Welcome to this League Uncut.
Rule of twenty four hour NBA News. This is you, Chris Hans. It's time, works time, it's so time. This League Uncut is underway and on fire. This should be a good one.
Friends, Welcome in to a long awaited return edition of This League Uncut. You guys got to know. It's the time of year. In August, in September, we.
Only do.
A few episodes per month. We do dial it back to recharge for the season ahead. In October we will be back to full speed, two pods a week. But we had to get together for this because this past weekend absolutely momentous for the league as a whole, but also on a personal level. Because our dear friend Mark Spears, former teammate for both Chris and I, former neighbor in the Bubble co resident of the famed Walt Disney World Bubble in Orlando, we all live together for a summer,
We all work together. Now we all three work for separate entities, but we remain family. And this League Uncut wanted to give a formal, official, directly delivered verbal hat tip to mister Spears because he is the twenty twenty three winner of the Kurt Goudi Award for Print Media Excellence, awarded by the Basketball Hall of Fame. There is no higher honor in our profession, and it is now officially in Mark spears possession. He got his ring on Friday,
gave a beautiful speech, both he and Holly Row. Holly Row, of course from ESPN, the Electronic Division, winner of the Kirk Goudi Award for twenty twenty three. Beautiful speeches from both of them, as graded by my wife who watched them both on television. I was privileged to be in the audience for it. A hearty welcome from Haines and Stein to Mark Spears, kurk Goudi winner. How does it feel, man? How different do you feel every morning now when you wake up?
Man?
I got that ring in the hallway, you know, hiding out, but something to look at. And you know, now we're teammates again, right where teammates in the Hall of Fame.
Chris will get there one day too. No, I've been really.
Trying to put in perspective everything and it's been very difficult, you know, because, as you said, this is the highest honor. I'm not like, respectfully thinking, I don't even know what else compares, right, Maybe something with an ABJ.
Hall of Fame or something may mean something to me too.
But to be on that list where you see Jackie and Aldridge and will Bond and you know Smith and Stein and Ryan.
And don't put me in there, all.
These like legendary McMullen, you know, all these legendary names, Pete VESSI Yeah, it's just it's really humbling, and it feels amazing to know that as long as that building exists, my name will be in it. Right now, you might if you blink, you might miss it.
It's in there.
And it's funny Mark because you know, like usually they have events at the Hall of Fame, but they didn't have any at all other than like post parties. So I had to like get snuck into the Hall of Fame so I could see my name because I was like, I can't leave without seeing my name on this thing.
And my mom had went the night before, and like that picture of my mom standing next to like where my name was means more to me than my picture next to it, man, just the fact that you know, my mom saw it, and I can celebrate my mom and my wife, my dad, my.
Sister, all these folks that are important to me, and.
I don't get there without them like that, like the fact that my mom got to stand up at the speech and do her little you know, Miss America wave and all that like that, all those moments are like priceless to me. So as you can see, I'm still trying to figure out how to feel about it.
Spears. When you.
When you're inducted, I want you to take me through a little bit of your journey, your path because me seeing you up there is like it's it's personal to me because you're my guy first and foremost, but.
I think we have similar paths.
And when I.
See you up there doing that man like that, that brings me so.
Much joy because you aren't supposed to be up there, man, you know what I mean.
It wasn't set up for you to.
Be up there.
So when you're looking through your background, when you're looking at the beginnings, and.
I was like, remember the video game Dragons Layer, I.
Feel like talk, let's go real, talk. Tell me it's just just through you know, the the path to flight to get to get to that point and what resonates with you when you think about all that.
You know, a lot of it starts with the beginning. Man.
You know, I wasn't no great student, not that I couldn't have been a great student. I was, you know, Chris, you know it, like you know, in a lot of ways, you're a product or your environment. And if people don't get on you about grades, if people don't tell you what could happen if you don't succeed in that realm, and how much more difficult it could be, then you know you're you're you're going to suffer through it. And
so like I learned. The great thing though, was I did find out in the seventh grade, which really put me ahead of the game, that I wanted to be a sports writer. I grew up reading Sports Illustrated as a kid and reading the Santas and Mercury News and reading anything sports. I just read the sports page in the morning. And then in the seventh grade, you know, guy from the Warriors came to my junior high school, Silvindale Junior High School in San Jose, And at this point,
I'm like in love with the game of basketball. I'm going to sand Lea State basketball camp. You know, I'm dreaming of playing in the NBA. And for some reason, the guy asked me what I wanted to do when I grew up, and I said, I want to play for y'all. I'm playing the NBA. And he's like, but what if you get hurt? What if something happens to you? And I just remember that he saw this stat in Sports Illustrated at that time, and you know this was,
you know, dating myself. This is eighty four, so the influx and international NBA players starning correct me, it hasn't.
Happened yet five years away.
The bonus is there. Maybe there's a handful of guys.
Not really, but it said that less than two percent of all college basketball players make it to the NBA.
And that stat really struck a chord with me.
So when the guy from the Warriors said that, I thought about it and I'm like, wow, you know this, this is I'd be really hard to make the league. And he said, well, you combined with what you love most in life and what you do best in school, you have a job you're happy with every day. So I thought about it. I sucked in science, I sucked in math, but I could write I love sports. I'm reading Sports Illustrated to Mercurynews every day, like why not
be a sports writer? I was like, I kind of came up with the idea, the next best thing is to be there if I can't play there. And so I wrote a letter to Mark Purdy from the sounds of Mercurynews, who and I think Stein's probably met him longtime legendary Calmas and he literally Chris in the seventh grade wrote me back, tell me everything I needed to do from seventh grade through college to be a sports writer. Like, come on, man, like, how many like how many letters
and email? Not letters, but how many emails do we get? How many instagram like things that we get? So I try to like take those seriously because, like, I know, it made an impact on me that somebody like I didn't meet Purty until like twenty four years later at the Beijing Olympics.
But if he didn't write that letter, I'm not here right. So then I go to.
That is amazing.
That is amazing that he did.
That, And now we don't even have a path to write down. At least that is what you and I had. It didn't guarantee you were going to get there, but at least there was a blueprint to follow nowadays, there isn't even a blueprint.
And he's like, right about writing on the school paper in junior high, I was writing on the school paper in the seventh grade cover the eight grade flag football team.
That's where the mark J.
Spears came from.
Christian I never told you that. No, No, it's.
The seventh grader's decision to put the J there. That's why. That's why it's there.
That was my first byline on a go to eight grade flag football team, and I just kept it that way. And anybody's like, take all the typing classes you can in high school, and I took typing one, two, and three, which and you guys know is important to learn how to type right, and.
It still didn't learn how to do it right.
Yeah, And then in college, he said, take as many internships she was possible writing the school paper. So I was definitely not getting drafted with my little pivoty college basketball career. But you know, by the time I was graduating from college and then I entered at the Dallas Morning News after I graduated, I felt like a first round pick in terms of talent as a journalist, as a writer. You know, National Association Black journalists helped me with that too, and so but where I messed up
my high school grades weren't good. I was basically like I just needed two point zero to be eligible, and I had an opportunity to play basketball Columbia University out of high school.
Ivy League school and.
The top journalists and programs in the country, and they wanted me till they saw my grades.
So I had to go to junior college route.
So in a lot of ways, I could have made the path a lot easier for me, you know, coming going from my Ivy League school. But as one of my friends told me, man, it all worked out. I I just had to go to alternative JUCO D two D one route to finally end up graduating and getting an opportunity to get into this business.
You are, you know, I always say. For me, I felt like I was so lucky and that I had so many mentors when I was really young when I started out, and so I love being older now and I've always loved being a mentor when I can. But you are the mentor, like so many people who cover the league, you know. Malika Andrews was up there hosting the ceremonies on Friday Night, and she was telling everybody stories of you mentoring her when she was just a
college student. What do you remember about when Chris Haynes blipped onto your radar?
Man, No, Christians story is really interesting and I don't know if it's really documented. I think you might have talked about it once. I mean, you do so many podcasts you probably I can't keep up.
I remember.
So the interesting thing about Chris was like he just showed up around out of nowhere in Portland and it's just like brother in the locker room and Wide Eye Bush, you tell dude. And he made you pay attention because he was getting these scoops from Dame and CJ. Like he's like, you know, you're on hoops HIPing like Chris Haynes. They hell is Chris Hanes? Like where's he getting this information?
I'm going to tell the Quincy pondexter story after.
This and so but in a lot of ways, he was able to figure out a way to break news from the Portland Beat and you were like working for SLAM as a part time dude, right, and so he's breaking these news and it made you pay attention to like, all right, who's this this this cat, like who is Chris Hayes, right, Like you know, like who is Jill Scott?
Who's Chris Hages Like We're trying to figure this out, right.
So then I'm going to some games there and we met, and I mean, Chris probably could tell this portion better. I was encouraging him to be a part of n NBJ and what can I do to help you? And his ability to break news eventually gave him an opportunity with NBC Northwest And that's when you know, you start seeing on TV and he starts bringing out is his comedic personality and you know, starts talking crazy and all that.
But he had scoop, he had news, and so I don't know if this story has ever been told, Like Lebron goes back to Cleveland and Chris and I talk about the Cavaliers be and at that time I was Charita n ABJS Sports Task Force, which is basically the Black Sports Writers Group, and Chris correct me if I'm wrong.
Man.
I was like, Chris, you got to get this job, man, you got this job at the Plaine Dealer comes and you need to apply and I'm gonna put in a word for you. And he applied and ended up getting it. And you got to remember that Chris wasn't coming from the typical newspaper background, and so I told Chris, I don't know if anybody else is Chris.
So I said, Chris, I.
Didn't want to do it too. I did not want to do it, But go ahead.
Chris, can you write on deadline? Because he hadn't had to do it, he was writing for a website and then writing for him.
I like, but do you know how to write game stories on deadline? He's like no.
I said, well, you can't go there and not know how to write stories on deadline.
Man.
He's like, oh man, I'm like, look, I want you to, like all these Summer League games you're going to, whether you're at home or whether you're there, I want you to write deadline on these Summer League games as if you're covering them.
So Stein, I'm pissed because because I went to Summer League, but I'm transitioning to covering the CAF. So I technically didn't have to work. So my plan was to be in Summer League, at Summer League in Vegas and network and just like talk talk to people. But Spears was like no, I need you to write like send me gamers right at the buzzer for some of the some of the games which required me to go to games that I had no desire to go see or watch and go do it. But I know I did it
because it was right. I never was I was never on deadline.
That is an awesome big brother thing to do, though, to make you do that.
You know that you know that story.
I never I never knew that story.
He did it, He did it. He did more than three or four games I think he did.
Yeah, with quotes and with quotes and everything.
Like, oh yeah, I made him updated with quotes.
Yeah maybe yeah, maybe turn the game are in like real inside baseball stuff.
But this is no I'm sure young journalism students want to hear this.
Yeah, so he you know, because if you don't know, it's easy to say, yeah, I want to go cover this team and whatever. But you got to learn how to write on deadline if you're writing for a newspaper or writing for a place that covers a team, because you got it. So that was the one piece that he had to learn. Like he knew how to write a feature story. He knew how to write a news story. But Stern, you know this, that's coming up in the
newspaper ranks. If he couldn't write on deadline, those editors, those copy editors, would have destroyed him, absolutely destroyed him and perhaps even destroyed his career. So then he did it, kept getting better, mastered it, so by the time he got to Cleveland it was an issue. They didn't even know.
I promise you, if any of my former editors are listing, they'll say Stein never learned how to write on it. That's a bomb for David. That's really that's really good.
No, never told that story. Yeah he did.
And how did you do? How? How did you did you pick it up quick?
I wouldn't say I picked it up quick because it was it was definitely a learning experience.
I didn't. It's tough, like especially like some games.
And this is where I realized, like the process of writing stories at the Buzzer is that some games.
Sometimes most games, you probably had to have.
A good feel who's going to win, and so you could kind of build seventy five percent of your your article probably by the end of you know, by the start the fourth quarter. But the problem is when that game is back and forth, especially in the last minutes of the game. You're doing a lot of deleting, a lot of correcting, and it gets tough, and those are
the tough, toughest games. And so that's what I found out during Summer League, Like, damn, okay, I'm going to have to figure out how to get better at these games that are close to the end, because you know, you you have to highlight key moments during the game, but when a moment is so when a game is going back and forth, you really don't know what that key moment is until the end of the game.
And so that that that definitely helped me. I wasn't prepared. I didn't have that experience before.
And could you imagine taking the starting that job and being green on that No.
Well, his I mean, Chris, Chris's story should be a movie. I mean that what you what you know, how you broke in. I mean, I've never heard a story like Bodyguard. Yeah, you know, because again I think I think I think we were I think we were lucky that at least we had the path. Again, there were no guarantees, but you know, you started out answering phones, covering high schools and you knew how to work your way up and you know, with survival of the fitness from there. But
at least there was a path. I feel so sad when I talk to college kids now because there is no clear cut path. There is no Mark Purty to even write to it. Most of the newspaper staffs.
I'm gonna disagree with you with that, because you know you'd be glum talking to these kids. Man, I gotta get you to perk up. He was coming in with this black cloud, you know what I mean. Like you're doing quite well. I'm doing quite well, Broke bro Like there's a path. But I actually think it's easier for these kids now because they can blindly send me an email on or a message on Instagram.
They could blindly go to LinkedIn and I'm not a LinkedIn.
Person, but hit me there and perhaps I you know, but there have been conversations I've had with kids who send me a message on Instagram or send me a tweed or something like that. And there been times where you know, we all get quite busy, but it's that the squeaky wheel person. Hey man, hey man, I'm here. That typically I'm the one, they're the one. I end up, you know, getting on the phone with when it's it's difficult to get on the phone.
But there is like this.
Mark Purty guilt that I always have, like it's their access to us is so easy. Now you can't I can't talk to fifty people, right, Yeah, So I hope it's like podcasts like this or other things that like they have the ability now to go on Google and or YouTube and hear Stein's story, hear my story here, Chris's story, And even if they don't get a chance to speak to us, there's so many ways that they could hear be inspired by what we did.
Let me start, let me add this.
Yeah, a couple more on background with Spears and how we met. We actually we actually I emailed Spears and before I was this is my bodyguard stage, so it's my bodyguard fade. So I actually emailed Spears and tell him about what I wanted to do. And he was the first one that told me about in ABJ National Association Black Journalists like coming to the convention. And I've never heard of it before, so first time I've heard about it. So I actually met him in person at INABJ twenty ten.
Hey, remember Philadelphia.
Yeah.
So the reason I'm gonna tell you why it's important, that why that always sticks. So coming from where I came from in Fresno, Spears no like I'm a Spears is.
I call Spears Boogie. We all call him boogie. He's Boogie. I'm the mom and pop shot.
Like when I go to a certain plate, when I go to certain cities, I want to go to the hood. I want to go to the mom and pop shot. That's just where I'm come. I'm comfortable in those places.
You know what I'm saying. That's just me.
Spears has got you knows as he's gotten bigger and pockets got bigger.
You know, he's expanded, hish his palette.
I haven't.
My palette is still minimized, still limited, vegetable. I got some letters on it now I got let.
But I actually met him at n ANBJ and when I went that's the first time I met him. I when I I remember, I remember I went to him and he just had this big smile.
Because you don't know, like.
These people you look up to and you see writing these big stories, getting all these breaking these news, getting all these exclusive interviews, because that's what Spears was like Spears when you know Stein Spears would come to you. I would look at before I knew him, before he knew me. I would I see him from afar. How he would just go to all these different NBA teams, show up at a practice, and the teams just let him walk anywhere you wanted to walk, He'll go talk
to you. He'll just pull anybody to the side, like pool players that don't usually talk to media, and you just see like the pool yeah, and I'm like, damn, like, how does dude get like this?
You know what I mean?
So Philadelphia running to him and he has this big smile, hugs me, you know he you knows big and he hugs you. And he was just really embracing and that being at that convention, that's where we exchange phone numbers, and I took a picture and I still got that picture. I still got the pictures my first time. Yeah, I got the picture. I'll send it. I'll send it to you, both of you guys. And he would ask me how
did I enjoy myself and my liking it? And one thing stile When I was at this convention, I'm twenty eight at the time and when I was there, running into Spears, running into Jamil or steven A. I've never seen so many black people dressed up and looking good in suits and professional people, not just that they were all so welcoming. And I've never been around my people in that type of environment, you know.
And so it just and then not just that, Spears.
I don't know if I told you this, but when I went where I come from, it's normal for us to graduate college at twenty eight or thirty.
You know what I mean, Like that's normal. You know what I'm saying.
You start college, you may take some time off, deal with life, you come back whatever. So when I went to NABJ, I'm seeing I call them kids. They twenty two to twenty three, and they were already working at ESPN, and they had these jobs that I've never heard about, like behind the scenes jobs. And I left that convention so motivated. I left it so motivated I left. I left kind of heartbreaking because I felt like I wasted majority of my twenties. But I left just even more inspired.
And that's because Spears told me to go, and I got to see how how it is that we could live. And then six months later that's what I really did get my got the Portland job. And so it was because of Spears telling me to go to that. It was because of Spears, the the then the welcoming embrace that he gave me, and not just me, he gives that to everybody, as you mentioned, Star, And that's the tough part. That's where I feel guilty at because Spears is somebody came at our store yesterday.
Spears, who was that?
It was?
Some woman came at our store yesterday, Star, I kid you not came at our store yesterday.
It was a store.
I'm plugging too big ties.
Everyone who listens to this show knows about Charlene's beauty supply in Elk Grounds, California. Everybody knows anybody goes to Sack.
We did a live pod there. They're doing that the stories.
But what Channel Channel ten does like a running feature every week.
But you could tell.
I forgot the lady's name, Ashley Jones.
She came into the store and she was telling my wife, Hey, Mark Spears is my guy.
It's caught my my wife off guard, like.
You know, he's my my mentor, you know, he told me to come through here.
And she brought her mom in there.
Then I just so happened to walk in the store while they were there shopping. Then she came to me and tell me Mark Spears, and I'm just like, That's the part I feel guilty about Stein is that, you know, I know, the the interaction that me and Spears had and this you know we first met, but he has that with hundreds of people, and I am bad at getting back to people, you know, on this mentoring game. And I know how much it helped me to ask Spears look out for me. And it's tough like that,
I know, I know, it's just it's tough, man. It's tough.
So that's where I always feel guilty at.
And I pay homage for him because he does he does that part of the business so well.
The legendary Mark Spears newly minted Kurt Goudy Award winner, Basketball Hall of Fame's highest honor for a reporter. Ceremony was just Friday. You got your ring. What's the story? I'm sure everybody asked you the same question. You know, what's the first thing you tell people about the weekend? What's what comes to you? I mean, there's so many
things you run into so many these great players. And that's what, Like, you know, I was giving you a hard time during the ceremony, like Artist Gilmore is sitting behind you, and like Artist Gilmore doesn't doesn't say, you know, I can't say that I've ever had any extensive conversations with him.
A but Artist gilbour real quick. They had this, you know, they had this room that you go in before, like this VIP room. Right, So I going in there and I get there early, like my wife's not even ready yet, right, Like, I go in there by myself because I want to, Like I told her, I'm like I gotta squeeze all this in because I got access, right, like, I gotta get as much as so I get there early.
And the only people there, like.
He's there, and Artist Gilmore is there, and again, what's my man?
Calvin Murphy? Calvin Mury probably got there in the morning, right.
God, he looks good. How does he look so good at his age?
So Artist Gilmore came and like I was sitting at this table getting I got some food and some waters and stuff, and he sat down and I tried to engage with him, told him who I was.
He had no idea who I was and tried.
To engage with him about some ABA stories that Danisel told me.
He'm interested, But I took a picture with you know what I mean.
I mean it's just.
About is like I had extra seats at my table so him and his boy could sit there. And it was actually kind of funny because I think it was his brother in law. I know, artist gilboy might be bad I tell this story, but his brother in law is like, man, all these all these Hall favorites coming in here, I gotta take pictures. Act like you've been here before. Man, Act like you don't need to take pictures with nobody. These were like, these are like dudes my dad's age, you know what I mean.
He like, he's like, yeah, you're right, You're right, You're right. Like to see Tony.
Tony gave me a lot of love and Henri, my Arsenal brother, the Arsenal legend. He was there and we talked a lot about his Galazzo show. Chris doesn't know what we're talking about.
Stott.
You know that's awesome. I didn't know you get to see him. I only saw him for a brief seton so you didn't get some time. Yeah, that's awesome. Carry on read the legend part of Tony Parker's party celebrating Tony's.
Yeah, and you know, Dwayne Wade showed me a lot of love.
So that was like cool, but it's weird because Chris, you would have tripped out seeing this.
So I take the escalator down, and I'm like, you.
Know you when you say this speech, like I had to be on I felt like I was going on TV. I was going on TV, like, but I felt like I had to be mentally right.
I had to, you know, have my glasses be ready.
Felt like I had to turn the energy up, and so I wasn't in like a real like shake hand, kiss baby mode at that time.
But I take the escalator down. In the first pylon.
Is my picture on it, Like you know, we had this picture of me, but it's the first thing you saw when you went down into Friday ceremony.
So that was a trip. Like I don't know what they did with it.
I wish I had at it, like, but that was that's when it like really hit that it was real. But perhaps the biggest thing was just I think my mom just getting the ability to tell my mom thank you in front of a national audience is like great, you know for her to And that's funny because Artist Gilmore sitting behind me, so I think you figured out who I was afterwards.
Yeah, now you know he's before Chris. Chris once made me upset on this show because he The White Shadow was before his time and he was not He was not up to speed on the greatness of my favorite ever television show. So, like I always say, Artist Gilmore might have been in like one episode in three seasons. I don't even know if he was in that. But like Artist Gilmore was constantly talked about on The White
Shadow because Coach Reeves was a fictional Chicago bull. So Artist gil or his royalty even even if he didn't give you the warmest of embraces.
But you know, my my cousin, do you know you're familiar with uh.
Yeah, someone actually just I didn't know that story, but you tell the story. But someone actually just told me that Washburn told me about this.
So Curtis Jackson on The White Shadow played by Eric Kilpatrick is married to my cousin Christine. Amazing, who was that? Who was there? She came to the Hall of Fame stuff.
That's dope.
So like when when Gary met on he you know, you know washes, Hey, he takes pictures with all the like blaxploitation actors.
Well, he didn't tell me. He didn't tell me he took a picture. He left that part out. Well I would have too, for sure.
Like take the picture with the dude from the chef, you know, and which way is up?
All the old Arnold will let's.
See take pictures with dev you know, surely from what happened rerun, Dwayne.
I mean, that was my other favorite show besides White Shadow.
Okay, a star our Street cred right.
There, don't make me start doing lines from the show Spirits.
I know you didn't think about entering the Hall of Fame in this capacity.
I don't know if this was a goal of yours.
But aside from that, was there a moment in your career were you, like if not thought you had a chance at this, at getting into this, But was there a moment of your career where you realize like, yeah, I made it, like great things might be in store, Like was there any point.
You know you're gonna laugh at this?
I thought, And when I'm when I say this, you're not gonna think it's not shade, it's actually respect. Right when Stein made it, I said, man, maybe I might have a shot in like eight to ten years, because because I like, he's my the beginning of my generation, right, because Stein been covering it since what.
Six No, I'm sorry, ninety three, No, ninety three, ninety four, So this high season, this season coming up is thirty one for me.
Yeah, And so I started six years after him. So when Stein made it, which I expected him to make it, but when he made it, I'm like, maybe I might have a shot in like eight five to ten years something like that, I might have a shot. So I was super excited for him when he got in. He's got the humility of people in the Bible, you know what I mean, just got some of the greatest humility I've ever seen. And a lot of people don't know that.
Me and Mark and I don't know. You know this, Chris, we worked together at the LA So I was at the LA Daily News very briefly, like ninety seven and
ninety eight. Stein was covering the Lakers, Washington was covering to Clippers, and then I was covering the Angels and the Dodgers and backup on and covered cal State Northridge football and basketball and sold the crazy thing about that is like stein Lee's and they brought remember Howard Becken in to cover the Lakers, and you know, I think Gary and I were.
Hoping We're gonna get bumped up.
Didn't happen, and then Gary and I eventually left. But I realized while covering that Cal State Northridge basketball that baseball was I was at an Angels game and I remember a guy was calling pitches, you know what I mean, stein Like. He was like, that's a curveball, that's a slider, that's a sinker. And I'm like, how do you know these pitches? And he's like, oh, I played college baseball. So I'm like, why am I covering baseball? I need to cover basketball, That's.
What I know.
And I was enjoying. I had just covered Arkansas Nolan Richardson and then so now I'm covering cal State northadge in the Big Sky, going to games in Montana, Montana, State, Northern Arizona, Eastern Washington. And I enjoyed that more than I love cover Major League baseball. And that's why I left and went to Louisville Kentucky to cover college basketball. So it wasn't even really an NBA dream at first.
It was just a basketball dream. So I was covering, you know, I was a general assignment reporter and Louisville, Kentucky, which basically means I generally signed to do whatever the hell they wanted me to do. I did everything from cover a league when he was named athlete is Century in Kentucky, to Martin McGuire breaking the home run record, to University of Louisville's women volleyball and some auto race where I was the only black person there and the pre race meal was fried chicken.
Yeah.
So I ended up doing all.
I broke this Tim Couch going to the NFL story and met Michael Eves at that time, and I'm doing a lot of Kentucky and Louisville football and basketball, and I'm like, okay. They had and Stein knows her Ashley mcgahe was covering University of Louisville women's men's and women's i mean football and men's basketball at the time, so she was leaving to cover the Sixers and they were going to promote me to cover U of L full time.
Danny Crumb was the head coach. I was like, cool, this is great.
And then Neil Scarborough was sports hittor at the Denver Post, who I met at NABJ, called me and said, how you like it there in Louisvull. I'm like, oh, man, it's cool getting my feet wet. And he's like, you're interested in coming to Denver Nuggets And I'm like, when can I leave? And I didn't really have I had basketball dreams, I didn't necessarily have NBA dreams, and I had to get Brad Turner credit Brad Turner covering the
NBA forever for the LA Times. I talked to Brad about it and he's like, yeah, man, you got to make that move. You got to make that move. And so you know, I started covering the NBA at the Denver Post and the great Mike Monroe, man like from the day I got there, he put his arm around me and was a big brother to me. And you know, legendary rider who should certainly be in the Hall of
Fame as well. Yes, for sure, so he he certainly could have been a jealous dude, which I faced from other people and didn't want to help the only thing the funny thing though. The first game Chris like the Nuggets lost about like forty and he's like, this is your team now?
He was the NBA, right, was that that.
Was d'An toni coaching?
Then?
No, this was ninety season after so Moreau was in Denver before San Antonio.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I didn't know that.
But it's so funny. It's so funny about Monroe because in those days, Monroe was inseparable with all the Texas writers. He wasn't in Texas yet, but it's like you only you only ever saw him with David Moore from the Dallas Murray News and fran Blindberry from the Houston Chronicle and Back Harvey from the San Antonio Express News. So Scott Howard, Scott, Howard Cooper and I won the Laker beet in Dallas.
Don't forget him?
Yeah, Brad Townsend, No.
No, another one covers the maths now.
Price Oh, d Moore and Brad Townsend were the Morning News, got no and cepco and yeah, so Howard Cooper and I covered the Lakers. We used to call them the Texas Mafia. And even though Monroe was in Denver, he was he was part of it because he was he was always with them, and then of course ended up in San Antonio himself.
Yeah, yeah, no Monroe.
I called Monroe Monroe.
He was He was of huge help to me and I love him dearly man, and just never was anything but helpful. Never once an ounce of like hate or this kid or nothing like that.
Actually, now you just sparked. You sparked a question that I have to ask you, So I'm not going to go too deep in the details, but the Denver Post and the Rocky Mountain News in those days did not love each other, and so you come in, how did you How did you deal with that? Because the stories that I was told was that the papers sitting next to each other at Nuggets games would not would not necessarily even utter a word to each other.
No, I definitely hated Jim that.
I thought.
You know, I wasn't expecting that, er, Chris, you should.
This was like there were rivalries, and you know, we all have our own rivalries, but you know, this is the beat. Writers live with each other, they travel every day.
But but there was.
There was no discussion between the newspapers.
When I first got there, there was a writer who no end up being a great calmness, but he was covering the beat. I won't say his name, but he his main guy was George McLeod. George McLeod was giving him all that fault and I was like, I'm gonna get him. Go a vent ex mcd's McLeod. Everybody raife and I was able to get in with everybody quickly, but he was only like close to George, and so he used to always tell me, what, you're a players guy,
You're a players guy. It was like his assive aggressive way of yeah, yeah, you know you've been here where He's like, why why should I feel guilty because the players are giving me information like I mean Dan, and so what is my guy now?
But at that time he won't.
Get me nothing right like and but you know how it is like why do I need them when I could just get it from the players. And so the guy would constantly say you're a player's guy, You're a player's guy.
I knew that was hate. I didn't care.
I kept being a player's guy, and being a players guy has going to help me. I don't get into the get the gauty without being a players guy.
Yeah quick, but there was both got we both got to cover mister render.
It was very very interesting.
I still somewhere have a letter which I should pull out where Nick was fined twenty five like fitting on fifty thousand dollars for missing coming, missing a shoot around and being suspended for a game in Houston. He probably was out partying too much the night before. Respect Nick, it's just what happened back then. And he got the letter and handed it to our columnist Mark Kislin. They put the whole letter in the paper. Like, so I got the letter signed by Dad, I got to I
still got it to put it on ebase. Yeah, so I got a Dan Issel signed find letter to date's vad Exel. But no, that was there were certainly some characters, and if you could cover Nick man Exell, you could cover anybody man. He was an amazing player. But no, the one other incident I have and I won't mention this guy's.
Name either, but such a gentleman.
Yeah, like Chris, you didn't have to deal with this.
But right when the Internet was really starting to boom, like we still had to send you had to plug in to your computer to send your stories, like we weren't emailing, they weren't.
Wireless, yet they had wireless chords.
So this one guy from that other paper, he would come early and purposely just plug his computer in to the core to not share it. They were like, basically, we had to share a hardline. What do they call those lines? We still have them? Yes, yeah, to get online, right, we had to share it. But he wouldn't share. He would take it the whole damn game. And he would
do this over and over and over again. So I would always have to like on deadline, going to back and send my story in because he acted like he owned the line. So one time I damn near missed the deadline in Houston because he he was like I'm about to say, I'm about to saying I'm about to send, and he didn't sin, and I waited like two or three minutes waiting for him, and I was basically like, man, this is some bs. You got to stop doing this. Man, this ain't cool. And I went in the back and sent.
So then we went to Seattle. I've never told this too. I don't a lot.
You hal there, go ahead.
So and if he's hearing it now, you'll know why I did We go to Seattle, and I remember this is when I was still a fan of the Traders before they move. And it was the same day as the Tuck Rule game, because I'm watching the Tuck Rule on the TV as the Seattle Nuggets game is going on, and Earl Boykins had this amazing game where he scored fifteen points in overtime.
It might be a NBA record.
Still, I don't know to win the game, and so the deadlines passed. This dude won't give up the line again. I'm in sense, bro, I'm in sense I can't like I'm getting yelled at by the desk, and this guy won't let me send my story in because he's like I'm about to say, I'm about to send I'm about to like he owns this line. Yeah yeah, So I just I lose it. I going back. I send my story. We go to the locker room and I cursed him out. I like lost to Chris, very out of character for me better.
I cursed the.
Job and just basically I don't even want to repeat everything I said, but everything I was holding in it came out. That was like the second time, like you're affecting my job. You're affecting my ability to do my job. You're being selfish. And I let him know, and all I remember is about stor remember this that this just like Clipper Daryl. The Sonics had like a Clipper Daryl
caught of dude. He was like six ' two, probably like three p fifty guys, and he was always like just joking and making jokes.
And so this is apology to the dude. Right.
He comes up, He's like, hey, guys, what you what is and sold this argument blah blah blah.
And I'm like, shut up, Shrek, this is none of your business. Did you hear that story?
I told the fan that, man, I'm like, shut.
Up, ain't none of your damn business.
Thank god there was no Twitter to end up on Twitter.
Yeah, so he ended up like and he like walked away and everything, and then Jeff Buzzdelic walked out and it was just like, dude, all right, I got it out of my system, went up by day, never had an issue ever again.
Right, he never had a problem again.
Well, so the next day I get home, I get called into the office.
By my editor, Greg Moore. I never told this story. I don't care what they gonna do now. It was difficult to bed rock. He gonna be mad. So Greg Boy breaks me.
Into his office and he's like, yeah, you know this guy he said that you you know, you screamed and cursed.
Him out in for the locker room and blah blah blah. I did.
It's like, well, you can't do that, and you know you could face the suspension and blah blah blah.
And I'm like, y'all.
Want me to turn my stories in on time, right. You're always on us about turning their story in on time and making deadline right. I'm like, this guy is keeping me from doing it. It's happened like five times, so you want to just keep starting putting stuff in late because of this guy. That's why I'm blowing up. I'm mad again. Right, And he goes and he told me something very very powerful. He goes, all right, it ain't not going to happen to you, but from now
on you can't speak to him. Just do your job and you can't speak to him. And so we covered the job next to each other for like three more years.
I never spoke to him. Damn, still haven't spoke to him to this day.
Damn.
But he was doing other things like.
Asking players, Chris, you would have been just think about all this, Chris, because this is why I built up.
He was asking players what questions.
I was, I swear I'll.
Be what do he ask you about?
He would we would go to Tim gaelp the PR guy or ship Ic Sebashi and ask.
Him who I was going to interview.
And then even though he didn't need to talk to those people, he would put them on his list too. So he was doing a lot of like shady stuff and that like just not so all that accumulated and I lost it.
But I know to this day I just saw the guy to it the finals. I didn't speak to him. I don't speak to them, and.
And Stein knows who it is newspapers and and but it just showed me, like the power you have and turning somebody off mm hm, the point if they don't exist to you, then they can't bother you.
Why did I tell that story? Chris?
And Joy enjoyed it just as much as I did.
No, I did. I mean I did not know it to that extent. That was not what I expected at all.
I enjoyed because you know, he had to like he had to cut me off from cussing people out a few times in the locker room. Man, you know, I'm still great. I'm evolving.
I'm evolving, like I think people understanding the gaming ship of.
You know, even even like there there's there's parts of our industry where like after a game. You know, Chris is great at getting one on ones. Stein used to mess with me. He's like, oh, you know, Dirk. You know, I remember one time I came to Dallas and I wanted Dirk and Dirk said to start or justn you're jealous if I do it one on one with.
You know, he liked the job me. He liked to make fun of me because Dirk was the guy who would give everybody one on ones and so he'd be at his locker and he'd be He'd love to like look over and go, we're leaving. We're leaving now.
But but no, there's like there certainly is a gaming ship to get one on one interviews, getting the walk off.
Chris is great.
Know you two are you? If they ever have a Sidle Hall of Fame, the two of you will be in it.
Marcus Thompson, Greg So, Chris and I like last year, we both needed k D Kevin Durant, but like we're like, all right, which one of us want to go first?
You know what I mean?
It was like like we was like we had this like yeah, okay, how much time you need?
How much? Yeah, showed up. We showed up at the Kings game.
You know, well, we only go show up at the Keys game if like there's a big team, a big star at town.
They didn't get the Kings respect, no, no, no, But this.
Is before we didn't know the Kings were like the Kings at that point.
You know, I didn't know I was predicted. I wasn't sold yet. So Brooklyn is in town and so be e speised each other pre game. I'm like, ship, so.
You know what I want? How are we going to work this out?
And so we ended up talking about it. We said let's go.
Let's how that KD pregame and so we told KD spears like you know, we both need you, and KD was like, yeah, I got y'all.
Afterwards, I got y'all, I got ya.
And then I was like, Chris, I got to drive back to Bay, so I'll let me go first so I could go home and he's like, all right.
And not just that, not just that.
Remember I took you know, Spears said, there's a gaming ship and there's a respect of it. Like that bullshit that that reporter pull like asking the players, what did he ask you? Like, I get that that that's been done to me before, and that's that's some weak ship. So when Spears had KD, he had him a long time. He had him a long time. But what I did was I didn't stand by listening. Yeah, I gave him you know what I mean?
Like I didn't because there is still there is still a code that still exists, and the code works like this. If I walk up and see you speaking to a player one on one that's off limits, you stay away. You do not uncroach on somebody's one on one. If there are two reporters there, now it's open to everybody, and we're giving.
Them a master y'all getting a master's class right now. I'll beat right.
But that's why covering the glory.
And there has to There has been times where I say, hey, man, let me finish first.
Somebody will walk up, let me finish.
Yeah, you have to end and to be a veteran, A veteran, I should know better.
Yeah, well, because some guys know the rule but just pretend that they're going to ignore it because they're nervous to see player X talking to you for whatever reason. But that the Glory Days Warriors, and I got to throw a mick on the list too. So it's like the Glory We're all trying to sidle these guys after every game. Can I get thirty seconds with Steph? Can I get a minute with Klay? Can I get Draymond? And so it's you two, Thompson and amic all going
for the sidles, and then me too. There was it was a lot.
It was a.
Lot, Yeah, but pressures. That was the pressure. How are we going to at our title?
After the game?
Yeah, he figured out, Yeah, it gets done.
When we see each other, we'd.
Be like like, damn god, he come to me.
That's I'm out. I'm out of that. I'm too I'm too old for that nonsense. I can only last season though.
He did get Anthony Davis, and then Anthony Davis took off running. I was waiting on Anthony Davis too.
Who Haines did.
Yeah, he got him, and you know you don't know that.
Where was that a crypto?
No, that's Sack.
It's Sack too, But so Sack.
Is the haven for titles.
Well, look, this is a part of the game.
It's like like when I said Spirits had Katie for a long time. This is after the game, like he had it for a long time. But I'm gonna respect my boy's time. You know, just had a protocol period. I don't know. Listen, you talked him longer than I did.
No, I don't. I don't think so.
But no.
The reason I say that is because they're on the road, and then Katie could be like, no, I just gave spears fifteen minutes like Chris, do it tomorrow, Chris, Oh no, it was it fell along.
Waiting. Yeah, I was waiting exactly.
Felt I actually left some questions on the table because I think you were awaiting.
No, no, I appreciate that.
But at the same time, like again, I'm not standing near trying to listen to every question. Like, so I go in so when I get them, I go in thinking maybe I'm going to ask the same question. I'm not going to ask KD what the spears.
And were very different if they go.
Back Yeah, it was different, and I got them on something else. But that's that's the protocol. So you know this is a message not just to aspiring journalists, but even veteran journalists.
Man, you see.
Somebody get a one on one, one on one, back up, back on? Yeah, because I'm gonna say something spears more or the more policy. He's hall of fame. I ain't the hall of fame. Yet he can't. He can't get away with some things I can get away with. I'm gonna say something.
Like back on.
But I think George Carl will stop confusing us.
Now.
You know that's another that's another story that Mark Spears is six ' six. I'm five nine on a good day, and yet coach Carl loves to call you Mark Stein and call me Mark Spears.
And had a guy had a Sacramento game in the playoffs. He was yelling at me Stein and I didn't turn her around. I just kept walking and he ran up to me Mark Stein. I'm like, where is he?
He's like, what do you mean?
It's like, I ain't Mark Stein, I'm George Man. I got to tell a quick George story. So all the years at ESPN, I did the Power Rankings for fifteen years, and God bless you there there are certain coaches who really liked those Power rankings more than they wanted to admit. There are certain coaches who really really read them and really got wound up about where I would have them
on a Monday. And I believe that George Carl was one of those readers who did like it and in the rankings because I was always trying to be I was always trying to get, you know, be you know, I had that that Vessey influence where I wanted to come up so bad with nicknames because VESSI was the
king of you know, giving guys nicknames. So I started calling him furious George, and I heard through the grapevine that he hated it, and he got pissed at me, and he hated that I would call him furious George and the rankings. So what happens years later when he decides to write his own book, what does he call it?
Furious George?
That's George Carl one time.
So George was mad. George was coach of the Nuggets.
He was mad at Mark Mark Kisler, a calumnists endeaver, for something he wrote. And so he kept like acting funny towards me, and I finally like lost the widow. I'm like, George, is my name, Mark Spears and Mark Kisler? Which one is If you got a problem with Kisling, then you take that up with Kisling. But if you got a problem with me, take it up with me. I ain't got a problem with you. And then why are you act the funny towards me? Or be passive aggressive?
Say something to him if you got a problem, you know.
Good by association.
But yeah, but Georgia, George was interesting. He certainly could you know, you need to do your pregame notebook? Turn your notebook in. Nobody was better at filling a notebook than him and Doc rivers Man. They could fill up a notebook for you. Rey Allen unbelievable with that, you could asked Ray Allen. I just saw Ray shout out to Rey Allen Man, just one of the greatest professionals I ever covered. You could be like Ray today in Turkey there was an incident in which, oh, yeah, you know.
You do it, Ray doing everything.
You could explained the Pythagoraea theorem to you, right, Realen is like the sharpest knife you will meet.
If going to ask you this, I know the time's getting close close to an end, but I wouldn't ask you this if if you can name of a player like you know, obviously they associate me with Dame and you know, I give him a lot of.
Praise and recognition for you know, my.
Career trajectory, you know, because it definitely happened when when Dane came aboard. Is there a player if like you know, how like is it major League Baseball where they go into the Hall of Fame they retired with a team. Yeah, yeah, So if there was a player, yeah, that you would say you were most associated with throughout your career, who would that one player be?
I would probably start with Mellow Carmel, That's what That's what I was going to say.
Yeah, I figured answer your own question.
Yeah, I saw him and I talked to him since he retired, so it was really I mean we only had like ninety minute conversation, but he you know, I told him thank you because because of him, people were paying attention to my work.
The Nuggets weren't really that great.
They never could get out the first round, but they were always in the playoffs. You know, I started covering the team in ninety nine. He showed up in two thousand and three. They didn't go to the playoffs the first four years I was covering. So you know, if the tree falls in the forest, is anyone paying attention.
They paid attention when Mellow came. And I remember when I got the job in Boston covering the Big three of the Septics, which I don't know people people in Boston associate with me with them, you know, because they won. And when Garnett says anything is right there, I'm right there.
I'm always in that moment. But I would definitely say ivers Sin and maybe to a lesser extent Steph just because I was around, not that I covered the Warriors full time, but being in the Bay Area and basically being there from his extension to bad Ankles to Superstar. Maybe I don't know. Stein Stein could probably better ask to that, would you say?
I would have said Mellow first if someone asked me my thought, I would have said Mellow first. But look, I mean, you know.
Dirt, Yeah, of course he's dirt, of course.
But I always say, if like, you can only tell good stories if you're trusted to have access. You know, like I've been telling Dirk stories for a week because obviously with Dirt getting inducted, I've done ninety five interviews about it, and he didn't. These guys don't have to let us tag along. And there's a lot of times we see stuff in their bad moments, and you know that's you have to be grateful for that, because it's like you can only tell good stories if you see stuff.
And speaking of telling stories of the Mark Spears, I had the pleasure at this was at the NABJ convention here in Birmingham, Alabama, last week or two weeks ago. He's telling stories in a different matter now. So I'm proud of it. I'm proud of my brother for venturing out and doing something. So he's a part of a project that's called It's going to drop on Hulu August twenty eighth. The series is the Conversations Project, that's the
name of it. It's gonna be on Hulu drops August twenty eighth, And he showed I don't know if this was the first episode.
This the first episode we got to see was a screening.
Yeah, and that BJ. Yeah, I'm glad you saw it.
First episode, I was there and I was blown away. I was blown away by the concept I was. I told you, I was blown away by the concept of the conversation.
And basically, I'm gonna let your spears.
I wanna let you tell tell how this came to be and give a little bit more take ustle bit more inside of how this project came to be and what it's about. But I fell in love with it. I can't wait when it comes out. And I'm being like, guys, I'm being real, genuine and when I say how much I love this first episode that I got to see a couple of weeks ago, but stop, I mean spirits.
Tell us a little bit about this.
It's called a Conversations project.
And about a year and a half ago, there's a friend of mine, uh named Chef David Lawrence who used to have this restaurant called thirteen hundred on Philmore kobe Ate there lebron Ate there. It's like the greatest soul food restaurant I've ever been to you the love it, Chris. But it had like swag and atmosphere to it, and it was like maybe a little boozie for you. You know, they didn't have hot sauce all over the place, but.
I don't do hot sauce.
Sp ahead. Yeah.
But anyways, me and him like developed this TV show where we basically initially actually Terrence Mann. I'll give you a little secret. Terence Man was in the pilot where we basically took him to a vineyard. We interviewed him in the vineyard in a tation room at Charles Krook Winery, and then the chef brought him into the kitchen and curated a meal based on his Caribbean background. And then we brought the meal to a roundtable that for a
dinner discussion and included on Terrence's good friends. Brought Brian Shaw, the Clippers assistant, his wife, chef Nikki and also a comedian activist w camal Bell and Brene Royale, a black woman in the wine industry.
So then we had the wine. And so we did the.
Show, and we sent the pilot in and and scaped and Hulu said, we just loved the dinner.
We want to do it with the dinner.
What I'm gonna say, no, So what they ended up doing is along with me and chef, they ended added Elaine welter Roth Project Runway at former editor of Team Vogue, and basically made it a dinner show that we filmed in New York, Long Island City where it's us three hosts and like five black people of note of varying success and different genres, just having dinner talking. And so
every episode we highlight a different black owned winery. And then we also chef curates this beautiful meal where he brings out a dish and every dish is like a different topic. So we have an appetizer, we have a main course.
And we have a dessert, and Chris the fool is good too.
Yeah, it was really you could tell, yeah, but the conversation gets deep. It's a completely black, you know, group, doesn't mean people that aren't black can't watch it. I think everybody will enjoy it because you're basically taking you behind the curtain in the black community and how we really feel about good, bad, and and different about what's going on in our world. And some of the things
are really hard to talk about. Some of the things are painful, but some of the things are funny and hilarious. And Chris got to see episode two and it was the first time I got to see it.
With a crowd of people we watched at.
The recent NABJ convention, and I was so happy, man, because it's like, you're bringing this baby into the world and you don't know how people are gonna take it, and still don't really until it comes out. All six episodes on August twenty eighth on Hulu and internationally on Disney Plus.
But Chris seemed to love it. Everybody seemed to love it.
And I think it's a different show because it just basically bringing a bunch of successful people in room and having a very intelligent conversation.
And I think people need to see black people in this light. Man.
A lot of times we are put in a less favorable light, in a ghetto light, in a.
In a light that makes people like.
Threatened by us, or you know, or throwing drinks at each other, talking crazy. You know, this is like the conversations we typically have at dinner, right, Chris, And so I'm really really.
Proud of it. I don't know.
I hope everybody checks it out and gives it a chance, and hope is very successful. But to be a writer, a sports writer, NBA writer and put out a TV show that ain't got nothing to do with sports is certainly a great accomplishment for me.
Kurt Goudi winner and an executive producer credit, all in the same year you had twenty You will not will not forget twenty twenty three.
He's not done. He's not done.
On September thirtieth, his alma mater, San Jose State is honoring him with the William Randolph Hurst Foundation Award.
What explain what that award is.
It's a journalism excellence award. Man, So I'm proud that my alma mater is gonna come. I know you're a Fresno State guy, but I want you and your wife to come down and come to that. And doctor Fauci has wonted some extreme journalists of wanting so yeah, Sten, come through.
Man. We're all cal State University.
Got that's right, that's right now. This is we did it. We kept First of all, we kept you way too long, but we did it. Fullerton, Fresno and San Jose got along here for seventy five minutes. I apologize everyone. I did have it on the list for us to talk
about James Harden and talk about Damian Lillard. But you know what, I think it was more important to tell journalism because it's more important before because we do we love our business, we love what we do, and we do want we do want people to keep wanting to do this. So I hope in all these stories that we told today there's some there's some good information.
Like that.
The NBA Central we have no control over what the agree they Yeah, who is the guy?
Is this?
Who is covering the team for the Rocky Mount News.
Because I gave to day everything.
Everything, figure it out.
I thought you're gonna say you pulled you actually pulled this hard line out and pull it in yours so you can tell your story, do that, but I lost it.
That's luckily there's no video today. There would have been video. Luckily today there's what that was. There was that was all right everyone, Mark Spears.
Hey, I love you both. You're my brothers for life. Thank you for everything you're doing. Thank you for your friendship. Thank you for you caring to.
Talk to me man, and we care.
We do care.
Sty brothers for life.
Baby, all good brother.
There he goes everyone ESPN and scapes Mark Spears joining Haynesenstein here on this league uncut. We will be back soon and I promise next time we bring.
Yeah and that'll do it for us.
See you next time.
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