Ep 83 Diabetes: Short & Sweet - podcast episode cover

Ep 83 Diabetes: Short & Sweet

Oct 05, 20211 hr 52 min
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Episode description

Almost everyone is familiar with diabetes mellitus in some way. Whether we know family or friends that have been diagnosed with the condition or we’re directly impacted ourselves, diabetes mellitus has become a household name. And this is perhaps not surprising given its extremely high prevalence - nearly 9% of adults around the globe are estimated to live with the disease. But although we may know someone with diabetes, how much do we know about diabetes itself? How does it work? Why does it cause the acute symptoms and long-term complications it does? Where does an infamous scientific rivalry fit into the story of diabetes? How long have humans been dealing with this disease, and how far has treatment come since the early days of diabetes? And importantly, how has our perception and portrayal of diabetes changed over the course of its history? In this episode, we seek to answer all these questions and many more about the globally-prevalent diabetes mellitus.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Hi, I'm Carla Williamson. I am a Type one diabetic forty three years this August. I was diagnosed in nineteen seventy seven. I was drinking all the time. I couldnot get enough water. My mom said I would go from a water fountain, drink a coke, then drink milk. I couldn't get enough. I was losing weight. My dad was a Type one diabetic also, and my mom had recognized the symptoms pretty early, and back then they did not

have home blood glucose monitoring. So I was out doing yard work and my dad came home for lunch and they called me in the house and said, go in the bathroom, and I want you to use the restroom on this litmus paper. And I went to the restroom urinated on the litmus paper and it turned bright blue, which I knew and my parents knew them that I was a diabetic. So I got diagnosed in the summer before sixth grade. So I started a new middle school. I had one other classmate that was also a diabetic,

but I was really embarrassed to tell anybody. I didn't want anybody to know. So if I had a low blood sugar, I wouldn't want to tell anybody, so I would wait until I was like in a dead sweat and almost out of it. My teacher would say something because she would keep orange juice in her desk, but I did not want to be called out or tell anybody.

I didn't want to be different than anybody. It was not until I was a nurse working in a hospital that I had a friend that was also on a pump, you know, and we started talking and I loved talking about it, and I loved educating. And I found even now that I'm a school nurse, talking to kids with diabetes and letting them see that you can live a

normal life. You're not any different than anybody else. You can do anything you want and live with this disease, but you have to acknowledge it and take care of it is huge and I love playing that role now. So growing up, my friends were very understanding. You know. You would go over and parents would be very scared to have you over because they were like, oh, gosh, she's a diabetic. How do we take care of someone with diabetes? And my mom would say, she can take care of it, she knows.

Speaker 2

What to do.

Speaker 1

My parents handed me the disease at ten years old and said, this is yours. You're going to live with the rest of your life. You've got to learn to make good decisions. So I got out of the hospital on a Monday, and I was at a sleepover on a Friday. So I was always given freedoms and good or bad, I don't know, but to handle this disease. Back in nineteen seventy seven, it's so different than it is now. Everything was no sugar. You could eat anything

you wanted, you just couldn't have sugar. It was one shot a day. It was all long acting insulin. It was beef and pork based insulin back then. So control was not good being ten number one, but also you know, just no way to monitor what you're doing. You peed on a Keto strip that showed glucose and keytnes and then you went to the doctor and had blood work done, and he always said, you're not in control, you're awful. You're going to be dead before you're thirty. You know,

you've got to take care of yourself. So it was not a good thing to hear when you're you know, eleven years old and eleven years old, so I was never well controlled. At sixteen, I went into a diabetic coma for four days. During that they found that I was immune to the beef and pork insulin, and thankfully at that time they had developed the humuline insulin, so they put me on humuline in our MPH, which is a buffer long acting insulin, and humline R, which is

a regular, short acting insulin. But even then it was just two shots a day. Everything was still based on you know, sugars, not carbs. Really, the concept was not there yet for that. So when I was in college, I was in DKA, like every semester or strength too much. You think you're taking your two shots a day, you're gonna be fine. When I was nineteen years old in nineteen eighty seven, I told my mom, I think I'm dying. I don't feel good. I feel horrible. She said, you're

a lazy teenager. And I found a doctor and I said, I don't feel good. I'm taking my insulin. I don't feel good. He put me in the hospital right away, and I was immune to all buffered insulin. So in nineteen eighty seven my life changed forever because I got placed on an insulin pump. I have been under tight control ever since. I just think it's come a long way. I think pump therapy. Now I'm on a censor. They cannot with censor therapy so that reach your blood sugar

all the time. You have so much more freedom now, Just coming from someone from forty three years of having diabetes, I will never complain that I have it like it is part of me, It's who I am. But diabetes is huge. It changes every aspect of your life. You have to think about everything before you do it. You just have to be prepared for high blood sugars, low blood sugars. You have to be able to have a

positive attitude and not ignore it. You can't ignore it, and you have to take care of yourself.

Speaker 2

Thank you so much Carla for coming on and chatting with us. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 3

We do.

Speaker 2

Hi. I'm Erin Welsh and I'm erin Almond Updyke and this is this podcast will kill you.

Speaker 4

Yeah, this is this is going to be a good episode.

Speaker 2

Erin, I think so. I think it's I mean, we say this every time, this is this podcast and we are excited about this episode and it's going to be a good one. And we can't wait to get into it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, you know, we're going to try and keep it short and sweet, right.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but we will fail in our attempt.

Speaker 3

Should we start off with a quarantini?

Speaker 2

Let's do it?

Speaker 3

What are we drinking this week?

Speaker 2

Erin this week, I can barely hold in the laughter. This week we are drinking the aptly named sweet pea sweet pee.

Speaker 3

It's spelled p ee.

Speaker 2

Yeah, get Aaron. Do you want to explain why we're calling it sweet pea?

Speaker 3

Well, I'll explain a lot in the biology section.

Speaker 4

But that is one of the hallmark symptoms of diabetes Melodie, which is the topic of today, and that's having excess glucose or sugar in your pee.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's true. But unlike that pea sweet pea, the Quarantini and Placebarita does not have any sugar in it.

Speaker 3

No, it's diabetes friendly.

Speaker 2

Yeah. The thing is, we were, you know, researching, okay, what are good cocktails for people with diabetes, and you know, again and again it kind of came up as like no sugar, you know, pretty simple stuff, and so what we wanted to do was kind of keep it simple and approachable. And it's actually one of my favorite like go to drinks. It's a vodka soda.

Speaker 4

It's a vodka soda. And if you want the plasiburrita version, it's a soda water with lime. Yeah.

Speaker 2

And the thing is, you know, you can really, you know, spice it up or flavor it up however you want to do it right. You can use infused vodka. You can use lemon or a different kind of fruit instead of lime. You can do anything you want. You can do stevia syrup or whatever. But you know, as a baseline, start with a vodka soda.

Speaker 3

Yeah, do that.

Speaker 4

If you need a full recipe, we will post one on our website. This podcast will kill You dot Com and all of our social media channels.

Speaker 2

So more business. On our website, you can also find things like transcripts. You can find things like a link to our Goodreads list, to our bookshop dot org affiliate account. You can find all of the references to past episodes, promo codes for all of the things we talk about in the ads.

Speaker 4

Saren oh everything everything you need this podcast will kill You dot Com?

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, merchant music. Two more things. I feel like at this point in the season and in our podcasting career, we should have that part down, but shall we don't?

We never ca we never do. Before we dive into the episode, I have one more piece of exciting business, and that is that if you think back to our organ transplant episode, like many months ago, we had on two incredible guests, Carol and Betsy, who shared their first hand accounts with us, and their book titled The Insider's Guide to Living Kidney Donation, is now available, so go check it out. We'll put a link in that episode's show notes and on our website and stuff awesome.

Speaker 4

Should we dive into this probably long episode, let's do it, Okay, right after this break. So here's the thing about diabetes, arin We always say that we're not experts on any of the topics that we cover, true, and it's still true here today. So certainly there are probably going to be like endocrinologists or PhDs in biochemistry.

Speaker 3

Who are, like, you're mussing crucial pieces.

Speaker 4

We're focusing here on the broad strokes, folks. So what I'm hoping that listeners come away with by the end of this episode is an understanding from the biology side of what insulin is and what it normally does, what the essential underlying problems are in diabetes, whatever type we talk about, and why you see the complications that you see. So those are the three main pictures. Okay, excellent, all right,

So let's start with some basic physiology. When a person eats, like a meal, Okay, when you just take a meal, you chew up your food, you swallow it, you digest it, It goes through your small intestine, blah blah blah, breaks down into simple sugars. Proteins break down into amino acids. We absorb them through our gut. Right, we've covered that a lot on this podcast because we've talked about a lot.

Speaker 3

Of gut bugs.

Speaker 4

But usually that's where we end the conversation is after things get absorbed or don't get absorbed into our bloodstream.

Speaker 3

So now we're going.

Speaker 4

To talk about everything that happens after that. So in our bloodstream, these nutrients, sugars, amino acids, fatty acids. These are what our cells use for energy so that we can.

Speaker 3

Live and grow and exist.

Speaker 4

And one of those sources of energy that our cells use is glucus, which is a single sugar, like a one sugar molecule. A lot of tissues use other sources of energy more than glucose, but some of our tissues, including our brain, can pretty much only use glucose, and the way that this gets to our tissues is through our bloodstream, and so that's what we call plasma glucose. That's like the primary source of fuel for our brain

and some other tissues. And it turns out, for reasons that we'll talk about later on, it's very important for our bodies to keep really tight control on our plasma glucose levels. So the amount of sugar in your blood has to be really tightly controlled so that it doesn't.

Speaker 3

Go too high or too low.

Speaker 4

But the problem then is that the majority of our intake of energy, like when we eat, happens in discrete time periods. It's not like we're eating continuously throughout the day. We have periods like overnight where we don't eat at all, and then periods like I don't know, Thanksgiving, where we

eat way too much all at once. So our body has to have mechanisms to store excess glucose like right after we eat a meal, and then also to liberate glucose from storage so that it's available in our bloodstream when we haven't eaten or when we're fasting, and it has to be able to do this in a very narrow window of healthy plasma glucose levels. We can't let the blood sugars get too high, and they also can't get too low. So the question is how do we do this in our bodies?

Speaker 3

The answer is insulin.

Speaker 4

Whatever can we have like a trumpet play?

Speaker 2

Whenever I say insulin in this episode, that would be a lot of trumpeting.

Speaker 3

I would think way too many trumpets.

Speaker 4

So, insulin is a peptide that is synthesized in the pancreas. Your pancreas is just a really incredible organ It excretes a lot of digestive enzymes that allow the breakdown of nutrients, and then a whole range of different hormones that enter the blood stream and have a variety of effects. But one of these major hormones is insulin, and it's secreted specifically by these cells called beta cells in response to elevated blood glucose levels. And insulin has three or kind

of four major effects. Number one, what it does is suppress the release of glucose from the liver, which is one of the main storage sites for extra sugar. It also turns on glucose transporters on our muscle tissue and our adipose tissue, so that that glucose can actually get into our cells and then be stored or used. And it also stimulates glycogen synthesis, which is the way that our body stores glucose.

Speaker 3

And it does so much.

Speaker 4

It also inhibits the release of free fatty acids, which are another one of the major forms of energy that our body uses, and it stimulates those to be stored instead, so we store fat when we have insulin secretion.

Speaker 2

Okay, gotcha?

Speaker 3

All right, that was a lot I know.

Speaker 4

But the like TLDR of all of that is that insulin is a hormone that is secreted when glucose levels are high. An insulin's role is to decrease plasma or blood levels of glucose in our bodies.

Speaker 2

This is like flashback from teaching IB one fifty or one or whatever it is.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it's like way back intro bio biokem oh, yeah, but I haven't even gotten to diabetes, right, So the question is what is diabetes? And at its core, diabetes is a pro problem of insulin. I think that a lot of people think of diabetes in terms of glucose, they're like diabetes.

Speaker 3

Sugar blah blah blah.

Speaker 4

But diabetes is a problem of insulin. So if insulin's normal function is to decrease blood levels of glucose, and diabetes is a problem where insulin isn't working correctly, then the problem in diabetes is you have too much glucose in your bloodstream. H right, Right, So now the episode's over and you understand everything about diabetes, uh huh, Okay, obviously that's not true. We're going to choose your own

adventure a little bit here. Okay, er, okay, are you ready for this, because there's two things that we still need to understand. We need to understand why it's a problem that glucose levels get too high, Like what is it that's happening? Why is that problematic? And then we also need to know how does diabetes actually happen, like what is the essential problem in this pathway with insulin and glucose? Right, So, which do you want to go over first?

Speaker 3

Well?

Speaker 2

I think the problems.

Speaker 4

Okay, like what happens with the problem with insulin? Yeah, exactly, Okay, great, great answer. Erin everyone is probably well aware that there are multiple different types of diabetes, which have a number of different names that I'm guessing you're probably going to go into and a little bit right erin.

Speaker 2

I mean only actually very briefly. Okay, that's fine for most of the history, I just say diabetes.

Speaker 3

Oh, that's fair.

Speaker 4

Well, the different types of diabetes, it is really important to understand the distinctions between them, so we'll.

Speaker 3

Go over it here.

Speaker 4

But essentially, the way that we classify it today is type one diabetes, type two diabetes, and then there's like gestational diabetes, and there's a few other more rare, so we're going to focus on type one and type two. So type one diabetes in general results from a destruction of the beta cells of the pancreas, usually from auto antibodies.

So type one diabetes is an autoimmune condition where our bodies start to make antibodies against our own pancreas as beta cells, which are so important because they produce and secrete insulin, and these antibodies destroy those beta cells.

Speaker 2

What do we know of the triggers for this autoimmune reaction?

Speaker 4

Really good question, arin we don't, okay, So there is a genetic component to type one diabetes, However, what is interesting is that the genetic links with type one diabetes, it's not like a hereditary disease. Genetic links are not nearly as strong actually as in type two diabetes, for example.

Speaker 2

Oh interesting.

Speaker 4

Yeah, So while there are these genetic factors that certainly play a role, it's also environmental factors, and we don't know exactly what those environmental factors are that then lead to this autoimmune disease. There's a lot of thought that maybe it's viral involvement, like in people with certain susceptible genotypes, exposure to certain viruses or certain other environmental conditions trigger this autoimmune response that then leads to type one diabetes.

But which viruses, great question, We don't know. People have proposed, like name a virus. It's probably been proposed as a potential cause, especially viruses that are really common epstein bar definitely, CMV absolutely all of us. Next one influenza, Yeah, influenza I think has been on that list too, But nothing that's like a strong association to be able to pin

down one specif virus. Yeah. But in short, because of this, type one diabetes results from a complete inability to make insulin, So no insulin in your body means nothing to bring down those blood glucose levels, nothing to signal your body to store that glucose or allow that glucose into our

cells so that we can actually use it. And for the most part, this disease tends to happen on a pretty quick timescale, especially when it happens in kids or adolescents, like the process of starting to generate these antibodies and then the slow destruction of these beta cells and then the onset of diabetes symptoms happens pretty rapidly. It can happen in adults as well, and then it tends to be a bit slower of a course, and we don't

know why. Okay, So that's type one diabetes and kind of the underlying causes.

Speaker 3

You look like you have a question.

Speaker 2

Well, I don't know if it's something that you're going to go over in the other path of m choose my own adventure.

Speaker 4

Well, okay, then let's wait, and if you still have it at the end, then ask it.

Speaker 2

Okay, just like, hold all questions till the end of the presentation, please.

Speaker 3

And then it'll be more of a comment.

Speaker 2

Yep, all right.

Speaker 3

So type two diabetes is.

Speaker 4

A bit more complicated than that. Type two diabetes results from a combination of different things, including beta cell dysfunction, but not necessarily destruction.

Speaker 2

What's the difference between dysfunction and disruption, just like producing less insulin?

Speaker 4

Right, yeah, so either producing like not great insulin or just not being able to produce enough insulin or making insulin but not being able to secrete it. Whereas in type one diabetes, your beta cells are obliterated, They're gone, right, Okay, Yeah, So it's a combination of beta cell dysfunction and insulin resistance. So you have insulin, you're making insulin, but your tissues are not responding to it the way that they're supposed to.

So what does that really mean? Right? It means that in general, people with type two diabetes have either one or both of two different problems going on. Problem one, like I said, their beta cells are not making enough insulin for whatever reason, they just stop being able to produce enough insulin or secrete that insulin into this bloodstream. Or problem number two, their tissues become resistant to these effects. So then the pancreas secretes more and more insulin. So

what we actually see is a hyper insulinemia. That means you have a lot of insulin in your bloodstream, but it's not being used properly and so it's not effective. And therefore you still have too much glucose in your bloodstream.

Speaker 2

So you just have like a bunch of like insulin and glucose, you know, circulating around. So what does it mean that your tissues are no longer responding to insulin in the right way? Like what's going on there?

Speaker 3

Yeah, good question.

Speaker 4

A whole bunch of different things. In part, it's that you actually can see down regulation of the number of glucose receptors on tissues. So glucose has to be actively transported into your skeletal muscle and your adipose tissue. It can't just like legle its way in there. And so in type two diabetes, you can have less receptors on those cells, like they progressively get lower, or like a whole host of other things can happen.

Speaker 3

But that's kind of the main ones.

Speaker 4

But why, Okay, we'll get to the why.

Speaker 2

Okay, hopefully maybe maybe Okay, okay, we'll approach the why.

Speaker 3

But yeah, we'll we'll slowly get to the y. But one question, because because in many.

Speaker 4

Cases we actually see both of these things happening simultaneously. So then there comes this question of which comes first.

So the way that I like to think of it, and again this is very simplified, but I think it's kind of a just a nice framework to have, is that as you start to have this increase in insulin resistance, so your tissues are down regulating the amount of receptors that they have so that the glucose can't get into the tissues, you have an increase in insulin resistance, and your pancreas recognizes this and it's like, gosh, we have

just so much glucose running around. So your pancreas is working really hard, like working overtime, to make more and more insulin, and that then causes your tissues to become even more desensitized to that insulin because they're just overloaded.

It's like insulin overload, there's so much of it. So then your pancreas makes even more and then eventually your pancreas is just exhausted because it's been working overtime for so long that it starts to just give up and then either making cruddy insulin or just not making insulin or not secreting it. Like, what's the point You're not going to even respond to it, I'm gonna quit. So now you have both problem one and problem to problem to exacerbating problem one and causing this vicious cycle.

Speaker 2

What's the timeline for that to happen?

Speaker 4

That's a good question, and it's hard to put an actual timeline on it, especially because when you look at like a population level, there are a whole lot of people who have what is sometimes called pre diabetes or just I forget the other proper term for it, but it's like increased fasting glucose levels where they have this

higher than what is considered typical baseline glucose. And so some of those people will then progress to type two diabetes, some people won't, and some people have like both problems going on. Some people maybe have only a little of one. So type two diabetes is very complicated.

Speaker 2

Interesting, and so when it comes to type two, part of the problem is like the resistance seems like the biggest part to target for treatment, right, Like how do you reduce resistance because it seems like that's sort of what's contributing to the pancreas just being overloaded and like poof, I can't do this anymore.

Speaker 4

Yeah, that's a good thought, and we actually have a lot of medicines that do exactly that to try and make your tissues more sensitive to the effects of insulin, and that is for some people, really good treatment for diabetes. But we'll just have to keep talking because there's more to the story.

Speaker 2

Excellent, love that song, my favorite track.

Speaker 4

I just made it up just right off the top of my head. All right, So now let's talk Now that we understand the underlying problem with these two different types of diabetes, let's talk about what the symptoms of these diseases are, and then we'll finally get to that second part of the Choose your Own adventure, which is like understanding why this high glucose is a problem, because that really is what drives the symptoms, right so classically,

especially with type one diabetes. However, all of these symptoms that I'm going to talk about can happen with type one or type two diabetes. But because type one tends to happen faster and type two tends to be a much longer course, the more acute symptoms tend to happen more in type one diabetes, and the chronic complications can

happen in both, but certainly in type two diabetes. So classically, somebody with diabetes presents with what is often called the three p's, that is, polyurea, polydipsia, and polyph phasia, and also weight loss. So what do those mean and how does it happen? So as your blood glucose levels rise, eventually your kidney, which is responsible for filtering everything in your blood, just can't filter all of that glucose and get it back into your bloodstream because there's just so

much of it. So your kidney starts excreting glucose. After your blood levels reach about one point eighty.

Speaker 3

It just starts.

Speaker 4

You start peeing out sugar, hence the.

Speaker 3

Name I'm quarantine sweetpee.

Speaker 4

And glucose. Just like lactose does in our guts see our lactose intolerance episode. Glucose is an osmodic diuretic, so it holds onto the water along with it. So now you're peeing out a ton of water because your kidneys aren't holding onto the glucose or the water. So that's the first P polyuria, which leads unsurprisingly to massive dehydration, causing the set second P polydipsia, which means major increase

in thirst, like unquenchable thirst. And at the same time, the lack of insulin in your body, which is driving all of this, essentially means that your body is unable to use any of the glucose that you have in your bloodstream. So while you technically have plenty of fuel, your body thinks that it's in starvation mode, and so it switches to what's called catabolic metabolism, and that is breaking down your tissues to use for fuel, which leads

to major hunger. That is polyphasia the third P. But despite this, you see weight loss because you're literally eating your own body tissues to use as fuel, really really bad things, very bad things. And then you have other symptoms like fatigue unsurprising because this is taking a major toll on your body, blurry vision, muscle cramps because you're

electric lights are way out of whack, et cetera. And when this gets very severe, which happens in about twenty to forty percent of cases in people like presenting for the first time with something like type one diabetes, it's called diabetic keto acidosis.

Speaker 3

A lot of people have probably heard of this.

Speaker 4

It is exactly what the name implies.

Speaker 2

So I just I just looked this up to clarify something and that I had popped into my head, and I remember, do you ever see the movie Steel Magnolias, you know, Julia Roberts.

Speaker 4

I have never seen Steel Magnolias.

Speaker 2

Okay, well, you know, I hope this isn't too much of a spoiler, but there's definitely Julia Roberts play someone who has type one diabetes, and there's like I thought it was a keto acidosis like attack. No, it was actually hypoglycemia. And but I need to rewatch that movie now after doing this episode.

Speaker 4

Well, you saying that just made me think of Honey, I shrunk the is it, honey, we shrunk ourselves.

Speaker 2

I think it's number three? Yeah, and number three is the baby.

Speaker 4

But I don't remember what banana. I just he needs bananas because of the potassium. But is that because he's diabetic, because you do need potassium? I think so, I don't know anyways, that that's is.

Speaker 2

There are many of them, I believe, all right.

Speaker 4

So diabetic ketoacidosis. So if you're thinking about that classic presentation that I talked about as that can kind of progress if it goes unrecognized, or if somebody has like a low level of that going on the three p's and then they get some other stressor on top of it, like an infection or just something that stresses their body out, as that person becomes even more dehydrated and just continue this process of breaking down their fat stores. Their liver

then starts this process of ketogenesis. Ketones can be used by the brain as an alternative source of fuel. However, they are an acid and therefore lead to the blood becoming acidotic, which because of dehydration, is compounded by lactic acidosis, which then further worsens kidney function, which makes it even harder to excrete those keto acids because that's one of your kidney's jobs. And this acidemia can eventually lead to

brain damage. And on top of that, your body compensates via respiration to try and make your blood alkalolotic by something called cousmall breathing, which is essentially hyperventilation, which can then lead to coma and death.

Speaker 2

It's very severe, Okay, So when people refer to a diabetic coma, it's ketoacidosis like it.

Speaker 4

Very often, Yes, it can be Okay, Yeah, so that's kind of the acute complications of diabetes type one or type two. But those tend to happen more in type one. But certainly somebody with undiagnosed type two diabetes might have symptoms like a little bit of polydipsia, maybe some polyuria.

Speaker 3

Et cetera.

Speaker 4

So now let's think of it in terms of long term. Why is having too much sugar in your blood bad long term? And a lot of people might know of some of the common kind of side effects of diabetes. Aaron, do you know some of them just off the top of your head.

Speaker 2

I mean, I know that kidney disease is a big problem. I know ulcers are a big problem, Like amputations are really common. Blindness or retinopathy is really common, I think, just like loss of sensation in your extremities.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, peripheral neuropathy.

Speaker 4

Yeah, and all of those things that you just talked about, plus the cardiovascular risk, so risk of clots, especially in your heart or your brain.

Speaker 2

Right, heart attacks are really common too.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 4

All of those can be split into kind of two different but very similar processes. Those are microvascular complications, so small blood vessel problems and macrovascular complications, so large blood vessels, heart brain, okay, But either way we're dealing with vascular complications and in some cases direct damage to nerves as

well as blood vessels. So the question is like how exactly do these complications occur, and that is probably the subject of many different PhDs worth of research, But in general, chronically having way too much glucose in your bloodstream leads

to a state of chronic inflammation. This then leads to the production of reactive oxygen species, which we've talked about a number of times on the podcast, which are basically things that then cause a bunch of tissue damage, especially in blood vessels, causing vascular injury, and that can lead

to all of those complications that you mentioned, Aaron. So it has major effects on the kidneys, especially if you think about it, this is where all of that glucose is going and the kidneys are filtering everything in your bloodstream, so kidney damage is a major one. Blindness is caused from retinopathy where you have damage to the nerves of the eye and also increased blood vessel formation that leads

to increased pressures behind the eye. The peripheral neuropathies, which can lead to a loss of sensation that can then lead to injuries that are complicated by poor perfusion because those blood vessels are damaged, So then those ulcers don't heal because they don't have any blood flow, so then they become gangrenous, and then yes, you have to do amputations.

Speaker 2

It seems like there are parts of the body that are more sensitive to this. Kidneys make sense because they're having a difficult time with the filtration. Heart makes sense because blood blah blah blah. What about like your stomach or like you know, other organs, I mean, what's going on with those?

Speaker 3

Yeah, great question.

Speaker 4

I think a lot of people think that diabetes, oh, your kidneys, your eyes. Diabetes is a disease that affects every single organ in your body. So your stomach, Diabetes can affect your autonomic nervous system as well as your peripheral nerves, and that damage, along with a host of other things, can lead to delayed gastric emptying. So it can cause your stomach to not be able to contract the way that it's supposed to so that you can actually get your food to empty from your stomach, which

can lead to a whole host of problems. So, yeah, diabetes affects every part of your body. It has the greatest effects and the earliest effects on small blood vessels.

Speaker 3

That's why we see.

Speaker 4

Things like neuropathy or retinopathy because those are really small vessels. But then it also has the potential to have complications on larger vessels like your heart, your brain. It affects the entirety.

Speaker 3

Of your body.

Speaker 2

Yeah, okay, that makes sense, and that's the biology of diabetes. Erin, uh, did we get to the why? I've been waiting?

Speaker 3

I know you have been waiting.

Speaker 4

We don't have a great answer to the why, but I have a guess as to the answer in our current events section, so we'll just have to wait.

Speaker 2

Oh okay, all right, okay.

Speaker 4

So Aaron, tell me what do we know about this? I assume it's been with us since forever.

Speaker 5

Yeah, let's start back at forever right after this break.

Speaker 2

All right, So this is a long episode so far. I'm going to add to that. I'm going to do something a little bit different for this episode, and that is to divide the history section into two parts, not like sequential chapters, you know, like happened and then this happened, but more like parallel histories in a way awesome. And for this first part, I'm going to focus on the

standard history that I usually cover for a disease. You know, things like early writings, increasing recognition of the condition, and medical advancements, especially when it comes to diabetes, the discovery of insulin, you know, all the things that like completely changed the landscape of diabetes, especially in the twentieth century.

And then for part two, I really want to go through the other transformation that diabetes went through around that same time, and that is the social perception or portrayal of the disease, especially focusing on the US.

Speaker 3

Excellent. I can't wait, alrighty.

Speaker 2

So let's begin at the beginning. It probably doesn't surprise you to know that diabetes has long been recognized by many different ancient cultures. You went through the symptoms of diabetes, and especially for the like acute symptoms, and they're pretty recognizable and unique, so it makes sense that they were written about at length for thousands of years. It was mentioned in the Ebres Papyrus, my favorite, in the form

of a treatment for a symptom of the disease. So quote a medicine to drive away the passing of too much urine, and in the sixth century BCE, the Hindu physician Sushruda described a disease of honey urine which could be detected either through tasting it directly or by observing ants gathering around a pool of urine ooh yeah. And the word diabetes itself comes from the second century CE, when the ancient Greek physician Aretaeus coined it from the

Greek word for to run through or pipe like. He also described the disease as quote melting down of the flesh and limbs into urine, and the word melodis, from the Latin word for honey or sweet, was added later on to again indicate the sweetness of the urine. Galen around the same time as Aretaeus described it as quote diarrhea of urine, and Avicenna in the tenth century CE wrote a thorough description of the disease and its complications. So the sweetness of the urine had long been recognized.

The sweet pea was people were very familiar with it, but it wasn't until the sixteen hundreds that a physician in Liverpool named Matthew Dobson realized that it was actually sugar causing the sweetness. He made the observation when treating a patient who was urinating fifteen liders of fluid a day. Oh, so to like, because I think when we say, oh, you pee a lot, like, what does that actually mean? Right? And so this person was peeing fifteen leaders of fluid a day. That is.

Speaker 3

Way too much.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, we just have a little we have a little sidebar.

Speaker 3

Yeah, to do a little calculation.

Speaker 2

Who was really boring, So we had to cut it.

Speaker 4

But for reference, a typical amount of urine output is between eight hundred and about two thousand millileaders or two leaders a day a day.

Speaker 2

Yeah, ooh yeah, so we've been talking about sweet pea and yeah, I mean people did have to taste it like. That was how a lot of the diagnoses were made, you know, mostly were made, but at least one doctor successfully fermented the urine to produce what he described as like a weak beer urine beer. Yeah.

Speaker 3

That should have been our quarantine.

Speaker 2

That should have been our quarantini. And this taste test remained the main way of diagnosing someone with diabetes until the eighteen hundreds, when chemical tests were developed to detect and measure glucose in the urine, much to many physicians relief. I am sure around the time that these tests were developed, the medical world was undergoing a pretty big transformation in terms of our understanding of disease. Yes, I'm bringing up

germ theory in the history of diabetes, oh okay. But as researchers and clinicians learned about infectious diseases and applied that knowledge to prevention, a lot of chronic diseases grew more visible as morbidity and mortality from infectious diseases dropped right and when they did, they grabbed some research attention

to themselves. So from the middle of the eighteen hundreds it was increasingly recognized that the pancreas played some role in the disease, thanks to the rise in autopsies that had been happening that showed that damaged pancreases were often found in people with diabetes, and in eighteen eighty nine at the University of Strasbourg, two researchers named Oscar Minkowski and Joseph von Mehring showed this experimentally that the pancreas was involved when they induced diabetes in a dog after

removing its pancreas, and it was all over that like, peeing everywhere in the lab and I'll do it. Minkowski was like, what's going on. I'm so annoyed. This dog is house trained. Why is it peeing everywhere? Oh my gosh, it has diabetes. But how exactly was the pancreas involved

was happening? Additional experiments removing part of the pancreas or grafting bits of a pancreas, showed eventually that the pancreas seemed to have two secretions, one external that seemed to help with digestion and one internal that went right into the bloodstream to help with carbohydrate regulation. But where did

the internal secretion come from? In nineteen oh one, Eugene Opie at Johns Hopkins showed that damage to the islets of Langerhans, which were named for their discoverer, that that damage prevented the production of this internal secretion, which then led researchers to speculate that if this internal secretion, which by the way, was totally hypothetical at the time, if it could be isolated, it could potentially be used to treat diabetes.

Speaker 3

This is so cool.

Speaker 2

It is amazing that people I just can't believe like the pancreas, like the functions of the pancreas at a time when like bioassays were non existent.

Speaker 3

Right, it's just people being so.

Speaker 4

Kind of intuitive or or maybe it's deductive. I don't know, but it's just it's smarter than me.

Speaker 3

I'm so impressed by it.

Speaker 2

Well, I think also, you know, to give a little bit more historical context, at the time, this wasn't necessarily as huge a leap in thinking as we are looking at it to be right, This was actually in line with a lot of other medical advancements that were happening showing how certain organs produced hormones, like the field of you know, endochronology was kind of burgeoning at this time, and that it was recognized that these hormones regulated bodily functions,

and disruptions in the production of these hormones could then lead to certain diseases, especially once like you know, germ theory was like, all right, let's do the low hanging fruit. We got all these diseases, Okay, what are all these now? Like, yeah, what's happening? And then in the eighteen nineties it was found that giving someone like thyroid extract could actually help treat some conditions. So in this line of reasoning, it you know, made sense that pancreous extract could possibly do

the same. But early experiments with these pancreous extracts that were performed around the very early nineteen hundreds on humans had you know, mixed results. If I'm unsurprising, if I'm feeling generous, yep, okay, And if I'm not feeling generous, I would say mostly harmful and sometimes outright dangerous okay. But in any case, they didn't really suggest that this was like a good path forward, like this was not

the clear way to go. So what was well, Despite the growing visibility of diabetes and all these advancements in understanding its pathology and being able to diagnose it, one area that was sorely lacking was in treatment. Throughout the seventeen hundreds and much of the eighteen hundreds, the leading treatments for diabetes were basically the same things that you would use to treat anything, right, Bleed them and shoot them up with opium like that boom. If you know

how to do those things, you're a doctor. In the seventeen hundreds, and there are very few diseases that would actually benefit from bleeding, but they do exist hemochromatosis, but diabetes was not one of these. Yeah, and opium, of course, that isn't going to make diabetes or many things better.

Speaker 1

No.

Speaker 2

No. Diabetes was generally viewed as a disease of downhill progress, and for someone diagnosed with what was then known as acute or juvenile onset diabetes now type one, the life expectancy following diagnosis was like one to three years. Often it was months. It wasn't that much longer for those with what was viewed as the chronic form either. It was essentially a death sentence. Like across the board, medications and tinctures and infusions seemed to be of no help

for the disease. But there was one thing that seemed to slow the progression of the disease maybe even though it did nothing to cure it. Starvation diets. Yeah. Yeah, So during the eighteen seventy Siege of Paris, when food was rationed and many people were near starvation, one doctor noticed that the urine of some of his patients with diabetes had dropped in their glucose levels, and that their

symptoms had begun to improve a little bit. So the logical step was, well, if we severely limit the caloric intake of people with diabetes, we can reduce the symptoms of the disease. And this was the opposite of previous thinking, which was like, oh, this person is losing weight, we need to feed them more, right, right, So, after this observation, starvation diets really kind of got their start. And it

wasn't always strictly starvation. You know, some diets were just no carb diets, some were just certain carbs like oats only, but in general they were calorie cutting, with most diets restricting you to fewer than five hundred calories a day. Oh my, yeah, that is not a lot.

Speaker 4

That is no, you can't live on that long term.

Speaker 2

But exactly, yeah, I mean, and these starvation diets did seem to work, like to a degree. I mean, they did nothing at all to cure or even effectively treat the disease, but they did in some cases just like slow the progression and help manage these glucose levels. But the stories are horrifying, right. For instance, one woman forty three years old was admitted to the hospital in nineteen sixteen, weighing seventy nine pounds or thirty six kilograms, and was

told to fast. And the last record of this patient showed her weighing sixty pounds, less than thirty kilograms before she broke her fasting diet and died shortly after.

Speaker 3

Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2

And another really sad story is of a twelve year old boy with diabetes. Already blind from the disease, he was brought to the hospital so that his food could be closely monitored and his calories even more restricted. His weight dropped to forty pounds, but the blood glucose didn't seem to be dropping, and so he they cut even more and he died of starvation.

Speaker 3

Oh my god.

Speaker 2

So these starvation diets, in addition to slowly killing you, were also largely unachievable for most people with diabetes because they require the time and the money to monitor and weigh each individual food item and rest and it was just like not a reality. Yeah, So, going into the twentieth century, the available treatments for diabetes were really more of a choice among evils, right, die of diabetes or of starvation or of opium addiction, just like take your pick.

So the need for effective treatment was very obvious and incredibly pressing, even more so since cases seemed to be on the rise, and so far the only thing that had showed any real promise were the experiments with pancreas extracts that I had mentioned earlier. Despite their limited success. In particular, the work of two researchers, Georg Zulezer from Germany and Nikolay Pelescue from Romania, showed that there might

be something in it. In nineteen o six in Berlin, Zulzer had treated some humans with pancreatic extract but the side effects produced were like really severe and so we had to stop the project. And ten years later, in nineteen sixteen, Paulescu had succeeded in treating a diabetic dog with a solution of pancreatic extract, like it lowered its

blood sugar levels. Just okay, super cool, promising, But his work was disrupted by World War One when he was called to service, and by the time he got back he picked up his work again, but like funds were super limited and he was working almost by himself, so

it was just kind of like hard to get things moving. Yeah, and neither zules or Paulescu would end up getting the recognition they felt they deserved for their role in one of the most monumental and one of the most contentious medical advancements in the twentieth century, the discovery of insulin.

Speaker 3

Insulin do that horn again?

Speaker 2

In fact, like this, the history of this discovery continues to be like a fairly debated topic in medical history, like who should get credit for it? And so I'm just going to do the best I can to navigate those tensions. Yeah, So let's meet one of the central characters of this story, Frederick Banting born in Ontario in eighteen ninety one. He began med school just a couple

of years before World War One broke out. He joined up, he helped treat combat soldiers, and after the war was over, he tried unsuccessfully to get a permanent position at the Toronto Hospital where he did his residency in orthopedic medicine. So he decided that he was gonna move to London, Ontario set up a private practice. But it was really pretty unsuccessful, like he couldn't quite get it off the ground.

And in fact, it seemed like a lot of areas in his life were just like filled with struggle and strife and uncertainty, like he was always on and off again with his fiance, and he seemed like he was always sending out like job applications. He seemed like desperate for a change of scenery or a change of pace

in his career. Late one October night in nineteen twenty, while trying to fall asleep and what seems like, as he described stress spiraling y yeah, absolutely, his mind drifted to a paper that he had recently read to prep for a lecture that he was giving on like I think carbohydrate regulation. And this paper, which was written by Moses Baron, discussed the role of the islets of Langerhans in the internal secretion of the pancreas and its possible

role in diabetes. And he turned the idea over and over in his mind and kept thinking about it and came up with what he thought was the solution to the problem, like a way to isolate that internal pancreatic secretion and it would involve surgical removal of degenerated pancreases and dogs and extraction of the secretion from those pancreases.

And the next time he was on campus, he brought up the idea to a professor at the university where he was affiliated, and the professor was like, you know, no, like sorry, but we just don't have the resources for that. And also there's no one at the university here that knows enough about it to be able to help you. But hang on a second. There happens to be somebody visiting who might and that somebody turned out to be JJ R. McLeod visiting from the University of Toronto, who

was an expert in diabetes and carbohydrate metabolism. So Banting met with McLeod. McLeod wasn't like super impressed by Banting, who had a lot of enthusiasm and confidence, but that confidence wasn't really backed by like a lot of background reading on the subject. He was just like, I'm gonna do this and it's gonna be great.

Speaker 4

Oh and we've met those.

Speaker 2

Yeah, And McLeod was like, you know, people have spent their entire careers working on this problem. Do you know about these people? Do you know the work that they've done. But over the conversation, McLeod became more and more convinced and became eventually interested enough to say, Okay, you know what, sure come to the University of Toronto whenever, and you know, we can try to set something up, but you know, think carefully about this decision because it would mean giving

up your practice and your affiliation here. And also like there's kind of a low chance that you would be successful, because you know, this is not a new problem, like people have tried this before. So Bantin gave it some time and thought and decided to give it a go. But after the other job applications that he had sent out had fallen through, and after his fiance had dumped him yet again, so he was like, you know what I lose, I'm getting out of here. So so yeah,

so we packed up his apartment. He headed to Toronto and got there in April nineteen twenty one, and apparently he had done no more reading on the subject in the meantime, oh or not, my goodness, not very much, because when he met with McLeod, McLeod was like, Okay, so I think this is how the experiments should go. We'll start with this, and then we'll do this, and then we'll do this. Let's you know, see how we begin.

He showed him how to do the procedures et cetera, and then he was like, also, you know, maybe you should read these papers, read these books, get a little more background in it. And then McLeod headed back to

Scotland where he was from for the summer break. But before he did that, he gave Banting an undergraduate research assistant named Charles Best to help on the project, and he kind of spent a little bit of time, like a month and a half or so, kind of walking them through these surgical procedures that they would use on

the dogs. The experimental plan went a little something like this. First, Banting and Best would get practice Banting on performing the pancreatectomies and Best using the blood and urine tests, and both of them observing what diabetes and dogs look like

like the course of disease. And then Banting would ligate the pancreatic ducks in other dogs, allow them to recover while they're pancreas's atrophied, and then reoperate on these dogs, removing their degenerated pancreases and extracting the internal secretion from them, which he would then inject into the dogs that had been made diabetic from the complete removal of their pancreas.

Speaker 3

Huh.

Speaker 2

It didn't need like it was later realized that the atrophy didn't need to happen, but that's yeah, that was what they thought needed to happen first.

Speaker 4

It's interesting that that that part of it worked.

Speaker 6

I know, well, you know, and it it It didn't really work at first. It things got off to a really rocky start.

Speaker 2

And it's really sad because a lot of dogs died in the course of this experiment and in many other experiments, especially after the surgeries, which you know, keep in mind these were the days pre antibiotic, so like they would just die of sepsis, good surgeries, no, no, And in fact, so many dogs died that they began to like buy dogs off of the street because they had almost depleted the store of university dogs. Like this would not fly nowadays,

just fly. I everyone I cook would be like like, nope, you are getting your research whatever credit. Yeah, you're not allowed to do research at this university anymore or any ever again, yes or any Yeah. But finally, finally, after many failures, things began looking up. They were able to successfully extract the secretion from the pancreas injected into depancreatized diabetic dogs and bring them back from the brink of death and out of a diabetic coma by rapidly dropping

their blood sugar. This was like thrilling yeah, and Banting was quick to see and believe in the potential of this extract for the treatment of diabetes and humans. But McLeod, who was now back from his trip, he was urging a bit more caution. He was like, all right, why don't we just try repeating these experiments first, making sure we have like good you know, sample size, and we'll

publish the results. See if we can refine the process and make sure that like we know exactly what we're doing and that other people can replicate it.

Speaker 4

Oh, I don't like where this is going.

Speaker 2

By your tone, it's there's so much drama, it's it's absurd and I won't even go into it all. But so Banting was like not really, he was like not' I don't want to have to wait for this. But but also he didn't really have a lot of like bargaining power. Banting had been working these past few months with like on no salary, on no official position with

the university. He was just sort of there, and so he said to McLoud, you know what you're gonna pay me, You're gonna give me another assistant to take care of the dogs, and you're gonna have repairs done to the operating room. And McLoud was like, okay, that's actually you're asking for quite a lot, and other research at the university would suffer if, you know, if I were to give all of this to you. And Banting's like, I

am gonna walk away from this. This is you know, blah blah blah, and so McLoud was like, you know what, Okay, fine, you're right, your work does show promise. Let's let's keep it going. So this meeting might be where we first see the tension rise between Banting and McLeod. And at this point Best was already aware of Banting's tendency to be scornful, disparaging, you know, impatient, and quick to anger. He had been yelled at at least once for dirty glassware.

But this might be this might have been the first time that McLeod saw it in action, And this meeting might also have been when the seed of hate was playing in Banting form a cloud. Yeah, it's like really a toxic It's a whole toxic story and toxic place.

Speaker 3

Oh my gosh, yeah, but that seed of hate.

Speaker 2

It bloomed like wild that December of nineteen twenty one, at the Annual Physiological Society meeting, Banting and Best were due to present their research on the internal secretion of the pancreas, which had progressed since the summer with the use of pancreas is from cal fetuses and then alcohol for extraction from whole fresh pancreas, and things were taking along and all of their results were pointing towards successful treatment of diabetes in the animals that they were working with.

But at this meeting, during his presentation, Banting like totally flubbed it. He was a terrible speaker. He stumbled over the results and it got so bad that McLoud Cloud had to keep like stepping in to clarify something or to include a crucial detail that Banting had left out. And he answered questions and then to add you know, insult to injury, or at least as perceived by Banting. McLeod kept saying, we we extracted this and we injected that.

Banting was fuming there. He was I can only imagine just like standing up there in front of the who's who of diabetes researchers in North America and basically not being able to string a coherent sentence together while your supervisor is taking what is perceived to be taking all the credit from you.

Speaker 4

I can one hundred percent imagine that, and it is so cringe.

Speaker 2

It is really yeah, And that's and so Banting like he didn't He wasn't the type to just silently fume. He was like ranting and raving to all of his friends, like McLeod is a horrible person, he's stealing all my results, blah blah blah. It like really became very bad. And I will say, in defense of McLeod, anyone else who worked with him doesn't describe him that way. It seems like Banting was the only one to sort of accuse him of being incredibly territorial or taking credit or stealing credit.

So anyway, I don't want to get too much into the whole, like.

Speaker 4

You know, India lab drama, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2

And at this point it was the entire lab like McLeod had shifted gears, like these results were super promising, and so McLeod was like, you know what, everyone, almost everyone in this lab is going to start working on this pancreaus problem, and he also brought on eventually a visiting biochemist by the name of James Collop, who was added to speed up the extraction and purification process. And so things were happening quickly now, with the first human

clinical trial in January of nineteen twenty two. So just you know, from April nineteen twenty one when Banting arrived to Toronto to the first clinical trial January of nineteen

twenty two, that's very fast, too fast, I mean. So the first person to ever receive this pancreatic extract was Leonard Thompson, a fourteen year old boy who on admission weighed only sixty five pounds, whose hair was falling out, abdomen distended breath smelling of actone, and who was on a diet of four hundred and fifty calories a day.

Speaker 3

Oh my gracious.

Speaker 2

On January eleventh, Leonard received the first injection, which led to a twenty five percent reduction in blood sugar and a slight reduction in urine glucose. But overall the results weren't like super promising, especially since the impurities in the extract led to like an absess forming at the injection site.

So the trial was deemed premature and there was a rush to make a more pure sample, something that Banting took upon himself to make like a competition with Callup, who was like, I don't this doesn't need to be a competition, Like, can't we just work on this?

Speaker 1

Yeah?

Speaker 2

Tensions mounted Callop one he like found a better purification process, and the new, more purified extract was injected into Leonard with much better results on January twenty third.

Speaker 3

Oh wow.

Speaker 2

But a few days before then, before this injection happened, Banting and Callop had gotten into a fight that was at least verbal and possibly physical. Oh my, because accounts differ. When Callup announced, he walked into the room and announced that he a fine tuned the purification protocol. B was going to keep it a secret from Banting in Best and not reveal any part of it, and see that he was going to file a patent on it under his name alone.

Speaker 3

Oh my, gracious.

Speaker 2

And apparently McLeod had okayed all of this. What so then this led to I would imagine a huge yelling match among most, if not all parties, Banting and Best and McLeod and call Up. I mean, the battle lines were very clearly drawn, with those two groups on you know, banting a best on one side, call Up and McLeod on the other. And then a ceasefire of sorts came in the form of a signed agreement that none of them would patent the process and that they would have

to be transparent with each other about research developments. I mean, they didn't become friends or anything, but you know, at least like for now, it seemed to have de escalated. But in any case, the animosity and drama was there to stay. I mean, wow, it wasn't going anywhere. I again, I can't even get into it all like, there's a great book, I'll recommend that kind of you're just like

what he said that. Yeah, And so, beginning in the spring of nineteen twenty two, the lab group began publishing their results. But the important thing is that the popular press picked it up, and that generated a lot of hype among the many people who lived with diabetes. It was in one of these first publications that was a big comprehensive one from April nineteen twenty two, that the

term insulin was first used. And there's no record as to like why or how they chose that word, but it's based on the Latin route for island, referring to the islets of Langerhans.

Speaker 3

Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 2

It was clear to everyone in the field that this research marked a new era for diabetes research and treatment. It would certainly be a bad time for things to fall apart, wouldn't it.

Speaker 3

Oh, Aaron.

Speaker 2

So Banting had begun to drink heavily and several times decided, you know what, I'm I'm quitting this whole thing. I don't want to be a part of this anymore, until best you know, talked him out of it and call up. On the other hand, was having, you know, more like lab centric problems. He had lost the knack for insulin production. He like couldn't he couldn't figure out. He was like, whatever I was doing before is no longer working for me, and I don't know why what.

Speaker 3

That's weird.

Speaker 2

It's weird, and it's bad because it led to this in slin famine among the people who had already received injections and were needing those to help regulate their blood sugar. And then MacLeod was simultaneously worried about the lives of the people who needed that insulin, and he was also worried that someone else was going to figure out the

production process and patent it. And so even though McLeod Banting in Best were reluctant to patent it on principle, they wanted to stop other people from creating a monopoly, and so they filed this type of patent that would prevent that from happening.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 2

McLeod also realized that if they wanted to turn this insulin into an actual medical product that people could reliably get their hands on, they needed to get a pharmaceutical company involved, which is how Eli Lilly came to be so closely associated with insulin. It was someone from Eli Lilly at that very first meeting and they were like working very closely with the Toronto team to get the

soul ability or license to try to manufacture this new insulin. Yeah, but you know, the drama of discovery, the incredible tension among the researchers, the difficulties in streamlining or fine tuning the production process. All of these problems were overshadowed by the absolutely enormous impact that insulin was having on the lives of people with diabetes. A lot of accounts at the time describe the drug, describe insulin as miraculous, and

it's kind of hard to disagree with that. Yeah, Like a sixteen year old boy brought out of a diabetic coma from an insulin injection, the first time that had ever happened. A bedridden child jumping around the room hours after being given insulin. Perhaps the most famous patient from the time was Elizabeth Hughes, who was daughter of the US Secretary of State, who kept journals of her life pre and post insulin, And at the time of her first insulin shot, the fifteen year old Elizabeth weighed less

than fifty pounds. That's like twenty two kilograms. It's yeah, and she was close to death. A few weeks after receiving her first insulin shot, she gained ten pounds. Wow, and a lot of health problems resolved for her, and she went on to live like a healthy and relatively long life. And there were a million more stories just like these. Insulin saved and continues to save so very

many people from what was absolutely a death sentence. Yeah, it kind of reminds me a lot of like the stories of when antibiotics were first developed and first introduced, and it was like it was raculous. It was coming back from the brink of death. It must have been unbelievable to witness. So who was responsible for insulence development?

And who gets the credit? And are the answers to those questions the same, Well, it depends on who you ask, right, If you ask Banting, it was Banting with a little help from Best. If you ask McLeod, it was McLeod Banting and Callop. If you ask Paulescu, it was poulsq And if you ask the Nobel Prize committee, it was Banting and McLoud. So in nineteen twenty three the two were awarded the Nobel Prize. Banting was only thirty two

at the time. Oh yeah, gosh at the time. I think he was the youngest for like physiology and medicine or whatever the grouping was at the time. But Banting was furious. He could not believe that his and McLeod's name were both on the prize.

Speaker 3

Oh goodness.

Speaker 2

He believed it should have been him and Best, and so at first he was like, you know what, I'm going to refuse this prize. I don't want anything to do with it. And then eventually he was like, Actually, what I'm going to do is I'm going to split it with best men. That's what he did, and McLeod in turn decided that he was going to split it with Callop. Okay, I don't know who deserves it, honestly, I mean, does paulsc you deserve some credit? Absolutely sole credit?

Probably not. Would Banting have gotten there without McLeod or

without call Up probably not. All these tensions and credit debates aside, though, the important thing is that insulin was now available, and just in the way that blood transfusions for hemophilia turned that disease from an acute disease to a chronic one, insulin prolonged the lives of those with diabetes, but it was also not a cure, and the long term consequences of diabetes, particularly type one, were emerging, such as kidney disease and retinopathy and all the ones that

you've already discussed in the biology. So I'm not going to go through these next things in detail. But following the discovery and production of insulin, a lot of other important developments occurred. Frederick Sanger discovered that insulin was a protein and described its structure, for which he was awarded a Nobel Prize in nineteen fifty eight, his first of two yep and Dorothy Hodgkin, whose name you might remember

from our antibiotics episode and our radiation episodes. So she used X ray crystallography to work out the three D structure of insulin. A lot of research focused on treatments for the long term consequences of diabetes, such as kidney disease and ulcers and kidney transplants, and some really important work was done by Priscilla White on reducing perinatal mortality in people with diabetes by introducing sex hormones treatment, which

hugely increased survival of the babies. And there was yet another Nobel Prize for diabetes research co awarded to Rosslyn Yallow in nineteen seventy seven for developing the radio amino assay to measure the concentration of hormones like insulin, vitamins, viruses, enzymes, and lots more stuff in humans. Genetic engineering allowed for the mass production of biosynthetic insulin, and I think we might have touched on that briefly in our Ecoli episode.

It was basically like engineering ecoli to just like pump make a ton of insulin that sounds vaguely familiar, and then the threat of bovine sponge offormencephalopathy in bovine derived insulin and kind of put for like this switch towards human insulin. And then insulin pumps were developed, and since the nineteen seventies they've shrunk in size considerably and increased

their capabilities considerably. In nineteen seventy nine, diabetes was officially divided into two types, insulin dependent diabetes melodice and non insulin dependent diabetes melodus, or type one and type two as they were called beginning in nineteen ninety five and in the late nineteen seventies is also when gestational diabetes and what was called maturity onset diabetes of the young were also recognized. There have been too many developments to

even mention. This year twenty twenty one marks the one hundred year anniversary of insulin, and over that time diabetes has un under gone a huge transformation in terms of our understanding of the disease and our ability to treat it. But the story isn't over because alongside these medical developments, diabetes was going through another kind of transformation in the twentieth century, a social transformation. If you will, Okay, Diabetes

Part two, I promise this is a lot shorter. So I know I've been talking for ages.

Speaker 3

I've been enjoying it.

Speaker 2

Okay, good. I hope that remains true. So I can only speak for the US or my experience in the US, but in many things that I've read or seen on TV, or I've heard in the classroom, there's this sense that diabetes type two in particular is a personal choice, with this tinge of morality surrounding it in some ways to how STIs are talked about, like oh, you did these things,

so like what do you expect? You deserve this? These are the consequences for your actions, And this I think reflects a huge problem, not just in showing like a complete absence of empathy, but also in revealing a general lack of understanding about the multifaceted nature of this disease and refusing to acknowledge the institutional drivers that increase the

risk of diabetes. Yeah. So, when I was prepping for this episode, I read a book called Diabetes, A History of Race and Disease by Arlene Marsha Tuckman, where I learned that it's kind of like always been this way, Like there's always been sort of this Oh well, these are the consequences of your actions, or like, oh, this is a personal disease, like this is something that you did, right.

It's always been very much like a blame the individual or the identity of the individual, kind of a disease with a particular trait or group at fault being the main thing that has changed over the decades. I had no idea before researching this episode, but it turns out that diabetes started out as a quote like Jewish disease in the late eighteen hundreds, when the visibility of diabetes and other chronic diseases was increasing as infectious diseases declined.

Diabetes was literally given the name quote the Jewish disease in Europe because of the supposed high prevalence of the disease among Jewish people, and the reason for this high prevalence varied based on the individual views of the person you ask or the person who was writing this article.

It could be because of the long years of cruel persecution faced by Jewish people that led to this high levels of stress, or it was because they overindulged in ate rich foods, or maybe it's because they had a quote nervous disposition, or it was just a way of saying that this disease had you know, foreign roots, since the immigration of Jewish people from Eastern Europe was really

high during this period. But whatever the perceived reason or stated reason at the time, this association grew global and it became entrenched in medical literature and in the minds of practicing doctors for decades, so like from the late eighteen hundreds to like a few decades into the twentieth century. Huh, yeah, was there actually an association, I mean without any quality statistics from the time. We can't say for sure, but

it seems unlikely. It seems that it was more bad statistics turned into common knowledge and then like helped along by confirmation bias. Like definitely a citation needed moment, and that was a big problem that just kept being repeated in the literature without any citation or citing someone who just said, it's really highly prevalent in Jewish people. And even if there were numbers in these articles, was the categorization of you know, Jewish and non Jewish even helpful?

Was it meaningful? Both groups were very heterogeneous. So drawing those lines was really a way of kind of like pushing a certain narrative. The way that you draw the lines is definitely like you have a bit of forethought about what statements you want to make when the numbers all kind of fall out, right, Like what's important to you about those divisions? And often you know, as it

is now, but as it was back then. You know, those divisions were a way of saying that something about your race, or your background, or your culture made you more likely to have this disease. And we see this theme, you know, race presented as an explanation for disease again and again in the history of diabetes, with Black Americans and the Native Americans and Mexican Americans and so on.

And certainly the use of racial categories and epidemiological studies can be very helpful, but they're helpful for confronting and trying to understand institutional racism and inequalities in health care or access. Not to further the myth of race as a biological construct and yet erin and yet aarin Okay, so from its reputation as a you know, quote Jewish

disease in the late eighteen hundreds. Diabetes slowly began to be viewed as a disease of man moral failing, especially in the years following World War One, which were a period of economic growth and increase in consumables and big cultural shifts, leading to culturally conservative people shouting that, like, the increasing rates of diabetes were a sign of moral decay, of this like gluttonous, over indulgent society that has no

self control. The shifting from a Jewish disease to like a more general sign of you know, moral decay or whatever also happened as more studies were done to show that there wasn't actually much of a difference in terms of stats, right, and this moral failing or over indulgence or just the rate of diabetes, it had a class structure to it. Diabetes had shifted its reputation to one

of middle and upper class and generally white people. In fact, it was thought and published in medical journals that black people were immune to diabetes. What it was literally in medical journals, Well, they are known to be immune. Same was said about Native Americans also, So why did people think they were immune to diabetes?

Speaker 7

I don't know, Aaron, Why, I mean, we don't know for sure, we can speculate it's likely that it had a large part to do with a lack of access to primary care physician or hospitals.

Speaker 2

So like doctors just simply weren't seeing diabetes and black people because they weren't treating black people. And it's also possible that doctors simply were like, well, I'm not going to test the urine of a black person because they're immune. I read that in the literature, so there's no point in even testing you for diabetes. But the reasons for

this lower prevalence were given or written about in racist terms. Right, Black people didn't have the quote like nervous strain or quote mental strength for diabetes.

Speaker 3

What I know it is, what does that even mean?

Speaker 2

Basically, what I gather from this is that people wanted diabetes to mean whatever they wanted it to mean. Yeah, they couldn't find a cause, They couldn't explain why it happened, and so then they looked around and thought, Okay, what is the narrative I want to push. Yeah, it all had to do with just like individual biases, societal biases, and you know, racist ideals. It's yeah, it's so weird

erin it is yeah, it's all about the narrative. But then here comes another shift, right, another transformation of diabetes. So when actual statistics introduced in the nineteen twenties showed that rates of diabetes didn't differ much between black and white Americans, but do you know what did? Mortality rates

from diabetes. And another factor that contributed to the overall growing visibility of diabetes among black Americans was the increase in black medical doctors who wanted to help improve the

health of the communities that they served. And what many of these doctors saw was also reflected in the stats from the time and also from today that as poverty increased, the rates of diabetes rose, and that diabetes in general seemed to be on the rise in the nineteen thirties and estimated half a million to two million people in the US were living with the disease, and it rose to be the ninth lead and cause of death in the US in nineteen thirty six, which is up from

the twenty seventh in eighteen ninety. The development of insulin in the early nineteen twos ties helped out a bit with like the management of diabetes, but a lifetime of injections was still costly and long term effects were still present. And also, since this is an episode of TPWK, why I have to mention eugenics. So here we go obligated eugenesis. As you might guess, we're not a fan of insulin saying that it would increase the numbers of unfit people in society.

Speaker 3

I saw it coming here. It still hurts every time.

Speaker 2

Every time. But a huge problem with the eugenesis arguments, you know, besides the fact that they're terrible and they were making judgments on who should or should not reproduce, was that no one could predict who would get diabetes. Right still, you know it is true today the how of diabetes was beginning to be worked out, but the why had not yet been answered and still isn't really fully answerable. We'll get back to it arin, Well, why

did some people get it in others not? Why were we seeing an increase in the US In nineteen sixty two, James Neil thought he might have the answer. Have you heard of the thrifty genotype? Yeah? Okay, it's basically this idea proposed by Neil that this thrifty genotype would have helped early humans live through periods of unpredictable food availability, so you would store more fat in times of plenty

to prepare for times of famine. But in the US and other developed countries where diabetes was on the rise, there weren't really these times of famine, and so the thrifty genotype went from good to bad. It began to backfire. And at first this thrifty genotype hypothesis was just used to explain a global growth in diabetes prevalence, but with recent reports showing a disproportionately high rate of diabetes among some Native American groups, it became used in this colonial

narrative of quote primitive and quote advanced societies. And in this narrative, some Native American groups were said to be more prone to develop diabetes because they were quote primitive people who were rushed into quote you know, modern living conditions and they were unequipped to deal with the diet and lifestyle.

Speaker 4

That is such a mischaracterization of yeah I can't.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's it's quite the turn from diabetes as a mark of civilized society that was popular earlier in the century, and the thrifty genotype hypothesis is not well supported at all, I should note despite it continuing to be pushed by some people Jared Diamond, but by couching the high prevalence of diabetes in certain Native American groups in biological or genetic terms or concepts, it made and continues to make it possible for the government

to ignore their own role in the cycle of poverty, in the impact of displacement, genocide, and federal policies that lead to higher rates of disease, not just diabetes. Speaking of the federal government, in the nineteen eighties, a nationwide study called the Heckler Report investigated racial and ethnic health disparities in the US, and what they found was that diabetes, specifically type two and mortality from diabetes occurred at disproportionately

high rates among non white people. The report framed diabetes as I quote disease of minority groups. It barely acknowledged the role that poverty played, but rather it emphasized the racial and ethnicity differences and to some degree, sex differences.

This continued the long tradition of attributing diabetes to a moral failing or personal quality, or to a certain racial or ethnic background, all the while ignoring the role that poverty and other factors like food, deserts, like the ability to be active, that all of these things can play. Diabetes is such a nuanced disease, but it seems as though somehow we struggle still to make sense of that nuance and present it in a way that is like, oh, okay,

there are multiple parts to this story. So I've rambled on and on, and Aaron, why don't you bring me up to speed and what's happening with diabetes today?

Speaker 4

I'll do my best erin, let's take a quick break first. Why don't we just start straight in with the numbers. We'll get right to it, and then we'll go through advances and treatment and then hopefully answer a little bit

more of your question of the wyat and how oh good? So, according to the International Diabetes Federation, in twenty nineteen, diabetes and this is all types of diabetes, of which generally ninety percent or so are type two and five to ten percent type one, and then gestational and the other types of diabetes account for the other percentages. So in twenty nineteen, diabetes caused four point two million deaths worldwide

and four hundred and sixty three million adults. This is just adults between age twenty and seventy nine were estimated to be living with diabetes, and that number is likely to rise to up to seven hundred million by twenty forty five because both type one and type two diabetes have been increasing, right, and it gets a little worse. The true disease burden, especially for type two diabetes, is likely a gross underestimation because one in three people who

have diabetes are underdiagnosed. That's over two hundred million people WHOA. Yeah, And then if you also account for all of the people who have impaired fasting glucose or what sometimes is called pre diabetes, the vast majority of those people have no idea that that's what's happening inside of their bodies.

Speaker 3

Hmm okay, and a good.

Speaker 4

Proportion of those people may go on to develop type two diabetes a little worse than that. While there's a lot of variation in both incidents and prevalence of both types of diabetes across the globe, like different prevalences in different areas, overall, more than eighty percent of people currently living with type two diabetes are currently living in low or middle income countries, which, especially as we talk about the new developments in treatment poses additional challenges because most

of these are unsurprisingly very expensive, and there are of course major economic and social hurdles for people living with diabetes in low and middle income countries, but also across the globe, including here in the US. For example, insulin prices in the US are truly an abomination. In twenty eighteen, a unit of insulin was ninety eight dollars and seventy cents in the US, compared to eight dollars and eighty one cents.

Speaker 3

In thirty two other countries.

Speaker 4

And while diabetes is certainly not exclusively a disease of low income, when you consider not only the price of insulin, but the price, like I already said, of so many of the newer and in some cases better drugs for type two diabetes that are also incredibly expensive, Diabetes certainly contributes to the cycle of poverty across the globe. So that's all the bad news, and I know there's a lot of it, but there's at least some good news

on the horizon. I usually talk about whatever's going on in terms of research, and a lot of times I feel like I've been like, ohh, there's not much going on and it's like depressing. But today I don't have a lot of very specific things to go over. But that's because there is so much research going on in terms of diabetes that there's simply too much ground to cover, which is amazing. That means that there's so many people working on so many different aspects of this in terms

of new treatments. When we look at type one diabetes in general, and I apologize if there's even newer things that I have missed, but in general, the treatment is still just insulin, and while that sounds simple, it's a very complex to kind of get regimens and know how

much you have to give, et cetera. But some incredible advancements for type one diabetes or insulin dependent type two diabetes is the development of continuous glucose monitors and like you mentioned, increasingly small and easy to use insulin pumps that can keep much tighter control of that glucose, which can then prevent the development of complications.

Speaker 3

So that's incredible.

Speaker 4

When it comes to type two diabetes, Oh my gracious, the number of new drugs. I think there's a new one every day, and a lot of them. Like we kind of touched on a bit before are touching on different mechanisms of diabetes control. So previously things were just working on increasing the amount of insulin that people secrete.

But now because we know that insulin resistance is a big component, there's other types of treatments that are targeting tissues to make them more susceptible to the effects.

Speaker 3

There's a lot of really cool stuff.

Speaker 4

Going on with type two diabetes treatment.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's interesting, it's.

Speaker 3

Very very cool.

Speaker 4

There's also so much work being done to better understand the genetic components of both types of diabetes. So I want to kind of stick with that for just a moment and then we'll wrap up. So, both type one and type two diabetes have genetic links, but it's not like any of the genetic disorders that we've covered in the past, or it's like a single gene. It's many different genes, and it's not a strong genetic component for

either type two or type one diabetes. But one of the biggest questions, Aaron, that you kept asking me was the why the how, especially when it comes to type two diabetes. And so, like I mentioned, both type one

and type two diabetes have a genetic component. Type two diabetes has a much stronger genetic component, meaning if you have a first degree relative with type two diabetes, you are much more likely to develop type two diabetes yourself than you are if you had someone with type one diabetes to develop type one.

Speaker 3

That makes sense, uh huh okay, So there's a much.

Speaker 4

Stronger genetic component to type two diabetes, but it's not a single gene. It's very multivariate, and just like with type one diabetes, there's also a huge amount of environmental components that go into the development of type two diabetes. And some of these are what are often called modifiable risk factors, and these are factors in the environment that can change and that can lead to risk of diabetes.

The things that we know that are the most strongly associated are sedentary lifestyle, which is essentially just means not getting a lot of physical activity throughout the day. Another is diet, So having a diet that's really high in sugars that are like the kind that you find in soda is really strongly associated with type two diabetes. And then the one that cited the most frequently is obesity.

So BMI is the indicator that we use to classify obesity and obesity in the US at least, is considered a disease, which is then also considered a risk factor for diabetes, among other things, type two diabetes specifically. And BMI is not just in my opinion, but also in my opinion, not a good indicator of health. Not only does BMI not take into account things like muscle mass or the distribution of adipose tissue, whether it's central and around your organs versus on your life eggs, or arms,

et cetera. BMI also ignores so many of the social determinants of health that play into the overall risks of diabetes and so many other diseases. So be am I an obesity In general, it's not a good indicator, but in the literature it is considered a risk factor for type two diabetes.

Speaker 2

M Mechanistically, what is it about those things that causes insulin resistance and like a faulty production of insulin?

Speaker 4

Yeah, and that is the question that we still absolutely do not know the answer to. But here's something exciting, and it still doesn't address the question of why those risk factors then lead to this. But I found a couple of articles that are really promising on the underlying mechanism before you even get to insulin resistance, and that is dysfunction in the brain itself.

Speaker 2

Huh.

Speaker 4

So, dysfunction in the hypothalamus that was treated with a single dose of something called fibroblast growth factor resulted in mice in sustained diabetes remission a single dose. So these papers were basically suggesting that what happens, for whatever reason, from this genetic susceptibility and these environmental factors is that the effect on the hypothalamus in your brain is to increase your body's set point for what is an okay level of glucose That is.

Speaker 3

Super interesting, isn't it fascinating?

Speaker 4

And so then by giving this dose of this FGF one, what they were doing was lowering back that set point to something more like one twenty instead of like two hundred or whatever. So then your pancreas doesn't have to compensate to try an increase insulin because your body, your brain is telling your body it's okay to let my blood glucose get this high, and your pancrease is like, no,

it's not, it's really not. Again, that still doesn't address this underlying question, but it does give us a much better target right for the like mechanistic cause, did you.

Speaker 2

Come across anything about epigenetics.

Speaker 4

I mean, epigenetics is a huge part of this, right, and that's but no, I didn't read any papers about it, and so I don't know like what those mechanisms are.

Speaker 3

But with any of these.

Speaker 4

Like polygenic and gene and environment things, I think epigenetics

plays a huge role. But I think too, Aaron, getting back to what you were saying in the last part of your history section, is it's so important, especially in a disease like diabetes, when we're talking about things like these modifiable risk factors, to not lose sight of the environment that we are in and these structures of government of our society that force us into this environment where we can't do physical activity because we're sitting at a desk at our jobs for ten hours a day and

then we're driving in our car an hour each way to work, and then we can't afford to buy fresh leafy greens because they go bad in twenty minutes in your fridge, and also they don't taste that good. Like, there are so many things that play into this. It's not an individual choice, it's so much bigger than that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's it's a really multifaceted yeah, like issue and discussion.

Speaker 3

And again BMI is a bad indicator. Hoof.

Speaker 4

Well yeah, don't get me started on that one. So that is diabetes.

Speaker 2

In brief, in brief, you know, short and sweet. We kept it nice, long and sweet.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Sources, so I will mention I basically relied on three books. The first one is The Discovery of Insulin by Michael Bliss. I feel like it's a really well researched and even handed look at you credit for the discovery of insulin. And apparently there's also a mini series about this story called Glory Enough for All. I think it's on YouTube.

And then I also read, as I mentioned earlier, Diabetes, A History of Race and Disease by Arlene Marcia Tuckman, and finally Diabetes The Biography by Robert Tattersall.

Speaker 3

Awesome.

Speaker 4

The vast majority of my biology for the first time in forever, came from a single textbook, so big shout out to the Principles of Diabetes Melodis by Poritzky editor, and then a few other papers here and there for a little bit of specifics and if you're interested in that brain glucose research. I have two papers, one from Nature Communications twenty twenty and another from Diabetes that was

from twenty nineteen. They're both really interesting, very detailed papers, and we'll post all of these sources for this episode and every episode on our website. This podcast will kill you dot Com.

Speaker 2

Thank you again so much, Carla for coming on and chatting with us. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 4

Yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 2

And thank you to Bloodmobile for providing the music for this episode and all of our episodes.

Speaker 4

Thank you to the Exactly Right Network, of whom we're very proud to be a part.

Speaker 2

And thank you to you listeners for listening to this very long episode.

Speaker 3

Is a real doozy and what it is.

Speaker 2

And thanks also especially to all of our supporters on Patreon. We love you and appreciate you. I mean the depth of our appreciation and knows.

Speaker 4

No bounds, no bounds whatsoever.

Speaker 2

Okay, Well, until next time, wash your hands.

Speaker 3

You filthy animals.

Speaker 4

M

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