This is Gavin Newsom.
I'm still learning the roads here.
That's good. And by the way, you're in Springfield right now.
I wasn't. I just got back this morning. I drove back and today DHS announced sixty days and they're gone for the Haitians. So the families that I met with, who are you know, law abiding? They're working, they fill out W two's, they pay taxes, they got Social Security numbers. The mayor wants them, the governor wants them, the city council wants some business, church leaders. Trump wants them out based on a slander of them. And they have sixty
days and they're hiding in their homes. Governor, they are hiding in their homes. And the baby's twelve hundred babies born since they've been here. Now the spring Court throws their fate into doubt.
It's, you know, good for you forgive me to selfishly stadi it. It's so often and it's so interesting just from your prism. Now this this sort of new alignment with with where you're where, what you're doing. UH, that you're going back to a story that everybody's moved on from. UH that was weaponized in a rubric of debates and a political campaign. Uh, and now reminding everybody of the human side of all this and the impacts. But it's what you just said about the mayor and the governor
and the community. Uh, this only reinforces just the absurdity of this moment.
Yeah, and now you're uh fighting back in a really interesting way. I read the suit, I read the claims a bunch of questions. But you're suing Fox News. I assume everybody's watching at this point, and there'll be more coming, know that.
So why what's your beef and not well beef is you know? You can't maliciously slander someone. You can't defame someone by altering facts, editing facts, no, doing that without being held to some higher level of ethics and accountability.
I have no problem.
Look, we all know Fox is a propaganda network, but it's under the guys of being a news organization, being journalists, and there's rules of engagement as it relates to that. And you know, he Donald Trump and I had a phone call on June sixth, early morning, maybe June seventh. Four days later, Donald Trump lied and said, well, we talked the day before. I highlighted the fact we never talked the day before Fox decided to cover up for
the president's lie. Uh and they knowingly did that in a way that defamed and I just think we need to call that out now. It's it's one thing to be on the receiving en and I've been on the receiving that Fox for years and years and years. But there's red lines, and on this red line that crossed it. And I want a simple apology. I'm not looking. You know, you've got to file these in your your own, your own individual accord. It's you know, the malice is a
high bar. But they're dead to write on this. I mean, they had a Chiron who said Gavin Lye Trump call. I mean, so they've got to apologize that they don't. They need to be held to account and we want to seek damages.
Right, you're asking for an apology. And seven hundred and eighty seven million dollars you heard.
That number before. Where'd that number come from? That's the that's the dominion lawsuit. And this they reacted to the dominion lawsuit with a press release that they put out against this lawsuit that almost was you know, you almost could have cut and pasted it. And they paid a big price there. But what they did do is they didn't fundamentally change their practices. And that's the point. That's the point of this lawsuit. This money doesn't come to me,
it's not about any of that. This this is charity goes someplace else. But this is about changing these practices, these unethical practices.
And you know, I don't do this lightly.
I got a bunch of calls there, this is actually why this happened.
You know, I watched Jesse Waters. I watched John Roberts.
I mean, that's just straight news John and Jesse tries to sort herself in that respect. And I got a bunch of calls, said, why'd you lie about the Trump call from friends? I said, what do you mean I lied about it? Just making that up and say, well, that's not what I'm seeing on Fox. And so I'm
constantly battling that. I'm like, this is doing damage. It was not just on the sixty five million people and watched Fox and Fox Business, but hundreds of millions on social and it was weaponized on the right and it started to bleed it and and and so for me, that crossed the line.
And that's why I'm pushing back.
That is the way that's the system works on that side. Look, I was obviously in corporate legacy, mainstream media, whatever you want. I had a great career, loved it. I have nothing bad to say about my colleagues. But it's like they're fighting or they're trying to tell the truth blindfolded to the reality of what's happening to the truth, is what
I would say. It was frustrating being in there because there Trump has this power of bending reality for people, and Fox's sister's whole ecosphere assists him in doing that, and kind of both sides are the kind of vocabulary that you can use is very difficult to serve the people with still.
And it's it's it's look, it's and that's not news worthy in and of itself. What you said, it's spot on, but it's really eroding trust and it's hurting our democracy, and it's it's code read. And you think Fox, who's just the most blatant and you know, I mean just notoriously the most blatant as it relates to being a propaganda network, would have learned that lesson with that seven and eighty seven million dollars settlement.
With dominion.
But they haven't, and they continue to cover up for the folly and the lies of this president. And it's one thing for the president to lie. It did it just a few months moments ago, quite literally about water in California.
Again any's obsession. But you don't cover up for that.
You don't willfully and knowingly and maliciously cover up for those lies, edit information and alter what you present as fact and defame people.
You can't do that.
Is there something about the past few months in this second term? And I don't want to post facto rationalize what I did. I wasn't thinking it's too much. It's the straw that breaks the camel's back. I thought I was describing accurately a public figure in America.
By the way, a few words rung more true than those words. Forgive me. That's just my editorial opinion, all right.
And I actually was worse is it wasn't like a drug tweet. I actually looked at it and I read it. Yeah, that's true, it's sin. There you go. But my point is that there is this hammer blow, this daily bludgeoning of the body politic with cruelty, right and and and lies at every point demoralizes people. And I've seen you
over the past couple of years. It seems one of things I really respected and enjoyed you doing was crossing over going to Fox and and debating Hannity, you know, taking them out of having a good debate with DeSantis. People appreciate that. But there is there something about the past few months and the Democrats crying out for someone to do something that is part of the background to you pulling what is in some ways it's done right this lawsuit.
Yeah, look back to lawsuit.
But let me go back almost three years ago today, because we just celebrated and not celebrated. We lamented the anniversary of the Dobbs decision three years ago. And I remember being a playing parata in southern California in La say, where the hell is my party? And it was an indictment of individual leaders. It wasn't even indictment of the you know, the DNC. It was sort of, frankly, it
was dting on my own lack of accountability. At this moment that the other side was dominating the narrative on CRT and DEI ESG. They were censoring and historic facts, rewriting history quite literally rewriting social studies books and places
like Florida. And I was watching the weaponization and the propaganda coming from these networks, not just Fox One, American News, Newsmax, and how they're able to shapeshift the conversation, and how my party, the Democratic Party, was consistently on the defense. And that's where I woke up. I said, you know what, the world we're living in has happened on our watch. Society becomes how we behave take some responsibility, man, and so I decided I needed to actually not just complain
about something. I needed to do something. And that's when I started to reach out and went on Fox and I had Hannity.
I said, let's go.
Let's go into Ronald Reagan's old building, the old governor's mansion, where Reagan was ask me anything you want. Let's do an unedited hour hour and a half interview. We did that, and I started to go back on Fox, and that's why I ended up. And I appreciate your reference to the debate with Rondo Santis, and so I think that's healthy.
I thought it was a point.
A lot of my members of my party were critical, saying, why do you even indulge those guys.
It's all fake news, et cetera.
But I thought it's important to meet people where they are, so I sail that in the context of this lawsuit, I have a high threshold for the bullshit on Fox.
Is the point, all right.
I wouldn't do this unless I felt they really did cross the line, and I don't. It's not about money for a nonprofit, it's about accountability. I really did hope and expect after that dominion lawsuit they would stop, but they haven't. And right now, if you're covering up for the cruelty, God bless you, that's the right word, not just the chaos, for the abject lies in mistruths of this administration, you can't lay claim to being a news organization any longer. That's what this lawsuits about.
I think that is exactly the conundrum that my former colleagues and across the establishment legacy, corporate, mainstream media, whatever you want to call it. They are doing their best. I love my respect them. They're doing great work. But there's something that's changed in this moment. It is a
moment in history where it requires a different response. I think I'm discovering that in myself, and I do think that I wonder if one of the things you're trying to do is give heart to people who see this, who are bludgeoned and either on the sidelines, I don't want to get involved. They may have even voted for Trump don't like it, or certainly the people who didn't
vot for Trump feeling in despair. He is all powerful, controlling the narrative, and now just bring the hammer down in every walk of life.
I wish I could show you a video I just got right before we went on from a friend of mine down in San Diego. In this young woman torn away from her car by mass men, screaming and yelling, turns out to be a housekeeper at a well known hotel in southern California, a member of Local eleven unit here just ripped off the streets by mass men. This is the moral moment. This is happening in America. Have five thousand federalized troops, the US military in the streets
of Los Angeles in twenty twenty five. Today, I mean, this is to your point, things have radically changed. You can't operate with the old constructs people talk about. I heard, you know, there's been some punitry. You know, we're moving towards authoritarianism, and it depends which lens, which set of eyes you have. How About to that young woman on the street, We're already there. For some of us that have more privileged we're not there yet. And so I
want to speak for those folks to your point. Yeah, for things to change, you've got to change. It's not what happens, it's how we respond to what happens. And I need to be held to a higher level of accountability. And so I appreciate the frame of your question. Yeah, I've changed. I've changed.
I've changed when those National Guard were federalized.
I changed when I started to see members of our community torn asunder, terrorized by these raids, and people in masks and things that I've never thought i'd see in this country, to see people deported, disappeared. I was with a twelve year old boy, same age as of my kids, crying, who lost his mother and father they disappeared. They went to the same job site they've been going to twenty years in Ox's, California, and he had no one, he didn't even know get back in his own house. That's
Trump's America. So when you say those words terry about Stephen Miller, you were goddamn right. Excuse my language, you were right, and he is wrong, and it's wrong for us to operate under the old rules. Forgive me for being intense about this, but a lot of people are counting us to do more and be better.
I respect that intensity. That's where we have to find our courage, right, we have to find it there, and I appreciate what you're saying about that. I will say that, having just gotten back one of the things, if you don't mind a personal note, the outpouring of people signing up for this and actually very very kind and genuine support for some I didn't, you know, from one perspective, really screwed up.
Right.
This is not the way I'd recommend leaving a job. But as I say, I'm kind of exhilarated and excited by the possibilities and by the work ahead, the good work that you're talking about ahead. But I do feel that it became for a lot of people a galvanizing moment, right, They a sense that, Okay, whatever you think of what he said, including some of my neighbors, I live in a kind of a purple neighborhood in Frederick, Maryland, closer
to Antietam and Gettysburg. Then at Washington, d C. And a lot of my neighbors voted for Trump, and one of them in particular, you know, very strong for Trump. He told my wife, he said, tell your husband, you know, I really respect him. I though what he did was brave. I mean, you know, look at us at his social feeds. He loves that. It was very encouraging for me. I feel very encouraged. But the point of it is, I think the point the cruelty is the point to dishearten people,
make them amenable to more and more authority. And just one more note. In Springfield, one of the young Asian men that I spoke with, he had a brain tumor in Haiti. They couldn't help him. Came to the United States, started working, got on Obamacare, got the brain tumor operated on. But they had to remove his pituitary glands. So he needs to regulate his hormonal system. If they send him back, he'll die. And he said, I don't go out of the house because anyone can wear a mask. Memories from Haiti.
Anyone can wear a mask and put ice on them. I don't know if they're kidnappers or if they're the law.
So there are.
Thousands of people hiding in their homes from the federal government who are were until a couple of weeks ago here lawfully good employees. You go ask the businesses down there, the dole plant, automachining plants. You ask the mayor and the city council. These are good people, the vast majority of them, and they're hiding from our government. That's to me a disgrace. It is a disgrace.
But you've reinforced this point, and I want to amplify the point I think you're making that the cruelty is the point, but the point being that that demoralization just completely neuters us, and we become numb, and we no longer are active. We're inert, and that is exactly what he wants. He wants to crush us into submission. He wants to overwhelm. The shock in eyes about overwhelming us,
and so we cannot maintain neutrality at this time. It was Dante said, the hottest place in Hell is reserved at a time more christis for those that maintain their neutrality.
This is not a neutral moment, and I think, look, this lawsuit, I hope represents just an expression of that I want both to know we're not just going to roll over, that We're gonna have people's backs, people that may not have a voice, people that may not have the privilege that you and I have to even be able to go on substack, to be able to have this conversation, to reach a few people that are kind enough to take the time to listen to know that
they matter and we care. There are people out there that give a damn. You gave a damn to go back to Springfield and checking with people that that that were used purely as a political you know, political fodder, that were used as subjects, not human beings, and to humanize them. Uh, that's important, and it's more important now
than ever. So Look, I think it's in that same spirit that that that we initiated this lawsuit and same spirit to which we're pushing back against, uh, these authoritarian and tendencies and uh and in Trump.
Isn't can I ask you before before we move on the the New York May Old primary, mc donnie winning winning and and Cuomo going down to defeat a lot of Democrats are seeing that as as a signal of a new direction. A lot of other Democrats are saying that this is maybe New York City, but it would not work in other parts of the country. How do you read that politically?
I think my my experience in this respect is we tend to overstate in the short term lessons learned, or we extrapolite the lessons that frankly just reinforce our own pre existing biases of.
What this means or what this doesn't mean.
But to the credit of man Donnie, this was a hell of a campaign. I mean, you know, you could distinguish the message from the messenger, but his ability to galvanize and to organize, to use the tools of technology.
And new media to create a.
I thought, a personality that even if you disagreed, you kind of had a little more trust and was rather extraordinary. And so from that perspective, in the power of emulation success leaves some clues. Now what this means ultimately for the Democratic Party, was this really apprediation of Cuomo came out with a lot of baggage. Was this more parochial politics in the context of just one American city, though the largest is to be to turn.
But I think it's a one thing.
I think it is is a giant wake up call that democracy is still alive and well bottom up. And if you're looking at this for the prism, I think particularly U Speaker Johnson, you're recognizing you got eighteen months left. And if you're looking at this, as Susie Wiles, the chief of staff of the President, your administration ends in eighteen months. We're going to take back the house. Where you're seeing young people reawaken here. They haven't gotten the
message about the cynicism yet, they're still engaged. And for me, that was maybe the most compelling takeaway from what occurred last week.
Well that that is a great positive, hardening end because people people are looking for something to look forward to, the good hard work of saving the country, right.
Saving the kind of look at you know, if it's what cannot overstate, that's that's simple statement that you just made Supreme Court, Maate.
It more challenging today.
Look, we just cannot live in the divided States of America any longer. Uh you know, I'm sort of paraphrasing Bill play. You can't divorce is not an option. We're going to have to find the terms of the future to live and advance together across our differences. And and and I think you know, one thing people need to see is other people's courage. And and for those people that turned out and voted, uh, that's that's an active citizenship. And the office of citizen right now is the most
important office of all. And and I think for all the assaults on institutions, that's the institution that will endure.
And that's what gives me hope and optimism.
All right, well, great, thanks, thanks very much. It was just fun.
This was fun.
Terry, thanks for having me on and Congress on everything. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thank you, thank you, good luck, good luck in court.
Thank you with them