The following is a presentation of Playfly Sports Properties in Michigan State Sports Properties. Well, Hello and good evening. It's Thursday, December fourteenth, twenty and twenty three. Welcome to the only show about Spartan Dogs hosted by Spartan Dogs. This is Sparta MSU. I'm your host, Jason Strayhorn, along with my co hosts. The boss otis Wiley's jay You couldn't make it today.
He's busy doing what JAYU does. But that's okay. If this is your first time watching the show, we want to welcome you to the show. If this is not your first time, we honor you and thank you for your loyalty. It means an incredible amount to all of us here at this is part of MSU. Please click the like and subscribe buttons and let us know where you're watching from, and don't forget to follow us on all of our social medias at This is Sparta MSU. Oh, we're gonna get into
a little bit of basketball today. We have to do that. We have a special guest for the show that former Hooper understands the game inside. Now the guard understands this thing. So MSU basketball Now says at four and five. After a loss this past weekend on Sunday to Nebraska. The next game against number six Baylor in LCA, it's gonna be on Fox on Saturday. That's the Little seasons greening for those who are listening downtown Detroit. Yeah,
this is a good opportunity. We did, obviously have our football game, our last home game in Detroit. We're showing the MSU strong ties in Detroit and the brand right so to have basketball tip off at two o'clock at LCA and then have the Lions play after for Saturday night. I mean it's gonna be a great, jam packed, eventful night for anybody going downtown and going to Detroit. I'm still thinking of going more so to enjoy the festivities and
Christmas that downtown Detroit has to offer. Ye, but taking the family there. But we'll see. But I can't wait to kind of deep dive on, you know, lay it down on the show with one of our former guys, you know, baller out there out of Flint Town. Can't wait to dive in on that baller out of Flint Town. Gotta love that. You gotta go break it down the matchup with Baylor. I know that that's
gonna be one heck of a matchup. You're talking about a top ten program in the NCAA, but also looking at where Michigan State sits in basketball, because everybody knows about the streak, the postseason streak, and at four and five right now, it's go time. So we're definitely gonna get into that as we continue throughout the show. Jonathan Smith on the football side, let's get back to the grid Iron Lands. His first commitment with running back three
star running back Macki Frasier, Rebel commit out of Texas. We already know getting commits out of Texas to come here to East Lanson's not a it's not a huge feat like it's tough to get him out of that a lot of schools down there, down south in Texas for them to select and choose from. I looked at this guy's film and we talked about this offline two nights ago. You know, we talked about this guy shows elite talent on both
sides of the ball. I'm more I'm more like, look, I'm more looking at his ability to play on the outside linebacker standpoint, because what he looks like in coverage for us as we saw this past season. You know, we didn't have the most astute or most talented past coverage from a standpoint from the linebacker mid level. And for him to come in, I mean
he's covering will outs. He knows obviously the offensive because he's a running back, but he also impresses me of going north south on his runs, going to running, you know, being a running back. So Coach Smith like, he's making noise, like he's only been here, not even ten business days. Really if you think about, it's been so quick. So turn around that he's making noise and you see some of the other stuff that he's getting guys, the official visits, which I know will cover as well.
But this is a huge get to have a commitment. Now you're not you already know he's not science steal delivery yet. Uh he may stop, still climb, but this is a huge gift for Coach Smith and the new staff without a question. Mackay, that that's your name, Mackay. I believe so. Mister Fraser originally committed to Oregon State. So this is you know, to be you know, committed as the staff has now taking the commitments
that they had in Oregon and moving them over. He committed back May ninth of this past year this year, but he decommitted on December first, when Smith took the job at Michigan State. He's a guy who has committed to the MSU over the likes of Arkansas, Missou, Minnesota, in Boise State, along with the Oregon State obviously. So this is a talented individual and you're talking about the state of Texas and you just put o this. I
mean, there's so much talent in the state of Texas. So look forward to talking more about him in depth as signing day approaches just a week from now. Now, this is a huge testament to players are committing and selecting their schools with the coaching staff that they trust clearly. And this is a huge testament to our running backs new running backs coach coming over and saying,
hey, I'm going to the Green and White. You know you can keep your commitment or do you want to come and start a new foundation and started to you know, start uplifting a program that's big ten country. I think that's a huge testament to the loyalty but also the relationship that our new running bass coach has built and in order to have him flip and come over to Green and White. So that's good, that's a good testament spartanation knowing that
these coaches have great relationships with these young players to make that flip. So absolutely, Speaking of guys who still have ties to Oregon State and their position, coach has now moved on to Michigan State. Tight end Wyatt Hook three star, who was originally also committed to Oregon State, has now committed to the Spartans tight end out of California, three star, a big get for the Spartans. Yeah, when you say he was like recruiting class ranked what
eighty fourth, that's the current class as it's the current class. Yeah, So I mean, for this is a huge task at hand of taking over a program this late I think right, it's with recruiting nowadays, it's late. So for us to put together a class with all the things that has happened and all the people that have hit the transferport currently in the roster we are. We have Malik Carr in the portal, So you have to bring
in, like you said, this fresh talent. And I mean from the looks he looks the part from a tiny end standpoint, and you just got to see like, hey, he's gonna come over and transition very well. I'm looking to see more great things and more names added to this quickly because
they are on the hunt aggressively right now. Can you imagine going right now in people's rooms and living rooms right now, like you got to come in with your best, like your best at this state of recruiting, at this time, You've got to come in with your best offer or you're gonna get appreciate you coming and spending time with us. We'll think about it, get back to you and what you know that offer was weak or this is a strong offer. So you know you gotta go win the hearts and minds with
one visit and a call. You know it's literally closing time. It's time for that right right now. So in living rooms all across the United States, you know this coaching staff is making those home visits right now. Obviously, wyat Hook is one of those guys from Homestead High School out of Coopertino, California, now number seventy second tight end in the country right now.
Rank But I'm gonna tell you one thing about the rankings. This staff has a knack for finding diamonds in the rough, something that Michigan State is used to in years past. Okay, talking about a brick by brick, were talking about blue collar state getting back to the DNA, Like they are guys that are hungry. Like there's I'm not saying there's entitlement with the star,
like there comes entire Yeah, there is, there comes entitlement. Now you got a guy who's hungry, maybe overlooked in these three ours, but has the talent with development and coaching to come and be great outstanding players for the Green and White. I love it. I love it to the point of like this is going to be embraced. This is the philosophy. There are great talent out there that get overlooked because of these stars mostly right, and
then it's like this is where I'm loving it. Right now, I'm loving it. I'm loving it. You love that it. I mean you're talking about a guy he's six six and thirty five pounds, three star, you know. I mean, so he has the measurables, you know, seeing his official visit pictures and he was hanging out with the a lot of the other commits from Michigan State on their official visit this past weekend. He looks the part. I mean, he passes what we call the eye test.
So I'm excited to see him get on campus, get him signed, then see if he gets in here early and so we can take a look at him and get him developed man, and then retain him, you know, because all the portal stuff that's going on in the world to you know, looking at the current classes you brought a minute ago, Otis, Michigan State ranks eighty fourth in the nation right now with early signing they coming up on
the twentieth of this month. The former classes for mel Tucker for MSU the last four seasons in twenty twenty he was ranked forty eighth, twenty one, forty fifth, twenty two, twenty six, and then peeking out in last year's class at twenty second overall. Is something that Michigan State can kind of gauge the ranking. But again, when you're looking for diamonds in the rough and you have the ability to develop, maybe that doesn't matter all that much.
Otis. There's a lot of flips happening this weekend. There's a commitments going on, and there's also new official visits. There's obviously a lot of noise nationally about the Georgia commit Dylan Rayola, who has been pegg He was at Ohio State originally and then he's at Georgia. Now he's committed to Georgia, but over the last forty eight hours, there's been a lot of talk of him flipping his commitment to Nebraska, where his father and his uncle actually
coaches there. Now his father played there. Dominic Rayola of the Detroit Lions offensive lineman. He's got quarterbacks, you know, the down at Buford, Georgia right now. So everyone in Georgia's up in rear, in an uproar right now because of this flip. But because of this, it's a chain reaction that's happening. There is a Nebraska quarterback commit, Daniel Kaylin, that is now set to come to MSU for an official visit on Friday. So
there's a little bit of a musical chair situation happening with the quarterbacks. Yeah, like, all right, I can't keep up. I'm be honest with you, I can't keep up. What is that? You know, obviously is influencing us of you know, him seeing Michigan State as an opportunity of value to Hey, since they're gonna go out and get someone and commit in my place like I should be. If I'm the quarterback in this class,
I should be the only one. If that's maybe his his viewpoint, But I don't know anything really about this kid coming, but for him to set his official visit already be committed to Matt Rule and team kind of shows like, hey, I feel like disrespected, So I'm gonna see in test the waters and see if there's an opportunity for me. But I feel like there's still gonna be some more developments on our side that needs to be shored up.
But we also have no scholarship quarterbacks coming back, so we are depleted and we need to go ahead and get some guys in here. So I'll look forward to get a little bit more deep dive on his his talent, what he brings to the table for our next show to kind of say, hey, you know, hopefully it's a great visit this weekend. Yeah,
and so we'll see. I think that's a big point right there, that you know, making sure that he's feeling welcomed into east Lands and on an official visit, because when you look at the news of the flips and things that are happening to transfer portals also a topic of discussion with Nebraska at the
position of quarterback. When you have Kyle McCord, the quarterback from Ohio State who's been crystal ball to go to Nebraska, and so Nebraska is looking at bringing on a starter in the Ohio State starter and the number one quarterback in the twenty twenty four class. At the same time the nil over there, I mean, you're you're talking ridiculous numbers for Matt Rule and company to be
able to pull this off. But hey, one man's trash is another's treasure when it comes to what Michigan State may be able to do to benefit from that kind of high dollar fallout with a guy like Daniel Kaylin maybe falling into the lap of Michigan State here along with Aidan childs out about you Aiden. You know, that's the one that everybody's waiting on that announcement. So we're all sitting here with baited breath, everybody yeah, waiting on, Yeah,
what's going to happen with the quarterback room Michigan State. It's crazy how quickly the quarterbacks have answered the call when Matt Rule goes on the press conference and talks about, you know, to get a top quarterback, it's going to cost one to two million dollars. And then all of a sudden, you getting getting the number one quarterback from oh stay starter, and then Rayola like clearly strategic for him to get the investments of that donor base of the corner
Husker fun So now I know we try to do that. And then I don't know if Backfighter just didn't hit, but we just haven't done it yet. We get, yeah, get there, getting there, We get we had the people. Yeah, speaking of that, we got to get into some basketball talk. When Tim Bograchus joins us after these messages from our friends over at I Hop and Seat Geek, I Hop and Wanka are dreaming up and magical new menu, magnificently mouth watering items like Wonka's perfectly purple pancakes,
the fantastical Wonka Burger, and of course Hover Chok pancake tacos. Every good thing in this world started with a dream, and now this one is a reality. Only at Ion try the new Wonka menu for a limited time, kids eat free from four to ten pm and sea Wonka only in theaters December fifteenth. Seat Geek is the ticketing app for fans like the High five Strangers guy game winning interception first down, just a nice solid tackle. If you're
in arms length, you will be swapping skin with this extrovert. You see, he knows. Seat Geek got him a great deal on tickets, so we can focus on what he does best, smacking palms. Seat Geek handles the tickets to sports concerts and more so fans can fan everybody drop those stacks and those tickets. We gotta love it. Now, it is time for the Man of the Hour ms HU Guard from two thousand to two thousand and five. Tim Bogracis joins. This is part of the MS you welcome to
the show, Timmy. What's up? Boys? I know that I hop sponsorship. This is he throw me a couple of Hey, we got you right down the street. It's a trigger trigger promotion. Man. Remember the tacos I hit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, seventy points tacos Now, seventy points gets you three stacked free stacks. So I did see that at the game, I think at the last game I went to. So yeah, So go ahead and get to the nffay, breakfast is fire, you know you yes, absolutely mean we're meaning yep, it's on me.
Man. I appreciate you Tim Bow coming. Man, it's been it's been a long time. Obviously, I've seen you since I've been back in East Lanson working here. But uh, you know, we wanted to obviously bring a former former player on that has lived it, breathed it under coach and and you know, talking about this year's team of all the you know,
the expectations were very high. I know you've been through some some some dog years and like working in some successful years as a player, and so who not best to come in give us, give us an inside look of just from a former mindset. Obviously, you know we're former football players, so we could talk football day in that day out, and you know we always think football. We were always hoopers and then you always think out football
players. So let's bring somebody in that can hoop. You know that can who So I did? I did do a practice in football pad, so I was I was one of the lucky ones who got to do that. Yeah, so let's let's touch on that. And that's a good transition. So before the Northwestern game, coach goes up, you know, and talks and as you know, has the little statement quote about you know, I'm going to get back to the roots and I'm not gonna you know, stop
listen to everybody and lawyers and all that. What what what does that mean? Knowing coaches, knowing the relationship you've built and had with him. What does that mean with this team where they're going through the pains right now?
What does that mean? Well? I think I think it probably is a little different than it was when we when I played, but it means I mean, he I think he's going to try to get back to what kind of the core of what the program was built on a on a practice standpoint, right, and that's kind of creating a competitive, physical, high intense practice environment because that's what the Big ten. I mean, you guys think
that's what the Big ten is is. And when your practices are hard and intense and they become harder than what the games are, you normally translates into better basketball. So I'm assuming there was a lot of defensive drills, uh, you know, and seeing that we've you know, we've been up late in games and haven't been able to close them. Out right, there's a skill to being able to win the last four minutes of a game and put
it away that you know, you have to learn to win games. I don't think people realize that, like it's it's being all the things, managing your emotions and the stress and the environment. But there's a there is a skill to learning to put games away down the stretch and sometimes, yeah, that you got to do it in practice, so it can translate over and talk about that. I mean when you're saying how practices were in your day,
so describe what those physical practices work. Yeah, And then don't get me wrong, there's still there's still physical I don't see as many I see a couple of practices of the year. I'll take my son over there and we'll watch practice just so he can he can see it. But it is, I mean, it is. When you step between the white lines on the court, you are just really trying to destroy the person across from you in a fashion of uh, you're either trying to score on them every time
you get it, you're trying to stop them. You need to get every rebound, and you know it's gonna be a dog fight, and and you know we've I've probably, like you guys, I've seen you know, there's there's fights in practice. I've seen coach fight, you know, nose to nose with people. I've seen players fight. It's that he loves that stuff, like he relishes it. But it's you know, it was really that was kind of how things were built prior to even me getting into Michigan State.
Was like, you know, this is how practices are. We have to we have to make it harder than the games so then when when the tough times come to the season, we can rely back on it because it's hard to be It's hard to find toughness if you don't practice being tough. Like it's not everyone's not inherently tough, right, Like, you know, there's not always got to be tough, right. We've all had teammates who aren't tough guys, but they can learn to be tough in those scenarios in
their own way. But it's got to be. It's gotta be an everyday thing. Yeah. Ever seen the movie three hundred? Yeah, I just tried to get I just took my wife, my wife you love. She just told my son, like, I think you're at the age you need to watch three hundred. So he's twelve. A spartan wife right there. Yeah, yeah, she was a better athlete than I was. Yeah, and I look, jes look, I know Jesse. Y'all both are y'all. Both are competitive and so for Mo for Mama Bear to say just to
be like, hey, I'm seeing I'm seeing some signs. You know, it's fun though with him, you know with kids that he's uh, he's just figuring out himself because he's not an inherently like tough kid, but he's a competitive kind of and he's getting more physical. So now he's starting to learn how to be tough and to manage that like emotions and like in games and you know, people are talking trash to him and uh so it's fun
to see it happen. Uh and kind of that growth as a he's a sixth grader now, so I'm just kind of sitting back and watching watching it happen. Yeah, that's the perfect age right there. Yeah. Yeah, man like to talk about like you watching the games too, Like, yeah, I've seen a lot of our former players friends of the basketball program, and some are some have different perspectives of like what's happening. Some have different like it's it's give or take here. This it's kind of fifty to fifty
from you experiencing and seeing basketball for a lot of lot of years. Like what you already mentioned about closing games, But what are some other elements of the game that we have to get back to to that winning culture of Like what are you seeing in games other than closing the you know the deal and what are you seeing? Yeah? And I think, I mean, I think we're close. I just think there's you know, like being able to
close games is a big one. I think it. I think it's there's a to me, like there's a little lack of cohesion on the court and sometimes it looks like there's just five guys playing there trying to get it to Tyson and hopefully he makes a tough shot to score. So I'll be you know, I'd like to get some you know, some early easy buckets for him, you know, for him so he's not working so hard. It's kind of like it's kind of like getting your cornerback to throw a five yard
out right to get him find a rhythm. Like we got to get these guys shots that help them find rhythm. You know, when I played, we we scripted the first five or six plays for certain guys to get them into positions to score baskets they and they were comfortable with. And so I think it's it's kind of like finding easy buckets for guys to get them going.
I mean, if you'd told me we were scored seventy points and we wouldn't win against Nebraska the other night, I would have told you you were crazy, right, But there's you know, and we didn't play too bad, there's just you know, there's it's just a one or two possessions that were either not finishing it with a rebound or you know, we're missing, you know, missing some shots. And so I think it's it's ads getting into a rhythm earlier and then uh, you know, putting more guys in
positions for a little easier buckets to start games. And then you know, I agree with is like we've got to get I think when Cohler comes back and we get a little bit more production maybe out of the center position, because that that that's hard on the guards when you know, if Tyson's getting a pick and roll and the defense is looking at you know, Cooper Maddie and they're saying, well, I know he's not throwing it to that guy. You know, there's just two guys that are guarding him. So it's
it's that kind of stuff. I don't think we're I mean, we're not far off. It's just we're just, you know, we're not used to be a four and five. I was on the last team I think they went four and five, so I know what they're I know kind of what they're going through. So it's a result of that that we we barely snuck into the tournament. We weren't as good as this team though, uh we were. We were a lot of young guys. There were a lot of
like freshmen, sophomore. We were a short bench, young team that kind of grinded our way into the tournament that year. I think we got enough wins to qualify and then the time is all effect helped and they were like, yeah, we can't leave them out of the tournament, right. So it's but I mean, this weekend is gonna be a tough game. You know, you're playing a top ten Baylor team who's they beat everybody by double
digits. They score a lot of points or good defensively, and then you know, I think we got a stretch of games coming up where a lot of them are winnable. We're just we're just we'll figure it out. Just it's just not as pretty as we were as we had expected right now because we were in the top five to start the season. Mhm. Was that the team that you were on that went on a fifteen game win streak? Is that? You don't think so, I don't think that, you know,
I don't think there's there's a lot of talk about that too. Now when you you brought it up, you touched on it the front court play, You talk about the center position and how you Cooper and Madia you know, are they're not going to throw it to them on the pick and roll? What is the issue going on from your perspective as a as a guard?
And you have those two guys who seem to kind of plateau from last year development wise, and then you have people on the bench that people are, you know, fans are just like, why why aren't we just making moves and changing up the rotation right now? What's your thought on that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, so I get I mean, you know, you're represented. Why is it Booker playing more? Right, there we go, Right, that's the elephant in the room with everybody's why is it Booker
playing more? And I, you know, with with Coop and Maddie, I mean, I think they're playing within the system right now, the way
that they're being asked to play. I just, I mean, it's just not comfortable for really either one of them to get down on the post and to get a ball and take two dribbles very often and make a move and some of the they're they're you know, it might be a confidencing with them maybe uh you know, they're not you know, they're catching the ball in weird situations or scenarios on the you know, they're not going to stop and shoot a fifteen footer. So it's you know, I just I think it's
probably a little bit of a confidence issue. I would imagine coaches, though I was writing, writing them pretty hard about their play right now, and so that can that can have an effect. And then you know, the Booker thing, I would love to see him play too, But I also without seeing practices, you never know how the transition for him has been to college because the game is a lot quicker, uh, there's a lot more to think about when you're in a Big ten play versus in high school.
You know, there's there's reads, there's you know, there's coverages, there's defense, there's offensive sets, there's there's all this thing and and I you know, I read it. You know, I've heard he's working hard in practice, he's coming along and you know he is said, we're going to play him going forward, but he's still going to go out there and make
fresh mistakes and he's going to miss some coverages and do some things. So I mean, it's not like Booker is not going to step on the court and all of a sudden be the big man savior I think we're looking for. But I would, you know, I'm excited about watching him play and in his development. You know, in the games I've been to, you
know, he does good things. He does bad things, but that's to everybody at this point, right and there there's no one's playing flawless yet he's gonna need someone to be able to cover cover up some of his mistakes for him though. So that's where line I think lineups will will will make a difference for for when how books playing guard's gonna have to probably cover up and it'll be it'll be interesting to see if I'm excited. It sounds a lot
like you know Otis. You know in football when you have a hot shot like running back that just doesn't do well in past protection, right, so you know, everybody's like, wow, he why isn't he out on the field more often it's like, well, you know, you'll get your Quarterbai, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean Book's gonna have to Booker's gonna he's gonna have to ball screen coverages, help side defense picking. You know, it's all that stuff. It's like Oti is trying to play man and
man, oh let's go, let's go right now. No, let's like let's go back to your roost though, like okay, like playing it out and Flint, like people don't realize like growing up like basketball and Flint was like I mean the gym it was a hey standing room only you may not get in and playing watching these games and you grew up. You're in the heart, like you're in the heart, like talk about just growing up and
you know your pops. Honestly, mister bogratis tires heavy tires in Michigan State, but just talk about selected Michigan State where you came out to come play at the collegiate level. Yeah, I got I got lucky because my my grandfather was athletic director at my high school when I was young, when I was two three, So I grew up in the gym at Flint Central watching these games just as I kind of went through it like I you know, I watched you know, Antonio Smith and Matinos, I watched them all in
high school. Uh, so I was I got to experience it and and the excitement that they built and and there's so many players that that people have never even heard of at work. Un believable and uh there were so many guys that were unbelievable that just weren't eligible to play. It was. It
was just a fun experience to be a part of. And I think it really helped kind of build that that you know, you had to show up every day and and you know, tie them up tight and get ready to go because you weren't sure you know who was who on the court, but you knew it was going to be tough. And that was that was if you're wining a high school game, if you were at the park, if you were at the y. If you were anywhere there, you knew there
was a tough game. And so I think, you know, just being being a part of that and a part of Flint, it's, you know, that's the foundational piece for me. Was kind of gave me that grit, that and that kind of gravel in my gut a little bit to to to know how to just compete and go after it and win or win lose your draw and then you know, coming out of high school, I actually didn't actually didn't have any offers at all. Coming out of high school.
I had a couple of walk on offers, uh in basketball. One was at Kent State and then Michigan State. And then I actually I toyter around. I met with Bobby Williams about walking off for football, me and Sean Pool. You know, Sean came and played tackle for US. Sean was
my best friend, right, so we were high school teammates. We came on our we came official visits together for football, and so I met with Bobby on that and then but when back I probably would have done that unless but then basketball the opportunity came up, and so I decided to go the
basketball route. Instead of being a walk on and getting my head blasted in every day by eating football guys I practice, I'd have been like number one hundred and seventeen and there you guys would have just been tearing my helmet off every day. Yeah, scout team. Yeah. So so I started, actually my senior year in high school, I started to drive down with my high school basketball coach, Stan Gooch and I would come play open gym two
three times a week whenever they were playing. And that's kind of how it turned into my opportunity. He knew is real well and just said, hey, I think he can help you, you know, whether it's just practice player or not. And so I got They said, yeah, come on down as preferred walk on, and the rest is history. And I red shirted a year my first after my freshman year. We had seven guys league. We had five seniors and two guys go pro, so we just had
to play. We had a short bench. I had to put me in and so I got to play, and then I kind of found my my role, and uh it never looked back. Interesting background. You know you talk about your days at Flint Central. Yeah, and so you you saw matteen and all the Flint Stones that were they count somebody idolized as a youngster. Oh absolutely, I love it. I was you gotta get straight,
get straight education. Man, Like, well, let me know, I'm not a Flint You both you got Flint, Northern, you got Flint, you got Southwestern, and like three, I mean either you go to one of those three. And so Northern was our big rival, right Central and Northern rival, so I would There was a guy at Central named Max Scott who was a guard who he could play but though and he would always battle with Marteen. So I was more of a I was a Max Scott guy
because of Flint Central. But I loved Mateen, I mean Mattina and Tone of those guys. And then I played against Charlie one year in high school. But we were all part of the same AAU organization too. So like when I was like ten or eleven, Charlie baby baby, all our parents let Charlie baby sit us in a hotel in Florida one year. So yeah, yeah, yeah, all the parents they went out, they let Charlie watching Carlos. Yeah Charlie yeah yeah. He was maybe fifteen, yeah,
maybe fifteen, yes, yeah, yeah yeah. So that's how far it kind of goes back. But I did. I would you know. I showed up to campus and they used to sell Flintstone T shirts with all the guys on it. My freshman year, I had one of those. I wore it to like in the weight room one day, and they made fun of me so bad because they're like, Charlie's on the T shirt, He's still on the team. You can't win that shirt. Yeah. Now you
go to the graduate everywhere. I know, no look spartanation. I know, like in the chat they are probably gonna be they're asking, you know, talk about the shot, like talk about the shot, the six option on the floor. Shure, Okay, now tim like you know Timbo, like Timbo knew like confidence is not a lacking skill set for my man. It's like you talking about it. It's like a fishing story too. It gets better every year. Every time I someone asked me about I guess,
uh, yeah, no, it was awesome. I'll be honest. Uh. The funny thing is I wouldn't have been on the court except Calvin Torbert got a concussion that game. Early in that game, he took an elbow to the head and he got hurt, and so I had I ended up playing like twenty five minutes that game or something like that, and I would
guarantee you I wouldn't have been on the court if he was healthy. Yeah, And I just happened to like he he got hit early, and I came on and I played well, uh, you know, defensively and doing my thing. I had a tip in basket early in that game, and so I have no I to this day, I guarantee I wouldn't have been on the court if he was healthy. Uh. And even like Maurice Ager was on the team, and he was just coming back from a stretch fracture, so he was limited then too, so he probably I don't think he
was on the court for that play either. So it's just it's just dumb luck. And I mean, you know, standing in the corner and you know Chris Hills up on top of me and at a balancer. I mean, so they run, they run to those shooters obviously, and he just slid me open. And I could see this shot clock. I can hear a bench counting it down, and I figured I'll get a shot up and if I missed, would get time for a rebound right this time for offensive
rebound. Maybe get another set and just caught it and you know, caught it in rhythm. Good shot knocked it down? Is oh, you know dogs me in the in the in the press conference. But he that's funny. I think people probably thought he was like joking like that was he was. That was an honest answer for him, like if he had a camera on him, he was he I'm sure he was like, do not shoot this fall? And then he yeah, in his head he was going no, yeah, I still tell him I made his like, I made him
what he is today because of that shot. He never I said, you never beat them until I showed up. This is true, Max, he said he he has a couple of things to say back to me about that. But I mean, so this is against Kentucky down in rupp Arena. Yeah, you were able to knock down the three to knock down Kentucky, who was dominant at that time. We got somebody backstage and wants to join in with this discussion. I think choose available bring him on up. I
had to say, what's up to my guy? I couldn't let Timbo on the with drop it in and rearranged him stuff. But you know, I'm glad, I'm glad you could make it for the last like four minutes. Had to rearrange them, so you didn't rearrange anything. He came from the football talk. He's so busy. I'm busy, man, busy like you. Yeah, what's up now much? Man? How you doing? Just you know, telling lies and stories. That's what we all do. That's what we all do. Yeah. We were actually we lived right next to
you for like a hot minute there. Uh in that in that little townhouse area. I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a few years ago. Yeah, we had you know, Tim and he was one of those partiers and we had to get going to Yeah you were calling could play. Yeah, he's such a rule follower and uh noise complaints like I'm a good Catholic. Yeah yeah, I would never do that. No, this
is awesome, man. So that story right there, like talk about your experience with tom Izzo and that team and how it prepared you for life after
basketball. Yeah, I think, I mean, coaches is so good at kind of taking that long term view of like, hey, you guys aren't you know, most of you guys aren't going pro right, so like what, you know, one of these lessons we can learn and kind of instill in you that that you can carry on with you and and you know share now, like I share some of this stuff with with my son as he's as he's coming up with my daughter, and you know, just the work
ethic and the understanding of you know, setting the standard and then and then living up to that standard, uh and not sacrificing you know, the work or your your involvement, uh beyond that. So it's he's been unbelieved. He's been a great kind of person to bounce ideas off of and talk to throughout my life if there's questions I have or just life things to talk about. You know, he's not he doesn't have short conversations. So if I have like an extra couple of hours, I can sit down with him.
Uh, It'll turn into a long conversation. But you know I've done. My wife, who she coached softball, Michi can stay for a while. She was thinking about whether she wanted to be a head coach, and I said, let's go talk to and you know he sat with her for you know, two and a half hours, talking about pros and cons of you know what the head coaching will look like, what does she really want to
do and helping her kind of figure that out. So, you know, he's kind of been that constant, the concept we always you know, I don't talk to him all the time, but I know when I see him or if I need him, he's a phone call away as well. And the family. It's serious, man, He's built one heck of a culture, and you're one of those guys that just kind of embodies the grit, determination and overcoming all adversity. I mean, hey, we're still talking about
the shot. I don't know, twenty something years later, we keep talking about it. It's almost it might be we're very close to twenty years today. It might it was pretty close. It might we're pretty close. But uh yeah, you yeah, I feel great. I feel great. I feel better than I feel better than Jay. You notice, dude, for sure, because they got a lot. You're looking good though. Hey,
I feel good. Yeah, you know, I told him. I told us like for the longest, Timbo, I didn't know you grew hair like you always had the buzz, right, I didn't know about He was like, yeah I didn't. I was like, no, I can't go back. I can't go back. Yeah, that was about I said that's a mair back then. And then one year I just decided I was going to shave my head, like in the middle of the season. I don't know why. It was a group of us. Is that because what night two
came, I was shaved in my head before Drew. I was shaving my head before he even got there. It was we It was me and Jason Andreas were sitting in our apartment one night and we were like, hey, let's save our heads, and we just did it, like for no, we had no good reason to do it. It was like, I mean, it was in the summer, like we just got but I don't even where you got clippers for. We just first cut right down the middle, like no turning back. It was it was a college decision, man,
you know, like, you know, let's let's shave. It's the middle of the summer. We were probably you know, we're probably in between workouts or something. You never you never got to go home, so it was
like I was always in the campus at the trailer crossing pool parties. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a capstone I think capstone was yeah, yeah, I do got to say though, something that we both have in common that Michigan said we both had the number thirty, so you know, you know, big shout out to you that you know the number thirty there. I I was so happy that you called me to see if you were
allowed to wear it before you got I never told you this. I was so honored that you wore it in honor of me, you know, your celebration, like it was like Timbo. Yeah, everyone thought it was too too like, No, it was tim You know. It means a lot. Yeah, it's a little. Yeah, it's something you don't They just haven't heard that story. But you know, we go, we go so far. It's gonna catch. I love it. It's gonna be like because I can't wait. I hope, I hope it does catch somehow in some
chat room somewhere that that's the rumor. Bob Knickerbocker called you and you if it was okay. I don't know about you. I didn't even get to pick my number. They just handed me a jersey and you was the only one. Yeah, they didn't even know it was coming. Prud was like, who are you? He did? That's what I he said, who are you? I said, I then you walk on. He was like, he's like and it was almost like he was mad at me. He rolled his eyes, like, all right, here, here's your stuff.
There's another one here. You're fine. I didn't have a jersey. I didn't have a name on my jersey. My whole first season I had under my warm up. He was like, you're never going to take that thing off, so don't worry about it. I was like, really, yeah, he said, I had to earn my name on my jersey. Don't even worry about it. Don't worry about it. Yeah. That was like that until like two thousand and three, and then we had another walk on
who had to play in like we played Stanford. We had another walk on, Brian Westrick, who had to play, and then he took it. I was like, why is his name on his jersey? It never happened to get out of that run. In his own operation, He'll tell you nothing. I have that jersey somewhere. It's it's here somewhere. I have no name on them. Actually, my mom might have it somewhere. She might have gotten my name, so on it. You gotta jump to more time. So so as a former player. You know we talk we always
talk about name, image of likeness in IO. Right, Yeah, the game of it is, you know, if you don't got the best, you know you ain't gonna get the best recruits. And you know it doesn't affect the locker room. There's a lot of questions, but like, what's your take on in IO? And we always ask a really important question if we had it back then, what would be your first deal? Oh great, what would have been? Uh? What's my thoughts on it? You
know it's I I wish I understood it more than I do. Outside of there's a lot of people that seem to be making a lot of money, right and so uh, I like I like the fact that people can benefit from their name, image and likeness. I don't like the fact that I'm not certain that all the athletes are set up to handle it the best possible
way. Like if you were at eighteen years old, if someone gave you one hundred thousand dollars, you are screwing all that money up, Like it's gone right, Like I just like I and I don't know enough about the back end. But like, I think the educational piece is important. I think there's at some point they're gonna I don't know if they can rein it back in because that horse is already out of the barn. Right, So you got you got athletes that are you know so and so is an eye
value is six million dollars. I don't know how you. I don't know how you reel it back in. But I don't think there's no slowing it down, and there's no stopping you know, a player from being a free agent every year when there's that much cash involved. I mean, and my first deal, I don't know if I would have gotten a deal Rick's all
American cafe. Oh well that's the award. Yeah. Uh, you know what I might have tried to I might have tried to get a deal in a golf course or something like that, like Hollow or something something like that. But America. Yeah, you go, you visit herm at Ricks with your Ni L card. Yeah, when you're done, you go right to Ponchero's. Yeah. Card. I would have been it right there. I
would have been thinking so small scale, the big daddy taxi. I forgot about it because there was no uber that would have been that would have been like a four hundred dollars nil deal and it covered you for the whole year of two dollars taxi rides around these lands. Exactly. Yeah, the ni L stuff. You have the n c A president now trying to put some
guardrails. He's introduced new legislation, not legislation, but ideas of trying to limit, you know, get all the schools to put money in themselves, because right now it's it's kind of a wild wild West look at it. There is no school involvement so to speak. Uh, so you have outside collectives and you know agents that are you know, shopping kids around. I mean, that's what it is. It's free agency, and it's supposed to be. They only get the one move for free, right. You get
that you can go into the portal once. But once you do that and you transfer, you're supposed to be stuck until you graduate again. But I don't know, it doesn't seem like a lot of guys are doing that either. So guys are girls. So there's a lot of loopholes and things that people can do to get waivers from the NCAA. I know that we can go deep on that, but it is a wild wild West show that's going
on right now. In regards to that, the transfer portal nil everything, So transfer portals, I think it's I think the transfer porter portal is a first hand, real world experience for people to understand where they where they sit in the pecking order of sports. Right you and your you have a flat a sense of how good you really are until you put your name in that portal and realize, oh, there's seven hundred people in this portal and there's
maybe a hundred spots available. And then once you're in the portal, like you can't go back to the same school, really, I mean can you can? But it's like your teammates looking at you like, hey, you know, you didn't really want to be here until you realize really, this is the only So I don't know. That's one thing is, you know, I give him a lot of credit on a lot of this stuff. He's he didn't like any of it, and he's been vocal about it. But and he's right on a lot of that stuff. I don't know.
You know, if if schools have to put the money in, you know, that's not ship Georgia and Alabama and they're gonna they got plenty of money. They got plenty of money. It's probably easier for them. It's like Nebraska's got the moment. Then there's nothing in Lincoln. From Lincoln to Omaha, there's nothing but the University of Nebraska. That's true. And then you
know, if I've all the Nile stuff too. Is like, if you're a donor, do you want to you know, you could give your money to the school and get some value that way as a donor, or do you give it to this collective where I don't know what the value is to me giving my money to a collective all the time, like, you know, unless I know the people facilitating it, or how they're negotiating these deals, who's writing these contracts? You know, how is this stuff all happening?
Like I just I don't know. There's it was like they they let it go and then they kind of thought, oh man, I think we should have thought about this some more. And now it's like, well, you got kids getting paid by Gatorade. There it's not you know, good luck getting doctor Pepper to stop there in al program right by the way, They're wonderful except for the one kid DJ. What's the kid that actually transferred, you know, from Clemson djild We just got his coach from Yeah,
he was at somewhere and then he got the doctor Pepper Dealer. Worst year of his career. I had to transfer. M hm, this is true. They gave it to Bryce Young. I mean, it's it's just yeah, it's a lot of pressure that goes along with the money that comes with uh N I l obviously now, you know we've talked about this on a couple of shows ago, where quarterbacks are getting pressure from the stand you know,
from from fan basis, and then you're not necessarily good enough. This is why you're seeing Kyle McCord goes eleven and one at Ohio State in the portal about to go to Nebraska. You know, Hey, it's it's gonna be one of those have and have not scenarios. But it's gonna be a while for this to level out. You know, the market's going to eventually level out, but it's you know, we're getting there probably three or four years away. Yeah. Man, hey, listen, we really got before
let him go. Uh what what's now too? Yes? What are you doing now? Company? Update? Tell us what you're doing. Yeah. So I'm still in the East Lanton area, live in Oaklan. It's worked for a company in Lansing, Maynard Castarras, and it's actually an accounting firm, and I do all their sales and business development for the firm. So uh, you know, never thought I'd worked for an accounting firm, but
it's been. It's been great. Company has been in the Lansing area for one hundred and twenty years now and the Lancing Grand Rapids and so I've been here for about five years. And other than that, manches. You know, I got a twelve year old and a seven year old. So I'm in gym's or a gymnastics place. Yeah, see it's swim class like, I'm in all that stuff. I'm in all the fun stuff. So I'm you know, helping coach things with them and driving the games and tournaments and
you know, trying to catch some Michigan State stuff here and there. That's awesome. Yeah, man, I appreciate you. Sp spartans Man. My son is Tyler, and my daughter's Olivia, So okay and Olivia practice. I'm gonna tell him. I'm going to tell him you you said that legacy legacy. Yeah, well, I appreciate that. Around here, I appreciate you guys having me on it's you know, it's always fun to catch up with guys that have gone through it and are still protecting that the brand and
the and that Spartan logo. So and you did a great job protecting the brand. So that was that the OKG are kind of guy. Okay, Okay, I didn't know where you're I thought, I that's sure. Yeah, I appreciate definitely are that. Yeah, So hey, we appreciate you joining the show Man. Love to have you back because the season is going to be, uh, you know, a season that you may help us navigate through with basketball we're talking about here, so it's going to get through
this signing day for football. Would definitely love to have you back. Thanks for joining us. Let me know, let me I appreciate it. Just tell otus. Don't text me at ten forty five, I was sleeping, You were sleeping. We were just getting off the podcast. That's the difference. That's the difference, all right. I appreciate Michigan State basketball faces Baylor. Let's hope that they can pull off a big This will be a huge win for Michigan State basketball guys. So look, until we get to next
week, for Otis Wiley, Jay You Call, Come Jason Strayhorn. This is part of the ms You have a good night, God, bless and go greet. This is part by MSU is a combined presentation of Play Black Sports Properties and Michigan State Sports Properties. The show is produced by Tony Le Barbara Tony Gstella and Process Driven Consulting. Additional supports provided by Brendan Duravage on
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