Howdy and welcome to the Three Troutcomes Baseball podcast, presented by Baseball Prospectives. I'm your host, Ian left Quoitz and joining me as always from suburb, Michigan. It is Ben Murphy. Ben. How are you doing? I'm doing well? How are you doing? I'm doing wonderfully, delighted to be here, which is the same place as always, which is in your ears? Dear listener, that too? Yeah? Right? Doesn't that seem terrifying
that you are literally in like somebody's earhole right now? I'm not gonna think about it. Yeah, just ponder that. Oh my god. Um also pondering that from our nation's capital. It's Jared wise Darted. How are you doing a little weirded out right now? That's the way I like it. Um, Happy Paystock Happy? Someone has asked me, do you say happy Paysock? I don't know what the right Burgridge there? Great question? Is it a happy holiday? It feels mixed? Yeah, it was are though
I can think about it. Yeah, that's true, it's true. I am. I didn't celebrate any holidays this past weekend, but a lot of people wish me Happy Easter, and it really bothers me that people assume that I'd be celebrating Easter, and I wanted to respond with something like, uh, you know, happy Passover, whatever the like ecalent was, and I realized, like I didn't know what that was. And then that's just like me being even worse than that, because it's just like a disingenuous double down
on the religious assumptions. But um know, like obviously throwing it in their face that they made a mistaken assumption about me. Um, probably it's much better to have an actual civilized adult conversation, but like, it's probably not good to assume that everybody celebrates Easter and blah blah blah. But the main reason I didn't was because I didn't know what the right thing to say was. So this is like of us do Like I know, I know,
fasts need to be meaningful and not every holiday is happy. Most holidays aren't, I guess, well most, sorry, I should say most most of the Jewish high holidays right are like not about rejoicing necessarily, They're about like reflection and things. They're all mixed, I think, Um, I you know, again, like I am not a religious studies major either, but I've always kind of based how happy a Jewish holiday is based on the amount and type of food that you get to eat. So if it's a good
holiday, you eat a ton and it's really delicious. Shoot right, yeah, like awesome, We'll fry everything and just like stuffing on it. Yeah, because if it's good, that means you eat more. Terrible day you don't eat. Does that mean Christmas is one of the best Jewish holidays? Yes, there's a really sacrilegious response to that, but at least listener to draw those in. I've gotten this horribly off track. I apologize, Yeah I don't. I don't know what the track was, but um, yeah,
there's pivot to baseball. So we are delighted to have those of you left. Right. That might have been the fastest we've ever lost listeners in the beginning of the podcast new record every week half our listeners one of them just turned it off. But all right, we are happy to be back for another week. Um and as always, I'd love to start our show with some emails, So let's let's turn over to the mailback captain, See what's what's on deck? Oh that's actually a baseball pun. Sorry, sorry,
everyone, I don't respond to those. Yeah, we got an email. It's very exciting. Thanks Jacob for writing back. In Jacob is asking about his team in Public League, an L three forty, which I can't think of a good nemonic for that. It's three of four to zero. I don't know. Look it up. He's a team eleven and wants to know if he should start selling now. This was he wrote in before the supplemental or could he make some good moves in the supplements and be a competitive
team this year? So I'll turn it over to you guys who have a similar But I think the interesting thing about this question from Jacob is that I know for if you guys would agree for me personally, I don't know that a supplemental could is likely to swing a team too much like I wouldn't. It's hard for me to imagine two my teams that are going to be completely revamped by a supplemental picks. But Jacob's team, this one in particular, is light on depth, So to me, it's a more reasonable question.
Say hey, this is an easy way for me to pick up depth. Depth is the one thing I'm missing? Is that going to be enough to swing the tide? Turn the tide, and do you want to go first or do you want me to go first. I think you should go first,
because you actually respond to you. I did actually responded. My response was like two sentences, and I basically said, I think the team lacks enough depth that even if everything breaks right and you could add some depth through the supplementals, you're not gonna be competitive enough this year to make it worth trying to make that push, and it's better to pull the plug on this year and focus on strengthening the core, or trading this year supplementals for picks
and next year spring draft or something like that. Yeah. So I think one of the things that's interesting here is that between when Jacob wrote it and I think where the team is now, the writing is on the wall here, you know. I think sometimes you can, let's say, start the season like ten and six, or even like eight and eight, or and kind of say, okay, I can dream my team to a championship, but this team is now, I believe six and sixteen. So the question
kind of answered itself between then and now. But he does have a strong core, especially in pitching. And I think what's interesting if we take this over to the the Rob McCune Memorial Taking Players Report, which is a fascinating tool, again, a Baseball Perspectus fantasy tool for all subscribers. Again highly recommended on AD. Just the thing that's true. Um, you can see that in terms of like his top five keepers he has, he's in the
top half of the league, which I think is probably accurate. You know, he has Aaron Nolan, he has Louis Castillo and some stars coming up, so Corey Seeger, Victor Robless Player and Anthony Randon. So you have players who are projected to oh JP J T room, you know. So you have players who are really going to deliver power this year, an impact. But the more and more you go out, you just see the lack
of depth get exposed. So you know, by thirteen thirteen keepers still third actually in the league, but then you go to eighteen and it drops to second to last. So like right after the keeper line, the tails off completely, and that's actually an awesome place to be in. I think that's the way you want to set up your non contenders in a continuing league is to just think, like, how do I get the best core of thirteen
players that I can for now and for the future. One of the things that's interesting to me is that in addition to this core of players who are providing present value, you do have a number of minor leaguers and a large number of minor leaguers. What I would probably recommend is letting go a little bit of some of the minor leaguers and just being very judicious about what you
get back. Look for a bunch of consolidation trades. Maybe try to trade one star player and two to three prospects for the prospect of your dreams. Just you know, I think even be willing to take a loss on the trade, just because you know, I think adding more minor leaguers to the situation is really not you know, there's dimission returns in terms of your tenth
eleventh keeper. You are really sacrificing depth next year, and at some point you want to get off this treadmill, especially since you already have what's probably a pretty solid contending core. So I think in the email you mentioned like they can't let go Tony Gonsolin, which is fine. I mean, you know, I have dumb keepers on all of our teams as well. You're welcome, and I'm not even saying that's the dump keep. I think it's
fine. Just you know, as the eleventh or twelfth keeper on a team, you're really cutting into what else you can do in your flexibility, both in season in getting more minor league play years and after the season, you know, keeping them. I think it's not just you know, the opportunity
costs, because the twenty sixth round pick is not really anything. It's just you know, you basically you make it much harder for your team to win a championship if you're only in keeping twenty four twenty five players will be a recurring issue in that case. So there are there specific minor leaguers in his league that you think he should be targeting. Yeah, um targeting. I didn't look closely, Okay, so probably honest, But um, you know,
I think you probably know the players you like. I would look for players on contending teams. Um, you know, maybe look for players who dropped out of it this year if anyone gets hurt for the rest of the year and is a you know, as a regular, Um, you know, we've definitely done the Lands of the Colors gambit in a bunch of leagues. But as players like that, pile up in you're in our league,
you know, take a look. I would say as well, Um, you know, because I don't think this this team is going to be bad this year, but I don't think it's far from contention. And we have a couple of teams like that, so you know that's. Um, that is the advantage of a continuing league. It's very hard in one year league. And I think we'll talk about that in a second too, um, because I think we have some more thoughts on this kind of topic. But that's all I have on this, Jared, anything to add, No,
I think it's good. I still think it's better than than you guys think it is. But it's not that it's not a good team. It's that this isn't the year right the way that it's currently constituted, Like the stuff that he got the spring draft isn't it's not enough. And and even if he had a great outlook on things, he's already lasted the division. He's already behind by ten games. You know. It's like he'd have to have more depth, playing better and out playing those other teams by enough that it
doesn't make sense to me to try to win this year. When as Ian was saying, it's in a great position to try to contend for next year because the core is really good, the keepers are pretty solid, and if you take the opportunity now, you can really build something that will be pretty solid next year. And I think show pretty well and like make the playoffs,
maybe not win anything like championship. But it would be a huge missed opportunity to try to go for this year and spoil the good position that he's
in to be really good next year. I think that's fair. Yeah, And it's interesting because because so much of the talent is in the starting there, there's also kind of a time limit the other way, so you know, either consider maybe trading out you're starting pitchers for fixing up holes in your lineup, maybe an outfielder again, even if you're losing trades that way. It's just things that things that you can take into twenty twenty and be confident
in by the end of the year. So all right. I think this is one of the reasons that scoresheet is kind of fun though, because this is a line of a team that and say a standard rotor league could be fairly competitive right now, I think, But Scoresheet is all about the depth, which is a fun twist for those but feel like that sort of thing, right, a team that's struggling primarily because the eighteenth for thirty fifth positions on the roster are weak. Yeah, yeah, which is the thing.
The thing that separates Scoresheet from fantasy is just trolling those like relief pitching depth charts, looking looking for the setup man who are out of options in the middle of March, maybe on a beach somewhere. Who knows the thing that says, I have made a choice with my life and I'm going to see it through. That's all the questions we had scores you to a Baseball perspectives
ian. Do you think there are other people that are in similar positions, say three or four weeks into the season, trying to figure out what to do about their team that's not performing? Well, wow, that is quite a segue. Whoa um, what should they do? I think I think I got some good advice in my inbox this week from Jeff Barton. He
says it's time to painting. Yeah, so we we eat all us and you the listener got an email this week from the Barns that kind of got pinned on their topic board, so I will I guess at some level this is a mail back Captain, So I don't know, Jared if you want to read it, but I do have it in front of me if you think to go ahead, because this wasn't sent to me. Okay, that's fair, thank you for making me a saysy captain. Anyway, Hi,
y'all. As far as performance of players who are still healthy, I generally do not worry too much if one of my players has a slow start the first week or so. But if after twenty games a guy is still performing poorly, then I start to think it might be time for that player to ride some pine, especially if he's getting up there in age. Of course, that doesn't always work out well either. We know the sinking feeling of
benching a guy just before he gets hot. Decisions such as went to start a guy who's been hot, or to bench a guy even if he was one of your higher draft picks, or what makes us playing playing this game fun? Hey and air quotes around fun just for verse similitude. Overall, though, while I always preach patients the first week or two, at three week mark, I think drastic changes are often called for best of luck in your decision making, Ben, Do you think this is good advice? Man?
That's a setup. No, But I think so it's an interesting It's interesting to contrast the email with Jacob's team because I don't think my answer about Jacob's team changes a whole lot now than it would have before the season started, like based on the depth that he has, right, Like, he came into the season with two relievers and you know, only one catcher, really only one first baseman, only you know, like two or three middle
infielders. So he was going to have a tough go over the long haul of the full six month season because depth is so important in scoresheet, like you guys are saying. And I think there's a big difference between changing your evaluation of the team between the start of the season and now, which is what Jeff Barton is talking about, and being realistic with yourself when you're taking stock of your team, which is what I was hoping to do for Jacob.
And so I think, like Jeff's advice is not something I would agree with. I think we're definitely too early in the season to change, you know, in the big picture sense, like your evaluation of whether you thought
your team was going to be competitive or not. And I think it's really too bad that Jeff's email isn't more careful about describing like the ways that you might be able to tell whether the performance that you've seen in the win lost column is indicative of the talent on the team and what you should expect going
forward. Right, And we've talked about this a little bit before, but you know, you can even dig into just on a very cursory level for your scoresy team, like have they been you know, quote unquote lucky, You're unlucky in terms of sequencing, in terms of like the runs they scored and allowed? How closely does their Pythagorean win percentage, Like how close is that to their actual you know, like one loss for the scoreshy team.
But then you can also look at comparing the players as scoresy performance to their real life performance, and something like team Tracker on Baseball Perspectives site can be really helpful for that too, where you can sort of look at real life performance season to date and compare it to the sim performance season to date and say, like, well, do I have some luck balancing or other like
balance back stuff that might be coming my way down the road. And and I think if you have seen something notable in the beginning of season, like like Jeff mentioned, like an injury or something like that, Yeah, yeah, that's maybe a reason to change your outlook. But borrying something major like that, I think it's it's way too early. And I think, um, I think a lot of people are probably savvy enough to see that,
and so it's a little bit I don't know. It's interesting to me that Jeff would give that advice in that email newsletter that you can't opt out of if you want to. All Right, we're learning a lot of best practices today and a lot of different fields. Um. Any any thoughts, so Ben, when is the time he would start making That's a good question. Um, I guess maybe a third of the way into the season is when I would like take stock of it and think about changing course. You know.
One of the things too, is even if you wait until a third of the way to the season, which is like two months, so that's you know, what end of May something like that, you're still gonna have plenty of time to make any trades or change your approach for your supplemental picks. And I think way too often we have this emotional reaction to our team like, oh, this stud like these guys are the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked, Like I'm getting rid of them. But stop reading.
But you have but you have to, like you have to like take that emotional reaction set aside, try to be a little bit rational about it and be like, Okay, like what's actually changed in terms of like preseason projections or what I was expecting this team to do. And and I guess maybe people just feel like that it's like I have to do something, but you
don't. And yeah, I would wait at least two months. And even if you waited like another month or two after that, you're getting an extra like two weeks after the Major League Baseball trade deadline going into August to make trades and score sheet. You know, it's like there's a lot of time left to try to move the players that are going to be helpful to contenders.
And because the September performances waited so heavily in score sheet in the playoffs, those playoff contenders are going to be super interested in those players that you have that are you know, closer to the one hit wonder side of the value spectrum in terms of, you know, gonna be good this year, maybe next, but not really great in the long run, that a team that wants to rebuild for the future would be happy to deal to a playoff
contender. And a lot of times the playoff contender is going to be more interested in August because they're going to have more cost certainty run what they're getting right now. People are like, I don't know if that hot start is for real or not, and you're probably not going to get great value for the guy that you have that you'd like to trade because you want to punt on the season, because the team's playing terribly. There's all kinds of great
reasons to wait. And I think, yeah, I would wait at least two months, even three or four. I think you're as long as you're giving yourself a couple of weeks before the trade deadline, you'll be fine. So to give Jeff the benefit of the dead here, or to play the advocate, maybe is it possible that what he means by drastic changes is not blow up your team, because, like earlier in the paragraph, he's talking about Benching, a guy who is not hitting it, well so is So
do you think by jestic changes it's possible. He's meaning, you know, rejigger your lineup or you know, put someone on the bench and bringing someone in, as opposed to deciding, oh, my team is not going to compete this year. So by drastic changes, you mean the opposite of drastic
changes. Well, the thing is that, like in score sheet, there's not that many ways because without a waiver wire, there's not many ways you can change your team, right, There aren't a ton of levers in score sheet, right, Benching, somebody is a relatively I mean, not drastic. I won't use the word drastic, sure, but I mean, is it possible. That's what he's suggesting, as opposed to deciding, Oh, your team is not going to be competitive this year. Yeah. Well,
especially you know with score sheets. I guess origination as kind of a one year league. I think, you know, there's still sometimes the one year mentality and like, oh my god, I have to win this year, and you know, I I also like, I know we were teaming this up, but there's a part of me that definitely feels what Jeff feels and agrees with it. You know, there was an article that came out this week in Baseball Perspectives by former guest Mark Marry which kind of got into this
very same kind of feeling. You know, the it's just start as team starts six to nine and then you have that one six week right at the top, and then you know, are you are you okay with that or do you just you know panic? And I feel it too. We're in a league where we are you know again SSSIM if you if you go all the way out, you know, we have the top SSIM in the league, but the team is in last place, and it's last place in a twelve team league. It's nine games out of first it's you know, four
games out of the playoffs with a million teams in front of us. I don't know, you know, you maybe maybe there's some panicking going on, Maybe there's something drastic that we have to do. Um. You know, I think there is tremendous pressure to punt because you know, one of the other things men that you talk about is it's it's good to wait and good Um that value kind of stays the same. But I think there's also benefit
to being the first mover. Is that right. Yeah, I think it's good to be able to set the market for some of this stuff, but a lot of continuing leagues are going to have enough history that you don't get a ton of variability and say, like what kind of draft pick you're going to get for a good reliever or something like that. And I think it's it's definitely better to be first to market if you feel like you're going to have a little bit of an advantage in terms of leverage with trading partners or
something like that. But you know, there's also situations where you know, if you're the last one in and you've got the last really good player and there are three teams that are in a dog fight for that last playoff spot, then you're in a really good position to trade. So I don't think
it's obviously always best to be first in. My personal preference is usually to be first in because I like the feeling of like sort of control or whatever you want to call it in terms of setting setting the price on some of those types of things. But that's I think more of a personal preference than it is like general guideline that I think everybody should try to follow. Yeah,
so it's interesting. So in terms of like advice for a team that is like ours, let's say eight or nine games out in a league where you thought you were competing, or like maybe Jacob was, you hoped you were competing. You know, there's trading, there's the supplemental market, but I feel like it's very tough to gain an advantage in a supplemental market.
And as you were saying, Jared, I think it benefits a very specific type of team, right, a team who's collapse is due not to let's say, the complete failure of their best players, but injuries and or lack of depth. Right, if there are one or two holes that are just if the team is just like leaking innings or something like that and you need to paper it over, or you are literally the worst team in the league and you get that one Max Muncie bump, right, which can sometimes happen
in the first draft or two. You know, I think it's interesting to think of in terms of one year leagues as well, because there are leagues out there that don't have luxury of hunting and they're you know, we did plenty to talk more about it. So let's say it is a situation like we are in let's say, in our in our actual league that is pretty close functionally to a one year league where we are six games out of all of a sudden. Are there ways that you can think of to kind of
help your team mid season if something bad has gone wrong? I mean, I think you have to have a sense for what the weakness is on the team. And if you're if your bullpen is the weakness, like, that's something that's easy to show up. If it's you know, lack of power
or something on offense, well I guess that doesn't really happen anymore. But if it's lack of you know, lack of depth in the middle infield or something like that, you know, a lack of top end talent in the corners, you know, those things are all going to have different prices, and you have to have some other relative strength at least within your team that you can try to deal from to try to address it, to make the
team, you know, maybe a little bit more balanced. But honestly, I think a lot of times in when year leagues you're sort of stuck because unless you get a really good opportunity for a challenge trade that helps you shift. You know, you've got eight great starting pitchers and you're okay with dealing one or two to you know, add another outfield or something like that,
and there's a team that is in the converse situation. You know, those types of situations don't happen very often, and it makes it tough, I think, to be able to pull off something that's going to actually have a
meaningful impact on your team's performance that season. Yeah, I think there are two things potentially that I would recommend, although I will say, like I agree with you that the reason we don't talk about one year leagues as much is that so much of them are decided in March and then through injuries that you know, if you end up in a hole, it's just incredibly difficult
to get out of it. But so two things that I might recommend if you are an active owner and you want to try to change your fate. One is to trade your solid stars for like incredibly risky investments and maybe crack your crack your lineup a bit. If their depth is the problem, just trade your starter for two people who may have playing time issues and just hope
and pray. You know, I think minute a lot of the time, it might go worse, but I think you're just looking for the chance that you know, Ryan McMahon grabs the job and runs away with it, or Alex Rodugo somehow becomes a starter, or you know, they call up whoever. I guess all the stars are in the major leagues at this point. But you know, if if somebody, if somebody actually gets called up, you know, look for kind of mid level prospects. I don't know,
I would just start accepting more and more risk into your team. The other strategy that I might suggest is, you know, just there is one form of time value in a one year league, and that's you know, you trade your players who are of more use in the playoffs for players who might be of more use in the regular season. So it's really like trading off over performer for underperformers and just hoping that they bounce back. I would say,
almost no matter how bad they are. But uh, you know, I can think of a major league team that has really tested those out of boundaries recently. But um, you know, I think again like that I'm saying earlier because because some of that September value is locked in. You know, I think if you well, if you're a terrible team with Christian yellits,
you have made some mistakes in life. But you know, I think if there is anybody who has had a hot month of the season, I would just flog them now to a to a contender and get that underperforming player and just hope. Like if you're if you're in last, if you're second to last and won year league. You know, I think you're just looking for things to bounce back your way, and you want to get into the playoffs, and you can deal with U looking stupid later. Makes sense,
all right? So any anything else? Are are we ready to panic? I'm glad you said that word because I have a Joe Panic segue digression. I want to make sure yes, my favorite type of pandic is Joe panic. I just read this book Infinite Baseball. I'm holding up to the camera but only gets can see. It's from a philosopher at the ballpark by Alvin No. I don't know that I would recommend it necessarily to anyone in particular, and I think a lot of one over my head because I don't do
philosophy. But he had a story about Joe Panic in there, and Joe Panic's name was spelled wrong. It was spelled like the word panic rather than like the last name Joe Panic. And this is like multiple times in an index too, but so one. I don't know if maybe it's just a
philosophy thing that's going over my head, but why he misspelled it? But too, Like it made me think of how hard it has to be to be an editor for a book on philosophy and baseball and like to get that right, like to be to be someone who could get all the philosophical stuff down but also know how like Joe Panic is an actual person and not just this construct that this author came up with, like Joe cool, but yeah, like how is how is an editors? Oh? I don't know.
He could type Joe Panic into Google, but like if you don't know that, nothing would come up. It would all be the other Joe Panic philosophical construct. It's like the anti clutch, like not Jeter. Uh, that is funny, that's it. It's a slim volume. Like I don't know if i'dn't necessarily recommend it, But how did you end up reading a philosophy philosophy book about baseball? Uh? My mom got it for me so there
you go. That'll do it, all right. She got it for me, and she's like, you know, this didn't even get that great reviews, but here you go. Yes, I'm right always the way I like to get Again, I don't think people appreciate how much your mother loves books and like media in general. But like, yeah, that's a very that's
a very quintessential story of your mother thing. It's like the only reason that she hasn't left her job yet is because part of her job entails ordering thousands of dollars of books each year, and that's like her favorite thing in the world, and she takes a lot of crap in order to like just hang on to that. Basically, all right, whatever joy um. So, I think other than that topic, where I think we decided it is not tied to panic unless it days um you know the kind of advice we always
like to get. Um D. We are going to extend our best thing we saw this week topic a little bit because just just some bigger things that we saw this week. I would not say this is the best thing I saw this week, but one thing I saw this week very recently over the weekend was um, the Tampa Bay Rays playing the Boston Red Sox and the
Tampa Bay Raise. UH. I don't know if you heard of this, if you heard from this game, but the Tampa Bay Rays um set the team record for triples in one game with four UM and it was it was very interesting to me. UM weird game. The Rays Raise actually lost six five to the to the Red Sox. UM, but I was struck by this feeling when um, let's see g MANCHOI hit the first triple in the fourth inning and uh Yandi DS was up and I was like, oh, this will be um, you know, this will be fun. The the
Rays are gonna get back at it. And then U Yandi d has grounded out and I realized, oh, everyone is right. It doesn't matter what base you are on too, Like it may as well be first base. You gruns out like a lot. Yeah, well, Yandi D has hit
another home run. This is all happening for him this year. But yeah no, I realized, like, oh runner on first because there were actually two instances of this in the UH in the game with a leadoff triple, and both times like the first player granted out and then a player was out and I could just see you know, the strikeout happening, and I'm like, oh god, this is like It's been a long time since I've had to calibrate my expectations after a triple watching modern baseball, so um, you
know, I feel like it was a real strange thing. And actually half of them scored, so it was in both cases it was a triple with one out, then a triple scored the run, and then that player was stranded on third. We twice. Yeah, I know it was a strange, strange experience, but it kind of just brought to mind, Um again, we've been talking about this, uh rabbit ball for the past couple of
weeks, how the game is changing. And I don't know if we've assed like Jared, especially since you watched baseball uh pretty regular or you know, like effects Emily thereof do you like this not the team like the concept of like the baseball that we're watching right now. Well, I mean it's putting the o's in position to set some pretty spectacular records. So in that sense, sure, what record would that be? Most time runs given up by a team in a season? Ever? They said the one for I obviously
saw this one. I think it was in that article. Yeah, who sports one. The Os have given up the most home runs through the end of April, and so the record through the end of April was fifty and the O's broke that with ten games to go in so it's been a good season. Yeah. Yeah. The pitching is not holding up as well as I thought it was. And I did think they were gonna be the worst team in league by a lot, So ups and downs. They're hitting better
than I thought. They're hitting home runs, sure everyone, Yeah, um, you know, is it? I was just curious, like aesthetically, are you happy with baseball in the moment um? You know. I think one of the things that has happened between last podcasts and this is, uh, we've seen kind of Rob Arthur articles on baseball perspectives that first, the the coefficient drag is back down right, so balls are flying everywhere. And
then the Triple A ball was replaced by the Major League ball. I assume most people have heard this, and then home runs are up in Triple A by thirty percent, which, as a person who watches a lot of Triple A games is a real bummer because like, um, they already play most of those games on like the moon in the PCL though, that's just gonna be like a thousand home runs. Um yeah, is this uh you know, is a game where Gi Monchoy, a player not you know, should
not be hitting a triples does hit a triple. It's amazing, you know, the whole like it was. It was great because it was like the first thing that happened to the rays and four innings, so everyone was like a top step and cheering him on, and you know, Tropicana Field was rocking. The DJ was like fake playing music. That's an insight joke. Sorry, we went to Tropicana Field once. The DJ was like spinning the whole day and nothing was coming out. It was very strange and we have
talked about it for a decade since. Um, but the whole day it was just the second thid to seventh inning just standing there just like spinning a thing and like listening, but no sound was coming out. I don't get it, just okay, but you know, so it was like this moment whereas like everyone's excited, but he didn't get home and you know, it wasn't a home run. And then I was like, oh, that's right.
I don't know that anything's going to happen like, yeah, that's not a run necessarily, or it's like it wouldn't even be a surprise if it wasn't a run, right, I think it's less esthetically pleasing for me personally, if that's your question. Yeah, I mean maybe just because it's a different front I'm used to and I still think of it in the old terms. But yeah, right right. Is it like a kids these days thing? Yeah, like with their bull hoops and their singles or you know home
runs. Where's the day where you could you know, drive knock a runner over. It's interesting to me because I'm of two minds. Like, you know, I do feel I do feel the inertness a little bit, like it does feel like there's an aspect of home run or bust that you know, it's pervasive. It's not just like when it happens, It just like
pervades your thinking. It's like, oh, this team has to hit a home run here, you know, which is kind of different even than like or let's just let them, you know, get the bay or you know, runners a scoring position, let's get a single drive over And it's like,
well you can, but that's just like less likely than ever. Um, you know, but there's an aspect like the way I watch games too is I don't know if it's changed if it was the way I always watched it, But you know, I find myself much more interested in the batter pitcher interaction than before. And I think, to me, that is the thing that has been compensating that. That's kind of what I've been realizing in this world, Like why am I not completely turned off by baseball? Um?
You know, I think I like strikeouts more than most people. And I think I like home runs more than most people, Like I think most people like home er But you know, I I think there's this aspect of um, the part of the game that I most focus on is that like interaction. And I've never liked throws to first. I've never really liked you know, hitting behind the runner and positioning and all that stuff. Like I
don't really enjoy stolen bases as much as most people. Maybe it's just because I grew up, you know, kind of pre saberized in the early nineties way like, or mid nineties way like. I was a kid when I first discovered saber metrics. So like me and the people younger than me are all like we never cared about RBIs and winning winning is a function of hitting
oh run sun, Um you know that. Um. I think I I do think of myself as being like a slightly younger generation that way in terms of fandom, like a post you know, the right way to play, And I think on some level it has been kind of interesting to see this like being pulled to an end and saying, Okay, it just really narrows
down the focus of what a game is because you have the position. You know, I think all the shifting that's going on, and it's just not as compelling to me as like, you know, is this a player like swing changing, a player pulp going to the pulse side, or just you know, I think the types of pitches that are being thrown. And you know, I think I've spent much more time focusing on the micro than the
macro of the game as well. Do you think you would feel similarly if we had more certainty about like the integrity of the baseball like you're talking about before, or like the the consistency of some of those things that we had previously assumed we're going to be the same, so that you could, like, for example, chock all of it up to usage pattern changes and like you know, like the way that let's stry pitching pitch or usage pattern changes.
You know, like it do you think do you think it makes sense that that's the big part of it? And how much of the like unknown ball juicing types of things are a problem, right, because to me, that's like outside the game in a way, right, Like that's the thing that's like that shouldn't that shouldn't change, right, Baseball shouldn't be making those tweaks without um like having a good reason or like having a little bit of
transparency about it. But the like strategic shifts are like defensive repositioning or only having pitchers face you know, a batter or two, Like those things are more like well, if that's the way that the manager thinks is best around the team, then you know that's their prerogative. Does that make a difference for you in terms of like how you how much you enjoy what's going on and whether like the changes are things that you can feel good about watching or
like still are entertained by. Yeah, it's interesting, like the thing the changes over the years that have really upset me or you know, not you like relatively obsessed me. Yeah, exactly. We all understand those table stakes here. Um, you know, I think losing the power of the starting pitcher has been upsetting to me. I understand it esthetically. I do think probably the best rotation is just like, there are you guys going one time
through the order. I think eventually that's what baseball will be. But you're not telling me to bring it back to the Orioles. But tonight was the first oriol starter who lasted seven innings in a game. Okay, partially that's on the Orioles. But yeah, who was it? Um, Andrew Kashner? Wow, all right, wasn't he the opening day starter? Yeah? Well, you do want your teammates to really soak up some innings where you he's leading by example. Yeah, that's fair. H No, I think
I feel like that has been a problem. I feel like, um, some of the inertness of like the lack of substitutions I find much more upsetting. You know, I think in especially American League games, you'll go the
entire game and no, there's no batter substitution, no pitch hitting. Pinch hitting is probably losing strategy, but there's no like optimistic like somebody is coming in like this changes everything heavens, Like, yeah, it's just like, you know, a picture throws three innings and then they bring in another picture throws three innings, and then they bring in another picture throws three innings and
then it's done. Um for so, I feel like that's the part that is a little alienating to me, Like the moment to moment thing, the actual ball itself, I'm mostly okay with. I feel like, if the alternative is just nineteen sixty eight, I would rather have this, you know, I don't know what would happen if the ball was deadened, Like would people, would the sinker come back? I don't know, would like one run strategies come back. It doesn't feel like one when run strategies are going
to come back. If the ball is deadened, it feels like they were always losing strategies right, Like you'd have to make bigger changes to the game in order to make that acceptable. I think you would just have a game where no one's scored ever, which may have its own charms. But I don't know. Um, you know, Jared, I don't know how you feel about that. I don't want to keep monologueing because you were also watching
games pretty regularly. What you're trying to say, I'm saying, Ben that you don't watch games all that regularly and this thing to you exercise, I don't watch baseball games all that big things. Well, let me ask Ben, um, because you grew up among the thee of us playing baseball, yes, in an organized manner. Yeah. I was reflecting on that when
Ian was talking about like how he was raised on sacred metrics. Actually, yeah, you were raised on actually playing the game and getting outside and seeking the sun well and like all that stupid traditionalist shit like hitting behind the runner and all the other things that you said. Like you were saying that, and of course that's a podcast, but I was sitting here like nodding along, like yep, I remember being taught that, and I remember being taught
that. You know, it's like, oh yeah, like doing little thing like you get the ice cream cone when you're six, and then you get the slap on the back when you're fourteen or something. I guess I don't know. I don't reflect on that as much as like the actual on the field stuff that you were talking about, Like I remember very vividly my high school coach telling me, like, you should swing at the first fastball. You see, Like that's like that's our hitting approach, is like hit the
first fastball you can. And you know, I learned a long time ago that that's a kind of terrible approach. But I was also never a great hitter, so it didn't it didn't matter for me personally. No, Lend Powell, I heard, Oh, you have to explain that a little bit. He was in he was in your area, right, Yeah, I played on the junior legion team when he was on the senior legion team.
I like knew him, and his dad coached the junior legion team. His dad was a good old boy anyway, hopefully, yeah, hopefully I said that with the appropriate intonation that every understands how I feel about that. A slight dramatic pause there. I was really worried about what's going to come. I mean, I was trying to figure out what's like, what's the right word, Like a second, we're getting pulled, right, It's not that
bad, uh, Jerry, what were you actually going to ask? As I sort of interrupted you as you were framing your question, and then I interrupted you as you were answering at so that's why we make good podcasts. No, I just think that's like Uni was saying, he doesn't care as much about the not stacy instation kind of approach, but like it's fine if the game is just entirely strikeouts and Homer's And I was just wondering if you
had a different sentiment. I realized you don't hu that close to the traditionalist point of view, but like if you you know, growing being brought up in word, that's what you were doing, and there's more emphasis on the
moving the runners around. If that's something that you would miss. It's hard because I've I've not been enamored by baseball in so long, you know, like I don't even remember what it is that I guess I remember some of what it was that like drew me in, but it's not something that I appreciate like I once did. So I don't have like a a good answer
for you in the present. I do think that one of the things that I remember feeling is that baseball was one of those things that if you didn't play it, I always understood why people didn't like watching it on TV because there aren't enough opportunities watching it on TV to appreciate some of the little things that happen, like the middle end fielders talking to each other like in between pitches, or the coaches from the dugout like giving hand signals to the catcher
or to the outfielders or whatever. You know, Like there's all kinds of little things that you can see like that if you're at the game in person or if you know, like sometimes they show it on broadcasts and stuff.
But you know, generally, especially for people that aren't baseball players or haven't been watching baseball games with baseball players, when they watch baseball games on TV, it's like, oh, this is not as exciting as you know, basketball or whatever, because the action is a little bit less frequent and it's harder to appreciate those like nuanced things. I guess, I don't know if
those nuanced things are still present or not. You know, like, just because just because the outcomes on the field are different, doesn't necessarily mean that the left fielder isn't still trying to be in the best position that they can be in. It just means that the number of situations where it matters what position they're in are lower. And is that better or worse, Like I
don't know, you know, like you could still see value. In fact, it might be even like enhanced value in you know, that coach having a sense for where that left fielder should be, and you know, when that one opportunity comes and that left fielder is able to get to a ball that's you know, in the gap or in the corner or whatever because of
that positioning. Like, I think that's interesting, you know, and all that still happens, right, If anything, we've gotten better at that with all of the defensive metrics and spray charts and stack cast and everything that's happened over the less twenty years or whatever. So I don't know, I don't
think it changes too much. I also think as a fan, like I I like high scoring games enough, you know, like I think generally that means more stuff is happening, and the stuff that is happening is more likely to be exciting, and I think those are good things. Yeah, I you know, I think especially from our generation, like the generation before us had this reverie for one nothing pitching duels, right that was like the game
that they grew up in. And then you know, the two to one games and I don't know that never really I like them as a as a spice, but not as the flavor. Okay, that's a funny way to describe it. Yeah, I think I like I think I like my flavor being like lots of two run home runs. Yeah. Yeah, there's a part of me that like really did come of age in nineteen ninety eight as much as I Yeah, you know, I don't want to say it's like I do like the giant offense ball to some degree. I mean, that's
also how I prefer to build fantasy teams. We have like the sort of a running joke about the King's team because you know, the only way they're
gonna win as if they score Brazilion runs because there's only one picture. But even going back to when before we started teaming up, I think I mentioned this on the pod before, but like before we teamed up to run teams, I ran a team by myself in a league where you guys ran a team together, and like my whole team was basically predicated on just having the best possible offense, Like I didn't even care how good the pitching was. Is like, well, I will roster some pictures and try to avoid like
Triple A picture. But I'm gonna draft like my first trend. Draft picks are all gonna be hitters. And I love that team I had, like peak Albert Poohles and Evan Longoria and Joe Mauer and I don't know, yeah, I just remember it very fondly. It's interesting, like well first first bent. Just to correct the record, Carls Martinez was activated today. We have two pictures on our team. Nice, So look out, King's League,
We're coming for you. Um did you guys see the dig that Nate put at us in his like email telling like reminding people about the supplemental Yeah, Nate thinks that we uh Nate, Nate Steven's former guest thinks that we might in fact be intentionally losing, or at least the one of our team is bad by design, our one in twenty one team maybe in the tank. I don't know, you know, I can neither confirm nor deny. It's not like we've gone on play to win each game. We tell our
boys to go out there and try their hardest, like a picture. Triple A has gone out there and given his all, Damnita after game several times he's there and ready to go. Um hang, I have one thing about that. I'm glad that we finally got beyond the like, uh discussions about tanking, where like the implication was that the players weren't trying. It's like, no, no, everybody realizes now, it's not the players that aren't trying, it's the management. It's like every player that ever goes on the
field is competitive and is always going to try to win. And that's fine. That's why you put terrible players on the field if you don't want to win. Sorry, no, that's fine. Um, you haven't seen Major League so you mean it's the ownership. Do you want to move your team to? Is it Las Vegas? It's been a very long time since I watched Major League Miami. This is a thing Google, And you know, people are yelling at us if we assuming we had listeners who haven't turned this
off in protest yet, big assumption. But we turned off a protest. Why would this turn now? And the pointism I make is they try to field intentionally terrible players, but they ended up winning, sure because the players wanted to win. Oh my god, so many will win. He just knows how to win. Yet, you fucking swarm more than the other team. It's the dumbest shit in the world. Sorry, yeah, so we
are we are also caught between two planes here. You know. I think we're a little disturbed by the changes in offense and the slowing of the game, but we are also children of the nineties and we take the long ball. Yeah, so, um, you know a lot. We will be monitoring that going forward, as well as eventually singles are removed from the game entirely and we just watch home in Derby the platonic ideal. I think the Orioles are well set up for that for that event. With with twenty three
first baseman your roster. Didn't this all start with you saying we are going to extend the best things we saw a segment? Yeah? Yeah, okay, so the best thing I thought, No, I mean okay, yeah, go ahead, Sorry, yeah that was a baseball game. Yeah, okay, So the best thing I saw this week was the launch of um non factor baseball game. The launch of Imparatory Rome, which people either are cheering for or going including here. For those who should not know. Imparatore
Rome is a game from Paradox Studios. The developers who created such games as Crusader Kings two, Europa Universalist for Stilarius and others. Essentially, these are giant paint the world war game games slash development builders. If you have played Civilization you would be somewhat familiar with the concept, and this one is set in the Roman era. Um. So I watched it. Jared, who is also a fan of these games and these type of games, watched it
preview and Jared, what did you think. I'm super excited. I need to buy it right now. I need to be playing. I want to stop talking you guys and just start playing this game. Yeah. I believe it is out this week um or if not soon the embargo is lifted. It is. It is a delight. What makes what makes these games compelling to you? So? I don't know which one is your favorite? Actually
are you? That's a good question. I mean probably europe Universalis let's say, Okay, it depends for it's usually just whicheveryone I played most recently. M yeah, so there. So their Grand strategy games is sort of what they're described as, which means there's all sorts of interlocking systems that you have to manage it. It's basically at its core. It's just like a super big spreadsheet with lots of buttons and knobs that you're twittling. So I like
that. I don't know if you're going for the sandbox aspect of it. For me, that's actually one of the things that's hardest for me to get into. The sandbox aspect. It's one of the cool things about the game, but I'm someone who tends to like to be a little bit more directed in these sorts of games, so it takes a wall for me to adjust to that. So for me, it's just cool seeing how all the different
systems interact with each other. Yeah, so you know, I do feel like you know, I do feel like this is not so far afield from simulated baseball or even real baseball. It's like a combination of interlocking systems. I think is the thing that is compelling to both of us. I think what I like most is the narrative where you're crazy king you know, I don't know, sends your rival to the Ubliet and conquers another country, and then all of a sudden it's stricken with small pox vers sins, which is
why I'm a kind of crusader of kings. Too fan at heart, just like marrying different people. Yeah, exactly. So for me, it is always the combination of moving things on the spreadsheet and a bunch of narrative stories about a bunch of random people, which is exactly what I like about baseball, knowing way too much about like seven hundreds and nine hundred people, some of whom may be fictional at any one time. So this also sounds like
everything I've ever heard you guys talk about pop culture. So yeah, very much. But you know, I think I think it's interesting because one of the things that is compelling to me most about the Paradox type gains is their use of well, like you said, interlocking systems, and they have a lot of levers, and you know, I feel like, as you were saying earlier, I think in the panic section even it's it's tough to find a lot of decision points in scoresheet, which I think is to some degree
of benefit. It means you can run more teams at once, it means you can have a more casual game in season. But I do feel like something of that is missing from the game is would you agree, Yeah, I agree that I think that's something we've talked about this year just in general.
I think I think that definitely depends on the context that you're coming from, right, because like if you're coming from Rhodo or something like that, then scoresheet feels like there's a lot of lovers to pull in some ways. I think Rhodo's waiver wire allows for compulsion a little bit more that kind of
day to day Yeah, it's um roster machinations. But I guess my impression of what you were talking about in terms of lovers was more like in game strategy or I guess like big picture roster changes, trades and stuff like that. Yeah, I think, to me, I feel like my ideal game
marries the two. Yeah, that's just reality or outside the park, I guess, out of the park, right, and then it's impacted by the current year, which out of the park is not so the exit my ideal game does not exist on the market right now, I would say not yet, not yet, But but you know, it was because I just watching that and I was like, oh, this is just fun to me, this type of game, and you know, I don't know where I would start, and somewhere in grace, I don't know, I did like we
watched we both watched a start in Crete. I feel like Crete was a great place to spend your four hundreds. AD. Yeah, well that's I mean, that's a stereotypical kind of europe universal. It's starting point, just like an isolated place where you can take over. Is that like starting risk in Australia? It is. Yeah, it's Australia, And I guess, yeah, just to declare for one point in Arli or not they're going to get too deep into paradox interactive games. But these games they tend not to
be a say, specific winning condition. Um, like how in sieve there's nowadays there's you know, six or seven ways you can win in this game. You don't really win so much as you get a start wherever you want and sort of whatever province you want, and you can sort of make your goal whatever you want it to be. Um, which, like I said, that's what took me a little bit to get into it. But it's kind of an interesting approach to a game. Same you know it it is.
It does feel like something when I enjoy it. It is more in the vein of baseball, like a thing that watches over me without a like specific goal in mind, possibly because I don't have a team that I root for more or less, so I just kind of, you know it is. I do kind of watch baseball as like an observation World Builder kind of scenario in general that I very little impact on. I guess Dared you had more rooting interest, but also doesn't really result in, like you set your
own goals in base That's what I'm saying. That's sir, so just to keep from going crazy, yeah, but very compelling. I certainly recommend at least watching UM. If this at all intrigues you, you can watch the creaked opening or search for many a true nerd um up imparadoor Rome on YouTube. I highly recommend that as a intro to the game UM and to give it a try and maybe buy it for us. I don't know. I'm not gonna start up We're not gonna start up Patreon, but we'll start to
go fund me for Ian to have new video games. And as I as I consumer video games, but not games like these. I think that's fair to say, right, Sure, I'm I'm interested by games like this. I just feel like it's like I would play this game to play with you guys, probably more than anything else. So and I I don't know. I've told Jared a few times, like I'm willing to get into it.
It sounds like there's definitely a learning curve though, so it's like, uh, you know, Red, Like I should clarify, I do not know how to play any of these games. I do play, though, I just don't know how because there are so many systems. And yeah, the learning curve to play it well is staggering. I might someone who has not
advanced up that curve at all. It's I mean, like you can read on these forms of people like tugging, like how many hundreds of hours you have to play before you have like a basic grasp of what you're doing? Interesting? It might be difficult, but yeah, yeah that sounds interesting. It sounds like it's like the sims on Supersteroids. Yeah, with a few more like cheval Rick Knights mhmm, more death, slightly more incessed, depending on how you want to play. I guess that's weird. Okay, yeah,
it definitely. Um, you definitely have to set up your own value system and arrange it to the Middle Ages or um, you know, I guess in this case, feudal or you know, Republic of Rome and the probably grace because certainly I would say some of the some of the actions that you take are not ideal for twenty nineteen has chromatic Oh dear, I know I would probably struggle with that. Yep, okay, okay, but you
don't have to. You just have to pay the cost so you can you can set the society you want, so you know there there is something interesting to that as well. Um. Meanwhile, while we were building society, Ben, you also had the best thing that you saw this week, right, Yeah. I wouldn't saw Hamilton in Detroit because that's the place that you go if you live in suburban Michigan to see Hamilton. Um. I went with my wife and her parents. It was it was great. I don't
I don't go to the theater a ton. I probably am like on the low end of the spectrum in terms of people that appreciate live theater. I guess we could get into why that probably is if we wanted to, but irrelevant. I really enjoyed it, and I think for me it was especially gratifying because when Hamilton's first burst on the scene and was, you know, super popular, I was coaching college ultimate frisbee, and a bunch of the
players on the team were super into Hamilton's. So I had heard the whole soundtrack and a few of the songs a good several dozen times before I ever wanted to, And so there are like some things that I was familiar with, but it was so much different seeing it in person. Of course. You know, It's like I don't think I appreciated going into it, how much more immersually have been entertaining, and you know, just awesome, how much more awesome it would be to experience it in person. So it was
great. So I encourage everybody to go. I also was thinking about this in terms of like my daughter, because now this is how I think of almost everything. It's like everything is reframed through this. And I don't know if you remember, Jared, but when we were in grade school, I think we went and saw lay Miss. Do you remember going to see ley Miss? I do not. Where did we see it? Like Kennedy Center?
Yeah, maybe I don't remember where it was, to be honest, and it could have been that, it could have been that it wasn't when we were in school together. But I have this like lasting memory of seeing ley Miss in grade school, and to me that marked ley Miss as like the musical you know, like especially as like a kid that wasn't into musical
theater. L Miss was like the be all end off for musicals because it was the one that I most vividly remembered seeing in person, that was like the most impressive when I saw it, the one who's like songs I actually still know a little bit of, despite you know, basically never going out of my way to listen to LMS songs. And I figured Hamilton has to be that for like our kid's generation, right, Like, like it seems like it's going to be not just a short term sort of thing, right,
It's going to be like an enduring thing. That's my sense of it. I don't know, right, I think the same way Rant was, but even more durable. Let's say, sure, well, I guess I will have to defer to you because I don't know anything about Rand. They're not going to pay it. That's like Benny's a hero through Mark all right, Sorry, getting all my rent hot takes. Out? Um, Yeah, I saw, I know what you mean. I saw, And I think I actually mentioned this on the podcast once, so I will not tell
the story to bore any long time listeners. But um, I saw Hamilton relatively early on, which is a benefit of being in New York and interested in theater. You know, I missed it in the public theater, unfortunately, but I did. I did get to see it with the original cast, which was very fortunate. And I also got to see it cold without having heard any of the songs. UM. How familiar were you with like the personal history of Alexander Hamilton ten dollar Bill Duel broad Strokes going in?
Yeah, you know, I think, I know, I probably knew a little bit more than average, just based on you know, me being interested in history, but I had not read the biography and I was not okay, I was. I was not super into that. UM. And I had also seen In The Heights and so I you know, I knew of Lynn Manuel Miranda. I did like In The Heights, but I wasn't over the moon about it, um. And you know, I saw it at the point where it was already like massively hyped. UM. But I think
before it hit the culture in that same way. And you know, walking in like I don't know, there's a little bit where there's so much expectation on something and you're like, okay, impressed me show. Yeah, And then I went there and I saw it and it was like magical. It was transcendent, and I remember there was a point I was like, I just like tears came to my eye, Like I couldn't believe I like something
this beautiful existed in the world. And I will tell you exactly is when, um it is when the Skylar Sisters are out there thinking about New York and I was like, oh, this is this is amazing, this is
like legitimately. Um, that was now when I would have guessed that tears came to your eyes, but no, it was, well, it's always about how amazing New York is my bed, but now it's that combination of like, uh, you know, I think Beyonce and US history just really did it for me, um, because you know, it was just a version of America that felt like it included me, you know, and I say like not obviously, um, not a personal color, but you know,
my grandparents came over on a boat not too long ago. You know, the stories of America. Like I'm pretty late in the game on that, and you know, I feel like there are a lot of people in America who don't like super appreciate being here, don't see it, you know, don't see that as like and the things I value as being important. And sometimes it's hard to feel, you know, it's hard to feel like an American when the phrase American is tied up with so many things that are
you know, that feel intentionally designed to alienate you. And to have a true American story and experience that helps me understand it really was like a I would say, the most American I've ever felt in that month. And that's interesting. Yeah, it didn't. It didn't strike me in a patriotic way, but I think that's probably my own personal shortcoming, Like I don't. I think it's just like a difference in the way that I think of my
patriotism or whatever. I don't know, whatever how you want to describe that. Maybe patriotisms even the wrong word anyway, Yeah, interesting, Yeah, And you know, I think like time dulls the impact of even the greatest
of musicals. Sure, Like you know, I think Lams was incredibly powerful when it came out, and I would say, La midstill whole somehow, but you know, eventually everything feels like Harisel or you know that, and I feel that happened to Hallton, like these songs are becoming standards, and you know, I feel like on some level it will not have the immediacy that it does or like Rent, which feels like a museum piece at this point, I wasn't such a fan contemporaneously, but like it struggles to hold
up. But you know, I think on some level, just I don't know that it will impact other people the way it did me then, But like you said, I think it's going to have a tremendous just this tremendous like cultural dominance. I think it will be the story of the aughts, and you know, they some like weaving an American tale. Eventually, the movie will come out in a decade, and you know, substitute teachers will put it on the same way. I watched seventeen seventy six the musical,
which is, by the way, pretty great. I highly recommend seventeen seventy six. It is wacky, um there and there there is a seventeen seventy six call out by the way, in h Hamilton. So really yeah, it's a combination of like musical theater, modern hip hop and like uh improv and it was really like placed just right at the core of my being.
So I did appreciate that. But yeah, again, like saying go to Hamilton is almost tautological, like everyone knows that, but it really is a special thing, like if you are in the position where you can consider it. Yeah, um, yeah, a great Glen's seen it. Yeah, I'm a terrible person. I am polish. Have you have you heard any
of the soundtrack? I've actually avoided it for the most part. I mean I'm not going to say I've never heard any bit of Hamworthoni that's not true, but I mean partially intentionally, so I haven't listened to it, right, I agree, you know, it's interesting, like the soundtrack was definitely released in order to get the musical in front of everybody, so I think, you know, very intentionally it is a song opera, the same way m le mass in order to be understandable end to end. So it's like
a complete experience that way. But yeah, I am personally happy that I did not see it. But I think Ben, like you said, I think you can have experienced it and then see it and still feels different. Right. Well, yeah, and I guess maybe this is just me. And again I'm fully willing to accept that I experienced musical theater much different than others. But I don't think I got the meaning from listening to the soundtrack in any way the same like magnitude as I did from like seeing the performance.
Yeah, I would say the same thing, you know, having watched or like the other order. Um, they stand alone. But yeah, I do um, Jared, I hope it comes to DC at some point. It has, I'm kidding. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly you know, um, it ain't cheap probably anywhere, and it's definitely a decision that you have to make. But I do also concur it's pretty pretty great, Jared. What musical do you recommend instead? Guys and Dolls? Guys and Dolls that's pretty solid too. I love Guys and Dolls so much.
No, I mean, I don't know, I haven't. Part of it was the price part of it. It's just been so hyped that like, I don't want to. I feel like if I saw it now, I would not like it, and I don't want to do that. Yeah, I don't know how to mitigate that, but it's very it's very very tricky um, because like it. I think it was one of the things that actually stood up to it for me. But the hype at this point is
so it's so tough that I don't know that anything can withstand that. Yeah, but um, you know if if, if you are in the right frame of mind, I don't know. At some point, Um I do. I do recommend seeing it on the sooner side, just again, like to with the power of the moment just dissipates over time. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, I think those concerns or whatever that you were describing aren't going to get better as time passes. So yeah, like like your hesitation
is only going to grow. It's like, well, I guess it's okay to say you're never gonna see it if that's I mean, I want to see it, but also I don't want to spend like two hundred dollars to go in being like, oh, I'm just not gonna like this because it's not as good as I wanted to be. M Okay, Yeah, my thoughts about that are too lengthy to continue to talk about. See you next week and report back. Um, let's do all right, So, Jared, what is the best thing you saw this week. Oh man, we
can. That's all three of us stop for eight this week? Yes, so we uh it's pass Over. We did our saders and pass Over is my least favorite and most favorite holiday. I think least favorite and because I can't eat anything, I like all the stuff. I like the you can a pass over it's awful when I hate it. But the sad there's are always a lot of fun. And in particular our Sadiers because my brothers and I have edited are hagatta Um. It's the blend of things that we like
in hagata Um. So it starts off with a song to the theme of the Muppet Show, and um my dad has introduced finger puppets into a couple parts of the thing. So I mean we get like the good parts starts. But yeah, it's like it's a fun time. This year. This year, we um, we actually wandered around the desert, so like we got up out of the table and wander around our house like we're water around the jets. So it was fun. It was a good time. I
always like saders. I like that you lark your saders. We just ad this year and I highly recommend it. Okay, anyway, I also really like it because usually our stadiers are pretty like big saders and usually invite lots of like nan jush people and just sort of shared with them. This year, you know, for family stuff, we just kept it. We kept it really small, which was fine, but it was nice to just type
I went together anyway. Um. The the other best part of the sader is the food, because my mom always cooks really good food, and even though pass they were as awful, the FRUGI makes the first couple of nights are good. But this year we were blessed to add some brisket courtesy of Ben. So thank you Ben, who sent us brisket from Franklin, Austin. And we've all been there in person, but I think we can all
attest that frozen and then reheated Franklin holds up. Yeah. I was gonna say, like, it's surprisingly close to what it's like having it at the restaurant, right like like when I first heard of this. So this is the second time I've partaken of the cooked and then vacuum sealed and then recooked or reheated I guess brisket. Like the first time, I was like, uh, it's so good. That like, even if it weren't as good, it would still be worth it. But it was better than I was
expecting. I don't know, was that your experience to Jared? Yeah, no, I agree completely. Brisket is something that my family takes very seriously. It has driven us apart. My mom a couple of years ago made two different kinds of brisket and I liked one. My brother's like the other version, and like, this is something that comes up many times over the course of the year about how I like the run brisket, Like it's a
brisket is a serious thing in my family. So we had it the first night and there were zero complaints about the brisket, which is just something that does not happen in my family. We complain about everything. So I don't know how it happened, but yes, everyone everyone liked it, and I agree it held up really well. I was super worried and it was really tasty. Yeah, there's an aspect to it, which is like Hamilton, which is that when we all went to Franklin barbecue it. If you have
not heard of it, you know you can google it. If you have heard of it, you probably heard of the massive hype behind it, and you're like, oh, this thing cannot possibly stand up to this level of hype, like everyone telling you, oh, this is the best thing I ever, and they were like, okay, well I'll prove it. Yeah. And then when you go to these things that are massively hyped and they turn out to actually be the best thing ever, Yeah, it's like actually
exceed your expectations somehow. It's like magic. You're like, oh yeah, and like, you know, at least the way Jared and I experienced it, we were on a road trip through Texas and we had spent the week I won't say like exclusively, but massively eating brisket, each one, you know, better and better. Honestly, like where East Coast kids, this was all the best brisket in our lives, I think, right, yeah, I mean Mom's brisket aside of course, yeah naturally, but yeah,
like without question. And then you know you're like, well, how much better can this be? Like why are people waiting six and a half hours for this brisket? And then you go and you're like, oh, because it's so much better everything else, which until today I thought was like mind blowing. Yeah. I think it's because I like food more than I like musical theater, but Franklin's was definitely a bigger deal for me than Hamilton.
It was like, and the way that I first experienced Franklins was like, you're gonna get up freaking early on a Saturday because your buddy wants to do this thing. And if we're being honest, the buddy that we're doing it for is not known for having great ideas about stuff. So I was like very skeptical and it turned out awesome and it was like, Wow, that was even better than I expected it would be, which I guess was true for Hamilton too, But I really like that parallels the fun parallel. Yeah.
And by the way, if you are ever going to Austin and you are a meat eater, if you if you're a vegetarian, I am so sorry there's nothing for you. But if you if you are a meeting my one Frankly barbecue hack, which is a little easier than it used to be, just order online. Yeah, you will spend too much. You will
get too much back. You can bring it back with you in a you know, on the plane, but um, even spending too much on brisket is not a ridiculous price for let's say, a nice meal anywhere else and you just get to skip the line. I generally agree with that, but I do think that there's something to the line experience. And if you listen to I don't even what podcast that was, you send us a podcast link
to Aaron Frankston actually talking about this with David Chang. Yeah, yeah, he talks about it, but you know, part of part of what he's about is the like experience of being there and like the waiting in line and being with the other people that are waiting in line, and that that shared
experience aspect to it is definitely part of what he's about. So I guess if you do order online, try to go early enough that there's still going to be people like outside waiting and maybe just imagine what that is like. Yeah, what I am about is life hacks well, And so I mean, I totally agree with you that generally it's a better use of your time to order online. That's what I did this time, but I didn't even personally go and pick it up. I had I had help, fortunately from
somebody that was willing to go and pick it up for me. So I didn't I'm very much a hypocrite in this regard, but I think that like part of the experience is that being there. But yeah, if you, if you can have brisket, I think all three of us would highly recommend in touring Coston and doing this once in your life, making a pilgrimage. Yeah, all right, anything else? Did we for everything this week? Sure to join us again next week or two weeks for whatever. This is
scoresy plus. We told you, we told you this was going to go this way. Yeah uh, and it has um Email us your thoughts or questions about your scoresy team Hamilton and or life at scores at Baseball Perspectives dot com. We would love to hear from you. We'll definitely talk more about baseball if we get more questions. Yeah, oh boy, that's either a threat or a promise. That's very true. Why not both? All right? On that note on behalf of Ben Murphy and Jared Wise, I am
eating leftwitz. Thanks again, and have a great day.