Episode 199: The Psychedelic Frontier: Navigating Entrepreneurship & Safety (feat. Matthew Ritchey)

The emerging world of psychedelic medicines , accompanied by the ancillary industries associated with them , is bringing with it a lot of opportunities , and for me being , as how I grew up in the world , not generally interested in most of what other people did , I have long been excited at the thought of new industry emerging that can do its part in shaking up the

typical way we've been taught life has to be . Things such as what medicine truly is and how to reach optimum health , the role that things such as community play in a human being's life , what work is and how we can make it more engaging and meaningful , and the list goes on and on and on .

The challenge within this new emerging space , however , is that , because of its rapid growth , it can oftentimes be challenging to discern what is real , what is false , who to listen to , how to keep yourself protected , etc . And that is why I am so excited to share with you this week's guest on the show .

He has made it his mission to support others in wading through this emerging field with confidence and clarity through his business , the Inner Circle . The Inner Circle is a community of vetted plant medicine pioneers , leaders and entrepreneurs all working collectively to navigate compliance , reduce guesswork and ultimately have one another's backs in this emerging space .

So please give me a big hand in welcoming my man , matthew Ritchie , to the show . Matthew Ritchie , my man Boy , am I excited to be here with you today For all the listeners tuning in . It is also Matt's birthday today , so make sure you shout him a happy birthday when you listen to this episode . But , man , I am super excited to have you on .

First of all , I want to know how are you doing today , man ? How's your birthday going so far , so far so good . It's early yet in in the day here on the west coast , but uh yeah , it's shaping up to be a good day . Heck yeah , man , heck yeah . I feel honored that we saved this podcast until your birthday .

I know we had to reschedule it before , so this is divine timing , my man that's usually how the universe works right .

But where I like to start these episodes out is how you first even found out about psychedelic medicines , how you got interested in them too , Because finding out and then being interested are two different things , right ? Did they happen at the same time for you ? Did you find out ? Were you immediately interested ? Were you like me ?

Did you find out and you were scared of them ? Like , how did that journey start off for you ?

But as a kid I didn't use any of them and I actually didn't drink alcohol until I was almost 21 . So I was just very disciplined . I was racing motocross and just had other things I was doing that was more health and health focused . And then , you know , I actually used cannabis for the first time when I was 27 .

And it really kind of opened up some things in my life and at that point I actually started to just become more aware of some of the things that other people were using you know , psychedelics , mushrooms and other things like that periphery in my friends and other people that were using cannabis and other other plant medicines .

So once I started to open up to cannabis , it's like , oh well , this isn't what they told me it was , so maybe these other things aren't exactly what they told me . They were either Right , so that kind of the , you know , started the journey of kind of being interested into what these other things are . I'm very curious .

I'm like , well , if they've told me one thing and I've learned this , this other thing is true . I'm curious that what else is true ? What else is what else ? I've been lied about , right . So for me , cannabis was actually an a doorway to a repressed memory as a child .

So I had some sexual abuse as a kid , around 10 or 12 years old , and I had a repressed memory until I was 27 . And cannabis actually blew the lid off of that veil that I'd been putting between me and that memory and really exposed the trauma that I had .

So for me , I was actually then now seeking out psychedelics specifically because I was feeling like they would be a tool for me to help my integration and my healing process . So for me , to help my integration and my healing process . So for me people always laugh when I say this cannabis was my technically my first psychedelic .

My real first psychedelic journey was an ayahuasca journey . So in you know , I'd done cannabis for a couple years . I had known that the trauma was there , I was kind of working through it , but I just felt like there was something else .

I needed to kind of like I say , kind of take the lid completely off and take the veil completely down of what I had previously experienced and what my trauma was hiding from me . So ayahuasca was really my first , you know , real psychedelic experience . I kind of went deep on the first one . This was the spring of 2013 , I think .

So it's been over 10 years now that that first psychedelic experience happened . And then from there that really helped open up my eyes around a lot of things and , like I say , there's tremendous healing .

That was from that just one episode , and I of course did some integrations and some EMDR therapy and some other smaller than psilocybin journeys to kind of continue to integrate over the next couple of years . But that was really my first iteration with it .

But psychedelics have played such an amazing role in my life , both in healing my personal trauma and my previous childhood experiences . But then also a couple of years later I was getting married in 2016 . So doing that kind of helped heal me and make me a whole as a man , which sounds kind of weird In this state of being sexually abused as a young kid .

You kind of have some confusion and you have some some um , some lack of lack of self-confidence , right , and just didn't really feel like I had uh , you know , I didn't feel like I was a man , I didn't really feel like I deserved to be with a woman . Does that make sense ?

Yeah , so healing that alone allowed me to then uh , be excited and then get engaged to them . I think , girlfriend , now my wife , and then , right before getting married , I did a siluoska experience .

So that's , uh , for lack of a better experience or definition , is basically psilocybin with an , you know , with an inhibitor that basically extends it and makes it a deeper experience . Much like ayahuasca same same but different . Like similar timeline , similar experience but just different medicine .

And then , coming out of that experience , I was just really like I was . You know , everyone going into their , their wedding I'm sure has some cold feet in or just like just unsure , right , like you're just unsure , like , hey , I'm coming to something for the rest of my life , like that's just a big deal .

So for me , having that silawati experience about I think it was three weeks before my wedding just completely like cemented me into the , the decision I had made , and really made me solid , as like say , kind of bringing my confidence up . So that's psychedelics .

For me has been a really a confidence builder right , kind of exposing my inner thoughts and my inner you know traumas and my inner you know beingness to myself , both to heal and and be , you know , give myself some self love , but then also to like say to see how badass I've been and how things have done and the things that I've cultivated over the years .

So , uh , you know , from there then you know not to go too far to my , my secular journey . But then two years later I wasn't sure if I wouldn't have kids . My wife really wouldn't have kids . I just was like I was kind of unsure . I was kind of like , say I confident enough to , you know , commit to one woman maybe ? Okay , yes , I can do that .

My confident enough to then bring other humans into the world where I have to basically commit to them every day . For 18 years I was not there yet . So I had a men's group at the time .

So we basically did an overnight backpacking journey and you know I took a whole 3.5 grams of mushrooms laid in a field for about three hours and came out of it just so excited to be a dad .

I went through a whole process of envisioning myself as a dad , of all the joy and all the you know , all the traumas and all the things that could go wrong , all the things that could go right . Coming out of that , I was just so excited to then be a dad . I have two kids . My youngest is three , my other one's six .

So psychedelics have really played a critical role in all of my pivotal decisions . You know , deciding what to really do with my life , healing my traumas , deciding decisions .

You know , deciding what to really do with my life , healing my traumas , deciding to actually step in and be a man and become a father , or become a husband and then become a father Like these are big decisions , right . So for me , psychedelics has really played a key role into me stepping into what I knew I really wanted but I was fearful of .

So for me , I was never really fearful of psychedelics because I didn't really know any better , other than I just thought all drugs were bad .

And once I realized that all drugs were not bad , then I started to be curious and then that curiosity really just kind of brought me into that whole path that I just kind of described there , which brings me here today , which , uh , you know , I don't have as many deeper psychedelic experiences on the regular now , just because I'm busy and I don't have time to

integrate them , but I actually just had after five years , or actually actually after six years , I just had my very first . Or I went six years between deep ceremonies , I just had my very first mescaline San Pedro ceremony , so that was three or four weeks ago now .

Amazing , amazing medicine as well , much more gentle , much more easing , but it also , like I say , just brings out some forgiveness , brings up some things that I've been holding on to over the last five or six years .

Forgiveness brings up some things that I've been holding on to over the last five or six years that , like I say , you don't really know some of the stuff that's lingering in your conscious or your unconscious mind until you pull away some of those veils .

That kind of the veil kind of keeps us safe , keeps us , you know , not worrying , not stressing about some of the things that are happening or have happened in our life . Right ? So for me , bringing down that veil , that's what psychedelics really do for me .

Like , can you give me that inside , look under the hood and give me the you know , the full picture to make ?

And then I found conspiracy theories , which was a side quest , and fortunately I have a lot of Virgo in my chart , so I say pretty grounded with that , could have gone off the deep end with that , but just really enjoyed you know what cannabis and then you know subsequently other medicines opened up for me .

And you hit a nail on the head to where you said curious , like curiosity . I think that's a very natural human trait . It might not be for the same things in each person , but I think to be human is naturally to be curious .

And I think that you know when we look at all the frontiers and you know , especially as men right , the adventures , the cowboy era , things like that . You know .

And now we look at the way the world is today , I think a lot of us not only do we fill in missing rites of passage as men with psychedelics right , which is what you were kind of talking about there of like having a rite of passage , of like okay , I'm now stepping into a deeper , you know , masculine energy as a husband and then a father after that .

And the other thing too that we do is , you know , I think we we allow psychedelics not maybe fill in , but maybe supplement to use that term supplement the fact that we don't adventure a whole lot , as most adults don't adventure a whole lot these days .

Right , like again , you and I , I think , live a little bit of a different life because we own our own businesses , you know things like that . But for a lot of people they'll have a very stationary life and that's not a bad thing , it's not , you know , a judgmental thing , it's just a thing .

But I think that it's also very human nature to want to adventure and want to have experiences , and so I think it's a great kind of bridging of a gap to have some like psychedelics where you know you got a busy life going on .

You're a dad , you're a husband , you could connect with cannabis , go into meditation for an hour and have an adventure , you know , have an experience . You could , if you have a , you know , overnight trip with the guys you know , do a psilocybin experience , mescaline , et cetera , and explore what I truly believe is the last true frontier , which is the mind .

And so I really , really enjoy you sharing those things , because it brings up a lot of me of what these medicines and what these experiences represent to me and how much they've really broken me open . Because that's exactly what I always say with what you said , which was that you don't really know what's in there until you break it open .

The way I usually say it is you don't know what , you don't know until you know it , and even when you know it , you don't really know it , and then that just starts the cycle over again . So it's really cool to be able to hear that .

You know , they spin around themselves until they get dizzy and fall or , you know , crash into something . So that was something I noticed as well is that we as as humans , are curious , but then we're also seeking altered states , and that's an interesting thing for me .

Actually , I've done a lot of research around altered states and , uh , you know , we're not unique in that sense .

Like you know , dolphins and jaguars and every , pretty much every you know elephants , all these , you know mammals in the , or you know other beings in the animal kingdom are seeking and or have ways to have altered states , and I think there's something about that .

It's not escapism , it's more around changing your perspective , I think , and getting out of your normal everyday groove . Right , people think it has a rut . Hopefully , you have a groove , not a rut , but either way , a groove can be good , but it's like okay , well , I've been in this groove , maybe I've been here a month , a year , whatever it's like .

Maybe I need to , you know , go up 30 000 feet and look at that . Maybe I need to jump ruts , maybe I need to go over this way , right ? So I think there's a natural inclination for you know , we say creatures , creatures that are alive to have altered states , to seek altered states , to see what's different .

I'm curious , like what does it look like up here ? Like what does my life look up here ? What does the world look like from this perspective ? So I think it's a really natural thing , especially having kids now seeing that come out , play out naturally , with no , you know , nothing from my end , to really cultivate that .

Right , there were risks involved you could get put in jail , you know all these different things , and yet we were still doing it . So it almost feels like it's as natural as breathing to us in a certain sense , and actually breathing is a way to induce altered states . That's a funny pun there .

But , just like you were saying , because I've thought into this a lot in my life too , I'm like what ? What is that feeling that just makes me want to , like , hit a button and do something ? You know there are certain patterns that I've evaluated in my own life , or escapism and things like that . But also , what even is that Right ?

Like , is it just escapism ? I just want to escape my life , or what is it For me ? What I found is that in the good times or the challenging times , it's that I'm realizing there's something where , like , the level of thinking I'm on can't figure it out . I know there's a challenge , but I also know that I'm unable to figure it out from that state .

So it begs a perspective shift of some sort . And there are lots of ways to get that perspective shift . You can go for a run , which is also a state changer . You know you could do a workout , all these different things that could possibly change your state .

But I think that you know , for instance , if I wake up and I'm feeling just kind of groggy or whatever , all right , go hit a cold shower or like hop on the rebounderer or something like that .

But if I'm like having a challenge like you were having right , like hey , like I want to take the next step , I want to become a father , but I don't know if I can Like those big things , usually a run is not going to solve that , you know maybe , but usually I don't like to put limitations , it's possible .

And then when I had a psychedelic experience , I'm like wait a second . I've been here before and it wasn't through medicine or know , was through my own breath . Um , so I was very fortunate to be connected to some people here early on . Um , you know a friend of mine , christian . He'd been doing breath work .

He was a monk at srf for 10 years and then basically got out and now he's been teaching breath work around the world for the last 15 plus years . So he was one of the one . He was the one who basically took me through his breath flow .

It's like a 45 minute experience where you basically have a psychedelic experience right through your breath and um , yeah , I think people should not discount that .

If not any , if anything else , you should start there with your psychedelic journey or with your altered states journey , because that is probably the safest , most easily accessible way to jump into an altered state . Of course you need a little guidance . You could probably download or probably watch a youtube video and do it yourself .

Probably some practitioners in you know in your area potentially that could help you . But either way , there's , there's ways to do your use , your breath that are extremely powerful and you don't need these exogenous compounds to experience the same thing yeah , yeah and it's , it's .

Unless I'm in person with people , what I always do is I just hit herbs , damiana , skullcap , whatever . When we're doing the connection break and so very common , I'll just lay down boom , boom , boom , good to go , and I shit you , not man .

I had one of the craziest psychedelic experiences in my life where you know I like even deep , deep in medicine , I know I'm on medicine , like there's this awareness of like , yep , I'm on medicine , even 5-MeO DMT . Yes , I can remember like blacking out to a certain degree , but it was a lot more messy feeling .

I don't know how to put that in human terms , but when I , when I do breath , work and I blast off , especially like a 40 plus minute journey where , like you know , you're doing multiple rounds , you're satiating your body with endogenous DMT and a cocktail of other you know things as well , I can just get to these states where I'm just gone Like I don't exist

, I'm not a human being , I'm just gone . And then , all of a sudden , there'll be something that pings me . Usually it's Chris saying all right , we're going to come on back now and I'm like huh , what is that ? And then , like I'm like , oh , I'm a human , oh , I'm hosting a workshop right now . Oh , that's where we are , you know . So I definitely agree .

It's straight up one of the strongest psychedelic experiences you can possibly have and think about like the innate intelligence of creator , god , whatever you want to call that . It's like , yeah , we have all these medicines , but what if you live in like siberia ? You don't really have access to a lot of medicine there , right ?

So god would have to understand that if , if these states are important which we've already talked about clearly they are for some reason right , you know , if they're as important as we think they are , then there's got to be something endogenously we can do , and of course , that makes sense with the breath and other things as well . Darkness can do it .

Yeah , um , you know , I love all that , of course . Like , say , I think the breath and I'm similar I've never had 5meo , but I've done an nmdmt where I've smoked that and um , it's definitely a little it's different . I think the difference for me is , or my experience with it , was that I say the breath comes on gently , subtle , where that is .

You smoke it and all of a sudden you're like there's , I see fractals . I hit , one more hit and all of a sudden I'm gone , right . So it's just a different , it's just a different cadence , right .

So it's like the , the , you know the breath work is a slow , you know , come on , it probably takes 15 minutes of breathing until then you realize you're just kind of like all of a sudden not there and I say you just kind of kind of drift away of your consciousness and you go to this other place where , dmt , you're there and all of a sudden you hit

something and you're like halfway gone . Take second hit and you're completely gone within a minute , right . So just different . You know see different experiences in that sense of the , the breath is the , the gentler experience , right ? It's going to give you a more gentle , um , you know , in and in and out of that , deeper experience .

So I always recommend people um , talk , you know , try , breath work . If they're looking for some alternate experiences , I would say , hey , start with your breath . And or , just , you know , start there .

Because I feel like that is the safest , like , say , most accessible place , that if you're living in siberia , it doesn't matter where you're living , if you can access , if you're breathing , you can access altered states yeah , yeah , it makes perfect sense , you know .

I'm grateful I had it . But but at least 5meo felt smoother than nn . Whenever I've tried nn , it tightens the back of my head up so hard and I immediately almost get a migraine almost every time I have no why , I don't know what that means energetically . But 5MEO didn't do that , but NN does , and so , like I did it a couple of times .

I don't think I ever like fully blasted off Because I love psychedelic states Like I'll eat a bunch of mushrooms , I'll do LSD , etc . But there was a feeling , even like the know , the teenage type voices in me that are usually pushing me to want to go extreme when I hit , and then they were all like nah , man , this is not the droid you're looking for .

So it was interesting to have all my parts and cahoots with one another , being like , yeah , no , there's nothing we're getting from this . I'm like , all right , that was interesting because you know , again , you , you hear about psychedelics and you think like , oh , I , I'm going to enjoy DMT or I got to try it .

You know , and it was very interesting to realize , man not a huge fan of just smoking it like that and or their intuitive spirit .

And the times I do follow it , it's it's undefeated man . I don't feel like I've really done anything . It's never led me in a way , a place where it's like not the place . I want to be right , you ain't in the moment .

It may not be like what the hell is that or what is this , but afterwards , like , say , connecting the dots , looking backwards , you know it's always easy , but the uh , the intuitive decision making , that's . That's one of the crucial things I think you know , building out your intuitive decision making .

But that requires a clear channel , which is what we'll be Like . Are you ? Are your veils open , like we were talking about earlier , or you're ? Are they hiding things from yourself ? Are they hiding your true inner traumas and thoughts and feelings ?

, um , I don't know what to call them like very like old school medicine I guess you could call it , not like the new age , even lsd and whatnot but they all have a dieta protocol that goes along with it .

You know , and I think that's by design and you got to think about , when those traditions were made , they weren't eating cheetos and drinking coca , coca-cola and there was still the need to detox , right ? So you know , again , I think these days , the dieta aspect and slash like just living your whole life as a diet .

So that's kind of how I look at it of like you know , yeah , there are certain things I'm not going to do every day , necessarily like fast every day , but if I can always be this close to being ceremony ready , then to me that's how I'd wish to live my life , because , again , I feel really good when I know that my health is on point , my emotional health

is on point , my mindset is on point , my connection to spirit is on point , and to me personally and it's been interesting because I've talked to a lot of people about this and you know again , like perfect evidence that not everyone's the same .

But like for me , like between my girlfriend and I , for instance , you know , if she , you know , we talked about going to Italy , we're going to Italy next May , and she's like I'll eat whatever pasta and whatever , and I'm like I'll eat whatever is going to make me feel good , you know .

So like there's a difference there , right , like she'll , she'll eat things that maybe won't make her feel good , but because it makes her soul feel so good she may actually be able to alchemize and it's fine , right , whereas for me it's a little bit different .

Like I need to know the food I'm eating is high quality and like not gluten , anything like that , in order to feel really good around it .

That's what I've noticed about drugs and placebo and I say you go through you know , talking about mdma therapy and all these different trials . It's like how do you do placebo for psychedelics ? I mean , that's the thing . We have a conversation with people that are trying to figure out the next how to get these things legalized and how do we do trials .

It's like there's no placebo . You either know you have a fucking psychedelic experience or you don't . And if you haven't had one , if you don't know , then you didn't have one Right ?

So anyway , I think that's an interesting position because it's like , well , placebo is the strongest drug we've ever experienced and we've ever experienced and , oh yeah , you know there's no , there's no testing against that . It's really hard to test that against psychedelics because it's such a . Anyway , I think that's a .

The belief in the placebo is interesting , although I have heard going to italy and european countries eating pastas and everything is actually much healthier than here . So I've not been to europe in 15 years 12 , 15 years now , so I can't speak into that .

But I have friends and other people I've listened to that speak specifically about going to italy and other places and they eat not great and they actually lose weight . That's crazy , like yeah , I don't know . I think our food system's always a little bit messed up and a little bit , uh , convoluted at this point .

But I think what the point is taken is like if you don't , if it's not making you feel good , if you're not , are you eating for pleasure ? Are you eating for function ? And I think that's the whole thing . It's like most women eat for pleasure . My wife , she loves food , she's more of a foodie , right . She's more , they're more emotional .

It gives them that emotional connection . It feels good , it tastes good , it's like a whole experience . Nothing wrong with that , it's great , it's beautiful , it's one of the pleasures of life , right .

But if you do that balance or even having you know I usually I like 80-20 , but usually probably with food , for me it's 95-5 , in a sense of I'm eating well and intuitively 95% of the time and then 5% of the time you know , eating kind of whatever right or eating things that maybe make me more pleasurable . But for me I'm very same way , like for me .

You know , I , I honestly believe that psychedelics slash anything in our lives that allows us to feel a little more empowered , or maybe a lot more empowered , are really just training wheels , getting us to really settle in and integrate into the fact that we are the creators of our reality .

Right , like this whole thing that modern day humans , at least to my observation , don't really think about too often . Right , like , who am I ? What am I ? Where do I come from ? Where am I going ? What is my purpose ?

You know , I think that the machine , if you will some may call it the matrix , whatever you want to call it is very good at keeping us distracted into systems and things like that . But again , what does the psychedelic experience show you ? It shows you , like there's a lot more going on here than I think about very often .

But once you have it , you're more apt to think more about it . But I think , like you know , what I found is that there are definitely , with the consciousness shift of the planet happening currently , right now , there are a lot of things that myself , I'm sure you , many people I know now , are tapping into , that would seem otherworldly , paranormal , etc .

And I think the thing that we're going towards is just realizing hey , we really are creating our reality . That's not just some cool saying we say it's like no , literally , whatever you believe is what you'll become , period . There's no right or wrong , no duality , nothing .

I didn't write , I didn't draw , I didn't do music really , so I never really considered myself creative . I didn't write , I didn't draw , I didn't do music really , so I never really considered myself creative . I didn't consider myself a creator , right . But you know apple cheese , produce apples , right , creators , we're born from , you know creation , right .

So it's like we are by definition creators and let's say the , you know , the system we have is thoughts , beliefs , actions , reality , right , so we are literally creating our reality with every thought we have .

So that was the biggest takeaway I had from my ayahuasca experience is really an empowering hey , I'm a creator , I'm not a victim , I'm not this , I'm not a consumer . I can be a victim , I can be consumed , but I'm a creator , right , and I never had that frame for me .

I had that frame for other people , people who were special or people who were doing big things , but I was not that , that was not me . So that was actually the biggest shift that really took me out from being a consumer to a then creator was that realization that we are all creators . We're born of . You know , we have to become or we are creators .

Whether we realize it or we want to take that responsibility or not , we're creating our reality .

You know what's funny about it too , and these are like the things that dawn on you , that make you laugh so hard during psychedelic experiences , when you see yourself in the past saying I'm not a creator , and as you're saying , that you're realizing from this , you know , like third party perspective , like wow , I just created the world in which I wasn't a creator

. From what I said there , and that was me thinking I wasn't creating , right , like , literally even the breath you took to say that is a creation .

You know , and I think that you know , at least for my own personal world , because I , you know , grew up in the modern day world I thought that , like creatives were like you were saying , right , like , do I paint , do I write , do I play music ? And I do play music .

So I had kind of that side , but I was like I don't really even music , I didn't really see myself as an artist . I kind of still thought , like painting , that's , that's an artist , right , but at the same time , like we're all the artists of our own life .

Only some of us have actually taken accountability and ownership around what we're creating and what our artistry is , and we've started to consciously create and sometimes , oftentimes almost most of the time , when you accept that you are the creator , you have to take that ownership over .

Maybe some of the things you realize now we're not in alignment with who you are right now and I think that's where a lot of people get stuck is the inability or the fear of accepting that , because it means accepting all of that .

But you know , I remember when this happened to me , when I realized I can either just start taking accountability today or I can do it a year from now or five years from now or 10 years from now . But if I want to live an empowered life , that's the step that has to happen .

So I might as well just do it now and sit through whatever discomfort or suck or whatever it's going to be , because once I go through it then it won't sting as much , you know . And so that's what I found , yeah yeah , I think psychedelics help with that .

So , if there's things you don't like to be , give yourself that self-love like , hey , you're doing the best . Here's what I believe we're all doing the best we can with the information we have available and we have new information , we do better .

And so to give yourself that space , that , that that unconditional love of like , hey , you're doing the best you could . Now you're you're , you know you're beyond that . So so the whole point of that is I heard , is that the voice is like , well , this is a step I know I need to take Now . When am I going to take it ? Is it going to be now ?

That's scary , I'll put it off till tomorrow or next year or whatever . Right , and that's that's the whole journey of you know , taking ownership and or 100 percent responsibility for your reality and then creating and or consciously , like you mentioned , consciously creating them , because even once you realize you're a creator , we have so many unconscious patterns .

We have so many behaviors and they're all serving us to some degree . You know , 90 of our behaviors and our thoughts and our actions are unconscious and they're put that or they're that way for for a reason because we have so many things to do .

We have so many operations to do as a human being that if we had to think about all of them , we wouldn't you know , probably wouldn't be able to do them right , wouldn't do it very well . So you know , we breathe on our own , our heart beats on our own , our mind thinks on its own , but we can , we can stop and pause that and regulate right .

Okay , what are my thoughts coming in ? What do I truly believe ? What am I really ? Uh , what is that ? What is someone else's voice and what is my true like ? Say , what is my true , intuitive you know voice telling me ? So that's a whole process . It's extremely scary , myself included .

It was extremely scary to go through that because , you're right , you have to take responsibility for all the shit that you don't like and really take ownership of how to change it . And that's not an easy process . It's not like a one-time thing .

It's like a daily , consistent thing for years and years until you figure it out , or until you get yourself on the aligned path and create the actions that create the life and the reality that you want . And it doesn't happen quickly .

But like when you know you're not alone on this journey and that actually , like it can be a really fun journey of like everything you just said .

Right , because I think that for me , anyway , when I first became aware of this stuff about 10 years ago , what started happening was it was almost like when Kevin in Home Alone is like I made my family disappear , right , ultimate fear around his creation .

But then it was like it took a little while for me to be like , ah , I made my family disappear , right , like you know , settling into that empowered version of that . But what helped me a lot was having other people around me that I could tell were on a similar journey .

That's why I've loved athleticism , you know , music , any hobby , because even if you're an artist and I'm a carpenter , you know we can connect around the idea that it took a long time to become good at something that we really love , you know .

And so , like that common bond , especially when it comes to consciousness right and consciousness trans surfing right and consciousness transurfing right . That , I think , is for me , why I love doing what I do with community and things like that , and I know that's a lot of what you do .

You know with community as well , and I'd love I want to talk about that real quick and how that kind of came to be right . Like when did it stop being just like , hey , I want to have these experiences and I want to help my own trauma heal and things like that .

When did the call start opening up to bring this to a bigger stage and start supporting more people and really bringing this to the entire world ?

So during that time , we had an organization that we were doing daily Not daily , we were doing day-long events and weekend retreats for consumers . And then we shifted in end of 2015 , beginning of 2016 . We started working with teams and businesses .

We ended up working with Airbnb and Facebook and a bunch of other fast startups where we're doing team building and executive coaching and , you know , connecting their teams and , you know , improving communications and all that stuff . And in doing that work , I realized that that was the secret to the sauce of successful organizations and successful humans . Right .

Having that group or that container for people to open up into , to have the space to speak into , whatever , whatever's needed for their maximum healing and or maximum integration right , because we're always integrating , we're integrating thoughts , we're integrating experiences on a real-time basis , and the quicker we can do that , it speeds up our chemistry as a team , as

a unit , right ? So that's when I realized that was the secret to the sauce of success in a lot of ways for humans One human , two humans . Like I said , it starts getting complicated the more humans you put in one room or in one situation right .

So the more we can align people , the more we can open their hearts and get them connected to whatever the mission is or whatever it is that they're there for . That's a secret sauce that most organizations , most companies , most people haven't really experienced at that level .

So that was when I realized that that was needed , for that was not normal and it was something we were cultivating within these teams and these executives . That was just very it was creating exponential results . We'll say so speed forward . Then my daughter was going to be born in , uh , september 2018 .

I was exiting that company after five years and , uh , I didn't know what I was going to do .

My daily meditations were kind of , you know , keep bringing up that this work I was doing was needed , and I had friends in the plant medicine space which was , at that point , cbd and cannabis that were , um , you know , basically pretty jaded by by the industry and the people in it .

But , like I say , my previous experiences , the medicine or my intuition we'll say the voice of God kept telling me that this was everything I was doing was needed in this emerging space Great leadership , you know , connected teams , connected people , connected communities these are all needed for these plants and these compounds to really emerge quickly and with safety .

We've had 50 years of propaganda and it's going to take a little time to get that out Without some sort of major event which would be shocking . We talk about that slow drip . We need to have that slow drip in . We've basically been for the last five years , years cultivating community in the plant medicine space .

I'd say my intuition was very , very strong and very uh , specific that I needed to basically cultivate leaders , because leaders were going to take these plants and these compounds to the next level not not a business , not a product , but leaders who have great vision , who have great integrity , who have great speaking skills , who can communicate to the masses right .

So those are all things that I was already doing , not necessarily for plant medicines , but it was part of the work we were already doing .

So you know , just essentially , shifting industries and coming into the industry , while it seems easy and whatever , it's actually been quite challenging because we've had to educate the entire industry around what a mastermind is . You know why leadership development is even needed . You know around what a mastermind is , why leadership development's even needed .

A lot of these companies are having a hard time paying their bills , so they're not going to spend $10,000 to coach their team and build greater trust and communication . That's a type three problem . They're still at level one . So it's been very challenging , in a certain sense , to get major traction in this industry .

We've had some really great small wins here and there . We've had some really great , you know , small wins here and there . We've been cultivating . You know our connections in our community . We have almost 100 members now I think we have 93 members as of this morning . So it's really been a slow five-year journey , which is perfect .

Now , looking back , there's always frustrations . You wish things happened quicker . You wish things you know . This or this is my mentors . This is what I still live by . Everything's happening to my maximum advantage , whatever it is .

Whatever's happening , however , it's unfolding , it's there for your advantage and whatever you thought should be , whatever expectations I had , I release those . I say that's one of the things that psychedelics is really helping with as well Surrender .

I don't have to be right , I don't have to be , it doesn't have to be how I expected , but if I surrender whatever it currently is and that allows the wisdom to come through for , like , maybe this has happened for a reason , maybe this is the reason I needed to do this , or this is the the take , the timing or the cadence , or whatever it is .

So , you know , cultivating this community has been both fulfilling and rewarding , but also now it's starting to build momentum where we're getting strategic partnerships and we're getting the right people that are , uh , you know , getting no or taking notice to what we're doing .

And here's another thing we're getting people from outside the cannabis and the plant medicine industry who are coming in now , who have done this type of work , who know the importance of it , who see the impact it has on teams and businesses and organizations as a whole , and that are willing to then step up and be a part of that or to do their work with ,

with their teams , right , and those will be the ones that come through and make it outside . The other , the other side of this .

We can talk about the industry , but there's going to be a huge M and a over the next one to five years where all these small companies , a lot of these small companies are going to get gobbled up and if you don't have a strong leadership team with you know you could have a great business , you know whatever , but if you don't have a strong leadership team

then you're not going to make it . You're not going to have the staying power to go through all the stuff that you're going to need to go through over the next one to five years to really make it out . The other side in this industry .

So that's what we're really doing is really building up great leaders to take on the current challenges in the industry and to inspire others to do the same . People need an example , right , people need to have an example of what is working , what are other people doing , why are these people successful ?

And that's what we're here to do is to to really highlight the people who are doing great work , give them tools and or next level you know executive coaching and and you know team building tools and then you know , be the model and be the spotlight for other people , to kind of check out what you're doing and be inspired , inspirational for other executives and

leaders in the industry to say , hey , you know , if we all and this can be a collaborative thing . It's not . I'm better than you and I'm going to lead me my business past yours . It's like hey , like how can we all kind of lock arms and be great leaders together and support each other ? And that's essentially what we're doing .

We're creating this circular economy for our members to work together to do great , you know , work together to hold each other accountable , to create that trust that is needed for our industry . I've had 2,000 plus conversations and that's been the biggest sore point . Everyone just doesn't know who to trust . There's bad actors , there's bad players .

They're jaded from all the deals that come through and just don't work out . Or people say one thing and do another , or there's just so much volatility in this industry and , like I say , I won't go back to that thing . Everyone's doing the best they can with the information . They do certain things . They just don't have the operational experience potentially .

So building this community a long way of saying building this community has both been kind of a journey and both highly rewarding .

But I have conversations with people in this space all the time that if I was doing this for the money , I definitely wouldn't have came to this industry because I could charge two to three times more of what we're doing outside of this industry for industry and for places that have more revenues . People have more you know , success .

We'll say you know , I'm doing the same thing . Whether you're a , you know , five hundred thousand dollar valuation company or five hundred million dollar company , we do the same stuff . It doesn't really matter , but it's much more valuable to that five hundred million dollar company and it would pay me a lot more money .

And but my point being , if I was doing for the money , I wouldn't be here , I wouldn't be continuing to cultivate this community , because it's not about money . Money is important , it's part of the factor and we have to have money to make the system go , but it's not the driving factor . We talk about people , planet , profits , purpose .

So we're really looking for people who are on purpose and creating on purpose to collaborate with and to build our network .

But , through my observation , maybe we have a little bit difference of like . You know , I'm sure you feel a similar way of like all right , well , that's an interesting best you can do , but all right , but . But you know , it's interesting . You know about you talking about bringing leadership into this collaboration connection .

All of these things are really what I believe cannabis culture truly is right , like . Cannabis culture truly is about collaboration , helping each other grow , being able to connect with one another , have each other's backs , but also be able to , like , support each other right In every aspect of life .

That , to me , is really what cannabis culture is , and that's why I love what you do so much , because what you're doing is bringing cannabis culture back into the cannabis industry .

Which is part of the challenge of the cannabis industry is that a lot of the people that ended up becoming big in the world of cannabis were not the people in Northern California in the woods who understood cannabis culture right , because a lot of those people wouldn't resonate with all the red tape of the legal industry and things like that .

So a lot of the people that got into it were the people that were in finance or real estate or whatever , and that's not a bad thing objectively , but it's a thing . Or real estate or whatever , and that's not a bad thing objectively , but it's a thing . And it's almost like , if you know a bunch of real estate people started buying up muscle cars , right .

They'd be buying them on very different characteristics and different reasons than people that understood muscle cars right . They'd also be going to the events and treating people very differently than classic muscle car kind of people would do , right .

So , again , it's very similar to that and I think that there is a need for , I imagine , based on the belief we both have , that everyone's doing the best they can and always wants to do their best , which is a really good perspective to view humanity through .

And I wanted to comment on that because when you do it that way , it makes you see things a lot differently , you know , and so I wanted to call attention to that real quick . But I think what you're doing so beautifully is for people that are unaware what cannabis culture is because they just don't know , they weren't in this or whatever .

But now they're in the industry , they found a job there or they've started a business there .

You get to remind them of , like , the best part about being in this industry , which is that if you're in real estate , whatever , it's probably a lot more challenging to have that kind of culture , but with psychedelics and cannabis included , it's kind of like in the fine print . You know that's kind of what it is .

So I think it kind of bridges a gap in a way . So that's really cool .

So I'm that kind of bridge between two worlds right now , where I grew up in more traditional business , we'll say , and I've had , you know , my experience in other industries and I've been in this industry for five plus years now .

But you know , the uh , the bridge is needed for , like , say , the suits and the suits and birks , right , like the people who are traditional culture people and the people who are kind of coming in with money and traditional business .

And that's where there is always clashes , right , because everyone thinks they want to do it their way and I say there's a lot of ego both sides of the fence , right , I like to play that middle person and almost that was advocated like , hey , like , what are these people doing that you're not doing ?

Well , hey , what do these people do that you don't do well , right , like these people have structures and SOPs and processes and redundancies . Maybe you could learn from that . Hey , these people are connecting and , you know , open , transparent communication and collaborating . Maybe you guys could do that right .

So there's definitely it's not about meeting in the middle , but it's about that bridge of traditional business and culture of the plants , right , and I think there's a unique opportunity for us and you know our community , specifically to cultivate that and to bring that back and have the have that be .

It sounds weird to be like the middle of the road because we just kind of came from politics and all this , you know , left wing , right wing , all this bullshit , right , but really , truly to come together and like , have all that be aside , in the sense of like , hey , like we all like say we align our , our values and what we truly want to happen .

We're much more alike and much more aligned than we are different in that sense . So if we can really align our values and get everything uh , you know , everything else out of the way , I think there's so much for us to collaborate on , so much . You know more like , say way more likeness than there is difference .

So I think there's so many factions of the cannabis industry right now and I talk to people from all sides of it and they all love me because ?

Because I feel like maybe I'm a jerk and not everyone loves me , but in general , most people enjoy the sort of middle position that we're kind of trying to bring people back into Because they see the factions of it . They see the money , people and the growers . It's an unfortunate split we have right now .

But I think it's like anything , there's competing factions on each side because there's money involved and when there's money involved , there's always going to be competing factions , essentially . So we're here to do our best . Not everyone's going to get along , not everyone's going to sing Kumbaya . We're not going to have one big industry .

It's not going to be one big thing and what we want to do is have a group of people who are choosing differently , a group of people who are choosing that and , I don't know , maybe we can get , you know , 80 percent of the industry on there . I don't know .

I'm optimistic , I'm not delusional , thinking that we can ever change and have everyone come together and hold hands , but I think we can do where we can have a great percentage of the quote unquote industry people coming together , having more collaborative experiences . You know , this is where we're going to get back into hosting more larger events .

We've not hosted larger events . We've only hosted smaller events over the last couple of years , as we're kind of building out here . But you know , really bringing . That's one of the things I feel like I'm .

You know , between myself and my some of my business partners in the past , we're some of the best in the world to bring people together and create a container for people to connect , for people to open up , for people to share and collaborate . That's just not a natural state for most business people .

So when we can do that and we can bring people together like that , I think there's a healing and there's an awareness of more alike than different . I think that's the biggest thing .

We see people on social media and we only see this one thing or this one fact or this one idea and we think they're not like us or we think they're silly or stupid or whatever . Right , but the reality is like , say , I talked to a lot of people and we're all way more alike than we are different . And that's the .

That's what gives me hope , because I truly do connect with people , I truly talk to a lot of people and there's not this divide , there's not this big . You know , I don't see this huge gulf that is perpetuated in the media and all the other conversations . So for me that's an optimistic thing that we can .

We can be that bridge in that place , that island in the middle where people can then swim to , and then maybe we can say grow the island and we can maybe connect both , both the shores . I don't know .

But you know , the mainstream , to me these days its main job is to pull people apart right through media . Thirst traps , all these things right , just cause chaos is basically what the mainstream is all about , right , and I think that all of us deep down , want something different than that . Some of us are already consciously choosing that to differing degrees .

Some people are still completely unaware of that right and are buying into the whole like . That person said something that I don't like , so I'm going to get mad at them and all these things right .

But I think there's no coincidence that there's a high correlation right now between for me anyway at least the most publicity and the most attention the mainstream has ever had . Right , because there's social media now there's all these things . We're more distracted than ever in that way . So there's that happening .

But there's also this insane resurgence of psychedelic medicines happening at the same time . So it's almost like the deeper people get pulled into the mainstream right and believe in the machine , believe in politics , all these things , the deeper they're programmed into .

That is directly correlated to how long it will take them to come out of that through natural , conventional methods , right Therapy . You know things like that , not to knock those things right .

It's the same as like you could walk to California or you can take a plane , right and , and if you take a plane , there are things you're going to want to be aware of that aren't a risk when you're walking . But you know , as long as you're responsible , that juice is worth the squeeze right or everyone gets to make that decision .

So I think that with all that's happened over , let's say , the last 100 years of programming , patterning , whatever it's perfect , right .

Talk about divine timing , talk about everything being perfect just the way it is that all of a sudden , the mainstream media machine that put eyes on so many things and got us phones in our hands and whatever is now most , I see it working counterintuitively because they've forgotten that the most attractive thing to another human being is true joy .

So , as more people have started to access true joy through psychedelics or through whatever method . The plandemic was a whole interesting aspect of that . I think a lot of people it kind of backfired in a way . Maybe I don't know , but you know , I think it backfired .

A lot of people were realizing , like why have I been going to a job that I don't like for so many years , right ? So we see this happening and it's like , of course , psychedelic use is going to go up during those times because it's a polarity shift . You know , it's almost like they're so far down that way they need a quick ROI .

They need to know , like know there's a better tomorrow . And now I know what I'm working towards , I know like . You know , like I'm clicked back into , like being a human . Or , as Austin Powers would say , you get your mojo back , you know . So I really think those two things are linked in a symbiotic relationship .

It serves them , it serves their I'd say their ego to basically say , hey , this is right , this is the world I know , this is keeping , this is safe , this is you know . All the other things are unknown , and the unknown is extremely scary for the unconscious mind . It just wants to keep you safe , right .

So anytime there's unknown that it's just like that's , just that's . I can't go into that , that's a that's , that's a path too far because it's unknown . So I think it almost forced people into the unknown , because these people are actually lying . I can see they're literally lying to my face . They've said things that are completely untrue or exactly opposite .

So it actually forced a lot of people to take inventory of , like , who have I been listening to and what are they really saying and is it true ? And or maybe I should look at other resources and or get a more holistic view of a subject or a topic or whatever , right ? So I think the pandemic was brilliant in that sense .

I mean , of course we don't want people dying and you know that's a whole nother conversation , but in general , I think the pandemic was a net positive in a sense that it's actually bringing awareness for the collective and the masses that , you know , without a mass psychedelic dosing , I don't know that we could do it any faster , right ?

So you know , I always like say everything , looking back and connecting the dots . Everything's happening to our maximum advantage in that sense as well , where the pandemic and everything definitely expedited consciousness , you know , raising consciousness and having people aware of their own power and their ability to make decisions and choose to be a creator .

Well , think about , like the average individual , that's like you know , go , go going . They're completely like , let's say , asleep , and that's not a bad term , it just is what it is . Right . There was a point in my life where I totally was like it's not anything to be shameful over .

But you know , they've , they've bought it into the myths , right , and all these things , and then all of a sudden they get four years of alone time . You know , like it's like you can't , you can't run from it . You know like there's only so much movies you could watch before you ran out of shit to do to distract yourself .

So I feel like you know , aside from dosing the planet , which is not responsible , you know like I get why Timothy Leary got to a point where he was like just fucking dose the planet , like God sorted out . But obviously we know there's a lot of people that couldn't handle that .

But think about , like the next best thing , it would be something like a COVID , you know , and so again , like like a COVID , you know , and so again , like you said , I'm not supporting people dying , et cetera .

You know , I have a lot of very interesting beliefs and I will have to do another podcast about that , on terrain theory and things like that but it already happened , so we can't go back and change it .

All we can do now is try to find the most empowering story , the one that allows us to become the hero in this story and , uh , allows us to become inspired from it . You know , so that's what I do . You know , that's what you do too , right , like , looking back in hindsight , it's like , all right , this thing happened .

How can we see it through the most empowering lens and move forward ?

You know , and I think that's a a true you know quality of someone who's , you know , first of all spent time in the shadows , right , but also realized , to my understanding anyway , which I'm not saying is objective in nature , but for me , I've realized , like , just like you said , we are all one , we're all doing the best we can , we're all having a beautiful

experience in which there is no losing right , the belief or the the kind of like mainstream belief or the ego belief that this is all going to end , this is all going to die right , like once . All going to die right , like once . You've seen past that you may fall into the human .

You know , experiment a little bit from time to time , but you never truly forget it and I think once you see it from that angle , you're unwilling to hate , you're unwilling to . You know , do any of those things that maybe you used to do or maybe someone did before they went through that experience ? Yeah , do you ?

Oh yeah , like , do you call people an asshole . Then realize after oh yeah , okay , they're fine , you know it still happens , you're still human . But I think that's , I think that's built in by design to psychedelics .

Once you've had that , it's very hard to go back to what you're at before well , it's impossible to unsee things is what I've learned , psychedelics or otherwise .

There's no going back , like so you can try and hide or you can try and whatever , but then the seeds already in your brain and that you know , that alone , I think , is it's going to grow and , you know , create a divide if you're trying to create a reality that's not aligned with reality .

There's definitely a lot to unpack around the pandemic , around that , because I feel like that , definitely , like I say , that was an impetus for a lot of people to have and take on that challenge of dissecting their beliefs and dissecting their thoughts and or , like I say , to start their own journey .

I can't get over how many people I've talked to in the last year or two that had their first psychedelic experience during the pandemic . Yep , well , uh , you know , I talked to a guy .

He was , you know , producer for cnn and he had a psychedelic experience during the beginning of the pandemic and now he's doing stuff in psilocybin mushrooms like there's , just like you know , there's all sorts of stuff I hear every day .

Like you know , I'm an ex pfizer executive and you know , 25 years and had a psychedelic or had a heart attack and now , you know , got a psychedelic experience and now I'm fully 180 on . You know medicine and alternative , whatever right .

So it's like you can't point being , you can't unsee it once you've seen it , so you can be on the other path , or you can be on whatever journey you're on , but when you get disrupted , when you have something that changes you fundamentally , or you see something that's fundamentally changing your , your , you know reality , you can't unsee that and that's beautiful ,

because then that puts you on the path and that puts you in the awareness that you can no longer , you can no longer plead ignorance . You know your mind can no longer just you know keep you safe in that sense , which is probably uncomfortable , but it is .

You know there's no growth without you know there's no , there's no growth without you know there's no , there's no growth in comfort .

So , uh , you know being uncomfortable , being comfortable in the uncomfortable is actually one of the things that makes me , I think , different than a lot of people I grew up racing motocross , like say you talk about , you know ice exposure . I've done everything where physically , mentally , whatever , like you know . Of course I've never .

I'm sure there's more extreme things I could do , of course , but I put myself to the edge , into my mind and my physical body , to the edge of things where it's just different Once you've experienced it , once you've experienced that this is easy , like I'm sitting here , it's warm , I'm talking to amazing people , like there's , this is fucking amazing .

This is the best life ever , right . So when you can have that contrast and have that ability to know that I can go to the edge of my , you know where your power is right , it really kind of brings that personal power back to you . It's a beautiful practice and , like I said once , you can't unsee it .

So once the fire is lit , then it's just about how quickly you hold that candle and bring that candle out to the world and share it with others .

That would have been an interesting experience for sure . I mean , I truly believe that you know God creator , whatever you want to call that , is down for whatever experience possible .

Right , I think you know , obviously , based on what I know from Course , in Miracles and other things that I've read from my own subjective view of the world , you know , I realized that good and bad duality is not reality bought into from the ego's myth and this dream reality we live in .

But it is very interesting and fun , in a way , to watch all the different expressions of creator express itself and have experiences , you know .

And so to me , like the Pfizer executive is just as valuable in terms of experience as the monk , you know , because they're both teaching God more of the infiniteness of what it can be , you know , and that's the teaching God more of the infiniteness of what it can be . You know , and that's the role we all get to play .

And you know , that's how I like to look at it . Because , again , when you start you know my experience like when you start looking at , like a Bill Gates or Anthony Fauci or any of these kind of people as evil , well , again , that first of all creates duality .

Second of all , it pulls you down to where you think they're bringing you , but now you're pulling yourself there . So I've just realized over time , like I can have discernment , like not my flavor of ice cream , not my people , not the droids I'm looking for , but I'm going to wish them the best because it's the golden rule , right ?

Like , how would I'm going to wish them the best ? Because it's the golden rule , right ? Like , how would I want people to treat me ? How would I want me to treat me with respect and you know , good natured intent ? So , yeah , it's interesting , but definitely , psychedelics have taught me a lot about that .

know , uh , you don't . I don't personally have fondness for people like bill gates or anthony pouch , as you mentioned , but do I think they're doing evil things ? I don't think they truly are , man , I really don't . I don't think they're evil people .

You know , we people think , you know the doctor evils , you know back here , like plotting and planning , I literally think they're just driven by things that are making them appear evil driven by money , driven by power , driven by influence , right , these are all things that every man , specifically men , want , and so I can't say that they're evil .

That's not an evil thing to desire those things , but it's's an evil potentially to to take it beyond and or to to to impact people in a way that you know I think is potentially negative . But either way , I don't think they're evil people , right ? That whole divide of like they're bad and I'm good , like , get off your your high horse on that .

I'm definitely . You know , I have essence of bad . I'm sure I have essence of things that people think about evil , but essence of people that don't align with whatever I think or do or say , right . So , yeah , I think that's an interesting Another interesting conversation , because that's a whole topic around how we view people .

Because here's the thing , how we , how this happens with my kids , how I expect them to view , or how I , how I kind of the energy in which I hold them In they essentially could try , they , they want to meet that , yeah , I don't . They don't see that and say , oh , I want to meet that .

They don't see that and say , oh , I want to be the opposite , especially when it's good , like they want to feel good or they want to be seen as good , like people want that . So when we see them as evil , it's almost like people feel that energy like , well , I'm just going to do whatever anyway , because that person doesn't matter , right .

But if you see them , and you am , I have done something , you know , out of alignment or whatever , right . But if we automatically think that they're evil and put that duality on them , then it's automatically , you know , separating us and there's no connection and there's no bridge , as we were talking about earlier being that bridge .

I read them all . This is when I noticed there was a difference to whatever he was writing in there . I've loved a lot of authors , read a lot of books . Never in my life have I gone through four books in a week-long period , never , never in my life . I just could not put them down .

So there was obviously an intuitive hit of like all right , something in here is definitely worth reading and it's based on A Course in Miracles .

I won't go into the whole thing , but basically they talk about how , just like Buddhism or any of these non-dualistic practices that were made in the dualistic teachings thereafter thereafter , the people that created them passed away but or were killed , actually in most cases .

But you know again , like how any of these practices talk about is that there's only one dreamer here . You know god's dreaming and there's one dreamer and the ego's myth right , the ego's illusion is to make us think there's eight billion different dreamers and all these separate things and everything is , you know , duality and you know dualistic .

But at the end of the day , yeah yeah , exactly .

And so , like you know , again , if I look out there and I'm like I don't like him or her , I don't like that , or I hate this or I , you know xyz thing , right , what I'm really saying is there's a part of me I don't like , and to the degree that I believe that parts of me are unlikable or bad or any of these like irredeemable type qualities , is the

degree to which , first of all , I have a record of my own shadow , like you said . Like , where is that inside of me ? You know , like , because we all have . I mean , if you come from oneness , then even in the illusion of somethingness , you are still in oneness .

So anything you see in the dream of somethingness is actually relevant to your oneness , you know .

So it is very interesting to think about that and , you know , I wouldn't say it's an easy way to look at the world , right , very challenging , but so rewarding , so fulfilling , and that , to me , is the mission I'm working towards more and more every day now is just , you know , having discernment .

I think that's a essential piece of the puzzle here in life , right , I'm not saying just go round to everyone with guns or whoever and hug them and be like you're God , I see you right .

There's obviously , you know , some things to be aware of , but , but using discernment and not thinking about it after that , not holding disdain , just saying , nope , that's not my person right now , and if they change , cool .

But you know , no , nope , it's not personal , but I'm just not going to give that attention , you know , and I think that's also part of creating a reality , right ? Just like what you give attention , energy flows to . What do they tell you in school about bullies ? The more attention you give them , good or bad , the more they're going to keep doing it .

No-transcript . It's like no , I don't , though , because I actually haven't known what's been on there for years and nothing has changed my life . So when you start seeing that in one area , how you do anything is like take out every possible thing I can , that's a distraction and just focus on the reality .

I want to , you know , because , no matter how much I might think , based on what I've heard , that I can affect something overseas , unless I actually go over there myself , I don't really know if I am , you know .

So , when I can , when I can save and or , you know , focus my energy on things that are impactful both in my life and the people around me , that is , I think , embodiment in the sense of like we're not spending and wasting our time yelling at people online about things that don't matter , or like , say , complaining or yelling into the .

You know , the ether of this should change , and I'm not saying I think , I think everyone , like , say everyone's on a different part of their journey .

I'm 40 , 41 years old now , so , like , I feel like maybe at 21 , that's your , your action is to go out and march in the streets or to do whatever right , to take up an injustice or something , and that's not going to change world or that's not going to really change the thing .

It can be a part of the equation , but , you know , having , let's say , creating businesses or aligning incentives for organizations or doing things that change the you know the actions of individuals that moves the needle , and that's one of the reasons we exist .

In the sense , the goal of Inner Circle is to like , say , to bring leaders of high integrity together , but also to awaken leaders of other industries .

So I have a book coming out next year called Elevated Executive and it'll be around that and where we're opening up these doors to other industries or other leaders whether it be government , finance , media , whatever to come in and have these transformational leadership experiences , because I think we need great leadership in this next iteration of our , our world and

our , our journey here , and I think psychedelic leadership can be a portion of that . And that's not to say I think all leaders should take psychedelics .

I think that would be an interesting conversation if we were there , but I don't think that's going to happen and I don't think , you know , when we say stuff like that , people kind of look at you silly and it kind of makes us as an industry look silly because it's like , well , everyone doesn't need to do psychedelics , but the right people or the people who

are called to , they're the people who we can assist . And I say I can yell at Bill Gates for not doing psychedelics , or I can enroll the people who are excited or interested in doing psychedelics and change their vision , their journey and then see them ripple out .

Right Now , of course , bill , bill's gonna have a bigger ripple because he's got more influence , he's got more resources , he's got all this .

And I'm not saying we shouldn't talk to Bill or have him be part of the conversation , but to say like , say , to have your action to be , you know , complaining and yelling and victim , right , it's either you're either a victim or you're a creator in empowered mode , and there's no in between .

So you're either you know yelling and being victim , or you're empowered and you're creating . So of course there's times when we , you know , even say we're all human , we all lash out , we all have emotions , and it happens . But the less time we spent there and the more time we're in empowered mode , that's where you can make the ripples .

As he went to go teach A Course in Miracles and share with people that two ascended masters showed up on his couch and started teaching him all this stuff and share with people . That two ascended masters showed up on his couch and started teaching him all this stuff . Because he's like , this is awkward .

And he was talking about how one of the other teachers from A Course in Miracles that he became friends with told him Gary , there's two types of people your people and not your people . He's like , why would you ever waste time with not your people when you could be spending it with the people that are your people ?

And maybe over time , some of the people that weren't your people become your people , but the people that aren't your people are someone else's person . So it all works out . It all works out , and I think in that respect , we can't have kumbaya .

I think this idea that so long as we just focus on being radically authentic ourselves , we will bring in the people that are resonating with that and it will all work symbiotically . So I fully support that man , fully support it . It's cool stuff .

The more magnetic you are , the more positive , attractive things you're doing in the world , the more people are going to be your people . People want to be around good people who are doing things that are impactful , who have great energy , who are positive and insightful and inspiring as leaders . Everyone wants that . No one doesn't want that .

So I've never been around Bill Gates . Maybe he's extremely inspiring . Maybe that's how he gets people to come around him . I don't know . I mean , I can learn from him . I'm open , but I think there's , you know , the point being the reality we're creating in that magnetism is really . You know how we build and how we really attract people .

As opposed to yelling at other people and saying you should change and come join us , you're like , no , I'm doing this , and then it's attracting . It's like he's putting out the lighthouse and saying , hey , who else wants to join us ?

Like , okay , yeah , this is you know , because I talk to people from all over the world and whatever . Like yeah , like I have it pretty good here , in a sense of you know , this is you know because I talk to people from all over the world and whatever .

Like , yeah , like I have a pretty good year , in a sense of you know , we're living in the best time in recorded history . And you know , like I say I want for almost nothing and you know , it's a really beautiful , interesting time to be alive .

I'm happy that I chose this this time to incarnate and be a part of this , this journey , because I feel like this is a pretty special time to be alive . You know , born pre-internet but , uh , you know early enough to where we're still adopting and taking technologies and really expanding .

And you know , the world will be a different place in 50 or a hundred years and if we were born now or 50 years from now , we would have a whole , obviously different experience . So I'm very thankful for the the time that I was born .

It was like you could just go on the internet on like a shitty old phone . So it really wasn't until I was around 19 or 20 that I got my first like Android , like smart smartphone where you could play words of friends and things like that . And I'm very grateful because I see how quickly that took over an entire generation .

And , of course , like it is awesome . I mean , technology is great , let's be real , but it's almost like getting given ayahuasca with no instructions . You know , it's like some people . There were some casualties out of that For sure ?

Go to innercirclebiz , just like it sounds . Check out the stuff we're doing here at Inner Circle .

If you're in the plant medicine community , if you're either wanting to start a business or you're already operating a business and this conversation space so that we can collaborate , connect and , like I say , bring leaders of high integrity together to do the great work and great education that is needed to really bring these compounds to the masses with safety and

with efficacy and , you know , with the right people .

Like I say , I think the leadership portion of it is not to go unnoticed and I think that's going to be the one of the main things we look back on and say that you know , we had some great leaders that brought this to the media , to the government , and not to say we don't have some great leaders right now . We do , we have some great leaders .

We need more . We just need more . The long and the short of it is that I talk to a lot of people outside of our industry and no one really looks at us very fondly .

Everyone kind of looks at us as glorified drug dealers and the reality of it is it kind of is , you know , we kind of came out of the black market and we're figuring it out right now , and it's not a bad thing , it just is what it is Like .

Say , these compounds were shunned for so long that you know we have to come out of the shadows and the people are saying people are doing the best they can with the information they have available , no-transcript way of introducing cannabis into these plant medicines to people , like I say , you know , I talk to people about cannabis all the time and you know 80%

of sales go to 20% of the consumers and they're just smoking weed all day , which is , you know , not here judging . But the next level of business and growth for cannabis is probably not going to come from flour and people smoking it , right ? So what are ?

You know drinks and tinctures and and you know nano emulsive things and in different you know whatever , right , there's different technologies that we can whatever .

So that's what we're interested in , like how can we get it to the masses in a way that is , you know , meeting them where they're at , because people , a lot of people , don't want to smoke Myself included . I don't like smoke . It doesn't feel healthy . We're talking about peak health and peak performance or whatever .

The traditional method of smoking cannabis is not necessarily the healthiest For me . We're always looking for operators and entrepreneurs out there who are changing the way we look at things and maybe changing the way we intake these compounds . If you're out there and you're in the space and growing , reach out .

Like I say , it doesn't have to be , you don't have to be a solopreneur , you don't have to do it on your own . There's definitely a lot of people out here doing it together and collaborating and communicating and masterminding together .

So if you're out there and you're one of them , reach out to me , mattedinnercirclebiz , or check me out on LinkedIn and let's talk .

What is the one piece of advice you would offer these people to allow them to use the proper discernment in knowing whether or not these medicines are right for them right now , at this moment in their life ?

I mean it's about educators Like who do you know in your life that knows about these compounds that you can talk to ? And if you can't talk to one , find someone like Ryan or myself or someone in the industry that you can even just , you know , ask some questions . You know what we talk about is start slow or start low and go slow , right .

So low dosages , slow , slow onsets . You know , don't take heroic doses . And you know , be by yourself or do something silly . You know harm reduction is a real thing , right Set and setting your mindset , going in the setting , in what you're doing it .

These are all things we've talked about in psychedelic community for years , but it's , there's a reason we talk about it , because they are important and they do matter . So if you're new to this and you're unsure , I would just say you know you need to talk to somebody .

Talk to somebody who knows what they're talking about , cause here's the thing you don't know what you don't know , as you mentioned . So it's really about uncovering . You know and here's the thing I like to talk to people , or tell people about microdosing , you know , or breathwork , what we talked about earlier .

If you're really wanting to start altered states , start with some breathwork , start some breathing , but I know past that microdosing is a good start . And then , like , say , if you're really wanting to have a deeper transformational journey , make sure you really seek out someone who who's you know , knows what they're doing .

Like , say , we have some , we have a , uh , you know some people in our community that do that , but that's not necessarily , you know , our main thing .

Like we don't have , you know , thousands of facilitators around the world , but there are , you know I can't off the top of my head , I can't tell you one of the , any of the websites , but there are websites out there where you can find facilitators and you can get connected to people .

Um , yeah , just connect with people that know what they're talking about or been in the space or have the uh , the experience of using psychedelics .

Because here's what I've realized everyone in that space not everyone , most people in that space are open and willing and want to talk about it , because they realize that most people don't have that space or don't have that knowledge right and they want to share .

We all want to share knowledge , especially when we're feeling good and they can be looked at as an authority . People want to share their knowledge .

So take advantage of that and say you know and go and ask people about their psychedelic experience or about how they facilitate or whatever , and there's a lot of people will give you like a 30 minute consultation around you know , potentially using psychedelics for free , so you can have a 30 minute conversation with somebody who's a facilitator or you know who's

already using these medicines that you can say what is your diet leading up to it or what's the best way to kind of dip my toes in microdosing or otherwise . Yeah , there's a lot of ways you can get started , but it's all about education , right ?

It's about wisdom and , like I say , cultivating wisdom is a beautiful thing and we can share that and get people on that path . That's the goal .

At the end of the day , I'm an entrepreneur . I would never want to do this alone , right ? Not only is it harder , but it's way less fun . So make sure you go check that out , dive into his world and wherever you guys in the world . As always , I hope you're having the best day ever , and may the source be with you . Peace for now .