Ep. 183: From The Depths Of Despair To A Triumphant Return Through Psychedelics (feat. Ryan Graves)

On this One Time on Psychedelics If you've been listening to me long enough now , you've probably heard me say before that pain in our lives can be a teacher that educates us on what is either in or out of alignment with our soul's mission in life .

For years , I have been fascinated by this concept because it allows pain , which is something that many of us , including myself for many years , write off as nothing more than an annoyance , to be contextualized as something positive in our lives , and our ability to see all of life as happening quote unquote for us rather than quote unquote to us is our ability to

truly become the heroes we've been patiently waiting for .

Today's guest on the show is a dear brother , a client and someone with such an incredible story , rife with challenges and opportunities alike , that when we chatted about the show , I knew I wanted to have him on to give you all a real look at how psychedelics and psychedelic-assisted therapies can save someone's life and allow them to rise into the best versions of

themselves , from addiction to losing family members , falling into the depths of despair and then rising like a phoenix from the ashes . This man has seen it all , and to witness him show up for himself , his family and the world at large over the past six months of knowing him has been nothing short of profound . Over this time , we've known each other .

I am really excited for you to all hear this one , as every time I hear his story , it inspires me , and my hope is that you all leave this episode feeling full of hope , inspiration and motivation to create the best life you possibly can . So please help me in welcoming my brother , ryan Graves , to the show .

Ryan Graves , my brother Dude , I am so excited to be with you today .

As I mentioned in the intro for all you guys listening Ryan and I met each other through the Instagram world , through the online world , and we started doing some work together and real quickly I realized this guy is an absolute fucking unit , the things that he has been able to do with regards to what is quasi known as self-development .

But , as we talk about today and you guys will hear you know a lot of the things that he seems to be very good at . Now again , I don't know what you think about this , ryan , but I perceive you as being very good at having very challenging , hard conversations with people close to you and really protecting your own boundaries .

We're going to get into all that stuff because all that is pertinent to anyone looking to do psychedelics , because this is what they open up . But before we dive into all that juiciness man , I want to create some context for the listeners . How did you first get interested in psychedelic medicines ? How did they come into your life ?

Were you someone that you know just bought the just say no campaigns early on in your life ? Did you used to laugh at DARE class when you went through it , like , how did this all start for you , man ?

I was a heavy drinker and I couldn't stop , Went to rehab , tried everything and actually to make a very long story short , after two years of sobriety I relapsed on alcohol .

I did this in front of my brother who had done ayahuasca before and while he saw the amount of pain that I was in , he sort of had this calling that hey , this guy , my brother Ryan , needs to do plant medicine .

So that was sort of the beginning of my journey and it felt like the next day when he approached me and told me about it , it actually felt good that there was someone on my team looking to help me .

So I was like , yeah , whatever , Um , and it was a good thing that I was so naive , going into that experience , because if I know what have known going into it , I never would have done it . At the same time it was a . It was the experience that completely changed my life forever , so I look back on all of it with just profound gratitude .

You know it's so cool too because I imagine for many listeners you know maybe you guys have family members that you feel would really benefit from a psychedelic experience but at the same time , what you showcased there is that for a lot of people and this is very important for everyone listening to here , because if you're like me , you've probably fallen into this

before Someone's pain has to get to a point where the fear of staying the same outweighs the fear of change . And so when you were in the throes of alcohol addiction , got sober , relapsed , and then you had this information presented to you , it felt like , well , what's the best that could happen here ? Right , like I'm already in hell .

So I'm not afraid of necessarily what someone in our family members or friend groups that has not experienced the type of hell may be really afraid about , right , and so it's really important to kind of like put a spotlight on .

You know what it took for you to be open to that and , like you said , you had no idea what to expect , right , but you knew that the pain you were already living in it couldn't get worse than that . You know , and you know I'm curious for you , like , what was that ayahuasca experience like for you , man ?

Like , first of all , let's get into the like nuts and bolts first , did you go to a jungle to do it ? Did you do it local ? We'll start there and then we'll dive into like , what the actual experience was and if you're open to sharing what came out in there maybe how you felt after all those kind of things too That'd be great .

It was Western Canada . A lot of people were there . It was a four-night retreat but I only did the last two because I was on the wait list and you know , I had got an OUI in Maine , so I didn't know whether or not I was even going to be let into Canada . So I had that going on as well . So it was just it was .

I didn't know what was going to happen and the experience itself was , like I already said , life-changing . And you know tell you a little bit about the experience .

You know , for me , you know , by the end of it and this , this happens with every plant medicine I do it's like I'm really nervous and there's all these feelings that come up the week before the day of . But once you get to the the , the right before the ceremony starts , I always had this calmness come over me , that's .

and I remember experiencing that like I'm , this is okay , this is what I'm supposed to be doing , but for me I had to drink a lot of it because it wasn't it wasn't hitting me , you know , and I did what I had to do .

So it took a while , but when it started it was just beautiful display of cartoon colors bouncing and it said the word patience and I knew it wanted me to be patient , not just in that , but in my life . I knew I had a lot of work to do in the healing , so just be patient .

So it was this beautiful welcome , like welcome to this real world , and I saw like the world presence , like bouncing around . I was like giggling and laughing and I thought it was like I found it , you know . And then I got talking to my older brother and we were having a really funny conversation , so that's like how it began .

But then my brother and I , during this experience , like our eyes caught each other like and we looked at each other in the eye and I realized in that instance how much pain that we had gone through in our lives and I just started fucking crying and I didn't , I couldn't , I couldn't even . I couldn't stop . I couldn't stop and this went on for 30 minutes .

So , more than anything , ayahuasca taught me how to cry , because I held everything in for so long .

You know , my , me , my brother and I had lost uh , at that point , a little brother named connor , and I was only two years before this experience , you know , and I had never grieved his death , and I , I didn't , I didn't even know there was such a thing as grieving , you know , I just tried to hold all that . She didn't cry .

What the fuck you talking about ? So that , really , it really changed my life . You know , I always described my life before like I was living in a toilet bowl full of shit , piss and vomit , and then , like after I drank ayahuasca and like purge , you know , I just came out breathing fucking fresh air for the first time in my entire life .

So it was , it's a life-changing experience . I mean , there's a lot more to it , but in a nutshell , that's that's what I got out of it . And , you know , although I went back to alcohol one more time , it I had a different relation . It wasn't something I was interested in anymore .

What's the personality , the spirit of each one ? And aya is revered , you know , in so many different types of people , so many different cultures , for its not only psychedelic properties but more so the healing properties . And you know , it's funny what you mentioned about learning how to cry again through ayahuasca , because that's what solo seven did for me .

You know , my dad passed . I didn't grieve his death , I thought that I could just keep on , go , go , going and eventually I burned out , you know , from trying to keep my nervous system at like a peak , fucking red line level , to not have to deal with any of the stuff underneath the surface .

And I didn't go into that experience with the psilocybin , that time , expecting to cry intentionally , like you know , making an intention to cry . I just went in to fuck around and find out like , oh , let's do another 10 gram mushroom tea and see what happens , just like I had done many other times before .

But what happened differently this time was that I had done five meo dmt like two weeks prior or a week prior , and I didn't know about reactivation , like that's a whole thing . So when we did this tea it hit us like 10 times harder than anything I had ever felt before and it just fucking cracked .

And that's one of the things I've been told from quite a few people that I've worked with , mentors and whatnot , is that you know , every ego is strong .

It's kind of its goal , right , is to overwhelm your experience , but mine seems to be very good at staying in control , and so that was the first real time I had experienced an ego death and it was fucking beautiful man . And once you go through an experience like that , you know your life changes forever .

And I'm not going to say that I'm an expert crier at this point , but I can get it to come out in the sober state now , and Scylla 7 really is what taught me that .

And , knowing some of your story that the listeners don't know yet , you know at what point after that , like because you lost your older brother too , correct sometime after your brothers , uh , two younger brothers .

Not in his death , but I'm saying like in you healing through that , like what was different from the time your first younger brother died or the second younger brother .

I'm just curious if there are any differences that you can call forth well , there's , uh , it's a long story , it's a long yeah , we got time I don't even know how I would answer that , but I'll do my best here .

That's the most privileged thing that I think I had in my life , aside from my wife and my kids . Yeah , that's how we were able to get to that point before he passed away . But we had spent , you know , the year and a half before he died really trying to help him . He came and lived with my wife and I and our kids .

We took care of him and we were feeding him . Psychedelics . We got him off . You know he was a heroin guy and you know math and he was sober , with us doing a great job .

So you know , psychedelics played a huge role in all of this because he actually , before he passed away , he went and did ibogaine and went and did iboga with me and my wife and that was kind of the plan to like get him sober .

He just didn't get the support he needed when he got back , and that's kind of why I'm inspired to learn so much more about psychedelic healing and creating , hopefully in the future , places for people like my brother , um , these addicts that are going running to Ibogaine and Iboga to have a place to go afterwards to just , you know , before they get thrown back

in the real world .

And you know I had a really . He died in March . I had a really tough summer . My wife and I barely made it and I actually got my brain scanned because I was so fucked up and I'm not ashamed to admit this , it was because of post-traumatic stress . That's what the brain scan revealed .

And this goes back to when I was 15 , I saw something really traumatic and it all ties to my I saw someone else die . So it kind of tied together . Yeah , dude , this is what I had to go through and through that experience you know . Back to your question about what kind of how did psychedelics help ? I started microdosing in October and writing about it .

So I actually wrote a book and ended up being a book called the Mushroom Chronicles . And it was just me microdosing mushrooms for three cycles three , four week cycles , and it was the most gruesome experience of my life because I had to look at myself in the mirror and really admit things that I wasn't ready to admit .

And , to be honest with you , it wasn't until I looked myself in the mirror and realized that I was the fucking problem , that everything changed and I had to go dig , keep digging , deep diving . Then there it was . Oh , it's you , you know , and then I , you know , my wife .

That's when my wife and I really changed , you know , and honestly too , through that , through that experience of bico dosing , like the impossible happened .

My wife and I had to go through maddening fertility treatment to have our first three kids and somehow , after my brother passed away , four or five months later , she started having periods for the first time in her life and , uh , she got pregnant , um , during the so , and once the baby came , like , everything changed and my wife and I have been spectacular and

the PTSD that I experienced is pretty much healed . I mean , I still it still haunts me from now on , but I can recognize it . Oh , okay , and this is , this is going to happen for the next couple hours , but not days , not weeks , like it used to haunt me . So I think you know again , psychedelics win again , right ?

that it all changes when you change right and really by changing , because I think that term has a certain you know je ne sais quoi to it to say lack of a better term . But but basically , you know , by changing I mean healing yourself , healing your relationship with yourself .

You know , like you , you know it was in those mushroom ceremonies that you were able to really realize like , oh wow , this is a me thing , right , and I've been getting really into A Course in Miracles and also this book called the Disappearance of the Universe .

What's really amazing about that book is that , you know , I've been a spiritual seeker for many years , just , you know , ever curious about the unknown . This book has put it together in a really powerful way for me in realizing that when we forgive ourselves , we're not forgiving what happened , we're forgiving what never actually happened .

And that can sound like a weird paradoxical truth , but let me explain it a little bit because I imagine you'll resonate with it . It's that we are living in an illusion .

Right , think of it this way If you have a dream , right , and you wake up and that dream was really real , like you can be a little shook up from it , but you know in your head like it was a dream .

Now again , like you know , when you start learning about union , dream analogies and things like that , or dream , you know kind of escaping and things like that , you know obviously you can think about your dream a little more real , but at the same time you still know it's a dream . Well , what if life was the same thing ? What if all of this was a dream ?

And it was thought up from the original sin quote unquote which is not actually a sin , it's more like and sin is a weird term , it's been bastardized , right , sin just really means an error , right , like error , like whoops , you went the wrong way , type thing . But basically it was the original thought form that started . What if I was separate from God ?

What if God actually doesn't like me ? I need to get away from God . And so we created this illusion that anyone you see in this illusion is really just you as a mirror mirroring back something that is inside of you , and so that's why that statement you said , like when I was able to look in the mirror and see that I was the problem .

Well , also , what I imagine you realize is that if you're the problem , you're also the solution , and I think a lot of people when they think about shadow work or any of these kind of things , they just see it from the negative , like on the problem , right , but and yes , like in a way , that's true , but you're also the solution , and that's what makes it

like 50 50 . And I'm curious for you , man , like when shift happened , like what changed in your life , or what has changed in your life since then ? I mean , you mentioned some things already , but what immediately comes to mind or heart with regards to when you stopped looking out there and started looking in here ? What changed in your life ?

You know like I'm not going to sit here and sugarcoat anything , there was a lot of shitty things that I went through in my life , you know . So I , but I but I was stuck in it , you know , and I and I was allowing it to , to bother me and allowing it to get me and allowing , allowing it to control me , you know .

So I think , when I recognize that and admitted to myself that I was a victim and like , instead of just trying to get everybody else to acknowledge it , when I said it to myself , I looked at myself in the mirror , everything changed and I and I cried , and I'm back to crying again and I was able to .

That's how I experienced that forgiveness , you know , and I was able to . That's how I experienced that forgiveness , you know , and I was able to recognize that shit . Man , a lot of this stuff is not your fault , but we can't dwell on anymore . We got to move on , and that's how that's the solution . You get motivated and you pick yourself back up .

You know , because ultimately it's you . You know and and that's what I'm still learning this over and over and over again you know like it's every time that there's an issue that's always comes back to myself and it's always an easy way to forgive myself . And ultimately , more than anything , that's what these psychedelics do for all of us .

You know , for me especially , it's just teach you that there's a reason to not only forgive yourself . You can forgive others , because when you can forgive yourself , that's when you can start forgiving others , and sometimes it takes time . You can't just snap your fucking fingers and expect , ah , forgive them , like no , really good .

Like you said , you really get to dig in deep and you got to be patient and this is , this is something you got to feel . You know , and and that's again a cannabis psychedelics that's these , what these medicines have helped me do would be able to feel . Excuse me , these emotions .

Now , again , when I say that I'm not talking religion and things like that , I hope you guys can read between the lines that are listening . But but when you see yourself as the one son of god and that everyone is right , it doesn't mean like I'm the son of god and no one else is right , that's ego shit .

But more like , wow , this is all just god , right , and and also it's , it's actually not god in the way , right , because god didn't create this universe .

According to this book , anyway , that I've been reading , which is a really interesting paradoxical truth to what I've , you know , thought my whole life , it's like , no , god didn't create the universe , because if he did , why would he make people suffer and all these things , which is one of the main things people ask about religion , like , oh , if God's real , how

could he , you know , allow his children to suffer ? Well , he doesn't right . He's patiently awaiting us to heal ourselves through forgiveness and go back to him . You know and again , when I say him , I'm not talking about gender and things like that . I hope you guys understand that it would be a better term .

But you know , at the end of the day , when we are able to forgive ourselves and forgive the fact that we allowed those people to get under our skin , we forgive the fact of the reactions that we had as a result of believing what they were telling us or showing us . It starts allowing us to put that power back on ourselves .

And when the power is back on ourselves , we start to become a lighthouse for other people to charge their batteries off of . Hours . Back on ourselves , we start to become a lighthouse for other people to charge their batteries off of .

And that's what's so amazing about your journey , man , is that I know that you're taking all of this pain that you've gone through and you're transmuting it into a pleasure , right into being of service . And one of the ways that you know we both talked about you doing that is with a boga , and that's another medicine I have yet to sit with .

But I'm very curious . I haven't had too many people on here that have sat with a boga or Ibogaine and I'm curious for you what that experience was like , man , because I get asked a lot about a boga and I don't pretend to know anything about it Other than that it's a route other than that apparently lasts about 24 hours .

But a good buddy of mine has gone through quite a few different Ibogaine sessions and it changed his life and this is not a gentleman who does a lot of psychedelics .

He lived in Thailand for a while and , you know , was going through a lot of challenges with his mindset and a friend recommended Ibogaine and he did it and he was like I don't know if I'd ever do it again .

But after that he started serving and helping out , you know , being a volunteer and working with the shaman as a kind of like his right hand person , and he probably facilitated , I think , 250 or so sessions and he was like dude , I like again , he's he . That was his first psychedelic he ever did .

Which , what , a what , what one to get into right from the get go , yeah , but again like , I'm just curious to hear what your experience was like . That , you know , like was it ? A multiple night ceremony is a bogus something you only with once , every once in a while , like . Tell me what your experience was with that medicine .

So you know , I again , I guess backing up a little bit after I had done ayahuasca and I relapsed I was after that relapse .

But anyway , the this article is breaking down the differences between ayahuasca and iboga . And when I read that article , I mean when I read the iboga part , I mean it was just , it was a knowing . That was like I gotta go do this right , fucking now .

Uh , because it just said everything I knew and I knew , I just knew , I just knew , and I don't even know how to describe it . But before I even went it started , you know , the medicine was working in me already and I , I just I felt more confident , I just knew . So I went , even though it was the most terrifying experience of my life .

Again , I was like it was like two strings and I wrote a book about this . All of this called miraculous actually , and so I called it like two strings , like the ego and my and my soul , like fighting each other , like my ego , like don't go , don't go , and I was like I gotta to go .

I got to go and somehow I got down there and for me it was the same thing . I was terrified up to the experience and then , right before we got started you know I have journals . I read through it all the time , just like I was praying so much , and there was again a calmness that came over me right before we got started .

And yeah , the experience is 24 hours , man . You know , the first eight to twelve you're lying down on the mat and there's really loud booty music playing . That's a certain kind of music um that's kind of , you know , enhances the experience . It's beautiful , um , loud , and so that that's the challenging part .

But then when the sun comes up , you know you have the next day . It's called discovery day and you're still on the medicine all day long , but you can get up most of us can get up and move over around .

That's just kind of like where you just have a lot of discoveries , you know , and you're really learning a lot about your journey , really , and it's , you know , I've experienced , uh , I think , four iboga journeys and the four discovery days , the best days of my life .

You know , every time , uh , there's not much thought is going on , the only things coming in is just a direct download . You know , that's pretty much it . That's uh , that's nice , that's nice . But so , for me , my experience , and I went there to find the source of my pain , you know , because I wanted to stop drinking .

And I , when I stood up and you know , said my name and why I was there . That's what I said I'm here to stop drinking and end this cycle of addiction that's in my family . Because , cause I was there , you know , for my kids too .

You know , that was a big reason why I got started with all of this , because I didn't want my kids ever have to go through the shit that I was fucking going through and shit my brother's just going through . So , and man , you know it was , I spent the first two . It was very gentle .

I prayed and prayed and said , please be gentle , cause I was so terrified , you , because I was so terrified , you know , um , and it was very gentle for me , um , and I , you know , I spent the two or first two or three hours , forgiving myself for everything I did in my life .

Like I went it's like a slideshow , like and if I skip something about with it ? Now I forgot that fucking thing . So I had to do that . But once I get over , it was just like , just whatever I wanted , I would ask a question and I would get an answer . And it was , and that's so . That's how I ultimately found the source of my pain .

So I'm not ashamed to admit this either . This this tied back to when I was an infant . I was left alone in a crib , you know , in the dark . That was it . That was the source of my pain and that was why I was drinking .

And I learned that and I literally never even thought about drinking ever again and I was a compulsive like it's all I thought about , even in sobriety . After ayahuasca , like I said , those thoughts kind of faded and I quit caring about it . But it was like , once I get started , it was it was going to kill me , you know . So it's .

It was remarkable , the shift in my life and it just it opened me up , you know . And long-term solution . You know I had a lot of childhood grieving . That was when I really understood oh , my childhood is not great . You know , I thought it was , and you know , so I had a lot of grief in regards to that , and you know .

When I came back , though , to be honest with you and again , I could talk about this all day because , yeah , but , I , you know , I was angry for a while and I had this epiphany one day . I was with my children . They and I had this epiphany one day and I was with my children . They were all sleeping in the back of my van . They were all over tired .

I was being a dick , I was angry and so I got back in the back seat with them , like picking up garbage , while they're all sleeping and I'm like , why am I so angry ? And like that's when a bogey whispered to me . He's like you're not angry , buddy , you're .

That's when I started crying , and in real time not ayahuasca time real time started breathing and I cried for seven to ten days like nonstop . And so I always go back and say , like ayahuasca taught me how to cry and iboga taught me why to cry . So that was my experience there .

But you know , I've gone back three or four times and I was actually initiated into the Buiti tradition back in March . This seems to be my path going forward . I have four kids , so I'm not running at this . I'm going to let spirit be my guide with all of this . But yeah , iboga is really awesome .

I highly encourage people that are struggling with addiction to look into it . You know I really , really do . It could have worked my brother and it did . He just didn't have the proper support , and that's that's what I'm big on , my wife's big on . That's why we're so passionate about that , because this stuff works .

We just need the right people , integrating and helping these people come into the back of these experiences , because they are life-changing , mind-boggling , all of it . You know that's me like , just on that . No , I grew up in a catholic church , dude . You know when I went to all these fucking rules I did I boga and say wait a second .

I've done this thing before . You know like , but I've never done it in this life . What the fuck is going on I was . All of this was new to me , man , so it just completely I mean , that's a whole nother story , just the whole idea of god , and everything completely changed and in a really healthy way .

You know , I wasn't afraid of dying anymore and you know , my brothers were okay . That was like that was the most profound thing , ryan , I would love to share . It's just like I was at that point . I was really , really worried about connor . Like I didn't know , you know , if he was okay . He died two years before this .

I never grieved his death and one of my questions for aboga is like is connor okay ? And there was just this white light that came up and it just like hovered there for a while and I was like okay , and I just like it's just like I knew , right in that moment . It's like , yeah , his light is still shining , he's just somewhere else . It was .

It was just annoying , you know , and it was . I knew it and I I don't know how to describe it like I'd never trust . You know , I believed everything . I I don't know it's just when you . That's how powerful these medicines are . Like . I believe that more than anything I've ever believed in my life .

It was that simple and , not having done the bible books I read none of that shit mattered . That one moment changed my fucking whole perspective and so grateful for iboga and grateful for letting me share all that .

You know , I really appreciate you sharing a brother , right , like you know , to be able to go through an experience like a boga and then be cast back into the real world . I mean , for anyone listening that has taken mushrooms and try to go into , like a Walmart the next day .

It's a weird experience , dude , like it's a lot of energy to try to deal with you couple on top of that trauma , addiction , things like that . And again , again , we all live in a very distorted world right now and I think we can take some time to just really admit to ourselves like , yeah , this is a fucking big wave to surf .

You know , like , for those of us that are even a little bit empathetic and able to tune into the reality around us , there is a fuck ton of fear in the collective right now , and there has been for a long time , because I think , deep in our souls , we all know this isn't the way it's supposed to be .

We're not going to , we're not supposed to get born into a world that cares more about numbers than human lives . We're not meant to just buy , you know , buy goods , pay taxes and die .

We're not meant to be slaves to the safe jobs that don't make us happy , because we got to pay for a house that's overpriced , to drive in a car that's overpriced , that we need to have to keep up with the Joneses .

Like , all of this is programming and it's a fucking lot to work through , especially when a lot of people around you are going to be like oh Ryan , just get with the times , man , just fucking get in line . You know like , don't try to , russell , ruffle the feathers of people , don't try to rock the boat , just stay in line .

And you know again , it takes a lot of courage and a lot of self empowerment to be able to say no , I'm good with that , you know . And and also to find others that are on that same wavelength . That's why , for me , like , one of my biggest things is community .

You know like , being able to bring people together that can teach one another like , hey , we're not crazy . You know like , if anything , we're a lot more awake than most people .

And you know , like , if anything , we're a lot more awake than most people , and that's not in an egotistical way , that's like OK , we have our own challenges , which is we live in a world where most people are happy to be asleep and that's OK , right , no judgment .

But at the same time , it's a lot to handle , like waking up and everyone telling you you're crazy , and these kind of things . And you know , I think one of the most important things in this space is to have those that can support you .

You know , not just during , of course we know that's important with the right medicine workers and things like that , but especially after as well , you know , with the integration of you , like being able to actually make sense out of the experience you just had and how it contextualizes and fits into the experience of life you've already been having .

And one of the things that you mentioned that I've had the experience of too is when you asked about your brother being safe . You know , is he okay ?

One of the things that happened to me one time when my dad was sick , you know , I wasn't allowing myself to feel any of like the fucking immense hurt , you know , or my dad passing away when I was pretty young but at the same time and he was sick in the house .

You know , when I was , when I was messing with a lot of mushrooms with friends , because a lot of my friends , you know , they were like my , my parents , second kids , you know they took everyone into the neighborhood .

You know , a lot of my friends didn't grow up in the best situations but they knew they could always come to my house , hang out at the pool , have dinner , you know , whatever you know , sleep over , eat fucking Cheetos all night , whatever it was that we used to do .

And so when my dad was sick , you know , and so we would all just do mushrooms and we didn't have an intention of like , oh , my dad's sick , let's do mushrooms and pray for him . Wasn't like that . It was just like a lot of us being unconscious and being like , oh , let's just keep doing mushrooms . We don't know why , but let's just keep doing it .

And I remember there was one time where my grandmother had passed , about three years prior to this no-transcript , we had a body high and we laughed at a funny movie , and the next weekend we'd be like out of our bodies , coming back every like 20 minutes , looking at each other like not even knowing who we were , and then just going back into it for like four

hours . So it was like hit or miss , you know , like either way , and I remember this one time . It was a hit or miss , you know , like either way , and I remember this one time . It was a Mexican strain of mushrooms we connected with and for me , like the skinnier the mushroom , the more like spiritual it is .

Now again , they're all spiritual , obviously , but like the more visually spiritual they are , you know . And so this was like one of the first times we ever had those very skinny type of mushrooms and we ate like an eighth each , which was more than we had ever eaten .

And all of us ended up just like I mean , I didn't meditate back then , but basically we were all with our eyes closed on different couches , just like you know , completely out of our bodies , and we ended up at this space that we were all together .

We didn't like we weren't talking , but we all knew that each other were there and it was just this fucking bright , golden light and it felt so safe , golden light , and it felt so safe , and I just saw all my family members that had ever passed away . I saw ancestors I had never met .

I didn't know they were ancestors at the time , I just thought there was some random people there , but like my grandmother was there and everyone was like dude , like there's nothing to worry about , we're like totally good .

And I remember going out to my mom because my mom was really upset over her mother dying and me trying to tell her , you know , like don't worry , she't worry , she's fine . Like I'm talking to her right now and of course , like you know , she's like okay , cool , but you know , obviously it didn't really integrate .

You know , without having that experience , it's hard to have that . You know that , knowing that they're okay . But I know that type of experience and I really credit that one experience out of all the ones I had during my dad being sick , with , when he passed away , being able to go .

Well , you know , I know that it sucks that he's not here , I know that I miss him , but I know that he's okay and that , like knowing deep in my soul has been a profound thing to have because now , as hard as it is when friends , family members et cetera pass away , I know that they're okay , and there was a guy I met a little bit later in my life , a

couple of years ago , named Don . This guy's a mystical fucking wizard . I got to get him on the show sometime . You would love this guy , but he's died three times and come back to life . One time he was stabbed in the neck , one time he drowned . I forget the third thing , but he's got mystical powers , man .

And I remember one thing he said to me he came over my house , he drove this guy's probably in his fifties . He drove . He was driving nonstop from Arizona out to Boston to come see me and work on my mother and work on Rachel , work on myself , and then see some people in New York . So he drove out and he was in New York .

He drove out to New York straight with no sleep . I don't even know how he did it . He drove out of New York , worked on people , napped for a couple of hours , then drove out to Boston . He gets to my house at 1130 at night , right , he comes in . He's like dude , I'm really hungry , can you cook me some bacon and eggs ?

I was like , yeah , I got you . So while I'm cooking him food , he starts working on my mom , and my mom has hated chiropractors her whole life .

You know she had a bad experience one , and the modality he does is similar to that , and just watching this gangster just work with mom and just cut through all of her like you know , patterns and programs , was incredible .

Then he works on Rachel , then he works on me , but then he also we had talked about doing a QHHT session quantum healing , hypnosis therapy or whatever . So this is at like one in the morning we start right , and I thought like , oh , this is an hour or two hour session , dude .

We talked until it was 830 in the morning and during that time he was I mean , dude , I've only been around one other person in my life that can do this . We're like he would ask a question . I would feel my energy pick up and he'd be like see what happened right there , and he would just call all these things out .

But it was absolutely incredible , man , because I remember one thing he said to me was he looked dead in my eyes and he was like listen , man , when someone passes away , don't you dare be sad for them . You can be sad for you , but they're riding the fucking lightning .

And I remember , like the way he said it , I was like whoa , like it just hit me , because that experience of being in that light I imagine that's exactly what he meant and you know , going through his experiences of dying and him sharing things with me , that's exactly what he had shared with me . So it's very interesting .

You had a similar experience there , bro beautiful , very beautiful .

Like , did you have to go , you know , over to Africa to do it ? Did you deal with a ? Like a people that had come from Africa were part of the booty but they were living over here and doing ceremonies or something like that .

But I think , through that experience of being initiated , I knew that I'm a part of it now , like the Buiti . In a nutshell's , like you know , they study life . It's a study of life , and that's just what I kind of do on the side , you know , like just all this time to learn .

So I'm trying to think here yeah , so a lot of my experience was just like being patient with the process , knowing that I have a lot to do between now and then with my children , and just my art and having fun with it , um , but yeah , you know , gabon is in my future and um , and being initiated was no joke .

It was a life-changing experience exactly when he needed the time , you know .

But you know , I think that's one of the best things about the modern day world is that for a lot of us , like we can't necessarily afford the time or the money to go to Africa or places like that , you know , even for people that , like yourself , that needed ayahuasca , you know , like going down to Peru and going through the jungle and everything like , yes ,

it's amazing experience right , that's how I plan to do it . But also it's amazing that we have this ability to be able to do these medicines in different places .

Because you know , if the only way to do these medicines were to be to go to Africa or go to Peru or Costa Rica or Colombia or any of these countries , you know , first of all , it'd be a lot on , you know , the medicine down there . It'd be a lot on the medicine down there , it'd be a lot on the workers down there . It'd be a lot just overall .

But also it would only make a very small percentage of people able to actually experience it . And so I hear a lot in the psychedelic world of like should these medicines come out of the jungle ? And I'm like , yes , I don't think they were ever meant to stay in one place .

Because when you connect with these medicines and you have a spiritual practice and whatnot , you realize that first of all , we're all one . Second of all , none of this actually exists , none of it's real . So , really , why does it matter if something is in the jungle or not in the jungle ?

Like these are like human things we put on it because we think it places importance . Like , yes , they should be held in reference . Yes , they should be done through lineage , just like you experienced . But who's to say that lineage doesn't want to get out into other parts of the world ?

Like I think there's like a like yes , we don't want the guy that went to Burning man once , you know , doing your aboga ceremony . But at the same time , if these people are really initiated into these lineages , why wouldn't you want them in every corner and far reaching , you know , orifice of the world ?

You know , because as many people as we can that resonate with plant medicine , that are able to sit with these medicines and benefit from them , the better . For me , you know , that's how I personally view it and I'm curious for you speaking about medicines and whatnot .

You and I are both big fans of cannabis and whenever I have someone on that you know really connects with this medicine in a spiritual way .

I love sharing this Because , you know , even if someone hadn't heard about a boga before you talked about it , if they go look it up , they're going to see a lot of people saying it's very spiritual , et cetera , and it is right .

But with cannabis , like we both know , it's been bastardized a lot and so whenever I have someone on that resonates and really sits with cannabis and feels the spiritual aid and ally in their life , I love to hear a little bit about what your journey has been with that medicine , because there is a lot of re-education that is necessary around that one topic of

cannabis , when it comes to being a plant medicine and a plant spirit ally , because most people just don't see it that way because they've never had the context of it working that way . So how , how do you see cannabis in your life and how do you feel the plant helps you ?

I'd love to hear that man because I know we've dove in a lot about it , but I'd love to share with the listeners talk about iboga and cannabis .

It was something that my first sponsor said , like I don't do the marijuana maintenance program and I was so hard on myself and such like a white knuckle , fucking sobriety that I was like weed , I'm not gonna smoke weed like . So I completely shut it off . And then it wasn't really until my brother , who introduced the ayahuasca to me , said he was smoking pot .

He was in sobriety too . It's like what the what ? And he was calling it cannabis . You know what I mean ? I'm like what do ? you mean , what the fuck are you talking about ? So that got me interested . And then when I got back to my ayahuasca , you know I other than like the , the , the one quick relapse I had .

You know I hadn't been drinking , I had these epic relapses but I had been pretty much been sober for like four , four years . You know what I mean . So I was really when I got back to my ayahuasca , I allowed myself to try it and you know it , the first like run was great in the beginning , but it wasn't that great .

It wasn't until I did a boga that everything changed . Because one of my questions was like hey , can I smoke pot ? Like , am I allowed to smoke pot ? And it didn't give me an answer . So it was like it's up to you to do it . I'll go figure it out , man . And you know it's been a long journey , as you know very well with cannabis , very long journey .

But that summer of 2019 , that's the first time I did Iboga that you know , the spiritual aspect just really started happening to me and I started really connecting with my brother through cannabis . You know , after I learned that he was okay and it was dude , that was all part of the grief . You know the grieving .

It's just like I'm here , I'm right here , you know , like you were saying about your buddy there , you know , and it was , and he was happy and well , and it was just his energy was just picking me up , and then I was having these experiences and again , you know a lot of these , these crying .

I was having just these crying fits and it was all cannabis related , again , just really getting in tune with myself , and that it was just the most beautiful experience , you know , and I've had experiences on psychedelics , where I've , you know , I've learned that pretty much everything that I've learned in the last five years , which is a lot , because I was nowhere

, you know , and I began this journey it's like I've learned through cannabis . You know , um , I always use it when I journey and the last time doing I lost very much . You know those experiences . But if I'm eating mushrooms , you know there's usually cannabis involved .

Um , you know , likewise , san pedro , if I'm going to do something like that , like yes , uh , and there's always cannabis when I'm integrating , and there's , you know , there's cannabis . You know , lately I've sort of surrendered to the fact it's probably going to be cannabis every day you know , let's get all good .

You know , I'm really hard on myself and I've really had to look myself in the mirror lately and with your help , ryan , you know we did a really wonderful job together . It was really beautiful .

And I think when I learn more than anything that cannabis is working , more than it's helping , you know and it's , and you know , and I just need to take a step back , you know , and I think I'm just so like in my head about it say , yes , this works , let's just take a breather , you know , and use it at the appropriate times .

And I've been able lately to really cut it back into this , this really steady , beautiful rhythm of you know light in the afternoons and a little bit in the evenings and good rest and boom . So it worked for me . I highly encourage anybody to use it . So , yeah , it's , it's , it's my favorite medicine .

A lot of people ended up left braining it , you know , and I noticed this early on and it's one of the things we talked about when we started working together , right , like a lot of people would hear , like some posts from me where I'm like , oh , I'm connecting on weekends and they'd be like , fuck , I connected on a Thursday , am I bad ?

And I started getting so many of those messages that I was like , oh , I think I haven't been . I think I've been a little irresponsible about how I've been talking about my own personal frequency of cannabis , because by no means is weekends only the right way and by no means is connecting every day the wrong way .

Right , it's just that there was a time in my life where connecting every day did no longer serve me , because it became a crutch for me . It became something for me to use to numb out and forget the uncomfortable feelings I was living in .

But once I dealt with those , I was able to then connect with cannabis again in a way that wasn't running away from pain , it was running towards pleasure and I was totally willing to go into the pain to make that pain into pleasure and alchemize it .

And when I started doing it that way , I started learning like , wow , this plant is so powerful and , you know , most of us never learned that it can work in this way . So we don't have a context for it . So it doesn't work that way Because , again , we're in a dream . Only what we believe will experience will be experienced in the dream .

So again , like it's kind of like the idea of you know , like I've worked with many clients who feel like they can't love themselves and feel like they can't find romantic love , let's say right , and maybe throughout their life , when we start diving into it , they've never really seen an example of a healthy relationship .

And they can give me all these you know logical reasons . Like , dude , my parents broke up , my brothers and sisters have all had divorces . You know my best friends are getting divorces because they're looking at relationships through the lens of this is unhealthy to do right , or relationships are always going to fail .

So , abracadabra , what are they going to see in their reality , their dream , their illusion ? They're going to see things that confirm their own bias . But once we start actually illuminating where this pattern started from just like you with the drinking right , realizing , oh , I was left alone in the crib .

Okay , now we have some awareness around what is actually going on and when we heal that all of a sudden our beliefs change and therefore , because our dream is created from what we believe it is , our whole experience changes .

And that's why , like when we work together , you know , and when I work with any client on cannabis , usually what happens is they come to me when they've been really hard on themselves , just like you were saying about like I'm on again , fuck , I'm fucking up .

Okay , I'm off again , I'm doing great , I'm on again , I'm off again , I'm on again , I'm off again and it's just this teeter totter of back and forth and really what it is typically is them treating themselves just like their parents treated them , and they're unaware of it .

Right , like their parents probably put a lot of rules on them , were hard on them , we're hard on them , and so now they're doing it to themselves , but they're unconscious of it because they have this whole belief system that maybe cannabis is bad , maybe they're an addict , whatever these things they've been told that are influencing the reality , but those aren't

their beliefs , right , like I mean , they are in a way they've taken them on , but they're not their beliefs Like they were . They were , you know , kind of incentivized from the world around them .

And so when you start handling that stuff , you start realizing there is no right or wrong and you start being able to be the captain of your own soul again and you get to be your own guru and you get to just really tune in and ask yourself is this a calling or a craving ? And then act from that .

And there's no right or wrong , because even if you give into a craving , you learn from that . If you give into a calling , you learn from that . But as long as you're learning from it , it's a conscious relationship . That's the whole idea of being conscious . You're aware of what you're doing , why you're doing it and what you're looking to get from it .

So even if you decide you know what , I had a shitty day and I'm going to smoke weed till I forget it all , well , that's not the same as when you were doing it unconsciously . Now you're conscious of it , right .

So that doesn't mean that you're in a perfectly healthy relationship , but at the same time , you're 100 times healthier with the plant than you were before , or alcohol , or nicotine or pornography or whatever your poison quote unquote is right .

You know again , it's it's less about what is objectively right and wrong and more about what is just subjectively right and wrong for you and your experience right now .

You know like I go through periods where I connect with cannabis every day , and then there's a day where I wake up and I'm like , yeah , I don't feel like doing that today and I just don't , and then that will last for however long it lasts , and then I'll be back on when I feel like it's right to go back on , and I don't really put too much thought

into it anymore because , like you were saying , when you become conscious with something and you start allowing it to be a co-communicative and co-creative relationship and it's serving your best interest , well , now , maybe in the past you utilize cannabis just like I did and just like you did , to numb out , and so you had this whole thing around .

I got to quit that , I got to stop doing that . But now it might look like it's a go back right , like , oh , I'm connecting every day again , but really it's a comeback , because now you're actually creating intention , you're going into things , you're transmuting things and you're feeling fucking good when you wake up .

That's the ultimate thing , like do you really feel good when you wake up each day ? If you are , then that means that things are pretty good inside of you , right , like things are working . Now , if you wake up and you feel an incongruence within you , that's when you start going okay , what's going on here ?

Maybe your soul tells you , hey , it's time to back off for a little while and you're like okay , cool , I will , you know . And maybe uncomfortable feelings come up . Cool , awesome , you're aware of it , you know .

So I love talking about this because it's , you know , it is a process , right , like it's not as easy as just like stop forever or , you know , do it every day . It's like it's more complex than that , you know , and I think , at the end of the day , that's what makes it beautiful , because it's different for every single person .

And you know , like I say all the time , nothing is right or wrong for anyone . But at the end of the day , if you're finding something's helping you and it's leading to positive results that are helping your mission in life , then what's the real issue there , you know , until an issue arises .

So I love this conversation , man , because it's one I have often , you know , with people , and it's one that I love to talk about on the podcast because , as you know , you know , not too many people are doing a boga five times a day , Right . Not too many people are eating mushrooms five times a day , right .

Not too many people are eating mushrooms five times a day . Those kind of have their own . Even MDMA has its own thing built into it , where it's just really not addictive at all .

But cannabis can provide comfort , and it is that feminine , motherly presence that a lot of men specifically women too , but a lot of men crave in our lives , because we're just fucking wariering it out , we're not giving ourselves time to fucking be our own nurturers , and so , of course , we're going to seek out this external thing that will give us comfort , whether

it's alcohol , whether it's cannabis , whether it's whatever it is .

But it's not the thing , it's the root cause , right , you were left alone in the crib and you didn't feel loved by the people that brought you into this world , and so , therefore , you didn't know if you were lovable , and so then that pattern rippled out throughout your life until you were able to become conscious and tell yourself , yes , I am lovable .

And when that happened , like you said , everything changed , you know , and so it's really cool . Man , it's just fun stuff to talk about , bro I love this stuff fucking awesome , man . So I'm curious for you , ryan .

Like you know , we've talked a lot about where you've come from , what you've utilized to be able to move through some intense and dense trauma , and how you've come out the other side .

Now , what I'd love to discuss for a little while , man , is what what's next from here , bro , you know , like I think a lot of people that are listening that maybe are going through these traumas and whatnot they might not think there's anything other than just dealing with this or surviving the rest of their life .

You know , as someone who has come from that kind of area and has persevered through it and continues to persevere through it and give yourself love when you need it , you know where do you see your future going now , man , you're going to , you know , to continue to do more work with a boga , etc . You have books . You're writing .

Like you know , I really love dreaming with the people I have on the podcast of what they're looking to do from here . Man , now that you've been healing yourself and you're continuing to heal yourself , what has become possible as a result of that healing ?

I think you know , one of the biggest things I took from my experience with iboga in march was , you know , I've been writing books about my pain , my past , my trauma , my drinking , all this stuff and I realized , you know , in a loving way , that man that was just keeping me living there , you know , and , uh , I will always write about this stuff because ,

like you , I'm really passionate about this . I love this stuff . I could talk to you for the next 24 hours . Um , this stuff , you know I love it . So this is , you know , I have many more books to write about this stuff as I continue to learn more . You know , again , my my life right now is my four kids , another reason why I love cannabis .

Cannabis , it kind of reduces the stress . I'm taking care of them , we're homeschooling them , taking care of them as best we can . So that takes up a lot of my life , but they've helped me . You know , speaking of my kids , they really helped me develop this thing that I just wrote a book called Sentimental Shorts .

It's a short story collection for kids , you know , from eight to 12 . Story collection for kids , you know , from eight to 12 . And this is what I meant about me getting into my art . I'm really , really excited about this phase of my life .

You know , I 'd never really tried the fiction and I , you know , just started screwing around with it and my kids loved it and I was reading these stories at night . So I'm I'm really excited for this next phase of my life to tap into that . You know , this is kind of you know , and this is a side project .

This is what I'm passionate about , um , the more than anything . You mentioned it . Yeah , yes , iboga is my path and I , you know , I'm taking a facilitation course this fall for mushrooms and cacao , like that kind of thing you'd start with , then go to the psilocybin and maybe even insert cannabis in the end .

So I'm really excited about my wife and I just started holding space . You know , we're kind of starting at the beginning with the cacao and the psilocybin , but , yeah , the the end goal is Iboga , some sort of retreat , you know .

But at the same time there's just no hurry you know , you just kind of surrender to the flow of the universe and know that it's there in the future and , you know , ride the wave until you get there and I I've lost a lot of gratitude for what I get to experience over that .

You know , in between now and then , just raising these wonderful kids and , um , spending this time with my wife you know she loves psychedelics , she's . You know we're both like psychedelic integration coaches , um and and facilitating medicine together so , uh , it's , it's . You know , that's five , six years ago . This wouldn't have been my wildest dreams , you know .

Thank you second alex , and you know , thank you , love , you know . So , yeah , it's been really , really great and there's a lot to look forward to .

You know , like you know , it's one of those things where you know when challenges happen , they can happen to us or for us , and that's up to us subjectively . And I know , for me I had to let them happen to me , quote unquote , for a long time before , once again , the fear of staying the same .

I waited for your change and I was willing to finally go OK , how are these helping ? Or how are these happening for me ? And again , like you know , there's no objective way that they're happening to you or for you . It's your own meaning . You know we as humans are meaning making machines .

But if we want to be the captain of our own soul , we want to be our own guru , Then we have to be our own biggest cheerleader as well , and no one's going to come get us when we fall into the depths of challenge . And a lot of times our ego wants us to go deeper into that because it keeps the ego alive .

Right , the more the ego can keep us in the illusion , the more that the illusion stays alive . But the more that we can forgive ourselves and start to subtract from the equation of the equation of ourselves , the quicker and more efficiently we'll be able to get back into our seat of power , and that's what I love about your story , man .

It's really just that you know , with a button on it , dude . It's really amazing , man , and I want to make sure I give uh you an ample opportunity to tell people where they can find the books , where they can connect with you .

I know you're just starting now getting you know , holding space , going and everything , but where can people go to find you , connect with you ? You know , uh , shoot the shit with you . Do all these things , man , because I know there's going to be a lot of people that are inspired after listening to this episode .

So for anyone who's really interested in learning about how psychedelics can help with addiction , that's a fun story and I had a lot of fun with that , so I'd highly recommend it . And Instagram Journey Guy , ryan and , yeah , my wife and I are in the beginning stages of kind of just combining our services .

So I don't know how much longer these services will be there , but for now that's where I'm at . I appreciate the opportunity to share that , so thanks dude , of course , man .

What is one piece of advice you would give them to allow them to use the proper discernment in choosing whether or not these medicines that we mentioned today and other medicines are right for them in their life at this particular time ?

Yes , you know , if you're curious , yes , if you pay attention to signs , you know if you're curious about something and you , someone keeps saying the word ayahuasca , like you know , oh , maybe that's time to talk to me like that's how these medicines . These spirits try to communicate .

They try to just leave a sign so you'll know when you're ready , um , and you'll know you're not . Would you agree with that one ?

And a lot of people talk about like , oh , I'm feeling the call for ayahuasca , and I , when I heard that , like I understood it , but I was like I don't fucking , like I don't know if I've ever felt like a call to a medicine , necessarily . But then it all hit me .

I was like , oh , my goodness , yes , I have , because the , you know , I thought it would be like this , like , you know , feeling that wells up in you and again , maybe for some people it is that way right , but for me , for whatever reason , how it happens is I start having the medicine pop up .

My reality a lot , you know , like people are like , oh , do you want to try this ? And it's like never been around me before , and I'm like that's weird . I'm like , no , I'm good . And then it pops up again . Wow , you know , I just had this experience . I'm like , okay , this is kind of weird . So I noticed it through synchronicity .

Well , I've had two people now that have gifted me a full on ayahuasca retreat . Whenever I want to go right Hamilton Southern , my buddy , sam believe , has been on the show . So I'm like , okay , I'm getting , and there's a lot of classes I want to take and things I want to do , and the universe was like shut up , there's no money involved now .

Now , what's yours to ? So I'm like , oh shit , maybe the time you know , and like , so every time I put up a barrier , the universe has put down that barrier for me and showed me like're saying no , and that's been a really inquisitive thing for me to be like , oh yeah , like maybe there's some fear there , things like that .

But it's funny how that works , man . So , yeah , I totally agree , bro , and this has been amazing , dude , I can't wait to have you back on . We'll have to do the next one in person too , man . The next time we're in person together .

It was so amazing getting to meet you and give you a big hug in virginia when , uh , you were driving through and whatnot , get you to try some of my cannabis , which was dope .

Ryan is an amazing , amazing brother of mine and I really wanted to have him on the show , not just because of all of his experiences and how amazing of a soul he is , but because I imagine for many of you , his story is going to be inspiring , if not for you personally , for a family member , a friend that maybe you're really scared about , right .

Maybe you don't know what the future can hold , maybe you don't know if they can ever work through these things , and I hope what his story showed is that there is always hope , so long as you're willing to believe in yourself to the degree where you can allow that hope to hit you . And , guys , if you enjoyed the show , go give us a five-star review .

It helps us get the show to more and more people , which we fucking love and we're so grateful for . And until next time , guys , wherever you are in the world . I hope you were having the best day ever to infinity and beyond peace for now , fam .