The following is a presentation of play fly Sports properties. Your face team that has struggled has the season. It make it easier to get your players attention based on recent results in this rivalry. Yeah, no question, Yeah they really our guys really want to win this. I'm not gonna lie to you. I really want to win it. You know, I have no doubt that if you pulsed every player and every coach on both sides that you know they'd be they tell you the exact same thing. All right, thanks everyone
for being here today. We all know what this week is. It's not just another game for us. Our players understand that, our staff understand understands that. Now, I know what you're thinking. In two thousand and nine to twenty thirteen, when I was there, did Michigan State Donkeys. Yes, there's no question, And I'm not here to talk about when I was there. I'm here to talk about now Michigan's number two defense in the country.
I'm not here to talk about Georia's number one Michigan Michigan the Boys in Blue are the number two defense in the country. Our offense, yeah, they say we're run heavy, they say we do that, but our past games really coming along. Overall, Michigan State is going to get donkeyed at home in East Lancing. Whatever that po dunk count is, they're going down. Michigan's going home taking Paul Bunyon and kindly, I'm not going to see the effort, but Michigan State. You know what I'm saying, not going
to see the F word, but Michigan State. Okay, well, well, well, it is officially hate week here in East Lansing. The big game this weekend in the big House against the school down the road is upon us. This is Sparta. I'm your host, Jason Strayhorn, along with my co hosts Otis Wiley and jau Choo Chu. Call credit. Guys. Everyone knows the seriousness and the emotions that go on in this game. And hey, you guys were even at a table gate ceremony earlier this week.
Talk a little bit about this game and what it means to you from your perspective as a player, and I also an alumni michign Stay, yeah, it's a I'll go first. It's a big game. It's a game where you know you don't like those guys down the road, they don't like you. Everyone knows that, and uh, when you even's just a different feeling, you know, coming into this week, when when it's uh, when it's hate week, the start of it, you just as an extra bounce
in your step. The air smells different, you know, the wind blows different, people act different, and you just got to embody that, embrace that and get ready to go. And you know, as a player, that's how it was as a fan. Now as a former player, it's still the same. I think the hatred grows even more once you're out of it and you've just seen it because you have no control on what goes on on the field and you have idiots talking. You know, you got that
guy brailing. He's doing a lot of talking. But the thing with him is, you know if you talk back or clap back him, he's gonna have his dad come on and you know try to fight you. So, yeah, is gonna call daddy to come. You know, come daddy. You're talking fall about me when you doing any thing up on them, you know that's what he does. He's gonna do all this Taylor Lujan's gonna do all the talking and everything like that. But you're seeing a lot of Spartans
are just keeping the notes of the grindstone, getting ready to go. Oh yeah, man, any any Spartan or any player who uh who's played and grew up here in the state of Michigan. I sometimes question my own self hatred. I absolutely have a deep patriot. Like sometimes I'm like, is
it that? Is it that serious? No, it's serious. Like I honestly, you know, you saw me at the table the table gate today at the Skyline Club, and you know, everyone's kind of getting their their answer that's kind of clean, and I'm like, I'm already sweating my but my blood's boy, and like I threatened probably three people in the in the stands people to go suit up. Yeah, I said, go suit up.
I'm talking all that cash. And you know, it's one of those where this is for the people, the kids that are on the playground. And I don't know if the kids still playing the playground, but growing up all the stuff you got to deal with with the house divided and you know, you know, little brother comments and you know, I absolutely have a deep hatred. It says, don't hate your enemy, you know, but
I do. I really do. And this is to Jay's point, this is a game that all other ones like, I don't care about any other game. It's that one. Is that one, is this one this weekend, and I'm looking forward to it, man, And hopefully I don't catch a case in that set in the stands. Right this week you got to do everything. We have to be on the verge of a rage. We can't go overboard because we can not. Before the bailout, any spartans in ann Arbor, MI will be We'll be gone, it will be done.
Bail out. We'll come get you. But let's listen, let's get take it to the edge. Look over that edge, but don't go over all right, don't don't don't dive over like some people having the pass. You know, this Saturday is gonna mark one hundred and fifteenth matchup between Michigan and Michigan State. Obviously, you know it's for the Paul Bunyan Trophy. You know right now, Paul has been at home for the last two years.
Mel Tucker the first coach in Michigan State history to go to and up his first two games, actually the first one to win the first one, and obviously the one first guy coach to win two in a row. He's trying to be the first one to go three and zero against the Wolverines. As he goes into this Saturday's matchup, there will be the seventieth time the two
teams play for the trophy. As you gentlemen just talked about, you know, we have a lot of things to break down, and right now we're gonna go right in to our Sparta inside look presented to you by I Hop. The two by two by two records combo equals one delicious meal. Enjoy two pancakes, two eggs your way, and two pieces of bacon for only five dollars only at Eye Hop. Hurry in and enjoy this deal for a limited time dining in only. Price and participation may vary. Restrictions do applied.
And guys, you know, to help us break down this weekend's game in this matchup, I mean, you know a lot of people talk about take the records and throw them out right. It doesn't matter what the records are right now. You know we've had a down year, they're undefeated. Does that matter? It doesn't matter. Who better to talk exs and o's with us than the one and only. Don't call me TJ No more what out what I gotta say this before one of my first introduction to this game.
Uh, you know a kid from New York, you know, so I'm not like you. Oh and you lived it, you breathed it, born into it. Same thing with you, Duck. I watched that Michigan State Michigan game back when you were playing Duck, and one time, I think it was Cato June tackled you. He fell and he tried twisting your ankle and you kicked him square in the face mask there. I was like, Oh, it's real now, this is this is happening that week. Man, it's that week. And like what you were saying earlier, I
think Otis said it. You don't really think about it throughout the year. It's just kind of goes. And you know, I got family, I got friends who went to Michigan whatever. But when all of a sudden, the clock strikes midnight on Sunday, all the I mean just think hairs on the back of my next stick up. And to this day, it's just like wives, I'm ready to go. I'm looking at people funny. I mean, I'm ready to go. It's game time, without question, So
talk about your experience. I mean, you grew up in Kalamazoo, right, yeah, on the west side of the state of Michigan. You know, your brother played at Michigan State. You know Tiko, We know that as a as a great running back. Talk about growing up as a young child in Kalamazoo and what did you remember. What was your first memory of this riffle? Well, my first memory was watching my brother, watching him play in this rivalry and not knowing the magnitude of it until that week.
And you got neighbors talking trash, you got the mail man, you had everybody talking trash, and I'm like, is it really that big? And then I watched the game and I remember the game that I remember is the ninety game when Tico actually the game winning touchdown and then Desmond dropped the ball in the end zone. So there was a lot of controversy, a lot of commotion and this, I mean, that's when I realized that that was it was a thing. And then over time, it was when I when
I was when I thought I was going to Michigan State. That was a game that every time it was on the schedule, you circled it. You did your best not to look ahead to it, but that was one that I mean, it meant everything. And to be able to to play that game and know that everybody in the state has a side. They're they're either a Michigan, a Michigan State fan, or they like the other guys. So when it was my time to get here, I just wanted to have my name in it. I wanted to be able to leave a mark.
I wanted to be able to actually have an impact in that game. In my freshman year, Billy Burk in Plexico got off, so I got a chance to see it. And then my sophomore year we went down there and then in it it an't turned out as well, uh for us. And then my junior year, I mean it was it was I had a rough one, man, my, my, my, uh my sophomore year, you know, I went down they had they had a goal line stance. I fumbled down there and I had to sit with that in my soul for
three hundred and sixty five days. And uh, I mean, motivation is a monster, and and I just knew when that time came, it was on. And the other beauty for it for me was my mother passed in March of my freshman year and her birthday is November first, so that in the game were pretty much the same time. So in my mind, the Wolverines did it. That's how I went in the game. Y'all did it, and now we got to pay the price for it. Oh it was
right. Well, let's let's get to the nity gritty because you have the shirts that I saw on social with this one second left on the clock, plenty of time. That's a whole quarter. That's a whole quarter. Like talk about that that that that week leading up to that game right in Spartan Stadium, Like what was the buzz because right now our guys right now have
been preparing for this game. But like, let the outsiders Spartan nation know, like what was happening leading up to that week and then to end on that prize moment of that game when he touchdown, Like, talk about that. Yeah, I mean it was a special week. We were struggling a little bit that year. We didn't really start the year out like we wanted to. And then Wisconsin game the game before that, uh, Tyrell Dort he broke his ankle and that kind of geled us together and we said to
play some good football. And then when that week hit, we had a little more confidence and everybody was moving a little bit different in practice. Coaches were a little bit louder, players were moving a little bit faster. And I mean that you got one time to make a play, you got one time to have that game, and then you get five six days to work on it. So everybody we were eating it, we were breathing it.
I mean, it was it was that time. And then when the game came, I mean the locker room, it was just it was a look in our eyes. You could see that we were prepared. We were ready mentally, our mind was there, because football is all about your mind, your mind and your will. Everybody lifts, everybody runs, but when you get your mind right and you are focused and determined to make plays and to win, you give yourself a real opportunity. And they were doing great.
I think they were fifth or six in the country at the time when they came in East Lansing, and I mean we were ready for them. We were ready, and we knew we could play, and you know, started to make some plays. And for me personally, like I said, this game always and will forever be personal to me. So going into this game that week, I mean, there's nothing. It's like a war. You may come out alive, you may come out wounded, but we're gonna come
out of that mug on top. That's with my mentality. So douc. Since this is the real Insiders show, the real dogs are sitting like we're in the barbershop here. So from the outside looking in, when people saw that game and that last play, a lot of people remember one second, the catch and everything, but let's taken inside deep dive. What was the mood in the huddle with one second left? And what was the call?
What was the play call? Man? It was? It was. It was so calm and so cool in the huddle, and like two players before that, we actually ran same plan. I don't remember the name, but I know it was an empty backfield. Me and Chuck were on Charles Roders were on one side, and I ran a slant and I caught the ball, got the first down, moved the chains, and then the next play,
Smoker at Jeff Smoker had the ball. And you know one thing that people don't really talk about that's amazing was what Smoker's awareness, his awareness to get everybody on the line of scrimmage and the down the ball. He wasn't panicking. He knew that, he knew the situation, he knew the down, and he knew everything and for to get everybody in line and to be able to down the football to give us a chance to make that play. And then when that play came, I mean it was we ran the same
play. The slant was on the left that I caught. We ran the same same play. I was on the right side. And you know, I mean, in my mind, it's going to the best receiver ever at Michigan, Charles Rogers. It's going to do And I'm running my slant and I see the ball in the air, and you know, I'm just thankful I was able to catch it. Ideally, I'm like, give me the ball, let's run a power and let's way who you mino, Let's go.
And they wasn't gonna stop me that play. But you know, you get you get to your goals differently sometimes, right, I mean talking about that under that ball was in the air, you know, for the fan, the casual fan looking at it was in the air for about two three hours. Man. You know a lot of guys, you see in that moment fumble that boy, especially in the moment that big they just down their leg and they don't make it happen, right, But you somehow it just
seemed like it was No. It was like a you know, I'm cool, man, I'm cool, common collective, you know what I'm saying. No, But that's the moment you practice since you're like a five year old, you're playing the game. You're in your backyard, you're three two one, and you're catching the ball? Are you jumping in your couch catching? Like? Those are things that you just play around and you practice with. And then I remember after the play was called, I go and line up
in my spot and I'm like, it's one second on the clock. It's fourth quarter. We're playing these guys. Wow, we're here. There's a chance I might actually get a chance to catch the ball. And I do my thing, run around, smoke, running around, and I see the ball in the air, and I'm like, this is it coming to me? Is this coming to me? In the closer guy? And it took
forever, man, you know you said two three hours. I mean there in front of me, there's people around, but the crowd goes silent, and I just look at that ball man, and I was just cradling it, like come on, come on, and you know, yes, thankfully I caught it, cause we it would be a different conversation if I did it. Look, I don't I don't think this gotta be a history like two brothers, same team having two winning game and like touchdowns and beating that
team down row like Tico did it with the run. Yeah, I feel like it's never been done. But like I mean talk about Yeah, that's gotta be like that's a fact, Like that's one of those non facts spark history boys there. Man. Yeah, I mean you know Tico, I mean, that's that's my guy. Man. When he's sec third all time leading rusher at Michigan State. And to be able to have watched him, to have to be able to watch a guy like that and he's your family
member, to that that makes that makes greatness possible. And I'm looking at but I also see everything that he did, all the work, all the time, the effort, the things that people don't see behind the scenes. I saw that happening. And so in my mind, if I'm able to do that same work, do I get a chance to have the same opportunity. And and again like you think sometimes yes I was God give him blessed. Yes, And you think things are given to you, but you go
and earn these things in the darkness. You're go and earn them. You work, and then all of a sudden that work. It shows when you get the opportunity, when you're preparation meets opportunity, you shine. And that's what it was, man. And you know, I'm so thankful for not just Tiko, but my mom and my dad for instilling the work ethic of what it means to be a success and the grind and the day to day commitment to yourself and believing in yourself. I mean, that's that's huge for
me. Yeah. Man, that that's you know, really really good, really powerful stuff. So moving to this game, and you know we talked about you know, Tecos winning run about you catching the ball for it. This rivalry is really the tone has been set by the running backs. You know, in this rivalry, it's like whoever rushes for the most yards tend to win the game. So with you know, those guys down the road they have a very talented running back, We're going by running back by committee
here right now. So what do you think is gonna take on Michigan State side? You know, to win this game on Saturday. In my opinion that this game, again x's and o's are very very important players. Being healthy is very very important understanding your assignment. But it's the will football, especially running the ball. We are going to run the ball right here? Can you stop it? Can you stop it? And if you aren't able to stop it, you're gonna be in trouble. So both sides are seeing
whose will is stronger, who's ready for this? Who does it mean more to? And again, records are out the window. Whatever you did last week is out the window. So in this moment, who does it mean more to it? First intent is starting one who doesn't mean more to is the offensive line and the defensive line. Who's gonna win at that point when you were running back and you have the ball and as a linebacker in the hole, who's going to win? Who wants it more? And that's what
this game is all about. And that's the difference is getting caught up in that emotion and actually utilizing that emotion to your strength and and and really punishing whoever's in front of you. That's the game of football. This comes down in my mind has always been in the will. Your mind, your will. My sophomore year when I we were in at Arbor, I don't know if my mind was already there. I don't know. That was my first time being a starting running back in that in the in this game, and
it's different. It's different. But after going through it and understanding what it meant and what it took in that role that I had being the starter my junior year in two thousand and one, I knew what it meant going in there, and I knew where we were at as a team, But ultimately our mind, where was our mind set? And who was gonna who was going to have the stronger mind? And all this talking that we do the whole week. It's fun, especially not playing because they ain't got to hit
me no more. But going into that game, are you mentally prepared to go to war with your neighbor? So I want to follow up to that one. I'm sorry, guys, I'm stealing a lot of the questions here, but this is, you know, great count. But so you talked about your sophomore year, your mind, you don't know if it was there or not, but you had seen, you had lived it through your brother playing that you had lived at. You know, your freshman year you watched
the win. Then your sophomore year you don't know if it was there. So with the Michigan State team now, a lot of transfer guys that are in who have not been a part of this. All they've done was here about this. Yeah, you know, we got two guys in the backfield who you know, never been a part of this rivalry, this Michigan Michigan State rivalry, they've never been a part of. We got some online, we got some other guys. What do you say to them to get their
minds into it? Two things Now, in this new transfer portal, they got a lot of guys that haven't been in this rival either. So it's not just us. So then it comes down to what does it mean to be a spartan dog, Like, what does it mean for you, for your family, for your teammates to be a part of Michigan State's football team. That's what you play for and that's what that should be, what you
play for every day every time you step on the field. Yeah, it's great to have, you know, play the other guys down the road and have that extra juice. But when you are out there and you're representing not only the name on the front of your jersey, but the name on the back of your jersey, that's what matters. So every time you get running the Michigan State running backs, when that number is called, you start you
representing yourself. You represent us Spartan. Now, the first time one of them guys hit you in the mouth, you're like, all right, so you out here playing that should make you mad, Like I'm upset now that you hit me. And now I'm not representing my team. I represent myself, but I really don't like you guys either now. So now I'm a part of the rivalry and let me see if I can go make some plays. Absolutely, I mean we talk a lot about running backs, and I
mean YouTube. You know obviously you TJ and Jayu both being in the backfield at Michigan State and having great careers going off to the NFL. You look at the other side, You look at those guys down the road and they have two running backs and Blake Korum and Donathan Edwards that are gonna last week, two weeks ago when they played Penn State, which I'm buying for over
four hundred yards on the ground running the ball. Now what it seems you hear the comments, the pregame comments of both Jim Harbaugh and Mel Tucker, and they're both talking about game tackling, bringing population to the ball carriers and all that. So it looks like there's gonna be a high emphasis because they all know everybody knows about taking the runaway. Whoever wins that running battle. However, TJ you played, You've had the pleasure of playing with not only
spartan great in Plexico Burroughs in his prime time. I think he had two hundred and fifty five yards against the Michigani a freshman year. And then you also had the distinct pleasure of playing with probably all time greater spartan that were receiver of all time in Charles Rogers. You look at this game and if things get canceled out on the running side of the ball, running game, it's about that passing game, right, You guys are going to open up
the passing, That's what we're talking about. Peyton Thorn, is he going to be able to do what he needs to do down the field with the Jaden Reed, the Keon Coleman, A Trey Moseley versus a J. J. McCarty who hasn't really thrown it down the field as much. What do you think? What do you see playing out in this game? You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you, you know, Plex amazing player,
Chuck amazing player, great receivers. But what you know, what they don't What isn't I guess not really mentioned the whole lot, especially in this in this you know weakened things is how tough they are. I mean there were some tough, tough uh plex and I think with David Terrell, he played him at corner. You remember what Plex did to him. I mean this again, Yeah, we go and catch the ball, but but they these were the toughest receivers and they knew what time it was, so they are
out here making blocks. I mean they are out toughing. I mean that's what it's about. Like, yeah, they can go and make plays, but who is going to be the from a receiver standpoint, Who's gonna set the tone. Who's gonna go out here and say I am a receiver whatever, but I'm blocking, I'm downfield I'm making plays not just when the ball is coming to me, but away from the ball. And I think that's gonna be the difference. We're going to see who got the toughest receivers.
I mean that's what this game. This game is a fistfight. Man. It's not a pretty boy game. This one. This is a straight fight. And and even when when Chuck was playing, I mean they they're triple quadruple team in Chuck keep making plays like that's not normal. I mean, it's about who's tough. And then when you get the opportunity to make him play, you stay focused, you stay calm, you stay cool, and you play the game of football, but you you channel that emotion that tough.
Again, it's about being tough. I don't care who ran for four hundred yards last week. That'll that'll help you this week, that'll have't. I don't care what you get five years ago to I don't even care what you do next week. That ain't gonna help me today or Saturday. When they walk into this the stadium, who is saying is making that I Am going to be the toughest player on the field today. Back speaking of these tough receivers, you know, someone's got to get them the ball right straight.
So why don't we bring in, you know, expert on throwing the football around some guys. I think we almost got enough to put together a team here. Let's see, let's just go out there and suit us going on. I'm doing well, guys, good to see you, Bill Burke joins us. You know, Bill, let's just jump right into it. I mean, you had a pretty decent day against these guys. Now, bro, when you've played see year you had a young TJ. Duckett who's right on hand, and he also had Plexago. There was two fifty five
I think receiving. Did you have four hundred on the day. Yeah. Those are some record numbers all the way around, and you know, it was a lot of fun and I think, uh, you know, I have such fond memories of that game. We talk a lot about it, you know, over the years, and it's hard to believe it's it's been, you know, so long, but you know, we had such good balance on offense. You talk about Plexico and he's a you know, he's
a little bit of a unicorn. He was six six, two thirty and was fast and long and as you guys have talked about really dominated that game in ninety nine. But then we've got, you know, a guy like TJ, who is also you know, kind of one of a kind in his own right on the ground and as a freshman, TJ played so well and we ran the ball overall as an offense so well that day. It
was just it was just a memorable game all the way around. And there's so many different components and elements to why that game was so special, and not just in Spartan history, but you know, for me personally, I mean, you had the crowd, which I never, you know, have experienced a crowd like that in Spartan Stadium. It was just absolutely electric. And we haven't even discussed yet really the defensive side of the ball, guys like Robert Smith and Eric Morris, in that linebacking corps, I mean,
Julian Peterson, who was a first round draft pick. I mean that that was a great day to be a Spartan dog, and it was certainly a
great day to be a Spartan fan as well. Bill. You we were talking about the huddle man, and like you know, we like to bring in a little insider of like let Spartan nation, know, like what's going on in the huddle and you know with that crazy amount of noise, you know, we're going into the big house, and which, by the way, I don't think is that that that loud compared to other places with you on that right right, But I guess talk to us about being the quarterback
and kind of commanding that huddle when all the craziness is around. You got to keep everybody composed. You know. Obviously for that game, you know, you were putting up numbers. You guys were dogging that defense. I feel like what was going on in the huddle as you're getting calls and you're calling in and you're talking to the offensive linement and getting people in their right
position. But like, talk to us about that. Yeah, I think it's important as a quarterback, you know, to you know, there's a delicate balance there. You don't want to just go silent and say nothing, but you've got to just you know, pick and choose sometimes to you know, maybe just give everybody a fist bump or say, hey, guys, you know this is is an important down right here. We've got third and four. Let's get this. You know, it's gonna push into the red
zone or whatever it is. I'm you got to kind of make everybody just aware of the situation, because you tend to kind of lose sense of, you know, those small little details out there, you know, when you're just focused on your own assignment and you've got you know, seventy five thousand people screaming around you, and you know, it's it's tough to kind of
occupy all sorts of different things at once inside your mind. So as a quarterback, you got to be, you know, not just thinking about what you got to do, which you got to be thinking about what everybody else has to do, what they're feeling. You got to try and read the body language of some of the guys in the huddle. But fortunately in a game like that, you don't have to do a lot of motivation. You know, guys they are ready from the beginning, and you know they've been
there before too. It's kind of comforting to see some of the guys, you know, who are veterans who have been in those big games before and just how calm they were in those situations as well. Because then as a quarterback, you don't have to do as much, you know, emotional regulation for the other guys. But you know, we had we rolled with a great group that year. I think, you know, coming to ninety nine at home, in the game that we beat Michigan from the previous year just
overall where we were a little more inconsistent. I think as a team, our record certainly didn't end up the way we would have wanted it at the end of the year, and we were really searching for i think our identity as a team and certainly offensively. So ninety nine when when you know, the number three Wolverines into town, we were more than ready and you know, we felt, I think from early on in that game that that was just going to be our day. We weren't going to walk off the field
without a win. And you know, it was just good. It was great for me to be in the middle of it, but still kind of be a fan of my teammates. You know, I had a lot of fun standing on the sideline watching those defensive guys just harassed guys like Tom Brady and Drew Henson and get big sacks and bring the crowd to their feet.
I mean, it was really amazing to see all the great plays that were made by so many different players on that day, including TJ as a freshman who you know, got it. I think he got us our first touchdown on that day and that just started the momentum and kept us rolling. And even though the roller Rings, you know, made a valiant comeback towards the end of the game, we were just too much for them on that day. And like I said, there's no way we were going to be denied.
Yeah, you know so. So I'm going to ask both of you this, But Bill, for you, what was the most I guess the toughest environment in college you played in? Oh? Wow, I would probably say. I was thinking about this the other day. I was watching some games with my son, and I would have to go with a happy valley at Penn State. You know, I don't know what is it, one hundred and nine thousand people, but those fans really are you know, they
they're they're in it from the start to the finish. At least they were, you know when I played there. I don't know whether it's the way that the stadium is set up or whether it's just the energy of each individual fan, but it doesn't hurt when you you know you're playing against guys like as you know, Stray, Courtney Brown, LeVar Arrington. That was one
of the I think top two toughest defenses I ever played against. So when you combine that in an environment like Beaver Stadium, I would say that's that's the toughest road test that I ever went up against. Okay, DJ, Yeah, that's another great question, man. I definitely. I mean, you know, there's there's a couple of them. I mean, Happy Valley is definitely tough. We went down there and Jumper Turno in the crew. They started playing that dang lion and they started having that lion roaring. Yeah.
Yeah, that And then we went to uh Wisconsin and you got run and then that jump rounds crazy. I mean, you go to Purdue and they got that big old drum they keep for whatever reason. I was just in my ear the whole game. So, I mean, I think I think that's what makes the Big Ten special. It's wherever you go, no matter if it's a rivalry or not, if you're playing a team out of the Big Ten, it's gonna be tough wherever you go. I mean, Iowa, I mean everywhere, it's hard. I mean that, but that's
what again makes the big ten what it is for me? Yeah, like this is are we already know? Like I wake up, we talked about midnight and right when it strikes twelve oh one, Like I'm ready to go, Like, let's go, right, So let's talk about your households, man, Like are your kids and your families that you're growing up you're raised in Spartans, right, but like are they as invested as we are?
Like talk about talk about that? Well, for me, you know this goes back to you talk about you know, you roam around the state of Michigan and get you've got Michigan fans sprinkled around everywhere, and you know, houses are divided and all that stuff. But you know it, definitely there's a difference between people who are Spartan fans. But you know, they don't
necessarily despise Michigan. They can they can tolerate them in certain circumstances. Or maybe you hear people say, well, you know, I pull for Michigan or the Michigan teams in general when they're not playing the Spartans and things like that. We don't operate that that way here. As in my household and certainly my two kids are even more so adamant and hard lined when it comes to Michigan than I am. Even so I don't know if I overtly uh
taught them that or you know, uh imposed that on them. I'm sure I did, but there is no there's no straddling the line and not even close in my household. They they know that we bleed green and white, and anything that's that's blue and yellow, it's out the door. So they're gonna be more ready than I am. Yeah, the same were the same exact way I tell my kids, don't even put them colored legos together. I don't like, you can't wait that that outfit either no or so we
yeah, all the way. I came right with a blue pen, like they tried to give me a blue pen and write my city today. I was like, yeah, I totally totally agree with you guys there, and I think we all feel the same way here. I can't stand those people that say, oh, well, if Michigan's playing in a ball game, then they're in the Big Ten. I'm going to root for them. No, I don't want them to win. If this a the Big Ten is going to be the powerhouse. If Michigan wins this game. I don't care.
We don't have to be the powerhouse then, you know, And it's the same thing you guys. My daughter's a little too young to understand it, but I have that battle with my wife. My wife's from Canada, so she doesn't, you know, know, the true river and stuff. Like one time we went to the we're getting a gift for someone and she had a bag and she got blue and yellow and blue stuff and paper for I was like, that's not gonna work. We gotta get something. She's
like, it doesn't match. I was like, I don't care, but we're going this. There's no gray area, man. So we all know we've been struggling right from the season, but it doesn't matter with this week. It doesn't matter if we were defeated and we didn't have any wins on the collar or you know, talk about the what is it going to take for them to go down there and experience what we've experienced. And you know, they're always highly talented, they're always ranked, they're always the favorite or
we're the underdog. But like, go into that locker room talk to them about the you know, what is it going to take to truly win this game from you guys' perspective as an experience. But like you're the coach, you're you're male. Right now, what are you telling these guys daily? Yeah, well, I mean, but I would I would say, you know, first of all, we got to have fun. Bottom line, let me this, this game is about fun in this particular game here,
as a as a Spartan dog Michigan State player, we are. We have no pressure. There's no pressure on us, baby. We just need to go and have fun, play the game you play, do what you do, have fun. There's no pressure at all. So go back, go back in the time when you remember when you can actually enjoy the game. And yeah, it's been a rough year, but that's life too, so
so what can what? Today is a day we have an opportunity to go into an opponent's home and quiet everybody up, shut everybody up, playing a fun game that we all love, and get on the bus with Paul buye call today. But again, there's no pressure, there's no pressure. Just go and do what we just play that fun. Bill. Yeah, I'm
with you, the same thing. I mean, you go down there, there's absolutely no everybody outside of East Lansing has written Michigan State off in this particular game, and that I think is because they don't understand when players get together, they're in this situation, they're in this rivalry. They feel like
everybody else has written them off. There's absolutely nothing else to do but to take on that challenge, have some fun playing the game, because, like TJ said, there's absolutely no pressure on you everybody, especially to lose anyway. You know, straight, you're familiar with that situation. When we went down to Columbus in ninety eight and we're twenty eight point underdogs. It's the same thing. You can go in there and have some fun and let it
all hang out without worry about making mistakes. You know, the team that's ranked higher, that's it's you know, undefeated. They're in the conversation for the College Football Playoff and the Big Ten Championship. They're the ones that have to ratchet up the pressure and keep winning in order to keep their status with all those other things. So yeah, and it's fun. You know, you're as a warrior, as a Spartan, you know, you like the
challenge of you against the world. You're hopping on a bus or a plane. You're going to the enemy's environment, their stadium. Everybody's going to be against you that challenge. If you're a competitor, I think it's fun to walk out of there with a win, silenced the one hundred thousand people, and show everybody that you could do the impossible. Yeah, you know, so you know that's a great, great point, Bill, And I'm going to ask you because you know, we talked about a little bit before you
came on the show. And for me, in my opinion, I think that Michigan State actually matches up better with Michigan than a lot of other teams because the Achilles heel, as we all know from Michigan State, has been the defensive secondary and the ability to defend the pass. If there is a strength for Michigan State, it's the ability to stop the run. So it appears to me that Michigan's going to try to come in here and just run
it down. Michigan State's throw just trying to run it down a throw, you know, with the running backs, but they're going to I think that the counter would be just low the box, right, I mean, and force JJ McCarthy to beat us. Now, as a quarterback, your eyes typically are going to go to what the quarterback's doing. You've watched Bagan Thorne, I'm sure, and maybe when you were, I don't know, in flipping through the channels, you happen to catch a glimpse maybe of JJ McCarthy.
You know, he's the new air parent after Kate McNamara was benched, have to take him to a Big Ten title and you know college football playoffs. How do you assess those two quarterbacks? And obviously JJ's ability to beat Michigan State with his arm given what you've been able to see so far this year. Yeah, I don't think he's there yet. I think he's got a lot of talent. He's a young guy. But when you're a young guy, you tend to not get to number three, number four in your
progression, and you don't tend to handle pressure all that well. Now, when you get to be a wily old veteran and you're a fifth year senior and you've seen it all and you're almost wanting or welcoming the blitz because you know you can take advantage of it. I don't think McCarthy's there yet.
He might one day get there, but I think if coach Tucker and Scotty Hazelton have a great plan on defense, you know, combining stacking that box, putting the emphasis on stopping the run, and then having some creativity in terms of rattling him. I think that'd be a great approach, and I agree with you. Then on the other side, you got Peyton Thorn, who's been there, He's had a great season last year, He's got some more experience, and I heard you guys talking earlier about what it's going to
take to win the game. I think because each team is going to put an emphasis on the physical side of the game and running the football, I think it's going to come down to who can make and maybe specifically which quarterback can make the most number of plays over say fifteen or twenty yards. And I think the advantage, as you referenced Stray, is Peyton Thorn in that regard, because I just don't think that McCarthy at this point, he's done
a great job doing what he's been asked to do. But again, I think he's still i'll use the word green in terms of his experience, so that I think that he's got a little ways to go there. So I think there is I think there is a week spot that we can take advantage of on the defensive side. And if you're asking me, you know which team has the advantage in terms of the quarterback position, I think it's got
to be Michigan State. Yeah. So sticking with that quarterback stuff, you know, Peyton has he struggled, to say the least early in the season. But this pass game against Wisconsin a couple of weeks ago, you I think that was his best all around game of the season. He's starting to get that communication with his receivers and that time and with his receivers. Bill you played the position, how important is it for that quarterback wide receiver communication
and time and standpoint? You know, anytime one of the guys on your offensive side of the ball that is not in the lineup, it affects you. It really does. Whether it's you know, your star number one receiver or whether it's your center. You know, in my center used to go down. It changes everything. You know, puts that little thought in your
head that you know, do I do I trust the second guy? You know, is a snap going to be the same In Jaden Reid's case or receivers case, is he going to run that hook route exactly the way that I'm used to. Is he going to run into thirteen yards instead of twelve yards? You know, you want to be able to trust the guys that
you're going to battle with and that you've been working with. So it's huge when you get your top receiver back, and those guys have been together a long time, well before Michigan State, So to get him back, I think that really you could see Peyton Thorn just kind of have a little better
body language. You could see him just to have a little more pepinist step because you know you can go to that guy when the pocket breaks down, when it's a crucial time in the game in the fourth quarter, you know that you don't have to be perfect because he's going to go up there and make a play. So I don't think that can be understated how important it is to have that type of connection and guys that you can trust, especially
in big games. I mean, guys, I mean, I guess we would be remiss if we didn't ask you guys, like what do you see happening? Hey, look, we're just gonna put it out there table right now on Saturday. Here it is this Saturday night night game, Arbor. I'm sure you know if you're not there, you're gonna be well oiled, ready to go, juiced up right along with a lot of Spartan Nation and
those guys down the road. How do you think this game comes out at the end of it to seven thirty kickoff on a DC and Spartan Media network by the way, Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think it's gonna be a beautiful day for for Spartan Nation. I think we're gonna go out there, We're gonna start making some plays, and then that confidence is gonna start to flow. I think the defense, I think they're gonna step up big because they have been challenged a lot this year. And I think there
are running backs. I think our running backs are gonna make this a coming out party. I'm I feel good. I feel good about this game. And uh yeah, and it's a night game. I mean every to me, everything has been is lining up to have Michigan State be a success this Saturday. M hmm, freaks come out at night. Well, I mean, oh yeah, twenty four to fourteen go green. But I don't,
I don't. I don't think we haven't played a complete game yet, like I mean, we have we have not had that game where like offense, defense, special teams, we haven't had that yet. And I think, you know, struggling throughout the year the beginning of the season, players were heard things weren't going well. That West Coast trip, a lot of things
were just out of order. And then to have some guys come back, to be able to get a tough win under our belt, and then to be able to have a week to like watch the film and heal up and actually tweak some things, and then for it to be the guys down the road who get to see us after this bye week. I mean, I think it's perfect. And at the same time, you know, the guys down the road, there's a lot of pressure on him. There's a lot
of pressure on him. And if they think they're playing Michigan State that started the season, they're going to be in for a rude awakening because that's not who's going to be walking in to that stadium. Well, the post the same question to you, Bill, Yeah, I'm with you. I think that you know, people the perception is that Michigan seven and zero, Michigan State is three and four, and so because of that there's this huge gap between the two schools, you know, and it looks that way maybe on
paper, but I don't see it that way. I never have. I don't think when you're at this level, when you've got two very talented big ten rivals, I think the gap in the margin in between the two, just in terms of potential is razor thin. Despite the records. And then we've talked, of course a lot already about how when big rivals get together, you throw the records right out the door, and I think it's because of all the intangible, the things that you can't put on paper or measure
on paper. So I think TJ alluded to it. You know, we haven't put together a game where we've lived up and almost or fully maxed out our potential. And I think given the bye week, I think getting healthy and just kind of having some time to process what's happened already this season puts us in a great position to go down there without any pressure to put it all together, to put together a near complete game, make some big plays, and come out of there with the win. I think the timing is
perfect. I don't think anybody expects Michigan State to go down there and pull out the win. But you got to look at kind of how the ebbs and flows of football teams happen. You know, Michigan State is excuse me, Michigan has been just kind of rolling along ever since last year they went to the College Football Playoff. They're undefeated this year. It's just kind of
ho home weekend and week out. Even when they get down a little bit early in their games, they tend to pull it out somehow and overtake the teams that they're playing. However, the teams that continue to consistently do that throughout the entire season and run the table, that's extremely difficult to do,
extremely difficult to do. So when you line them up against your in state rival, who's had a down year, who hasn't put together their complete game, who hasn't lived up to their potential, yet, things really line up really well. I think for Michigan State to not only go down there and compete and make it a game in the fourth quarter, but to actually make enough big plays to come out of there with the winning they've got. It's
not like the difference in talent or potential is drastically different. They've got all the tools, they've got all the resources to make that happen. And that's exactly what I see happen in this particular week. And I would say the same thing if these situations, if we're talking about two completely different teams outside of Michigan and Michigan State, maybe two teams in the exact same situations from another conference. Just you know, based on watching football for thirty or forty
years, you know, it's just how these things go. So I'm feeling very positive about the result. You know, I'm looking, you know, visualizing further ahead Saturday night, and I think we all have smiles on our faces because Michigan State pulls out the win. Let's go, that's go. I'm gonna say thirty one, thirty, maybe a last second field goal, maybe something crazy, last last minute turnover in a big play. I think it's going to be one of the exciting ones that will go down in history
forever. And we talk about five or ten years from now. That's thriller. Special teams, special teams, teams, the special teams stuff always gets crazy down in ann Arbor when these two teams get together. I'll tell you this, if Jaden reed, if he takes a punt return back at the Big House, because I feel like he's he's old one's two because the last one we had was a little skeptical when it came to the blocking from the
side. But if he can turn a punt, if we get these guys three and out, like, I think that's where it controls the game right there. And we talk about momentum as sudden change. Who wins the sudden change battle? This is being everybody been on the offensive offense, so we got a bunch of office business position. So defensive guy is how do we manage the sudden change because we know it's going to happen. We know something's going to happen where it's got to be like all right, we got to
go out there, let's get the ball back. And then also how do we control our emotions because emotions are going to be extremely high. And you know, I feel like every time we play these guys and our coaches have always prepared us to keep your composer, you know, play our football, play spartan football, don't don't get get don't let them get inside your head. And so I think that's what's gonna be truly what can we control.
But also let's just not get Let's not get fifteen yard abenlties, let's not get personal files. Let's play some clean football, but let's play some smash mouth, hit him in the mouth football too. Yeah, that's a great point that Otis makes it. I think, just like last year, staying the course of the entire game. Even though last year when we were down sixteen points, we didn't flinch. You know, we just continue as coach Tucker, you know, is monitor keep chopping. We kept chopping. We
stayed the course. And that's something that we're gonna have to do because the entire game is not gonna go in the Spartans way. We're gonna hit some adversity somewhere. And the thing is, whoever's the one that blinks first is gonna be the one that loses. So don't blink. Stay the course the
entire time, and I think the Spartans will be victorious. We used to always talk about keep the lion in the cage until it's time to unleash the lion, and it's gonna be tough, especially for us older Spartan dogs that are on this podcast right now. No special thanks to both of you guys for coming on the show. T J. Todd Duckett and Billy Burke, you guys. Just just a fun fact, the nickname Chu Chu came from
Ducketts. He can't stop doing it now because he was the Diesel. He was the and then coach Manny one time was like, oh this is this is baby Diesel and then he's like no, no, no, no, no, that's cute. Thanks guys. Looking forward, are you guys gonna come to the game. You're coming in arbor, You're gonna watch it where you're watching the game from my house, my house. I'm not going to them. I break out, Yeah, I break out when I yeah break
yeah. I'm thinking about twenty times of like should I go down? I'm still thinking about, like you're going to the case. I don't want to get fired. Appreciate you guys for jumping on. Thank you, thank you, Thanks for having me guys. Great to see you go green while all right, man, Hey, fun interview with two Spartan legends. Huh you know Todd, t J. Duckett and Billy burt Man. I mean just two all time breaks. Yeah, definitely, And you know that's what I
love about being a Spartan dog man. Even when you when you know, talking to you know, Duck it there, and when you're young guy coming in and even you know, when I was playing Jason, you were doing the sideline and stuff like, you know, like it was known that you were Dog. You played there. You know, Duck would come back,
Bill Burke would be there and all those guys. And it's just like, you know, you just get to know these guys, you know, from when you first step on campus to now having a relationship to with them after you're done. That's what it really means to be a Spartan dog and you know, really appreciate them coming on. It's, you know, just great conversation. Like I said, it's just like boys in the barber shop. Gotta love its old. As I know, we got to make sure that
you don't catch the case. We got a call Michigan State Police. I had to go to the altar Like lord, Lord, I don't even know
what I'm about to do. You already know that this week, all the trash and all the kind of banter going back and forth, it all matters what happens on that field, right, And so we all played it and we all wore the green and white, and we all are living vicariously through our guys are going to compete, but we know what they're going through, and so I think that's where it's we're more invested knowing that we're going to
be watching from afar or watching on the sideline or in the stands. And I think it's just true, like to teach your tops point, let's play free man, and let's have some fun, and let's have some fun beating the school down the road, Like that's no more better feeling than to where you come back from that drive in two thousand and eight, coming back from that drive on that road and land into East Lancet, and you got your peoples and your students, the fans waiting for you and to celebrating man,
And that's what it's all about. And so I want these guys to feel that. You know, we had it at home and we felt that, but it's truly a different difference maker. You go down in that monumental stadium that they have there and you beat them on their own turf and you get to go take back home to Paul Boy and Trophy sitting right in the front next to coach d like, there's nothing better man, and so I just I pray for these guys to be out there truly play free and not get
inside their hands and have a great time. And yeah, we'll let the chips fall what they may, but they're gonna be falling on that green side heavily, without question. Ju And yeah, yeah, just like Otis, Otis, you know, hit it on the head. You know, I'm a guy that, you know, never had the opportunity to, you know, take that bus ride back with a victory or leave our stadium in East Langston with the victory. I'm a guy that suffered many heartbreaks in that game.
And that's why it's so important. You know, when or Duck was talking about that final catch, I go back to when I first got on campus, talking to guys going into this week, talking about what the emotions for like, what the feelings were like. You know. So it's something that I never got to experience. I'm glad, you know, Otis had the opportunity to experience it, you know, the very next year after I
left. And I want the same thing for these guys. I wanted for Spartan nation, you know, Spartan nation, you know, great, greatest fan base, you know in the country. Players, you know, play your assets off and let's just get ready to go. Let's get ready to ride. Legendary Spartan great Sherman Lewis finished third in the Heisman Trophy back in nineteen sixty three. Of course, coach Lewis man coach a coach for some
the Bawl Wings. By the way, Yeah, about the best bus ride home he's ever had and all the teams he's coaching played for was that ride from ann Arbor back to east Lands and after beating that school down the road. Guys, Hey, great show by all today. Uh, special things again goes out to Bill Burkett and t J. Todd Dockett Duckett, the Duckett brothers. You know we're gonna do a little plug for you guys.
Also the special things obviously for I have the Graduate hotels and everybody who makes this show so special and for whom Otis Wiley and jay U Culchrid I'm Jason straight on, This is Sparta. Have a good night, God blessed, and go Green, Go whe