The following is a presentation of play Fly Sports properties. I was just laughing. I thought it was funny. Now they got excited. It's it's good. You know. Sometimes you get your little brother excited when you're playing basketball and stuff. Let him get the lead, and then you just come back and take it back. Do you think yep? I remember it as it was just yesterday, and like it was yesterday, I was sitting about the
forty yard line. Michigan State led twenty four fourteen. Was gonna be a big upset, was gonna be a crowning jewel for Mark D'Antonio in his first season. And then Brian Mallett snaps the ball or he get gets the ball and he gets hit, he fumbles, so we're like, oh, yes, lo and behold Mike Cart hides behind the whole line, picks it up, runs and I remember he ran, you know, fifteen twenty yards, made somebody miss, and I came in and made the tackle in his first
down and a big letdown. The Spartans eventually lost the game, a devastating loss, but the real dig came soon after during a press conference with team captain Mike Hart. Sometimes you get your little brother excited when you're playing basketball and stuff. Let him get the lead and then you just come back and take it back. This this is the meanor when he said it was just it got Coach Deve upset, and then it got all of us upset. And you tell my tone. All right, this game, this game is
an important game. This game is an important game. So they want to mock us all they want to marc us. I'm telling them it's not over. So they can print all that crap all they want all over their locker room. It's not over. It'll never be over. Here. You could see just in his stern eye it was fire. It's just starting. But just remember, pride comes before the fall. Any just here, Pride comes before the phone. Well, we all know what time it is. It
is officially Rivalry Week here in East Land, Sing. We are live from Jolly Pumpkin on Albert Street, deep in the heart of downtown East Lansing. This is Sparta. I'm your host, Jason straight Horn, along with my co host Otis Wiley and jay U took it to Colchrit. You really took it on them, So we're going okay. This time has a little fun today guys, right, I mean this is we got a bye week leading up into the main game of the year, right against the school down the
road. And what better way to kick it off than with the Resident Spartan, the president, owner, CEO, CFO, Resident Spartan who made a mistake and started off at the school down the road. But quickly right it is wrongs. It came to east Land sing and that's none other than Tony Grant. Tony Jay, How you doing, man, I'm great, are you guys? Good to see you here. We're here in your place, your establishment. Thanks a little bit about what you're doing in this establishment here.
That's beautiful. It's awesome. Man. Oh man. I've been at this company for about ten years now, and for about nine of it I was trying to find a spot in these landsing so we could open a restaurant. So we're very happy that we've got a location now deep in the heart of Yell. We got Jolly Pumpkin there. Jolly Pumpkin's one of the top breweries in the world, one of the top one hundred beries in the world. It's the one of the top three all sour breweries in the world.
And we've got some great food and some great beer there for everybody. So I'm glad you guys are there. Thanks for coming. Being a great food man. I mean, Jay, you we got to talk about one thing on the one item on the menu, and that is Jay. You take it from here. I tell you, they always bring the food to me and straight. It's like the former lineman. You know, boys like to eat, but I'll take it. You know the big backs. We we
like to eat too. But that chicken sandwich that's here, money, absolutely money. He let's talk about when we first had it. Is it came off the off the friar onto the table. I grabbed it. I didn't even think about twice. Just get right into it, flaming high. What was the coming that you made? Team coming coming? When was the coming? Man? Be careful, man, you're gonna be like that McDonald's coffee. You don't sum up, man, Tony, you can't do that.
You know that's your fall. Easy. Let that steve come off of that boy so that the tongue didn't blister up. I don't know what you did with that sandwich. The chef back there, the real the real m v P for that sandwich that's absolutely phenomenal with the fries Diola dipping sauce in there. So what he's trying to say is where is Let's go. Let's go, We'll get something later on the show here and wash it down with a we're a little Sparta one of these. This is Sparta, the Sparta drinks
American. That's right, and Tony, it's obviously we let's talk about the backstory. So when I was a fundraiser here at Spartan Fun, my job of responsibility was to work with former players who are alums and who are doing business. And so remember the time we went out to your spot in the backwoods of the school down the road. Can you talk about when we sat down in Jolly Pumpkin and and arbor or like me telling you we need to put one here in these lands. And then now we're here, right,
can you talking about that? And how you started with North Peak but also with Jolly Pumpkin. The backstory, Yeah, so many many moons ago. Jolly Pumpkin was formed in two thousand and four, and then before that, actually North Peak became a brand that was in nineteen ninety seven. So I got involved in about two thousand and eight two thousand and nine, as just as an investor. I was working full time at Borders bookstores at that point.
Actually what happened was emerged those two brands together and created a brewery company that would produce and distribute both Jolly Pumpkin and North Peak beers throughout state of Michigan and then more broadly, and then opened up two restaurants, one in ann Arbor and one in Traverse City, both under the Jolly Pumpkin name. Those are the first Jolly Pumpkin restaurants. And then fast forward when you and I we were meeting at ann Arbor, we still hadn't found anything in the
area. We were looking at Lansing, we were looking at you know, kind of all over the area to see if we could find something. But we want to be in East Lancing, you know, right down town. It just was kind of out of our I had a big idea, no pocketbook at that point. If you want to take a turn for my mom hockey book, we like that. That's my mom. What ended up happening is I met a guy through the city named Mark Bell, who Mark Bell
played at Wisconsin. He actually scored his He's a tight end, and he scored his only touchdown against Actually it might have been two thousand and five in East Lancing. So did we played against each other maybe one year two thousand and two, Sorry, two thousand and two. We played against each other in two thousand and one. Anyway, we have become really good friends since
then. He is the architect of that whole project that you're sitting in, So the apartments above the target on Grand River, the Jelly Pumpkin Space and everything down the line there, Foster's Coffee Barrio, all that stuff. And so he said, let's get you guys into East Lansing, and we came up with the deal to make it happen, and so we opened up in Covid in twenty twenty. We were supposed to open up in April or June
of twenty twenty, and I got put on pause. Obviously, we end up opening up I think it was October of twenty twenty in that space. So no looking back. It's been a great location for us, and I'm so proud to be, you know, putting money in to East Lansing, which I consider my second home versus where I was born, and you know, be a part of the community. Now, well, Tony, you know, talk about your affinity for the uh the I p as the in the in the beer. You know, going back to your college days.
Oh, it may have been a love of yours maybe for you to actually take the leap and invest in a company that that has such great beer. But tell us how that started. Yeah, you know, beers in a good way. Beer's always kind of been like, you know, I associate a lot of the good things that growing up, my parents are celebration, there'd be there'd be drinks around, You'll be drinking, and you know it was for me. I was very lucky and fortunate to grow up or it
wasn't a negative in my life. And so you know, I've always associated a good time and you know, I may have drank some beer in college. I mean, you know, uh may have had some good times associated
with beer drinking knowledge allegedly allegedly allegedly nothing is documented except for now. But but I got out, I got out into the real world and started working, and I was working with some people that had had this this business that the you know, the makings of this business, and I just I saw what they were doing on the on the the restaurants, air building, and how this craft beer movement was was starting to take hold, especially in the
state of Michigan. And I always looked at it as a you know, the state of Michigan in particular, we've got such a tremendous agricultural base, and we've got such a great manufacturing manufacturing heritage, you know, with the auto industry. You start to marry that and what do you have you you know, beer, you know, wine production, ciders, all these other kind of food products and everything else. And I started getting really interested in
that space and took a kind of a leap. I actually borrow money from a good friend of mine parents to invest in this company, and then I paid it back over time, and then, you know, just really got into what they were doing. The stores are cool. I mean the store you're in right now is is similar to the original vision for the company. It's a real great space to hang out to, you know, to be
with friends. They have a good time, and and the beer side, you know, it's I was working in the book business at that point, and I always looked and was proud of the company I was with. I always looked at it as you know, in the book world. You have something for everybody. Any interest that you have, you can find it in
a bookstore. And in the beer industry and especially the craft beer, there's so much creativity and so much going on that it's another industry where it crosses demographics, it crosses generations, it crosses you know, wealth, it just brings people together. There's a there's a quote. You know, beer is the lubrication of society, and a lot of things have been figured out in a beer hall, you know, over the eons or or or at a
at the at the city square over a beer. And so you know, I've I've had nothing but fun in the industry since then and still believe, you know, it's a really cool industry to be in. Yeah, Tony, I think it's uh going. It's great that we now have pinked a partnership with MSU and athletics. You know, us sitting down breaking bread and truly understand that, like this was the first partnership from a forward facing public
marketing for Jolly Pumpkin. But people don't know that you were the first one first company locally to do a n IO deal with Michigan State Football in the office alignment juice squad. Talk about how that came about. You know, it was, uh that was early days, and I think it was the
first nil deal. Maybe the university did at all or sorry at the university, but any any any player had it all at the university, and it was something where you know, I felt like I had an opportunity to do something on you know, this isn't an individual you know, big name, I'm looking to brand something with somebody's fame. This is more of a be involved you know, got the whole squad there ahead the long snappers there too, which was was like a fun angle for me playing O line and long
snapping and and you know, it's a feel good. It's a team thing. It's not you know, like I said, it's not an individual thing. And we love it because the guys come in. I mean, the staff loves seeing the guys. You know, I think they love the food. They sure eat a lot of it. We've done some some dinners together and stuff like that too. So it's been a really good, good program and I'm proud to have have done that. It was at that point it was a wild wild West. I still think n I l is somewhat of
the wild wild West. People are trying to figure things out and feel it out. But at that point, it was just like, Okay, we'll just figure it out as we go. Just this is what we're gonna do, and you know, let's let's do it. Let's try it and get this thing going. Man. I think Jay you laughed because I think we said the long snappers. You know what happened. I think I heard you. I heard you. You heard snicker. Oh, yeah, it was
a great one. Now, I'm telling you, if that's how you make your money, if you get past college and go to the next level and be a long snapper, you can be a guy that's there for fifteen twenty years just snapping the ball. So you know right now? Yeah, was what was that? What was the fastest time on that snap for you? Oh? Man? Point six steven? Maybe point six six? So you because a few weeks ago I heard Justin Tucker talking about this, can you
walk us through it? It should be about what three point what second from snap to kick? Oh? From snap to kick? Yeah, I don't even remember. Put you on the spot. It's been a couple of weeks since he did that. You give Tony a little grace remember Drake College as as a long snapper slash center. It seems to be that those guys end up being some of the best members of society for some reason, Tony, I don't know why it is outside of the running backs, obviously, maybe
it's some safeties the center position. Let's talk about that a little bit, Tonally, we can here, like let's put the beer. Well, we can have the beer and me and you talk about the center position. And how come so many of those guys tend to go on to success in society like you have here at Jolly Pumpkins, and like you brother, yea, nobody, nobody appreciates what you're going through. Nobody, and you best be damn you best be like spot on every time you do what you're doing,
or everybody is going to be on you for it. I think there's some humility that's britten us as we go through life at that position and that part part of the game where you know you you've got everything on the line from the perspective of your brand, if it goes wrong, if you're always have you always have hands under. I didn't go far back for them, I was I was guard on the line. So okay, there you go. Yeah, but that long snapper position and the whole specialty position, you guys
are one have. You guys are babies during training camp again, you have one job, snap the ball and make the kick. Well, you gotta snap, you gotta defend, and you gotta run and tackle too, don't forget about that. Yeah, kind of athletes, Tony. You know your first year in ninety eight, you came up there like for swing ball I can recall, and in the summer you disappeared. And I'm like, Tony's gonna die when it comes down for the running test. It's something for you
youngsters. They used to have a thing called running tests. They don't do it anymore. But back when we played, you guys had that too, right, the running test, you know what I'm talking about, but comes back for the fault just blows it out. I'm talking about sixteen to one tens whatever, whatever depth and destruction test the coach many came up with. You had no problem with it. Man. What did you do over the summer? Was it the Sparta American i PA that got you in shape for
those runs? Or what tell us the secret I was? I wasn't as blessed as my boy, as my boy ducket to be able to come in and do whatever. I'm running four to one my dad. My dad's an old ball coach, and so we would we trained every day. In fact, one of his favorite activities was he'd had me. He'd sent his blazer all right, and he'd pumped the brake every every once in a while, and I'd had to push him to a round the block, and everyone made my mom bring with beer. He'd sitting there, you know, the car
wouldn't be on it. I'd be pushing him, push him down the block, and to make it tougher, he'd hit the brake a little bit every once in a while too, so I couldn't get any momentum going. I remember going down the block at times and people would stop their cars and be like, do you need help? And you'd be like no, and I'd be like yes please right. Would didn't work. We put in work running
lifting. You know, I'd be snapping all summer long. I create a contraption so I could snap when I was by myself, and I didn't need anybody there to catch snaps. The stuff that they have now in the market. Yeah, I think. I think when I left, when I left Michigan, and you know, I went home for that fall and just watch I was watching BALLA, I was watching football TV, and I at that point I thought I didn't know if I was gonna be play football anymore.
And so, you know, I kind of went through a lot, went through some depression, went through some kind of you know, what did I do leaving football? And then I, I you know, woke up and called up, you know, coach Baggott, who was my boy. He
brought me in who he had been recruiting me before that. And when I came in in ninety eight, I was I mean, I had already gone through losing something that I love so much that when I came back in and I could run, I could you know, practice whatever it was that I could do to be on that field and be better, I was all in on it. It was just and so I just had a different mentality.
I loved those tests. I love training for all that stuff. And because I knew it was on a finite window, you know I could do it. So you're telling us right now, live here from the Jolly Pumpkin, that adversity actually propelled you to do more in your life. Oh, without a doubt. You know, people say sometimes you don't know how much you love or or or or need or realize you you you you love something until you lose it. And for people to lose something sometimes that means you've lost
it. You don't you don't get a chance, you don't get a second chance. There's a lot of things in life like that. For me, fortunately, you know, at eighteen years old, I lost something. I mean, this is this is not compared to you know, losing a loved one or something like that. But but I lost football, lost the game, and you know, I came back with a vengeance after that because you know, I realized like, oh, you know, I love this. This is part of me, this is me, It's part of my brand,
it's who I am. And I've got a couple more years left to do this. You know, I got to take full advantage of every second of it. And I think, you know, there's a lot of people that don't don't come into you know. You know, we had teammates that didn't want to be there that you know, they could have had all the world talent in the world, but they just didn't. They couldn't love it like that because it probably felt just like too much pressure and too much work.
And so you know, to lose it and then to come back and be able to gain get it back was a blessing, complete blessing. That's that's that's paved my you know, my path in a significant way, I think throughout my career in life. Amen of that man. Well, it's hate week, right, we talked about it Hate Week rivalry. We were just talking about how valry. But you also have partnered with that team down the road when it comes to rivalry with the cause, talk about it.
You've been involved with this for years, even before Johny Pompk in North Peak. But talk about the cause. Yeah, so rivals Rivals for a cause. It's a it's a charity where we raise money to donate to different charities. So we have been kind of on a three three different charity rotation.
It all it all started actually with a teammate, teammate of ours, uh, Josh Thornhill, who got some you know, very bad news about his son several years ago, I think it was twenty seventeen, and I just and I heard, you know, heard this is is someone was diagnosed with the inoperable brain tumor essentially so pediatric cancer brain cancer, and I I just was heartbroken. I mean, Josh, a good friend of mine, were we were really tight, We're playing ball, and so I just felt I
had to do something. And so I just we had just come out with these beers, Hail and Sparta, and it just kind of triggered in my head, like, you know, I've got something fun to get people interested, and maybe during that week I could raise some money and raise some awareness and just try to help do something as opposed to just sitting and you know, sitting on my hands. So that that was where the Ravels for a Cause was born. And what we've kind of done is, you know,
we raised some decent money that year. I kind of just built a website and was walking around giving people beer and asking him for money, which isn't a really great way to raise money. But he actually, Todd duck Duckett. I reached out to him for a little bit of mentoring because he's so involved in philanthropy, and he coached me up pretty pretty well, and so we partnered with with with him too. Through the New World Flood organization and
he helped me raise money too. So the second year we raised money for women's cancer. My wife is a cancer survivor, and we did that for
the Women's Cancer Hospital here at the u of M Health System. And then that that diagnosis led to us not being able to have biological children and we actually adopted adopted to beautiful daughters, and that led me to do last year's raise, which we had a little break because of COVID, but I found a the David Thomas Foundation, which is the only nationwide foster care adoption charity,
and we raised money for them last year. And so this year we're circling back and we're raising money for the cs Mott Cancer Hospital and so that's for pediatric cancer and so for the kids, we're raising money again this year. And Haile it sparred our front and center. So obviously Sparta being the dominant piece of that whole puzzle as we all know. But so you know,
we get all of our pubs right now. You can come in and you drink a piant, you order a pint, we will donate a dollar forever pint dis order, or we have these commemorative glasses like the spider glass you have there on the table that well for five or for ten bucks, you get to keep the glass, get a pint of beer, and we'll donate five bucks. So we're raising money that way. You know, I'm
out Pound of the pavement. You know. You go to Rivals for a Cause dot org and you can make a donation and goes right to see us Mott. You know, we're just talking about it and raising the money, but it's all go all of it goes right to the charity. There's not a penny that stays behind. That's not what this is about. So that's awesome. That's really cool, Tony, and thank you for you know,
taking the lead and doing that. You know, you mentioned Josh Thornhill and getting started with that, you know, really really good thing, really tragic story about you know, his his little one followed that all along, but yeah, big you know, and that's that's something that people don't realize. You know, once you're an athlete, you always want to give back to community because you've had a lot of help along the way to get you to where you are. And it's always any time that you can give back,
it's really good. And thank you for you know doing that. Thank you for saying that. Yeah, Yeah, and Tony's we created a QR code so in Jolly Pumpkin, if you come to visit, you're able to scan the QR code. It directs you to filling out some information but also has the link to donate. So we're trying to help obviously as best as we
can. But thank you you being a partner of Michigan State but also allowing us to be here just showcases Spartan's helping spartans and even beyond the grid iron which is great, great for us as a as a program, but just for us as businessman too. So appreciate you. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Something the locker room, the brotherhood. You know, no matter what, that that never dies and you never find it again. That's something I've I've always you know, I think maybe sub mentally
have sought, you know, trying to find that connection again. But there is nothing like your brothers that were you know, in that locker room with you and generations beyond. You know, we didn't play together, but you know I got your back and I know you got mine. It's just something about it, right, That's right. Tony, and we definitely have your
back and we really appreciate your time on the show. We know, we love the fact that you were able to start this worthy cause rivals, you know, for for Marcus Thornhill that's the child's name of you know, Josh and Katie Joe Thornhill that tried that died tragically of the brain cancer or the pediatric brain cancer, and donating a dollar, five dollars or whatever you can
afford. You know, we're gonna have the QR code here on our podcast here, and then obviously we're going to have it on our all of our socials so people can easily find it and make those donations to a worthy cause. Thank you so much, Tony. I mean we can talk for hours, I'm sure, especially over a Sparta. I p a let's we'll do together? That we'll do together, Yes, sir, that's sir, And we were falling to forget that. Also in our partnership with Jolly Pumpkin,
Tony stepped up and he's supporting women's initiatives for women's sports. So not only is he doing it for the football team, he's also providing three meals for three women's sports teams in Michigan State. It's women's basketball, women's volleyball, and the gymnastics. So we appreciate you stepping up, especially in the year celebrating title nine, stepping up from a brand, but also from a former Spartan and giving back to the women here that we also respect just as much
as our own self. So thank you so much. Man. We appreciate you less to be part of it. So thank you. Thanks, Tony, appreciate it. No green Man, Let's get that w Yes, sir, special thanks to Tony Grant Jolly Pumpkin for hosting This is Sparta. I don't know who was Jordan or Pippen in the backfield between jay U and our guests. Our guests. Who's gonna be bringing on now? Javon Ringer? Yo, what's up? Fellers? What's up? What's up? Rings how's
it going? Brother? Things are good, man, things, Everything's going good. Appreciate y'all having me. I appreciate you. You know, we know you're busy. I just gotta I gotta shoot first on that comment. Me and jay you had a great partnership, so we were we were kind of like we were just wanting to punching it both of us. No, it wasn't none of that, man, maun stop. We did not trade some touchdowns for Jen. I'm easy. You always twenty one tonies. What's
crazy is because you don't see this often. That's how like things kind of rocked well with me and Jay because you don't see this too often. We had a great relationship with how it would work. I always wanted like yards and he wanted touchdowns. So I was I remember, we'll be in the in the locker room or in the meeting room, and we just come up with crazy scenarios and I won't be like, hey, Jay, would you rather have two hundred and fifty yards and one touchdown or ninety yards and three
touches? I like three touches. We would literally have discussions like I would be okay if I had twenty carries for like one hundred and forty yards no touchdowns, and then Jay, you could have fourteen carries eighty yards and three
touchdowns. Like we're good, Oh wow, both looking looking good? Yeah, And like I said, back to the you should me and him had we even we didn't even care who started, like depending on the play, if I liked it, he let me take it, or if he liked it, I let him take it, or if it was just kind of whatever we paper rock scissors sport like, Man, whoever won it, it's real, it's been verified. It's been talking about this paper rock cissens for
a long time. We didn't know if it was true. Man. No, that was honest, honestly, God, no exaggeration, like because usually we would get like our first ten plays or whatever and whatever it was if both of us kind of was like I don't really care, like whatever, al right, come on, and then whoever won and all right, you got it? Wow, man, you mean I remember German such a selfless
player. He won on senior day against Penn State and he's like, no, you take and you take it and it was a play design for him, and I real, coach Enos, It's like, you got to take this one because it's some outside Zonar screen or something he played that I had to go out. I'm like, no, I'm good, Yeah, you got it. That's the thing. You gotta know your limits. You got
to know your role. You got to know how you fit in, especially if you're in a running back by committee and you know Javan and I had a great relationship with that and you know, rings all the accolades and all the stuff you got on the field, you're a better, better dude off the field. Man, appreciate that, man saying, you know we we classed on five. We came in together, man. Yeah, it was
one of the few like freshman's early freshman early. So Javan came in ready, like we are what he looked like now, he came in ready. Now, I was one of those guys that came from the track. I was strownning. Man, you remember that first test, like mentioning. I couldn't remember that. Yeah, well let's talk about man like me and Javon. Actually, Javan was supposed to room roommate. He's supposed to be rooming with Ross Weaver, and then I was rooming with R J. A.
J. Jefferson, Arthur Lee, Jemmerson. Let's be right. So we ended up figuring out like me and Ross knew each other coming in. So do you know Felino, We just honored Felino last week. He said, hey, Felina, I don't ready know Javon. They don't even know Aj. Can we room up? So he switched it, so we had two
running backs to safety defensive backs rooming together. Well, let's talk about it, man, Like you're from Ohio, the h ten Shamana, which is hominant and bringing in some studs in college football and playing on the pros. Like talk about Ohio and your roots, but also coming to Michigan State and
that whole story. Well, back when I was coming up, I feel like I feel like sometimes have changed a little bit because even when I was coming up, even high school, it was always a grind type of mentality, Like y'all have to be in that weight room. You gotta get strong, you gotta get powerful if you want to have any chance to succeed,
not just in Ohio but against these other people around the country. So when I was coming up, man, that's like you said, when I came into Michigan State, like I already you know, you hear those stories how people gained like twenty something pounds once they get into college or whatever, and it's usually because they didn't really work out like that in high school and now
they're actually putting on muscle. I did, like throughout my four years of college only I only gained about maybe seven pounds, and I stayed the same. So, man, coming from where I came from, that was the athletes I competed against. You know, we were kind of loaded, and we were very loaded, and it really helped establish my work ethic early, which helped me once I still got to college. Yeah. Man, so just through the record, people are gonna think when I tell these stories,
I was two fifty five in college eight percent body fact. All right, just just for the record, I was not lazy, but I'd like to do some I like you every day, jay Me. No matter what anybody says, Bro, you passed to have gas or tests. Like they don't do that. They don't do that stuff. No more like you passed to have gas tests. So like the twenty half gases trains his mind. He trained his mind to win the test test exactly. Just do this once so
you don't have to wake up at five thirty doing the next test. But I remember every every meeting, will come in there and you know Coach Enos my senior year though, so Coach Enos will come in. We'll bring Javan to coffee. Javan had to drink of coffee before every practice. You will bring You'll bring me whatever leftover, Like the coaches have for lunches. It will be like b Dove's wings or her brito smashing the marino? Do you want to drinking? I'm like, damn, look at that. I don't
know. I don't know if coach Enos did here this, but shout out to coach Enos man because of him bring because I remember it was one of those days during camp. I was kind of dragon and yeah, he just he could tell kind of meet and so he brought me. He brought me this coffee and it kind of picked me up. And ever since then, like that's kind of what started me with this whole coffee thing. So, hey, coach Enos, you hear this, man, I appreciate you.
Man. So you didn't drink coffee till you coaching knows brought your yeah couple of black couple yeall, no, yeah, but yeah, that was the first. That was the first time really kind of having it. And ever since then, like I've kind of stuck with it. It's not an everyday thing. I don't want to get too relyingt on the caffeine, but yeah,
that is that is kind of what I do. Man. So talk a little bit about your ability, Like you know, you had some breakout games against the school down the road, right you know, I can recall like you break out for long touchdown roads in the big House. You know, this is rivalry week times too, since it's a bye week for Michigan State right now and Michigan you know, talk about the mindset of you. You're a legendary Spartan dog All American in the backfield. You know, we're
having some trouble in the backfield right now for Michigan State. We're running the ball. We had a little bit more consistency against Wisconsin in the homecoming game, and we can deal with this past week. But what is your mindset going into a game, especially one like this. My mindset was always it wasn't how can I say this? Not necessarily I knew how to kind of
get myself where I needed to be. But it was more so me encouraging our offensive line because everything starts upfront, Like everything, I don't care who the running back is like that. That is my honest to God opinion. If you have a beast offensive line, they can make an average running back
look amazing by just a stout much in the line of scrimmage. So every time it came in and what's crazy with this game, usually whoever wins up front, they usually win the game's I rarely remember it not being that way. If you can control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball,
usually had a pretty good chance on winning the game. So that was always my mindset, making sure my offensive line was ready and then me and myself, Man, I knew it was gonna be a brutal game that I relished in that like I love that because that is a very physical game, and the fact that there's always that disrespect from them, Like no matter how the year is going. I remember, even in some of the D'Antonio years when they clearly had the better team than Michigan, everybody still goes with like
they still think Michigan's gonna win. It's still the disrespect to Michigan State. So that was always added fuel to the fire too. But specifically when I was at Michigan State, I mean, just truth be told, we didn't have the most success. Like I said, I didn't even beat that team until what my senior year. Yeah, yeah, man, So that I don't know, man, the fact on how disrespectful they could be, it always kind of just adds a little more fuel to it, which is really
the more fuel isn't needed. It's already there. But you know, just and just the fact on how not just them, but these these older people in the media, they grew up when Michigan was, you know, doing what they were doing, so they always kind of hype Michigan up to but just their fan base and knowing that if you could win that game, like you've literally you messed up their entire year. I don't care what other game,
whatever, the other games they may win. If you can beat them in Michigan, if they lose the Michigan State, that just puts a sour, a saur taste in their mound for the next whole year until we play again. Right, Givanni, so oldest hit on. You're a kid from Ohio, have success in Ohio. What made you choose Michigan State? Hey, full transparency, you be honest, my brother, Yeah, talk about the journey because I know it, but the process because in your year,
I know, got injured. Yeah, what made me choose Michigan State was honest, honestly, it was some of it was my father, my dad. A lot of it was my dad, my dad really liked Michigan State when we took a visit there because I tore my ACL actually my senior year of high school. But even with tearing my ACL, I didn't really lose out on any scholarships that I had and was crazy USC Southern California. They actually offered me after I tore my a CL, so that it wasn't a
lack of recruiting. But when I took a visit, it just how it kind of worked out to where I had my surgery, I didn't take any visits to any other schools, and then when I finally was able to walk again, you know, we went up to Michigan State. That was like my that was my only that was my only visit and I actually had plans to still visit some other schools, but my father something about Michigan State. He loved it, and then that's what really because I didn't personally really I
didn't really know much much. I didn't know too much about Michigan State, but once I was looking into it seeing how much my dad loved it, I think at the time at the time because it was like it was they had three running backs. J U Jason Jason t and uh Cobb. Yeah, so him and then with Drew they were like, you guys were like like number one in the Big ten in Russian and then like top is toping is topping the nation. And then of course I wanted to go someplace where
I could play right away. And then DeAndre, so I saw the rotation. And then DeAndre was a senior. So I'm putting all these into perspective and thinking like, well, if he leaves me, maybe yeah, I could come in and you know, you know, there we go boom, and then I'll be able to help out and it is still in the Big ten, and you know, maybe this could this could be, this is what it's supposed to be. So that's kind of why I ultimately end up
choosing Michigan State School. My host was my host was a Brandon McKinney. You know he's from Yeah, he's from my school. So when I came up there, they naturally just put us. But you said, Brandon and Stefan hosting me on my visit to Yeah, he number one two comedians on the squad. Like where did they take you? I don't come, I don't We went. We just we went to a few like a few little parties, like I can't remember. Some of them were like house party,
Yeah, like house parties, start stuff. What schools were in the running before you said USC? Who else? Yeah, I wanted to take a visit to USC. I wanted to take a visit to Tennessee. I wanted
to take a visit to West Virginia. I wanted to take a visit to Florida the Gators because they offered me also, And I told John L. Smith that, Like I told him that, like, hey, you know, thank you for the day this official visit, But like I want to still take a few visits because I was always told like, hey, take
your visits, take your visits, take your visits. Like and I still I personally tell players that all the time, Like even even if it becomes the Michigan State or at the Toledo whatever, I always tell guys like, look, because this is that's a that's a huge that's a huge decision, like where you choose to spend your college at, because that's that's that's the time of your life. That's a big part of your life. Even though it's short, it's still a big part of your life. I always tell
guys to take their visits. So that's kind of what my mindset was. And then I told I told him that, and he said, okay. Then when we left, my dad just talking my ear off about Michigan State, this, Michigan State, that, Michigan State, Michigan State, that, and he like, you need you need to hurry up and commit before they before they get it, get us, get somebody else, and then and then you're not able to go there and blah blah blah blah blah.
So then I started really thinking about it, like, well, they are like top in a big ten right now in rushing. I want to play right away. DeAndre Cobb as a senior, He'll be gone, Okay, I could, I could? You know, I can make it work. Oh that's kind of those were schools that I was going to try to take a visit to think about that. That's all warm weather schools except for West Virginia all hate When you were coming in, were you coming in with you
said you wanted to play right away? Were you coming in with the mindset of I'm taking taking I'm coming in to be the guy or I want to fit into the piece for the running backs by committee. What was it mindset? I wanted to fit in, like I said, because I knew you guys roted it and you guys rotated a lot, Like it was all all three of you guys, all three of you had like over six seven hundred
yards Russian. So like I really just kind of wanted to come fit in, especially my I mean, I was a freshman, so I wasn't I wanted to I just wanted to contribute. I was really a team guy. And then every time I watched you guys that that year, you guys were in a lot of games, and I thought maybe I could just be another piece to help kind of get us over that hump. So yeah, really, like I didn't really have a mindset of coming in like I want to
just take over everything. I want every single carry, I want to be the only man. It was like, no, once I literally thought I wanted to be that piece. Once DeAndre Cobb left, I could just come in and just kind of help help from there and then just continue to progress. You know, as my years went through college, there's this question I have to ask. I got to ask because you know, you're dealing with right now at the University of Tile though, and the name, image and
likeness. When you think about if we were coming out in two thousand and five and we were able to capitalize on our name, image of likeness, Bro, Like what what I would entice you, incentivize you to make the decision if you get in the shues of the players. Now, yeah, one about that whole thing, I'm I'm happy. I'm happy that that is something, because it's amazing how much money these universities make off of the grind that these players put in. And it's not even close some people are you
know. I used to hear that. I used to hear those discussions, like even at the barbershop, like people talk about, man, they getting the whole scholarship paid for and blah blah blah blah blah. I'm like, bro, that is that's literally nothing compared to the millions on millions on millions
of dollars that they're all making on the backs of these players. And then even for myself, Like I'm happy for these players, but I would there was any of bitterness and jealousy because I think about, no, they started selling that twenty three jersey, my jersey myself my sophomore year, like and then and then I still would see it today, Like I still see that jersey around whenever every now and then when I'm up there and I'm like, Yo, is there any way I can get any back pay on some of
this reparations? No, that's like the truth. Like I would see that and I would think about how just how beneficial that could have been in things that could have helped out with me back then when they actually were, you know, selling my jersey. They started selling that twenty three jersey when I was wearing twenty three. So I don't know, man, but it is a blessing. It is a good thing, man, and it's important a lot of that's that's how That's what a lot of these recruits are going off
of. And really the ones who are benefiting because I feel like eventually they're gonna have to come up with some rules because the ones who are benefiting these kids right now, they're the ones who are gonna benefit off of it because because right now, it's just it's just wide open. These kids can make crazy money and it's and it's a little disadvantage with a lot of other schools too. Man, it's kind of but it's just wild it's really all over
the place. But I think eventually they're gonna have to put some stipulations on it. Yeah, so you talk about your number twenty three jersey being sold, but when you came in as a freshman, you were thirty nine, number thirty nine. That was my choice. I was going to say, sisterly quick, yeah, because that was back. That was back when you had to earn, earn a good jersey. That was that was back. You come in as a freshman, it's like, all right here, freshmen,
you take that. You you want to change it? Man, make some plays. Nowadays, you know these kids, they you know, they they kind of just gonna get some stuff handed to them without actually having to prove anything first. You remember that, Oh does you remember back our first we couldn't even we couldn't even talk to the media media podcast, which it helped because if you put some of our fellow recruits and classmates colleagues on there, you don't know what they're gonna say, right, I mean, that's
that's that's true. That's true, that's true. But do you we talked about this, Should you be able to come into college as a freshman, you need to show myself approved before you even get a chance to start talking about in I L and capitalizing. Well, yeah, because I do. I think about some of these guys who are getting this. They're they're good in high school and they're getting this, they're getting they're getting this crazy n
I L deal coming in as a freshman. But then how many how many of these top players we know that have came out of high school they go to that school and then they get beat out by a three star and then that top guy doesn't even play. But yet I was wondering that are they still old that money or how is that gonna work out? Well, so you look at the transfer portal, right, you know some guys going there voluntary, you know, like, Okay, I don't like this place,
the coaches are screwing me over whatever. Well, if you are getting paid a lot of money, they come to a school like a lot of these five stars, aren't you know, they're going to be told to go to the transfer portal. I mean, welcome to professional sports. That's where it is right now. With some of the guys, you know, even in Michigan State that aren't performing, Yeah, they're being strongly suggested, you know, as a couple of years back to move along. That's what this is.
And I'm not to sound like a jerk or anything, but I don't fully disagree with that, just because it's like, you know, when you get a scholarship, you they're like they're investing into you and hoping that you can project to be this, and if you're not living up to your end of the bargain of that scholarship, then it's like, ayson know, we've tried for like three years now, two three years, and like because at the end of the day, like these players can get coaches fired, like
if they're not performing. Like, bro, if you're not just being a jerk kid, you're not working hard, you're not doing what you you're not you're not executing what you're supposed to execute, Like, you're just not performing. Like if a coach keeps keeps trying to play you and play bro, eventually it's gonna be like, all right, bro, Like now I got to get fired now because I didn't trust it in the youth to handle what you were supposed to handle and you not you, So that that conversation,
honestly, that's I don't really have a problem with that. I feel like that's fair, like if you hadn't been if you hadn't been in that school for an x amount of time, and like you just not living up to your end of the bargain of this scholarship. And it's like well man, and especially at Michigan State, like some of those guys shouldn't even well, there weren't some zoom bases, you know, the guys that got recruited during the pandemic. They weren't allowed to see them up close, so they got
the benefit of being getting a scholarship. I mean, yeah, I mean because even there was some some guys who shouldn't have I'm trying to be there's just something political correct. Yeah, this is this is sparta man, that's true. Hey listen, it's just you like that just keeping it a buck because yeah, man, I put in my work in Michigan State too.
So I feel like I personally can say this. Some of the guys who who were there, like you shouldn't have been there, Like you you really weren't that good, like and then or if you did get blessed to have this opportunity again, like I said, you're not living up to your end
of that scholarship. So yeah, man, that's why, that's why, That's why I respect how how Tucker is kind of he's doing what he needs to do with it and trying to get some of these guys out of his transfer portal and then working his ass off to recruit who he needs to recruit to get his guys in there. And I respect him having some of those conversations that I know he's had with some of these other guys with like you
know, they helping them get other places. That's just kind of how it goes, because some of those guys shouldn't have shouldn't have been there, and I even know them. Like my time I've been at the University of Toledo, I knew something was kind of weird when we would have a guy like we would have a guy then out of nowhere, Michigan State had come in, and It's like, bro, how in my mind, I'm thinking he ain't Michigan State good? Like what are we doing? Why is he up
there? Like why are y'all Why are y'all coming after the guys who were trying to get We weren't competing with Ohio State with recruits. We weren't competing with Michigan with recruits, but then Michigan State had come in. I'm like, bro, what like, yo, coaches, what are y'all doing up there? He needs to be here in the max with some of those guys who were at Michigan State before. They needed to be down. They didn't need to be up there. So that's why I know Tucker's doing his best,
man, trying to get some real dogs in there. And it's only year three. Give like he gonna get them. Man, He's definitely gonna get him. You gotta keep trust the process. Well, I remember Coach D when they established Keeping it Real Mondays, it was like freshmen and sophomores. That was Elliot Daniels Ashton Henderson on the plug, those two creating that program. But I remember they had Coach D speak to the group and this was the time I was around that three nine season where we were struggling a
little bit and Coach he goes in there. I've never seen Coach D keep it real like this, Like he truly took that mantra keeping it real, and he looked those guys in the face. I mean I was sitting in the back like shock that he said it, but he said, I recruit you guys. We recruit you guys. We told you the bells and whistles what we're gonna do to get you here. When you get here, I'm giving you two years to show thyself the worth of your scholarship after that.
And that was the true, real like business acumen of telling these guys this is a business, Like, this is not a free ride. You got to earn it every day. That's kind of like I said, people got to like these coaches, they got to feed their families too, And like that's kind of wild how your success is based off of the player, Like and if he's not doing his job, and if that continues to happen, bro, you can get fired and you out looking for another job. So
it kind of goes in, It goes in. And Jack, I mean you played in the league, right, So you played and you got drafted into the Tennessee Titans, played there for a number of years. And you've seen guys that were drafted first round high first round draft picks. Right.
You know, the NFL spends tens of millions of dollars and resources and going in the backgrounds of these kids, you know, finding out everything about them and going back to the kindergarten teacher, find it out about what this neighbor thought of the guy, you know, seeing what his medical reports are,
and they're still wrong fifty percent of the time, they're still wrong. And now you're expecting a college to look at a kid just based off of what two four seven Sports Arrivals dot Com said is or what your eyes say when you see this kid playing against other high school that we're gonna pay this kid X amount of dollars and that he's gonna perform. You know, like, is it not setting themselves and the kid up for failure in a way if the kid, you know, so like, buyer beware, if the kid
takes these dollars. You know, I kind of like I do like the way that mel Tucker is doing He's not he's not throwing the big bags at kids. That's why the five stars aren't coming, by the way, everybody, five stars aren't coming here because the bags aren't dropping here. You know, mel Tucker is doing it the right way. These stars always tell the truth. Football guys, man, No, they're not bad. What what kind of star were you? I was a three star? Oh my god,
yeah, were you. I was a three three two. They have stars when I played your top one hundred. Let me let me get you some fun stories. These guys are trying to get like, I mean, we got the party. Let's start the party. Tell you he wants to party, Come on, tell you what's up? You? You got some bad from this guy. Hell of an athlete, all right, And you always could turn it on and off because it's something that really struck me about
you, and this really sticks out. We're playing my senior year at Iowa. We're in overtime, double overtime. We go, we score the defenses out there, and you and I are sitting on the water cooler bench there and you just come to me straight face, and you look at me and say, hey, if you were a superhero, what superpower which you have? And I just started laughing. And then Coach d sees us and he comes up, he looks at us. He's like, you guys, good
you in the game. You were like, yeah, Coach, we're good. And we just looked at each other and remember that, and I don't I don't how do I don't know. I didn't want to if things felt just too uptight, I don't know, Like I like to, there has to be some level of like, yo, we're calm, We're like, we're still locked in now, like we're in. But because sometimes I don't know, this is just me, this is my own personal feelings. I feel like sometimes when you are that uptight, you're prone to kind of make
a mistake like yeah, instead of being a little loose. That's just how I That's just what I believe. So I don't know, man, I knocked myself out like those I don't know, just those random stuff like I don't know, Like I just with that. I always ask you and I had this great relationship running back by Committee, and at the end of the day, it was the hot hand that played and straight. We all talk about this. Now this a running back by committee where it seems like each
back's getting a series. What are your thoughts on running back by Committee and how it should be played? It shouldn't be in Michigan State's running back by Committee. I don't think it shouldn't be. If you're gonna do running ba committee, you can't be running like like three four different guys. Man. I feel like you gotta you gotta if you got two like and that has to be clear in the room like yo, like like two guys can be
can that's that's it? And then if one guy just completely shows he's just above and beyond, then it's like, all right, we gotta roll with this man. But if you're doing running back by committee, I personally feel like if it's over two, if it's three to four, then that's doing too much because there there is a rhythm that kind of comes with being a running back, like once you're in the game, you're in the rhythm of a game, Like I don't know, so I think it has to be
I think two to rhythms. So do you think the transfer portal plays into that in the back of coaches minds? Because when you and I were there, you and I knew the game plan for run what's gonna be you or me? Everyone in the room knew that, and it was okay. It
was except that everyone played the role. Do you think now coaches feel, hey, you know, we've got this guy through the transfer portal, we have to give him so many plays, or this guy's a highly recruited guy coming in, we have to get him played so he doesn't transfer out. Do you think that takes a play possibly, which I feel like it's kind of it shouldn't it should be more so, just how you recruit guys.
You're recruiting out of the transfer portal. You if you see somebody who like, hey man, we think this dude should it could could help benefit our team. You bringing me in. You recruit him to come and come there. If he comes, he gets a chance. You get a chance. If you don't make the most of that chance, and if you're not performing, then hey man, it's a miss. You just consider it. You
just considered it a miss, and then you keep rolling. Now, I got some stories now, but I'm a gonna make sure like I keep it PG, I'm gonna keep PG. Oh boy, so ring. Do you remember when we used to have our we used to have training table outside of the restaurants off the campus, when we had like carpool and remember you remember where A J. Jimmerson he left us because we was like carpooler right like he used to He was supposed to be our guy to hook us up.
Freshman didn't have cars, so we had to give a upper classmen and sometimes I ride with Ju. That was a great experience all the time. You
never know what to expect when he's driving. But I don't I remember who we who we caught a ride with finally, but we also caught up with a j after we left because you was extremely pissed about it that he did that to us, right, Do you remember when we was in Cherry Lane and we truly out, had like a one on one brawl inside and we was like we was like I was wrestling Slip was like had no phones. We had like these like old cameras no one has. It was like hell.
But I remember, yeah, I remember that. I remember, you know, you know I had that lower body strength, right, so I remember was trying his best to try to pick him up. Jam's life just sitting there small, Yeah, sitting there body. Why you bring this up? Man? Look because look we're talking about team Bond because we respect each other. Like we left that room, we were still a j L. That's one of my best friends. Like I was in he was supposed to
be in my wedding like that. Yeah, that's my dog, that's my man. But I remember that we had Remember the phones. Brothers wrestle. We can wrestle. Brother brothers wrestle all the time. Man like, you know, no no issues after that, we was good. Question are they wrest right now? No? Man like, obviously you know I got love for your brother. Man before we let you go, I have a confession. Oh boy, So Javan and our room together. So every home game
he would like to try to see who gets to the hotel first. Because Javon wanted to watch cartoons anime, I wanted to watch college football. So Javan will always beat me to the hotel. You know what I said, I was, you know, taking my time. He he You know, so when I started to do I used to call the Kellogg Center and have him hide the remote. So and then like man, he just stuck.
Just he's pissed off. Now that's and I don't want to let you go yet because we talked about on our podcast episode where offense defense when we're on the field and when one side of the ball wasn't getting it done, like for instance, if the offense was struggling but the defense was getting three and outs. I remember all the time you would come over and be like loudly publicly saying defense, keep doing what you're doing, keep what you're doing.
We'll get it right. We stuck it right now, we'll get it right. Like, what what was your DNA of like talking that through? It was a strategic for your offensive line. I just knew. I just knew. Ultimately, my mindset was always about the team, like, yo, we we have to do this together. Like if one group is sucking and the other group is doing okay, like eventually we're you're still gonna need that group, like who's maybe not having their best game, whether it be offensive
defensively. So I just kind of my mindset was always it's better to encourage than to like then to kind of like pull pull them down, like to pull any of us down, like people respond better. I don't know my vibe, but with everybody was I felt like I would get a better response if I was more positive than just trying to rip everybody like and because again, nobody could do it on themselves. Man, football is the ultimate team
sport, Like nobody can do it on their own. Absolutely, I feel like we got to talk about like one of the keys to winning this game. He's the winning this game is Like I said, up front offensive line and defensive line have to perform. If we do not control that line of scrimmage, we will not win. We got in Michigan British offensive. They're gonna try to run the ball on us. They're gonna try to punch us
in our face. And that's running the ball. Like we gotta be able to stop the run, and our secondary gotta be able to hold up when they do take them shots and then offensively bro control the line of scrimmage. You gotta be able to get a push when it comes to running the ball, and then you have to be able to protect like that handles everything. Like in order for Michigan State to continue to go where they need to go, they have to be dominant up front on both sides of the ball like
that. That that that will everything starts upfront. That is what I truly in my heart believe, and that's like I want to be a part of that. Recruiting like recruiting great offensive line and great defensive line and everything else will fall into place. So you're you're now coaching the running backs at University of Toledo, But I'll help out. I'm not the running back coach, but I okay, but you know, running backs, if you were at
Michigan State right now, I'm putting you on the spot. Out of the three backs that runs the ball, who would you have running the football? All right, Well, I'm a little biased because when I was there,
I was part of Elijah Collins recruiting and I like it. I like Elijah, so I personally, I've always I've always liked Elijah when he was in high school and I was a part getting him there with recruiting, and then once I left, like, I don't know, I like you, like I like him, like his dad, like, I like, he's such a good dude. And really it's crazy. He could have been bounced, he could have transferred out and he's still there. But I would I probably
would have rolled with Elijah. But that's just on the outside looking in. I'm not in there too. I don't know who's doing what in practice or I don't know how the vibes you're going or who who maybe seem to have the hot hand, you know, doing an inside run or something like. I don't know, so I know, I don't I don't see practice, but I see production on Saturdays. Hey, I mean, so I would
I would kind of go. I would go with Elijah. But that's more and that and like I said, that's more so I personally know him compared to the other guys, some of the other guys who got like who got transferred in right, Okay, so what is your position right now in Toledo. Uh, it's more so than the player development role. That's that's the side I want. I wanted to get into that, that coaching side of
it. I wanted to be a running back coach. But like man, the more I got involved and the more I saw there's a lot of sacrificeing that goes into being a coach coach, and what I've learned, I don't you have to really love it. I loved playing football. I don't really love the coaching side of it. I want to be able to help pour into these kids what worked for me, things that didn't work for me. And then I want to be able to go home, like I want to
be able to go see my family. I want to be able to see my daughter like I want to. I want to I want to be able to see my loved ones. I don't want to be in the office to tend to eleven like I know that joint. I know they pay I'm going they get paid good. And that's cool. Like that's cool, but like what also makes me feel rich is being able to see my folks. That's right, well, said Jabi. Man, I mean we definitely appreciate you
in your time and your contribution to all the spartanation. Man, for everything that you've done before and you continue to do today. Man, I, we really appreciate you coming on the show with us, no doubt man, and Yo, and I'm still trying to do my part with Michigan statement. I'm still help man. I'm still trying to help with recruit it ballet absolutely right now. Sorry the campaign. I appreciate y'all. Man, it's been fun. Yo. If I was your fast friend, that's a little inside
joke with us. Just can't help it. Life of the party, Jay you. I love you, brother, I love y'all. Man, appreciate y'all. Thank you for having me. I appreciate too. You know that's great interview there, guys from an all Spartan right there. This is this is an incredible guy, incredible football player, but also deeply involved father and husband Javon Ringer Legend. Yeah, definitely, that's one of my favorite interviews and one of my favorite dudes. You know ever, you know, be
able to say I played alongside with someone. He's a guy that I always you know, will hold to that level there and respect great guy, really appreciate him. Coming on. All right, guys, so you know we're gonna put a ball on this one. You know that was episode two. Here live from the Jolly Pumpkin for otis Wiley Jay, you Calf. I'm Jason Strayhorn. This is Sparta. Have a good night, God bless you, and go bring