers are playing, they want to go. They don't know who Ohtani is and why he's a good pitcher and he can bat.
They don't get there. Yeah, they don't know the narrative, but they're there for the travel experience. Exactly. Okay? Yes. And of course, the average value for Super Bowl is very expensive. So one thing is being curious about a sport you don't know and you can pay some dollars.
Another thing is paying. Different case of dollars for the sport you don't know. And, but actually we have had better years when the venues have been, I don't know, in Miami, for instance, being in New Orleans, which is an amazing city, perhaps it's less well connected to Europe than other American cities. Got it. Got it. Excitement for the Upcoming World Cup Excitement for the Upcoming World Cup So you must be very excited about the world cup coming to the U S.
Yeah. We were very excited about that. And before going to that topic about NFL, I think how clever it is, what they are doing. They are doing NFL regular season games in Europe. They have been doing this in London for six, seven years now. And on these upcoming season these 25, they will have games in Munich and in Madrid, in the Bernabeu stadium.
So the Dolphins are going to, the Dolphins are going to be playing in Madrid. So many of my friends or. Parents from school. They know I work in these. Hey Thomas, are we gonna get tickets for the Dolphins? And I was like, you don't know where the Dolphins play we should they play so I Think it's because they're creating expectation so even if you are 30 years old European, you will never get the game You will definitely go there for the show so I just wanted to share this with you and about the World Cup.
Yeah. The World Cup. Yes. It's amazing, especially here in Spain. They just won the Euros this last, this past summer. The ladies team is also the world champions right now. They are the world champions right now. Yeah, the woman team. So yeah, there's a good, there's a great station. People want to see games in Miami.
People want to get to see soccer in Mexico city. Yeah, people is very excited about that. We, it's still a bit early for us in terms of of sales, but yeah, we're, we are very looking forward to it. Yeah. The deposits have just been released, I believe. And I think the. Tickets don't go on sale until the summer. I think in June or so. Our friends at on location have been on those emails. But Tomas thank you so much.
Closing Thoughts and Future Prospects Closing Thoughts and Future Prospects Fantastic insight on European tickets and reselling as well as your initiatives and sort of your thoughts around the U.
S. markets and the comparisons between each. So please, I would like you to come back and talk a little bit more once there are other initiatives that'll come down the line, I'm sure. But thank you for coming to Tips for Travel. No, thank you for having me. I have enjoyed it a lot. I always enjoy these kind of conversations with Americans, either if you're in the industry or not, because there are differences.
Again, we are nine years in the U. S. ahead versus Europe. But that means there's a huge room for growth for us here. Absolutely. So we totally welcome all the American fans, but also the American sellers here, which is something that is happening as well.
, American sellers are being more looking after investing in ticketing in Europe, because actually. There's place for it and I think that will help also in our conversations with the right holders here in Europe. No, exactly. I feel like these conversations are the key to merging ticketing and travel at scale.
And that's essentially why we're here because it's going to happen. If it takes 10 years, it takes 20 years, whatever it is, it's going to happen. All of the systems and all of the commercial deals are going to make sure that it makes sense. And again, I can't thank you enough. I'll see you in Florida. Yeah. See you there. Thank you very much, Mario. All right. Thank you.