E479 Near-Death Experience Expert Dr. Jeffrey Long

today's guest is a practicing physician he's an author And he's a researcher into the phenomenon of near-death experiences. He has done the largest case study, over 5,000 cases of near-death experiences. And he wrote the book, Evidence of the Afterlife, The Science of Near-Death Experiences, which is a New York Times bestseller. I'm grateful to be able to spend time with him today and get to learn about... what's right on the cusp of the afterlife. Today's guest is Dr. Jeffrey.

I'm sitting here with Dr. Jeffrey Long, and you had the New York Times bestseller, like you were just saying, The Evidence of the Afterlife, The Science of Near-Death Experiences. And that term is fascinating to people. You know, you hear near death. It's like because that's what we're everybody's so afraid of that line that, you know, it's in the finality of it. I want to start this by asking what is what quantifies near death experience?

Now, different researchers have different concepts, but the research definition that I've always used is exactly what the name implies. You're near death. In other words, you're so physically compromised, you're unconscious, or you may be clinically dead with absent heartbeat. Now, at that time, it should be impossible to have any lucid conscious remembrance. And yet people do have that remembrance at that time, and that's the experience part of a near-death experience.

Okay, and why is it at that time that you shouldn't be able to have any lucid brain activity? Why is that? Sure. Let's talk about what happens to the brain after a cardiac arrest, which means the heart stops beating. Okay. The moment the heart stops beating, Theo, obviously blood immediately stops flowing to the brain. 10 to 20 seconds after that event, the EEG, which is electroencephalogram, a measure of brain electrical activity, goes absolutely flat.

There's no measurable cortical brain activity. 20 seconds after the heart stops. After the heart stops and after blood stops going to the brain. It should be impossible to have any remembrance at that time, let alone the highly lucid and organized. near-death experience. So you started to kind of quantify or collect the experiences people were having at that point.

Absolutely. I've been researching and gathering near-death experiences for over 25 years. I was so fascinated when I first heard about near-death experiences. And I really wanted to study them, but with the best methodology possible. And that being people that actually had near-death experiences sharing their first-person experience. Right. So over 25 years ago, I established the Near Death Experience Research Foundation.

A research website which encouraged people to share a narrative of their experience but also had a scientifically designed huge number of questions actually as a survey so that not only were we getting large numbers of near-death experiences. but we were learning about them from all those survey questions at a depth that heretofore had been impossible. Okay, so you create a website where people would go that had had near-death experiences.

and they would start to just list out the information, write? Like, what were kind of some of the questions that you would ask to somebody? Sure. Well, first, of course, we have them give the narrative of their experience. We don't want any leading questions prior to that time. But then once we start, and currently the website survey has over 80 different questions. Some of the questions include the leading research tool called the NDE scale, which is a series of 16 questions.

that are sort of different degrees of expressing that particular element or not expressing it at all. But in addition to that, we have dozens of other questions that help establish Basically, demographic questions, male, female, where do you live? When did the experience occur? Also, content questions, which is a very strong focus of the survey. And then finally, importantly, after effects. How did their life change after that? How did their life

change in response to that amazing near-death experience. Wow. So 25 years ago, you start the website. People start reporting what's happening. You start collecting this data. Were you surprised at the number of people? What are some things that kind of shocked you out of the gate?

Right off the bat, I realized there was overwhelming consistency even in the first few dozen near-death experiences I saw. Everything I knew as a physician told me, this is not possible. You can't have highly lucid, conscious experiences when you're... unconscious or clinically dead. And yet here, the very first few dozens of people sharing with me very clearly, and what was very impressive, is the remarkable...

consistency of the elements they were describing. What happened during the experience, the elements, or if you will, characteristics, not only were they very consistently seen across many, many near-death experiences, but they typically occurred in a very consistent and logical order. This is nothing like dreams or hallucinations or any other type of... pathologically altered consciousness, I realized very, very quickly

And as I was to learn even more and more, gotten more and more experiences shared with me, near-death experiences are, in a word, real. What were some of the things that led you to believe that they were real? Oh, absolutely. the overwhelming consistency. Now, while no two near-death experiences are the same, if you study a lot of them, and Theo, I've studied over 4,000. So with that huge data set, it's kept me busy. It's my second full-time job.

St. Peter over here, milling around. Yeah, it's tough to be a full-time doctor, which I'm trying to do while doing that as my other full-time job. What I have observed and other near-death experience researchers see is that very consistent pattern of what happens when you have a near-death experience. Well, of course, there's that life-threatening event. They're unconscious or clinically dead. No heartbeat.

But at that time, a very common first element is what's called an out-of-body experience. Consciousness separates from the physical body and goes above the body. Now, from that vantage point... they can see ongoing earthly events, often including people frantically trying to bring them back to life. They may then go into or through a tunnel, variably described often at the end of the tunnel. There's a beautiful, unearthly, they emphasize, light.

In that, after passing through the tunnel, then at that time, they may be in an unearthly, what some call a heavenly realm, aptly described. It's very different from what we've known everywhere on our earthly life. It's literally a non-physical realm. Movement is non-physical. Communication is essentially always telepathic. Time is almost invariably described as either radically different from earthly time or not existing at all.

In this realm, this unearthly, beautiful, heavenly realm, there can be encounters with deceased loved ones. There can be a review of a part or all of their prior life called a life review. At this point, they can be... colors like in plants and landscape.

that are so beautiful that there are no earthly words that they have to describe them. There can be buildings. Around this time, there's often a decision that they make as they interact with other beings about whether to stay in this beautiful unearthly realm. a return to their earthly life and that body struggling to survive. Okay, so those are the most common characteristics of the near-death experiences. And what would be like your strongest evidence that this actually happens? Because—

Anybody can kind of go on a website, you know, any naysayer would be like, anybody can go on a website and fill it out, right? Sure, there's been a ton of people that have done it, but what's the most common evidence that you believe that this has happened, that you believe? Oh, absolutely.

Theo, we talked earlier about that out-of-body experience where consciousness goes above the body, above the unconscious or comatose physical body below. What I and other researchers have investigated is how accurate are those? observations in that out-of-body state and amazingly in my study over 98 percent of what people are seeing and hearing with their physical body unconscious down below, is accurate down to the finest detail.

And in fact, they can make these observations in that out-of-body state geographically far from their physical body, far outside of any possible physical sensory awareness. For example— What do you mean when you say that? Just before you get to the example like— geographic like what do you i'm a little sorry i got confused there yeah let me give you an example of what i'm talking about we had one relatively recent near-death experience lady was riding a horse

and was out basically breaking in the horse, and the horse threw her off, and she hit her head. Very severe head injury, immediately unconscious. She had that out-of-body experience, consciousness above her body, saw her body lying on the ground. saw the horse heading back to home, but then her consciousness went to where she had started prior to her journey, the barn, and she was able to hear other people talking.

aware of what they were saying, doing. They didn't know that she was fighting for her life over a mile away. because they weren't aware of that. They only were aware of that when the horse arrived without her. And again, she was able to see and bring back all that information.

verified down to the finest details of what she was seeing. And a mile away, obviously, there's no way you're going to see, hear, or perceive in any way with your normal sensory function and so that's a common thing people like so hovering kind of outside of themselves so people leaving their physical realm right you leave you

And I guess, do they feel okay being away from themselves? Do they feel like, jeepers, I got to get back into myself, like when you lost your phone or something, you know? Or does it feel like... That's what I would be like, gosh, because if I'm just milling around, it's almost like you're just naked, like you're as naked as you could be. You're naked down to your soul. You know, that's a good assumption. And I kind of wondered about that, too, early in my research. But amazingly.

Even though these people are unconscious or clinically dead and may have had severe trauma or illness, problems that led to that episode of unconsciousness. When that consciousness separates from their physical body, they essentially never describe any pain. It's unusual for them to feel fear about consciousness apart from their body. Far more commonly described is a sense of calm, a sense of peace, a sense, amazingly, that this is actually their real conscious self.

That being non-physical and apart from their body down below. Ah, so that's a common thing that people say, oh, this felt, that felt a lot more real than the existence I've been having in my body. Oh, absolutely. In fact, we have a survey question. And we asked people about what they said or what they ultimately decided about the reality of their experience. And in our survey of 834 people that had a near-death experience where we asked that question.

93.8% said their experience was definitely real. And over and over as part of that, they were saying it was more real than anything they'd known in their earthly life. They typically have acceleration of consciousness, amazingly the substantial majority. even though they're physically unconscious or clinically dead, are actually thinking, processing at a speed they simply couldn't have done in their earthly life. Wow.

A good example of that is we talked briefly about the life review. I mean, just imagine that. Here you are, unconscious or clinically dead. And yet about a fifth of people have a life review or they may see part or even all of their prior life. Here they are unconscious just for often minutes, certainly, you know, less than 30 minutes almost always. And yet.

At that time, they're reliving, viewing all that went on in their prior life. An amazing demonstration of just how rapid consciousness can be during a near-death experience. So that's one of you said one out of five people had that. Yeah. Life review. OK. And a life review. Yeah. I mean, I think that makes sense because the brain is like the ultimate function of the brain is to organize. And.

And I feel like a lot of times, I guess it would make sense if your brain is worried that it's going to shut down, it's still trying to... Like it would almost show, it almost seems like, say if. It's trying to prove at the last second, hey. But what I've been doing makes sense. Here's my work. It's almost like you're trying to show your professor, like, look, I have the beginning. I have the next. I have this. I have this. Doesn't this check out?

Does that make any sense, thinking like that? Absolutely. That's how I thought for a long time going into my near-death experience research. Absolutely. I assumed, as I think most people would rationally assume, that near-death experiences had to be due to physical brain function because, Theo...

That's how we think. That's how we live our life. I mean, that's what we're used to. We haven't really, in general, had any particular experience of consciousness or awareness that wasn't part of our physical brain. But that is the amazing thing about near-death experience.

During the life review, it's not a matter of them using their physical brain. It's like that consciousness apart from the body where they're seeing and hearing things. Theo, you can't possibly do that with normal physical sensory awareness. And in fact... We have scores and scores of near-death experiences. that had their life-threatening event, typically their heart stopping, while they were under general anesthesia.

Now, under that blanket of sleep, it should be, and as many of you know that have been under general anesthesia, I mean, the brain just shuts off. There's no possible remembrance at all. And at that time, they're carefully monitoring vital signs. I know, I've been there. I'm a doctor. Theo, it should be doubly impossible for the physical brain to produce any kind of awareness or experience.

From being under anesthesia, it should be completely impossible scientifically for the brain to recall anything. Absolutely. And yet, at that time, by the scores, me and other near-death experiences, researchers, are finding that they do have near-death experiences, typical near-death experiences like all others. So that is, if you will, doubly impossible that that could be due to the physical brain function.

Okay, but how do you know something is not just a dream? I'm trying to think of another word for a dream, but I don't know another word for it. Yeah, well, that's a good one. I mean, in all of our lives, we typically have dreams. That's very common. Near-death experiences are nothing like dreams, Theo.

At the risk of embarrassment, I'm going to share with you how I found out about that. At the very dawn of putting a survey up on the website, I asked the question, was your experience dreamlike in any way? And oh, I was embarrassed at the response. No way, no chance, absolutely not. Emphatic over and over again for people having near-death experiences, emphasizing this had nothing to do with dreams. So I quickly let go of that line of questioning.

Again, you know, when you hear about a near-death experience that seems so unearthly, people normally would think, gosh, isn't that like a dream that I'm familiar with? Nothing, absolutely nothing like a dream. It's far more lucid and conscious. A dream, Theo. Typically, events may skip around. in an illogical order. Yeah, it's almost like that movie Gummo, Connie. You ever seen that? I've heard of it. Yeah, I haven't seen it. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's, I mean, it's...

It is what it is, but yeah, it's like somebody made a collage. Dreams sometimes feel like a collage. I love that. That's a great way to look at it. You're typically less lucid, less conscious than earthly, everyday life. events and the dreams skip around because, well, they're like dreams.

While it's a different type of altered consciousness, it's actually a hyperlucid consciousness. Which is interesting when you say that, because like whenever I, so, and I don't want to like just equate this to ayahuasca, right? i'd done drugs in my life you know and you know have you ever done any No, actually anything. No, I actually haven't. You haven't. Yeah. No. Oh, yeah. And that's OK. Right. And some people do them. Some people don't. And.

But when I went and did ayahuasca, it was not like doing a drug. People were like, do you get messed up? You know, it's like, no, dude, it is a intent. emotional boot camp where like you're like you almost your thoughts suddenly have of a response to them in a way like suddenly you're like the world thinks back at you that's what it feels like kind of I never really was able to think about it

But the world, you can feel the world literally thinking back at you and reflecting. So you get so much. There's a lot of. like solving of problems because you're not just wondering and putting things out in there and waiting for you to solve them. It feels like nature or the world or God or a higher entity. or a collective entity or energy meets you halfway and helps you work like in real time. And it's a very loving, helpful.

entity or energy, even though it can take you through some moments that feel challenging, it feels like extremely cathartic and helpful. So that's one of the things that made me fascinating when I started hearing about some of your work. I was like, oh, this is. I wonder how much of this is similar to some of the experience that I had on ayahuasca, and I wonder just what people's experiences are like. Well, I can address that. Okay.

I co-authored a paper that was published in the Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, and the lead researcher investigated the published medical literature about a wide variety of what we call psychotropic or brain-acting drugs and looked at the descriptions of these experiences and compared it to near-death experiences. And the conclusion of this study, really radically different experiences between psychotropic drugs and near-death experiences. But above and beyond that...

Theo, for anybody listening or viewing this, you can find out for yourself. There's a website called Arrowid, E-R-O-W-I-D.org. Arrowid? Arrowid.org has thousands of first-person shared experiences with psychotropic drugs. It is... Amazing how many they have. You can look up.

Any type of psychotropic drug, you can look up ayahuasca experiences. Arrowhead, E-R-O-W-I-D, documenting the complex relationship between humans and psychoactives. Wow. They have thousands of experience. It is by far the best resource for anybody. that would like to compare near-death experiences and what happens in near-death experiences with psychotropic drugs, go there. You can look up ayahuasca. You can look up DMT. You can look up LSD.

There are literally hundreds of examples of virtually all of these psychotropic drugs. I've done that. And very quickly, you'll realize, as I have and others do that go through that exercise, that the psychotropic drug experiences. from shared by people that actually had them are, in general, radically different from what happens in a near-death experience. They're more hallucinatory. They're more often frightening. They're more often dreamlike in a sense that events can skip around.

All you have to do is read 10. ayahuasca especially 20 ayahuasca experiences from that source and read 10 or 20 near-death experiences, and it jumps out at you immediately, the contrast. And then finally, when we have our survey, people will often share when they have a near-death experience that they've also tried psychotropic drugs. And in general, they will state...

from the source, people that had both near-death experiences and psychotropic drug experiences, that the two experiences are radically different. The near-death experience is grippingly real. Psychotropic drugs are tending to be not real. That's what you'd expect with a hallucinatory experience. Damn, dude. I want to have a damn near-death experience. Oh, well, I'll tell you what.

And I want to emphasize that. I mean, a lot of people hear about the near-death experiences and go, wow, I got to go get me some of that. And I'm going to give a cautionary note to you, and I think this is important. Some people hear about near-death experiences and...

tragically, a few people will actually do something risky with their lives, you know, up to even considering suicide. And I think as I want to emphasize that people that have had near-death experiences as a result of suicide attempts... learn almost uniformly during their near-death experience that that suicide attempt was a huge mistake. virtually everyone that has a near-death experience as a result of an effort at suicide.

and then recovers, will almost never attempt suicide again. And why? Because they understand life is meaningful. Life is important. They're here for a reason, even if their life is extraordinarily difficult. And by the way, if you commit suicide and don't have a near-death experience, you're much more likely, unfortunately, to attempt suicide again at some future time.

Wow, really? Yeah. Well, also, if you're listening, you didn't commit suicide. That's a good point. No judgment to anybody that gave it a run or whatever. We're glad you're no good at it. Okay, that's good. But yeah, you didn't do it. Did people that... tried suicide, did a lot of them have near-death experiences? Well, I guess they did because they tried suicide, but that's a physical act of it. Well, that's a good question, Theo.

First of all, I want to point out that of people that have a life-threatening event, only about 10 to 20 percent of them will actually have a near-death experience.

80 or 90 percent don't so you're saying if somebody falls off a cliff somebody you know falls into like a um butter churn or something or somebody gets hacked by somebody somebody gets beaten hit by train whatever domestic dispute heavy domestic dispute and something happens to them you're saying Only a small percentage of those will have been.

within their unconsciousness then have a near-death experience. Right. Does it matter how you get into unconsciousness on whether or not you have a near-death experience? No, it doesn't make any difference what that life-threatening event was as to whether you have a near-death experience. In fact, the only... Good research study found the closer to death you are,

the more likely you are to have a near-death experience. Wow, so you've got to walk over there, huh? Yeah, it's kind of interesting. Theo actually co-authored a scholarly book chapter where we looked at all the demographics I mean you name it you know gender location what led to the near-death experience and we could find no correlation with what the life-threatening event was, what your demographic background was.

didn't really seem to predict the probability of having a near-death experience when you nearly die, nor what the content would be. So you're saying, yeah, because I would think some ethnicities, and probably like, I'm not going to, you know. But people in like Memphis or something might be more likely to have near death experiences because there's more near death going on. You know what I'm saying? Like, but you didn't find that any ethnicities or genders or anything.

or ages had none were more likely to have near-death experiences than others. Yeah, absolutely not. There was some earlier research that thought maybe children were more likely to have a near-death experience when they nearly died. But I'm not seeing that. So it seems to be, you know, interestingly, Theo, I mean, children just came from life. They just came from life. So you think like, oh, they might have maybe just they got a shorter tether.

Well, yeah, and I think so. You know, they'd be less likely to. But on the other hand, Theo, I studied very young children, age five and below. average age of this study group was three and a half years old. Now, at that very young age, when they had their near-death experience, they're practically a cultural blank slate.

They almost certainly have no formed ideas about religion, the afterlife. They almost certainly have never heard of what near-death experience is or wouldn't understand it if they had. And yet these people statistically had basically exactly the same content, the elements of near-death experience as older children and adults, which is a very strong line of evidence.

that pre-existing beliefs don't really lead to people having a near-death experience or what the content of the near-death experience is. Wow, that's fascinating. So whether it was a 90-year-old or a 7-year-old that seemed to articulate well, you found that what they shared had a lot of similarities.

Yeah, absolutely. Really? And that's exciting because it seems— Well, it gives you some proof that you're onto something that just furthers your belief. Well, it really eliminates the skeptic concern that the near-death experiences are.

Pre-existing beliefs. It's what they thought would happen. And there's absolutely. Right, because a child doesn't really have enough time to have too much of a pre-existing belief. Exactly. You wouldn't think. Exactly. Man, I've been so dehydrated from flying around. from sweating, from letting fluid out of my body. You will be dehydrated, baby. And liquid IV helps. Gosh, it'll turn water just in a...

Just into just a beautiful nectar that just fills you up. It really will. With three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients for everyday wellness. Liquid IV hydrates two times faster than water alone. All in a single sugar-free stick. I've had it. The flavors are remarkable. They got one of them. It's called white lime or something. Or what is it? Dang, white.

peach or something. God, I love that one. Rehydrate yourself in this new year. Grab your liquid IV hydration multiplier, sugar-free in bulk. nationwide at Costco or get 20% off your first order when you go to liquidiv.com and use code Theo at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop Better Hydration today using promo code Theo at liquidiv.com. The new year for many people means finding out ways to save some money. You know what I'm talking about.

Some women will start cutting their husband's hair a lot around this time of year. And they're saving money, but the husband has to look kind of bad or whatever. But after the holidays, we could all use a little cash in our pocket. is here to help ibotta is a free app that gives you the most cash back every time you shop on hundreds of items from groceries to beauty supplies to toys uh who don't want a toy

So you can make sure you're beating inflation no matter what you're purchasing. The average Ibotta user earns $145 per year. That's right. And right now, Ibotta, I-B-O-T-T-A. is offering our listeners $5 just for trying Ibotta by using code Theo when you register. Just go to the App Store or Google Play Store and download the free Ibotta app to start earning cash back and use code Theo. That's Ibotta in the Google Play or App Store and use code Theo.

One thing that I found that was really interesting that really made me lock in and want to learn more was when you said that people of different religious beliefs and things like that, they all, none of them, though. They all had the same characteristics. of their experience if they had a near-death experience. You're exactly right, Theo. I was like, wow, so there's...

Anyway, yeah, that's one of the things that really hooked me in. Yeah, and that's exactly right. In my research, we've had, well, the website, our research website has been translated into over 30 different languages.

So as a result, we can do by far the largest cross-cultural study in the world. Oh, you have to do that. Because otherwise, if you get like, yeah, you get some dude, yeah, you get some guy fresh out the barrio or something, and he's like, you know, we was dreaming, you know. You're like, hold on, bro.

Yeah, and that's what's exciting when you pull in near-death experiences literally from all around the world in their native language. So we have about 60 what we call non-Western near-death experiences. These are in countries. where they're not predominantly Judeo-Christian, and they're from just, you name the religious background, I've run into it, and remarkably, these non-Western near-death experiences, the content, what occurs, the elements.

strikingly similar to typical Western near-death experiences. And in fact, I've co-authored a scholarly paper with an Iranian near-death experience researcher, looked at a couple dozen people that had near-death experiences in Iran, exactly what I'm seeing in my series. No matter where on earth you have your near-death experience, amazingly, it doesn't make any difference, Theo, whether you're, say, a Muslim in Egypt or a Hindu in India.

or a Christian in the United States, or no religious belief at all. Wherever on the planet you have your near-death experience, whatever age, the content, what occurs, is going to be strikingly similar. Do you feel like over time, though, that you became a... what am i the term look for like you became that's what you started looking for you know i'm talking about oh um

What's the term I'm looking for? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, confirmation bias. Yeah, did you worry about that? Did you take that into account at all? Oh, absolutely. As a researcher, I have to carefully... minimize anything that would affect wrongly my interpretation. And confirmation bias is one thing, but that's the glory of having the survey and then archiving the results and then posting them all, Theo. We have over 4,000 near-death experiences posted. We have...

scores of non-Western near-death experiences. Give me one of those that was interesting that kind of really surprised you. Is there one that stands out like a non-Western? Yeah, there was a lady who was literally dying of Hodgkin lymphoma. Oh, gosh. And, you know, tragically was given basically no chance of survival. And right at death's door, she had a near-death experience.

profoundly detailed near-death experience and as part of that she became aware that if she was to choose to return to earthly life that the lab results that were just drawn would come back showing she was recovering. She was starting to respond. And if she chose not to return to her earthly life... that the lab results would indicate she was on her path to irreversible permanent death. Amazingly she recovered and when she recovered she had an amazing highly detailed

near-death experience with most of the characteristics we've talked about now. Well, see, that's interesting because that makes me think that some of the information that you get are in a near-death experience, right? And I hate that we keep having to say the term over and over again, but we have to say it. Yeah, we do. Yeah, we really do. Some of the information that you get during an experience like that.

I wonder if some of it then, because at first I'm thinking it comes from the other side. It comes from the great beyond, you know, that. But then now I'm thinking that if you're getting information where you see that you may be getting lab results coming, that would be different if you return. That makes you wonder if some of that information is somehow coming out of your body, like on this side and service and, you know.

Does that make any sense? Does it make sense or not? Yeah, it does, because you would have to say maybe you have a personal deep-down sense that this is going to happen. If that's the case, then I would be thinking that some of that near-death experience is influenced on this side of it. life as opposed to what part of me was leaning towards it being influenced on the other side of life.

Absolutely. So it's very reasonable to hypothesize that maybe something that occurs or is described in near-death experiences is just because they had that sense, that inner awareness in their physical body. But Theo, their unconscious are clinically dead when they have their near-death experiences, so they really can't gather from that sense, that memory. that subconscious part of themselves because everything is shut down when they have a near-death experience.

Are there other choices? I know you mentioned early on that there were choices that people had to make. So that one is a lady saying lab results could make her or upcoming lab results could be different. Were there other choices? I'll tell you the most poignant choice that we encountered in near-death experiences. And that is a choice to stay in that unearthly, beautiful realm, in the environment they're in, often their spirits, or the choice to return to their earthly life and struggle.

to overcome that life-threatening event that they caused the near-death experience. Oh, I see. And this is where it gets really interesting, Theo, at that moment of decision, even though people having the near-death experience, everything that they knew up to that time, friends, family, loved ones. decades of their life often, is their earthly life. And yet, what they're experiencing in this unearthly realm, overwhelming sense of peace and love,

Those are about the two most common words used. And they often describe that they feel this unearthly, beautiful realm is their real home, their true home. But the great majority of people... that are in that unearthly, heavenly realm that make a decision, they're asked to make a decision, want to stay there. They want to leave their earthly life and not come back.

And believe me, that is a difficult decision. They will often argue with the beings there. Oh, yeah. You go to Destin for the first time. You've been in Destin? Oh, yeah. So that's really interesting. I never want to live there. That's just how compelling and beautiful and...

what the sense is like in this unearthly beautiful realm that they're in of near-death experience. Wow. See, and so that makes me believe that it's not like ayahuasca because... in ayahuasca and i only compare it to that because like i've done you know some of the other psychotropics lsd and uh and uh mushrooms right and those are the only ones i've done i know there's a lot of new ones and people are you know sucking on animals or whatever and you know licking frogs or whatever

There's some stuff. I hope not a lot, Theo. I mean, I don't look. I don't look. I know a dude who's done a thing or two down there, you know, a couple of months. Well, I'll leave a taste in my mouth, but moving on.

Look, I know a guy north of Panama City. I don't know if he's ever gotten high, but he's definitely done some things. Okay, goodness gracious. But on ayahuasca, I never felt a sense of peace. It's always a sense of... learning and constant, like, not negotiating, but revealing and catharsis, but not a big...

some relief, but never, it feels very much like you're in a long period of therapy, which sometimes can be extremely intense. So it doesn't feel like you're in this, um, you know a million thread count exit you know space yeah which that sounds like what you're talking about wow yeah now now Is there a—and if—so people, if they—some people might have near-death experience, but they just die, and you're like, oh, shit, we didn't get the information.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, at a life-threatening event, you know, certainly, unfortunately, a lot of people will ultimately, permanently, and irreversibly die. So that's, you know, that's it. However, that brings up an interesting point. we do have a small series of what we call shared near-death experience. These are two or more people that simultaneously had a life-threatening event. No! And true story. We've got...

we're up to about 20 posted on the website. So it's not a real small series. So what happens, I mean, you name it, auto accidents, collapsing building, you know, some kind of accident out in nature. These are all... common precipitating events. So two or more people, boom, they're in that life-threatening event. In a shared near-death experience, they can interact with each other. They can be aware of their physical body down below.

In these shared near-death experiences, at least in the series I have, One goes on to permanently, irreversibly die. The other returns back to their body, and then when they recover, they can talk about a shared near-death experience. Now, Theo, that is some of the strongest evidence I can conceive of. that for those permanently irreversibly dying, what you observe in a near-death experience is that initial pathway.

But you're saying one of them died and one of them didn't? But if one of them died, then how do you know that that person had the experience too? Because the other person shared an experience with them. They talked, they interacted. Oh, so the one that lived said that they both had an out-of-body experience. For example, we had from Canada, we had a...

Bad car accident, and a gentleman was driving with his fiancée. Boom, car fell asleep and hit a tree. Both him and his fiancée had that out-of-body experience, holding hands. I mean, they were fiancées. Oh, yes, sweet. Rose up and then... They were able to see this unearthly beautiful realm in the distance. There were four beings that came up to them. Two of them went to her, two of them went to him, and they separated their holding hands.

They felt so much peace and love, they described. He wanted to say... No, but felt so compelling, compellingly. That's why it was remarkable that he felt so much peace and love that he didn't want to resist it. And so he watched the two beings carry his fiancée toward this beautiful unearthly realm in the distance.

The other two beings gently lowered him back down to the car from way above the car. He saw the front end on fire, and then he went back into his body, and he felt that when he returned to consciousness, his fiance leaning on his shoulder as she was when he had the accident and he knew immediately fiance was dead she was an empty shell and that he had left her with those beings above that's a shared

near-death experience. Very dramatic. Shared near-death experiences are... So that's unbelievable. I mean, out of 4,000, you know, to have maybe about 20, that's how rare they are. And yet they're so dramatic. in terms of providing evidence that for those that permanently, irreversibly die, their consciousness continues to live and will eventually be reunited. See, that's so why the fact that two people had it. Now, was there ever two people that had it and both of them live?

There have been, not in my series, there has been a report. of firefighters. They were called the Hot Shots in Arizona and they were battling a fire and the fire changed direction and wind changed direction and trapped them. There were many of the firefighters that died, and certainly all of them had a life-threatening event, and they were aware of each other and then ultimately came back to report that remarkable shared near-death experiences where several lived and several died.

Oh, man. How's that for food for thought? Those just blow me away. I mean, I tell you, even after 4,000 near-death experiences, when I read these shared near-death experiences... I'm still in awe even after 25 years. Can you tell when some are fake? we are very careful to investigate whether they're fake. Theo, we ask many of our survey questions in a similar concept we're asking, but worded differently in different sections of the survey. So as a result, we use that tried and trued method.

to make sure that the near-death experience responses are valid. Above and beyond that, as a doctor, I can certainly spot things that don't add up medically. But finally, if the overwhelming majority of people share true and honest near-death experiences, even those people that share falsified near-death experiences, If they're that rare, it isn't really going to change our overall understanding of what happens during a near-death experience and what their meaning is.

What are some things that people do if they're telling a fake near-death experience where you can kind of spot those? Because there's got to be commonalities there, too, I'm sure. Well, first of all, when we do our survey, we always post it anonymously. They don't get paid anything. They literally have no public recognition.

Because there's no real clout. No incentive. No incentive at all right for them. No clout at all. No direction for them to share a falsified account. Yeah, no coughing clout or whatever they call it. It would take probably most people, especially with a detailed account. over an hour to fill that out. And so people generally aren't going to do that just for laughs. So I think in general, and certainly what we're observing in our near-death experience accounts are...

strikingly similar to what all other researchers are finding in their research series. So I'm reasonably confident that these great, great majority, if not virtually all, are legitimate. Is it more women that fill them out than men? Because women, I think, low-key want to die all the time, I feel like. Well done.

Or because they love dateline, you know what I'm saying? They're always like, oh, you know, they're always leaving a window open. That's a great question. It's probably pretty close to 50-50, but I'll tell you why. I think... Theo, guys like us are just a little more inclined than women to drive the car fast, to go do risky things, you know, swim.

places we shouldn't swim. We've all been, I mean, it's a guy thing. So we may be a little more predisposed to have fun in some risky way. Women, I think, are a little less inclined to do that. So I think that may help explain. why it's about 50-50. Right, because you have more men that are actually getting doing...

getting close with death and accidents, but you have more women who may share stories like that. Yeah, they're more inclined to share women, childbirth, and, you know, severe complications. clinical death during childbirth, we have a huge number of those type of near-death experiences. Have you ever had a woman that had a child and then the child, I guess the child wouldn't be able to recollect something like that?

No, we don't have any, if a lady had a near-death experience, there's no, you know, obviously they are very good at delivering the baby, even if she has a life-threatening event. But there's no real discussion later from that child of, oh, I had a shared near-death experience. Like years later that it would be too hard to remember. What motivates you to care about this?

I am fascinated by near-death experiences, even after 25 years and 4,000 near-death experiences. You ever been in a bush garden? Yeah, I have. Oh, yeah. That's awesome, too. That's true. And I love all that kind of stuff. It's fun. Well, near-death experiences, to me, it continues to remind me that there's an afterlife, a wonderful afterlife, and that's for all of us.

I'm a physician that treats patients with cancer. These are my patients that have life-threatening events, and I'm involved with them every day. What I know about near-death experience has helped me to... help them in their journey with their battle with cancer in a way with more courage, more confidence, that even if we ultimately... that in the end, they're going to have a wonderful afterlife. And as I've told them, you're going to be in a much better place than those left on our earthly life.

I think that's really certainly something to look forward to. I believe that too. Because even just living is so, like, that's what I always say when people are like, I don't believe in an afterlife. I'm like... all right. You know, like, first of all, what? Okay, you know, because here's why. My biggest proof is that we lived at all. At least believe in reincarnation because we already live.

Yeah. Then don't even believe you're here then if you're not even going to believe it's possible. That's ridiculous. Like I'm doing this right now. You're going to tell me. And I came out of nothing. I don't know where I was. You know, I got some vague ideas and, you know, I'll sketch some stuff every now and then, but I don't have any real information. But to think this couldn't happen again to me seems asinine. Because you have proof, like you're living in proof.

Like it'd be different if you weren't, but you're freaking living in proof that you, that existence from nothing. It is possible. Now, I know you came from people when you came from sex, but they eventually, we don't know where they came from. We don't know where life came from. That's the thing. Sure. No, and absolutely. Sorry to yell at you or anything. No, this is great. Hey, Theo, this is what I find.

among other things, very inspiring about near-death experiences. I mean, here over and over is very powerful evidence that We do have a life after death. Our consciousness goes on. We're not really going both for us, our friends, our family, our loved ones. When we have that final end of our earthly physical life, there's a much bigger picture, a much bigger continuation of consciousness.

eternal and infinite, as best I can tell, from near-death experiences. And that's exciting. I mean, whenever earthly life gets... miserable, difficult. We've all been there, all of us. And you always have that That thought in the back of your mind from near-death experience is, wow, here is the evidence, powerful evidence, that we go on. And it makes me think like...

You know, we used to – bring it back up, that Arrowid site. Was that at Arrowid? Yeah, E-R-O-W-I-D.org. E-R-O-W-I-D. So if you'll zoom in on here, the vaults of Arrowid, and this was the site you were talking about where people share their experiences. psychedelic techniques and methods. Psychotropic drugs. Psychotropic drugs. And it also says on here there's breathing, dreaming, drumming, fasting. So it seems like there's a lot of different modalities people use.

Now, maybe all these are while they're under the influence of psychedelic drugs? No, you know, these are obviously different ways in which an altered consciousness can be achieved. And that's what's so cool about this site. I mean, here... are the original first-person accounts. A lot like my own nderf.org website, where they're posted typically anonymously. There's no real incentive for them to make any of this up. These are people that just want to share with the world.

what happened during their experiences. Often they're going to select out their most dramatic, interesting experiences, but it is a treasure trove. of altered states of consciousness. Yeah, I love this. And so some of these on here are some where it seems like it's not just drug-induced. So psychotropic, that means drugs, right? Right, yes. Okay, so some of these, it has breathing, dancing, dreaming, drumming, fasting, meditation, prayer.

martial arts, yoga, just as different modalities. So I've used half of those breathing. I worked with a comedian, this girl, Blair Sochi, and she does breath work. And I had an experience there that was. very uh it wasn't like a near-death experience but it was beyond something i'd ever had before where my it locked up all of my muscles and i was just with my um some like way my conscience was you know and that and it took a I remember just tears coming out of me like it was like

uh a cleansing of some sort um martial arts i've done mma where at the end of the class you just sat there and just like start crying because you've done so much like just different ways your muscles and releasing things and stuff and it um And I think a long time ago, they used to do a lot of sweating, a lot of meditation, you know, historically. That's kind of what I was getting at was like, I wonder if there was more connection with the afterlife in previous.

centuries and ages of time because they used, uh, less technological modalities and more like actual physical practicing of things you know even if you go look at like the Egyptians they would draw and bury their dead, sometimes with tombs, sometimes with tunnels that they said would lead to another little tomb that just had gifts of the afterlife. It feels like they had a much more spiritual connection maybe with... With here and something beyond because they.

I mean, to build a tomb and bury somebody with all your worldly goods that you have, to take all your money and bury it with a friend so that they can use it in the next realm. A lot of that's really fascinating because we don't practice a lot of that anymore. Now somebody will slip you a perk or slip you a thing of cigarettes or something on the way. Okay. I'm so glad you brought that up, Theo. Does it make any sense what I'm saying? Oh, absolutely. And in fact, I'll take that and run with it.

Near-death experiences, as dramatic as they are and as much as they point to that afterlife, they're really a subset of that bigger picture, just like what you were talking about. The umbrella is spiritual experiences in general. You know, absolutely, you can have that type of spiritual experience with martial arts. I was a brown belt in karate. I get that. I've walked a mile in those. I can't say shoes because we're barefoot. But on top of that, you can have certainly meditation experiences.

can produce some dramatic experiences. The scholarly literature describes these as mystical experiences, and there's a whole wealth of literature out there about people that can have very dramatic experiences. Sometimes they even reproduce many of the characteristics of near-death experiences, and yet they're all part of that, if you will, the umbrella, that bigger picture.

all converging with evidence on the fact that there's consciousness far beyond what we're aware of in our earthly life, that there's an afterlife, that our consciousness is much more than just... What we think with, how we interact with other people, our conscious earthly everyday experience, that's just a subset of a much bigger picture of consciousness, just like what you were saying. Yeah, all of those things seem to touch. Yeah, they seem to find ways.

I don't know. I just feel like historically we probably, even though now we're able to catalog things better, I mean, back then you had to draw it on a cave wall or you had to whisper to your buddy. you know and if he gets damn you know yeah you know he comes across a rare std on a mountaintop and it's you know nobody knows what what happened And it's so it's like, you know, just different times or, you know, it just now we can catalog more. I feel like, but the connect, the experience.

We have is kind of we have less experiences, maybe. I don't know. I just it seems like our forefathers, they. This was like a Saturday night. They'd get together in a sweat lodge. And they wanted to see something, you know, but it was you had to, you know, make your own Netflix in your brain. Yeah, you know, I think you're right. I think you're really on to something there. Here's my take on it. I think.

Years ago, centuries ago, I think there was probably more openness to these types of experiences. I think there was more when we didn't have that sort of scientific rigidity about what the brain can do and what it can't do. I think people collectively were more inclined to share these stories.

to have people believe them, to value them, and as a result of that, allow them to be shared in a verbal tradition, probably much more so than we have today, because people were probably less afraid to share that. These were more tight-knit communities. I mean, they knew each other. They interacted with each other. And so I think there was more trust.

that we have today. Today we're sort of apart from each other more. I think it's harder to develop that interpersonal trust perhaps as much as existed centuries ago. That's a shame among many other reasons. People today may be less inclined to share with others their spiritual experiences because they're afraid they'll be judged. Yeah. I want to let you know that the best way to learn a language is Immersion, that's right. Living where the language is spoken and using it every day.

But if that's not in the cards this year, you can still learn a language the second best way, and that's with Babbel. that's what i like to use don't pay hundreds of dollars for private tutors or waste hours on apps that don't really help you speak the language Babbel's quick 10-minute lessons are designed by over 150 language experts to help you start speaking a new language in as little as three weeks. And here's a special limited time deal for our listeners.

Right now, get 55% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners, at Babbel, B-A-B-B-E-L.com slash Theo. Get 55% off at Babbel.com slash Theo. Spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash T-H-E-O. Rules and restrictions may apply. And best of luck in learning your new language. And that's really, really exciting. Yeah. Or there's not as there's well, it's interesting because there's.

It used to be, I mean, sometimes you would be the chief of a village if you had gotten to connect with the third eye. There was a lot of enhancement. Yeah, there seemed to be a lot more of a social value to it. I think we're still going through this metamorphosis maybe where, you know, we tried a lot of medicines to cure people like a lot of Western medicine that is proven to be or slowly more and more proving to be very much.

Not as helpful as we thought. Causing more addiction than it is probably benefits overall, maybe. And I'm saying that to a doctor. Maybe I shouldn't be. But but that we're getting more to where people are. I feel like we're trying to get back to nature and to finding ways to a take care of ourselves better and then be. use other modalities to solve particularly things that we

struggle with thinking and feeling-wise than medicine. Does that make any sense or not? Oh, I think I see where you're going with that, Theo. Now more than ever, we start with a focus on the patient. What's best for the patient? Well, prevention, certainly. Treatments that have less toxicity, very strong focus in my specialty, radiation oncology, where we treat cancer. We're more interested in the totality of the patient.

How are these treatments affecting them? How can we mitigate these adverse effects? sort of consider the patient totally, mentally, physically, spiritually, and help be everything that we can as healthcare providers in a way that we perhaps hadn't even thought about before. So there's a real, it's kind of interesting. We're really kind of at a threshold now.

Where with a focus like that, I think we're, I know we're curing more people, especially with cancer, my specialty, than we ever did before. But I think importantly... We're helping people to live better than ever before because we're so focused on the total patient. Have there been experiences where you've been able to discuss with cancer patients who...

weren't fortunate enough to get into remission, that you felt like talking about the afterlife and possibilities and people's experiences have been helpful to them? Oh, absolutely. Of course, I'm a well-known near-death experience researcher, so over and over we have patients or their family members.

Google, who is this Dr. Long guy? And oh my gosh, you know, here's my hundreds of times I've talked to the media and been around. And for people that are aware of that, they will generally come talk with me about that next time they see me. That can be... profoundly inspirational to somebody who's got a life-threatening illness. They're in fear about that. their family, their loved ones, they know they might not make it. And yet here is the research, the information I have.

powerful evidence that there is life after death, that there's a bigger picture for who we are, what we are, that we're not just physical brain function, that we are a consciousness that's going to survive our earthly death. It is incredibly... important to patients that come to that understanding. I've spent huge amounts of time talking about that with patients and I love that. I consider that to be

a very special and important part of how I practice medicine, going in that extra dimension like that. Yeah. Well, it's just... For one, it's a blessing that you care about this because you're also in a field where people are walking. are having to deal with death, you know, sooner maybe than they expected. Do you ever, have you ever been there when somebody was passing away and just kind of like. Been like, hey, come on back, you know? Well, yeah, I mean, I've done CPR for real a few times.

You know, I'll tell you what. Look around while you're down there. The first thing they say in the books is when you have someone codes, their heart stops, and you have to try to bring them back from the brink. Check your own pulse first, too, because you're, ah, that's pretty eerie. Because you can freak out?

Oh, it's spooky. I mean, your heart rate, I mean, it's spreading. When you have to do CPR? Well, when I do it for real, yeah. Oh, yeah. When we brought people, I mean, this is literally unexpected, typically. It's life and death. You know, we're frantically trying to do the best we can. I'd be worried. Like, say, if there's house music playing in the place, I would be worried. I would just, what if you just tap into it? You're like, what is going on, dude? Oh, come on. No, you.

Blake track on somebody, you know, like at least, I mean, I can't speak for others, but I'll tell you when I've done CPR, you stay focused and you want to make sure you're doing just the right number of chest compressions. I'm just saying you get some guy like me in there and it's just. You know, get out the way for Cotton Eye, Joe. You know what I'm saying? You'd make an awesome doctor. I love that Theo. We need to get, because that would be.

I haven't heard a doctor ever share that, but hey, you know, that's... I think I would be disbarred immediately. I'm just saying that if you're not really locked in on what you're doing, if you're doing CPR on somebody and somebody just lays some kind of a track in the distance, anything can happen. Have you ever had a near-death experience?

no i haven't thank goodness so now have you is there a part of you that because at some point you gotta you know put your muffins where the oven is you know what i'm saying bro like that Okay. People were going to, you know what I'm saying? If you want to write the third book, you got to have to go over there. But let me tell you how it works in the real world here, Theo. People that have had a near-death experience.

in general, typically, are not near-death experience researchers. And I think the reason for that is they know about near-death experience. It is grippingly real. They understand it. They understand its implications in their life. And so as a result of that, they're not asking questions like me and so many other people that do research in this area that want to know, is it real?

What happens? So again, a near-death experience cures any near-death experience disbelief. That's for sure. Does part of you ever wish, like, you know, and it's not, nobody wants to, because near-death experience, you got to, death is in the middle of it. that's the tricky part of the rest of you can handle but death is the part you got to risk you know but is any part of you ever like you know

Where like, oh, say you've ever been skiing and then you fall and you're like, oh, this could be it. Let's see what happens here. Yeah. I'll tell you, I have so many irons in the fire in my life. I've got a full-time medical practice. I love doing research and sharing about near-death experience. I've got so much going on. I'm very careful not to get into a life threat.

event. I mean, I get what you're coming from. Sure. At one level, it'd be, I think, an adjunct to my research to say, this is what I experienced and here's what happened. But don't you think that might lead to— You get a little confirmation bias. I agree. And then I'd start to see—

other near-death experiences through the filter of my own experience. Yeah, dude, I can't believe earlier I was like, don't you think there's a lot of confirmation bias? And then I just try to talk you into confirmation bias. Well, again, when I... start my near-death experience research. My scientist's coat goes on. I have to be very careful to use the best scientific methods.

and avoid those kind of pitfalls that are common in science. You're still science. So you're still applying science to this. Right, absolutely. And I think that's one thing that makes it more valid. We had a guy, Dr. Max Moron. Do you know who this guy is? I've heard the name. I just can't place it. He is a – he does the – he runs the – Oh, the cryogenics? Oh, yeah. He's like a philosopher. He's like a futurist. He's a director of... He was the CEO...

And a president of Alcor Life Extension. And that's where they do like cryonics and cryogenics where they freeze people, right? So I we talked with him one time and I. Some people are like, oh, this whole thing's a scam, right? And I looked at the financials of it. It wouldn't really be worth it, I don't think, if it were a scam. It's just not that much money. It doesn't seem like in it. But it does seem like it's just kind of there's...

There's just sort of this blind hope that one day they will be able to like reincarnate. or no, to rehabilitate the physical us that's here, right? What are your thoughts on that? Because it's not really the same world that you're in, but there's this. The afterlife is part of it. You don't hear much about the afterlife. Right. Well, you know, Theo, as a researcher and a scientist and as a physician,

I'm interested in pretty much any aspects of possible survival of consciousness. And here we have groups that are freezing bodies, cryogenics, hoping that people will be able to be resuscitated. decades, centuries from now, and literally be brought back to life. Well, a couple thoughts on that. First of all, I can't get over scientifically the fact that when you freeze...

cells, human cells, below 32 degrees, the water in the cells expands. Boom, it busts the cell membranes and the cells are literally dead. How you can bring back completely... busted, trashed, if you will, cells in an entire living organism back to life is absolutely outside. I know they're using in liquid nitrogen to do it right or something. Yeah, no, that's cold. So that would be...

And I think they do it at a quick enough level where they're saying that that doesn't happen, that decomposition doesn't happen. That's what their claimant is. the ability to suddenly freeze an entire physical organism. Like flash freezing or whatever. And again, I'm not an authority on that. That kind of doesn't pass my sniff test. But I think, moreover, the bigger picture here is people... so afraid of leaving their earthly life, so believing that

earthly life is all that they are and all that they can be. I think if they knew what the overwhelming consistent messages and near-death experiences that our physical life isn't who we really are. It isn't the end, that what we are, who we are, is that eternal, infinite consciousness that goes on living after our physical death here on earth.

Tell me about some of that. So, yeah, that's an area we haven't really gotten into. What are people saying? Because these are people that they came back, right? So they didn't go, you know. they either didn't get accepted or whatever right now. We're not judging them. You know, there's tons of applications, right? All right. You know, the afterlife gets countless applications every day. These are interviewees who it feels like God over there. And that's funny. I mean...

There's actually been a study that someone went through. literally over a thousand of our near-death experiences. And when people are over you guys, did you mean? Yeah, are the ones we have posted. When I say we've studied over 4,000 near-death experiences, those are posted. Are all the ones you get posted or not all of them? Every single one that gives us permission, which is way over 95%, is posted.

but man, you don't have any, there's no like, let's make sure, let's have, there's no protocol for you guys to like, Be like, come on, this one isn't, you know, this one has Joaquin Phoenix in it, you know, like this one isn't it. I have, the integrity of the research I do requires. that no matter what the content of the near-death experience, if it appears to have occurred during a life-threatening event, sometimes I'll, unless it's blatantly falsified, I mean, hey, Theo.

We got two near-death experiences in a row where they encountered Pamela Anderson and there's obviously some teenage, probably boys, they were having a good old time and boom, boom. Okay. I get that. That's fake. And that's rare, thank goodness, because, again, it just takes too long to do that. But I have a whole write-up on how we very carefully validate these near-death experiences as real. I understand. we have a responsibility to the world to make sure that we have posted.

valid experiences because other researchers are using this. Interestingly, artificial intelligence has gone through the internet and that's one of the major drivers of artificial intelligence understanding of near-death experience is the over 4,000 we have posted. Right, so you guys have so many of them that obviously people are using it. But yeah, I was just trying to get if there's any barrier to entry between your site. So there is some, if there's some...

If people are saying Pam Landerson or Samuel L. Jackson or whatever, you're like, I don't know. But, yeah, so the integrity of the research we do is such that— There's some integrity. There's a lot of integrity, but there's some barrier to entry. Well, not really. I mean, this is less than 1% of people that have shared.

what we consider to be obviously falsified experiences. So it's, I mean, it's rare with that order. But you take some down that are obviously falsified. Well, it's not, we will, and sometimes we learn, we will post it, and then subsequently... And again, these are usually people that have a commercial interest in their account.

And as time goes on, we may come to understand that they falsified, embellished their account. Right, losing you guys as some sort of... Absolutely, and they're out of there if that happens. So again, that's rare. And that says a lot about the... integrity of humans in general. I mean, people...

that have a near-death experience that is, in general, the most amazing, influential experience of their life. So let's talk about that then. It's literally sacred to them, yeah. Okay, so that's interesting. So people say it's sacred to them, you know? What are some of the things? If people go there, they're on death's doorstep and they get to come back. Nobody was home. They knocked. They got some information maybe. But what is some of the things that they...

Have you learned anything about the afterlife, I guess, or that next step? Have you learned anything about that, or do you feel like you've learned anything? Absolutely. I am extremely interested in that. After years of doing research and being aware that they were remarkably consistently describing unearthly, heavenly realms, obviously as a researcher, I'm dang interested in that.

So in our most recent version of the survey, we've got a lot of questions where I try to drill down on that, try to understand more. about that remarkably consistent perspective on what lies beyond death's door. And that's where, Theo, it gets dang interesting. One thing where, okay, talk interesting here, so what's it like? Okay, you know, first of all... You have to understand it's radically different from that physical, earthly-like that we know. It's nothing.

like a separate geographically independent... Yeah, we only have five senses, dude. Yeah, oh yeah. You know how many senses you get probably when you're done here? Well, you know, there's... At least 12 senses, I bet. Okay. Think about all the other senses you could have. The more the merrier, I know, but... Regarding what I'm consistently seeing based on survey questions and spontaneous...

The afterlife, again, completely non-physical. Motion's non-physical, communication. They typically have a greatly accelerated consciousness. They often have... what they call universal knowledge. It's a sense of knowing everything. bigger picture of knowledge far more than they could have known in their earthly life. Now, see, some of that really makes me sound a little bit like a...

You know, I did a little bit of DMT with this guy from a smoothie shop, right? Okay. You know, and that's, it was in, I think it was Maui, basically. Yeah, and I mean, hell, it might have been their damn... You know, I think the guys on their pamphlet or whatever, you look at the Maui, you know, he's yeah. Anyway, so but I remember thinking that all of my feelings were so limited. Yes, my concept of existence that I had here on earth was...

kindergarten compared to what else there was. Anyway, when you said that, that's just all, you know, I remember that. And that's fascinating. I'm glad you shared that. different ways you can come to understand that what we know, all the knowledge we have here on earth, incredibly small compared to that bigger picture than if you call universal knowledge. In fact, near-death experiencers become aware of basically they'll describe as

understanding the universe, how it all fits together, how it's connected. That drove me nuts when my early years of research, I kept saying... We'll share something, bring back something we can use in our earthly life. And I'll check you right here because this reminded me. It's not that you get the knowledge, that the knowledge is like read to you as if you read it on a page and then you know the fact.

It's that the knowledge is suddenly in you. That's what it feels like. You've got it. Bingo. I just realized that. I'm all, yeah. It's like, it's not like you can, you don't just. you're like it's not like everything's revealed to you really it's just revealed in the sense that suddenly you know it or that the revelation of it didn't even matter.

And then I can't even explain it again. But exactly. You're going right down the path that I've heard from so many near-death experiencers. I love it. What they will become aware of is it's funny. They often say it's so simple. It's so easy. Well, gosh, not to those of us on earth, but you know what's interesting? After years of studying these accounts and wondering why they didn't bring back something that we can use,

One near-death experiencer taught me and said, hey, it's like an ocean of knowledge he was aware of, and that can't fit into the teacup of our human brain. And then I went, oh, I get it. That's how limited we are in our earthly physical life. Right. I've thought about that before, too, that I wonder if we just don't have the means as limited as we are.

Yes. Absolutely. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just, we're doing a great job. We do a ton of, you know, seeking and wondering, but even our ability to wonder. is not infantile because here we are discussing it, but it's... It's not able to know. Exactly. To be known. Yeah. And it's probably good that it isn't because we would really wilt, I think, if we almost knew. And I think that's true. I'll tell you the awareness of this universal knowledge that's out there that we don't know.

One thing that that has led me to consider in my research is, Theo, that's just dang humble. I'm a doctor. I'm a smart guy. I blew through pre-med my work in three years. So I thought I was pretty good aware of this incredible knowledge that is far beyond anything I or anybody on Earth could understand is really, really humbling about how little we really know in the big picture of things. And it's kind of nice if you can embrace that. It takes the edge off.

Well, it tells there's a lot that we all need to learn. And that kind of continues the scientist in me saying, okay, we're still... We haven't got all of knowledge figured out. There's just a vast universe out there just waiting to be understood and discovered.

And that's exciting. But will we ever get it? And maybe we will. And some of it is even us thinking about this together and having conversations like this. And comparing somebody who's done a lot of research with people who... weren't under the influence of drugs unless you consider like somebody being you know falling off a cliff a drug or whatever being in a car accident but um and then somebody who's only had kind of unique experiences through drugs you know um

And realizing that there's some similarities and some like that are totally different. What are some things that people talked about the afterlife? The one thing you said that was interesting was being able to make a decision maybe to come or to go. So there's some like. It's almost like, do you want to stay? Do you want to try this new thing? You know, that's interesting. You know, it's interesting. What's interesting, Theo, is that.

When they're in that realm, when they're in that beautiful, unearthly realm, feeling love and peace beyond anything new on their earthly life, that's not unfamiliar. They often say, This is a strong sense of their real home and not their earthly life, and that's one reason they want to stay there.

They know their friends, family, and loved ones that they leave behind are going to be okay, that they too will be in that realm when their time comes. It's that feeling you get, too, when you hug somebody that you love, I think.

I like that. I like that a lot. Exactly. That feeling, it's almost, it's not even about them. You're happy that it's them, you know? Yeah. But it's really not even, there's a little bit of sometimes in a moment and a hug where it's not even about them, it's just about this, like... other little space that gets created kind of that just feels uh

Absolutely welcoming. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I love talking about love. So we'll focus on that. But yeah, when you've got a hug and you've got that intense sense of love. you can understand in personal experience the words in the dictionary, that it's like a connection, like a unity. And you often can feel that. And because the love described in near-death experience is one of the most common words, you see that in the afterlife described in near-death experiences.

One of the most consistent themes, amazingly, is they do feel that, and they use a stronger word, the connection, much more commonly. saying it's a unity, it's a oneness of us and of everyone. It's sort of like the super, if you will, ultra love is what our destiny is going to be in the afterlife. Oh, yeah. That 70s love, baby. You know? Because the 2020s loves a little, you know, it's definitely, it's got, it's been, I think it's been cut.

Probably baby powder, I'm guessing. But I think it's definitely different. But that 70s stuff, that was some pure love, it seemed like, back then. Oh, dude, one thing that stood out in your book, I remember reading that... That blind people had similar near-death experiences to people of sight. That is a very good point, Theo.

I interviewed Vicki. Vicki was born totally blind. Oh, wow. She's really all in. Oh, to Vicki, vision was unknown and unknowable. I interviewed her, and, you know, you simply cannot explain vision, how we see. In terms of the remaining other four senses, it's impossible. That would be a great game show, like a Japanese game show, you know? That would be interesting. We had a beautiful young blind lady. Will you bring her up?

We had a blind woman that came on here and we learned about being blind. Oh, fascinating. It was really, really interesting. Oh, that's great. I interviewed Vicki. Vicki, she was... very good at singing. She was a professional singer. So she was singing in a bar one evening, which is what she did, and was involved in a terrible auto accident. And I'm going to jump in on what you and many others are thinking. Wait a minute, she's blind.

No, she wasn't driving. She had an inebriated patron driving, which was not a good idea. And also, if you're drunk and the last person you need to help you get home is a blind person. Yeah, she was probably not real helpful with navigating down the road. Well, yeah, it's just like, and let them be, dude. They're doing their own thing. You're a drunk driver. Yeah, very sad. At least, you know, take somebody that can see.

Yeah, well... Sorry, whatever. Nah, well, you know, that just shows, you know, exactly the problem of drunk driving because...

Yeah, well, of course, yeah. It's like, yeah. And you're like, oh, I'm so drunk. At least if we get in an accident, this person won't even see what happened, you know? So they can't lie to the cops, too. Yeah, there you go. For you. You know, that's the shit that guy was probably thinking. Probably. Well, anyway, so... taken to the emergency room and the first time in her life that she had vision she was in what we've talked about that out-of-body experience consciousness over her body

And it's interesting to understand her first emotional reaction of suddenly having vision, which was unknown and unknown to her. She was actually frightened. Because the sense of vision was so unfamiliar, she was initially horrified. What is this new sensation? And she had to actually calm down and then finally correlated. She didn't even know who that was down on the gurney below, but it was only after Vicki correlated the feel of her long hair. Man, I can't do that well.

because I don't have long hair, but Vicki did. You can edit some in if you need it. She correlated a feel of her long hair, an interesting ring that her father had given her she only knew by the sense of feel, and now she was seeing it. from up above in an out-of-body experience so when she calmed down

She then had a tunnel experience, had a review of her life, that life review, and went on into those unearthly heavenly realms. Beautiful, highly detailed, and highly visual near-death experience, but with a twist. Theo, her vision, as she was explaining it to me, was what we hear from many people that have near-death experience. is so-called 360-degree vision. Amazingly, she's simultaneously understanding vision in front of her, behind her right, left, up, down.

the proper term would actually be like spherical. And that was the vision she knew. So when I told Vicki that those of us in our earthly life have these pie-shaped visual fields because of where our eyes are in the skull. Vicki laughed at me. She said that just can't be. She didn't get it, couldn't grasp it, because her whole life experience with vision was that spherical vision.

wow that's so fascinating and then she came back here and didn't have any more vision she yeah so when she returned to her earthly body Vicki was back to being totally blind. And I mean, this is pure blindness, no sense of light, no partial vision at all. I mean, this is like to her. vision unknown and unknowable interestingly and i asked her did you see colors

Well, how could she answer that? She had no life experience of knowing what color is. But she knew she'd seen. So it almost makes you believe that there's just a one sense then. It's a holistic sense. So then I wonder why we get stuck here in these. these entities that only have five senses then. We almost feel like a split end of, you ever seen like a split end of hair? Like, you know, like when we get they split ends hairs or something.

And her hair, it looks like it's been doing drugs. Her hair's rattled, you know? It's not been doing that well. We've all been there. Yeah. And so... that's how I feel. So I'm like a human where this erratic, or if you see a live wire on the ground and it's just, it's not connected, but it's like, you know, just.

That's how I feel like humanity is, where this split end of existence that's frayed kind of from what it seems like even nature. Nature, even though it's violent and it's beautiful, it's everything at the same time. It's decaying. It's birthing. It's like this. It's constantly... occurring, right? And we sometimes feel like this weird thing that's able to stick our head out of nature and just look around.

right we don't know what we're really grasping we're trying our best some of us are you know wearing driving gloves and thinking we're neat but most of us are just like fucking dude we don't know what's going on here Anyway, I don't know if that makes any sense, but... Yeah, I think it shows, like, you know, here we're so used to our five earthly senses, and yet in so many ways they're limited. I mean, you hear these accounts, like Vicki, and you go, wow.

our senses in the afterlife are going to be much, much more than we possibly knew here. I mean, it's just really breathtaking to think about how consciousness functions. We're not limited by who we are, what we are in our earthly life. I mean, we're stuck with our vision, our hearing.

sensation, you know, we got five senses and that's it, you know, at least for most of us. Yeah, and there's some pretty door-to-door senses. They're nothing real, you know. They seem like kind of over-the-counter senses or under-the-counter. Which one's the...

Which one you got to get a prescription for? Yeah, I like their kind of – they can be marginal. I mean, medically, we see people that have impairment in their senses, and that's very, very sad. But which one do you have to get drugs for? Which one do you have to get a prescription for, over-the-counter or under-the-counter? Oh, over-the-counter. Oh, yeah, so these are just under-the-counter senses. These are just, like, basic, you know, like...

your regular shelved senses, you know, on-the-shelf senses. Yeah, nothing special. It doesn't feel like anything special yet. And yet, you know, it's all we got to live on. Well, shoot, I guess one way of looking at it, Theo, it's kept us alive for all of our lives. I'm grateful for him. But I think when we start to look at Vicky's sense, even a blind person coming back and saying, look, dude.

you guys can have your vision or whatever bs you do whatever two-dimensional bs you guys are looking around and stuff that's fine just knowing on that next level that you get all the uh you know you get like uh all the all the you get everything that they have. Exactly. I mean, we're not limited. You know what I think too sometimes, Dr. Long, is like, I used to have this theory that like, um...

Four-legged animals, right? They complete a circuit, right? Because they're on the earth, right? There's four legs, they complete a circuit. And then us, somehow we ended up... We're two-legged. So we kind of have these loose ends all the time. And I feel like we're just this uncompleted circuit sometimes. And that's sometimes how I think why we...

that's something that happened to us. We're, we're maybe supposed to be more four legged. Cause you look at some two legged animals, kangaroos, I think are two legged in there. They're obtuse, brother. They're bouncing. They're fighting. They have children on them. They're just like us, really. They're like us at Disney World. I like that. So that was a theory I had like a year ago or something that popped into my head. I was like, why do we not fit sometimes with nature?

at ease, you know. You know, that's an interesting point because, you know, so much of nature is that four-legged and it's fairly consistent. in terms of how animals go around. We're the anomaly. Right, that's the thing. We're the anomaly. We're not the norm. Right, so why did we end up the anomaly? But then you start thinking, well, is there a higher power that wants us to be the anomaly, that's taken us from this four-legged and stood us up?

to have some enlightenment, which I also think is very, to me, feels very... warm and wanting. And it could be a mix of the two. I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. What have you garnered from speaking with people who have been close to the afterlife?

Oh, that's where my research gets amazingly interesting. What I'm seeing is, well, Theo, it's a basic scientific principle that what's real is consistently observed. And that's where it's exciting when you look at the afterlife in near-death experience. Because what's described now times thousands is so amazingly consistent. I mean, it's a beautiful unearthly realm, that strong sense of peace and love, but off the scale beyond anything they knew in their earthly life.

the encounters with deceased loved ones, interactions. By the way, deceased pets are often described in near-death experiences. And these are, again, joyous. For animal lovers out there, tremendously good news from near-death experiences. I mean, hey, Theo, you name it, dogs, cats. Birds. Horses. I've seen. Not rats. We're going to be pets. Well, I mean.

I haven't heard that, but, you know, certainly pets are not, it's not at all unusual. And like other deceased humans that they knew, these are joyous reunions. you know, sort of back to that sharing like they did on earth, only here they are in the afterlife. So do they see that they see these people in the afterlife? What do people say? They physically see their father or cousin or grandparent or something? They see them in the way that they saw them on earth?

Is there any information about that? Oh, a lot. How do people see people when they have a near-death experience? former humans that they knew on Earth that are now gone, how do they see them in the NDEs? they're essentially always picture-perfect health. Even if they died of an advanced age or a disfiguring, debilitating accident or injury, when they're encountered in the afterlife, they're essentially always...

Absolutely picture-perfect health. Interestingly, if someone died in an extremely advanced age, they may appear even decades younger. And if they died in very early childhood, amazingly, they may appear in older childhood. Oh, really? And so it seems to be that kind of interplay. That glow up. Yeah, usually they look pretty much, you know, and they can tell. Another interesting thing, you almost never have people say, It's an immediate and intense, deep understanding that this is their beloved.

They can share from issues, you know, what they had and experienced in their past life. There's a predisposition for genetic relatives, but you can be anything, obviously spouses or... you know, pretty much friends, loved people. So again, a beautiful, beautiful part of near-death experiences where you have that joyous reunion. And in fact, even if the earthly life was strained,

That's not an issue anymore. There's joyous sharing. There can be sort of like the analogous of interaction. You can't really touch. You're not physical. But there's certainly a lot of that kind of very close sharing and interaction, very beautiful. very touching part of near-death experience. So there's no, like, needing to get over past things. Everything's just equal there. Yeah, I...

That makes so much sense, man. I think even I think whenever I did some DMT or something, my feeling was just that these intricacies are these idiots. These idiot ways that we interact with each other and how we treat each other, it's all... So pointless.

to the app, to what it all, whatever that value was app. We're like, it's like, there's a whole like equation going on and we're over here like on a um one of those nimbus counters whatever is it or no that's a cloud but like one of those like little you know that i don't know i'm talking about dude jesus christ but um but i do understand that i mean it's

It's like we're infantile in understanding the value of each other. Right. And here we have our earthly things that separate us, those anger, resentments, jealousy. None of that mattered. And yet none of that, absolutely. I wish everybody on Earth could hear you say that to you. None of it matters when you're on the afterlife because... You're letting go of all those. things that kept us apart, that separated on earth, and here we are in the afterlife.

intensely feeling unified, connected, one with everyone and everything. Literally, you know, a concept of super love, if you will. So then why does this happen? Why are we on this leg of life, do you think? Do you be able to grasp? Does anybody get that sort of information or it doesn't really go there? It's just more of this, okay, now I'm this.

There's the opportunity when you die to be embraced into this everlasting, warm, love, all-knowing place. But do they get any intel on why we're in this realm now? I asked a specific survey question if during their near-death experience they got any specific information about the meaning and purpose of life. So, Theo, I've had hundreds and hundreds of people give that narrative response.

in direct answer to that question. And what is fascinating is that our earthly life, first of all, very important. What we learn here, lessons about love. relationships, what we experience is important, but way more important than we could have possibly known. It seems to ripple through an eternity and through the live souls of many, many other people.

That was fascinating for me to understand that as I kept getting these narrative responses. So there is value to what we learn here. That's what you're saying? Oh, absolutely. There is value, and it seems to be extremely important. And here's another concept which a lot of people wouldn't think of, and that is...

You know, all we know here is our earthly life. I mean, this just seems to sometimes drag on forever. But our real... consciousness, our real beings, is that which is eternal and infinite. This physical earthly life that we're living seems to be the tiniest slice.

of our eternal existence. This is literally the one time during our eternal existence when we can know non-eternity, non-infinity, limitations. What an interesting way to think about it. So that is literally... as opposed to trying to be told or learn from other people's experience, there is no other way. for us to learn all that we do in the physical, earthly realm of life other than to experience it as a tiniest slice of our infinite existence.

Wow. Because, yeah, you think like, man, I want to get back there where everything's interesting. But maybe when you're there, you're like, dude, we got to go back to Earth where everything's all kind of piecemeal and weird and you got to figure it out and you hit puberty or whatever and shit. It's strange, you know? Absolutely. I mean, it's only during a physical earthly life. I mean, in the afterlife, you're not going to have that.

You're not going to have that want. You're not going to have suffering. You don't even remember any of that. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It doesn't matter if you saw somebody that you hated. There's not even... All of that friction or whatever doesn't exist, I don't think, in the afterlife. Yeah, but Theo, you've got that overwhelming sense of love.

compassion and connection I mean you really think you would forgive somebody or you don't even have to forgive him it's just known it's I think it's a you it's one thing that's overriding in the afterlife is free will You have the free will choice to forgive someone or not to forgive. But shoot. That's what they say in the afterlife? Well, that's what we see for many near-death experiencers describing is you have free will. So you can still hold a grudge over there?

You would have, I think, out of free will, you would have the ability to hold a grudge, and yet... I don't even know that I've seen any near-death experiencers describe that. In other words... This is completely off the scale in terms of love, peace. that sense of connection, that sense that on our earthly life, even if we made mistakes, and geez, we all did. I know I did. Oh, I know that those referees who didn't call that pass interference are about...

six years ago when Drew Brees was in the playoffs. I know that they did. Talk about mistakes. I'm going to take that one to the afterlife, honestly. You might have a different... perspective when you're in the afterlife. You know what I thought about that? I can let a lot of stuff go, man. But those guys, they should not have done it. They should have figured that out.

Anyway... Maybe I will. You're right. I'm sorry. Yeah, but you have the choice. You'll probably have the choice to do that, and yet you'll understand that in a realm... where literally the guiding force is love, that that might not be loving. And so that might not be who you are at that point in time. And I think it's tough to put yourself in the mindset of that infinite, eternal...

beyond earthly love and unity that you have there. But that's what I hear of times thousands. No, look, I think... I think that part relates to feelings that I've had under some psychedelics or under ayahuasca is just this all know this. This, I can't remember if it's ayahuasca or DMT, whichever, it was something. I haven't done them in a long time, but, um...

Where it felt like, yes, all this silly stuff of the world, this earthly world, didn't matter. But then there must be some long-term thing to it. But like you're saying, it does. It does matter to be here and exist and go through this. My friend Megan Sheehy, she's like a therapist in Oregon, and she's really a really neat thinker and a deep thinker. And she. She would say sometimes that some of our souls, some souls that you come across.

And some of our souls and maybe me and... and maybe you and or like baby souls it's like their first time doing uh the earth show you know And so some souls you meet and they're just like, oh, some of them have been here a long time maybe and they're smoking or whatever and they're complaining outside of the library. But some of them, it's their first time and they're like, you know.

having a blast or just i don't know i thought that was kind of a interesting school of thought that she shared with me one time Yeah, it's a concept of old souls. I've heard of that before. Right, you've heard of that before. I've just never heard of young, so I'd never really thought of the other side of it, that it's some soul. It's just like they're fresh out of the bassinet. If you have old souls, you have young souls. Yeah, I didn't put it together. But again, I think it's all...

You know, in the afterlife, I don't know if there's really a judgment or that it's so critical. I think we're all here to learn. You know, we're all here to share and interact with each other and learn from those relationships and grow from those relationships. I mean, that's going to be a part of the consciousness of who we are, what we are, and literally what we can share with. eternal consciousness on an ongoing basis. So it's really that important. It's not just

our consciousness, it's what we can do as a group. It's what we can, yeah, it's literally, there's a shared consciousness. I love that. There's a shared knowing. And so that's, we talked about briefly earlier about like a ripple effect of consciousness. what we do in earthly life, the choices we make, the love that we express.

is actually literally rippling through eternity, far more important than we could possibly know here. Man, I love that. That's such a great thought, man. It's such a great theory, too, and it's one that we need to put out there more. And I feel like... we're getting more, I feel like that is going to become, I think we're starting to realize that these, these ways of like immense greed and like putting each other at.

like massive amounts of people that paying for profit and just, and it just, there's no, what is the long-term value of it? I don't see anybody that thinks, what is the long-term value of oppressing a people? It's like, we have to be evolving out of that. And it's like, I think a lot of us are starting to see that. It does, because the only way we all have to be here.

And it's like we have you have to find a way where it all works out, you know, and some of these archaic ideas of greed and of just. I think about that stuff a lot. I like that because, after all, you know the old adage. You can't take it with you. I mean, if you spend your life being greedy and hoarding and material possessions, none of that is going to exist in a physical afterlife. But what is going to be a part of you, your soul, is going to be...

those loving outreaches you had. It's going to be those times that you really showed compassion. And that is going to be what helps define us, our eternal soul, and will ripple out and be a part of us forever. I agree with you. But we can do that as a—I think our leadership and how we choose to can do that like—

Like, I don't know. I'm not like a socialist, really, I don't think. But I guess I am a person that, like, that I believe people should be capped on kind of the amount of money that they can make. I don't believe that corporate, like, we should. I don't think we should sacrifice the overall betterment of people and of your experience on earth. technological advancement for profit. I don't like. i don't know i haven't fully conceptualized some of my ideas and i don't know what they are

But I just see how it just makes it sick. It's like we could just we could have better lives overall, it feels like. But then maybe part of the reason that we're here is to have this struggle and to see these things and to know what. what the ups and downs feel like and to know what it feels like not to care about each other as much as we should you know so that when you do go to that other place it's like oh this makes so much sense

You nailed it. It's the struggle. We're having struggles here, all of us, you know, the needs, the wants. the thinking that we should be agreed. you know, the desires we have to, you know, struggle with just being human. I wonder if we do better, do we evolve? Like, I wonder if at a certain point we do, like, good enough, then God gives us another sense. Like, now you got this sense, boys. And you're like, whoa, bro. So I wonder if we can evolve if we all got to a level of.

Of caring about each other or of doing something, you know, and I know that shit sounds kind of hoity toity and we are the world and magic Johnson or whatever, or Michael Johnson molested those kids or whatever. I'm not saying all of that, but I'm just saying like, if we all got to a level.

Do we get to go to another level if we can beat this level on earth? Absolutely. I think that's a beautiful statement of a hope, of a vision for humanity. If we can all learn about the importance of love, compassion, sharing. Let go of those all-too-human greed ones. you know, the incredible disparities in material goods around the world, which is just incredible, if we could let go of that, if we could all know that we are one, we are one world, one people, if we could just...

visualize that, work towards making it happen. Absolutely. We as a humanity could evolve and evolve in a very positive direction. And we unlock a new sense. And we would, yes. And I think that that is a great expression of hope. So, good. I like your attitude too, Dr. Long. And look, obviously, I'm sitting here in a warm room and, you know, clothes and food and everything. I'm not, like, trying to, uh... burn down every moment of my own life or like achievement or something.

just to try and say that that idea isn't possible. It's like, obviously, we're privileged enough to be able to say that, or whatever. We have microphones, we have electricity and everything. And yet here we are talking about being able to talk about this. And yet we're learning about the importance of these values from near-death experiences, from our own lives. I mean, it's that seed of compassion that I think every human being has.

It's just a matter of bringing that out, helping people to manifest that and how it would change the world. Right. If we all understood that. And different ethnicities, different places, different people, they have less of it than others. I think different people, because we all have different pieces of each other's lock, you know, like we're all the keys to each other's locks. That's what my friend James Bashar always says. And it's like.

We're all different. We do need each other. Anyway, this is getting a little bit preachy almost, but it's positive, and it's good, and it's a good message, and I don't mean that, but I don't want to get to the point where we sound like we're just... We're trying to save the world. Yeah, and yet the hope for humanity that we are expressing very directly here is directly part of the near-death experience wisdom. Over and over, we're understanding those concepts.

And that's directly relevant to the greater truth, the greater understanding, and literally the hope for world that people that have near-death experiences bring out. Now, what about this, dude? They say, if somebody's going to die and they're not going to do near-death experience, they're just going to die, right?

What should you wear you think if you're going to die? Because some people say, you know, sometimes I think that if whatever you wear, you die and you could get that job in the afterlife. They say dress for the job you want. You know what I'm talking about? Theo, in 25 years of having interviews like this, that's the first time I've heard this question. So I'll address that. I don't think it makes beans worth a difference what you're wearing or what you're not wearing or nothing at all.

In the afterlife, it's going to be your consciousness, not your clothes. It's not going to be any aspect of who we are physically. clothes, hair, jewelry we're wearing. We are much more than that. We are consciousness, and that's what near-death experiencers are consistently describing as going on to the afterlife.

I think I'm going to wear a chef's hat probably because I would want to be in a bakery. I think if I'm in heaven and you're in a bakery, imagine how good it smells, you know? I don't want to be good. And you're just making scones or whatever because the British, I guess, get to go to heaven as well. Oh, you're making me hungry. Yeah. Heavenly scones. I don't believe, you know. Okay. I don't believe everybody should be there, but I'm, you know.

all right but the british they're good folks but you know some people don't think that they are yeah but um This is one last question I have for you, Dr. Long. And thank you so much for your time today, man. The pleasure. I'm glad this evolved. I think we stayed patient with each other and this evolved into a cool conversation. This is an awesome conversation. So carry on what you got there. Yeah. And I'm grateful to this book, man. I'm grateful just like.

you know, that there's somebody who wants to care enough to think about this and collect this information because it's. It's kind of tedious, I'm sure. It is literally my second full-time job, and a big shout-out to my wife, Jodi. She is a licensed attorney, and yet she stepped down from doing that so she could devote full-time. to running the website and working to gather this information and share it back with the world.

The experiences, the near-death experiences shared with us freely, it's wonderful that we have the opportunity to share them back freely. literally in over 30 different languages, so people all over the world can read these. If you go to the website, nderf.org, go to the homepage, you'll quickly realize, yeah, we don't have anything for sale and we don't solicit donations. Why?

That doesn't seem like the typical materialistic viewpoint. It's because we know that the information we have, the experiences we're sharing are so important, we don't want to compromise the integrity of that by having any commercial interest right on the homepage. Okay, got it. That's fair. I respect that, man. I think there's certainly ways to do that sort of thing. And there's ways also not to feel embarrassed about it. I think from listening to you, I think I can...

People's instincts usually are what they are, and everybody will make their own decision as to if somebody thinks you're some sort of a snake oil salesman or something, but that's not what I gather. And we do that for everyone. We do that on all types of things. I'll tell you this. I accidentally bought four copies of the book and one audio copy of Evidence of the Afterlife because I didn't know where I was going to be.

I, um, if I was going to be here or LA, so I bought one and then, uh, my friend got me one and then I bought an audio. copy as well, but I don't have God in the afterlife. This is a different book. Yeah, that came out later, and that's where we went into the deeper, if you will, spiritual. content of near-death experiences, concepts of God, which I want to hasten to add, many near-death experiencers say God is a human word, and what they encountered...

God is far beyond human language, far more, you know, they are concerned about being limited in what they encountered by using verbal expressions of that which is beyond the verbal, beyond language in God, but also a great deal of writing in this book about love and the concepts of that that seems to be, if you will, the glue that holds the universe together. And what we've alluded to earlier...

The overwhelming, consistent comments from people that have been in that unearthly, heavenly realm, that amazing concept that we're all one, we're all unified, we're all together. and forever which is again completely different from conventional Western religious thinking and yet by the literally at this point thousands we have people that have near-death experiences sharing that.

Yeah, no, I think that that's interesting. So that one's a little bit more of a religious aspect. This has nothing to do with religion. This is purely evidence-based. This is purely what people having... Okay, their experience of any interactions with what they perceive to be God, and you're saying that overall that experience was that the God that they perceived or the energy of a higher power or of a... was greater than something we could actually conceptualize.

And the best we can do with that here on earth is by saying God. Absolutely. God is just the most common word. I mean, you know, there's really no other concept. It goes to the senses of this is the best we can do. with the five senses we have is create this this lower level, according now, if we believe in this higher level of communication and of sharing an idea of something. Absolutely, yeah.

You nailed it there, Theo. Thanks, dude. It only took us two hours to do it. Have you had anyone who had a near-death experience from a... A like a mass. Like a 9-11 or a school shooting or a mass. death type of scenario? Was there anything like that ever? I know you said there was one where there was two people. Have you had anybody report from something greater like that? Wow, that's a good question. Fortunately, mass sudden death. mass shootings, mass things like that.

are very, very rare. Virtually all people that die, it's going to be their individual death, that accident, illness, advanced age that kills them. I can't right off the top of my head think of any... near-death experiences that occurred at a time of a very mass death that had been shared with but i'll sure keep my eyes out for one yeah yeah i'm just wondering if there's too much death in one moment at that place for the other side to like really You know, maybe they have to just...

you know, maybe they don't have as much of a intake. you know, person working that day or whatever, where you have enough time with them. You know what I'm saying? You don't, I don't know where, you know, cause I imagine that some things would be a little bit similar. Maybe they're just like, all right, everybody get in here. You know, you can't loiter, you know?

I don't think we have to worry about that. Every hint of information about the afterlife is overwhelmingly more intelligent, loving, and I think there's an immediate... sort of aware entry into the afterlife for anybody who's permanently deceased on this world. Any celebrities have reached out to you or any interesting folks like that or like people, you know, that are any like. interesting folks that have reached out to you to be more curious about your work?

Yeah, we do periodically here for some, I mean, you name it, doctors, executives, some people that don't want their name mentioned. But yeah, we've had some people very interested in this that have contacted me. You know, like, are you sure, Dr. Long? What is the evidence behind it? Can you share it with me? So I've bantered with some people way up the food chain, if you will, in this society.

that are fascinated with this research and want sort of a one-on-one perspective. So, yeah, I've done that. There's plenty of, I mean... How can you not be fascinated about what happens after you die? And so people that are well-to-do, that are famous, literally, have those same interests that I think everybody does, certainly at least some point in their life.

Well, it's a big conversation that we have about death, and a lot of times it's a conversation I think that we have with ourselves, but that we're really afraid to have. Absolutely. You know, I don't know how much I have a conversation with myself about death, and if I do, what even is it really? Yeah.

Do you know anything about that? It's such an unknown. It's such a mystery. Oh, I think just about every person that's ever walked this planet like you have thought about this, and it's unknown or unknowable. The good news is, interestingly, When people have a near-death experience, as you might guess, their fear of death

drops dramatically from a person who's had a near-death experience. These are called after effects, the typically observed changes after a near-death experience. And one of the most common is a dramatic reduction in their personal fear of death. And that's no surprise now, is it? They know what lies beyond death's door because they personally experienced it. They know it's wonderful and not to be feared.

Man, that reminds me whenever I did that DMT, man, I remember I called my mother after I sent her a text and I said, hey, ma, don't worry about getting older or dying. It's not that big of a deal. What we're doing here isn't as super important as we think it is. and that everything's going to be way awesomer than you think it is.

Which is just interesting because that's the only time. I think maybe that DMT experience was a little bit more like some of the near-death experience, but I'm going to go and read. I'm going to go check out that website and see what more information I can garner because this is really just neat to think about. But man, yeah, to get close. Now, are there people who... Want to sign up and say, hey, put me under some type of...

A coma or something so I can try to have a near-death experience? Are there kind of like astronauts of death where they... want to go into that darkness and see what they can get and come back? Are there people like that? Fortunately, people that have raised that possibility for having themselves have an induced death.

First of all, it's vanishingly rare, thank goodness. Second of all, nobody's ever going to do that. That would be illegal, unethical, and that's not how you study near-death experiences. I mean, shoot, look at this. We've had thousands of people. share their near-death experiences? Why should we put someone's life in jeopardy? to just study what we can ask literally thousands, tens of thousands, probably around the world millions of people.

that have had near-death experience. So absolutely nobody's going to do that. Right. I see it from your side, especially as a medical professional, right? Dude, I bet we could damn do a sign-up online.

i bet you get six people off twitter by midnight today who would do it you know who would let you put them under some sort of a thing and they would sign the you know the you know the red rover agreement or whatever if they don't come back or whatever i don't know what it would be called but i bet we could I bet there's a lot of people who would be like near death.

experienced astronauts or whatever who would want to just, you know, every other day, maybe they, maybe it's an every other day job. You put them in a coma or something and say, see what happened. They try to come back around. Yeah. Sadly, that's true. I think there's a lot of people that. so want to incorporate that wonderful message of near-death experience into their own life, that they would be willing to risk it. Again, illegal, unethical, and absolutely not.

a self-loving path, which we see in near-death experiences so commonly, that overwhelming importance of love, that's not loving either themselves. or to the individuals who would put them in a dying state. It's sort of like the lessons we learned from people that had near-death experiences as a result of suicide attempts. They learned vividly that that's not the right thing to do. It was a huge mistake. Wow, man, this is pretty heavy here, Theo.

But you don't have a lot of talks where things get this deep. No, and it's nice, though. I want to have more talks like this. And I think, you know, even us just talking about some of these things, like I want to have more talks about like greed and why do we. live in this space because I think some of the sickness that we feel as humans these days That we like, you know, there's a lot of emotional unwellness and mental unwellness. And I think a lot of it is just because of us. We've realized.

or we feel and we can't even maybe put words to it sometimes that we're sick of something we've created, a way of being. a way of treating each other. And even some of us are at fault. We're all part of it, but we're sick of it. I think we're, it's making us sick, but we are all stuck in it kind of. And we don't.

And we've never been able to see it before, but I think we're starting to be able to see it a little bit. Does that make any sense to you or am I crazy? No, absolutely. I like what you're saying. I think there's... There's sort of that sickness innate in humanity. I mean, here we are self-focused, focused away from other people, focused on our own interests and our own... wealth or everything. I mean, it's literally you're getting down to values. There's a sickness.

in the expression of values all around the world today. And that's a sad thing. Globally, you could call it unloving. And yet, here in near-death experiences is that consistent message. pointing to that's not the way. That's not how life is to be lived. You need to think about your neighbor. You need to think about other people. You need to reach out compassionately. I mean, it's literally a profound message of hope for all of humanity. And in fact...

These profound, deep messages in the near-death experience are, in my opinion, the most profoundly positive message, even conceivable, for all of humanity. It's crazy that we have to almost die to get a message of how to live. We have all this life in front of us, every moment in front of our eyes, and you have to go that close to that white vulture of the Lord death.

and go over there and feed him bird seed out of your dang hand and get a little bit of information from him. And yet I think we need to, if we do understand that that's the big picture, that that's really a part of our real eternal and infinite existence. and that we're all here to learn lessons to move closer to that greater reality that we have, that unity, that love.

that compassion, I mean, I think that sets, you know, really a pathway that we can all think about each day of our daily lives and maybe move one step closer to being our true selves, which is what we're going to be in the afterlife. Yeah, man. It's definitely, uh... It's definitely super fascinating. It's interesting to think about. I'm grateful that God let me exist to even kind of.

Just get to think about stuff like this. That's sometimes the most fascinating thing about life, and especially being able to stay alive and get older because you get to see more concepts. That's one of the saddest things, I think, when people die young is they just don't get to see. How things kind of a little bit more clarity you get and a little bit more light knowledge you get of what of existing and stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything else I was going to ask you about?

Man, this has been a great interview. Has it been? Yeah, you've really covered a lot of material here. Very fascinating. I love this different perspective that you're bringing out in this discussion here. I think you're coming at the concept of near-death experiences in a very special and I think very important, very positive way. It's sort of that you need to think about near-death experiences.

are such an all-encompassing, we start talking about infinite and eternal consciousness in our self or souls. I mean, literally just coming at the concept of near-death experiences from so many different ways. I have learned in this discussion here, I've thought about things I haven't really thought about before. So this has been great. This has been very helpful to me personally.

And I'm sure the vast number of viewers as well. Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, well, I think it's, you know, yeah, I just feel grateful that we got to chat about it, dude, honestly.

you know it's nice to think about and it's nice to be just reminded about it you know it's interesting the things that we focus on and listen to and stuff do have an effect on how we feel and think and stuff you know i think sometimes yeah Yeah, I think it's important, you know, where we put our attention, you know, and the dark arts have really masterminded ways to take our attention.

and use it for evil i don't think they know they're doing it for evil they think there's other reason behind it but we just have to be careful where we put our attention you know that's the most important thing it's hard and i'm not preaching about it i suffer just like everybody else but to recognize that we suffer is kind of a or that we're that where we're trapped a little bit is it's kind of interesting and good start

That's really cool, man. What a neat hobby that turns into something fascinating. When you look back on that part of it, like your own attention to it and stuff. What gifts has it given you out of paying attention to it? Absolutely. I have been profoundly affected by my study of near-death experiences. As a physician, and I'm practicing full time, this has helped me to be much more compassionate, focused on the patients.

loving to them literally, going the extra mile, really being the kind of a doctor to my patients that I would want a doctor to be with me. And in fact, in the facility that I'm working at now, patient satisfaction is measured by a national survey called Press Ganey. For the past seven months, the facility I'm working in. Yeah, I've heard of that before. You've heard of Press Ganey. Well, I bet you probably haven't heard of this. In the last seven months,

Of the Press Ganey surveys in the facility I'm working with, every single patient that was surveyed on every single question, we were at the 99% level. Congratulations. Based against national standards. But again, it shows, and I want to emphasize. I contributed to that by the compassion and love and attention and focus I give patients. But that's a whole dang team that shares that value of compassion, doing their best.

of making patients feel like it's their home away from home when they come in there, that they're really being cared for. Each person is an individual. So between me and the whole team there, we have some of the highest. patient satisfaction scores you're going to find anywhere, Theo. Well, congratulations. Yeah, thank you. No, that's awesome that your own work has ended up, that your own hobbies and interests have ended up inspiring you to do your original job better. It really has.

With Press Ganey, we had a cornering. And he was talking about once press gained, they started calling people and asking them to rate how their experience. Right. Right. That it started to affect that somehow the opioid. Those makers use the Press Ganey. Press Ganey scores and the...

The opioid makers were using the press Ganey to somehow... Do you know what I'm talking about at all? Yeah, unfortunately, I am suspicious that... you know, patients that were seeking narcotics and then would get that would rank their health care team higher than if their health care team did proper medicine and didn't give them inappropriate opioids.

I hope that's not what this is, but I have a fear. I just remembered literally when you said that. This is the only second time I've ever heard it. Go back to the top, please. It says the U.S. has – get to the writing. The U.S. has been in the middle of an opioid crisis for the past decade.

More than 150 people a day die from opioids. We know all that stuff. In an interesting angle, researchers have been looking if there's a direct or indirect link between Press Ganey scores and the opioid crisis. Prescani is a company that has the healthcare industry's largest database of patient, caregiver, and physician feedback, which you're saying you guys have done a great job with. And you think that a lot of that is because of your also understanding of what people.

potential life after their life on earth is. It has certainly helped me to be a more compassionate, courageous doctor. I mean, I deal with patients. These are people that... are facing a life-threatening illness. Cancer is a scary word. But with what I've learned about near-death experiences, I can approach Each patient with cancer in their journey of treatment and hopefully recovery and cure.

with increased hope, with increased compassion, in a way that I know is beyond what I could have done before I started studying near-death experience. Well, yeah, if you're a concierge for this more comfortable... afterlife or existence even just a even if you just are collecting all the rumors of it that's very fascinating i think that would definitely warm me if i'm a someone who's really in severe pain i mean it warms me and i'm not in pain

But yeah, I just want to look at this. But patients using prescription opioids to manage their pain are 32% more likely to report high patient satisfaction scores, according to recent research out of Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center. But here's my question is, why... If a medical place gets a higher Press Gainey score, is there a financial incentive to them?

I mean, not directly. I'm not accusing you of anything. You just happen to be here when this is happening. I don't want you to feel like I'm attaching anything to you. No, I'm not. I haven't read that study, so I can't really comment on the Dartmouth study.

You'd really have to read it to understand the nuances, to really interpret it, I think, accurately. But, you know, as the study says, there's probably many different reasons that people could... could rate their healthcare team higher if they get...

you know, more opioids. Oh yeah. Opioid. Damn. I'll rate, you know, I'll rate my, you know, I'll rate my neighbor's violent son higher, you know, or whatever, you know what I'm saying? I'll rate somebody parked in my driveway higher and I don't even know him, you know, but.

This says the surveys promote an assumption that patient satisfaction is an index of physician competence. But then what hospitals can do is they can say we have the highest score medical places. Because I was just curious. I remember he said that and I was like. Because he said he thought some of the opioid crisis was influenced more.

by some part of the press gaining, but I couldn't understand what he was talking about, and so we didn't go down that road. So when you said it, it just made me think about it. Yeah, and I'd have to look over the study because it's multifactorial. I'm sure it is. simple opioid you know it's not it's correlated not causal it could be for any medicine really if we give more medicine to our some of our clientele then they're

Some places are hypothesizing. Well, then they'll give us higher scores. And if we get higher scores, then we can say we're the best rank.

the hospital or whatever in the area. Yeah, I mean, I'd wonder about that. I don't know if the Dartmouth study made that point, but that's certainly a concern. I can't imagine that that... i mean i guess if you make that much money by being a higher rank then maybe it would be worth it to you to me it doesn't seem like there's enough juice for the squeeze really in it um

I appreciate it, man. It may be longer, huh? If there's an afterlife. Oh, yeah. That's a good point. This may not be ado at the end of this discussion. There may be a continuity, a sharing of experience in an afterlife. infinitely and eternally. So we may encounter each other again as souls.

Well, nice to get to know you here on the starter block. I like that phrase. Thank you so much for just aiding people in their cancer journeys and for being somebody that's curious about possibilities outside of just... the form of modern medicine these days, and I think that's really interesting. for people to hear and and uh and thank your wife too for being a part of your life as you guys have that's brought y'all closer together in some ways and and she's helped and

It just seems interesting, and I'm glad that you did all this work so that we could think about it. Yeah, well, thank you. Great interview. We covered some very fascinating and informative concepts here, so it's been an honor and a privilege to hang out with you and talk about all this. This is great.

You bet, man. And people will put links to your stuff online, and you are a practicing physician. Yep, full-time. Dear God. Yeah, I know. I tried to retire, and I failed, went back to working full-time. But heck, it's a labor of love, just like my... work and near-death experiences. I love doing both aspects of my life. Thank you so much, Dr. Long, and I wish you the best of luck. Thank you.