The following is a presentation of Playfly Sports properties in Michigan State Sports Properties. In one ward, I'd described Jimmy Ray as iconic, impactful, intelligent. He's the first black quarterback from the South to win a national title. Jimmy Ray is tough. Jimmy Ray was a bad dude. Could not find a better football man. Jimmy Ray should have been a head coach so many times over and I just caught like I see it. He was why I learned
what the word indelible miant. They explained, indelible means that they could never take it away from you and it's going to be there forever. Well well, well what a teaser that was right there. For our special guests. It is Thursday February twenty thirty, twenty twenty three. I'm your host, Jason straight On along my co host Otis Wiley in ju Cho Cochprick in the House and this is Sparta. Be sure to click the link and subscribe buttons.
If you are watching us live. Thank you for watching us live. It's going to be a great show today, and don't forget to follow us on all of our social media platforms and if you need to know how this is how. Thanks for tuning in to This is Sparta MSU. Interested in hearing more from us, be sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and even TikTok. Click on the link in the bio to head to our link tree for more information. Help us grow our following by hitting
the like and subscribe buttons. Tell your friends and family to do the same. Have an idea for a future episode, let us know in the comment section below. And now back to the show. Gentlemen, how you guys doing today? You know, we got a special guest, but we got to talk about the basketball game that happened a couple days ago. Great event. Michigan State knocks off Indiana at home. Eighty sixty five free pancakes for everybody, by the way, But what a great game. Otis. Absolutely,
It's just throw that word from Jay. He always says absolutely. You got to confirm that it was a great game. You know what obviously has happened on our campus. You know winning, I would say winning solves everything, but winning does allow us to come together and heal. And you see you know Alan Haller and a d from IU. You know, the big step for IU to come out with the shooting. That's supporting us and Spartan
strong the student section. Man, Like I got a text, uh, you know from someone stating, you know, if it wasn't for that Spartan Sunday event, then we hosted to you know, at least allow students to feel comfortable welcome to come back to campus. Uh, we may not have had that strong showing of you know of yesterday night with the zone and then just all of the fans coming back. It was a late night game, so nine pm. You can't really you know, expect people to come out
that late, but it was a series of just love support. The players truly rallied through as y'all were watching. You had some phenomenal you know guys stepping up to play and win this for not just himselves obviously for a Spartan
nation. So you know, I wanted to just know the place of note that I love this era of Tom is like this is the age of his career where he's not afraid to shed tears as a man, as a guy who was always in the public, Like I really fully respect Tom for this or just it's okay to fully give your emotions out and cry man and just to kind of say this is a healing process, like he truly hasn't I
don't know, had time to process what has transpired. He's been kind of the spokesperson for us when it comes to, you know, being out there individual being the spokesperson. So great, great game, Great kudos to our fans engagement team who really stepped in to truly make sure that things were smooth and things that were you know, receptives of everything after what happened. It
was just a flow. Good game, man. So love that we got the dove because, like I told you guys on our last show, I definitely left Bloomington really really bitter, and I'm glad we got them got them back last night or two nights ago. Yeah, speaking of the emotion, you know is Oh did show a lot of emotion the other day, JU And you know he had a great interview after the ballgame with Scott van Pelba
ESPN. You've been there for so long and you've had incredible highs and you've mentioned individual last week, some difficult lows this night, the significance for your community, the significance for your team, the significance for you. I'm asking you to put words to something that's probably hard, but give me your best
shot. Wow, you are asking me to do a hard thing. But I'd say Scott that it was hopefully two hours of joy, you know, because there's been a lot of sadness here and I think that's one thing sports can do for you. It can exhilarate you and make you all come together. There were fifteen thousand people there tonight and I felt like I could give
a hug to every one of them by how my team played. Yeah, that said it all right there, you know, those words that our coach Izzo said at the end of the game in that interview with SVP there said
it all. And just all the tearor the tragic that happened in these lants and you know, a little over a week ago now and just given that two hours of escape, you know, where people could feel normal for a bit, could go on and all be in the same building and cheer for the same cause, cheer for you know, their school, cheer for that pride, and it's just you know, Michigan State, this, you know,
past week is just exuding you know that extra pride. It mean, it means so much right now to be Spartan and going out there and doing that and a steal of Otis's words. Kudos to everyone that was involved in,
you know, making this go off without a hitch. Kudos to you know everyone with the shirts, you know, the Spartan Strong shirts in you know, in the student section throughout the arena, and the you know, the tributes that were paid, you know by Indiana, you know, singing the school Shadows, all that stuff, and getting those students back and giving that sense of normalcy that goes a long ways. It sure does. Tyson Walker, huge game from him the other night, a lot, a lot,
a lot of great performances, gutty performances from Michigan State. Status quo of a Tom Izzo led team, what Misigan State fans have grown accustomed to, especially as you get closer to March, given the tragic circumstances just happened a week ago. Yeah, you know, you think about we always let's break it down basketball's terms, Like clearly we're a football show, but defense and rebounding wins games. And you see that we were all over the place
and just rallying it around each other. You had freshman Jackson Cohler stepping up against All American you know, power forward center IU. You know, it's just the opportunity to see that. You know, we we rose to the occasion, man, And you know our first it started out a little bit ugly, right, you know, they got ahead of us, and I was like, oh, man, like I don't know, man, and then you just start to see them rally through and we ended out on a
great note. Man, So definitely excited that we're able to go into our next game and you know, at least get a little bit up in the rankings for a better seeding for big ten play a conference tournament, and you know that big ranked win gives us a little belt knots on our belt to you know, get a hopefully a better seed when it comes to NCAA Sunday selection. Yeah, I like that otis. You said defense rebounding, but don't forget free throws because they were money. Bro May Maddy Mady Man,
Madi look Mady. So my man, Oh my gosh, my man goes after it and gets it. There was one you probably saw. There was one where it was a loose ball and I saw him jet and just knew it was probably gonna go out. But go for it almost saved it.
And like I just saw Izzo with that, like you know, is those famous and that's where you were like, man, like he wanted it as bad as obviously anybody out there, but Madi Mady was the glue that kind of kept that going with Swatten Rebounds got the dunk on a on uh TRACE's TRACE's head, which is great because I remember he got that on on Joey
Howser last last game we went there. So just great elements. Man, seeing a lot of faces, familiar faces, and the stands just hugging like no one was afraid to give you a hug or say hey, how are you doing. I think this opened up an opportunit for everyone to just come
together closer. Yeah, speaking of what you brought up a ben in to go like the Spartan strong shirts and we want to make everyone aware of the situation that's happening around the traumatic incident that happened, and there are proper channels to go through in order to get the right licensed equipment, shirts and things like that. This is a tweet that was sent out by Erica Austin,
who runs the licensing department at Michigan State. Yeah, man, it's unfortunate that we obviously have to address this, but I think in any certain situation, you know, this happens. You know, this happens in any big event, super Bowl, NCAA tournament, March Madness. You just have people that really you know, taken upon themselves to produce merchandise sell it and not get the proper channels or protocols where others have done the right things and going
through the proper channels of becoming a licensee that's approved from the university. And so just be aware, like it's almost like you've got to verify when you're purchasing something. You need to be aware of what you're purchasing it through. But we also are providing you the steps in you know, processes that Erica and her team has put together to go through the right proper channels to order Spartan Strong shirts that also the proceeds will go to the Spartan Strong Fund.
And so just be aware of, you know, basically buying fake merch that's not fully licensed and approved. Well said, you know, had to cover it. Just want to make sure everybody knows, you know, this is a show that is brought to you by Michigan State and the properly licensed people on here thanks to otis. So we want to appreciate. I appreciate that Straight gave me the official status that I properly I'm an official proper oh boy.
But look so so speaking of you know, our sponsor, I think I hop they got a free short stack because because they did hit seventy points a couple of days ago, there's going to be a National Pancake Day on February twenty eighth. Talk about that a little bit, fellas. Yeah, look, I don't know who loves pancakes more. Is it me or Ju or is it you Straight. I'll let Jay you take this little he loves some pancakes. I'm all in for the pancakes. Scan the QR code.
Yeah, pancakes love it. I'm just a traditionalist. You guys are prior of fancy with your paint, hocking chips everything. Give me playing pancakes, butter and extra syrup. That's it. Yeah, So I'm with you that National Pancake Day February twenty eighth, Go support it. The proteins are going to a good cost, the Spartan Strong Foundation just part Strong Fund. I'm sorry, you know, if you got an opportunity to now scan that QR
code, all information is there. It's for a good cause and you get to you know, enjoy, you know, while supporting a good cause. Yeah, and just to be clear too that it's all Michigan participating stores, like all I hop stores in the state of Michigan. So this is very huge, you know, one stepping up I Hop stepping up to one to do their part. They've already did part with Kyle providing food to the to the responders that were helping with the aftermath of the mass shooting. But go
to your local I Hop and proceeds one buying pancakes too. You have the opportunity to donate. If you don't get an ie Hop and you don't love breakfast, you still can scan that QR code and donate directly. So just keep that in mind. And all the funds go directly to the official Spartan Strong Fund for Michigan State Athletics. We have it here on the screen for you ww dot go dot m s U dot EU backslash Spartan Strong International House
of Pains. I have stepping up to the plate once again, and here's a message from our friends at i hop Right now, I Hop the six dollars Rudy two d Fresh and Fruity Combo is back two eggs, two bacon strips, and two fruit top pancakes only from i hop. Download the app and earn free food with every order. Dining only limited time at participating locations.
Prices may vary. Well. When you join I Hop's new rewards program, the International Bank of Pancakes and start stacking PAN coins towards free food, would you get a smile on your plate? Download the app and join the rewards program today. Well, guys, moment everyone's been waiting on to see the man in the myth, the legend. Jimmy Ray who joins This is Sparta right now from North Carolina. Now you doing, Jack North Pack.
Yeah, Hello, it's a pleasure to be on. Hello to all the Sparkan Nation and the Spartan Strong. I was observing of the game the other night. It was quite a quite a healing atmosphere, and it was great to see the Sparkan Nation UH come together and and also pull out a victory over I U, which was much needed. But I'm glad to be a part of this today and hopefully as the healing continues in East Lansing, all the prayers of all the Spartan people around the around the nation. Uh,
well, well received. Definitely definitely appreciate that. I appreciate you taking some time, you know, off the golf course to join us for a little bit here. Yeah. Well, we had a couple of nice days down in North Carolina. The last this week we've had some temperatures in the mid seventies, which is unusual for February. But uh, I live here in the Forest Creek, and we have two golf courses, and so with the good weather, we've been able to take advantage and we have to play something.
Yeah, go ahead and rub it in where we uh were shutting down the streets right now freezing rain and sleep, but definitely go ahead rub that in. Yeah. Yeah, I've always had a cutoff of East slash in October. The fifteenth is my final day. I don't go the way that's that's in Michigan pushes you to like into October, right the game Michigan game.
Yeah, yeah, I remember, you know specifically, you know, I'm going to jump ahead because we're going to go back again, but out from the first encounter I had with you, really in with you when you were my coach with the Jets, and uh, the first thing you said to me was and it was that recap the anniversary of the ten ten tie when they brought out the sixty six team and the retired Bubbles jersey, and it was that downpour, but you had it was a Saturday night and you
had a game somewhere else, so that they flew you out there and you stood in that rain and there and uh, I think you even had a couple. I'm never going to go there. But the first day I saw the adjustment, silly like you had me out in that rain and you guys got to blew that game, remember that? Yeah, yeah, well yeah,
they flew me in for the for the ceremony. I had to do an ESPN presentation, doing the doing the day, but I had to get back to Buffalo because we played the Bills the next Sunday, so I had to leave at halftime of the game. And when I left, after standing in the ring and Bubble's jersey was put up in the in the Ring of honor, a name was put up in the Ring of honor. His jersey
was retired. Notre Dame was a hit, like thirty four to seven or something, and so I took the flight into Buffalo and I didn't want to I went to the hotel. I didn't want to ask what the final school was. And I got there to see the end of the game and Michigan State had come back. I don't know if it was led by you,
but they made a come back. That's one of that's one of the reasons you took me in New York there it was huge you you yeah, man, I recall we were leading, Yeah, the second was where you were touched, right. Yeah, we were up and then we blew that lead because they wanted to give a high coach blame our office of coordinator for that one. You need a better play calls. But everybody knows it very well,
coach. So you know, going back to your time in North Carolina growing up as a young man, right, we want to go back to those times and your recruitment ultimately to Michigan State and the ESPN or no NFL did a great show on you the Indelible where it talks about your recruitment in that game. I believe it was an East West Shrine game. Let's let's take a listen here. Any games come back to memory in terns of where you dominated. The most fun for me was the East West Shrine game.
I scored touchdown pass through two, I ran one. I ran a kickoff back for a touchdown. Before the final drive when the game was in the balance, they put me in as a free safety and intercepted the past. It was a bad wood. Everything was yeah, and I had a day and I won the Most Valuable Player award. I was on top of the world. Was that the moment that you knew like I really got it right? Or college scholarships already coming in at a time work, Yeah, they
were coming in from historical black schools. No athlete out of e Smith had gone to a white school or to an integrated college. My thought was that I was going to go to an HBCU. What changed the trajectory of everything was the Most Valuable Player trophy was presented by cal Stole and he was an assistant coach at Michigan State. And that's ignited and started my recruiting to Michigan State. M HM, So did coach talk about that? I mean,
it was like five touchdowns in one game in high school running intercepts. I come on, coach, Yeah, that's incredible. I had. I had one of those days that you only dream about. But UH and it and it came at the right time because there were two two All Star games in the state of North Carolina at the time. UH. The white players played in the North South Shrine Game, which was North Carolina versus South Carolina.
I was I was voted to play in the game, but I was it was illegal for me to play because my school was UH the Negro High School Athletic Association, and they wouldn't allow me to play. UH. And then the the the the segregated schools in the state of North Carolina played in there. Their bowl game was the East West Shrine Game was held in Durham, North Carolina, and all the best players in the East played against the best players in the West. And I won the starting job as a quarterback and
for the East in that game and won the most Valuable Player award. And as I mentioned, cal Stolee, who was an assistant coach at Michigan State, was recruited in the South and he presented the most Valuable Player trophy. The player Award trophy. Uh, And that's what was ignited and started my recruitment at Michigan State MHM coach. You know, I had the privilege of going down there and working at Southern Methodist University and there's there's there's a player
by the name Jerry Lebias. Kind of you guys are in that same kind of specially you up here on the north of mission can stay in him at the Southwest Conference. Then at that time, I mean just talk about the one coming up here making that making that decision to come here to Michigan State.
But did you know at that time the pipeline that you were creating or opening up for Michigan State by making that decision, because it was not the most favorable decision to come to a p w Y school versus an HBCU. Uh No, not at all. Because I I grew up under in the in the South, as Jerry did, under the gym Crow laws, where you wasn't allowed to play or compete athletically against the white schools. The white
players in the state were separated. And my my recruitment uh to Michigan State was kind of an anomaly because uh one, I played a position that that didn't let itself to that I would be successful in college. And during the recruitment period, I didn't go up to Michigan State until the spring of the year, like early summer for on my recruiting visit, and I think that was by design. And when I got there, the weather was lovely and
it's pretty and those storm the snow I did. I had no idea that he could get his cold, that the air could get his cold as a guy in Michigan and the snow. The first time I saw the snow, I went back to bed. I was living in East Wilson Hall. I went back to bed and the assistant coach, Hank Bullet, came and knock knocked my door down and asked me what I was doing. Why I wo wasn't in class, And I said, it's snowing because in the state of
North Carolina. In North Carolina didn't get much snow, but if we did, the school was out of canceled. And so I thought the same thing. And I looked out, looked out the window across that field toward the Duffy door. The building wasn't there then, but that's still going toward the stadium and the smoke stacking. As far as my eye could see, it was nothing but snow. And I said, no, Boddy, I went
back to I went back to bed. But I soon learned he said, well, if you're not going to school in the snow, you're not going to class. You won't be going to class until May. So I figured out I had to I had to gear up and get some gear to to to make that trek across the across the campus get to get over to Berkeley Hall. But uh, it was. It was quite a quite a transition
for me, wonder Weather. Two being a being playing with athletes that were white, playing for the first time with white athletes because I didn't that had happened in college, and then trying to be a leader h and be the
quarterback, which was a negative. Also, so being able to being allowed to eat in the Kellogg Center, in the restaurant, being allowed to stay in the hotel, all those things were first for me because in the segregated South with the gym crow loogs, you couldn't eat in a restaurant and you couldn't and had to go to the back of the back of the back door of the theater to go in the movie, and you couldn't You couldn't drink, and you couldn't get water or go to the restroom. They had black
colored only restroom, colored only water fountains, white only bathroom. So all of that was a transition for me my first year there at Deslancing. Yeah, so talk about that transition. How was that? Like was it were you apprehensive at first? Like to you know something some points drinking out a water fountain? You know, like what's that? Like? You know, shock? What was that? Like? Well, well, it was, it was different. But that happened when I was when I was a young
kid. The water fountain incident happened when I was a young kid. I woul't think I was. I hadn't gotten to my I wasn't. I wasn't a teenager. I was probably nine at eight, nine or ten years old or maybe a little little maybe eight maybe seven or eight. But I was down in the downtown Feedville with my mom in the in the store, uh and it was cresst H Department store, and not paying attention, I left
my mom. She was behind me, and I went to get some water and I fell a snatched me by the shoulder and said, boy, get over here, and I was at the white water Uh. And unbeknownst to me at that that age, at that time, I didn't know. I didn't I got the lesson about Jim Crow and the colored only water fountains and the colored only bathrooms, and uh, the white only water fountains, and
so I understood from that point on. Uh. Then I got the lesson about Emmett Till because that wasn't that far removed from my from my era, my age group, all the black kids in the South, black boys in the South, was made aware of the killing of Mt. Till Uh in Mississippi when he visited from Chicago, and Uh supposedly UH made an off, off off comment to a white lady in a store and then he got taken out of bed at night and beaten and a cement block tied to him and
UH put in the bottom of the river. So that story in the South was what every young kid grew up, every young black kid grew up understanding. And so when we were downtown, when we were old a little older and would go by ourself, we knew that white lady was coming down the street on the side of we were on the go over across over the street, and so there would be no incident involving white people because of the Jim
Crow laws. No, man, wow, I mean you think about that, coach when we talk about what's been what happened at Michigan State over a week ago, and the trauma and the healing process that has to occur that we know about now from mental health professionals, going back to that point in your life when you had that heavy burden on your mind as a young man, really young man, thinking about Okay, if I don't if I say something wrong, accused of doing something, I could be killed because I mean
speaking to a white woman or whatever that was at that time. Then you go into a locker room that's integrated in East Lancey, you find yourself there, talk about how how that was for you being around those players with your
experience as a young man being what it was back in North Carolina. Well, Jayson, I think I think what helped the transition in the process was was Duffy and and I was a class behind Bubba Bubba Smith and Jean Washington and George Webster and Jimmy Summers h and Jess Phillips, all of the guys that came transitioned out of the South. Uh. I came into class and my host when I visited there was Charlie Matt Dogg thorn Hill, who was a linebacker on the team. UH So I had I got. I got
some counseling and some education from the guys that had come before me. And I think the thing that really helped was the fact that when I went,
freshmen wasn't eligible. Freshmen wasn't eligible. You were separated really from the varsity and you and you stayed in your own little cocoon in practice, and you only got out of that when you went up to the varsity field do to get beat up by the varsity players if they lost, if they lost the game the week the week prior, uh they had the scrimmage against the freshmen,
and they were mad. They didn't want to practice. They were mad because they had to practice against us, so they tried to rutilize us.
But I think the fact that freshmen wasn't eligible making the transition, living in the dorm, making the transition was made somewhat easier by first the collection of fresh and that were there that were in my class, that were that came from the South, we all kind of uh endeared ourselves to the term homeboy, and homeboy took on a real meaning because that meant that all of the black athletes of Michigan State that were from the South, we referred to each
other as homeboy, and that endeared us to one another, and it had the context of we we you got, we had each other's back. And so my experience as a as a freshman going to classes ironic because missus Pauline Adams, who was my American thought and language teacher, became my mentor, became a mentor of mine and for life, she kind of took me under her wing. Uh. And it's ironic that when I was in the South, I was I couldn't talk to a white woman, be near a white
woman. And this lady, her husband was doctor Waller Adams, who was once the interim president or maybe twice the interim president of Michigan State. And she taught in the English department, and she put her she put her wings around me and carried me through my freshman year and helped me all the way through. And we developed a lifelong friendship. And she still I could see her every time I go to these slants. When I called her periodically,
She's one hundred and one years old now, but she is. She was the perfect angel for me. And as I said before, it was ironic that I was I had to avoid white people and white women in the South. But the angel that took care of me and made helped the transition, helped me transition to the Michigan State and at college life, uh was the white lady of missis Pauline Adams. This is this is I got so I mean, I got so many one gratefulness is kind of coming over me.
Of I wouldn't be obviously where I'm at to day, any of us, none of us will be. And it just validates the selection of like, hey, this is this is why I love our school so much, is that it provided us opportunities. And I was born in Austin, Texas, but all my family moved from Mississippi to Flint, Michigan for the automotive industry.
And so you know, I've heard my stories with my grandfather, I've heard you know, racism, and you know, did you encounter anything that was even close to what you obviously countered back at home in this transition or
was campus really that safe haven space of of welcomeness. And basically I really want to know is when you guys went out there to win the national championship, is like, how was campus and how was just the atmosphere of being wearing that green of white truly proud because you were granted that this opportunity to
come play football for the Green and White. Well, it's interesting that you allude to that because we were right in the middle and the heights of the civil rights movement in nineteen sixty four when I came out of high school.
But Michigan State had always had a history of playing by having black athletes, and great black athletes Don Coleman and Lee were Bolden and Ellis Duckett and Willie Thrower, who was the first black quarterback at Michigan's stay in fifty four and fifty five, even though he didn't start, he was the first black quarterback
at Michigan State from New Kensington, Pennsylvania. So when I made the decision to go, initially I was wanting to go to the University of Minneso, Minnesota if I was going to a Division one school, because Sandy Stevens was from played at Minnesota and played in the Rose Bowl and led him to a national championship, and I thought I knew that he played, so I figured if I could go to Minnesota, I would also get a chance to play.
But I went to Michigan State and the campus was the campus was very receptive, particularly to to the black athletes because it was it wasn't that many, wasn't that many black students. They increased that my sophomore and junior year when they started all of the programs in Detroit. But there were no incidents that we encountered that were anything similar to what we had experienced in the South
and doing the gym pro period. So that made football kept us in the cocoon and UH, and then the campus itself was accustomed to being in classrooms with black students, and so the relative acceptance that we received. There were no incidents. Even with the players UH. Most of them were from Michigan,
UH and from Boston. They were from all over the northeast part of the country except for the group of us that came on the underground railroad from the South, and we didn't we didn't encounter We bonded together and I think it took off in nineteen sixty five, and we we won the national championship in nineteen sixty five, which was a great experience. The campus game alive, and we were we were the first team in ten years to get an invite to the Rose Bowl. We went to the Rose Bowl after the sixty
five season. We were ten and zero and number one in the nation and everything was good. Uh. We went to Disneyland and we got out of the snow, and but we did everything. We did everything but win the game. But back during that time, they voted for the national championship. The bowl game was like a bonus. They had already voted US national champions before we went to the bowl game. And we lost the Rose Bowl to
u c. L A fourteen to twelve. Uh, but we were already h annoying a national champions because of the season we had had prior to the bowl games. A little bit different now. So yeah, so you guys, do you feel you guys lost that Rose Bowl because you guys are already national champion here just enjoying your trip. Yeah, we were. We were.
We were rather than rather than splashing on the peer perfume, we were drinking it, you know, we were we were all we were all full of ourselves, and they were blowing us up and jolly green giants from the Midwest. And we were a big football team, Bubba and George Webster and Pat Gallanol and Goober. We were a big team. And we had played UCLA open with them in the first game of the season at home and he's Lansing that year and beat him soundly. And so they were beating us.
Liarry Prime rib who could eat the most prime It's to Disneyland and taking pictures with the with the Disney Parade queen, and we were just eating it up. We were all up on sunset whiskey of Go Go and just like my
kind of party valley right there. Duffy tried to rein us in. He's caught wind of the practices and near the end of the the first week of this week leading up to the game, and he took us up to a monastery up in in uh up in north of Pasadena, and we had to stay in the monastery and the only way we could they took all the courtesy cars away from and he tried to get us back on and even kill but were sluggish and we didn't play well in the game. We didn't play anywhere
near our potential. We lost. We lost the game fourteen to twelve. But it was a fun year and it led It gave impetus to the next year, the nineteen sixty sixth season, which in the Big Ten at that time they had a no repeat rule. You couldn't you couldn't go to the Rose Bowl two years in a row back to back. So when we won the championship, won the national championship in nineteen sixty six, we couldn't play
in a bowl game because we had been the previous year. So they sent the second place team, which was produced to the Rose Bowl, and so we were actually playing. When we started the season, we knew we wasn't going to be able to go to the Rose Bowl, so we were we were playing for the national championship. And it came down to the final game of the year, which now uh has become probably demost talked about game in a long time in history. It was a ten ten tie against snow the
Dame. Yeah. So when you when you guys had when you guys played you know the Purdue, you know you played you know that one black player. Now did he come to you guys like, hey, was that was that that homeboy mentality? You know? No, no, he was the enemy. We didn't get We didn't he went on boy, no, homeboy, homeboy working that day now because he was after me. Uh yeah, he was trying to end my day early. But I was Fortunately I was able to elude him. And it was a great game. Uh it was.
You know, if it hadn't ended in a tie, it probably he would would be forgotten if the team had won. But the fact that there was no the rules were different than they are today. Uh, but there was no overtime period and the game ended and it was you was standing there. It was kind of like, well, what let's play some more what happened? But that's when Duffy made the statement of ties like kissing your sister.
You talk a lot about like Duffy and being an integral part of, you know, the transition from a lot of the players that came from the South to Michigan State. You know, there was a piece with the NFL that talked about Duffy, daughtery and then his trust that he gained amongst the coaches in the South. Yes, Duffy when when Duffy and Bud Wilkinson back in the day were the two nationally known coaching is in the in the country.
Highly respect the coaches in the country, and they had what they called the Kodak Coach of the Year Clinic that they put on all around the country at the end of the football season. And he took the he took the Kodak Coaching Clinic to Texas to Houston, and there were no black no black coaches in it. Uh. The black coaches wasn't allowed to come into the clinic. And so Duffy did the one clinic with the with the white coaches, and then he put the next week he put on another clinic in Houston
for all of the black coaches. UH so they could receive some instruction in the clinic and the information that the white coaches was receiving, and that that started. That started the migration of black players out of Texas and North and
South Carolina. UH in Virginia. That started that the coaches that were allowed to come to the clinic and Duffy welcomed them with open arms, and then the top players that they had, UH they were they were informing Michigan State about them in Michigan State was able to recruit the players based on their association, their relationship with Duffy because of the Kodak Coach of the Year clinic. Man, I mean you could you imagine, like, I mean one are
you talking about? Like even the Coaches Association, Like technically AFCA black coaches ain't allowed to go to the AFCA conventions right like and one of our leaders, our coaches, is not afraid to go against the resistance and be the well Duffie's background was. Duffy's background was and such that he grew up in Bonnsboro, Pennsylvania. His father worked in the coal mine. Then he went to Syracuse and he he was he grew up around black kids. And he
went to college at Syracuse and they had black players. So and he came to Michigan State and Bigiemnt with Big Eiemont and they before they became Michigan State, they were first they was the Agriculture College, but they started recruiting black players to their and their quest to become a member of the Big Ten. So playing black players and being around black players was wasn't wasn't that unique for
Michigan State. And they gained their status into Big Ten because of the integrated teams that they had in the national championships they won in fifty four and fifty five that included black players, and some of the stars on the team were black players. So it kind of the difference with us during the sixty five sixty six season wasn't so it wasn't so much that we were fully integrated team
and it had cohesiveness and camaraderie and played well together. But the outlier was the fact that for the first time it were led by a black quarterback and that position was off limits to blacks. I was the only I was the only black quarterback in the country starting at a Division I school in nineteen sixty six. Wow, and the first to win a national championship. Obviously, Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean you talk about your your mark
on the game itself into our culture as African American men, ourselves. We look at people talk a lot about your influence over Tony Dungee, who ended up hiring guys like Mike Tomlin in the NFL level. Tony Dungee's a kid
from Jackson, Michigan, and watched you when he was young. But I also think about internal spartans like Charlie Baggett that went to your high school and guys like Tyrone Williamham who played on that same team who went on to play a coach A long time as black African American coaches at the collegiate level in
the NFL. Have you had time to reflect now that you have ended your career coaching after three four five decades in the NFL A long time, A long time in the NFL, and look at the impact that you actually have
had on so many that came after you. Well, I did reflect a little bit when the NFL three sixty came to do the piece on me, and there were the fact that there were two black quarterbacks starting in the Super Bowl, and I thought back to the time when when I was drafted by the Los Angeles Rams, and I was told the very first day that they called me that I was going to be switched to defensive back, not allowed to play quarterback. And then, as I reflected on it, the University
of Alabama and all the SEC schools of playing black quarterbacks. And when I was growing up it was illegal to give a black a scholarship. I think Gerald Eviis was the first one that broke that in the Southeastern Conference. I think it was the Southwest Conference then. But I feel some sense of gratitude
and some sense of relief that blacks it was. What it was was a denial of opportunity to say that blacks couldn't play the position because of the lack of intelligence and the lack of smart And now it's unusual as I was the only one playing. Now it's reversed, it's almost unusual. It's a CEO
team that doesn't have a black quarterback. I'm really pleased that we've come along ways in terms of black quarterbacks and Doug Williams and the Super Bowl and all of the guys that Michael Vicks and Donovan McNabb and Randall Cunningham and all of the guys that were given opportunities to play. Hopefully I had a little my
playing that had a little bit of impact on that. Yeah, so coach, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta say this because I heard, you know, we're talking about your coaching, and you know in that video there, you know, it was saying like you know, it's a shame, and so you know, you never got to you know, the opportunity
for a head coach. But you know, I don't know if I heard this somewhere, and can you can confirm or you can deny this this story here I heard that at you were slated to be the head coach at Michigan State, and everything was pretty much wrapped up, and then last minute there was a switcher root and then John l was hired. Well, there there is there is some truth to that I was. I guess I was involved in the in the head coaching search at Michigan State on a couple of different
occasions. UH. In that particular time, I was told that it was I was in the final three, and so I was coaching in Kansas City Chiefs when I went to do the interview at Michigan State. We met in the hotel in the Detroit Airport and Clarence Underwood was on the panel UH of the selection committee, and I I was told at the end of the process is that they would get back to me, and UH had affirmed that in
all likelihood I was going to be the candidate. And then I was looking at the bowl game on TV the week before the week before they were supposed to make the selection, and all the Louisville players were on their cell phones and uh they were calling and calling each other or calling uh their their friends or whatever. And it broke that, uh John L. Smith was who was the head coach at Louisville, was going to be named the new head
coach at Michigan State. And so that's how I found out that I wasn't. I wasn't the finalist. I wouldn't wouldn't have got it was going to get the job. Wow. I mean, as far as we've come with the quarterback position, you know, think about that, we still have a long way to go in regards to head coaching opportunities. That's what she's called. And you said, the lack of opportunity is what you reflect on for
players. Coach, What do you think is going to take for more coaches to get the opportunity to be head coaches, Black head coaches I'm talked about to be able to get those jobs the NFL and even college football. Well, I've I've thought about it a lot, but I think it's going to take some kind of catechismic explosion for to happen or for that to take place.
I think until the owners and the athletic directors and the college as the college administrators understand that diversity is good for business, and hiring black coaches is good for business, is a good business deal right now. They the way that the hiring people and the hiring practices are, they don't feel any any
any consequences, any any any negative consequences for their actions. And as long as they don't feel the negative consequences, and I'm talking basically in pro football in their pocketbooks, uh, in the seats in the stadium, I think we'll we're going to struggle for a while in terms of getting blacks named the head coaching positions. When I was coming along, uh and I was slated supposedly to be the first black head coach in the NFL prior to Art Shell.
The the denial of the opportunity was because well, well he doesn't have head coaching experience was used against me. And the other one was, well they hadn't been a coordinator, so you accomplished. If you had to go be a head coach, you had to go back the college or and that wasn't there wasn't any opportunities there. And then to become a coordinator. That wasn't happening in the NFL, so that was held against against all of us
that were in that era. And but now there are no qualifications to be a head coach. You can be on TV on ESPN and be named a head coach the next week. And the owner said that you don't need experience. You don't need any experience to be a head coach. So the goalpost
keeps changing and the landscapes keeps moving. So now they just they just pick a guy that they said, Uh, some guys have been in the league six or seven years and never been a coordinator, never coached the position, never taught a guy to put his hand in the dirt, but he can
become a head coach. Uh, there's a lot of nepotism going on, and until until there's some some consequences for the actions that are taking place, Uh, we're gonna we're gonna have trouble continuing to feel the position of head coach's position. And I think the only way is going to happen is that the players themselves, because of seventy percent of black and minority in the NFL, and to the players themselves take a stand. I don't think anything will
change MHM. Coach you mentioned, uh, you know obviously the changing landscape of requirements to be a head coach. I guess you've worked for some head coaches, but you know, I mean you're successful coach and leading men and training them to be great pros. What what does it take to be a
great coach? I guess for you, I mean you personally, I feel like one you're telling that story is like, man, you could have been our head coach, paying for you, Like you know, it would have It would have saved us those three years of misery probably would have been We've been well off and and and you know, ten ten wins season in national championships hopefully. But you know, tell us what does it truly take to be a successful head coach? You know from your perspective, Well, first
of all, you know, uh now knowledge knowledge of the game. Uh. There are two different, two different dynamics in college and pro football, but both of them still require a knowledge of the game of football, and and the leadership ability and the leaders and the ability to lead men. Uh. And without those two things, uh, basically you see what is happening
now in the NFL. There's ten coaching jobs every year because at the year and a half for two years sometimes let's in the year they make they're making changes in the head coach. But the ability to communicate, to teach and to show a guy that you can improve him and make him better. Every guy in pro football or in college wants to be be coached to either get to the next level or in college get to the NFL or in pro football
to get to the next big kind of max contract. So once you can, once you are in the position of coaching a young man and you can improve his ability, his skills, and he has trust in you, and he buys into what you're teaching, and you're leading him in the property direction, and you you also have an investment in him in his personal life, not just as a football player. I think all of those things are components of making of a good head coach and they all come back down to leadership
hip and mentorship, uh in the process. Yeah, So you know to that point there about you know that advice there and you know we got at Michigan State. We have an African American head coach, the highest paid you know, African American head coach in college football, Coach Tucker he came off he first, he had a great season. Last year a disappointing season. So what advice would you give to coach Tucker going into this year? Well, I think I think Coach Tucker is is is headed in the right direction.
Uh. He understands the dynamics of what it takes to be successful as a as a as a head coach. Uh. He's a great leader and communicator. Uh, he's invested in the players. I would I would tell him to just stick to his training u uh, don't waiver. Uh. He knows what he's trying to accomplish and how in the road that he has to travel to get there, because he's been in successful programs at LSU and Alabama and Georgia University of Georgia teams that are perennially up there, and he
knows how to build that culture. And as long as his culture sustains itself and he and he he gets the Jimmy and the Joees to go with the Exes and the O's, I think he's gonna I think he'll do fine. Perfect Jimmy and Jimmy's and the Jones matters. Coach, I'm gonna ask you before we let you go man, like you know, in today's college football
with the transfer portal and name image, likeness, players getting paid. Like, what advice can you give guys nowadays that you didn't have to deal with when you were in your career, but seeing it from your perspective with your wiz them, how would you handle today's athlete? Well, that that one is that one is difficult. Uh, the name image and likeness and the transfer potal. Uh. You have to continue recruiting the guys every day, UH, and your staff has to be on top of them every day.
And then you have to be vigilant about watching what is in the in the transfer potal and if they fit your criteria in your environment that you're trying to create to bring them into your program. Mostly, I think I think I think it goes back to education and if you and kids that the young men that they can't lose sight of the fact that they initially signed to go to college to play football, but they signed on to get an education and give
them a chance of a better life. And so many kids are jumping in the transfer pot that get lost, that don't end up uh getting a degree, end up after their time as eligibility is up. They don't. They don't get to the next level that they thought they were gonna get to. I would I would maintain I would take the academic aspect of it, UH and and what is available to the players at the end at the Michigan State University, the facilities, the academic counseling, UH, all of the achievements
that the prep that the prior players have had. I would lean heavily on the education aspect of it, and hopefully that would deter some of the kids from jumping in the portal and jumping UH to other schools thinking that they're going to be a starter and not looking at the academic side of it. That's right, tough landscape to deal with nowadays. For sure, it is for sure because I think UH we had to scrape from if we got five dollars a week. We had to we had to figure out how we were we
were gonna get toothpaste and some smell good uh for the weekend. And I also neve enough to have be able to eat on Sunday when the dining hall closes at two o'clock. It's a lot, it's a lot different. It's a lot different now most every kid gets about nine hundred and fifty dollars guaranteed each month. Uh, it's a it's a little bit different than I don't envy coach Tucker or any of the any of the college football coaches that are dealing with it. But I think, uh, I think Tucker is is
in tune with it, the environment that he's creating. Uh. I think Will uh be steadfast in Michigan State. Will Will get to where he wants to get. He wants to play for the national championship. Absolutely, he sure does. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I appreciate you, uh, you know, joining us. And I got to say, you know, I had the pleasure of being coached by you at the Jets. When
you went to San Francisco, you brought me along there with you. I remember this, you know, when you were let go from San Francisco, we had a conversation and the last thing you said, be careful, I'm not there to protect you. I was back of my pigs and going to Buffalo. I really appreciate all that you know, all the knowledge and everything that you instilled upon me, you know, as a player, taught me how to be a professional, taught me how to you know, take care
of myself at that next level. And I remember one thing that you said. You know, you said, this is the easiest money and the fastest money that a black, a black kid can make legally in America playing the game of football, playing sports overall. And you know, those are some of the knowledge that you instilled upon me at that time. It may not
have looked like I was listening, but I was listening. Well, yeah, well you had a great you had a great journey, and uh, I appreciate being on the show as all, got a great podcast going. And uh i'd like to uh say thank you and say hello to all the Spartan fans of Sparkan Nation out there and go green, go a little, go white, Coach, I appreciate it. Get back to the golf course. Thank you, get him straight, Thank you, bro, allright,
appreciated. Coach. Let me hold something. Then you got that teller bomb man? Let me yeah, I know he got it. I know he got it. An interview man, I mean just a wealth of knowledge, man, Jimmy Ray, I ain't you know every time when I talk to George George Blahave, you know, broadcast partner, I mean he talks in depth. I mean he talks about Jimmy Ray like he can see him when he talks about me. I can see the guy on the field through his
eyes and his energy when he talks about him. Here's some clips from him right here. Man, you're talking about little bootleg. Actually that's what you do on the goal line. You know you still can't stop that on the goal line, I'm telling you. But the look, that's what happens when you have a run game and you're running the eye was it was not the I formation. Look at him? Look at him? Oh yeah, smooth man. I clicked his ankles. You know, it's crazy, like I
I'm trying to think. I think it was Tom who was on that NFL special. Someone gave me the USB drive of the ten ten tipe, the film like the footage, like the entire game, and when I left the Spartan fun, I have misplaced the USB like drive where I'm like that was like that was goal like and I so go when then we have these conversations.
Now it's weird when we talk about the Shrian East East versus West strin game, where initially this thing was segregated and then now you see like one of our very own Ben Van and played in that game, right, so that was a different game. That was that was actually a high school game he played. That's what I'm saying. This was the high school. But like, no, it's still the college college. But like you think about it, where now it's it's it is, uh, it's now you play
ever play you see playing that in that game. But man, that was that gave me so much, not say validation, but it was giving me more dignity and being proud to be on the love a black alone of Michigan State University because just the history, man, like the rich history of you don't know behind that, that struggle in that journey, but that that that's a good picture right there too. Man, where thankfully for Biggie Duffy of just allowing this platform for us to truly go through it. And it's almost
like Jimmy knew that he didn't know. He didn't claim to know, but he knew what he was doing but didn't know. But opening the doors for other black boys watching him coming up. Man, it's crazy. How about how about the fact he could have been the head coach at Michigan State. You saw that's huge. That's breaking news right there. Oh man, I just like Man, I probably would have been I would have had a better probably pro career, man because he would have followed Bobby Williams. He would
have followed Bobby Williams. Yep, oh wow, it would have been we would have had that experience. We would have had the NFL experience. That would have gave us truly vital pieces to get us ready for that next level. Oh Jesus. But instead we had chick You guys, you know straight. I can't look. I know, Bash bashed that regime, but because clearly they gave me a scholarship, gave me opportunity, I can't fault that. But it could have been probably a different trajectory if you had our boy,
Jimmy Ray. We said, homeboy would have had our backs. Yeah, home boys. I like that. Yeah, we found out where the origin of the word comes from. Man. That that was. That was a great interview, guys. Uh ju any final thoughts, No, Man, how can you follow that up? You can't, You really can't to be on there. Yeah, just thankful that we had a chance to get an interview with the great indeligible that what was the name, indelible, indelible, indelible, Jimmy, I love it. I love it man. That
was awesome. Guys. You know so that'll be a a boat on this show. So for Jay you Culchre, Otis Wiley, I'm Jason Straehorn. This is Sparta. Have a good night, God bless go greet while this is Sparta MSU as a combine presentation of Playfly Sports properties in Michigan State Sports Properties. The show is produced by Pete Manez with additional support from Tony Costella Operations and Social media support is provided by Alicia Strayhorn with support from Cecily Max
Brown on location. Technical support is provided by Good Fruit Video. Be sure to follow our hosts Jason Straehorn, Jayu Culchric and Otis Wiley on social media to stay up to date with all the latest This is Smarta news. Please like a subscribe by visiting our link tree and tell a friend to do the same. Thank you for your support and as always, Gogri