This Week In Digital Trust - podcast cover

This Week In Digital Trust

Regular conversations about tech policy, privacy, cyber security, AI safety and everything in between. This Week In Digital Trust is hosted by Arjun Ramachandran and Jordan Wilson-Otto, self-described technology enthusiasts with a passion for ensuring the use of technology leads to the best outcomes for humanity. Arjun and Jordan are Principals at elevenM, a specialist AI, privacy, cyber security and data governance consultancy in Australia. Arjun is a strategic communications expert and former journalist. Jordan is an expert in privacy regulation, policy development and program management.
Last refreshed:
Follow this podcast in the Metacast mobile app to refresh it and see new episodes.
Download Metacast podcast app
Podcasts are better in Metacast mobile app
Don't just listen to podcasts. Learn from them with transcripts, summaries, and chapters for every episode. Skim, search, and bookmark insights. Learn more

Episodes

#45 Setting the record straight

In this special episode of This Week in Digital Trust, we explore familiar themes, but with a twist. On the podcast we often discuss concepts of agency and a sense of identity in the context of privacy, and how our grip on these concepts can be undermined when we lose control over our information. For Australians who have experienced disadvantage, especially children that have grown up in out-of-home care, these challenges are even more pronounced. Many typically don't have any access to their o...

Jan 09, 202327 min

#44 This year in digital trust

This week Arj and Jordan take a look back at the big issues of 2022 and how things have played out since they were discussed in earlier episodes. They cover topics including the crash of crypto, the extent of cyber war in the Ukraine/Russia conflict, the march of facial recognition technology, and Australian Government reforms in the cyber and privacy domains. This is our last episode of 2022. We'll be back in early Jan. Thank you all for listening to the first year of TWIDT! Links: Bitcoin cras...

Dec 20, 202236 min

#43 The privacy blindspot

This week, Arj and Jordan mark Human Rights Day (Dec 10) with an argument for making human rights a more central focus in Australia's public policy and reform discussions about privacy. The discussion offers a useful framing for analysing a recent decision by EU regulators against Meta's use of personalised advertising without explicit consent, a ruling expected to strike at the heart of the tech giant's business models. They also discuss how stronger privacy laws that make the acquisition of "t...

Dec 13, 202231 min

#42 When do gooders do bad

This week, Arj and Jordan dive into the collapse of cryptocurrency exchange FTX. It leads them to a broader discussion about Effective Altruism, a philosophy and a movement to govern charitable giving that has been taken up with gusto by influential tech billionaires (like FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried). Arj and Jordan discuss how some of the thinking behind Effective Altruism may be having adverse effects on the direction of technology more broadly. Links: FTX collapse news story (ABC News) htt...

Dec 05, 202227 min

#41 Choppy seas and safe harbours

This week, Arj and Jordan explore the concept of "safe harbour", a legal concept giving board directors a defence from liability from a privacy or cyber incident. With increased penalties recently introduced for privacy breaches and greater scrutiny on boards and executives, we're starting to hear this idea being floated more often. We explore its merits. We also chat briefly about the Australian Government's new "hack the hackers" gambit and the status of legislation to drastically increase fin...

Nov 30, 202226 min

#40 Twitter goes from dawn to Musk

This week, Arj and Jordan dive into the Musk/Twitter saga. Opinions abound on this one - but Arj and Jordan look closely at how Musk is going with his promise to bring back free speech, the viability of Musk's blue-check verification thought-bubble, and likely repercussions of the departure of privacy, security and compliance officers from the platform. Links: Musk fires engineers after critical posts (CNBC) https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/musk-fires-twitter-engineers-after-critical-posts-on-twi...

Nov 22, 202230 min

#39 To pay or not to pay

This week, Arj and Jordan dive into the vexed question of whether companies should pay ransoms to cybercriminals. The government's position is clear: do not pay. The reality on the ground for most companies is much more complex. Arj and Jordan step through these complexities and the competing imperatives organisations face when confronted with this difficult decision. Important note : This is a complex topic and it's important to emphasise that in this discussion we aren't advocating one way or ...

Nov 14, 202227 min

#38 Rent-seeking data hoarders

This week, Arj and Jordan dive into the issue of privacy and security of data in the rental market. After a spate of data breaches affecting Australian businesses, commentators had been warning of the disaster-in-waiting in the real estate sector. And sure enough we got one. Arj and Jordan explore the underlying factors involved, including practices and attitudes at individual real estate agencies, power imbalances in the housing market and legislative gaps. Links: Samantha Floreani article on r...

Nov 07, 202230 min

#37 A fine balance

We're back after a break. This week, Arj is joined by elevenM privacy practice lead Melanie Marks to discuss the Australian Government's move to significantly lift penalties on businesses that violate privacy, as the nation experiences a spate of serious data breaches. They discuss the likely impact and effectiveness of the fines, clear up some misconceptions about what the fines are actually for, and explore some of the less-discussed additional powers introduced alongside the fines. Links: Pri...

Nov 01, 202226 min

#36 Hipster privacy shall defeat the data hoovering robots

This week, Arj and Jordan get wonky, exploring why public policy approaches to scaling back market power are increasingly dovetailing with reforms to better safeguard individual privacy. The conversation takes them to unexpected places, covering two new momentous EU regulations, Amazon's acquisition of Roomba maker iRobot, and the so-called "hipster antitrust" movement. Links: Article about Digital Markets Act and the Digital Services Act (InnovationAus) https://www.innovationaus.com/eu-double-a...

Oct 18, 202223 min

#35 Once more unto the breach (the Optus one, that is)

This week, Arj and Jordan give their views on the strategic and policy takeaways from the now infamous Optus breach. They explore a philosophical shift in business attitudes to data, proposed legislative reforms, and the broader cultural shift needed in how we collectively approach the building of technology. Links: Jeremy Kirk reporting https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/optus-under-1-million-extortion-threat-in-data-breach-a-20142 Jeremy Kirk on Twitter https://twitter.com/jeremy_kirk/status/157...

Oct 10, 202227 min

#34 What is data ethics?

In this special episode of This Week in Digital Trust we feature an interview by our friend Jonathan Gadir with Chris Dolman, executive manager for Data and Algorithmic Ethics at IAG. Jonathan and Chris discuss the place of data ethics within organisations, how to break down the AI and data ethics risks, and how to think about the governance of these risks. They also use real-world example to illustrate and explore some of the common factors that lead to data ethics risks, such as "poor proxies"...

Oct 03, 202226 min

#33 When the law is not enough

This week, Arj and Jordan explore why privacy and data protection laws sometimes fall short of delivering the outcomes we need and desire - especially those crafted using a principle-based approach. The discussion follows another insightful paper by UNSW law academic Katherine Kemp on the continued practice of ‘data enrichment’, which Prof. Kemp argues is illegal. They also discuss the failed compliance of law enforcement agencies with laws that allow them to access private data. Links: Katherin...

Sep 27, 202224 min

#32 Internet Idol - a contest for the future of cyberspace

It's been labelled “the most important election you’ve never heard of”. This week, Arj and Jordan dive into an upcoming debate over the election of the next secretary-general of the International Telecommunication Union, a 150-year-old body that has been pivotal in the setting of internet standards and policy. The backdrop is a fascinating discussion about whether the long-held Western vision of an open, global, free and secure internet is now over, as more anti-democratic regimes clamp down on ...

Sep 21, 202225 min

#31 Our data is girt by sea

Should companies be forced to host all data about Australian citizens onshore? With debates about data localisation kicking off all over the globe, Arj and Jordan this week unpack the issues surrounding this policy. They also discuss the normalising of surveillance technologies among young people, after a Sydney school introduced fingerprint scanners for access to bathrooms. Links: Home Affairs discussion paper https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/reports-and-pubs/files/data-security/nds-action-plan.p...

Sep 13, 202224 min

#30 You can call me AI

What actually *is* AI? Is the term meaningful? Is it always the best answer? This week, Arj and Jordan explore how technologies like AI and machine learning are being approached, and the growing tendency towards "AI solutionism". They also discuss a couple of provocative proposals to entirely abandon the use of the term "AI", and how this might aid our approach to problem solving and policymaking. Links: ABC News story on botched aged care AI trial https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-31/aged-car...

Sep 06, 202227 min

#29 Unscrambling the cyber strategy egg + the moths still drawn to the flame of facial recognition

This week, Arj and Jordan discuss the merits of the Albanese Government's decision to overhaul the previous government's national cyber security strategy, which included the eye-catching $10 billion funding allocation for Project REDSPICE. They also discuss why organisations continue to consider facial recognition, in spite of the intense uproar over its use in recent weeks and months. This comes as ClubsACT considers trialling the technology in pubs and clubs to enforce self-exclusion requests ...

Aug 30, 202223 min

#28 When knowing you is not enough

This week, Arj and Jordan discuss what it means to be identified online. Does a company "know" you if they can't link the data they hold about you to your real world identity, but can still tell that you're the same person moving from one online service to another? What does our concept of what it means to be identified mean for how privacy is regulated and enforced? Links: Katherine Kemp paper on online tracking by media companies https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4141609 $60m...

Aug 22, 202225 min

#27 Privacy in Israel

In this special episode of This Week in Digital Trust we feature an interview by our friend Jonathan Gadir with Avishai Ostrin, a director with Israeli privacy consulting firm PrivacyTeam. Jonathan and Avishai explore the differing attitudes and approaches to privacy in Israel, many of which stem from underlying cultural attitudes. They also discuss what it's like to be a privacy advocate in a very security-focused nation, and developments involving Israeli spyware company, NSO Group. Links: Avi...

Aug 15, 202232 min

#26 Arrival at the promised land or a deal with the devil? Federal privacy law lands in the US

This week, Arj and Jordan discuss the merits of the proposed new federal privacy law in the US. Also this week - a new once-in-a-decade report from CSIRO also lays out seven megatrends to shape our future, three of which fall squarely into the realm of technology, digital policy and other favourite topics of the podcast. Links: IAPP coverage of American Data Privacy and Protection Act https://iapp.org/news/a/american-data-privacy-and-protection-act-heads-for-us-house-floor/ Daniel Solove opinion...

Aug 04, 202227 min

#25 When Big Tech feels the squeeze

This week, Arj and Jordan look how China is using various levers to pressure Big Tech into compliance with national goals. They also look at how Meta platforms such as facebook have an impact on a range of human rights, after the US giant published a self-assessment. Links: Meta’s First Annual Human Rights Report https://about.fb.com/news/2022/07/first-annual-human-rights-report/ Platformer analysis of Meta's report (paywalled): https://www.platformer.news/p/meta-measures-its-human-rights-impact...

Aug 01, 202223 min

#24 The problem with random acts of kindness on TikTok

The pod is back after being struck down by illness. With their return, Arj and Jordan take on virality of a different kind: videos showing "random acts of kindness" on social media platform TikTok. They dive into why the videos are problematic from a privacy perspective. While on TikTok, they also explore growing concern about the privacy protections surrounding TikTok user data, and what access the Chinese government may have. Links: OAIC opens investigations into Bunnings and Kmart https://www...

Jul 25, 202228 min

#23 Breaking down Twitter's stoush with India, and the secret sauce of scams

This week, Arj and Jordan dive into the growing challenge faced by social media platforms in India, as the Modi government institutes more aggressive approaches to content removal. Also this week is a look at how scams are being carried out, as new data reveals Australians lost $2 billion to scams in 2021. Links: Reuters article about Twitter legal challenge against Indian govenrment https://www.reuters.com/world/india/twitter-pursues-judicial-review-indian-content-takedown-orders-source-2022-07...

Jul 13, 202223 min

#22 A glimmer of hope or a return to bad ideas? The latest on privacy reform

This week, Arj and Jordan get excited about Attorney General Mark Dreyfus' commitment to act on privacy reform within the first term of the recently elected Labor Government, but are given pause by his framing of the issues in terms of individual control and choice. They also re-cap the key reforms being contemplated. Also up for discussion this week is an assessment of how well placed the Home Affairs department is to govern the recent critical infrastructure security reforms the government has...

Jul 05, 202228 min

#21 The lowdown on facial recognition (part II) - how bad is it, really?

*** An apology *** We had some serious audio issues with this episode, due to Arj being in a different environment than usual for the recording of this episode. We've tried to fix it as best we can in editing, but there will be some parts that are hard to hear. Sorry! On this week's show, Arj and Jordan have something of a debate over whether the uproar over facial recognition is really justified, and whether it might be a palatable solution if it improves in reliability and accuracy. Links: New...

Jun 28, 202221 min

#20 The lowdown on facial recognition (part I) and how to talk with robots that have feelings

This week, Arj and Jordan dive deep into facial recognition and how we should regulate it, after a week of strong community reaction against revelations about the use of the tech by Aussie retailers. Arj and Jordan also give their take on the other burning question of the last week - "is AI sentient?" Links: CHOICE report https://www.choice.com.au/consumers-and-data/data-collection-and-use/how-your-data-is-used/articles/kmart-bunnings-and-the-good-guys-using-facial-recognition-technology-in-stor...

Jun 22, 202233 min

#19 Safeguarding our history and national identity, and the fight for anonymity

What's an archivist do and how do we think about their role in the context of digitisation and other technology trends? This week Arj and Jordan are joined by archivist and fellow elevenM-er Cassie Findlay to discuss these questions, as the national broadcaster announces a major cut in archivists jobs. They also look at the implications for online anonymity after a Federal court ruling requiring Twitter to hand over the personal information of the PRGuy17 Twitter account as part of a defamation ...

Jun 14, 202239 min

#18 Slicing up the sausage of tech policy and regulation - what goes into it and how it ought to be made in the future

This week, Arj and Jordan take a look at many influences on privacy laws (some more hidden than others) just as the US introduces a draft federal privacy bill. They also discuss a compelling report laying out a vision for how the tech ecosystem should be regulated. The show kicks off with a quick run through of ministerial appointments and announcements by the new Labor government in Australia, and the potential implications for tech policy. Links: New Government cabinet https://www.abc.net.au/n...

Jun 08, 202235 min

#17 Tech policy under a newly elected government and why childrens privacy needs more attention

This week, Arj and Jordan discuss the implications for tech, privacy and cyber policy resulting from the election of a Labor Government (and a large crossbench of Greens and independents) in Australia. They also explore why children's privacy deserves greater focus from privacy regulators, as a new report shines a light on the privacy harms of EdTech. Links: Australian Federal Election 2022 Live Results https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=a...

May 31, 202229 min

#16 "Privacy Unbound" - an interview with Professor Ari Ezra Waldman

In this special episode of This Week in Digital Trust we feature an interview by our friend Jonathan Gadir with Ari Ezra Waldman, a professor of law and computer science and widely published author of "Industry Unbound: The Inside Story of Privacy, Data, and Corporate Power". Jonathan and Professor Waldman discuss the book and a range of related topics including why privacy matters, the limitations of privacy laws and compliance approaches, and ideas for a more outcome-focused approach to privac...

May 24, 202241 min
For the best experience, listen in Metacast app for iOS or Android