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Come on. What do you say? Do you think it's the wildest show on the Internet? Are you ready? I wonder if you know how they dress in Tokyo. If he write it, then you read it, then you know he no nico. Amatora! Trip, trip, trip. Amatora! Trip, trip, trip. Throw gang, we are joined by the nonfiction pharaoh, the Imam of Ivy. Last name marks no car, so you know he copped that capital and the production is mean. Like serving a dude, Martini's, we got this guy, Jin.
He got status in culture, you a small, foused, vulture. Pen floating on the page, that's a Tokyo drift. He dropping bombs in Amatora, like Torra, Torra, Torra. You know nico, you know weak hose. Oh, he's a Japanese translator. Bet. Oh, you don't fuck with cultural critics. How about you cultural critical, these nuts?
His whole life with W can't even pronounce L's author of Amatora, How Japan, Saved American Style, and status in culture, How our desire for social rank creates taste, identity, art fashion, and constant change. W David Marx, W David Marx, how the hell are you? Hey, thanks for having me. I think he does, Scott. I'm good. Okay. I was just gonna talk to him in Japanese. You know, I mean, when in America, I finally appreciate English for speaking some English.
Yeah. Do you like get rusty with English? Not anymore. There was a point probably where I did, because I was more immersed. What's the longest trick you've gone not speaking English? I mean, never more than a day. I think the internet, like when I would go to Japan before the internet really took off, I felt a little more isolated. Okay. But, you know, I mean, come back and I like, what does Riz mean?
Yeah, no, I like, I know more of that than I think I should. But then once in a while, there's probably this like, there's this, I'm always fascinating where it comes from, but there's like this black hole of things that don't know. And it's always like Larry the Cable Guy. Oh, your cultural blind spot are the blue collar kings of confident. So, I think it's like Larry the Cable Guy. Yeah. What? So what is this layer of the cable guy?
Your mom be a redneck. And then I try to like, overcoxfer the overcompensate. But yeah, I know Riz is. Well, thank you for flying all the way here from Tokyo, Japan, just to come on the only podcast matters. That was super tight of you dude. We appreciate it. Yeah, fine out tonight. Yeah, for real. This is your, wait, so you're gonna, you're gonna leave here all amped up and just hop on a 14 hour flight.
Yeah, 14 is nothing to me anymore. In and out seal team fits, baby. That's the way we like to do it here. Yeah, yeah, you gotta come on fresh. So we're gonna call you David. That's cool. That's what my name is. David great to see you. The first thing we want to do. Well, actually, do you want to tell the people the W stands for? We are. We use stands for William. And it was given to me in honor of my grandfather, but he was
Billy. Okay. And my parents did not want me to be Billy. Why not? Because it's Billy. And so, you know, now like Williams or will, willy, maybe willy, but like, back in the day, it was Billy. So I was going to be Billy. And so they just, they gave me William and they called me David. And then I got to college and like my, my email was assigned W marks and nobody knew who it was. And there's another David marks. And so that kind of emails. So I did W David marks just as a kind of like way
to differentiate myself. And then as an author, it also is helpful because there's like 10 other David marks is doing stuff. There's marks that I think was a pretty popular author. Yeah, I think you might have got mentioned in the intro. Capital. I think his titles were a bit shorter though, a bit more concise. I think it was like maybe a couple of words, bro. Yeah, he sold a lot
better than I did. Oh, yeah. Well, from a commercial standpoint, not after this podcast, he never came on throwing fits, which always starts off with, did you invite him? You know what? He's a little busy. Yeah. Yeah, Billy, let's get right into a fit check, bro. Okay. Yes. Why don't you tell us everything that you wore today to the park? So this shirt is a brand called Kallum, which is designed by the stylist, Akio Hasegawa, who is the guy. If you know,
you know, but he is the stylist who used to be a pop-eye and he invented the big fit. Wow. And so there's, you know, there was a time magazine story about Big Fit starting in 2020. No, it's 2016 with pop-eye, Akio Hasegawa, and he had been the creative director for Naughtica as well recently. Yeah. And then so he moved over and has his own brand called Kallum. And this is where the fits from. And then my, I've got under this a white undershirt from Yonatomi, which is
Japanese knitwear company from Yamagata. I hope everyone's writing this down. Yeah. Take, no, it's all new. This whole podcast, by the way, is just going to be full. If you know, you know, Japanese darts. Yes. I'm, it's a reference for later for you, just for you, just regular. You don't want to listen to it at 0.5 speed. Yeah, exactly. So you got time to transcribe. So the undershirt once again, sorry. Yonatomi. Yonatomi. And the pants are from a Japanese brand called
Suki T-U-K-I out of Okayama, who do a lot of, this is like a Baker pant. So it's like they do a military repro but that's not like strict repro. It's just they, they take the idea, they rip, they rip on it and really great, 12 great materials. I think these socks are fru-loom. Okay. Undershirts. Yeah. I got to target when I go home, I get, I got to target. And then the first stop. You don't fuck with the Uniquele socks. Yeah. Mujil fit. So I wear size 13 shoes.
Nice. They do not make socks for congrats on your penis, Billy. Do they make, I mean, shopping in Japan must be tough as, how tall are you? Six four. You should have been a hooper. But that's like point guard size maybe. Yeah. Well, like is it hard finding, stop clothing that fits you in Japan? It, well, when, like is this supposed to be oversized but just fits, no, so when, when Tom Brown super fit stuff was in slim fit, then everything was like, oh, it's too small, but hey, it works because
pants are small. Those pants are literally shorts on you. Yeah. And then when everything in big fit, it's like great. That's actually fits. So I can't buy shoes. That's the one thing. So when I come home to the US, I get shoes. So what are the shoes? These are new balance. What are these? You tell me they're like, what's the number? I can't see. Five centimeters. Four? Yeah. Five centimeters. Yeah. There you go. Classy. I need, you know, with age, I like walking, but you get a plant or a
psitis. Is that what it's called? I have a foot pain. And so I got to wear sneakers. I got to go to Dr. Stretch. Do you need, do you? Yeah. That guy, that guy rules, did you buy any sneakers on this trip? Not on this trip. Okay. What are the panties? Yeah. Brooks Brothers. Oh, Oxford, traditional fit, like the old man boxers. Yes. You're on the list, bro. Here we go. So James keeps a running list of all the boxer wears as a boxer wear himself. Okay. And these are like the
these are the high rise old man. Like the same Oxford cost as the shirts. It is white and blue. It's beautiful. Honestly, I would love like those as like jammies. I don't know if those would be my daily drivers personally, but yeah. Okay. You're on the list. Wow. Do this. You can draw heat and Ben Solomon and Ace Rothstein and casino. There's also fictional characters. Okay. Tony's Prano, Ronald Woodcock. And you're sipping on some just simple, still water.
Yeah. That's what do people do normally? Whatever. Salters usually like, or like maybe I can energy drink if they're you know running around all day. But I feel like if it's got effervescence, then you're burping during podcasts. That might be a personal problem. That's a personal problem for me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm trying to keep it. I was fired from my own books on tape. Really? You know, I noticed this because I looked up. I wanted to read some one star reviews off
Amazon, but you didn't really have any. Oh, yeah. And the book was narrated by someone else. Yeah. They got some of their like, we want someone who's even nerder than you. Wow. This. And let's let's get this. I was supposed to do like 63 pages a day. It was like the super close schedule. And I showed up in the first day. We did like five because I'd be like, so the sociologist stop. Sorry. Do it again. The soci stop. It's so sea. All just not so she
all. Wow. They were so writing me and so we did four pages. And then it went to her fashion. Yeah. It's exactly. And a lot of just a living document. And I got there on Monday. I got basically they woke up on Monday. They're like, you're fired. For a photo or just were you relieved? Loki? Yeah. It was really hard. And it was like, it was the middle of the summer.
And I was in this little booth that had no air conditioning because of the sound. And so you just go in and try to do 30 minutes before you like, you know, so reading W David Marx confirmed hard. Sorry. It is hard to read your book. It was what you're. Yes. And there's also there's this famous cliche with books on tape where you started and you're like, who wrote this shit? And and apparently like I have a world record for like, send it's three. I was like, really? Yeah.
Yeah. It just it just wasn't it's like, I don't write to talk. You know, it's like, it's right. Right. So anyway, you write to right exactly. A writer's writer. Anyway, but the point is I could never do Selzer Wong. Yeah. Well, I just burped into the mic. I hope everyone caught that. Let's get into the meat and potatoes of the old podcast. Matter of speaking of writing your
books, you literally wrote the book on this topic with Amit Torah. Yep. But in a nutshell, can you just tell us why do the Japanese do American menswear better than Americans? So it's two things. It's first of all the Japan. And you know, it's you don't want to just say like Japan is like the entire country. But there's a bunch of people with a craftsman crafts person mindset. Yes. Who have done everything better. So like if you want Neapolitan pizza, it's great. If you want
the craft beer now is great. Whiskey, whatever. So there's there's a whole pattern of imported things that people bring crafts person mindset to. Then the second is just the particular historical quirk that in the 60s, this one businessman was like, I got to sell clothes. The young people, I can't find a style that doesn't make them look like juvenile. The link with it. And then he finds Ivy League style. And he's like, that's that's it. And then that's basically the birth of Japanese
menswear. And so it just happens to be this American traditional stuff where it all started. And then that spun out and brought us to today. So it's it. But I mean, the crafts person mindset is key. crafts person mindset versus like the more capo's mindset, which is like squeezing every cutting every corner, squeezing every cent out of every step of the process. Yeah. Suck this all out for the sake of the bottom line. Exactly. And America, maybe. And the thing God blesser.
I hate explanations of culture that are like in 1734, this famous prince did this. But who the fuck wrote this shit? Exactly. There is though this thing in medieval Japan where there was a hierarchy that was like God ordained hierarchy where it was aristocrats, samurai, farmers, crafts people, merchants. And the most important thing kind of in Japanese culture is that being a crafts person is higher than being a merchant. So if you make stuff, you want to precision yourself
as a crafts person that is a merchant. So you want to not look like you're cutting corners. You want to look like. Oh, I don't even care about making money from this. I'm just trying to make the best thing possible. Is there a Japanese term for this commitment to excellence mindset? There's a line. Monot's curry is this word that means making things. And just literally means making things. But it's become kind of glorified to me. The mindset of really caring about
what you make. But I mean, honestly, like being a store and just seeing someone like when they wrap a shirt for you, like the way they just fold the wrapping paper and place it in the bag, I'm like, that was inspiring. That makes you want to go home and write the best fucking dumb email I'm ever going to write, you know, asking for whatever, like some free sneakers. It's crazy. But you have,
I have one. I can give my example if it helps jog your jogger, you know, gets a wheel-stirring. But do you have a favorite example of how everything in Japan is simply better than everything in America? The subway, the trains, public transportation. Public transportation. I mean, I was quite surprised because Google Maps would say something like, oh, get the 240 from 51st street or whatever. And it actually did come on time like there are times. And New York's gotten better about that. But in
Japan, it's like someone will say, if someone will quit, the train's like one minute late. But so everything is super precise. Everything's clean. If there was like a really nice cookie that fell on the seat, you would eat the cookie. I wouldn't say that about so in Japan, the five second rule is actually like, you know, it's like 50 seconds. Also, everyone gets out of the way and lots of
people exit the train before stepping on. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. My favorite example is immediately when you get when you land in Nareta or Haneda or whatever airport at the baggage carousel, there's a line like two feet actually away from like the carousel itself. And people stand behind that line. And there's the line exists also in the subway. So, you know,
keep your feet like behind this line. So people have room to like stand. But by standing behind the line, everyone can now when their bag arrives, step up and take their bag versus you get back to Nork. Everyone's like, you don't get the fuck out of my way, bro, my fucking shit's coming first. Some kid is riding it, you know, some fucking bullshit. Yeah. I mean, look, I've been on a train, as I've been trained in New York where someone breaks into the announcer's booth and does fake
announcements. Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. That's never happened to me in Japan. That's awesome. I've had a Gatorade port on my head. You mentioned that. Yeah. SX street. Well, color. Maybe orange. That's never happened to me in Japan. I've had I was on the JMZ platform in Williamsburg and someone in one of the high rises nearby was sling-shutting eggs at all. That's on the platform. That's never happened to me. That's for your friends. Yeah. So, you know,
I love New York, though. Yeah. God bless her. Let's go back to menswear, though. What's like the what are some of the biggest differences it's in out to you between like the culture surrounding American menswear and the culture surrounding Japanese menswear? Yeah. I mean, one of the things that there used to be no culture of American menswear. I mean, that's new. You're the first generation, right? Well, God. Yeah. And when I was so I worked down the street, you know, 2001 to 2003,
and there was streetwear. And streetwear was still really niche. Like this was pre-Forell and Kanye. Right. So it's like a life era. Yeah. So like a life revenue club was a big deal. The map that you put on Twitter. Yeah. That was it. You know, and he would go to Supreme and you'd walk into Supreme and then they wouldn't help you. They would treat like shit. Yeah. But they were there was a bouncer. It's a premium. He'd dump a gator in her head. Yeah.
It was probably those guys. People I don't know if I've revealed this on a podcast before, but I was there was a point when I was in New York. It was probably 2003 where I was was extorted as maybe the right word, but like the Supreme staff pushed me into a corner and got 20 bucks out of me. Really? Yeah. But they're like stuff you know, bullied. Yeah. Basically, that like I opened the door and I got kind of spilled a drink. And I don't remember if I really
if you really did, but he's like, Hey, you got to buy me a new drink. And I was like, that was a $20. I was like, I'm an intern man. I'm like, really? And then like, hey, and then like, they back me into a quarter until I was like, here's your $20. James Jabbie. I know VF Corp Senate VF Corp Senate VF Corp. Yeah, it's it's cool. It's a great stuff into a box logo locker. Yes. The top of the David Mark story. And now if they did to me now, I just pay up earlier and not
go through the Malaysian. But the point was there was no menswear. And then in Japan, it's like the first time I went, it was a wise everyone dress so well. And what was interesting is my my thought was well, America will never have this because clothing is too out of its gay coated or right in code or whatever. But it's like guy like heterosexual guys can't be into clothing. That was like not wrong. Really rule. Yeah. And it's been it was just fascinating like
2007 and eight to see the rise of fashion blogs. It's like, Oh, this is all coming to the US. So the Japan was just in it longer. Yeah. And and now it's like all on the launch where you can't really tell. But how online are Japanese menswear, you know, enthusiasts or the the Japanese Johns enthusiasts like are they like obsessed with fit picks and Instagram and like that kind of are some of them. But like it's it's just nicer. It's like every better. Yeah. I mean, I don't
what I don't know if it's it's just less aggro. Yeah. I don't know. This is nice. What do you think? It feels less online. It does. I mean, the the main thing is the bulk of it is still physical and retail based and not e-commerce based. Right. So it's different. And the other thing too is that what made American style cool was that it was a bunch of people who weren't into clothing who wore clothing. Like you think about Ivy League style the 60s the whole point
where they weren't like, Oh, where'd you get that a button down from? I do. I do. You know, so my dad, it was just like a bunch of people like, I don't know, you go to the campus shop and you just, this is all I have. Right. And Japan was very much more like it was intentional. Right. And the US has now become more intentional where it's like, you go to menswear parties and people are like, let's talk about menswear. And the whole point used to be you dress up in order to go
to a thing or you dress up to express yourself. You don't dress up because you're part of a subject. So are we now here more intentional than our Japanese counterparts? If you had to kind of like, it's not to make it a competition. I think like there's not there's not that many menswear guys who are young. There's like a lot of young guys who just dress well. But I think there's actually not as many. So just actually people who are like, like I have a I have a Tumblr and yeah, yeah,
like that kind of stuff doesn't exist as much. Is it acquisition based as much over there as it is here? Where it's like he who has the most stuff wins. What do you do? Well, there's I think there's like a normal person isn't there. But then there's the mega collectors. Yeah, like I went to someone's a place the other day and they had like, I don't know, a thousand pairs of Nike's sick and in their home and they're tiny little like it was in the warehouse. Like they're
their father. His father was like a some sort of wholesaler and they just had this empty warehouse and I was full of shoes and what's that famous photo essay series of Japanese collectors of like their favorite brands. Right. Yeah. For fanatics or something. It's like, but it's all like this person collects comb this person, someone with like all these horse bit like Gucci horse bits and right. Yeah. And then like, you know, Niko's got everything. Right. And his house is a museum.
He has all sorts of stuff where you didn't even know what existed. Because I thought like, oh, he's going to just have 501s or whatever. And it's like, oh no, I have all these categories of clothes that no one's seen in the first pair of jeans. He's like really into peanuts sweaters. And so he has all the peanuts sweaters. Oh, like, super. And like snoopy Charlie Brown. This is current obsession. All these jack. No, that's a long. Yeah.
obsession or he has all these like butter finger salesmen from the 1930s. Jack hits or something. I didn't know that was a thing. So I think they're like mega collectors just beat out everybody. Yeah. And then but then like the normal person isn't quite there anymore. And just like, I don't know, just wears. But those collectors too, it's coming from such a pure, a pure honest, sincere place of enthusiasm. Not about like flexing. Yeah. Like kind of what, you know, we have over here.
Also not to not to go into the oldies, but fucking amends wear has such an aggressive edge to it that you would never see in general. Right. Yeah. He wouldn't see someone shitting on Alan Edmunds. Yeah. My bad. So this is the funniest thing I've ever seen. Like, I can't believe somebody understands this so well to have whatever have these few. Whatever genius like co-wrote that book. Yeah. I think you just need to get laid still anonymous.
I'm pretty sure it's get laid to be honest. Kevin Burrows is a great, great picture book. Are there men's wishy but on yet or the men's were dog? No, men's were dog on. I remember that guy. I don't know. He outsells every other. Really? Urban outfiters number one best seller. Are you jealous of a dog? David. Yeah. It'd be nice to have, you know, yeah, bigger audience. There's Shibu sales. You mentioned how a lot of the culture and scene is rooted in the physical
and the retail. Yeah. And that's like immediately obvious when you go there. It's not about, you know, just Instagram, Instagram, Instagram. What are in your opinion the best stores in Tokyo? It's really hard because the scope and the scale of Japanese retail is just like 10X everywhere. I mean, New York's caught up. I mean, New York's got a lot more but we are doing okay. We're so back. Jean De Leon was in Tokyo six months ago. So we went to Coingee which is like the vintage store
district. Anything. It's the vintage store district. So it's got like, I don't know, 20 or 30 shops. It must have like 100. And by like store number 40, you're just like, I can't do. I can't do anymore. And they had one. Not another M65, please. But there's like one that was only a vintage Brooks Brothers vintage polo vintage Jeep. So the specialize. They all specialize. And and he really wanted to find this place called chill weeb, which is it only sells vintage
anime shirts. Like this is a hot store right now. They're like fishing. That's fire shirts or something. The craziest store in Tokyo and maybe the world, the menswear store. It's called softs S O F T S. It's in Kichijouji. It's on the the roof of this building. And it's like he only sells menswear that you've never seen anywhere else. And it's all ridiculous. It's like it's a vintage. Some of its vintage is some of its like his own weird collaborations with Swiss military
beret companies. And like, like if if you want a normal beret, don't go there. Right. I want a giant size beret. They have big ass head. If you want a hat that says me in China on it, it was me in the USA. That's the place to go. Okay. So he that store is crazy and great. But then I mean where I shop is like Beams Plus. Beams Plus is just so reliable and great. And is that your go to beams? And then there's a thousand of them. Yeah. Beams Plus.
It Beams Plus does the traditional stuff. And you're not Beams Boy boy. Beams boys for girls. Beams boys for girls. Yeah. What? So Beams Boy is like the trend line for women. It's like the Beams Plus for girls. Okay. Okay. I mean, my my clothes at the girls shop. Yeah. Like why the fuck is this guy doing here again? So Beams is like your, I don't know, just kind of middle of the road. But is that like because Beams, you know, here it's like,
oh shit, Beams go to whatever. But is it more kind of mainstream middle of the road? mainstream. It's just reliable. And they have a lot of basics like button downs that are always the same every year and great. But if you also want to get weird and freaky and go to a store that specializes in gigantic braze, boy do I have a place for you. Yeah. So, so you know, there's a range soft. It's hard. The vintage is also like there's there's probably four or five
stores in my own neighborhood that I don't know the names of really. But have the most amazing collection of early 1990s Ralph Oxford's in like really crazy colors. And they have an infinite supply of them. If you can't find them in the United States because they're all there. They're all there. I don't know what the names of these stores are because there's just so many of them and they're all
they're all probably owned by the same company. Have you gotten numb to like living in a menswear clothing shopping paradise or do you still like pull on away every single time you walk into like a store like softs? You just have to have more discipline because I have this long standing emotional complex, which is I hate buying things I don't use. Right. It makes you feel bad. So like if I see a shirt and I like I got to get that I start feeling bad for the other shirts
that are going to get pushed. I totally know how you feel. Clothes have feelings too. Yeah. And I don't know. I don't know. And so so that I think that tempers a little bit. Oh, and then so you're emotional yet efficient. Yes. Your heart and head. That's what I try to do. And then also is it shintoism? Did you feel this way before you moved to Japan? I felt this I felt this way before. Okay. I don't believe that there are spirits in all my
things. I just just feelings. I just feel like it's it's a waste to buy a shirt that just it's and you're not wrong. And the other problem is that okay. So almost all my shirts are buttoned down on Oxford cost shirts. And I and then I'm like, okay, I got white. I got blue. I got pink. I got the Oxford stripes. Oh, I wanted the Oxford stripe and pink. And now I need this with a club collar or whatever. So you start flushing it out. And then you're like, oh, I need this in orange stripe.
And then you get it in orange stripe. And you're like, when the fuck am I going to wear this? It doesn't match anything. Fucking clown. Yeah. And unless it's a throwing thing. No, but I was thinking of a club collar or Oxford version. Not what we just sold out. Thank you against everybody who bought the peach. And so then your son. It's like, is this just to collect and to open my closet and be like, Hey, it's like Skittles or is it stays the ranch on the floor? And what you
realize is like, I wear white and blue probably four out of seven days. So why am I going out to buy like I'm going to get this purple that I'm never going to put on. But you know, New Year's, New Year's comes. But once a year has moving to Japan. Like how long have you been in Japan full time? 21 years. But your style was kind of rooted in like growing up in the South, growing up in like an academic context and like being into like traditional American sportswear and IVs.
Is that fair to say? Yeah, well, it's complicated because as a kid, I was wearing that stuff and hated it. Okay. And so, you know, there's all these photos that I'm able to pull out now. I'll be like, look at me and the Tweed blaze and and Sabago campsites and like, and you know, I'm interviewed for Japanese magazines. And I can show these and be like, look how authentic I am. Sure. But at the same time, at 14, I like just wanted to be cool with the grunge kids.
Right. And they're like, go away. Yeah. Nice nice try. I'm just like, yeah, boy, he's like, no, but I've got Joe College over here. I don't know. I have this dinosaur junior tape. Yeah, you can be friends. And so, you know, I was wearing trying to wear band t-shirts with and you know, I don't think I started wearing jeans until I was about 18. And this man didn't feel denim on his thighs till 18. Because the other thing is like denim, I was really skinny and all the denim that I inherited
for my brother was like skin tight because of the 80s denim. And so until like a wide fit came out, I just like didn't feel comfortable in jeans. So I, I wore- So the tab changed your life. So the tab saved your life. Exactly. So then I went to Japan. I just never thought about clothing or fashion. And then in Japan, I was like, oh, you could wear a bathing Apt shirt and some like selfish denim and some Adita superstars. And now I'm, hey, it's fashion. Right.
With a Capitol F. So that got me into streetwear and I was wearing streetwear. And then the streetwear kind of merged into maybe APC. And then that kind of when Tom Brown came out, I was like, oh, I know all that. I grew up on all that. Right. And that like became a Trojan horse for me to get back all the reference points were already there when you were yelling at your mom for dressing you up like a nerd. Yeah. And then also like all the fits from the 90s were so big that it,
they actually started fitting. Right. But the time I picked them back up in like 2008. So moving to Japan did kind of like blow your mind wide open to the possible. Yeah. Because where are we going to get it? Infinity. Yeah. And you know, uh, uh, call it like on college campuses then we dresses up. Like I'm sure college kids now dress much better than they did when I was there. Thanks. Oh, but they're probably fucking Zara dude. Yeah. But it's like they're, I don't know. Young people,
I feel like try a little bit harder or they lose. Maybe. Well, the cameras on them 24 seven. Yeah. Right versus like when we're in college where that wasn't the case. Yeah. So anyway, in America, there was like no, I mean, I, I talked about this a lot, but I watched a lot of MTV. I'm from Pizzacol for it. Like there's, there's no local exposure to culture. And the baby MTV all the time. Right. And you know, I want almost everything on MTV. And then House of Style would come on.
Cindy Crawford. I'd be like, click like this. I don't, I don't care about this run. Mom don't bother me. I'm learning. Yeah. So I, I did not watch. I just thought fashion was like not related to me. Right. Um, you've mentioned, I mean, the latest one you just mentioned, Bada Ape mentioned, I don't know, just being a bunch of legendary Japanese brands. I'm going to put you on the spot right now. And maybe should have given you this question ahead of time. Yeah.
What are your favorite Japanese brands of all time? All time. Let's mount, let's mount Rushmore. So top your, the best four on range. Okay. So the thing about mount Rushmore is these are presents who are not living at the same time. So I think we can go. Yeah. Error too. Right. Sure. So or you can blow wide open. Just name them. It's almost like this guy's smart. You got a band jacket on there. So whether band jacket today is good or not, band jacket was the first men's wear. But it represents
the George Washington. Yeah. And the most influential. Yeah. So you got to put band jacket on there. That was 50s, 40s, 60s. I think it's technically starting 48, but it's 60s. Maybe put beams on there just for the west coast side of it and everything they've done for denim. This is getting hard. You don't have to keep it before. Yeah. What's your favorite Japanese favorite? I mean, like bathing ape. Again, it's like, you know, the thing about fashion is that not
every brand can last forever. Be cool forever. Right. And I mean, come to our, come to our sounds incredible that it's been cool forever. Or Yogi. Right. And Yogi went, had a bankrupt C period. Right. That's mean it wasn't cool. Yeah. There was like a dip. But like come to go like, Ray Comacou would just become a god. And then it's been, it's been, it's been way sense. But bathing ape like at the time that no one had seen anything like that. And so here is
your food you are who was, he goes mentor. Like he dipped in. He had good enough, but he wasn't. He sees himself like as a musician. Not as like a men's work guy. He's just talking to like fragment designs like this. Yeah, fragments later. And he had a burden. Sorry. He said burden. He was, he does stuff with burden. And he's had two dozen brands. Yeah. Can't be name them all. But bathing ape was the one where it's like, I mean, he was a team to this is taking this to see
model and blown it out. Right. So that one's hard to ignore. Uh, yeah, I guess Yogi and come across on for the 80s. Uh, give a favorite Japanese denim brand. I wear, so Tuki, the people who made the pants and wear it now, they do denim and I wear that a bunch. I mean, APC is interesting because I wore APC denim all the time. And that's Kai hard denim. So they were one of the first brands globally to make a big deal out of where you use
that mill. Right. Right. Okay. So, you know, what is that truly Japanese? And he posted that racist meme about cherry blossoms. Yes, he did. Oh, I don't know. Sorry. It was pre-cancel culture. So he skated. He definitely offended. I can't tell now because no, he is. Okay. Jantai, jantai, dude. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's, there's lots of denim, like, you know, or slow as a brand I've never worn. But every time I see their stuff, it's great. Yeah. So, uh, that's the other thing.
Like I was in London, I did an event with Jason Jules who did Black Ivy. And we were walking around the clutch cafe store, which is pretty cool in London. And there was like a beautiful sweater. And I was like, that's such a great sweater. And he's like, but it's a sign of maturity when you can look at a sweater and say, that's a great sweater. But I don't have to have this. Yeah. And so, it's not for me. Yeah. And there's the brand of the sweater. I forget it was. It was just really bright
and like yellow. And it was beautiful. But I don't need to wear it. And so I think it's the same with like a lot of Japanese denim brands. Like, that's great. But I don't need to own this. Yeah. I don't need the fucking samurai. I need more big John and Mollotaro. I think so. Did we miss anyone? I don't know. It's a hard. I mean, by trading it to four, I feel like that's tough. But I think it's like, I think that you saying Mount Rushmore, that is chiseled and stone. Yes, sir.
And so that's I think stolen stone. That made me a little, but also I think you went most influential. I want to know what your favorite. My favorite. Yeah. I mean, I'll tell you, I mean, it's what I wear. So it's like beams plus for the casual stuff. Comic shirts does all my dress shirts. That's in the business, baby. Yeah. And then they do made a measure. Comicura. Yeah. Yeah, braw. I'm the number one shopper of the vintage Ivy collection. Yeah. vintage Ivy is great.
And they've been doing great stuff recently. But also just I've long arms and they do made to measure. So oh, there you go. That's important. I don't know. Tukki, I just said for the pants. You like what you like? Oh, there's a great brand, Si SCYE that is basics. They're kind of, there's like that zone of brands. And then I didn't talk about the zone of interest. It got too hot so I can wear it. But I was wearing this sweatshirt rugby hybrid that's from a brand called
Adult Oriented Robes. Wow. Yo, great Japanese brand name. And so you know, AOR music. So he's obsessed with AOR music, which is adult oriented record. That's the record label. And so he does, he's like on the city pop stuff. So he has a brand that it's like representing 80 city pop. It's like kind of at leisure. This is not a specific reference. I don't know a bit, which is the garbage. And so I've been by much stuff from AOR recently. It's like real big fit. It's great.
And that's great. So I don't know. There's like this middle zone of brands that aren't super big. It's just great. Everyone makes great stuff. It's hard to, hard to whittle it down. I mean, I mean, with VisVam, it's like, I don't wear VisVam, but it's hard not to say VisVam's not incredible what they do is visit Japanese brand. How's that? It's Roki in, is he in Japan? He's in America. He's mostly, I think he's kind of split time, but he is he grew up in Japan.
His engineering garments are Japanese brand. Oh, that one's harder. Damn. Depend these Japanese. I mean, I think engineering, engineering garments makes a very big deal out of being made in the USA. I agree. I didn't mention them in all my, or he's got great stuff that I wear. Hard to beat. Yeah. Are there any mentioned AOR, adult oriented robes, mentioned side? Are there any other kind of like bubbling Japanese brands that are doing really exciting things
that, you know, everyone here knows capital. Yeah. Everyone here knows Vis, you know, the go-to go-to Japanese brands, but like who are some brands that people should really start paying attention to? There's a brand called Innoi, the Innoi Professional E in O-Y. I don't know what that means. Okay. It's by the stylist. That one is pretty hot right now. Okay. AOR, anything that Akio Hasegawa does, the stylist that he's related to.
I don't know, but you know, the United arrows and beams and they've got, they're just turning out to all the way up to the right. They're always doing great stuff. The paper is graph paper, like, hot over there right now. All the gorpi kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Other more like, and we didn't talk about like, I don't know, white mountaineering. Sure. I mean, it's infinite, right? It's hard. It really is.
It's hard to, it's awesome. I mean, the thing is that when people come, like, menswear guys come to Japan and I meet with them, they always have this list that I, I don't know any of these things, man. Like, they, people know more than I do being there. Because I get, I don't know, I'm also in a groove where I'm like, I'm just going to go to these three places. You know what that is? That's the flattening of status and culture, which we're
going to talk about soon. Let's do it. But before we get there, so like, I think something that is pretty clear is that there are American subcultures that within Japan, the subculture becomes obsessed with it, whether it's like the rock abilities. I just saw there's a Jamaica day in Japan, where people were fucking pop of their asses and bagging. What are some American subcultures that young Japanese people right now are currently obsessed with?
And those are all really specific and out of control. And there's not that many people into it. Right. The rockabilly thing was, I wouldn't say mainstream, but that subculture was huge in the 80s. And now there's like one of those old rockabilly dance groups that still is out there, like once a month in Harajuku and they're like literally 65. Yeah, good for that. The Mohawks, or the fucking Buffons all the way up. But it's just them. So it's like saying
young people into that as Miss Nomer. And there's the people who are into the low-rider Chicano. Yeah, but the Chalos, yeah. But I think they're an Osaka or something, and that's also a small scene. So I think most Japanese young people are pretty like norm core. And they're not. Yeah, right. They're more into K-pop. Yeah, I mean, seriously. One of the major changes in Tokyo was that there's a neighbor called Shinokubo. That's next to Shinjuku that was the Korean ethnic neighborhood.
And when I first was going to Tokyo, people would speak of it in this really kind of racist way. You don't want to go there. And now it's like the hottest thing. Tokyo, because K-pop's so big. So it's like more, it feels more crowded than Harajuku sometimes, up just like young Japanese women going to have Korean sweets or eat Korean barbecue and shop at Korean cosmetics. It's really interesting. Well, we know that South Korea has kind of become like the dominant soft culture power
in a East Asia with like music, obviously film, cosmetics, aesthetics. Does Japan still have the top spot when it comes to fashion style or South Korea like, is it gaining on Japan? This is one great question. So I think Japan still has the, I mean, it's actually kind of cool. So I think Japan and Korea are in this interesting coexistence moment where Korea kind of has the cogsist, baby. They have the top spot for the kind of casual fashion that you can actually imitate.
Like if you're in Southeast Asia and you don't have a lot of money, you can dress like what you see on Instagram from Korean influencers. Whereas like everything in Japan is like kind of expensive. And you can't rip it off. Like people aren't wearing fake capital or something. Right. And so Japan kind of owns the space for high end craft artisanal artisanal. And then Korea owns the mass pop young fun segment. And they're kind of working together. And I've seen now
where there's more stuff in Korea that's imitating the Japan stuff. And then there's more stuff in Japan that's imitating the Korean stuff. It's a true cultural exchange. It's like it is, it is a night and day compared to how things have been in the past. If you, if you know about East Asian history, the Japanese College Nation of Korea, it was not very popular in Korea. And so, you know, there's some tension there. And right now it's been diffused. And it's a really
healthy cultural exchange. I don't want to be too, you know, optimistic. And I even got it, but it seems really positive. So, like for example, one one where example is pop by magazine did in a soul guide issue. And it wasn't, it was like very respectful. And like this is this is soul and it's cool. And you should go there. And that was the first time I think they'd ever done a Korea travel issue. Is that like the ultimate cosine, the pop by travel guide? Yeah. I mean,
like, and it wasn't even like, oh, go backpacking and rough it. It's like if you're going to have a good time in Tokyo, you could also have a good time in Seoul the same way. These are cool spots. So the young people in exchanging fashion and aesthetics, they are the ones bridging the gap. That's called drip diplomacy right there. Yeah. They're the ones bringing peace. What about like, that's a book drip diplomacy. Yeah, talk to your agent. Absolutely. That's for you. That's your next
one. I'm more going to know. So like, I think what South Korean and Seoul is doing, and this is because the fucking Samsung and LG, they have like so much money. They're trying to make Seoul a cultural destination. They're literally importing fucking, you know, whether it's supreme, whether it's like our legacy, they're just like making Seoul a fashion destination. On the flip side, it is so hard to license your brand to like operate in Japan. Like, is that, do you see anything changing
in like the Japanese landscape? What's that? Have you been to Seoul? No, never been. I really want to go. It's a really cool city, and it has, it just has like a different energy than Tokyo, and it's much more youthful. And for some reason, I don't think youth are more of a part of the Korean population than Japan, but they're just like more out there. And so when you go to Seoul, you just see people on the street having fun. It's vibrant. It's very vibrant. And it offers
kind of the newest global culture stuff. So if you want to go to a great cafe or craft beer place or a cheese steak place or whatever, like the hot thing in New York is, they'll have in Seoul like instantly. Oh, so now Japan's slower at getting damn they've got beat at their own. Yeah. And so I think Korea actually got faster at being cutting edge than is that the government money kind of that's funding that maybe like James also just the diaspora in the sense of, you know, there's a lot
of Korean Americans. Sure. A lot of Koreans come and study in the US and go back, whereas Japan, like, Japanese students don't come to study in the US anymore. There's never been a Japanese American diaspora at the same size as the Korean American diaspora. So I think some of it's just structural like that. And Korea, I don't know, I mean, the I worked in tech for a while and worked on YouTube. And the Korean record labels use of YouTube was aggressive and cutting edge. And you
know, why did Gangnam style happen? It's because they were in the habit of like put every single video on YouTube, put it, give it subtitles, give it metadata. Like they were, that's still the number one viewed video on YouTube ever. Is it Despecido now? Uh, yeah, I don't know if it still is, but it was the first to hit two billion, right? You know, it just I mean, he's still doing his thing. Yeah. And so
that viral video of him performing live is incredible. I saw the one recently where he was at a Dodgers game right after it came out. You know that? And they started playing Gangnam style just to make people dance. And then they like, they like cut to him. And he was like, nah, no, no, no, no, no, in like now they watch us like, oh, that was totally staged. Yeah. Right. Well, I think so also or maybe all of Korea also has like the fastest internet in the world that was like, you know,
mandated by the government. But it's just it was like a super duper pro internet society. In a way that Japan was like, we're cool. We don't need the internet. Right. So, uh, so it's just going to two different directions. So I think Tokyo is where you go for the like digital detox. If you want the really analog experience that doesn't feel cutting edge and and the places I like to go in Tokyo now are the like places that have been around for 50 years or you know, old old things and then
and souls really good. The new that's the matrix. Soul is the matrix. And so, you know, Tokyo used to be known as like the most cutting edge place. And I think souls were placed that. But what's cool, you know, I don't know how if you know this, but if you fly from Tokyo to Seoul, it's 90 minutes. Wow. So so close. So you can go to these two places and get these two fantastic experiences that are
really different. Tokyo has like a retro futuristic feel to it these days where it's like, this was the most cutting edge shit in like 1983. Yeah. Right. Anything analog. So like if you use a Japanese website, everything has like your taxis. Everything has like knobs in his tactile. Yeah. Anything text out taxile works. So like trying to pay your taxes on the Japanese website is just impossible. Like,
it's like, Oh, you need Chrome 4.3 for this. Yeah. How do you do that? But then if you like go to the train station and you put four tickets in it once and three of them are backwards and some of them are cut in half, like they all come out like perfectly like before. So anything analog is but you got to do taxes on geocities. So it's like that's and so for a long time, it's like Japanese catch up. Like this is this is embarrassing now. Like thank God that Japan was behind because
we need somewhere in the world to be like the analog place. So that's why everything's right. So how do you feel them when you come to New York? Where how do you like, if we think of these third world countries ends of two like two ends of this spectrum with like the matrix and this retro futurism like where's New York in that? It's a shit haul country. New York. Yeah. Be nice. The buildings are beautiful. Yeah. Do you ever look up? Like just look up. I was up on,
what is it? Like seven than fifty first. I just looked up in this building. The marble engraved the car. Not the billionaire's palace on 56 or 57. I don't think it was that one. But there's nothing like that. Right. Asia. And you're just like, wow, this. So New York's got that going for it. Cool. Um, buildings. It's got some. Yes. It's got some grit. Sure. Okay. Yeah. I like. I like some other things that you're being very diplomat. Yeah. Triple Maddick as James is there? Is there something
kind of going back to like, you know, the cultural change between Japan and America? Is there something trend driven or niche happening in Japan that you think will very soon hit the shores over here? Not to dodge the question, but I do think the thing I just said about rejecting digital culture, like I think that's coming. I do think we hit this peak with. You being hopeful when you say this. Yeah. No, but like I think people are getting bored with being on their phones
all the time. Yeah. And there's going to be a different direction. It's going to go that Japanese direction. I would also say, you know, and one of the things that's been cool about a mentor coming out is I get a lot of great conversation with new brands who read the book and are like, we want to be really craft driven. And so that idea that let's not try to sell out and just make things cheaper and care about profit, but really make great things. Like I think that trends
coming. I think you meant something like, oh, snow cones. Yeah. You just want like the snow cones. Snow cones. Yeah. It's cool. I think tactile, like like knobs that turn and like, you know, having like the like the old iPod, you know, kind of like clicking wheel type shit. I think is kind of along with that like digital detox or the analog guization of shit. When you wrote your book then Amator, did you expect it to become this kind of like, I don't want to speak for you here, but maybe
this kind of blueprint that newer brands are like looking to or like a playbook. I did not think about that at all. And when I was writing it, so I wrote it kind of 2013, 2014. And I was so worried that when it came out, people like, Oh, Japan brands, that was so like 2013. Like I missed the wave. And you know, they only became more popular from that way. If I'm not crested yet, the book, the book is almost as doing better now than when it came out. That's awesome. And it's because
just more people are into Japanese fashion. So I never thought about it as this is a playbook. I was just telling the history. Right. Right. And but that's I think that's what's been cool. It's just there's so many young people in the West who decided like, I want to make clothes. Right. And it's hard to make clothes. Right. I mean, the thing that telling us brother. The reason Japan still has so much like so many cool brands is because you can make the stuff in
Japan. And it's increasingly they're using China or they're using Southeast Asia. But you can still do things in Japan. And you know, I was on the train from Boston to New York last time I was here. And you're just passing like burnt out brick warehouse after warehouse that those used to be factories. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. They took our jobs. Yeah. We used to make things in this country. Exactly. So, uh, you know, I think that's all these things I didn't think about. And that's what's
again, cool about writing a book is you're like, here's the history. I hope you find it interesting. And then people take it in different directions. History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. Oh, bars back to trends happening over there. Yeah. What about trends happening in menswear that you think might make their way over here soon? I mean, the big fit is come. It has come. Huge pants definitely a Japanese thing, right? Yeah. Huge pants are a Japanese thing. I think
everything's not as big yet. Like I'm not saying the really big silver jacket. Really? And we say big fit. We're being like literal like things that fit large. Very large. Like everything oversized. Like the Japanese construction pants. No. Like I mean, I think the J crew baggie fit. Is that what they're called big giant giant chino? The giant chino honestly, that was close. Not that big. Not that big. Not that big.
And there you pleat, I might say. Yep. But then you got to match it with the big oversized shirt and the big oversized jacket. And so that I think that is is now. Like did it. They do a giant Oxford. They brought that back as well. So it's almost like they're building we can we can build it and we can build it bigger. If we build it, it will come. Peace is coming. But I think that is coming. I think this guy,
Rio Takashima, you know him? This guy. I feel like he was a big big fit guy, but also literally just big like the big pants and the new balances was like that thing that he had like something like songs to new balance. I mean that that is also key to that look and new balances also key to. The chill look at this. Yeah, look at this shit. We're as big as fucking fit. That's literally 1996 mall rat. That's awesome. But he makes it look so good.
Whatever reason, like the new balance are the shoes for that look. Yeah, for right? Yeah. I don't know exactly what like. A6 too. Yeah. And A6 is a Japanese company. That is true. True. New balance almost feels like it's I mean, they're going to kill me for saying this, but like it feels like a Japanese company could you see them so much in Japan? It's just like it is the basics. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think they have a dedication to craft that you don't necessarily
see out of like the other big, the big, you know, fuck the big three. It's just NB. Yeah. That is a wrap reference. Okay. Let's move on to your current book. Yep. That just came out 2022. Okay. Yeah. Still making waves. You wrote a book on status and culture. How much of a nose dive is your status taking by coming on to this podcast? Oh, guys. The opposite. Are we big in Japan? Not yet. Okay. Real heads. No language language. Well, I'm literally big in Japan at the
CP company store. Right. Yeah. So like we have started this apryed. I think, look, I think podcasting is starting to get bigger in Japan, but it's not like radio is really big there. But we're asking is there a menswear radio show? Currently, not that I know. Okay. Do you like socialize room for expansion? Guys, I think the thing is the throwing fits is a pun that doesn't translate into Japanese. Is this a podcast about babies? I'm upset babies. Yeah. Okay. Do socialize
with like a menswear scene there? Or you just kind of like, I mean, I know you're, you know, your chill guy, but like, thanks. No, I mean, I go to parties for menswear brands. Okay. I know. I mean, some of its were, I mean, the thing is like since I also work in that world, yeah. I can welcome to our life, bro. I could have, you know, for professional reasons,
you go to a network. I went to a, is this just bragging? But like I went to a party recently and and it's just like, oh, there's the other in shape of Popeye and I got to talk to him about this. There's that guy we got to talk about this. I don't know. So the 90-d arrows guy and the, yeah. And the fucking Poggy, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That was exactly. So I saw Poggy because he's coming out with the book with Resoli. Oh cool. And he asked me to write an essay for it. So I was
like, I didn't see him. Everybody, oh, he's the essay cool. Oh, so you ever been to his bar? Oh, I haven't been yet. Like the secret kind of like he built a bar for himself just to get fucked up by himself. He did. Yeah, I saw something where he just loves drinking, right? He's like, I carry. Okay. He he likes me enough to write the essay for his book, but not enough to invite me to the book. Maybe once the book is published, you can go to the, I'm sure the release party that'll
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reputation like in the Japanese vends we're seeing? I mean, look, this is the other thing. Are you like the you're the corked up white boy? So, I'm a tour I wrote in English. Based on all these Japanese sources. And I wasn't even thinking it would come out in Japan. I don't know why it's really bizarre. And my feeling was like, where people know this stuff? And what happened is it came out and then like no Japanese publishers were that interested.
And then finally, I started getting some buzz in Japan. And then disk union, the big record store, they have a publisher and they picked it up. And then we serialized it in Popeye for a year. Oh, wow. And when it was in Popeye too, like we weren't getting any feedback. And I think it's just in the back of the magazine you want to solve it. So I was like, okay, I don't think this is going to be a thing. But back in the magazine is actually the fun of the magazine. Yeah, you got to flip it.
Yeah, you got to flip it. Yeah, you got to flip it. It's not a flip. It's not a flip. It was in the front of the magazine in a bad way. So anyway, it came out and it did really well. And it's on its eighth printing. Wow. Have you sold more books in Japan now than in America? No. And actually the number one market for Amatoria is China. Whoa. Let's go. Maybe 30,000. Holy shit, dude. Congrats. Yeah. Guys big in China. Yeah. So
you know, do what it's called there? What? No. Because they had to retitle it. Because they're all they're all titled different. But because Amatoria is a Japanese phrase for American traditional. Yeah. And also like nobody cares about the Chinese Chinese fashion markets huge, but nobody cares about American traditional. So they they care about street wear. So they renamed it what translates to hard juku cowboy. That's sick, dude.
And I was like, let's not call it that is like, we know what we're doing. And they knew where they were doing. So that's when you go to China is like, yo, look, it's the hard juku cowboy. Yeah, that's he ha mother fucker. I haven't been yet where they even said that. But it also cowboys. Yeah, chill. We're over here. It's because cow jeans is cowboy pants. Okay. Cowboy pants. Yeah, that's the five translation change. Well, we're going to steal that
expeditiously. So anyway, so it came on Japan. And it's done well in Japan. And people read it and like it, which is incredibly gratifying. Right. I mean, that's the ultimate sign like seal of approval or a coastline. So in that sense, like, I mean, pop I probably won every two or three issues in a club and tight all those things. So I'm just trying to be objective. How do you think it's because like every soft and we'll see, you know, an American or a New Yorker,
like they pop up and pop I. Pop I hasn't office here, right? No, but you know, they used to it. Okay. They don't even know what they're just fucking walking around like going to like Shai's burger pop ups and like finding Mr. Mort on the street. Like, I think what happens is they're like, we're going to do a New York issue and then whoever their scout is. Okay. How about these people? And then they kind of just just like a geotech. Yeah.
He's they put an apple air tag on his fucking chinos. Dude. What are the like tropes at Japanese men's where events like in New York? It's like, Oh, cool. A fucking shitty Italian beer and a vintage car and some fucking Mahogany wood with some art books. Yeah. What is it in Japan? Yeah. Same shit. Pretty much the same beer lasers probably have beer lasers. Dude, are you saying like a party or the store? Like an event like an event. Yeah.
Events don't have I don't think it's that different. What's the order of situation? Just like the music will be less punishing. Okay. Are you going to just crack less? Yeah. What are the or derves looking like? The word derves are. It depends. Okay. I know there's a hard question. It's not that interesting. Well James and I, when we went when we saw you at the the Victor was that Victor Victor pop up? That was that was
for what was it for it was for the cause human made thing, but it was Jupiter. Right. The auction site. I think that was the part. But at the store they had they had imported the beer lasers, which is awesome where they can fucking put some cool. I love that. I never say nobody have only seen that here. Oh, really? They also had a whole selection of Santori whiskeys. Yes. I've never seen. Oh, really? Oh, do we do like this 35 years? Yes.
America. Absolutely. Absolutely. I've never been to a party with that. When will American beer technology catch up with Japan where we have those robot pourers where we're going to put all bar keeps out of business and just like you put a glass down and you know, you really want to make more people unemployed in the United States? No, but I would like the perfect for. When your wenches are people too. By the way, what's your favorite Japanese beer?
If of the big bland four probably episode bland. I'll be soon. But like the the craft beers are so good now and like are they all me and they're all me in Japan. They're not importing like food ranger. Well, they are. They do. Oh my God. They're importing all of the like major craft beers. But then there's a couple of low gross cool companies that are great. But like a three percent or four percent session IPA. Whatever those are incredible. You're an IPA guy.
But like the session IPAs aren't have no understanding. He was like, is that old fast? It's a general. It's a generational thing for sure. We don't fuck with like a saahi super darai. Yeah. Super is terrible. What? It's great. Super dry is good if you want to be on. No. Or is pretty good. But if you're in Okinawa, we're going to cure in each bond. Cure in each one's good. Okay. Supported. Those are fine. But they're just not. Sure. What do you call
the big bland four? Yeah. Like so saahi super kira has an awesome. Like Pog and offended. Uh, Kirin premium malts and Ebisu. So the thing is it's the fancy one. What's your combini order? Like when you hit the 7-Eleven or the loss in our family mark. Like a Wilkinson's club soda in an interesting flavor. So, uh, seltzer. Uh, a coffee, the cafe latte. Like iced coffee latte that doesn't have sugar in it. Oh, they did. Some of them are really sweet.
Yeah. So you gotta, you gotta avoid that. Do you fuck with the fried chicken there? So sometimes like egg salto. I went to the gym and I was like, I'm really hungry and I need something and they have like the yakitori at the store. And it's like, that's pure protein right there. So I bet you would fucking slap too, right? It was delicious. Yeah. I would, I mean, this is the biggest like cliche in the world, but you would not eat the hot dog at a American 7-Eleven. Most people yourself. Yeah.
Most people yourself. But the company excluded. Yeah. Right. The yakitori at the, the law sends or whatever. But you know, like this is the thing that is a little annoying is that all those convenience store chains have standardized all the product. So what it used to be cool is you would go to Hokkaido or you go to Okinawa and they would have like local coffees and all these local local brands. And now it's like you just go to 7-Eleven. Everywhere they have the 7-Eleven
brand thing. Okay. So it's a little more culture. Yeah. Fucking globalization. Well, that's kind of a theme within status and culture, right? Is that if everyone has access to everything, how can one utilize or leverage knowledge information because everyone is just like knows the same shit. Yeah. Our question for you is what is W David Marx's 50,000-foot view on cloud chasing? I mean cloud chasing is real and it's natural and we can't avoid it. It's like human nature.
It's human nature. I mean, it's human nature in the society that we're in. Okay. And I don't believe that the great apes have cloud chasing. So let's be clear about that. But I don't think it's a sin. I think people should not think about these things. It's like, oh, that guy's signaling for status. Everybody's signaling for status. If you're not signaling for status, you're also signaling for status. How do you signal for status? Yeah. By writing a book being like,
I know all the shit. Oh, you're doing that. I know what that is. Oh, I literally wrote the book on it. So I'm good, bro. So that was my move. But no, I think everybody's got status moves. There is cloud chasing. It's just how everyone has a variable sense of how much they want and what they want to do. But my point is that culture kind of comes out of that competition. And some of
the competitions good for culture, right? It's cool. Like when people were trying to outdo each other, when Glynno Brian's try to outdo everybody in the 80s, they're like, oh, I know this band before you do. And he didn't. He did outdo everyone by the way. And that was good for culture. So I was the place I'm staying. My friend had a copy of Madonna's book Sex. Yes. I've seen a long time and it's like actually even in our world of hardcore pornography, it's
actually way more. You got a route. Then I think I'm not going to I'm not going to state that on the record. But I got to use your bathroom. You're like, wow, vanilla ice holding Madonna. Yeah. There's a lot of vanilla ice in there, which people don't remember. But but the whole thing is like she's referencing Maplethorpe in all the downtown New York stuff in a way that was really provocative for culture. Yeah. Even as a kid, I remember being this huge crazy controversy.
She was like the most famous person in American. She made a borne. Yeah. She was like the most famous person in America who was like, I'm going to bring downtown New York, go to the brine and to the masses. And so like that that kind of thing is like cloud chasing at that level. And you know, I don't think Glynno Brian would say he was cloud chasing. He was above it or whatever. But yeah, but he needs to find and surface the next cool thing. Yeah. That's no one else.
I get forward. And like I think that's the so I'm running this new book. That's a cultural history of the 21st century. And it's about kind of the failure of all 24 years. Yeah. And it's coming out next year. So there'll be a little bit of 2025 in it. But under the dictatorship of Trump is down. So how much real estate is podcasting getting in that book? Sorry. How much real estate is podcasting going to get in that book? Podcasting will get
some real estate. Now that you've mentioned that. If you had to summarize the first quarter century. Yeah. Of the 21st century. Yeah. Yeah. Let me talk about my man. I guess that's the thing. It's like everyone sold out and everything became so marketed from like the content creation itself became so templated. It's like all these streaming shows are pretty good. And they have this formula where you're like, yeah, I'll watch another episode. But then you watch the whole
thing. You're like, yeah, I was alright. It's a plus. And so everything's a B plus instead of people chasing really like extreme crazy thing. What a megalopolis. Sounds like it sounds like a swing. Yeah. Sounds like that is a big swing. Yeah. So there's a few or big swings. And but no studio wanted to get the finance and movie himself right? Because no one was like, this is not going to be. Yeah. And there's just also used to be more stuff where,
I mean, like I was just running about chocolate rain the days on day. It's all chocolate. It's all like, okay. So this thing, this crazy song is like an internet hit. And and Dr. Pepper's like, you want to do cherry chocolate rain? Don't you? He's like, hell yeah. I like, you know, he sells out like 10 seconds. Right. And so no, there was no sense of like, you know what cool? I'm just doing this for my people. It's not really for everybody. And so I think the
internet because the the audiences is immediately global. Yeah. And if someone comes to you, it's like, here's this plate of money. Like no one said no. Yum. Everyone's due to some scary. Yeah. Listen, we don't fuck with Dr. Pepper, but we do fuck with Baja Blast, a Pepsi Co product. And if Dr. Pepper is also Pepsi Co, we fuck with Dr. Pepper. I think it is. I love Dr. Pepper. Is it? Okay. I think I think you're the Mr. Pib. Oh, that is one
I'm thinking of. Yeah. We prefer medical professionals. Are you a cultural Marxist? Not in not Marxism like communism, but like culture is propelled by the machinations of just like economic. This is this can go really granular. Let's get deep, baby. I think like there's a lot of really insightful cultural theory that looks at the role of economics and economic structure
and class structure on on the culture that comes out of it. And most certainly in status and culture, I write about how classes battling each other creates culture and creates different aesthetics. So I totally into that. So even that white people stealing from poor people to make culture. Yeah. And that part also is so appropriation. I mean, and it was a huge change in culture in the 20th century that some white kid would be like, I'm going to get clout from going to this
jazz club that you never heard of, right? Instead of, I'm just in this totally elitist white world. And so coolness was this revolutionary status change, right? All that is fine. The thing that I'm not like a political Marxist in the sense that I think all the status stuff exists without even capitalism, right? Really? And so you don't need specifically capitalism to have people vying for status. Like that's a layer under the economy. It's just that capitalism pushes it
to certain directions. So extremes, sorry? To the extremes. Yeah. To the extremes. Or just also to the lowest common denominator. And that's the part that's sad. And the thing with AI too now. That's also an extremes as south as possible. Yeah. So AI and capitals are both pushing things to be as bland and conventional as possible. And the whole part point of art and the whole point of criticism to like before this optimism stuff was just be like, let's all celebrate the stuff
that isn't lowest common denominator here. And part of that is talking shit about like stupid cookie cutter or so. Right. Things. And hating. Yeah. Hating is critical. And interesting. And so like I think they're beginning to hear it. The pop-dum is moment became kind of like, hey, don't hate on Ashley Simpson just because she's lip syncing. Right. And so it's like, well, it's like, well, what's the point of being a singer if you can't even see it? And then it was like,
and you know, I'm running about this now in the book. It's like, well, then maybe you don't even need a singer. So Paris Hilton is like a pop star who doesn't even see stars are blind is a fucking certified bank. I will not give that shit a whole chapter in your book. When Paris stars are blind, which you wrote within a Cousin guitar as an author. No, I read Paris Hilton's autobiography. Oh, wow. How's that? And you know, I think she wants you to think,
I'm so much more complicated than you think I am. And you do think that. And then you get to the end. You're like, you were the most psychopathic Machiavellian person. Because the whole thing is like, you know, you can't really criticize Paris Hilton because Paris Hilton's like, it's like a social construct. Yeah. Like the idea of Paris Hilton. I'm doing a bit everybody. I'm bigger than Jesus. But do you think that there's any sort of backlash to the notion that everything, like you
said, is served up immediately to a globalized audience. It can be the biggest thing at the moment. You know, you have movies that are like created in America, but knowing that they need to find an audience in China. So we're not going to have any like sex scenes. Do you think there's a backlash that now where it's like, you know, somebody wrote about how challengers is like such a sexualized
movie. And you don't see that in Hollywood anymore. Or like John Caramano was saying that kids in fashion now, they don't like, they find one thing and they go super deep because they have the information and the access to like infinite imagery and infinite references on this like one super super super specific thing. Right. Do you think there's a backlash to the lowest common denominator of like culture? Yeah, that is happening currently. Yeah, but it's not really resulting in a movement.
Like it could like I'm optimistic. I do think that we hit some sort of wall with do we want more technology in our lives. And I think people are starting to be like, nah, we're good. Like we strike. We got all we need. And AI, I think everyone's like, great, it's just going to take over culture and people like, this is terrible. So it's going the other direction. I could see it going that way. I mean, I thought Dune was good. Like that just good. No, it's great. I love the
end of the clarify. And it was, but it was also like it was science fiction for adults. Right. Well, the source material is incredible. So like it's exactly, you know, so I think there's some good signs and you know, again, with with craft culture with like physical goods, things are moving in the right direction, right? Like there's more people making high craft artisanal things than ever before in the history of the world.
Definitely. So that's all great. But you know, like the thing, when did John Caremon say this? What do you say a few months ago when he was on the pod? I don't know. Okay. So like, I think people are going really deep in. Okay. So what I worry about is like, some kids like, oh, I really want to know about a mod culture. Sure. They're like, they spend the day learning everything about mod culture. And then the next day they're like, today I'm learning about,
oh, they move on grunge or whatever. And they just move on. And then it doesn't really stick. And so the first the rock abilities that are still 65 years old, yeah, totally rocking out in hard to do. And this is the thing that like I also also have a thinking about, which is if you think what is one of the biggest sources of slang these days, it's drag queen culture. Sure. Right. And drag queen culture is intense and the people are in it. And it's not easy to be in that world. And so the
David is mother. Yeah. Mother is mothering. So the problem is like, if people are skirting around, like I'm deep on this today. And oh, there's this, I think I talked about this in the book. There's this like wiki aesthetics wiki that's like, here's every aesthetic in the world. So it's like college core. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so you can just like bounce. I'm like, today I'm college core. And tomorrow, um, cheesehead or whatever it is. And, uh, is that bad?
I it's from some sort of like, uh, graduate thesis, like postmodernism and that's all fine. Food kind of. Yeah. But it doesn't create the stickiness and the thing about culture that the the culture that really shows up and people like, whoa, like we got to pay attention to this because it seems authentic. It's like a group of people isolated who get really into something. And then when they get really into it, it comes out the other end really weird. And they seem like we don't
care about your mainstream thing. We're just our thing. Well, so then how do you find things that are like stick to your rib or to use a James term to that tickles your pickle? Like how do you discover stuff? Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't know if there's a systematic way to do it. And then also we all are omnivores to now. Like there's nobody who's just like, I only listen to rock ability because you just like, what's wrong with you? And so like, I like, dude, I like a hundred
gacks. Yeah. And there's so many people on my hundred gacks are great. And they're just like, what is wrong with you? Like, but also listen to like jazz. Like, I like jazz. I listen to a hundred gacks. It's the notes they don't play. And so because of heroin, it's the hyper they don't pop. So it's, how do you find some? I don't know how to find stuff. No, but also at a certain age, or you just like kind of settled into like, you're like, I like what I like. No, I always,
I want to be entertained. Okay. So I want things with, I want things that with stimulus. And I would love them to be new. I'm discovering things through the internet, through like Instagram and fucking Twitter holes and shit. You're like, never on IG. I feel like you don't really use it. I don't use it to be like, here's my fit back. Okay. So here's a really good example. Like IG is great. If you, so I make music and I like,
I have synthesizers. If you want to find like the weirdest new synthesizers, IG is great. Because there's like people playing with it. There's the brands themselves being like, here's this thing. And then there's all these tutorials of people showing themselves making music that just like you want to put a gun to your head. And that's like, it could just all the lowest common denominator stuff. So it's like Instagram can be a discovery mechanism and also can just be the worst
of like bland. I'm just going to make things that sound, I mean hit a button and it's going to be just like, right, your own. Yeah. Could you maybe quickly settle a debate that we've had on the show? Sure. And I'm very curious where you stand on this. Is good taste inherent or can it be learned? Absolutely. It can be learned. Can be taught. It can be taught. It can be learned. So the whole thing is, let me break down good taste for you. It's four categories.
Oh, first knowledge. Oh, knowledge. Yeah. What does she say? Umami, sweet sour. That's six today. Sorry. Money. Okay. So knowledge. And so when you say there's, you know, old money people who have good taste, it's because they grew up and it's just around them. Like they don't have to learn it. The osmosis is the osmosis. Um, they know how to talk. They know how to move. They know how to wear all that. But you can learn that knowledge. The second is what I call, uh,
why I'm a congruence so that everything fits together. Like you got to know not only what are the brands or what are the things, but how do they fit together? So you could be somebody who dresses this way, but the car is going to kind of all imagine the home and like you shouldn't be living in a hobble and they have a Porsche outside, right? It's all got to be rolling your remover back to 36 J or wearing your rent, right? Because you have no bed frame. Right. Uh,
the third is some sort of originality. Okay. Like you got to break out at some point, but that's like late in this thing game. Like you want to learn as much as you can, and then you want to take one little move where people are like, oh, that's new. Yeah. And then the fourth is authenticity, which is that at the end of the day, it's got to tell you a story. And then I think that's a form of for good taste. And that can mean the good taste comes from,
like someone could be really the hip hop and have great taste. And someone could be really in the streetwear or someone could be really into prep. Like there's not a world in which there's one good taste now, right? There's a lot. But it can be taught, but you have to, you also, so it's a long process. Yeah. That like getting through all four of those takes a journey without
a destination you might say exactly. And so I mean, the thing that people, I think the United States and Japan one big difference is in like take bands, like I think when I was growing up being in, like, Raj bands is immediately be like, I need original material. And in Japan, it's like, well, we're going to be a radio head cover band for five years. And then at some point we'll do other things. And I think if you're like a young kid trying to learn how to dress well, like,
don't try too hard to pull off like, I'm gonna do this new thing. Just learn the basics. Keep your head down. Oh, these jeans as a shirt. I saw that in so how it was horrible. Yeah. You know, and someone, someone who can pull that off, can maybe pull it off. No, certain things. You know, so you, you could pull the jeans off of your arms and wear them properly. Maybe you can wear the jeans like a, as a sweatpants.
I don't know, but the point is like, just don't try so hard to be original. And you got to fuck up. You got to fall down to get back up. I agree with that. I get knocked down. I think get back up again. It's the Trump a Wamba, Trump a Wamba. Philosophy is actually what informs all good taste. They did not do that song just to make the money. They did the song for the philosophy. But drink a vodka drink. Yeah. Yeah. So I think taste can actually
be taught, but you got to, you got to have the capacity to learn. That's a tub of thumping answer, my friends. Yeah. Thank you. I want to ask you a question about arguably one of the most tasteful men in modern society. Nego. Yep. How do you start working with Nego? So I wrote my senior thesis in college about a bathing ape. Wow. In this one. In 2001. And so that just seems to like way by and where babe. Well, no. So in 98, I was in Tokyo and I discovered babe. And I was like, well,
and just on a personal level, like, this is so cool. But I went back to school and I was talking to my professors. And I was like, oh, yeah, this crazy thing. I waited a line three hours by teacher and they were like, oh, that's your thesis. Oh, shit. And I'm like, I can't, guys, I can't do this as my thesis. It's just close before. And everyone was really supportive. And I got like a scholarship to go sick, like do the research. And so I showed it back up in 2000.
And did a bunch of research. And I had I had asked Nego for an interview and he was just at a town or something. So he couldn't do it. Sure. Sure. Sure. Oh, yeah. I'm busy that weekend. Yeah. I know. I'm also busy that other weekend. And so, uh, oh, also just a sidebar. In 99, uh, this was a time in young people will not understand this, but no brands had web pages in 1999. So I had made with this guy, Mark, the first unofficial bathing a web page. Wow. And page,
a fan page, a nine. But there was the only thing on the internet that looked authoritative about a bathing a traffic look and like, yeah, I don't know. And it was hosted on my university server. Which is funny. But like New York Times, and you can go read this article from 99, they wanted to write about bathing ape. And so they, they couldn't get anyone on the record about it. And so they called me and I was like, yeah, I'll do it. I'll take this interview. I'm the expert.
So I did this interview and I'm quoted in the piece. And then stash and feature who ran Recon, which was like the only store that sold it. We're just like, who the fuck do you think you are? And at the time was like, wow, it's kind of scared of them. But it was, yeah, like what was I doing? That was like, scarcity makes the heart go fonder. And that's like an amazing article, because it's like, I heard it. The artist Rostar is quoted it and Eric Fattac, you have a lot of
quotes here. Yeah. You're 20 years old. Yeah. You told your story about a bizarre shopping trip to buy a simple $48 T-shirt, which in 1999 dollars, that's a lot. Finally, you're able to buy a show with an ape and the company's motto, ape, she'll never kill ape. Do you start a t-shirt? I do. And it's like, whoa, I have sentimental. I have a lot of vintage streetwear pieces in the basement. And some of them have just like gotten these weird stains that you can't get out anymore. I don't know
what they are. It's apes. There's a definite, there's a definite attempt to confuse the public, said Mr. Marx, 20 who set up an unofficial bathing a website when he was turned to Harvard for his junior year. He posts updates on where to find bathing ape clothing, buying tips and explanations like quote, Niko is the president and director of the label, but it is unclear whether he actually designs any of the clothes. It's like the secret society and there's not that much info about it.
And this is totally my misinterpretation of of everything. So it's got a jappy streetwear in a nutshell, right? This isn't just bathing ape. And like I, but the main point was like I was just looking online and online. This is like a desert in, you know, online. This is pregoor, which by the way, jappy's brand is still kind of hard to like find their websites like intelligible. But then it was basically like four websites that's like my bathing ape. So we were just
piecing together what we could find. I was wrong. And anyway, I felt very paranoid. It was what I say that like they were out to get me for what I'd done. And so I got to interview Niko in 2006 for nylon guys. Nice for guys. And that went pretty well. And then I kind of got in with this people. So did he know you at this point? He knew you as like the guy who's obsessed with babe. I hope he doesn't say this because I don't even know if he knows about me now. But breaking news.
I had done, I guess like when when I was doing amateur, I went to his people and said would he be interviewed? And he ended up not being interviewed, but he was supportive of the project. And then when it came out, I think he had read it or was familiar with it. And then I got to meet him a couple times. And then hard to cowboy. And then like the third meeting, they were like, Oh, do you want to join the board of directors for human made? Which I did not expect that was going to happen.
So I joined the board last year and the O2MO overlord. And it's it is it's an honor to have that journey. So is there something about Niko? Niko excuse me? That would surprise people. Now that you know him personally and you are in his employee, he is I mean, I think people always quiet and he doesn't miss. You know, I mean, well, he did miss an opportunity to take a photo with us at that. Oh, yeah. That was embarrassing. I think that he whatever you think of like his
depth of knowledge, it's beyond that. Like that's unfathomable. That's the thing that like always boasts me away, which is like, yeah, you got some five or ones or whatever. But it's like no, he's got everything. And it does the five of two's like I was there and we were talking about the Simpsons or something. He's like, hold on. He's like, I've got all the DVDs look. You know, whatever your aim is to don't know about that one. But like whatever you're into, he's
way more into that. Yeah. And it's it doesn't it is kind of like low key annoying that he's like knows everything. But he's sometime he's somehow just a nice guy. Be honest. Nice. Yeah. Cannego speak English. I think he can. I don't know if he can because I've translated for him before. Right. So it's since my official capacity was to speak English for him. I think he understands probably more than he. Okay. So listen to the podcast. He's like, he's like, show Hey
Otani in that respect. I've not seen Otani in the interview. But he's not speaking English, right? No, but I'm pretty sure he can like understand more than maybe he's like wanting. I mean, in general, no one got my, by the way, my Ipe Otani reference when I said, oh, it's a Japanese translator bet. I didn't get it either. Wow, dude. Honestly, this is why you're not in bezel 40 million. No, you have a hot rock. Let me just delete just a 20 question, 20 million yen.
So in your capacity as a translator for Nigo, who's the craziest person you've been a go between between you twice? Oh, really? So you're not like asking Yeet to take his shoes off when he comes into the house. No, I like. Nigo's got another personal assistant, Dan, who doesn't steal money in place bets. Yeah. He's the one mostly he does all that. I was just brought in for two specific interviews. Has there been a piece of wisdom or advice that you've cleaned off of Nigo?
That is like really stuck with you as like the best thing that you were able to absorb via osmosis from him? I mean, the thing that I've realized recently in working with a human maid is everything I know about taste kind of comes from him and how you ran babe. And so I'll sometimes be like, oh, that's a good idea. That's a bad idea or whatever. And before I could express it, he would express the same thing. And it's like, oh, because all my thoughts are just stolen from you.
So I do like, I don't think it's one thing. I just I think in the world has been inseptive by Nigo in the sense of like, I mean, listen to he's like some type of corral or someone talk about it. Yeah. You don't need me to say this. He doesn't need me to say this, but he really got something about what's to see was doing but then extended it into this whole other world. And you know, and I'm writing about this in the new book too, but like
jabmy streetwear infected the hip hop world and then infected. Well, infected makes it sound like a disease. Yeah. Okay. So jabmy streetwear is at the heart of the Wayne clips beef, right? Right. Right. Which became Drake push, which that became Drake Kendrick's. You know, so like, I should have known this but true. It all goes back to Nigo. It was about to be all back to me. Yeah. There was one of blame of fucking POC. Yeah. For real. So no comment on that.
Yeah. But yeah. So like, I think that his approach to taste and commerce and how they merge like everyone's been paying attention that has inherited his ideas on it. Do you think? I mean, I guess you're not on TikTok, but like, do kids do the do the zoomers and Gen Z? Like, do they appreciate and know like Nigo's influence, his level of influence? I don't know. Probably not, right? Because like, it did start in like the late 90s. I think you got to be a millennial or
geriatric millennial to understand him as the cultural brawmer, right? Yeah. I mean, does this sort of I guess it's like do you care if like, for all those? Well, if they're looking at, okay, if they're looking at Virgil, right? As like the guy. Virgil knew. Absolutely. And who did he kind of, you know, not like was inspired by learn from
Nigo, right? The family trees roots are Nigo. Totally. I don't know. I mean, I think about this like Michael McClaren or something like with somebody who, you know, none of this stuff starts without him either. Right. It does a 22 year old know who that is. Probably not. Like, but that's okay. Sex being, they can learn about him in 20 minutes on Wikipedia though. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the thing. And that was the kind of knowledge and name dropping. Go watch
the filth in the night. He's the bad guy in that movie. Oh, that's true. Yeah. But he had a store called Sex. Yeah. Check it out. But he had a store. It's not to be confused with him, but not his book before sex. It was let it ride. And then before that, it was let it rock. Sorry. And then it was called too fast to fast to live to young to die. And that's where this Japanese
brand cream soda ripped off the logo. Isn't there also not wacko Maria, but another Japanese brand that's kind of rooted in like American motorcycle culture that I think uses that logo or at least they have it like up on their wowny hunters. It's yes. Or neighborhood neighborhood. Yeah, neighborhood. It's their live laugh love for you know, Rose all day. Yeah. No, it's not like that. That all comes from a clear like streetwear in Japan. It's a mix of it's like McLaren doing the
anti hippie rock ability thing that becomes sex that becomes punk that becomes seditionaries. Right. And then that inspires Hiroshi Fujiwara. And then Stussy comes in. And so it's kind of like a mix of the American surf skate stuff plus the British street stuff. Where did McLaren get his shit from? Oscar Wilde. Is he just fully original? I think he was pretty original. And there's a big debate about like, you know, he and Vivian West would work together. Right. And then in his old partner,
there's like this real beat if you should read about it. And I don't I can't tell you what's true. But there's this whole thing where like we'll Vivian had all the ideas and he ripped her off. And now McLaren's former, I don't know if they're a wife or girlfriend is like no, no, Vivian ripped him off. It was only his ideas. So there's a big there's a big beef between them. No, this reminds me of a little bit of a gnome to garter type situation. I don't know the store in New York. That was,
I don't know anyway. I know the store, but I don't want to talk about people's personal life. Yeah, you for I know more than I already do. I know I was hoping that you could speak for me. Anyway, well, David, your last act in this trip to America is you come on to the only podcast matters. Yeah. But when you do make your way back here, what's the first thing you simply must do besides go to Target and buy some socks. Literally. And I've done this twice now. So it's a pattern.
I get out a JFK. I get on the air train. Yeah. I get off at Grand Central. And I walk to Sarge's the Jewish Delhi. And this time I got a Rubin last time I got I think it's called Sarge's favorite or something. And it's brisket with gravy and apple sauce on the potato lock use. And I got to get that. So I like, I'm a Jewish Jewish. Do you know? Not a big in Japan. Not available in Japan. Really? That's one that they haven't like. It's a yeah. Exactly.
And like, why was it wise and sons are saying, one of the San Francisco ones had opened a chain and then it didn't work. And it's got a good barbecue in Japan now. The barbecue's getting better. And I can also do I've gotten pretty good at doing ribs and work. So that's all fine. What about bagels in Japan? What's the status? There's one place in Shirogane that does good bagels, but like literally one. There's like a bunch of chains and they're terrible. But they're
not as a bagel in Japan. Sorry. There's as a bagel in Japan. I don't think those are good. I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying that's the license name. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's like North Face Purple label. No, but just for fun. Like a good corn beef hard half. Right. Okay. Okay. So I got to have Jewish jelly food and and and and cream. I can make it like cream, but it's it's it's fun. It's not the same. I had a root beer float the other day. It was fun.
All that kind of stuff. So it's like a child. Yeah. I got to eat that food and then I get on a plane. But that's about it. Okay. I like the other thing too. I was in I think it was in Paris last year or in London and it was kind of trying to think like what could you not even get in Japan? Like what brand? And you know, Drake's actually it's like hard to get in. That's surprising. Yeah. And that's some weird quirky thing. But so like going to Drake's is fun in London because it's
like why can't get this in in Japan. But like almost everything's available in Japan. And then I in the last 20 years have figured out how to do like every single food that I want to eat. And so like, okay, I wanted to read beans and rice. So my dad's from New Orleans. So I I cook a lot of stuff. So like, okay, I want to make red beans and rice. Well, I got to get the ham hawk. Well, there's no ham hawk, but I can find the one Vietnamese grocery that's selling the ham hawk
that go and then salt it myself or whatever. So I like I now have I culture my own buttermilk. Oh, wow. For example, you're a fucking good old boy. Yeah. So I'm going to south to exactly the east. So I can do all that now. I found the world plays with baby. Dude, why don't you open up a fucking Southern soul food spot in Japan? You kill it. Go crazy. Never say never. Yeah. And they'll let you do blackface over there. Well, I yeah, no.
So that is I have seen that it is. We talked about that on the like the Louis Armstrong clip that goes viral or James went to what do you Stevie Wonder Stevie Wonder? I'm feeling that that is there's there's a reduction in blackface, but I think it's thank God. It should be zero. I don't think it's zero. Right. It's not zero. What do you miss about when you're here? What's the thing you miss most about Japan? No, I'm going to worry about my physical safety. Oh, that's
sure. Okay. Take them. Yeah. All right. Nailed it. Yeah. For guys and girls lucky enough to go over there. Yeah. And by the way, the most fucking guy jeans I've ever seen in Japan. And this is like, you know, it's definitely like record, you know, setting tourism after COVID. The week has yet. I think literally April was the highest number ever. Nuts. What is the biggest mistake or faux pas you see foreign tourists make when they're visiting Japan? Being really loud.
Yeah. I'm floppin' real loud on the train. Yeah. Lawrence can't go there. And dressing way too casually. Oh, really? Just like slutty. Like sloppy. Sure. Don't show your stomach. Don't show your arms. Show your toes. Probably not. Yeah. So pretend you're in the middle east. I wouldn't go that far, but just dress respectfully. Have you had like, I don't know where you live in Tokyo necessarily, but like, have you had any local haunts like ruin because the fucking
honkeys started coming through? Okay. So for a long time, that was not an issue because everybody goes to this list. If you got a good issue, be like, I got a good one. I got a good, I got a good gain. So if you just kind of avoid those places and the main strips, usually we're fine. Yeah. And then because of TikTok, Instagram and all these travel vloggers, I went to this, this is some totally mom and pop cafe called Heckloon that is between Toronto, Mon and Shimbashi.
You would not go there unless you knew about it. And literally it was only neighborhood people. You walk in and it has a sign that says for smoking cigarettes, smoke up to three please. It's like that. It's that kind of place. Like you can go there. You can smoke three cigarettes and then get out. And they have a pudding, the jumbo pudding. And someone on one of these sites, and I don't know if it was in China or as TikTok, but they posted here's this pudding. And then
there's like a line every morning, 52 arrests trying to get the pudding. And so if you go after they've run out of the pudding, it's back to normal, like no one's there. But like the in the provider, it's like 75 and I was like, what what happened? He's like, I don't know. He's like, it's fine. I don't know. It's good. I'm happy for like anyone to come here, but I don't know. I don't even have a smartphone. But it's like, it's starting to creep into you. You just can't go
to a couple of really great places because the two are. And because the other thing too, you have to understand is a great establishment, like a cafe or restaurant in Japan has like 10 seeds. Right. Yeah. So if a hundred thousand people see it on TikTok and then like 10% go, like it's done. Yeah. It's a wrap. So that so there, I just wrote for the Atlantic about
the end of cultural arbitrage. And it used to be that like if you knew the place, you would get credit for like telling everybody, but now it's like, well, I'm going to get clout, but I'm going to ruin it. Yeah. So you got to balance it out. And so the double edged sword. So now there's like this term, like gatekeeping is back. And so the idea is like, don't tell people about your favorites. And I think in Japan, we are at a point where you have to be careful in Japan.
Like everyone, the mistake that I think people make is like finding the best sushi. Like that doesn't exist. Oh, yeah. That was the one other thing I was going to say, which is everyone shows up. I was like, I got to eat this tongue guts of place. And I got to eat this from in place. It's like, they're all good. Yeah. Like in America, the floor is here. The floor in Japan is here. You'll not have a bad meal. And so you don't got to like 99% of the ones you go to will be good
enough for you and just go and don't line up. My advice is go to any place that doesn't have any English reviews on Google. And it's going to be good. Yep. And just point at the menu and just be like that or use Google translate camera. I mean, it has really just like the curse of tourism in that everybody's chasing authenticity. And then by everybody chasing authenticity, it makes the places you know, authentic. And so it's just the par it's that paradox. But I did not felt that
way for a long time. And in the economy needs the support, I don't, as somebody who is a guest of a country, I think it's incredibly snobbish to be like, well, I'm here, but you can't come. Right. So like, I think people should go to Japan. And that's fine. It's just for the first time in the last 18 months, I felt like, okay, this is actually creeping into my lifestyle. Not to be presumptuous, but at this point now, you've been over 20 years, right? And your
new adopted home, my question for you, David, do you ever dream in Japanese? I don't dream in Japanese. I curse in Japanese. Like, what I'm driving and someone cuts me off. I'll like, my mind will just go to. Oh, no, no, it cuts you off in Japan. Come on. What are some good Japanese curses that you can just drop for us right now? I don't know if I'm going to do that. Okay. There's no one to drop. Oh, shinko. But for example, there's like all the streets in my
neighborhood are what you would consider in the United States one lane. Yeah. And they're two way. Yeah. And so like, there's a long street where if I go in and then some of the other sense coming in, like one of us has, it's like chicken and you back up. And so that guy backs up. And so I'm always like, so in the morning as I'm driving, there's always this SUV that comes from the side every time. It's like, oh, you again, you have a lawyer like the first 25
times I see you first. Yeah. Fucking crazy. I curse all the SUVs because the roads are so small. I get this G. I get the fuck out of here. Yeah. Get a hatchback. Because if you've got a ranger over that you don't need in the streets of Tokyo, you're just get a motorcycle, dude. I
enjoy the gang. So there was a there. This is kind of a sidebar, but I got there was I was somewhere like a corporate retreat thing and they had invited an ER doctor to tell us about like working on a stress because he has like these 20 hour days where he can't go to the bathroom or whatever. And I was like, oh, sorry, I know there's a lot of topic, but you've been in the ER for decades. What are the like behaviors you shouldn't do as a person? And he was like, oh,
don't drink too much. Don't do drugs. Don't drink. Don't be on a motorcycle ever. One out of three ain't bad, Lawrence. Never catch me on a motorcycle, folks. I'll tell you that much. What I thought what I thought remarkable last time was there was I was there for two weeks and I counted the number of times I heard a car horn beep on one hand in same. So this is a great example of also why not to like essentialize a culture because people like, oh, yeah,
Japan, I'm in so play them when beeps. I was reading some book about Tokyo in the 50s and it was like everyone is on their horn at all times. So like at some point they just basically told everybody stopped doing that. But it's not like some essential Japanese trade that's really people don't beat the horns. It's just that now the convention is you don't beat your horn. Okay. I'm always very slow. I'm always like, I think I cut me off two minutes ago and then I like
yeah, the late rage can't take the can't take the Pensacola out of the boy. David, how much money do you make? It's funny. I heard you ask somebody that last time I was like, do people answer that question? No, never. Well, sometimes, yeah, it depends. I don't know when this comes out, but we got some good answers recently. Yeah. Like tell me tell me what's a good answer that's not just like $1 figure. The best answer I thought was our boy Rob. Why see he is a black man and he's
like, well, I work in film and television and I'm going to tell you what I make. I know what I know that what I make is good. And this is what you should make whatever the color your skin is. But I know that you know, POCs they get taken advantage of where they're like underpaid for their labor. So he actually gave us an accurate answer. That's it. Yeah, that's cool. Another guy just
said, I make a shitload of money. And that was cool too. I like this. This is how I'll spend it is that if you're a young aspiring author or cultural critic or someone who wants to make money on culture, know that there is no money on culture. And when you see people who are living these baller lifestyles and their authors, that it's not from the books. What's it from? It's from trust funds or it's not or they have secret jobs. And so the thing is I had I had a job I didn't
talk about for a long time, which I worked at Google. And that pays a lot. That was your secret job. That finance that was like my motto was be your own trust fund. So it's like bars, you know, work the real job and then take the money and to pursue your hobbies. And we're you know, pursue your passion is a nicer way to say it. But like I wrote the books while I had a full-time job. Now totally burn myself out doing that. Yeah. And I like working in the ER some shit you might say.
But as I like I wake up I write for two hours. I do a full day's work. I come home and then I got consulting things on this I too. So I went too far and I went to put and I think like I've been burnt out trying and I quit in order to like take freelance and you know, I have this board seat and I have this new job that's a 50% role. So I'm like trying to find the right balance. But
I think what's important is that this whole industry is built on a fantasy of this lifestyle. And you see people's apartments and stuff and you're like, how do they afford that on doing this thing that doesn't see I don't understand what the revenue is. Now if you are on Patreon or Substack or something and those things have revenue streams then there you actually is revenue or something.
But I like I make a little money from my books every year and it's nice and it pays for I think the labor but it's not enough if you see photos of me in my house that did not buy the house. Right. Right. Right. Right. Have you ever been tempted besides the work for Google and YouTube? Have you ever been tempted to sell out? Does anyone come to play the money? I don't know because you talked about how like selling out is just like such an instantaneous, you know, no one gives
a second thought now. It is the norm, right? Has anyone come to you like, y'all give you this fucking huge bag if you come right copy for she in or something? I think the people the brands that come to me like I worked for Beams Plus and Kamakura shirts and like I love them. It's not it's like yeah, I will take the money and have fun with it. So I weren't you weren't paid in in Made to Measure shirts is what you're saying? No, I was paid it was paid money and we took the money
and you bought the made better shirts. It's kind of inefficient. It's not a good I'm a good customer at the place anyway, but like I because I do this very specific thing the brands that appreciate that thing were in the same wavelength. Sure. And so when they come to me with work it usually fits. So there hasn't been anyone who's come to me where I'm like, okay, this is just sell out work. I've been I've been blessed in that sense, but also none of that pays enough to live the baller
lifestyle. So anyway, so like it's young kids pay attention and ask hard questions where are these people's money coming from? And the thing too is like, you know, you asked about good taste and you know, in status and culture, there's some of the reason I wrote that book is to democratize that knowledge because if you grew up in a rich family, you know this stuff. Yeah, right. And if you didn't, you don't. And then you get out in the world and you're like, why am I
so rich getting richer? What the fuck? And so knowing this stuff is a Roth IRA. A Jewish IRA. A Jewish IRA. It's it's important to know these things. And so anyway, so I think and I contribute to it by having a corporate job and not talking about it. Right. And continuing like, oh, I'm just the menswear influencer. Just a guy. And it's not true.
It's like you have to have a real job. So the real job is play real money. And that is important for things like college education savings, paying mortgages and retirements and the very adult things. Besides these really adult things, what do you like to spend your hard earned money on? And besides synthesizers. I buy some stuff. I'm not like, I'm not a I don't have a collector mindset which is like people were like, see this guitar. This is a $57,000 guitar. You can't play it. Don't
even look at it. You know, that's my top thing. I like buying stuff that's a tool to do a thing. So like if I buy a synthesizer, I'm going to use I'm going to use your doer. Yeah. I you're aware of a doer. I buy books to read the books. Okay. And like sometimes I buy a lot of use books because I don't as long as the words are legible. That's all I care about. I don't I just I'm not a freak about I don't put anything on ice. Okay. Right. You're a user. Yeah. I use stuff. I believe it's
the term where your kicks. Yeah. Exactly. So I spend I spend money on pretty. I build a house. That building a house is expensive and takes time. So I did that. But like on the small stuff, I'm not I'm I'm on the stingy side. Okay. Everything. Yeah. Good sun, the boy. David, as someone who is literally an expert on menswear status culture culture, we would love to tap into that big brandy yours. Yeah. For just the last question we have for you. The only podcast
matters. Do you a user, a doer, a maker, creator, a craftsman? Do you have any constructed criticism you would like to give to us? Yeah. Free 99 consulting. Let's let's start with the good. Oh, here we go. Which is that's all the time we have folks. I mean, it's starting with fucking menswear. And it's like a lineage that goes to today. It's that you took this thing that is nascent like young energy menswear and you made it your own.
And it's a unique voice. And I do feel like if you're going to do something, only do it if it's a unique voice. Thanks. There is. This is the only bother starting a podcast. This is the only podcast that matters. But it's also like it's only podcast that's like this. Right. Sure. Right. And so I think that's what really matters. And you're very kind to a lot of guests who are not as aggro. Right. And so I don't ever kindness. So I like I don't have any negative feedback.
Oh, I love it. I appreciate that. 90 minutes is a lot to ask for people. It's a now or 45. But I'm sure that also people I just listen to 1.5 speed like it's such a that's crazy. That's crazy. We hear that from some listeners. And I just don't especially because of the agronis of this show sometimes. I'm like, I don't know how or why you would torture yourself. That's some guantanamo bay level shit to those listening at 1.5x right now. Why do you do that yourself?
You fucking moron. What are you doing? Like I think modern society creates so much anxiety. And there's nothing more anxiety driving driving than like listening to news at 1.5x and just like. So I don't know. So chop and screw us. Yeah. To us at 0.5x. Yeah. But that slowed down. Shout out each. No, it's great. I love the diversity. Appreciate it.
Appreciate it. Bring something new. And cool. Something new. Well, look, man, if a audion wants to start up the podcast marketing segment wants to fly such a Japan, bang my motherfucking line. Where can it get's volume? What would you like to plug? To plug by the books. I'm a Torah. How do you pants saved American style? I'm a Torah. That's like a you need to buy that. That is a must have for any. It's a foundational text.
And it's not. It feels like a it's a history. It's breezy. Stan isn't culture. Not breezy. I know. I got the fuck. Ruggish shit. I got the feedback. But it has sociologists. It kind of has the secrets to society if you want to know them. So they're in there, but it's a brainier read. Yeah. It's definitely brain. It's a slower brain. You read. Don't try to read it like all in one sitting. It's taken taken chunks. Okay. I have a newsletter at culture.goast.io. How
frequently are you? Yeah, that's the thing. I get I get well, because I'm writing a book now. And so it's like I get sucked into writing the book rather than doing my newsletter. So I haven't done something in about a month, but I try to do something every two weeks, but it's not bad. And then otherwise I'm on X formerly known as Twitter and Instagram. What are your handles? Tell the people W David Marx. Got it. All right. W David Marx. Thank you. Thank you.
Coming onto the living podcast matters for this lively spirited. Honestly, and again, I hope people had their pens out and we're fucking jotting down and taking notes like this was a college lecture, because this shit was big brain tier podcasting at one X or 1.5 X. Yeah. Chef, take us out. If you're in business, you probably have a website, but can your site handle your growth? How many visitors before your site slows down or crashes? What about storage and data security?
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