Nick Mott: This series was supported by Nick Mott: the Pulitzer Center. Amy Martin: Welcome to Thresholdv I'm Amy Amy Martin: Martin, and we're in the middle Amy Martin: of the fourth episode in our Amy Martin: series about the Arctic Amy Martin: National Wildlife Refuge. Amy Martin: We're focusing on Gwich'in Amy Martin: Voices this time.
Amy Martin: There's strong opposition to Amy Martin: drilling in the refuge among Amy Martin: the Gwich'in, and the primary Amy Martin: reason for that is their Amy Martin: relationship with one of the Amy Martin: keystone species of the Arctic, Amy Martin: the caribou. Amy Martin: I wanted to give you a sense of Amy Martin: what these animals are like. Amy Martin: So here's a little bit of tape Amy Martin: from my closest encounter with Amy Martin: caribou...
Amy Martin: I'm coming up to the gate. Amy Martin: Except they're not actually Amy Martin: caribou. Amy Martin: They're reindeer. Amy Martin: It's the same species, just Amy Martin: different subspecies. Amy Martin: I'm standing Amy Martin: in a herd of reindeer. Amy Martin: If you listened to season two Amy Martin: of our show, you might remember Amy Martin: Reiulf and Risten Amy Martin: Aleksandersen, a Sami family Amy Martin: in northern Norway.
Amy Martin: This is the moment when I met Amy Martin: their reindeer herd. Amy Martin: A few of the animals are Amy Martin: wearing bells around their Amy Martin: necks. Amy Martin: They're running past me, Amy Martin: milling around. Amy Martin: Reindeer and caribou are tall, Amy Martin: shaggy creatures that are in Amy Martin: the same family as deer and Amy Martin: elk.
Amy Martin: Both the males and females grow Amy Martin: big branched antlers, and Amy Martin: they're incredibly well adapted Amy Martin: to life in the far north. Amy Martin: They can smell the lichen that Amy Martin: sustains them through the cold, Amy Martin: dark months of winter, even Amy Martin: when it's buried under many Amy Martin: feet of snow. Amy Martin: And they know how to dig down Amy Martin: through the drifts to find it.
Amy Martin: They also grow two thick layers Amy Martin: of hair to help them stay warm. Amy Martin: They're so beautiful. Amy Martin: They're brown and gray, Amy Martin: white and tan and cream Amy Martin: and ivory. Amy Martin: The herd was swirling around Amy Martin: me in a big circle. Amy Martin: It felt like being in the eye Amy Martin: of a reindeer hurricane. Amy Martin: This is one of their defense Amy Martin: mechanisms.
Amy Martin: Kind of like how fish make Amy Martin: whirlpools when a shark Amy Martin: approaches. Amy Martin: Although clearly, I was no Amy Martin: shark. They didn't seem scared Amy Martin: of me at all. Amy Martin: Just curious and kind of Amy Martin: wound up by my presence.
Amy Martin: Reindeer and caribou are found Amy Martin: across the circumpolar North, Amy Martin: the Sami, the Nenets, the Amy Martin: Gwich'in, the Inuit Amy Martin: and other indigenous Arctic Amy Martin: cultures all have long Amy Martin: relationships with them. Amy Martin: Reindeer are usually Amy Martin: semi-domesticated, like this Amy Martin: herd I was in. Amy Martin: Sami families own their
Amy Martin: reindeer. They don't farm them Amy Martin: the way people farm cows or Amy Martin: pigs. Amy Martin: But they do exert some control Amy Martin: over where the herds go and Amy Martin: when. Amy Martin: That's not how it is with the Amy Martin: Gwich'in. Amy Martin: The caribou in northern Alaska Amy Martin: and Canada are completely Amy Martin: wild. Amy Martin: They go wherever they want, Amy Martin: whenever they want.
Amy Martin: And the Gwich'in don't herd Amy Martin: them, they hunt them Amy Martin: and they learn from Amy Martin: them. Dana Tizya-Tramm: Well, I think a good place to Dana Tizya-Tramm: start would be with our Dana Tizya-Tramm: oral history. Amy Martin: This is Dana Tizya-Tramm. Dana Tizya-Tramm: We speak of following Dana Tizya-Tramm: the Porcupine caribou herd to Dana Tizya-Tramm: their calving grounds in the Dana Tizya-Tramm: northeast coastal plain of Dana Tizya-Tramm: Alaska.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: And it is said that our Dana Tizya-Tramm: people follow them to learn Dana Tizya-Tramm: their behaviors. Dana Tizya-Tramm: And as we observed them, Dana Tizya-Tramm: we identified this Dana Tizya-Tramm: area as sacred, as we recognize Dana Tizya-Tramm: it to be, the wellspring that Dana Tizya-Tramm: drives ecosystems. Amy Martin: Dana is the chief of the Vuntut Amy Martin: Gwich'in First Nation of Amy Martin: the Yukon in Canada.
Amy Martin: He's talking to me over the Amy Martin: phone from his office in the Amy Martin: village of Old Crow, which is Amy Martin: north of the Arctic Circle Amy Martin: and very close to the border Amy Martin: with Alaska. Amy Martin: Dana was born in 1987, Amy Martin: the year before that pivotal Amy Martin: Gwich'in gathering. Amy Martin: And he sees himself as carrying Amy Martin: out the core instruction Amy Martin: that came out of that event: Amy Martin: protect the caribou.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: So the story goes, is that it Dana Tizya-Tramm: is this place, the Arctic Dana Tizya-Tramm: National Wildlife Refuge, or Dana Tizya-Tramm: as we call it, lizhik gwats'an gwandaii goodlit, Dana Tizya-Tramm: the sacred place where life Dana Tizya-Tramm: begins. Dana Tizya-Tramm: And it is here that we traded Dana Tizya-Tramm: half of our heart with half Dana Tizya-Tramm: of the caribou's heart.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: So in this way that we would Dana Tizya-Tramm: always be intrinsically tied Dana Tizya-Tramm: with one another to care Dana Tizya-Tramm: for one another and to know Dana Tizya-Tramm: where each other are. Dana Tizya-Tramm: This is so fundamental Dana Tizya-Tramm: to who we are. Amy Martin: Many different Gwich'in people Amy Martin: I spoke with referred to this Amy Martin: story of sharing a heart with Amy Martin: a caribou.
Amy Martin: It has different versions, I Amy Martin: think, but they're all an Amy Martin: expression of unity with this Amy Martin: animal. Amy Martin: Mutual support and Amy Martin: a shared fate. Amy Martin: Dana says this very Amy Martin: old story is borne Amy Martin: out by modern science. Amy Martin: Caribou have evolved to be able Amy Martin: to digest the relatively Amy Martin: few plants that can survive in Amy Martin: the harsh Arctic environment.
Amy Martin: Their bodies are able to draw Amy Martin: nutrition out of lichen Amy Martin: and tough cotton grass. Dana Tizya-Tramm: And the caribou carry these Dana Tizya-Tramm: nutrients like a great Dana Tizya-Tramm: ebb and flow from a heartbeat Dana Tizya-Tramm: across our nation, Dana Tizya-Tramm: giving life to the Dana Tizya-Tramm: people and to the animals of Dana Tizya-Tramm: this area.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: And they've been doing it for Dana Tizya-Tramm: 2.1 million years, far Dana Tizya-Tramm: more efficiently than anything Dana Tizya-Tramm: that man has done. Amy Martin: But over the last 20 of those Amy Martin: years, caribou herds across Amy Martin: the polar north have faced Amy Martin: precipitous declines. Amy Martin: They've gone from nearly 5 Amy Martin: million animals to just over Amy Martin: 2 million in 2 decades.
Amy Martin: Many herds in Alaska and Canada Amy Martin: are at all time low numbers Amy Martin: since record keeping began. Amy Martin: And one of the primary reasons Amy Martin: for that is climate change. Amy Martin: According to the 2018 Arctic Amy Martin: Report card, put out by the Amy Martin: National Oceanic and Amy Martin: Atmospheric Administration.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: And especially in a time Dana Tizya-Tramm: when their lands are greatly Dana Tizya-Tramm: changing, we need Dana Tizya-Tramm: large areas of lands Dana Tizya-Tramm: to help all of our animals Dana Tizya-Tramm: survive. Amy Martin: For Dana and many other Amy Martin: Gwich'in people, there's really Amy Martin: no distinction between helping Amy Martin: the animals survive and keeping Amy Martin: their culture alive.
Amy Martin: They're completely interlinked, Amy Martin: going way, way back Amy Martin: to when the first people Amy Martin: migrated into North America Amy Martin: from Asia over the Bering Land Amy Martin: Bridge at the end of the last Amy Martin: Ice Age. Amy Martin: In fact, there's growing Amy Martin: consensus that the earliest Amy Martin: evidence of human habitation on Amy Martin: the continent is in Gwich'in Amy Martin: territory close to where Dana Amy Martin: lives in the Yukon.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: There's actually an Dana Tizya-Tramm: archeological site Dana Tizya-Tramm: just downriver from our Dana Tizya-Tramm: community that implies Dana Tizya-Tramm: evidence of our existence Dana Tizya-Tramm: to about 24,000, Dana Tizya-Tramm: 27,000 years ago. Amy Martin: It's a place called Bluefish Amy Martin: Caves. Amy Martin: It's named for the Bluefish Amy Martin: River, which flows into the Amy Martin: Porcupine River.
Amy Martin: And like Dana said, Amy Martin: archeologists have found Amy Martin: implications of human presence Amy Martin: in these caves dating back Amy Martin: at least 24,000 Amy Martin: years. Amy Martin: One of the animals those people Amy Martin: were almost certainly relying Amy Martin: on to survive was the caribou.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: So from these ancient Dana Tizya-Tramm: beginnings, we have lived Dana Tizya-Tramm: with our brother vadzaih, Dana Tizya-Tramm: caribou, and they Dana Tizya-Tramm: have taught us many of the Dana Tizya-Tramm: access points, navigations Dana Tizya-Tramm: of lands, but also Dana Tizya-Tramm: the carrier of our cultures, Dana Tizya-Tramm: our dances, even our Dana Tizya-Tramm: drum songs.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: So even today, Dana Tizya-Tramm: though, the six year olds in Dana Tizya-Tramm: my community, when they draw Dana Tizya-Tramm: pictures at school with their Dana Tizya-Tramm: crayons, they're drawing Dana Tizya-Tramm: pictures of their caribou Dana Tizya-Tramm: camps, of working Dana Tizya-Tramm: with caribou.
Amy Martin: Listening to Dana was just Amy Martin: another reminder for me of Amy Martin: how much time we used to spend Amy Martin: as a species watching Amy Martin: and learning from animals Amy Martin: and how much that Amy Martin: observation involved moving Amy Martin: with them through the world. Amy Martin: But today, humans aren't Amy Martin: as free to migrate in response Amy Martin: to climate or season or Amy Martin: relationships with animals.
Amy Martin: Our migration patterns are Amy Martin: decided by our governments. Amy Martin: The Porcupine caribou migrate Amy Martin: back and forth across Amy Martin: the U.S.-Canada border. Amy Martin: But the Gwich'in cannot. Amy Martin: And when they want to advocate Amy Martin: for that herd, they have to Amy Martin: appeal to two different Amy Martin: governments.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: So this is a very compounding Dana Tizya-Tramm: issue for a Dana Tizya-Tramm: Canadian indigenous people Dana Tizya-Tramm: as we work very Dana Tizya-Tramm: hard to continue Dana Tizya-Tramm: our way of life Dana Tizya-Tramm: in a modern era. Amy Martin: It's hard enough for rural Amy Martin: Alaskans to get heard in Amy Martin: Washington. Amy Martin: The challenges are ten times Amy Martin: greater for the Gwich'in people Amy Martin: who hold Canadian passports.
Amy Martin: And one of the arguments that Amy Martin: gets repeated in the halls of Amy Martin: government is that the Gwich'in Amy Martin: are blowing this whole thing Amy Martin: out of proportion, that oil Amy Martin: development really isn't a Amy Martin: threat to them or the caribou. Amy Martin: As evidence for this, people Amy Martin: who support drilling point to Amy Martin: the central Arctic herd.
Amy Martin: They're sort of like neighbors Amy Martin: to the Porcupine herd, and Amy Martin: they historically used the Amy Martin: Prudhoe Bay area as a calving Amy Martin: ground.
Amy Martin: Almost everyone I spoke with on Amy Martin: the oil side told Amy Martin: me that the population of this Amy Martin: herd has gone up in the years Amy Martin: since drilling began at Amy Martin: Prudhoe, and that this means Amy Martin: the Porcupine herd could be Amy Martin: just fine as well, if Amy Martin: the coastal plain of the refuge
Amy Martin: gets developed. I Amy Martin: wanted to make sure I really Amy Martin: understood this claim and the Amy Martin: responses to it, so Amy Martin: producer Nick Matt and I dug Amy Martin: deep into the data, and here's Amy Martin: what we learned. Amy Martin: First, some numbers. Amy Martin: The population of the central Amy Martin: Arctic herd was around 5000 Amy Martin: animals when development at Amy Martin: Prudhoe Bay began, most sources Amy Martin: say.
Amy Martin: That's compared to more than Amy Martin: 20,000 animals the last Amy Martin: time they were counted in 2016. Amy Martin: But just a few years before Amy Martin: that, in 2013, Amy Martin: the herd was up to more than Amy Martin: 70,000 animals. Amy Martin: And that leads us to an Amy Martin: important point here.
Amy Martin: The size of a caribou herd Amy Martin: can vary wildly over even Amy Martin: just a few years, and Amy Martin: the factors influencing Amy Martin: population size are complex. Amy Martin: Predators, food availability, Amy Martin: disease, weather, and climate Amy Martin: can all play a role, in Amy Martin: addition to human impacts and
Amy Martin: other things. Caribou Amy Martin: use different strategies to Amy Martin: respond to the various Amy Martin: pressures they face in the Amy Martin: wild, and one of their most Amy Martin: effective tools is movement. Amy Martin: That's what happened with the Amy Martin: central Arctic herd.
Amy Martin: As development grew at Prudhoe Amy Martin: Bay, they shifted their calving Amy Martin: grounds to other areas, and Amy Martin: it appears that they found Amy Martin: places where they could get Amy Martin: enough to eat and where they Amy Martin: had enough freedom from Amy Martin: predators to keep their herd Amy Martin: going. Amy Martin: But the landscape is very Amy Martin: different for the Porcupine Amy Martin: herd.
Amy Martin: If they want to get away from Amy Martin: development on the coastal Amy Martin: plain, they don't have very Amy Martin: many good options where they Amy Martin: can find enough to eat and Amy Martin: where they won't easily be Amy Martin: eaten by something else. Amy Martin: And that's why we have to use Amy Martin: great caution in comparing Amy Martin: these two herds.
Amy Martin: That's actually the word Amy Martin: scientists use in the Amy Martin: environmental impact statement Amy Martin: created by the government. Amy Martin: Caution. Amy Martin: They give a whole list of Amy Martin: reasons for why we can't Amy Martin: use the central Arctic herd's Amy Martin: response to oil development Amy Martin: as a clear analog for how Amy Martin: Porcupine Herd might be Amy Martin: impacted.
Amy Martin: It's kind of like with people, Amy Martin: you can't do a study on the Amy Martin: people of Vancouver say, Amy Martin: and assume that it will apply Amy Martin: to Seattle, too. Amy Martin: There are similarities between Amy Martin: the two cities, but there are Amy Martin: important differences as well. Amy Martin: There's a whole lot more we Amy Martin: could say about all the Amy Martin: complexities in the science
Amy Martin: here. But if we zoom out and Amy Martin: just look at the big picture, Amy Martin: two fundamental facts leap Amy Martin: out. Amy Martin: Caribou prefer habitat Amy Martin: with no human disturbance, Amy Martin: and.... Dana Tizya-Tramm: Every single Dana Tizya-Tramm: herd of caribou in Dana Tizya-Tramm: Canada is in major decline. Amy Martin: Dana is right about that.
Amy Martin: And although the causes for Amy Martin: those declines vary, there's Amy Martin: one species behind them all: Amy Martin: us. Amy Martin: Caribou herds thrive in big, Amy Martin: wild, cold landscapes. Amy Martin: And as we log and mine and Amy Martin: drill and build roads further Amy Martin: and further north and Amy Martin: warm the climate, their Amy Martin: overall population is going Amy Martin: down. Amy Martin: That is undoubtedly Amy Martin: the long-term trend here.
Amy Martin: And for Dana, that's why it's Amy Martin: essential to leave the places Amy Martin: they have left undisturbed. Amy Martin: Places like the coastal plain Amy Martin: of the refuge. Dana Tizya-Tramm: In a time of anthropogenic Dana Tizya-Tramm: climate change, when Dana Tizya-Tramm: is it going to be enough? Dana Tizya-Tramm: And when are we going to start Dana Tizya-Tramm: appreciating the natural Dana Tizya-Tramm: systems and the animals?
Dana Tizya-Tramm: Just because nature does Dana Tizya-Tramm: not speak English does not Dana Tizya-Tramm: mean that it's not speaking. Dana Tizya-Tramm: And we strongly Dana Tizya-Tramm: hope that the world Dana Tizya-Tramm: sees this Dana Tizya-Tramm: issue as a mirror and Dana Tizya-Tramm: ourselves reflected in Dana Tizya-Tramm: it. And it's talking Dana Tizya-Tramm: to us about the imbalanced Dana Tizya-Tramm: approach that we're taking Dana Tizya-Tramm: to a balanced system.
Amy Martin: I asked Dana how it felt to Amy Martin: be on the Canadian side of the Amy Martin: border in December 2017, Amy Martin: when the bill passed that Amy Martin: opened up the refuge to oil and Amy Martin: gas development. Dana Tizya-Tramm: I remember that day very Dana Tizya-Tramm: clearly.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: After a long day in the office, Dana Tizya-Tramm: I went home and I watched Dana Tizya-Tramm: the video of Dana Tizya-Tramm: Donald Trump signing Dana Tizya-Tramm: the bill and Dana Tizya-Tramm: as he put his signature Dana Tizya-Tramm: to it and he specifically Dana Tizya-Tramm: mentioned opening up the Dana Tizya-Tramm: Arctic National Wildlife Dana Tizya-Tramm: Refuge, I could see Dana Tizya-Tramm: my elders, I Dana Tizya-Tramm: could see my ancestors,
Dana Tizya-Tramm: and I could hear the voices Dana Tizya-Tramm: of the youth because Dana Tizya-Tramm: they are everything. Dana Tizya-Tramm: It, it quite literally broke Dana Tizya-Tramm: my heart. Dana Tizya-Tramm: And I mourned Dana Tizya-Tramm: for our, Dana Tizya-Tramm: our way of life. Dana Tizya-Tramm: And I wondered when will my Dana Tizya-Tramm: people be seen as Dana Tizya-Tramm: a people and when Dana Tizya-Tramm: will our voice and perspective Dana Tizya-Tramm: be respected?
Dana Tizya-Tramm: But I went Dana Tizya-Tramm: through my short time of Dana Tizya-Tramm: mourning, which was probably a Dana Tizya-Tramm: couple of days, and began Dana Tizya-Tramm: picking myself up. Dana Tizya-Tramm: And nothing Dana Tizya-Tramm: gives me more power Dana Tizya-Tramm: than my community coming Dana Tizya-Tramm: together towards Dana Tizya-Tramm: the positives Dana Tizya-Tramm: of these issues.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: I'm very fortunate to have the Dana Tizya-Tramm: guidance of our elders Dana Tizya-Tramm: and along with the mandate Dana Tizya-Tramm: of the advocacy and education Dana Tizya-Tramm: of protection of these lands. Dana Tizya-Tramm: It was also said in the next Dana Tizya-Tramm: breath that this must be done Dana Tizya-Tramm: in a good way.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: And even if others choose Dana Tizya-Tramm: to be disrespectful, Dana Tizya-Tramm: the Gwich'in nation will not Dana Tizya-Tramm: be. Amy Martin: We'll have more after Amy Martin: this short break. Speaker: Hi Threshold listeners, do Speaker: you ever find yourself Speaker: wondering what businesses are Speaker: doing and what more they should Speaker: do to confront climate change?
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Dallas Taylor: Subscribe to 20,000Hz Dallas Taylor: right here in your podcast Dallas Taylor: player. Dallas Taylor: I'll meet you there. Amy Martin: Hey, Gideon! Amy Martin: Welcome Amy Martin: back to Threshold I'm Amy Amy Martin: Martin. And I'm back in Arctic Amy Martin: Village, Alaska, hoping to Amy Martin: catch up with Gideon James, Amy Martin: Sarah's brother, before he Amy Martin: sets off in his canoe to check Amy Martin: his fishing nets.
Amy Martin: I'd met Gideon Amy Martin: the day before, and when he Amy Martin: told me he was going to check Amy Martin: his nets at some point, I asked Amy Martin: if I could come along. Amy Martin: At 9:00 the next night, Sarah Amy Martin: came to tell me Gideon was Amy Martin: heading out- this far Amy Martin: north in the summer, it's late, Amy Martin: almost all night long. Amy Martin: So I grabbed my sound gear Amy Martin: and raced out to find him.
Amy Martin: I may very well have Amy Martin: literally missed the boat. Amy Martin: Almost, Amy Martin: but not quite. Amy Martin: I managed to catch Gideon just Amy Martin: as he was about to put the Amy Martin: canoe into the water. Gideon James: Hey there. Amy Martin: That's good with me. Amy Martin: I'm glad we get to go. Amy Martin: Do you want me to push off? Gideon James: That's alright. I can do it I think. Gideon James: And you Gideon James: know how to swim? Amy Martin: A little bit.
Amy Martin: Hopefully, I won't need those Amy Martin: skills. Amy Martin: Gideon is a couple of years Amy Martin: older than Sarah. Amy Martin: And other than struggling to Amy Martin: hear well, he shows no signs Amy Martin: of slowing down. Amy Martin: He expertly maneuvers us out Amy Martin: into the calm waters of the Amy Martin: creek and paddles us toward Amy Martin: a net that he strung up across Amy Martin: it. Amy Martin: We haven't gone very far when Amy Martin: he spots trouble.
Amy Martin: A muskrat. Amy Martin: Muskrat. A muskrat right there. He's fooling around with my Amy Martin: net. He chew my net. Amy Martin: I'm mad at him. Amy Martin: But soon, we've got other Amy Martin: things to focus on. Amy Martin: There's one! That's a big one Amy Martin: down there. Amy Martin: Gideon paddles us up close to Amy Martin: the net, and I look down into Amy Martin: the clear water. Amy Martin: We've got at least two more, Amy Martin: I think. Maybe three more.
Amy Martin: He starts to pull the net up. Gideon James: Like I hear something. Amy Martin: And soon he's holding a huge Amy Martin: northern pike in his hands. Gideon James: We got a goddamned monster. Amy Martin: It is a monster. Gideon James: Monster! Amy Martin: Yeah. Amy Martin: My God. Gideon James: We Gideon James: got a monster there. Amy Martin: We spent about a half hour Amy Martin: pulling fish out of the net. Gideon James: Two together.
Amy Martin: And then he paddled the canoe Amy Martin: back to the bank. Amy Martin: We walked back to his house. Amy Martin: Each of us carrying a big Amy Martin: bucket full of fish. Amy Martin: Gideon is a maker and Amy Martin: a fixer. Amy Martin: In one room of his house, he's Amy Martin: preparing a boat motor next Amy Martin: to a table where he's making Amy Martin: delicate jewelry. Amy Martin: It seems like there's nothing Amy Martin: he can't do.
Amy Martin: A hand-painted sign over his Amy Martin: workbench says, "Think patient, Amy Martin: don't rush and Amy Martin: understand your work." Amy Martin: And another handmade sign with Amy Martin: a drawing of a drum on it says, Amy Martin: "Save Arctic Amy Martin: refuge." Amy Martin: We start talking about drilling Amy Martin: in the refuge and the jolly Amy Martin: tone that Gideon had when we Amy Martin: were out in the canoe quickly Amy Martin: changes.
Gideon James: We don't need to go to we don't Gideon James: need to go to the coastal Gideon James: plain. Gideon James: We don't need to do that. Gideon James: Do you think. Gideon James: They think that's progress. Gideon James: That's not progress. Amy Martin: Gideon is opposed to drilling Amy Martin: in the refuge for all kinds of Amy Martin: reasons. Amy Martin: He wants to protect the
Amy Martin: caribou. He's worried about Amy Martin: climate change, and Amy Martin: he does not see evidence for Amy Martin: the argument that development Amy Martin: is really improving the lives Amy Martin: of Alaskan native people. Gideon James: The issue is that Gideon James: is the cooperation rip off Gideon James: that's been that keep happening Gideon James: in our lives later this Gideon James: year. It is a puppet to that.
Amy Martin: He traces that disconnect back Amy Martin: to the Alaska Native Claims Amy Martin: Settlement Act or answer Amy Martin: the 1971 land claims Amy Martin: bill that we talked about a Amy Martin: couple of episodes ago. Gideon James: A steady land claims bill. Gideon James: The way it was designed Gideon James: is terrible.
Amy Martin: When he first heard about Amy Martin: ANCSA, Gideon says he Amy Martin: thought it was going to be good Amy Martin: for his community and all Amy Martin: indigenous Alaskans Amy Martin: because that's the way the Amy Martin: legislation was promoted Amy Martin: in places like Arctic Village. Gideon James: In the early 70s, I believe.
Gideon James: All the stuff that they were Gideon James: going to say, they're going to Gideon James: do that it was a promise Gideon James: of economic boom and Gideon James: better school Gideon James: and a better health program in Gideon James: Alaska, which never Gideon James: became legal.
Amy Martin: Gideon says he started to have Amy Martin: doubts about anchor in the Amy Martin: 1980s, when he learned Amy Martin: an important part of the origin Amy Martin: story that wasn't clear to him Amy Martin: from the start, and that Amy Martin: was that a key motivator for Amy Martin: the passage of the bill Amy Martin: was the movement of oil.
Gideon James: The government, Gideon James: in order to get a Gideon James: corridor for the oil pipeline, Gideon James: they have to make a settlement Gideon James: with it when they Gideon James: need it first. Gideon James: This is what happened. Amy Martin: To track what Gideon is saying Amy Martin: here, you need to know that Amy Martin: indigenous Alaskans had been Amy Martin: advocating for some kind of Amy Martin: land claim agreement for a long Amy Martin: time before ANCSA was passed.
Amy Martin: But the people in power who Amy Martin: were almost exclusively white Amy Martin: pretty much ignored them Amy Martin: until oil was discovered Amy Martin: at Prudhoe Bay in the late Amy Martin: 1960s. Amy Martin: Suddenly, a pipeline needed Amy Martin: to be built. Amy Martin: And Gideon's right. Amy Martin: That is what finally spurred Amy Martin: lawmakers to clarify Alaska Amy Martin: native land claims.
Amy Martin: It was to clear the way for oil Amy Martin: development and to sweeten Amy Martin: the deal, they made a lot of Amy Martin: promises about how life was Amy Martin: going to improve for Alaskan Amy Martin: native people. Gideon James: And here, you know, Gideon James: after 40 years, Gideon James: those things are not true. Gideon James: Yeah. Gideon James: Those things not true.
Gideon James: Today. Amy Martin: Gideon raised three boys, and Amy Martin: he says one of them was an Amy Martin: especially eager student. Gideon James: When he graduated from high Gideon James: school, he wanted to go to Gideon James: university, Gideon James: and he found out Gideon James: that he doesn't, he Gideon James: doesn't have Gideon James: the level. Gideon James: He doesn't have the standard. Gideon James: It just. Gideon James: It just killed the dream.
Gideon James: I mean, I hate to say it, but Gideon James: that's what goes on all Gideon James: over. Gideon James: There's a lot of bright kids in Gideon James: the state. Gideon James: You know, our kids need to Gideon James: receive a good education. Gideon James: They need to have good health Gideon James: program. Gideon James: They don't cut it. Gideon James: They don't have it.
Amy Martin: When Gideon says that's what Amy Martin: goes on all over, I Amy Martin: think he's talking about the Amy Martin: big achievement gaps among Amy Martin: Alaska students. Amy Martin: For instance, in 2019, Amy Martin: just 9% of Alaska Amy Martin: Native and American Indian Amy Martin: eighth graders were scored as Amy Martin: proficient in reading in Amy Martin: national testing. Amy Martin: That's compared to 33% Amy Martin: of their white counterparts in Amy Martin: the state.
Amy Martin: So for Gideon, Amy Martin: the idea that drilling for more Amy Martin: oil is going to lift up Native Amy Martin: people in Alaska is Amy Martin: almost insulting. Amy Martin: They've had 40 years to do Amy Martin: that, he says, and it hasn't Amy Martin: happened.
Amy Martin: From his perspective, drilling Amy Martin: in the Arctic National Wildlife Amy Martin: Refuge looks like another bad Amy Martin: idea in which outsiders Amy Martin: reap the rewards and the Amy Martin: Gwich'in feel the losses. Amy Martin: And that's what climate change Amy Martin: looks like to him, too.
Gideon James: Yeah. One of the things that's Gideon James: happening as we look out the Gideon James: window right now, you see part Gideon James: of the Gideon James: leaves are growing up. Gideon James: It never, it never grew that Gideon James: fast. Amy Martin: It's called Arctic greening Amy Martin: and scientists have been Amy Martin: tracking it for decades.
Amy Martin: As the climate warms, Amy Martin: vegetation is growing taller Amy Martin: and thicker in many parts of Amy Martin: the far north. Amy Martin: That's partly why there have Amy Martin: been more wildfires in the Amy Martin: Arctic in recent years. Gideon James: It never used to be like that. Gideon James: And permafrost. Gideon James: They're melting. Gideon James: You know, Gideon James: they're melting.
Gideon James: You know, you and I Gideon James: know that climate change is Gideon James: happening and Gideon James: we just can't sit down and talk Gideon James: about it. We need to do Gideon James: something about it. Gideon James: We need to do something about Gideon James: it. Trimble Gilbert: Very sad thing to see Trimble Gilbert: when I grew up here. Trimble Gilbert: There's a lot of birch, ducks, Trimble Gilbert: ptarmigan and, Trimble Gilbert: you know, swallow.
Trimble Gilbert: You can see a thousand of them Trimble Gilbert: around here. Trimble Gilbert: And you can hear it every Trimble Gilbert: day. Amy Martin: This is Trimble Gilbert. Trimble Gilbert: Now it's Trimble Gilbert: going away. Trimble Gilbert: Very sad. Trimble Gilbert: There's some few birds Trimble Gilbert: around here. Trimble Gilbert: They're pretty quiet. Trimble Gilbert: Even up in springtime, Trimble Gilbert: they're up and when they sing Trimble Gilbert: with a clear voice.
Trimble Gilbert: And they, their voice, even Trimble Gilbert: not clear Trimble Gilbert: the way they used to sing. Trimble Gilbert: It's Trimble Gilbert: their voices change, Trimble Gilbert: just like my voice changed. Trimble Gilbert: Same thing. Amy Martin: Trimble and his wife welcomed Amy Martin: me into their cozy home in Amy Martin: Arctic Village.
Amy Martin: And as he and I talked in a Amy Martin: back room, I could hear their Amy Martin: children and grandchildren Amy Martin: stopping by and helping out in Amy Martin: the kitchen. Amy Martin: Trimble's first language is Amy Martin: Gwich'in. Amy Martin: He says he learned English in Amy Martin: his 20s and he's dedicated Amy Martin: a lot of his life to passing Amy Martin: on Gwich'in language and Amy Martin: culture to the next generation.
Trimble Gilbert: I'm the traditional Trimble Gilbert: chief here, Trimble Gilbert: and I'm also a Trimble Gilbert: minister. Trimble Gilbert: I'm elder, and I can Trimble Gilbert: say anything I want. Amy Martin: Even in his mid-eighties, Amy Martin: Trimble radiates strength Amy Martin: and also gentleness. Amy Martin: It's immediately clear talking Amy Martin: with him that his thoughts are Amy Martin: sourced from a deep place.
Trimble Gilbert: A lot of people, they Trimble Gilbert: want more to hear about the Trimble Gilbert: love and kindness. Trimble Gilbert: They're all looking for the Trimble Gilbert: good leaders. Trimble Gilbert: The one who really talk Trimble Gilbert: with good work Trimble Gilbert: given that to the nations. Trimble Gilbert: That's what I want to hear.
Amy Martin: Like Sara and Gideon, Trimble Amy Martin: grew up mostly out on the land, Amy Martin: learning all the skills he Amy Martin: needed to survive here from his Amy Martin: family and community. Trimble Gilbert: I don't think we're poor. Trimble Gilbert: But then we got everything Trimble Gilbert: we need Trimble Gilbert: and land and water Trimble Gilbert: and we still got a lot of Trimble Gilbert: animals to eat. Trimble Gilbert: So I feel like I'm we Trimble Gilbert: are very rich.
Amy Martin: And the foundation of that Amy Martin: wealth was and is Amy Martin: the caribou. Trimble Gilbert: I grew up with traditional Trimble Gilbert: food and Trimble Gilbert: I feel strong. Trimble Gilbert: A lot of people told me that Trimble Gilbert: too, and Trimble Gilbert: they ate their own food Trimble Gilbert: and a lot more energy Trimble Gilbert: for that day. Trimble Gilbert: Like food is not just like Trimble Gilbert: medicine for Trimble Gilbert: the Athabaskan up here.
Trimble Gilbert: So we Trimble Gilbert: know that history about that Trimble Gilbert: and we want to save Trimble Gilbert: whatever we've got here, like Trimble Gilbert: Porcupine herd. Amy Martin: I talked with Trimble for more Amy Martin: than an hour, and he brought up Amy Martin: food and health over Amy Martin: and over.
Amy Martin: He's very concerned about these Amy Martin: things because he's witnessed Amy Martin: what happens when non-native Amy Martin: food replaces traditional Amy Martin: diets.
Amy Martin: Numerous studies on indigenous Amy Martin: communities in the Alaskan and Amy Martin: Canadian Arctic, point to the Amy Martin: transition away from Amy Martin: traditional food as a source Amy Martin: of skyrocketing rates of Amy Martin: diabetes, anemia, Amy Martin: mental health struggles and Amy Martin: other health problems.
Amy Martin: Trimble remembers what it was Amy Martin: like when everyone ate food Amy Martin: they hunted and gathered Amy Martin: together as a community Amy Martin: from the land and water around Amy Martin: them. Trimble Gilbert: I'm talking about very healthy Trimble Gilbert: and strong people. Trimble Gilbert: Kids and all, all very Trimble Gilbert: healthy. I remember that.
Amy Martin: For the very first season of Amy Martin: our show, I reported on the Amy Martin: story of the American bison. Amy Martin: Of how abundant they once were Amy Martin: and how central they were and Amy Martin: still are to many indigenous Amy Martin: cultures.
Amy Martin: As Trimble was talking, I Amy Martin: remembered hearing Native Amy Martin: Americans I interviewed about Amy Martin: bison, telling me they'd Amy Martin: heard their grandparents and Amy Martin: great grandparents saying Amy Martin: things almost exactly like Amy Martin: what Trimble was saying about Amy Martin: the caribou. Trimble Gilbert: They are a healthy animal, Trimble Gilbert: and that's one Trimble Gilbert: of our main nutritions Trimble Gilbert: for the people.
Trimble Gilbert: With thousands of years, Trimble Gilbert: like I told you about when I Trimble Gilbert: was a kid. Trimble Gilbert: People are healthy people. Trimble Gilbert: It's a healthy food. Amy Martin: The near destruction of the Amy Martin: bison was part of the genocide Amy Martin: of Native American people. Amy Martin: And starvation is not only Amy Martin: a physical thing. Amy Martin: Cultures can be starved out, Amy Martin: too.
Trimble Gilbert: Without that caribou and I Trimble Gilbert: don't know how we will survive. Trimble Gilbert: It'll be hard for us. Amy Martin: In March of 2019, Amy Martin: Dana Tizya-Tramm also Amy Martin: made the connection to the Amy Martin: buffalo when he spoke at a Amy Martin: committee hearing in the U.S. Amy Martin: Congress. Dana Tizya-Tramm: I notice in the paintings on Dana Tizya-Tramm: your walls you have a Buffalo Dana Tizya-Tramm: people.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: While I'm proud to sit in front Dana Tizya-Tramm: of you today as Dana Tizya-Tramm: a caribou people. Dana Tizya-Tramm: As Gwich'in. Amy Martin: This is the same person we Amy Martin: heard in the first half of this Amy Martin: episode. The chief of the Amy Martin: Vuntut Gwich'in First Nation of Amy Martin: the Yukon in Canada.
Dana Tizya-Tramm: We have lived in balance with Dana Tizya-Tramm: the Porcupine caribou herd Dana Tizya-Tramm: since before any mark of modern Dana Tizya-Tramm: history, and now Dana Tizya-Tramm: development threatens to Dana Tizya-Tramm: destabilize all of this. Dana Tizya-Tramm: I am here today to testify Dana Tizya-Tramm: that this development on the Dana Tizya-Tramm: coastal plain amounts to the Dana Tizya-Tramm: cultural genocide of the entire Dana Tizya-Tramm: Gwich'in Nation.
Amy Martin: And there's another aspect of Amy Martin: the American bison story that Amy Martin: seems relevant here. Amy Martin: Long before the bison were Amy Martin: nearly exterminated, white Amy Martin: people began to eulogize them.
Amy Martin: In fact, they referred to both Amy Martin: the American bison and the Amy Martin: American Indian as lost Amy Martin: or vanishing or disappearing Amy Martin: when there were still hundreds Amy Martin: of thousands of wild buffalo Amy Martin: out on the landscape and many Amy Martin: tribes still hunting them in Amy Martin: traditional ways.
Amy Martin: Looking back at this time, from Amy Martin: our present moment, you can Amy Martin: see that there was this window Amy Martin: when people in power had Amy Martin: an awareness of what was being Amy Martin: lost and had the opportunity Amy Martin: to act to try to stop Amy Martin: the destruction of the bison Amy Martin: and the brutal violence against Amy Martin: native people. Amy Martin: But for the most part, they Amy Martin: didn't take that opportunity.
Trimble Gilbert: We asking for help. Trimble Gilbert: We want to continue to Trimble Gilbert: keep this land Trimble Gilbert: the way it is, this Trimble Gilbert: small area. Amy Martin: Again, Trimble Gilbert. Trimble Gilbert: People should understand Trimble Gilbert: and they should Trimble Gilbert: support Trimble Gilbert: Athabascan people. Trimble Gilbert: They are right to Trimble Gilbert: stand for their country.
Bernadette Demientieff: My identity is not up for Bernadette Demientieff: negotiation. Bernadette Demientieff: My identity is important Bernadette Demientieff: to me. It may not be important Bernadette Demientieff: to people, but it's important Bernadette Demientieff: to me. And I matter. Bernadette Demientieff: My children matter and my Bernadette Demientieff: people matter.
Amy Martin: I'm back in Fairbanks talking Amy Martin: to Bernadette Demientieff, the Amy Martin: executive director of the Amy Martin: Gwich'in Steering Committee. Bernadette Demientieff: None of this belongs to us. Bernadette Demientieff: None of Bernadette Demientieff: this belongs to us. Bernadette Demientieff: We're passing through Bernadette Demientieff: and we need to take care of Bernadette Demientieff: stuff that's given to us.
Bernadette Demientieff: And that is what our elders Bernadette Demientieff: told us. Bernadette Demientieff: At the gathering, Bernadette Demientieff: they only told us to go out and Bernadette Demientieff: educate the world and do Bernadette Demientieff: it in a good way. Amy Martin: You've probably noticed that a Amy Martin: lot of the Gwich'in people I Amy Martin: spoke with used that phrase Amy Martin: that they're trying to do Amy Martin: things in a good way.
Amy Martin: When I asked Sarah James what Amy Martin: she meant by it, she answered Amy Martin: by giving examples like Amy Martin: with the moose meat she said, Amy Martin: doing it in a good way means Amy Martin: you keep expanding the circle Amy Martin: of giving outward. Amy Martin: You pay attention to the needs Amy Martin: of the people around you and Amy Martin: you share what you have. Amy Martin: And it's about more than that.
Amy Martin: To the more Gwich'in people Amy Martin: I talked with and the more I Amy Martin: heard this phrase, I realized Amy Martin: that doing things in a good way Amy Martin: is a really deep concept. Amy Martin: I'm sure I don't fully Amy Martin: understand it, but from what Amy Martin: I can gather, it's also Amy Martin: about what you value, what your Amy Martin: priorities are.
Amy Martin: It's about showing respect to Amy Martin: others and also respecting Amy Martin: yourself and Amy Martin: how those things are Amy Martin: interconnected. Amy Martin: As the public face of the Amy Martin: Gwich'in Steering Committee, Amy Martin: Bernadette has to try to live Amy Martin: this ethos everywhere she Amy Martin: goes, including Capitol Amy Martin: Hill. Amy Martin: I asked her how she does it.
Bernadette Demientieff: You know, it's not always easy Bernadette Demientieff: to do it in a good way, Bernadette Demientieff: especially now. Amy Martin: Bernadette told me she met with Amy Martin: Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski Amy Martin: to try to get her to understand Amy Martin: the Gwich'in perspective on Amy Martin: drilling in the refuge. Bernadette Demientieff: And, you know, I respect
Bernadette Demientieff: her. I know she has to make a Bernadette Demientieff: lot of really tough decisions. Bernadette Demientieff: And I know she has to bring Bernadette Demientieff: some jobs to Alaska, Bernadette Demientieff: but it shouldn't be at the Bernadette Demientieff: price of wiping out a tribe. Bernadette Demientieff: We need Bernadette Demientieff: to be respected.
Bernadette Demientieff: Like, you can't Bernadette Demientieff: just come into our home and Bernadette Demientieff: just tell us, Bernadette Demientieff: you know, I'm sorry, but Bernadette Demientieff: we're not Bernadette Demientieff: you're not going to be able to Bernadette Demientieff: have these animals here. Bernadette Demientieff: No more work. Bernadette Demientieff: You can't just come into Bernadette Demientieff: somebody's home and do that.
Bernadette Demientieff: And this is Bernadette Demientieff: our home. Bernadette Demientieff: We've been here for Bernadette Demientieff: over 20,000 Bernadette Demientieff: years. Bernadette Demientieff: And you know, my children, Bernadette Demientieff: this is their birthright.
Bernadette Demientieff: And, you know, I Bernadette Demientieff: will stand up till Bernadette Demientieff: my last breath defending Bernadette Demientieff: my way of life, defending Bernadette Demientieff: my children's future Bernadette Demientieff: and defending my people. Amy Martin: Again, here's Sarah James. Sarah James: There's too much greed in this Sarah James: world. Sarah James: The earth can't take it. Sarah James: Some people have got too much.
Sarah James: Some people don't have nothing. Sarah James: And if we just gave Sarah James: Earth to Sarah James: live. Sarah James: I think we all want to live Sarah James: good and there Sarah James: will be more peace. Sarah James: We need to work on that all Sarah James: together in order to Sarah James: survive. Amy Martin: Join us for our final episode Amy Martin: of this series next time Amy Martin: on Threshold. Nick Mott: Our reporting was funded by the Nick Mott: Pulitzer Center.
Nick Mott: Montana Public Radio, the Park Nick Mott: Foundation, the High Stakes Nick Mott: Foundation, the William H. Nick Mott: And Mary Waters Harris Nick Mott: Foundation. And by our Nick Mott: listeners, our Nick Mott: work depends on people who Nick Mott: believe in it and choose to Nick Mott: support it. Nick Mott: People like you join our Nick Mott: community at Thresholdpodcast.org.
Amy Martin: The team behind this episode of Amy Martin: Threshold is Nick Mott, Eva Amy Martin: Kalea, Michelle Woods, Caysi Amy Martin: Simpson, Brook Artziniega, Amy Martin: Tej Reddy, Lynn Amy Martin: Lieu and Megan Myscofski. Amy Martin: Special thanks to Frank Allen, Amy Martin: Hana Carey, Dan Carreno, Amy Martin: Michael Connor, Kara Cromwell, Amy Martin: Katie DeFusco, Matt Herlihy Amy Martin: and Rachel Klein. Amy Martin: Our music is by Travis Amy Martin: Yost.