Welcome to Conversations With. My name is Shaylee Huggendorn and I live with Bipolar II Disorder. Sharing with others is healing both individually and collectively. Sharing our stories will educate others, bring more understanding, shed more light, and smash more stigma. Our voices need to be heard. Our stories aren't over yet. This is Bipolar. Hi everyone! Welcome back to another episode of This is Bipolar. If you're new here, I'm Shaylee Hugendorm. My pronouns are she, her.
I am a mom, I'm a teacher, and a creator, and a podcaster, and I live with bipolar 2 disorder and think of myself as a mental health activist, a bipolar advocate, and I am so excited about my guest today. Before we introduce her, I just wanted to remind you, I started subscriptions on Instagram. So if you want to to see more, hear more, or just even just support the work I'm doing. I would love for you to go on there.
DM me if you don't know how, but basically you press the subscribe and it figures it all out for you. Also, you get exclusive extra footage podcast. And so my guests and I are going to have some extra stuff. So once you hear it here and you love her, you're going to want to go there. So without further ado, I will introduce you to my new best friend. Her name is Hannah Bloom. like who gets that awesome of a name? Mine's Hugendorn. Thank you.
Love it. Are you kidding me? Rock that last name. That's fantastic. Yeah, there's a lot of O's. There's a lot of O's. Hannah is I came across her work. All of y'all know our co host Julie, Julie introduced me to her work. And Hannah has just put language to things that I felt inside and actually have never been able to express before. So I feel so seen in her in her writing. We are going to talk about her new book. I'm so excited. Oh, mind, where have you gone today?
And clearly, I just want to thank you for putting a redhead on the front because I feel like there was some representation here. I was like, this book was meant for me. Always. The artist of that, you know, want to hear something interesting? Yes, I do. That did that. Her name is Ash Walker. But the thing is, is, you know, she knows I have blonde hair. But when she read the manuscript, that was the first thing that came to her. It started with a woman with red hair.
Basically, my book is based off a woman that with red hair. Yes. Thank you for writing me a book. Of course. I mean, you know, we're besties now. I just want to dive into everything. thing. But before that, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Where are you from? What do you love? Who are you? Oh my gosh, who am I? I wear many different hats, but I am Hannah Bloom, as you said, and I am a writer, an author, and a mental illness activist. That's where I started.
I have a blog. I'm a blogger. I've been in this world for about a decade, which I can't believe I'm saying. And mental illness and advocacy has really been a core of my art. And I've been able to build, I'd like to say a community of people with, you know, I think people that are just, that are looking to be empowered, that have kind of been shamed for their emotions. Of course, though, people with mental illness, I live with bipolar two disorder.
I came out with that and came out with the blog, they kind of co like came together. And that's when I started writing and sharing my art and activism about mental illness. And, you know, I'm again, I wear many hats. I'm living in Washington, DC. I love it.
And that that's pretty much the short and sweet of me I love it I love it because we're going to go into all the rest of you as as we start I'm so excited and I'm so grateful for your activism like there was not a lot of people out there there was not any writing I was desperate I was diagnosed in 2010 and I was desperate and so when I yeah when I found your work I was like oh maybe maybe I'll tell people one day and then And here I am. Oh my gosh, what a beautiful, that makes me so happy.
That makes me really happy because I definitely agree that. I was like one of the first on Instagram to come be open, like about bipolar disorder, saying I have it to see it's kind of grown now. I would say, yeah, over a decade later is, it's quite interesting. Actually in like 2016, I wrote an article for teen Vogue that said Instagram will be the next platform for mental health advocacy, which it ended up being.
Way to go Graham I do me too me too I always joke I call the other one the tick tocks and I'm like trying to get on do the time but my teenagers are like your your mom you're embarrassing and I'm like whatever whatever but I I just I love Instagram and as much as we you know talk badly about social media honestly it's life-saving for me to have these connections like you don't I don't, meet regularly meet until i started sharing bipolar folks all around and just
to see that there's you know you know there's more out there you know the stats but to like me and you right here it's just like my whole body just relaxes i'm like i don't have to be anything i don't have to mask anything we were joking about we might cut each other off we speak each other's fast language which? Chop and dice, slice and dice. Yeah. Well, I would love to bring it back, Hannah. I would love to hear about your childhood and if or when did you feel different?
Did you notice that maybe you felt more feelings? I'd love for you to bring me back there. Yes, of course. Oh, my gosh. What a great question. Well, I had a wonderful upbringing. Okay. Shout out to my parents. I really did. So growing up, I was very fortunate to have a very supportive, loving family, which is seems kind of rare today. So I'm very grateful for that. Did I feel different? I did. I felt different. I think I felt different.
And I see that looking back at the time, I didn't know that I was different, but my imagination has always been intensely active. And I know everybody says, Hey, all kids have imaginations. I know that I was a nanny for eight years. I know they have imagination, but mine was constant. I was, I won't say disassociating, but I would craft stories in my head constantly. Everything had a meaning. Every person was like a character. And it was fun. It was fun.
I think later on, it came with being emotional and those extremes became present. But I also, during my childhood, again, when I look back, I'm in my 30s, and I look back at some of the things I was writing as a child. I never knew I was going to be a writer, but I did love to write stories, express myself. When I look at it, I'm like, whoa, like you were definitely feeling some like things and you could see it in the letters and in cards that I would write to like my grandparents.
It was very emotionally in tune. And so that was definitely present, but it wasn't until really the teenage years that I said things kind of way, actually not teenage years, because I remember like at nine or 10, I started with a little bit of an eating disorder. I became curious about it. So I think me, I call it the beginning of the disconnect there, disconnect from body. And then it slowly progressed. High school had a great high school experience. You know, I was prom queen.
I looked, you know, like I had that thing together. Yeah, no. Yeah. I'm not just throwing it out there, but I love it. Well, the reason too, I say it is because that's also when I had my breakdown. It's this idea that you never know what people are going through on the inside. Right. And then, yeah. So then, you know, end of, end of, oh, wait, wait. So you haven't gotten into the whole diagnosis. You just wanted to know the childhood part.
Yeah. Well, I want to know everything but now I'm completely intrigued by this time in your life it sounds you know vaguely familiar I was not the prom queen but just the the looking like my you know that my life was amazing and like you I had you know my parents obviously my parents were a little on the the relaxed side and hippie side so having an anxious child some of the things that we we did probably looking back if we had known we might not have we moved a
lot all that kind of stuff right I thought that that was an important point and if you're listening and you love someone and or just you have bipolar yourself it one of the things about bipolar is that it's not completely rooted like in trauma right it's not yeah it's a brain illness right so that it doesn't. It doesn't completely, it isn't the same as like borderline or other ones that cause that. And I think that that's a big misunderstanding about bipolar disorder.
And so it's hard for people to look for it. Cause they'll, you know, cause it's, you're a hundred. I am so glad you said that because that's something I've been writing about and like really want to talk about is that I think a little bit where the mental health movement with psychologists and stuff kind of talking about mental illness, which don't even get me started in a lot of those areas. But the thing is, there's some ways that they do discuss it that I find to be very harmful.
And that's the idea that you have, you that, you know, debating whether or not it's real, that something must have happened to you in your childhood, something, it has to be rooted. You know, your parents must have done something that it's not this condition. It's from, you know, childhood trauma. And look, were there things that happened in my childhood, like every other human being? Yeah. Yes. Was it to the extent compared to other people?
What would make me, I didn't have the worst childhood in the world. You know what I mean? Like what would, why was it then that I was diagnosed when the kid who was put in foster care didn't have any parents, but is living, you know, a life in therapy and stuff. How is it? I have this diagnosis.
They don't. So I think your trauma idea, I think people do have to be careful with that because when you think that if the, for the people that feel like they had everything growing up, that they did have a supportive family, they feel very guilty.
They feel a lot of shame because they're like you know people and you see people that came from very traumatic backgrounds and you're like I don't have a right to be upset I don't have a right and that's a very dangerous narrative to push and it keeps you from getting help exactly exactly it's like what do I have to be sad about right and society is kind of like what's wrong what's wrong and what What I'm really trying to, and my friends are so open to listening and,
and I tend to do it. It's human nature. We want to know the reason, right? The reason. And the fact is like. I get completely depressed for no reason. Yes. Some things can trigger it, but like it's for no reason. So sometimes asking me, you know, what happened is like heartbreaking because I feel like I, I feel like I need to make up a reason. I was literally having a, like, I've been speaking about it since 2016, like whether it be, I do public speaking.
And then this podcast happened in, in 2020. 20. And I was thinking even the other day that affects me because I was talking to my daughter's boyfriend. And I was saying like, I don't, sometimes I don't feel like I should take up this space with my podcast, because, you know, I'm, I'm managing well, or there are it's always this, there are people worse off. And so like, some days, as our brain does, I'm like, do I even have bipolar, right?
And so I feel like a fraud, right? Oh, I find that interesting. I find that interesting because I think that if you are well, it is why I think the people that we can, because the bottom line for me is I have my moments, but compared to other people with it, I am not naive to the fact that there are levels.
That's why is because if you are someone that can manage it in many ways that can speak up, I think it's more of an incentive for you to be able to do the podcast and speak and bring that community together and get awareness for those people. Yeah. And I didn't.
Like I know all that but I didn't think that was still there so when it came out I was like there's some self-stigma there's some societal things that I have completely completely absorbed and so and I think too I always remind people like it's so vulnerable to show up on here and show up on the podcast so of and my like armor is dressing up and so I look like I'm all you know like oh she was together and I just want to remind people that even with medication even with
the things like that's why even though it's hard I show up on Instagram a total mess like all the time I'm just like I will I've made a pact with myself that I won't just that I'll show up in the messy middle right which is hard because I like to talk about the you know like yes that it's over or this idea of healing, not being linear. I had my first, like, since I had meds, it took the depression mostly away.
I had my first like low grade depression that was, you know, consistent, but didn't feel like before. So I didn't know anyways. And I literally felt like, Oh, we're here. How can you're here again? Like, I was like mad at myself, but I know the things. Have you ever felt like that? Yes. You know, be, wait, explain like being mad at yourself about what? No, I almost think like, oh, well.
You're you're no you're an activist you're like how are we back here again I get like that when I get back in an episode like how are we back here again okay right and me and like as if it's my fault right when it's an illness do you ever do you ever stop stigmatize okay I know exactly what you're talking about as as far as my own personal experience with that I think because through like, you know, learning about mental illness, the history,
really studying it over the last decade, being around a lot of people with mental illness. The one thing that I realized was we have this belief again, again, a lot because society tells us that cures are possible, that healing is possible. If I sit on a mountaintop and, you know, you know, and just us like, listen to the birds, suddenly I'm going to be centered and manifest the life without bipolar.
This is untrue. And yeah, I mean, maybe, you know, in an alternate world, maybe AI may take us somewhere, but no, for now. And why I'm saying that as it relates to what you're saying is I try to promote and want people to understand, because I saw that this, what you went through was a the problem was that we set ourselves up for disappointment.
And, you know, we tell ourselves when we get to a place where it feels good, that the minute we drop, we're failures, we're losers, we're sick, we're ill. And that is a very, that, that is going to lead to a cycle of disappointment. So what I realized is that, and I think the better answer is what I accepted was I have a condition and it does put me on a roller coaster. And that's my life. And that's okay. There are people with other disabilities.
They're their life. They're not going to, you know, get cured of a lot of things. You know, I have family members that have disease and it's never going to go away. And we kind of have to accept in many ways that. And it's about understanding, okay, you live on a roller coaster. How best can I manage this? How can I slow it down? How can I be aware? and, and not beat myself down and think that because I fell back in an episode, I failed. It's just, no, you didn't. You did.
It's part of your life. It managing management. Yeah. It's one thing, but being self-aware and being self-aware that like, this is not to find my healing and accepting that it is a real condition and it's part of your life. Yes, exactly. Exactly that. It's just so like you said, the acceptance part, right? Yeah. And then to see it as a symptom, like if someone was bleeding, or I have a friend with with diabetes, they wouldn't be like shocked. Oh, I had high blood pressure, right? Yes.
Right. I try to think of it, you know, with illnesses that are high maintenance, like, like our own, like that. Yeah. And that really, really helps me. I love that. Yeah. And when we don't, we just like, sorry, one more point. No, tell me all the points. Oh yeah. Okay. Don't tell me that. Too many points. But I think also a reason why it's hard for us is because we get such mixed signals, right? We're on social media. Suddenly a psychologist posts about.
How to heal, get rid of your bipolar. So people jump on that. They're in a depression. They're like, okay. Then we get told the other thing. Then we go to the doctor. They say, no, no, you've got to be on meds. Then we go back on social media and it's like how to live a holistic life. And so we're getting all of these different ideas and messages that makes it hard for people with mental illness to accept it.
That's why what you're doing, what I'm doing, what a lot of advocates are doing is so important, especially the ones living with mental illness. It's a completely different ballgame. Yeah. Yeah. It's not, it's not textbook. I value lived experience so much. We need all of that, but that is, you know, all the medical stuff has been very, very loud and it's so important. It's like the lived, I want to hear from lived experience, Right.
I want to hear how other people I want me too. Right. I want to. Yes. Yes. Right. The power, the power of it. I would love to go back to this time of prom queen of high school of the falling apart. Tell me what that looked like for you. And I'm assuming that this might have led up to your diagnosis. I want to hear, hear about that. Oh, yes. Okay. So, you know, I would say around, I wasn't, again, I was an athlete, you know, I was very athletic on the outside.
It would appear as though I was doing all of the right things that I was living the formula for someone who had a perfectly emotional, stable life. I had a good family. I was in high school. I was popular. I was, you know, again, like the prom queen and stuff and was an athlete. But my junior year, I am going to say things hit the fan. I'll say, okay. I, the, the emotions began to become so overwhelming the way I would describe it is I wanted to crawl out of my own skin.
It felt like that. I still have those moments. That's the way I can describe it of, I didn't know what the hell was going on, but I knew it wasn't normal. I began staying home from school, I couldn't get up a lot of days. Then it just, I was sinking into something. I didn't know what it was. My parents didn't know, but this is when self-harm became a big thing in my life as far as an eating disorder, as far as other self-harm techniques.
Not techniques, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I know exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, but, And even, you know, a part of self-harm is just completely hating yourself, right? And so that's how I felt. In my book, I talk a lot about the fact about like, there's this one short story narrative poem about, it's called Sink. And it's about the fact that when I was feeling this way, I would come home every day and then I would go to the bathroom and I would, everything was quiet.
I could hear like my family on the outside, but I would sink into the bath. Path and just so I could be quiet in my head, but I had to come back up again and like hit the surface. So it was very confusing and it started to just, you know, boom, boom, boom. You know, I got into college. I went to college, made tons of friends that I'm still friends with today. day. And again, I was in at a school in Boston. I was an athlete, but things again, were just not clicking.
I don't want to say that I had like an addiction. I think I partied alongside much as much as everyone else, you know, so I don't want to say necessarily, because I don't have addiction problems, thankfully, but I, it was not good for me. It was also, it was suppressing something. And so man, sophomore, I came back and forth to college dropping in and out. I mean, the story can get long.
So I'm going to try to get right to the issue was that sophomore year, when I had gone back, things completely fell apart. I couldn't get out of bed. And to be honest with you. It's only been in the last couple of years that my friends have told me certain incidents that I literally do not remember. I had a breakdown. I guess I went to a therapist on campus. Let's, I'm doing quotation marks. Gotcha.
Therapist. And when I told her what was going on, she scared me in the sense of she went, I'm going to call your parents and kind of said, you need to be out of school. Well, that freaked me out. And so I think, I guess I had like a breakdown. I went outside, I was crying and, and all of these little things I didn't know about and basically long story short or longer. My mom and brother showed up one day outside of my dorm. My friends were there. They were all crying.
I didn't say a word. I didn't know what the hell was going on. My mom put my stuff in the back and she said, you just get in the seat. Sorry, my friends dropped me off at a hotel. And I didn't even, I just walked in. I saw my brother there and I just went, okay. They took Took me back home and I was not doing well. And basically, you know, kind of was abruptly when I went to a regular medical facility, there was a very untrained therapist, a doctor, and they actually took me involuntarily.
I woke up in handcuffs, was sedated, and they took me in a cop car to a mental hospital, which it was the biggest blessing of my life because it's what led to where I am. I saw the injustices, but, um, I was there and that's where I got my diagnosis, which was shocking, but that's, that was that shocking.
Mental hospital that time was meant to happen and it's the like most spiritual way of like I can say of like that was meant to happen to me even though it was horrifying at the same time that's where I got my diagnosis of bipolar too wow yeah I love that you brought up the the thing about the hospital because I think and I want to honor everyone's experience whether you know it be horrible or whatever. And I just want to remind everybody as we do, please take care of yourself.
We talk about hard things. If you need to take breaks, if you need to take breaths, if this one is not for you, please do. Cause I want to get into, you know, just, I don't think we talk enough about how that actually felt like. And so I love that you said that because sometimes that saves lives, right? There isn't, sometimes there's no other option, right?
If you're going to find out and, and as that sounds terrifying, and I'm so sorry it had to happen that way, but your perspective is really, is really beautiful and powerful because I want to encourage people that if that's your only choice, like if, if you are, you know, a harm to yourself or others, or you cannot get the help you need it there's no shame in in going to the hospital getting admitted.
People probably had talked about this ad nauseum but in canada there isn't an in-between and it's a year and a half to get into a psychiatrist so basically even though i wasn't at complete.
Like they weren't they were like you're not sick enough to to go to the psych ward which i actually was like offended i was like i'm not even good enough which is like what the hell but i got to go to this side like this um voluntary little treatment center for them to fit yeah and i knew the psychiatrist there was good and i knew that was a way to talk to a psychiatrist but our only option here is to go to emergency and then there's always a fear of not knowing if you're going to get admitted.
But I tell people here in Canada, like, it's your only option, then, you know, like, I could have waited another year and a half, or maybe I wouldn't be here. Right, exactly. Oh, yeah. If you're if you're having 100%, if you're at a point where you're having thoughts of harming yourself to the extent that you would no longer be here, suicidal Societal thoughts. Okay. Yeah. I never know the correct terms. I, you know, it's society a little over the top with how to say it, but yeah.
Is go right there, you know, go right there then. Yeah. Because that, that's a whole other thing of the hospitals and the way that they're structured right now here. But of course, right now, like not unfortunately, but I hope we have more resources, but if you're ever having those kinds of thoughts, you just drive yourself there to get dropped off. Yeah. Please, please tell someone. And I, I always think of, you know, how it's shown in, in society.
There's this one way of looking suicidal. And I had been introduced to this site, and I would have told you 100% that I wasn't like that. And that I didn't have those until I heard of this concept of, you know, suicidal ideation or having, I didn't have a plan, but I 100% wanted to go to sleep until I felt better. And if I didn't feel better, I just wanted to stay asleep. And that is, I thought everybody would feel that way. But apparently, apparently, not. I guess not.
Yeah, I know. You're like, ask people, do you? Hey, have you guys ever had this? And they're like, no. And you're like, okay, nevermind. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, and that must have been also hard for your family, right? And sometimes we, you know, families need to do those things to save us as well. So I love the way you talk about the both and, right? The terrible and beautiful. Yeah, I would love to hear a little bit about what, so you were brought because of more of a depression.
Like that's where you were at when you went to the hospital. Yeah. So my experience was, I basically said that I was feeling very mentally unwell. I was, I was with my mother at the time and actually a little interesting, real quick, short story that shows you the irony of it is that in the waiting room, This, this was, you know, a very small city in the waiting room.
Actually, there was a girl that knew me of me at, from the high school, because there were like pictures of me, like in a glass thing, because I had like, as an athlete and she was like, Oh, are you Hannah? And like bloom. And she, and, and it was crazy. Cause she saw it. I was, you know, completely like, you know, just not perfect, but that never, nothing would be wrong. And her dad began to notice that maybe I was there not because I was physically ill.
And it, anyway, so that was like a little lobby moment that was very weird and how people from the outside. Anyway, what I had gone there was I wasn't feeling mentally well, of course my mom didn't know what to do, but we were under the impression that I was going to be able to get the resources or go to more of a private clinic where I would have more control.
However, one of the problems with the system is they do tend to throw people into the mental hospital when, and, and involuntarily when it might not, not that I don't want to say it might not be necessary, necessary but it's a big step I mean here's the bottom line a judge had to give a court order I was kind of arrested my goodness yeah that's what people don't know about involuntarily being committed like I don't have it on my record but I do I mean I cannot get a gun like even if I wanted to.
I don't. But the fact is, it's a first right for Americans, not me, because of that. So going in, being involuntarily committed is a huge thing, and they kind of didn't know what to do. And yeah, I think I honestly, depressive, I was just exhausted. I was just exhausted and depleted. In many ways, I understand why I went. But I went to a hospital that was not all that, which is fine. However, it was the way in which it was done that no person, nobody should ever have to experience.
I mean, you're 19 years old. You wake up in handcuffs. I actually woke up and I thought I killed someone. Oh, friend. No, no. I mean, yeah, nobody. That's horrible. And yeah. Okay. okay, could there not be any other intervention to someone who's mentally unwell? And then you're going to put them through an actual traumatic experience to get better? Like, how does that Right. Right. And that's, that's why there has to be this.
Again, it's just another part of my story that like, I'm trying to move like justice towards because come on, like nobody, nobody should have to be taken in that manner. I mean, come on. Yeah, I was 19. I was a teenager. And so it's, it's, it's, you know, making the people aware of, of you don't, I think people have this idea that you have to be completely suicidal or you have to have heard somebody to be put in a mental hospital when that isn't necessarily true all the time.
However, again, Again, it is sometimes the only option. So, yeah, it's like the worst, like, you know, two worst things. And right. And I did not know that that I like pictured it like, you know, the show Intervention where they all talk to you and then like, maybe I'm naive that way. I didn't know. No, you're not naive. People don't say it. It's very under, there's a very quiet thing.
Even I've had this conversations with other activists that like in the community that have businesses and like all of these big things, they've lived their life around activism. We've had the discussion about, it's a tricky line. Now I'm willing to push the line, but it's a tricky line because you're kind of calling out a system, right? Right. But that, no, no, it's not like intervention.
I mean, I, I asked, I was told that I, I had, I did not know that I had already been taken out of the custody. I was in the custody of the state. I, they had gotten a judge's order to put me under the custody of the state. So I know people listening are like, what the hell is that? Basically, that's what they do with somebody who's been convicted of a crime. I was 19. They didn't have the right. I'm in the custody of myself.
They got the state to take custody of me, meaning you can do whatever you want. No lawyer could come in. My parents couldn't stop it. It's like you committed a crime. It's like, wow. And that just shows you, gives that message of what people think about people that live with me. Gosh, right. Like that we're, we're criminals. Right. And then it's like, how could you not? How could you not be like a criminal? I know. I know how it's treated. Like surely there are, and I'm hoping that it's coming.
More things are coming. I am actually curious about your thoughts on the, we just got in Canada and I know you all got it before us, but the 988, what do you think about that? And what do you, I don't know anybody that's, yeah, I'm curious about what you think about it. Okay. Well, this will be an interesting conversation because I actually want to hear what you think I'm going to give a little bit of a different side of it. I do want to hear. Of course, I think it's fantastic.
I think it's wonderful. And first, before anything, I applaud the people that work, the advocates that work to get that, because it's easy for me to give my opinion. These people work. They actually change something like huge, right? So I want to applaud them. And of course, it's easier. It's more accessible. It's memorable and it is definitely going to save lives.
Okay. So I want to make that clear. However, in my time in advocacy, being on the ground, talking to tens of thousands of families, people. Suicide, all of that, getting to know it and just listening to those stories. We never look at the underlying problem of how, where do we put the money though toward getting people not to that point? Because here's the truth that a lot of people don't want to say.
A lot of people that are going and at that mentality that their life no longer matters and they want to stop the pain majority unfortunately follow through they don't aren't even in the mindset of calling for help because they don't want it yeah don't want it They're ready. They're, they're, they're ready. And so they don't think they deserve it because our brains serve it. They're in a blackout mode.
And, you know, let's put it this way. I've talked to thousands of people who have been suicidal. Some people, I mean, ridiculous amount, but I've talked to families of those people who have lost suicide. I've also talked to people who have tried and it backfire. Yeah. And the thing that I have learned from those stories just was like. That I want to let me think, actually, you know what, for editing purposes, because I don't want to distract like this part.
I was thinking something and then I'm like, well, if I can't articulate it well, then I won't. But here I'll get back to it that I think it's great. But I think in society we have a problem of change. Yeah. Changing the number. Yeah. How do we get the people to even press the buttons? You know, the bottom line is suicide is not going down as much as people want to believe. It's not. I look at the statistics constantly. I'm always researching. Yeah. We're not putting the money toward.
I don't want to get I want to get people, of course, always having that line established for a thing. But it's a you know when a person gets to that point and we're relying on a number to save their life yeah that's a big responsibility that I don't think any number any easy I think if you could press one number it's still not acknowledging the underlying issue yep and it's like. If we could save ourselves, then do you know what I mean? It's like putting the onus on saving the cell.
So the only thing that I'm hopeful about, and I don't know much. I know you should be hopeful. It's fantastic. I want to hear. Yeah. I hope, but I don't know. But I like what you said, like the amount of money that probably went into that. Like we're not thinking about, about allocating, right? Right. We have this number, but then you're telling me I can't get into a psychiatrist for a year and a half. Why are we not fixing that?
Right. Well, I hear you. My hope is that it will be like, can other people call like so that the you know what my what I've heard is that other like maybe other people can call so that the you don't have to call 911.
And the police that don't have mental health first aid training that they end up arresting or demonizing these people that actually could be taught you know yes on a psychotic break and actually need help and not to just not criminals right right right i don't know if that's a thing well i don't is that what the 933 i think it's the i think it's just a hotline okay that's good to know because it's brand new in Canada. So I didn't know that much about it, but I feel really strongly.
And I want to take it like just to know about mental health first aid and how much are police or are, or even like, you know, doctors and nurses. I mean, I still go to my doctor. He's really great at a lot of things. He put back my diagnosis probably like five years.
Cause I went in with it all and he would just said, Nope, that's not you. And so I. You're right like money going into that train like if cops are what are showing up to these you know these different episodes or someone that's clearly in mental distress and not hurting anybody but needs help and they're showing up with fair enough they've only been trained like anyways i want to hear more story but i was so curious no and and on that because one area i I study is police,
like in the policing of it. And so when like Black Lives Obviously Matters movement happened, which I know everybody has different opinions, but I'm not even talking about that aspect of it. The thing about it was, is I actually created a list and took a list off of the database that had every incident of individuals that had had a fatality within interaction with the cops. And I was able to categorize it black, white, ages, girls, and women.
And to be honest with you, actually, it's not what you would think. The statistics go down majorly if you have a mental illness, whether you're white or black, even if you're a female, right? Right. Like I, I want to be careful with the statistic, but when I was doing it, it was like one in four women with mental illness have a fatal interaction. But here's the thing with black men, the highest sub group, you have the general black men, African-American men who have the, their violence.
So, you know, the, the general umbrella, the first group that is gets the most is black African-American men with mental illness. It's one in two and two. So when I looked at the Black Lives Matters list because I had studied like a crazy person, all of these names. I remember I was at the grocery store and I saw the names, you know, that shirts I'm talking about, right?
With all the, and I remember tracing my finger and I was knowing one, two, three, four, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, up to 20. And it's because all 20 of those people, I know for a fact they had mental illness. It was a mental breakdown that happened. It was like 20% of that. So it goes back to your point of like the policing, that's a pretty high statistic.
That's a pretty high statistic. So as it goes to the hotlines and all of that, I think we also have to think about where are we putting the funds here? Where are we putting people, a police need to be trained more than anything. Look, if they learn how to deal with people with a mental breakdown, they're going to have more of an open mind when it comes to minorities, period. Right. It will open you up. You'll have to deal with people who are of a minority and, and white people.
I don't want to kick them out of the conversation because they have mental breakdowns. They also get killed as well when they have mental illness. So it goes back to, I like always giving just a different idea when you ask a 933, because of course, number one, if you're ever in need of help, you call the number, you never doubt yourself. I'm just giving another side of it. Yeah, no. And that's why I was so curious, because I know that you understand and look at these things so differently.
And I think that it just comments on and trickles down and affects all of us that have, especially when I remember when I when I heard the term like the bipolar is a serious or what was severe that word severe mental illness and there was a group right and I was just like nobody wants that yeah right I was like can we come up with with better language please somebody and I could go all off on the language thing
oh my goodness I feel like I want to talk to you forever I want to go back to that time. And I want to, for, for people that, so you were diagnosed, I want to go back into that time in the, in, if you're willing, in the mental hospital and your experience there and your experience getting diagnosed, because one of the biggest questions that, uh, that people ask of other people and are really interested in the podcast is how did they get the diagnosis, right?
And what that looked like. And then what it was like for you after, because sometimes it seems like going to be this magic fix. Oh, yeah. Or it's going to ruin your life. And so I would love for you to talk to. Oh, yeah. That. Yes. Yes. Okay. So I'm like a storyteller. So I'll frame it in the like, that whole when I was diagnosed, I remember the doctors called me in and I was sitting at a table with all of them. And I had been in the hospital for a couple of days.
And the main doctor said to me, like, after all of these different sessions, we concluded that you definitely have bipolar two disorder. And the first words that came, I, I, I swear, I think it was even before he finished saying the diagnosis. He, I said, no, no, no, I don't. And he was like, Hannah, we've done a lot of like, I know this might be, and I just kept shaking. And I said, no, that's not true.
And I remember when they let me out, I went back to the bathroom and I looked at myself in the mirror and it was like I was looking for... I thought I was delusional because I had known what I knew about mental illness, the stigma that I had was I thought people with bipolar disorder were crazy monsters that if you were in a room with them alone and you pissed them off, they were going to kill you. Okay. That's honestly what at that time I thought.
So I'm looking and I know I'm empathetic. I know that I'm kind. These These are things in my heart that I know for sure about me. I would never harm a fly. You know, of course I defend myself, but I would. And so I'm looking and I'm like, there's no way. There's no way that could be me. I don't fit that image. So it took a long time for me to accept it. Didn't really accept it in the hospital. I mean, you're in a hospital, so you're just going with it.
But I think the big thing is when I came out. Wow. Yeah. It was a major process that I knew I had, you know, and that gets into another area, but feeling this sense of almost inspiration because I felt like there was a fire ignited. My purpose slowly started developing, but as far as me really accepting bipolar going on and off medications, that, that took, that took a very long time. I remember it for everybody out there. And I think you can probably also speak
to this because I don't want people to get nervous. Oh, shoot. I get a diagnosis. Is that going to be my journey? You've got to remember there was nothing on social media about this at this time. Like when I'm telling you the resources and the advocacy that's online right now, it's unbelievable. There were not blogs. There were maybe one or two, and I can name those people. I know them. I'm friends with them that wrote that. So the thing is, is that.
There was nothing there. And so what do you hold on to? I didn't know who to look at. That's why I started reading about Marilyn Monroe and Carrie Fisher and them because they were celebrities that were decently, you know, I wrote an article about Marilyn Monroe because she borderline had schizophrenia pretty much. And, and that's how I began to like actually kind of empower myself was seeing successful people with it and eventually accepted it. But that came with empowerment.
That came with empowerment. That came with research. That came with me stepping into an area where I became more of like absorbing knowledge, seeing where stigma came from, and then finally being able to accept my diagnosis. But no way, no way. I was like, this is a lie. Those those doctors are crackpots. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. I, because I was diagnosed so late in life, like I was 32, right. I was desperate for, I had the both end.
I was desperate for an answer and it was super freeing to finally, they say like, you know, to me, it was like, this is not a personality flaw. You are not, you know, all of this, this is who you are. And then And also, I don't want to be that I couldn't find anybody online, that like you said, it was all portrayed as this horrible, you know, criminal or whatever. And I was like, Well, I have two young kids. And I actually think I'm a fairly decent mom. And I miss that.
But I, you know, I have and of course, bipolar two is way less known as well. Right? Yes. That's what my doctor said to me, like, you wouldn't be a mom or have a degree if you had bipolar disorder. And I was like, Oh, okay, well, yeah. And then it must just be my fault. Right, right. I must be flawed. Right. Person as a human. Yeah. Fulfilling. feeling. It is. It really is. And I love and I applaud you for being out there. And I'm curious about what you think about this.
It's just kind of a half-formed thought I have, but I've been thinking lately, like I am so like you, not as long, but immersed in, I'm talking to advocates all the time. I'm talking about bipolar in line. I'm like, oh, it's getting normalized. It's It's getting... But I have a circle, right? And then sometimes I go out into, you know, what I call like the outside world. Yes, yes. And I think we're so far ahead. And then... It, that makes me realize that a lot, like we're not, we are. Yeah.
You're not crazy for thinking that we're not, we're not, we're, we're not. I'm, I'm very open about the fact, like when I see things on TV that are like mental health, you know, Michael Phelps is swimming in a pool and, and people think because celebrities are talking about it now, mental health, that is not true. That is unfortunately, yeah, are we in a different place? Yeah. But I'll tell you that we promote the idea that we're in a much better place.
I know, I know exactly. It doesn't matter how long you've been in it. You can be in it for two days and see the way that people still perceive it. Yes, it has gotten better. Yeah. Better from what? Better from people thinking every person, and I guess with bipolar is a mass murderer. So we're not at like, you're talking about coming from the one of the most, if not the most stigmatized, unfairly group of individuals, because that is exactly what we are.
Yeah, yeah. And I think about so I just asked this question on Instagram about sharing and like sharing your diagnosis. And also what, you know, do you feel comfortable sharing? And what, you know, what does stigma look like to you? Kind of big questions. And I could like, I, I solved at the answers. I was expecting people to, you know, to have hard things, but some people that literally felt completely muzzled because they would lose their jobs.
They would. And I knew these things to be true, but just the fact that they have zero freedom to feel like they even could tell someone tell if they wanted to and I was just like because I recognize also that you know that I even within that community like I have a lot of privilege you know like I'm a a white woman middle class like people yeah listen listen right yeah a little bit of an ear I mean I'm still no but I was just I was just heartbroken And I was just thinking about,
it just seems like such an uphill battle. And I'm curious about what kinds of things, and this is going to be a big question, so tell me if it's too much, but what kinds of things do you think needs to happen on the ground, right? And we talked a bit about systems already, to help with this. Because I say things like sharing our stories, even if it's to one person. But if it's not safe, you can't share your story. So you can't. So then...
It's all on the advocates. Like I am a teacher on call, so I don't have a home. Oh, okay. So I don't have to tell, like, I don't have to tell anyone, but I don't have to tell a principal. I don't have to talk about it a lot at work, right? Until I have to really think about it. If I tell someone that I have a podcast, because the title pretty much says it all.
And we've come far in talking about mental health and we talk about depression and anxiety, but what not mental illness though no and we talk we don't talk about when it's messy it's like we want to be like oh when you're sad or don't want to say when you're in psychosis when you can't brush your teeth when you're so high i know people that are like church ladies with like these deep values or and then you hear that they have a full-on manic episode and maybe
get the hypersexuality which is a symptom right yes actual symptom and i'm totally going off But I know some things that you think that, you know, just that, that we could do. And I tend to do this, and I'm slightly hypomanic right now. So I start to think about it's all overwhelming. And like, it's a drop in the ocean, what I'm doing doesn't even matter. And I know all these things not to be true. And I can reframe them.
But I just sometimes feel overwhelmed. And I'm wondering, It is overwhelming. Yeah. One, do you feel overwhelmed working in all of that? And two, what are some things that we can do, whether it be folks with bipolar, but there's too much onus on that. What can we do people that don't have bipolar and, you know, how do we get that attention and how do we get people that love someone with bipolar, like advocate for us? Yes. Oh, I love this. Am I making sense?
Oh, actually, I love this question. And there's, there's so many things to dive into with it. I think it's an awesome question that I actually really want to explore. So like, as far as overwhelm, actually, right now, I'm definitely experiencing overwhelm. I called my mom this morning. I'm like, I got the book out and stuff, but I have to get back to activism.
It's too much. And I'm definitely overwhelmed with the activism side of it in the sense of what I am trying to do more so of writing as a journalist and exposing different things that there's so many problems that it's become overwhelming. So that area right now, I feel a lot of overwhelm. I get nervous. Am I going to be able to do this? But again, these are thoughts you're aware of. Okay.
As far as on the ground and everything, I mean, this is what I'm doing now of where I think we are completely missing it. The, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, there is a hierarchy in the mental health system and psychologists and doctors who are wonderful and we need them and, and therapists, they're fantastic, but historically they have been the ones on top. They're the ones that are speaking at the table.
They're the ones that are getting invited on news things to talk about what we do with mental illness in a more professional way, right? When people with mental illness get asked to do anything. It's, it's like in the media world of like, not just like with, obviously we're going to talk about like bipolar and sharing our stories here, but when they get invited for mental health awareness month, it's all about sharing your story.
You're like a guinea pig, not a guinea pig, but you're like an object that just, you're so brave, you know, for telling Telling your story. And it's like a pat on the head. And I'm thinking to myself, we have so much more to say, but people don't want us to say it. Okay. They don't. And what I'm getting to is, first of all, the reason I wrote my, my book has so many different chapters. It talks about so many different themes. It talks about love. It talks about politics.
It talks about sensuality and all of that and mending and madness and everything. And the reason why I did that, and a lot of publishers said, you've got to take the things out, the poetry and essays and stories about mental illness out and save that for another book. And I said, no. And that's why I didn't go with a publishing company because I said, I want the general public to read this book and be confronted with.
Mental illness, like being and reading the poetry and hopefully letting it spark curiosity. Because what needs to be done, what I am hoping, what I've been gearing up for for 10 years that I'm nervous about, that I've been working with different groups on, is people have to understand on the ground the history of mental illness and the injustices that have occurred and occur today. Today because when you, we've had always the finger pointed at us. We've been the platform for blame.
Where is there room for us to empower ourselves? Where is there room? I mean, you're still not seeing, we're treated like incapable individuals. You know, a lot of these grassroots organizations, they're great, but they were started by caretakers. They were not started by people with mental illness. So we've kind of always been not having our own voice to be like, y'all want to think we're crazy?
Cool. But we're moving ahead because there's things going on and being very powerful in the leaders of the movement. Because the bottom line is when people begin to hear what has been done historically to the time being, they will have to acknowledge it. They will have to listen to me. They will have to, because now you're pointing the finger at the institution and they're going to have to speak to it.
And what, if I'm giving examples and stuff like that, I'll, and, and, and why understanding it, what I, the next thing I'm trying to create is like not a textbook, but an empowerment way of being able to easily in an engaging and fascinating way, get people with mental illness to understand. understand the history. When you understand the history, you will understand that you have been told a lie about yourself because when, so like the way I explain it,
it, well, here's what we'll go into. Let me give you an example. Okay. Yeah. Okay. One of the biggest parts of history that, again, this is fascinating and very tragic. In 1247, again, there's a poem about it. It's called Bedlam in my book. 1247, Bedlam Hospital in England, one of the first to begin basically to have people with mental illness come there. I'm getting all this information from a book that we can source.
It's called Bedlam and the Mental Health America Crisis. It's unbelievable. believable. They started to bring people in. Now, this is 1247, okay, with mental illness. To fund the city of Bedlam, because it was in a town, some people actually, maybe it's Bethlehem, but they call it both. To fund the nurses, to fund the city, the mental Bedlam became an attraction site. And you could pay a fee people in the town to see and go through and watch the people chained below.
And this is serious. This is a fact. This is not a conspiracy. This is not, again, we can source it. And there are these historians that talk about how the fact that people were had fetishes for madness and they would pay a fee to look at the people with mental illness. Okay. So why is that important? Well, because if you learn that as a person with mental illness, you're like, wait, I'm insane.
You're calling me insane. We're like, we're kind It's kind of like a culture because we've been outcasted so much that I call it our history. You're empowered when you hear that because you're starting to say to yourself. Oh, wait a minute. We, this is not what I've been told is not true. This is very, this has been calculated.
Stigma has been structured, you know, and, and starting there that we have literally been used as attractions in the past where people in society looked at us and paid fees to watch us in cages. Okay, so then you start to say, maybe you're insane. Like the conversation flips and it's like, oh, it's reflecting back on them.
And then the bottom line is where it leads up to right now is that I realized like, here's the thing, when someone's hiding, when someone lies to you, the question you always have to ask is why? And the reason why is because they're hiding something. We have been lied to about our identity, the label that we wear. It has been completely structured to keep us down in many ways.
Well, when you're a person with bipolar on the ground and you learn that you will become more empowered, it will ignite a fire in you. When I expose things about the fact that kids as young as seven years old are being abused and sexually assaulted. Again, this is a fact. These are not conspiracies. We can source this in hospitals. I mean, yesterday a psychiatrist in Virginia got off.
He sexually assaulted all of these girls, but there was something in the evidence and it got to, he was found not guilty. So like all of these things you're going to begin to see break that break that you're going to become impassioned to be the leader of a movement that only we can be the leaders because we have to speak up for our people. And when we talk about it like that, when we talk about the injustices, when we refer to it as our culture, because it is a culture of, of, of all of that.
That's what needs to be done because empowerment is the first route to everything else. We need to be invited to the table. I don't want to share my story as much as I want to share the fact that hospital got shut down recently because they found so many instances of assault that the staff burned the records and smashed the videotapes.
That's what I want to talk about. about and that alone is going to build more of a community and it's going to empower individuals to say okay i'm not crazy and we're going to go after this together we've got to take control back into our own hands and i know that was like a huge like way of explaining it but if you're asking what needs to be done that is what needs to be done we can get all day on stages and tell our story or we can get
there and really empower the people and say, look, forget about the stigma, forget about it. Okay. Let's talk about our history. Let's learn this. You're going to see that it's a lie. You're going to be empowered to go after it and to stick up. The bottom line is stigma is a short sugar-coated word for discrimination. Yeah. When people get on me, people will get on me about romanticizing mental illness. I do in many ways. The reason why I don't have a problem with it at all.
And the answer I always have for people is you can get a job. If people think you're creative, even if you're not, I'm just trying to get people in the door. You're not going to get a job if they think you're a mass shooter. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I don't know. No, you speak my language. No, that's nobody. It. It's such a hard line too, because it depends, it goes back to what we were talking about, like the faces or the people out there.
It depends also how you're doing, how much you can be involved in that, right? And so it's like, you have to be, try to keep yourself well. And that's why I think that there's so many lanes. And I love that, you know, you know that this is your lane. But also, I love how you're inviting those of us that have the capacity to come along with that. I love that. We all play our own roles. That's what I say. And the advocacy, I mean, there's about like, I call them a crew of like eight of us.
We've known each other for 10 years of advocates because we were the first ones out to talk about mental illness. It's kind of funny when we're all together. But anyway, the reason why I'm saying it, I think a lot of us is seen as our development in whatever we're doing. Every single advocate, including yourself, we are all playing a different role. Some of that is sharing story.
I personally am not as passionate as just sharing my story now, but that's nothing to do except we're all playing our different roles that all make the same impact that will all bring us up together. We're all doing the same thing, saying the same things, answering the questions the same way.
We're not going to get far. are yeah we're gonna people will people will actually listen because i think about how could i use my platform that will get us somewhere that people can feel like they could even tell like some people feel like they can't even tell a friend let alone a boss right it's just you talk about the you know how how it was treated and how people it was like something to watch something that's interesting or or right or dramatic or something and we can see
that even today like in the movies that are being made every time every time there's a show i can see the build up and i'm like oh there goes the really eccentric mother that loves to paint that runs off with a dude and is horrible to her children. I'm like, can I tell you, I almost think I know what show you're talking about, right? You it's, it's. Don't get me started. What's interesting though, is people are like, I, I, you know, I call it.
And when I say madness, it's because I try to take these terms and flip them of saying, so that's why madness is a part of like what I'm doing. But the thing is, is people are addicted to it. Look, we love shows like euphoria for, for 13 reasons why. So when people have this whole thing about, oh, mental illness is this. I'm like, historically, people have been obsessed with mental illness and this idea of madness and eccentricity or eccentricity, however you develop it,
they have in society just doesn't want to admit that. Yeah, that's so true. That is really, really true. That is really powerful. And I love what you said, because I'd love to talk about the book more.
I love what you said about how you wouldn't take out those parts and it's true it's like it has to be separate because we can't be seen as a whole person and guess who's buying the books is the one of us that like that us that already live with bipolar disorder and then and then it's like right want others others like i want other people to hear it like people are like oh i remember even a a friend and i love her but i remember i was so
disheartened and we talked about it and it's fine if you're listening i love you but was saying well you know i would love to listen to your podcast i don't have bipolar disorder and i'm like then you 100% needs to listen to the podcast right like to hear the stories and it's a it's a hard line i'm like i want to share stories because that's what i'm passionate about right but also So I want, people don't see that as education.
People don't see that. Like you said, the hierarchy of say, psychiatry, they'll go straight to, you know, academia. Oh, they want the psychologist's new book, like out there, you know, I'm not talking about a specific one. I'm talking about like most of them. That's the books, but yeah. Yeah. And it's not that they're not important, but it's like pass the mic. That's the biggest thing. Like when you talk about what needs to be done on the ground, it's like pass the mic.
The only thing is they ain't going to pass it unless we start going after them. Yeah. And taking, and if you're well, and if, oh, you got me all excited. Like sometimes that voice that lies to me, that is bipolar disorder. It tells me that I'm, you know, I, I take up too much space. And in fact, I, it is okay to demand space for other people, you know, for our people. Like if I am well enough to do this and I'm, I'm a naturally loud person, I'm, I'm going to do that.
And I think that I've been afraid to say those things. So this has been a aha moment for me. And I thank you. Oh, don't ever look what other people want to perceive about what you're doing. That's their problem. And also it's trying to pull you and put you down again. No, I don't, I don't even, whatever people I'll take up as much space as I possibly can, because I know what direction I'm going in. I know I'm confident in it and there's space for everybody, but I'm not going
to diminish what I'm trying to do to appease people. I don't even know. Yeah. Well, and sometimes I think that we, we, and I love that you're in that space, but I think that in some of the space with the small, like smaller advocacy, it's like, yeah, what is it? You want to be palatable.
What's pat can you can you so you want to be i feel like sometimes i i need to ride the line that i'm i don't know like that trying to think about how i say like i don't want to i think that sometimes if i'm my whole big self and my whole like you know awesome beautiful messy eccentric self that I'm going to play into. A lot of people just put me in that, oh, well, she's bipolar. Like that's her hypomania speaking, or she's like, don't take me seriously.
So I'm like, I feel like I have to be careful, right. To be, you know what I mean? Not show and tell like some of the really gritty things. And that's what I try and focus on. Like a lot of the gritty things about bipolar disorder are uncomfortable for people. Think about how uncomfortable it is for us. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And yeah, exactly. And, and what, you know, it's never, what did not look, people have the right to feel uncomfortable.
People have the right to be upset. They have the right to be mad. We have the right. To keep doing what we want to do. We have the right to share our story. We have the right to help other people. Like people are allowed to think that we are also allowed to continue what we're doing and speak with what we believe will be the change. So, you know, that's how I think as you're doing always be transparent. I mean, you see me, I, I don't, I'm, I'm pretty, you know, transparent.
I mean, some people, especially people like in the mental, I mean, there's some therapists and psychologists that are not happy with me about some of the things that have come up, but I don't, I don't care for them. I'm not fighting for them. I'm fighting for people with mental illness. And so that's why. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and that's saving. You're doing incredible. This is great.
You're not taking up enough space and always transparent. People want to hear your voice and people want to hear what you have to say regardless. It's a truth. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I, yeah, I, I have new energy. I can feel it inside. Oh, yeah. Exciting. Sometimes people see people like us, and especially people, you know, like you that can just speak so in like, so give so much empowerment.
Sometimes they look at us and think, well, I could never be like that. Or I'm, I'm not someone. Do you know what I mean? Like they put it in a different, a different category. And so I would love, and then they think, oh, well, then it feeds into the, well, they're better, right? Like they're not better as in better. They're like, like healed people use that word or, you know, people, all of those kinds of words. So I would love for, you know, I try to remind people that I struggle too.
And I'm curious, what, how does bipolar disorder show up in your everyday life? What a great question. You've got great questions that like are different from other things that I do. Okay. This is, this is, no, it's a great question. How does, geez, you know, it's interesting because it does show up. You know, it shows up in my life in very different ways, right? It can show up in my life, I think, every day consistently, you know, in an artistic way.
Okay, so, you know, creating wise every day, you know, writing or something like that. Yeah, pretty much on a daily basis, feeling those emotions, everything. How does it show up in my daily life? It's, you know, it's interesting because it's always there. So I never, I, sometimes I think I don't separate any more bipolar from me. And I know a lot of people say, no, it's a condition you're not defined by it.
You know, a lot of people say that something I don't really like, you know, you're not defined by your mental illness. And it's like, no, I'm not, but it's a such, it's a significant, extremely significant part of me. And by the way, if I'm not defined by it, then why is it you can't get a job if you're open about bipolar. So it does define you in many ways. Interesting. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a huge thing because again, the empowerment comes with saying, this is a part of me.
Like, okay, you can believe what you want, but that's here. So the thing is, is that it's a consistent flow. Bipolar shows up in my life. I mean, I even, okay. I'll tell you about this morning. This morning, I, I woke, I even questioned myself if I could do this podcast. Like, this is good for people able to know because you're seeing me now. You're like, what? This morning I woke up and I woke up and I said, oh no, it's, it's one of like those, I felt I've been feeling such intense anger.
And I've been, there's been a couple of things that have happened recently that have been kind of like triggers. And I woke up and I was angry. And I was like, I was just like slamming my hands These are things we're afraid to say because we're like, oh, does it look crazy? I've slammed my hands down on the thing, but I've learned a regulation technique. I felt like I was crawling out of my skin. I called my mom. I was crying. I'm a loser. I'm a failure.
I'm sinking into a rabbit hole like Allison 100. That was this morning, you know, but I, I now, cause I can regulate as long as I'm self-aware and I say there will be times, okay. Like I, I, I, I tossed a book recently, like we'll say at my wall. Now, a lot of people would say, oh, you can't do that. But I actually learned in therapy that sometimes, you know, you didn't do anything to yourself. Okay. You didn't do, you have to have a little bit of space to be like,
Oh, you know? And so as far as what you asked showing up daily in my life, I mean, the art shows up there, but I am on a rollercoaster and I am well medicated. However, I have accepted. It's a, it's a daily part of my life. I go in and out and tomorrow I don't know, but, but acceptance is huge. And my community and having art as a coping. So it shows up daily. You know, it shows up daily. My emotions are always there. They're always sneaking around.
And some days I can't even get out of bed. I'm so numb. I don't feel anything. And I'm dealing with a lot of these things right now. So people think they see. No, no, no. I, I, yeah.
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that, that I find that that stuff is so that truth so inspiring because showing up in spite of that and using our like i think we're afraid to talk about anger right in society especially as women right we're not supposed to be angry we're supposed to make everyone comfortable i think that a lot of. The anger fuels us to do beautiful things.
And or I, I end up being the I don't mean to take up leadership, but I end up being the leader and things like a lot of people feel something and I but I feel like that is fueled by the righteous anger by which actually behind my anger, if I, if i pull it apart and look behind it it's actually like deep deep sadness about the state of things or deep compassion for other people and it's like like you said like it's befriending so i've posted it's not you're not your
disorder right and i think that there's for me there's a couple ways to look at it i have to look at it a little bit outside of me to be able to be to be able to understand and accept that I have the illness. But I spent too many years trying to pull apart what is Shaylee? What is bipolar? What is and and it, it got me stuck, right? Whereas it's, I have an illness, but it's also a part of me.
And I need to work alongside it and with it. And that may not look like what I thought it was going to look like.
And but it it is what it is and when I could let that go I am in a healthier place because we have the double whammy you have the illness and then you have the covering up the illness and then it's just and then just not accepting it right like that whole idea I always say I try and be really gentle about it in the beginning but later like this idea of when am I going to get off my I'm very pro meds. When am I going to get off my meds or when this arriving thing, or when is it going to go away?
And I would be like, I thought that being better or managing meant that I wasn't going to experience things anymore. I wasn't, or I would be able to use all my coping mechanisms naturally come to me. And it is not so, but like you said, the acceptance as hard as it is, it. It was my step forward of, Oh, it's, it's, it's, it is the, it is literally what, you know, it's almost like a cloud opening to finally give you some sort of direction.
It's before meds, it's before everything you have to accept it to even like in many ways, like acceptance is such a huge part. And I think that it's awesome that you, you know, have posted and that's why conversations like this are so important. You're saying, I am not my disorder. And of course me sharing that side and you sharing that side. Oh yeah. Because what you're saying is exactly you. That is an absolute truth.
And, and people that are going to go, well, that doesn't work for me thinking that it's part of me. Isn't now they hear, okay, this is a way to look outside side of it. That's why having these conversations around it is important. And the different, because I totally see that perspective. And I think that it's awesome that you're open about that, because it's helping a lot of people. Yeah, yeah. And we're not a monolith, right?
And that's why it's interesting, because I get pushback from some of our people, like, because I like person first language, but some people are like, I don't care about that. I identify better if I say I am bipolar. And whereas I identify more with saying I have, but guess what? You know, we all live with it so we can pick. And I remember I really learned something from that because I kind of felt like everyone felt the same and I was like, oh, okay. Yeah.
Now I try to say for me, right? Because I don't want to speak for everyone. We're not a group. We're not a monolith. We're different people within that have similar symptoms that show up. So this has been so inspiring and challenging. And yes, I thank you. Thank you. I want to be best friends. So me to show up in your life somehow, before we end this, I do want to talk about your book.
I want to talk about it so much because I want everyone like to start the car and buy the book, press the button and buy the book because it is just, it, it is just beautiful. It's beautiful and powerful. And I would just love you to tell me just some things about your book. You started talking about the sections. You tell us, I don't even know where to ask because I just got, tell us about your book.
It's, uh, it's my baby. I started writing it when I was living in San Diego. I had a major breakdown. I thought I was never going to write again. And then one day I just picked up the pen and started writing for about three years. And it's, it's so special to To me, it is a collection of poetry, essays, quotes, stories that it basically it's about humanity and the human psyche, right?
And it's about healing. It starts out kind of with the journey of like depression, the journey of, of, of like sadness, low anxiety, and goes into mending and then acknowledges hugely mental illness. I mean, there are poems in there, like, I'll give you an example. There's one that represents like bipolars, like wearing the scarlet letter, you know, so taking all of these like like elements and breaking down stigma in a way that the general public can understand.
It's a book that is meant to build connection and curiosity because we only think of mental health in this one arena, but it has to do with everything. It has to do what's going on with our environment. It has to do with the people you're connecting on, politics, sensuality for women and womanhood, because that's a huge theme of the book is also empowerment of, of women and us being, and why is that like with mental health? Well, because it's connection to body and spirit.
And so there's literally things in this book that encompasses so much that you, I I'm hoping that people can find something that they really connect to. I mean, my search and exploring just different areas and, and people and, and essays about, you know, the homeless and things that I've seen. And so that's the book. It kind of takes you on a journey. It takes you on a journey. It's personal, but it's meant for readers to be in that position. It's done very well so far as something that's funny.
And it's not me bragging, even though I told you not to say that, but the irony of it is, is that after it came out within in like a few hours, it became the number one new release in psychology books. No way. That's so important. It's so important. And what people were laughing at was they told me like the second it goes in and out of being the new release. Cause it's, it's two weeks now, but it was for a while.
And people laughed at the fact that like the next book was by a psychologist and the books that were behind it. And I think the reason why I'm saying that is it kind of represents this need. This actually, you know, people like it's in psychology. I mean, could you imagine the psychologists that are like, what? You know what? Yeah. But anyway, the book is pretty it to me.
It's fascinates my heart. The art, the cover, again, is, in my opinion, it was, you know, done by my one of my closest friends. She's one of the most talented artists like Ash Walker. And then I do the line art within. in. And I tell you, you've never read poetry specifically in short, like stories about mental illness, like it, like it. And that's one of the most special sections. So it's called, Oh, mind, where have you gone today?
I came up with it randomly because I think our mind should just travel. And like, as the writer, I never want to limit myself in what I talk about, what I write about because bipolar helps me in connecting to people. So I went on a thing about that, but I just like really, it touches people. And again, empowers people with mental illness. I am telling you, it already has. Can you see all the pages that I've marked already? Oh my gosh. You're so sweet. Thank you. I'm so blessed. Oh yeah.
And I would love, is there one that you could read to us before we go? You're so sweet. There is one. It's, it's not, it's not as, I'm just going to read it because Because it's not one that necessarily has to have a poetic view. But I want to because it relates to a lot of what we've been discussing. Yeah. Okay. And then I'll show you the artwork. It's page 40. And it goes, revealing mental illness is confessing to a crime you never committed. It's pleading guilty when you are innocent.
And that for me, that was one of the most like special ones and that I wrote. And it's just like a judge type of gavel. It's a gavel. And for me that represents stigma. It feels like that. It feels like you're confessing to a crime, but you never committed one, but you feel the pressure to however you're innocent. And I hope that empowers people. I think it, I hope it makes makes people feel seen and that they're not alone in feeling like a criminal, a criminal.
Yes wow yes that's my baby it's my i sleep it's her baby and it needs to be in your home on your bedside table wherever so i will shout it from the rooftops go and get the book i will put all the links below and i want to put i went and followed the artist and go follow her as well we'll put the stuff all the information in the show notes and so friends as i said before we We have, I have subscriptions and we're going to record an extra little bit and we're
going to talk about self-love and I'm so excited. So go subscribe and go listen to that right away. But Hannah, I do really epic things. I'll really go full throttle. Totally, totally epic. You'll hear something ridiculous. It's going to be so good. I'm so pumped. Yeah, I just I don't I wish that I had better words to tell you how much your advocacy and you existing in the space and being one of my people means to me you are saving lives. You have literally also been a part of saving mine.
And so I just want to thank you so much for being here and being who you are. Oh, my gosh. That almost made me well up. I am so fascinated by you, what you're doing. And you are completely in this whole movement. And I'm just so honored to be here. And I'm so excited for you. You barely touched the horizon and all that you're going to do. I'm just so honored to be a part of this. Thank you. Yes. This is Bipolar. Thanks again for tuning in.
You can find video versions of This is Bipolar on our YouTube channel. We also have all our previous and soon to be future episodes of the podcast on Apple, Podbean, Spotify, and Google Play. We spend most of our time on Instagram at this.is.bipolar.
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you for being here with us let's get the word out let's share lived experiences so that we can change the ideas that people have about bipolar and help those of us that live with it feel less alone this. Music.