Welcome to This League Uncut in the world of twenty four hour NBA news. Is you lo.
Chris Hans.
It's so time, Port Stein, It's so time.
This League Uncut is underway and on fire. It should be a good one.
Everyone welcome, Thanks so much for joining us. This is a historic moment for this show. We're almost six months old, This League Uncut, the This League Uncut podcast. I'm Mark Stein. To my far right is my trusty podcast partner Chris Haynes, who everyone knows from Turner Sports and Bleach your report. And we are truly honored, not just to be at the iconic Caesars Palace here at Summer League in Vegas, but to have a truly special guest with us.
You guys know him.
Doesn't need an introduction. Lakers coach Darvin Ham. Everyone with us here on this League Uncut Coach.
Thank you man, thanks for having me, Thank you for joining us.
Even for the brothers.
I wish I want to take the headphones off and see what Pat Bell was talking about.
That's what God.
Oh yeah, he'll TV right.
Now and that will not be his last interview, so don't worry.
I'm sure.
I'm sure he'll be I'm sure he'll be getting getting info from him soon. When you're at Summer League, what what is I mean, you're an observer, You're not on the floor. What are you looking for when you're when you're watching the Lakers player, when you're in the gym for other games? What are you on the lookout for?
I'm just trying to survey the level of competitiveness individual individual, group by group again, the level of competitiveness and the i Q, you know, in terms of guys that play the right way, you know, not necessarily trying to make every play for themselves, but trying to put their their team in a position to be successful possession by possession. So that's the biggest thing. And how guys are bought in. And I mean it's obviously as Summer League, it's it's
a short term situation for some guys. But in that short term, how quickly can they come together and try to do something special and you know, win a summ League championship?
But how much different does the game look from a fan sea Because I'm guessing.
And I haven't been a fan of so long. It's like, it's hard, it's hard, it's it's actually more difficult to watch as a coach because you're you have that every like critiquing different things as you're watching real live action. It's tough. Like it's it's hard for me to sit at home and watch basketball. I love watching it, but I know, I'm so happy we have what you call it. Uh, you can pauls and winding yea, I always say TVO,
but you can pause and rewind it. And I'm like breaking the game down like I'm breaking down one of my films. So it's it's it's tough, but you know, being around the game, I'm you know, I'm from Michigan originally the rich history of basketball within that state, being from the city of Saginaw, and all the great players I saw coming up from Sagging, all the flot Detroit, Grand Rapids, Calumbas play guys all over that state. To now being on my own journey from a player to
now a coach, It's like you it's not hard. I see things immediately, and you can tell when the guys out there not doing the right thing, not playing the right way, and you know, usually they you know, they may get some numbers, but they don't really get very far.
You've assigned coach JD to see the head coach of Summer League to talk about opportunities that presents when a guy is able to leaders own team, even if for for a short stint during some of league.
What are you looking for as well?
I mean, I'm looking for the leadership capabilities, how how well they're keeping everything organized. I try to stay out of the way to just let him go figure it out, you know, throw them on the deep end of the pool, so to speak, you know, and you know, not be overbearing. And I think JD has done a tremendous job him skylar zp the guys why put in charge of running the Summer League team and shout out to my man Nick Mosella, who really were quarterback putting our sumer League
roster together. It's it's been beautiful to watch. And you know, one of our young kids, we're really really excited about Max Christie, you know, going into his second year in the league. I told him he needs to step up and show his leadership abilities, and he's done that, along with you know, Jalen Hood Chapino and Maxwell Lewis and
Colin Castleton, d'amoye Hodge, like we got Cole Spider. We have some really good players under our umbrella that you know, the people are getting a chance to see and and they're playing the right way. They're competing again, competing at a high level, and coaches at the at the forefront
of that. And it's just not you know, opportunity as you mentioned for players, it's just coaches, our training staff, our performance team, like it's our h opportunity for those guys who are normally in a support role step to the forefront and show their abilities to the run a situation and keep it running smooth and keep it well oiled and well organized. So I'm excited. I mean, I think our program is just it's been incredible.
So you guys, your first season, it started off so rough, but then you guys oooh changed everything up, surged into the playoffs. You won your first two playoff series as an NBA head coach. You KOed the defending champs, but obviously the Western Conference finals did not go the way you wanted against Denver. Now that you've had some distance from it, when I just listed like that, what's your gut reaction to year one on the sidelines for Darvinham.
I mean, like I said, man, it's not stressful. What excuse me, seemed to be a stressful situation. I knew exactly what I was getting myself into. The Lakers are the organization that gave me my first shot as the NBA assistant coach. Excuse me once again, and I just knew it'd be. You know, I call it the excavation period, you know, where we try to get things stable level, you know, dig up the old bones, get them out the way, and try to reset the franchise to get
back to re establishing to win the culture. And I felt like we were able to do that. We put together a strong coaching staff, you know, Chris, Jim, Phil Hand, the Jordan and skyl Or jd. We just added to Mary Carroll, Zach Peters and all our guys, like we knew that every day we come out, you know, our marching orders that I delivered as being the head coach, we gotta make sure we go get better at something each and every day. And I didn't look at him
as wins and losses. I called them wisdom and lessons. And so we we didn't want to answer we're gonna go as far as our work takes us. And that's exactly what happened. I mean, obviously we had some parts albeit that were good parts, but they just didn't fit. And so once we were able to get some pieces that hit naturally to our two captains, Brian and a d I thought, you saw, you know, you got to you got to see what the laker what it looks like.
And you know, being able to get through the first round it's a really tough, well coach Memphis team and in the second round it gets the defending champs. You know, it's it was beautiful. And then to see of what winning is gonna look like in the league. In terms of playing against Denver, the won two parts, not three four max players and just a collection of individuals, a solid, well coach team with the monster of.
A player in.
Nicolet Jokic, the Joker is nothing short of amazing. The Jamal Murray, the reemergence of Jamal Man and just just a really good program, well balanced team that's you know, very very young, and someone that you're gonna have to go through. In terms of achieving that goal of winning the championship, it runs directly through Denver.
I remember being there early in the season, during the two and ten start. Yeah, and being in that press conference room and you talked about how blessed you felt to be the Laker coach and it was not it did. I'm not gonna lie to you. There were a lot of people in that room, maybe even me included. It didn't look like a blissful, I'm blessed situation.
At that this point.
I mean, you guys were in a serious hole. How much pressure did you feel at that time?
Too?
I have to try to somebody has to bring some calmness here, and it's gonna be me.
Yeah, I mean, I just think you show up to work and you be consistent. One thing I've always prided myself on is being a consistent human being, Like, no matter what circumstances changed in my life, if I'm up, if I'm down, rich, poor, whatever, it don't matter. Like every human deserves to be treated with respect. And I want people to know if they engage with Darviingham, they know, Darvingham, you gonna get the same thing every time, and never
get too high and never get too low. Because again, in my opinion, what I've seen throughout my years of playing at this level, or any level for that matter. Being around some of the great coaches I've been around, the team is a direct reflection of the coach, and I just felt like if I stayed consistent in my approach, that toughness was was gonna bleed over into my team.
And I think that's exactly what happened. If you go back and look at some of those press conference conferences, I told them, I said, we have to go through this time, like this is the reconstruction period, Like we have to go through this. I understood that, you know, being with Bud for nine years and what we had to do in Atlanta and what we were able to do, you know, transitioning from Atlanta to Milwaukee, and you know, like it's nothing's gonna happen overnight if you just have
to stick with it and be consistent every day. And it starts with me being a leader and everyone that's around me just having that mindset to where you know, we got better at something. That's a such thing as a bad win and a good loss, Like sometimes you win bad and you've had bad habits, but just because you have so much talent.
You would have taken a bad win.
Though during I'd have taken a few bad wins, but uh, we had some good losses. Like where I saw the biggest thing. It's funny because you know, being with Bud coming from La joining him in Atlanta in twenty thirteen, the Lakers were always my scout and as the scout coach, I always had to pay attention to what was going
on over there for strategic reasons. And also that's that's what gave me my start, you know, being with Kobe for two years twenty eleven in twenty thirteen and everything that's going on is it's a little special place in my heart for that place. And so just what I saw from them the previous season going into it, even before I got the job, it is just like I just saw lack of competitiveness that I knew that once
I get the job. That's the first thing we got to established that when you play the Los Angeles Lakers, you in for a dog fighting like no matter who wins or loses, you gonna feel us like you're gonna we gonna make you feel us, and you're gonna know that you you were in the like a knockdown drag out if need be. I wanted to re establish that first and to be together. And I said, it's competitiveness, togetherness and accountability starting with myself. How can I be better?
How can we be better? So I think we were able to do that in the first year.
Up once again, we're here with Los Angeles Lakers head coach Darvin Ham here at Caesars Palace, live here in Las Vegas. I think it's well documented obviously the decision you had to make early in the season to bring Russell Westbrook off the bench. But coach, there are Hall of fame coaches who coach for twenty years who never have to make.
A decision like that.
What prepared you to have a talk like that, to have a not just a suggestion, but hey, this is what this is what needs to happen, Like, what prepared you to take go on something like that.
I just think things I've been through in life, like growing up and sagging on the eighties. Man, we got to sell anybody about that time, you know, just everything, Yeah, things people have engaged and and the biggest thing for me, man, is just I just feel like you only have to tell the truth once and you're not You don't Some people choose to disguise it with humor and being a damn comedian, and some people want to disguise it through being abrasive and and and and being like just assertive
and what could be perceived a mean spirited way. I just shoot between the eyes, man and just look.
Look.
And I told Russ, I said, and shout out to Russ Man, like so us made. He takes a lot of blame. And you know, everybody you know seems to want to talk stuff about it. I won't curse, but but.
Yeah, it's just some of the stuff he has to endure.
And he's still a very, very highly capable basketball player. I appreciate him for just giving it a chance and complying with what I wanted to do and just to take a take, take a bullet for the team. And like I told him, it's not a demotion, bro, Like, Okay, we got you a D and Brown in the starting lineup. All of you guys need the ball, like and most times you give it up, you're going to just go
stand somewhere, like why not realign? Why not allow me to help you help us by realigning the rotation to where now you're coming off and you get to dominate, dictate to do everything and people forget man like when he came in from that reserve role and we would put runners and shooters and rim rollers and finishers around them, it's time to there are ten MVP for us. He saved our ass a bunch of nights when we started off flat and he came in and he pushed the tempo.
He brought that energy and you look up now we've gone on a twelve to two or ten oh run as soon as he stepped into the lineup off the bench. So shout out to him. I'll always be thankful and respectful for him again just meeting me halfway and really trying to buy into what we were trying to do. But it's I mean, I think you just sit down
and it was it was a summer long deal. Me seeing him out here in vegue is me, you know, pulling them to the side, having one on one conversations throughout text messages.
Phone calls. Yeah.
Yeah, but just really because I have a ton of respect for us, like I've always had since he's been in the league. So I just I respect what he's done, but who he is, great, great human being, and I'm just happy again that he it's a collaboration these days, man, it's no longer a dictatorship.
Of his my way of the high win.
And you have to collaborate with your players if you hope to have any type of success. And that was a huge collaborative effort on his behalf in mind and us trying to.
Make something work.
How much do you think that that plays to your advantage? You're obviously not afraid to talk to guys.
You, I mean you.
You clearly relish that. So how much does that change in the game work in your favor?
You know?
I just think you know, I came in as an undrafted player, and again I come from a real place, a real background, really and always try to be the
best teammate I could possibly be. It's funny I still talk to my teammates from every situation I've ever been in, you know, always all the way back to Lafondo, Ellis in my rookie year in Denver, Man Chris Webber, Juwan, Rod Strickland, all my guys, God Sham God, Ben Wallace, She like Sam Plesel like Jason Terry, everywhere I've been, you know, I made these relationships with these guys and the camaraderie that's involved, because that's the thing you missed
when guys go on, they retire and they get away from the game. Obviously, the money is what it is, and the traveling and all that, but what they miss is that brotherhood you have with your teammates and being able to understand that from a player's perspective, and now transitioning into being a coach, I think it makes it. It's not like a chore or a daunting task for me to have a conversation with someone, whether.
It's I'm sure you heard the skeptics coming in the natural question. They're going to ask, not necessarily about you specifically, but they're going to say, how is a rookie coach going to coach Lebron James.
Well, I'm rookie in the sense of having never been a head coach, but I'm not a first time at all. I've been around this league for a quarter of a century and so knowing Brown like I do, I think the common denominator between he and I is the hunger to win and to win at a high level and just sit and talk. And those are my nad and my team captains, and I think communication is key and a collaborative mindset of not your way or what works
best for you specifically individually, we're gonna fail. If it's something that's not the whole group can embrace and thrive on, then maybe it's not a good idea. And I'm not afraid to say that or challenge my guys man in certain ways. So and again not being laughing, joky or being dark and aggressive and abrasive, like just just calling a cat and cat being real and just having a type of temperament where they know I'm serious and we're
gonna push forward and try to make it work. But it's just not gonna be something we pull out of the sky. It's gonna be a well thought out, well informed decision or course of action. So that's the biggest thing for me, and just them understanding the clarity about it and getting their feedback and then landing in a place where we all feel good about, you know, the course of action we're gonna take.
I covered Lebron when he was in Cleveland when David Black had took over, and it didn't go too well.
Darn the players just didn't.
That.
The respect wasn't there. Yeah, the voice wasn't there. The accountability wasn't there. And so with that sense, we're saying that I know players on that team, they were like, you know, he wouldn't call out certain guys.
So I want to ask you.
Do you remember the first time you called out Lebron in front of the team. I call out that call out, that call out knowledge.
Him when you have to. When you have film, you fight with film.
Yes, that's any coach that's worked this way and go will tell you the film never lies. Is you have to fight with film. It's not calling anybody out. Are you willing to acknowledge a mistake made by the biggest asset in the.
Room like.
Respect that there's times when you stop the film, like Bron, I need you to be the meg, what we call our meg, our baseline up, our most important guy. And to his credit, is one of the reasons why we were able to have a success and that you know, transformed and what we were able to do going from h to six or to two and ten to getting to the final four in the conference finals. Like was his ability to allow himself to be coached like he like everybody, you know, he's this he he's the biggest
personality global superstar we have today. But he's also a guy that's been praised and both criticized for always making the right play and playing and not being selfish enough at times. And the one thing I know about Lebron James is is IQ he just wants the right plays to be made. It doesn't have to be him shooting
the ball going for a game winner. The biggest, one of the biggest shots that were made in our program this year was him kicking the ball out of Dennis Shroud and the play and game against Minnesota, Dennis knocking down the corner three. So when we talk about the game and we break stuff down, and even I encourage them when we're going through walkthroughs, you're going through film,
I encourage the feedback. I know the coaches constantly. I've been in the room where in uniform as a player, watching the coaches give us all the answers and what he thinks and not really open enough the floor for guys to say what they need to say and get that feedback and from their petive.
So that's the one thing.
I wanted to try to create and my first opportunity being in the seat is to let these guys know that all feedback is welcome. But it can't be it can't be a personal agenda behind that. It's gotta be from a perspectable what's gonna help the entirety of the group, not just what's comfortable for me and what's gonna help me individually, Like he understands that about me and my staff. The way it's constructed, we hold each other accountable and ad the same, and guys will speak up in the films.
That's only he allows himself to be coached. It's not like this big thing where oh, and you have some guys that are go into it like that.
Or just.
Manipulate or try to create a scenario to where they can say I stood up the broad It wasn't even about that, Bro, Like, let's deal with the facts. Does the film say, Okay, if Bron was out of place and there's one play, we're gonna talk about it, not just for Bron, for the.
Whole room and group to see that.
If you're in this position, whether it's Bron or if it's Dennis, or if it's whoever one of the new guys that's coming in Jackson Hayes, Cam Reddish everybody's gonna get that same speech, because this is the way we have to play. This is the way we have to execute on either side of the ball. It's not just
because it's Lebron. It's like these dudes like they manufacture these moments to just make themselves feel good, like they stood up to something, whereas me, I just want us moving thinking the right way so we can ultimately accomplish our goal of being NBA champions once again.
You've got to taste that. As a player, how often do you do you allow yourself to imagine what that would feel like to win one? As a coach, how do you approach you? Do you dream about it or do you not think about it? Or what's your approach on that?
Bro? You constantly, I mean you're constantly chasing that feeling. I mean to be able to do it in O four in Detroit and then do it as an assistant coach in Milwaukee what they had gone on a fifty year drought and we were able to do that in twenty twenty one to go get number eighteen in the Purple and gold. Like I'm working my ass off, I'm trying to give us each and every opportunity to be able to put that.
It's nothing more than I would want is.
To win a championship trophy with gd Bus and Rob Blinka have been nothing short of amazing to me. They've given me this platform, they've supported me stay solid through the hard times early on, and then just some of the text messages, some of the conversations, some of the phone calls when the three of us get into the room and the support they've given me, man, it just empowers me. And so it's nothing more that I will
want than being able to hoist that trophy up. And with those two individuals and our team and an organization as a whole, everyone has treated me with nothing but open arms.
So since you bring that up, I don't know if my count is exactly right, but I mean, you proved last year you should have gotten a head coaching job a long time ago. But I mean I counted it up once and if my count is right, Celtics, Hornets, Bulls, Pacers, Wolves, Magic, Kings, Wizards and Clippers and Hawks and Hawks too. So ten teams interviewed you, yep, and did not hire you as their head coach.
Yeah, they fucked up rawly. Then you go back and look at those teams, I mean, coaches changed as we've had amongst those.
How did you not let that embitter you?
How did you?
I mean, I'm sure that was not fun to go through that ten times.
Nah.
I mean it's just one of those things. And Lakers were a tenth. I mean, just it's not getting a job. It's the right job with the right fit, with the right individuals. You could think you're ready for something, but only God knows is like to put you in the right place where you need to be.
And that was what happened with the Lakers, and.
God blessed those other franchises. But I just know, yes, you never want to get down because you those things take They take time.
Man.
It's like, Okay, the process goes a team of call and national permission to interview, right, your interview might not be for another two to three weeks and so oh
and a bunch of those situations. I'm in a situation that Milwaukee we're fighting for a championship and I'm the lead assist, so my mind I have to be locked in on what we're doing to support but but also trying to prep for this new situation to get familiar with what their their circumstances are, and so it was tough not you know a few of those situations not being able to land them. But I'm okay, I'm I don't get the job, but I'm going back to a
championship franchise. So my my landing, my landing were all. I had a big ass parachute, so people talk about having a golden parachute. That was my situation in Milwaukee and sou But again, it's not about getting a job but the right job. And I felt like we fell into the right situation with the Los Angeles Lakers, and then it was like a homecoming for me.
You know, they gave me my start as a coach.
I've seen you now like three times here and you've had a different Dodger hat on every time.
If you were so.
But if if you go home, I mean, they're gonna be cool with a Dodger hat if you's.
Daring him, So they're gonna be They don't be satisfied. They ain't gonna say about nothing I'm doing. You've been around me before. We moved through a rood, no problem. I promise The security is there to save the people that's.
Just how it is. Talk that the power of God with you. Man. I ain't worried about nothing.
Do you have the I've noticed because I've experienced it myself. You've gotten petty a couple of times this season. So that's case in point. We were talking about it a little bit before. So you're playing the Golden State Warris and that that was actually the playoff series that everybody wanted to see.
That they wanted to see that serious. That series actually should have been the Western Conference.
Well, and I can't say that because that's respecting the champion, but that was a serious That was the serious everybody wanted to see. So at certain point, Steve Kerr goes out and accuses your team of continuously flopping, flopping, flopping. So for you that don't know, you know, when you see me during the game, I'm I'm talking to the coaches after the first and third quarter.
So I got Coach Ham after the first quarter.
There was a play that Dennis Schroeder had he really got fouled, like he got fouled, but there was no call.
Buzzer ends ends the first quarter.
I saw Coach Ham's reaction, so I'm like, okay, in my head, that's gonna be my first question. I'm not thinking anything of what you're about to say. I'm just wanting to get your reaction to that miscall. So I asked you, hey, coach Ham, I saw your reaction Denis Schroder not getting a call with what did you think about that? And I think you completely dismissed that question. She was like, I don't teach flopping over here. We
don't flop over here. So if anybody's saying anything like that, and it just said like immediately, I was like, oh, this is gonna be a viral.
Woman.
You don't get those type of questions, I mean answers. It gave an interview right there.
So you was that something that just triggered you at the time, Like what triggered you to get that response at that point?
It's just one of those things, man, Like I let me start here. Man, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Suten State Warriors, Steve Cerr, everybody. But when you try to paint a narrative, I think you know, it's like playing chess, playing poker, or whatever you want to call it. Guys trying to give themselves any and every chance and every possible way to come out on top of a situation and be victorious. Right me, I
never blamed officiating. It's even hard. Like we have someone to sign to like who watches the game and watch we may flag certain clips, and all we want is consistency. We don't want, you know, an advantage or the referees to work on our behalf. These guys are the holders of the game, the integrity of the game at that and so we just want to point out different things in order to try to force the situation where they're.
Just more consistent.
And so when you hear certain things, man like I don't rob or tell you, my coaches will tell you. I struggled to try to be caddy and petty and complaining about the officiating and all of this. I mean, it's times I just called like it it. We got screwed a bunch this year, bro, Like early on we needed some it was some big wins that didn't go in our favor for just inconsistent officiating. I don't blame
that on one individual referee. I'm just saying in that moment in time, it was inconsistent officiating.
That's all I'll say. And I'll leave it there.
I don't want to use that as a crutch because at the end of the day, we have also what we call in our program, self inflicted wounds when we don't take care of the business we're supposed to take care of to put us in a position where we can come out victorious. So we address that. But when I'm hearing different sound bites and I'm seeing the game within the game being played in the media and all of that, I don't fuck with it. I don't want
nothing to do with it. I'm sorry, excuse my language, but I'm you know I nothing came easy for me, you know, in terms of crossing the t's dotting the eyes and within my career, whether I was a player, coach you just mentioned, I went through ten interviews. Nothing has ever come easy for me. And I want it that way because now it's like I can't just give you a scripted message.
I have a testimony, you know what I mean.
By the grace of God, I'm sitting here in this position I'm in, working for the franchise I'm working for, and I'll be damned if I let someone try to manipulate the way we approach our game, the competitiveness in which we come with, like we're trying to you know, disguise and try to pull the wall over someone's eyes where now were coming out were playing smash mouth basketball.
That's the way we teach it. That's the way we preach it, and that's the way we're gonna execute it when the lights come on.
So, coach, you don't view that tech as you know a coach, what's the term lame as hell?
Starry? What's the term? With coaches? It's like a it's a tactic coaching.
Steve Currs of Phil Jackson disciple that that's that was a Phil Jackson maneuver.
Okay, but a lot a lot of coaches do it like they plan to see in hopes that the calls will go in their favorite next game.
If they I'm a Larry Brown disciple, you're gonna get out of your work what you put into. It's shout out to coach Brown. Still talk to him all the time, stay on my line. Gave me great words of encouragement throughout this whole process.
I can't get over that ten teams talk to you before the Lakers. That's a third of the.
League, a third of the league. Bro, And I give another shout out Charles Lee. I'm seeing him going through some of the similar things right now. And and and kudos to him, congratulation to him become and lead assistant over with the Boston Celtics, and he's gonna get his time. And again, like he and I just talked about this two days ago, Like it's not just about getting a job, it's getting the right job, because don't get it messed up.
Like the same way they're trying to they would try to vet me and see if I'm capable of doing the job. You have to vet some of these franchises they're leader to a lot of times, their leadership is shaky. They don't have the vertical alignment that they should have. But everything falls on that position of a coach first to get blame lines, to get the credit right. So you have to do your own vetting of some of these organizations that's being poorly ran, that don't give the support,
that's not trying to everybody talks just rebuild stuff. I just na that's but you have to do your part. To any candidate out there that's you know, the next potential head coach, make sure you do your homework on that franchise you stepping into, to make sure that you know that you even want to be a part of that.
So much goodness, so much candor on so many different subjects here with Darvin Ham, that we decided, you know what, We've got to split this thing into two parts. So stay tuned for part two because we're going to get into Darvin's thoughts about Austin Reeves and his new contract, what the future looks like for Austin Reeves with the Lakers, and in addition to many other topics, we will get to Darvin Ham's thoughts on the Lakers rivalry with Denver and Nuggets coach Mike Malone.
And that'll do it for us. See you next time. This League Uncuttage and iHeartRadio Production
Chris Hayne and Mark Stein