Music. Conversations with. My name is Shaylee Hoogendorn and I live with bipolar 2 disorder. Sharing with others is healing both individually and collectively. Sharing our stories will educate others, bring more understanding, shed more light and smash more stigma. Our voices need to be heard. Our stories aren't over yet. This is Bipolar. Hi everyone. Welcome back to This is Bipolar. As per usual, I'm beyond excited to be here with my guest and new bestie, Leah Charles-King.
Hello new bestie. How you doing? I'm doing good now that you're here. I'm so excited to get to know you and feel honored to be able to share your story. So if you all don't know Leah Charles King, you need to run, not walk, and go to her social media and follow her immediately. She is a TV presenter in the UK, and she is on this show called Place in the Sun, and it's super popular there. and I've seen some pictures on the Insta and it looks amazing.
I have to figure out where to watch it. She's been a presenter for like 25 years. I just found out she was in a girl band and we need to talk about that. And she's an ambassador for Bipolar UK. So basically, she does all the things and she's amazing. So my friends, I am here with Leah Charles-King.
Hi. Hi, everyone. Shaili, do you know what? I just want to say, first of all, thank you for having me it's such a pleasure to be here and i just want to give you your flowers because, For someone also living with bipolar, the platform that you've created and what you're doing for the bipolar community is incredible. You know, social media was not around when I started in this industry. And whilst it's great, it also scares me a bit, you know?
So the fact that when I see people like you who embraces it and can embrace it so fully and so wholeheartedly, I just think it's wonderful.
So keep fighting the good fight. Keep doing the amazing things that you're doing for us because we are paying attention we're loving your work so keep doing it and you inspire me as well so thank you for that oh thank you thank you so much I yeah it's just my greatest hope to just carve out spaces on the interwebs right that people can show up because I get messages that say you know you're probably not going to read this or I don't you hear this a lot.
But me too and I'm like every me too like is healing for me like I am yeah I mostly yeah I feel like I get more out of this than anything else I'm so yeah yeah I know people say that but I really mean it like I come to the internet to be understood half the time because there's as much as people accept me and I have amazing friends and stuff people that really get it like instant bond right yeah yeah it is it is particularly those who have you know that they've gone on
a journey our stories may be different but our journeys are probably similar right right in terms of the things that we've done and what I've found since coming out of what I call the bipolar closet because yeah I held it for many years I held my diagnosis in secret for many years and I'm sure we'll discuss that um but since sort of coming out and being loud and proud about it That has been the most healing and rewarding thing for me because it means that not only,
you know, is there representation as a black woman because mental illness in the black community is still very taboo. It's the fact that I've been able to make a tribe and find a tribe. And like you, I get many messages a day from people saying, thank you. I can understand. I heard you on a podcast. I've seen you on something. I read an article and just thank you for highlighting your story because now that's made me go and get help.
Now I showed my parents your story and now that's helped them to understand me more. I've told my doctor. So people are actually getting help now.
Yeah. Based upon people. mean you were doing and other people of course within the community but it blows my mind because all those years of hiding it because of the shame and stigma I felt and to be able to turn that pain into power that in turn heals me but heals other people or helps other people or makes them go my god I recognize myself in her I'm gonna go and get help I had people emailing me saying I saw you I heard your story I related so much I went
to the doctor and now you know I'm now been diagnosed those bipolar or I'm getting help or I'm getting support and you know what then it makes it worthwhile yeah because I'm a private person I could think of better things to do than just air and dirty laundry because again in my culture it's not a thing to do but I believe that representation matters and actually it should be very normal for all of us no matter what color or creed to be discussing mental health but
also mental illness because people don't mind talking about mental health but it's the mental illness part that is very taboo yes very dirty that people sort of bipolar you know mental illness people try and avoid those words but it is what it is guys shaley and i both have a mental illness it's called bipolar but you know what it doesn't hold us back it used to but we know that beast and now that beast doesn't hold it back and that could
be you as well if you are suffering in silence because i was one of those people that That suffered and suffered, suffered and suffered. And, you know, since grabbing that by the horns and like I said. Bipolar used to have me, but now I have it, you know, by the balls. He doesn't run me anymore. I run it, you know. And now I know what I'm fighting against. It makes the fight easier. I'm not saying that it's taken everything away and life is so great and I never have down days.
Of course, poor blimey, I'm always having down days. That probably will never go away. But the bottom line is my mindset and the way I handle this thing is very much different to when I was first diagnosed 13 years ago and was given this, this, what do they call it? Diagnosis. This label that I knew nothing about and sent along my merry way with a bag of tablets. Nobody educated me on what bipolar was, how it would affect me.
In fact, I believed that I was going to become evil. So I was looking at the clock any minute, waiting to wake up and become evil and become this, because that was the only benchmarks that I sort of had on it. And obviously that didn't happen, thank God. And I've had my moments. I mean, of course, I could be a moody cow I'm bipolar but I've learned not to be so much of a moody cow now I'm much better with that so yeah yeah yeah mic drop mic drop for you.
Sorry I get into it sometimes I'm like oh let's go it's my favorite thing and honestly the like you're talking about you know being a bipolar cow or not or moody cow which is hilarious but But knowing that a lot of that wasn't inherently you, right? Like I struggled with that. It was like a personality flaw. I'm not a good person. And it's really hard. Like if I was bleeding, you'd be like, oh my goodness, how can I help you?
But if I'm snarky or if I'm short with people or if I'm not able to pay attention, then I'm just a flawed human being. Yeah. Yeah. You would literally just be in an awkward B-I-T-C-H, you know, for some people. The empathy ends there, doesn't it, really, when it's an invisible condition. So for many years, just like you, growing up, it was like I was always this fun, outgoing person. Very funny, always liked to involve people, very inclusive.
But then there was this other side that I might say something or do something that I didn't know. And people are reacting negatively that she just said that. And I'm like, no, what did I do? What did I say? I didn't quite understand. Because people just didn't, they just believe that that's her personality. But actually it was bipolar. You know, bipolar makes us do very awkward things sometimes.
And particularly when it's undiagnosed and unnoticed. You can imagine in my manic phase, and anyone who's been through mania would know, the things we've done, some things I'll have to take to the grave.
Because it's that like yeah yeah you're just like hey we move we move yeah yeah when we know better we do better right yeah I want to as you were bringing that up I want to go back and I was listening to you on a podcast this morning you kept me company I was you know just just intrigued with your story and just we're similar and that we were diagnosed late and so I wanted to start back when you were a kid or back when you first started to notice that maybe
things, maybe you're feeling a little bit different and yeah, just what that felt like. And you know, what age did you kind of notice or did you notice? It's funny, actually, I was doing an interview earlier with a newspaper in the UK because obviously it's mental health awareness week.
And they asked me a similar question and you know it wasn't until recently I you remember things right because for me this first kicked off for me in mania I thought that's where it began sort of but actually when you go back and you start looking and going well how long is this piece of string into this actually because it started somewhere I guess I'll never be able to fully pinpoint you know I got bullied a lot in school from from after nursery I was bullied in every school I went
to I moved about and it affected me and actually by the end of school I was very affected I was either playing truancy or I had time off just because I was always unwell it was physically unwell now I believe I was mentally unwell I was probably depressed and anxious and that was my body showing up because the doctors never put a finger on what was wrong there used to be this thing that they used to back in the day glandular fever I don't know if
you've ever heard of it never growing up in school yeah growing up in school a lot of the girls I I went to an all-girls school. A lot of the girls had glandular fever. So they would say, oh, it's glandular fever. And I was like, but it's been going on for two years, you know, but okay, fine. When I look back... I was suffering some form of depression since then, for sure, which was triggered by various traumas, particularly the bullying.
I was bullied for many years and I became the bully to protect myself. And then I was bullied again. So we just went round in circles, you know, and it's awful for everyone involved. Do you know what I mean? For the people who bullied me, for the people I bullied, it's awful. Obviously, I'm older, wiser. I was never physical with anyone, but it doesn't matter.
The point of the matter is it was still horrible. for everyone yeah and that's just what I remember school I remember be excelling at school but then there was always this thing this underlying thing that made me hate it because of everything else and and I remember thinking just generally just thinking I've always felt very different always felt very different but I always thought it's because for me this sounds very bipolar what I'm about to say but I always thought well it's
because I'm a star from a young age I've I've been singing, performing, acting. And maybe that was the difference that I felt to my peers, right? I'm from inner city London. I'm a black kid growing up in London in a poor area. That's now really gentrified and very popular. Okay. The flat island for kids, yeah, is now worth multi, multi million pounds. Wow. But back then it was like, you know. So they gentrified. This is Notting Hill, West London, you know.
Okay, yeah. And it's absolutely beautiful. Yeah, now it's all beautiful and it's very posh. But in those days growing up, it was in a city of London. And so I thought, well, maybe, and then I moved to Wembley. Everyone knows famous Wembley where the stadium is. So, you know, to me, those were my environments, right? So I thought, well, maybe that's the difference I feel because maybe I'm a bit different than somebody else.
In my mind, I always knew that I was supposed to be somebody or something, but never knew, never knew what. Oh no. Have I cut out? Nope. No? All right, hold down. Just getting this. You're going to edit this. My thing is going to... Die? Yes. You've got the words. God. I'm glad you noticed. Has the sound changed now, Shaylee? For you? Has the sound changed? Testing, testing, testing. Has the sound changed? I might have to put on my...
Because I've had to take out that microphone. phone if i put in this airpod okay let's see how that sounds for you how's that airpod for you is that better can you hear me it sounds almost it sounds almost similar it sounds almost the same yeah all right fine we'll have to use that because i've had to take out the mic to plug in what's the thing oh yeah yeah don't worry about that and also this new ai on my podcast levels our voices, you have to tell me all about this yeah it's
brand new i barely know things yeah it doesn't make like you have to have some raw material to work with and it takes out your like the ums and ahs and like yeah and pauses i did just did it on my last one so i'm not as like concerned if it's but yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah no you sound great fine fine hey i'm gonna do this when i'm editing I'll see editing there. Now I know.
We're just doing the robot outtakes outtakes outtake bloopers that's hilarious that's hilarious I love you so much okay you were saying yeah yeah yeah so I just felt different is what I was saying you know I just felt different I wondered if it was because I was doing different things you know so by the time I was in I was a teenager I was in a girl band with my cousins I'm gonna take earrings is clashing on my ear pod so basically we were singing at a family party and we were
discovered by family friends who was a producer and then we ended up forming a girl band and many years i mean after lots of rehearsal and practicing and blah blah blah but a few years later we got signed a major deal with sony music and we had a major record deal and we lived that life for many years almost 10 years we were together as a band so what are you called what are you called tell us oh we were called which is the crappiest name in the world but we were called cliche now
it was in the 90s guys yeah spell things differently again and it was spelled k-l-e-s-h-a-y and the irony was it was supposed to be ironic because it's something that we're not we're not a typical girl band we're not a cliche so we'll spell it differently to prove that obviously like every girl band does so we were a cliche in the end but we were a good group we were a genuine.
Group we were true vocals we worked really hard from the ages of 11 you know we were singing from the ages of 11 and and we got signed at the age of 13 14 so I've been in the industry a long time before that I was a child actress I mean my first my first gig was in um Billy Ocean's music video get out of my dreams get into my car get in the back seat yeah yeah, that's so if you look at that video and you know that bit where it goes beep beep yeah I'm even still
doing the moves in the song if you look there's a shot where there's three little girls in a in a Cadillac and I'm the one in the middle of course I'm the one in the middle yeah so that was so that was me so you know you can find cliche music videos on YouTube you can find obviously that video video but so I was doing stuff from a very young age right so by the time I got in my late teens and I was feeling different I don't know
what that was whether it's depression whether it's what but I felt different sometimes I would cry over it if it did something didn't quite feel right no matter what it wasn't like a different good you know it was like a different like I don't feel I don't feel like I'm the same as everyone else I don't feel connected with this world I feel like everybody's living a life and I'm just a person walking in it like you know but like a character
but I don't feel like even the main character in my own story and what is so.
Juxtaposed about that is because people would have looked at me and gone but you're in a girl band and at that time by the way because social media wasn't about them but at that time cliche were big certainly for us coming from London cliche were big I was I was quote unquote famous yeah what type of famous that is different now because of social media like anyone could be famous in those days if you got famous for something
it was genuine because you only had newspapers you had billboard posters and those are the things we had so we had big billboards like how you'd see you know on the motorway or the street or the high street whatever we had, records we had cds well you know we had music videos and and you have pr so you didn't have social media and all those types of things yeah. You didn't have to be your own star. Right, right.
Right, right. I find it so hard now. That's why I said I'm scared of social media in many ways. But I recognize it as a powerful tool, right? Yeah. But, you know, so in those days, people would have thought I made it, I was doing well. But I always felt this sense of throughout, something isn't right with me. Something just isn't. I couldn't quite put my hands on it. Now, could we say it was bipolar at that point?
I don't know. We'll never know. because the triggers didn't come on until years later when there was a run-up of various things in my career I dealt with a lot of racism I dealt with a lot of sexism I don't and it's hard when you're sat in front of tv execs and they're acknowledging the hard work you put into the industry they're acknowledging your talent and and as a black woman knowing that I had to work or felt I certainly had to work 10 times harder than my white female counterparts
because we know that's how the game is yeah so you're there you're doing it and then an executive saying I'd love to give you that better gig in the spotlight but you're black and the people of the UK are racist London's cool but outside of London they don't want to see black people on their tv so can't we can't elevate you now for me I've always found that shocking exactly like you because I yes I've experienced racism of
course I'm from London but because I'm from London right Right. It's a melting pot. Yeah. So, yes, you get race. Yes, you get prejudice. But maybe they were right. The outside of London. Remember, I'm young. So, of course, I've gone places across the UK as a youngster, but I wasn't an adult who was traveling, experiencing these things myself. So when these people would tell me that, I was just appalled. I was shocked.
And I thought, what, so the whole UK is racist? But I'm born here. I'm British. Huh? I couldn't get my head around it. I couldn't get my head around the fact that what they were telling me was it didn't matter how hard I worked, the color of my skin was always going to hold me back regardless. And that actually I was allowed in the room, but I wasn't allowed a seat at the table. And I certainly wouldn't be allowed to, even if I got a seat at the table,
which I do now because I'm on a very popular show. So, however, some people will still ask the question, you may have a seat at the table now, but do they let you eat? I'm going to just dot, dot, dot, dot, dot there. I'm not going to even, maybe in a few years time, we'll come back to this conversation. We've bookmarked it right here. So I'll leave that there for now. I'm grateful for everything. But, you know, going back to your original point.
Yes, I did feel a bit different. I couldn't pinpoint it. And in fact, nothing really fully came out until my late 20s, early 30s.
That's when it all really came to a head yeah yeah oh wow I had one question about when you were talking about you know all that you were doing and yeah like getting famous if you didn't have like that's the wonderful thing about social media but also kind of different thing about social media is that like I have this free place to say hey pay attention to me but you had like agents or this so yeah legit famous I am curious yeah because I think this is a huge misconception and I
can't speak to all bipolar it is a we are not a monolith right but it's interesting that there's.
Some of us and I I feel this heart connection with you about this that strive for excellence that's my new way because my therapist said let I say perfectionist as a negative thing but try to to turn it around so we strive for excellence but to our own detriment like anything were you like that like it just had to be good it had to be perfect it didn't matter if you were you know getting and taking care of yourself do you resonate with that i'm feeling that vibe but
i'm not sure so resonate you're spot on you're spot on everything i do even now has to be excellent i i cross my I tease and I dot my eyes my attention to detail is unparalleled like it's why even I surprised myself I mean I wish I could monetize it I wish people cared enough the sort of skills I wish people cared to make I can make money from me unfortunately I can't I don't seem to be able to not yet anyway but it's more a case of everything I do whether I'm
planning a party whether I'm was doing a school play whether I'm creating a tv show hosting a tv show everything I do has to be of a certain level and actually yeah sometimes the other that's when my bipolar.
Isms can come out at those times before I was diagnosed and I look back now I could see that okay I was organizing this thing or doing that thing and I really lost my rag during that time because things weren't going how I wanted them to go and like I'd always have like annual birthday parties for example have all these wild ideas always a theme I love a theme so I always have a theme and if and I have this in my head and on the day if everything is not in my
head I would go mental like you know i would literally lose it and people whether it's like my my family someone's gonna get a rough someone's gonna get a rap or yeah or yeah you know i don't like i mean they might say they might say you do i was gonna say i don't like that but if i'm really pushed i can rant and rave it's all hot air and it will pass over in five minutes like a caribbean storm it comes it pours and it goes and everyone's forgotten it rained and we're all sat in the
heat and they all love me again but the bottom line is because of that perfectionism it can sometimes get me into trouble you're right there but do I do I like it no I don't I've just learned how to harness it yeah in a professional way because I don't want to hurt anyone and I don't want to be hurt myself I've learned how to manage my expectations as well more I still like everything done well and executed well yeah I've just learned that if that's the case don't.
Put that don't necessarily put people on higher pedestals do that for me yeah if I've got a vision I need to get the vision out but the issue with that a bit like you in this podcast you're doing everything and when we do everything because we can and our bipolar selves tell us we can and we probably can because it's almost like having superpowers sometimes if we know how to harness it the issue is is that we end up doing everything and then
we can burn ourselves out now we will achieve more than the average person I believe because I believe there's certain parts of bipolar that fuels us to achieve incredible things i know some incredible people bipolar who are doing amazing things on and off camera like you know but it's just a case of how do we harness those powers without burning out and i think that's where in my experience and experience of seeing other people where we fall because
what goes up must come down and when we get these visions we get really tunnel visions about it don't we and then before we know it burn out and And we're having, it may not be a major mental health crisis, but it can knock you back for a few weeks, can't it? Yeah, for sure, for sure. After a major event, I did a huge fundraiser for Human Trafficking Runway to Freedom. It was like... Something that probably would have taken like a professional to do in a year.
And I decided to do it with a friend and we decided, Oh, why? Of course, we'll do it in eight weeks. And it took me a while to recover. And I think you're right. And I think I do want to be aware of those that haven't figured out the right medication have, you know, like a lot of severe things.
We are motivating people but we also recognize that there are people that are listening to this that can't get out of bed and can't and we honor that too this is just our our experience absolutely for sure i want to tell those people is that i can't obviously speak for you but i'm sure you would agree i was one of those people who couldn't get out of bed who wouldn't leave the home who was riddled with anxiety i still get riddled with anxiety i still
get the thoughts but what i do hope for those particular people is that they see that there is life after diagnosis yeah that you were feeling shit now believe you me you were feeling like it's groundhog day because that's how I used to feel every day I'd wake up and it felt like the same shit different day groundhog groundhog groundhog I couldn't cut it was just awful it felt like nothing was going my way everything
was getting worse and this was post-diagnosis it wasn't easy I didn't just bounce to this place here. This way you see me here has taken 13 years, actually since diagnosis. I think it's my 13th year that I would have been diagnosed. So this is what you're seeing here. You're seeing somebody who was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Yeah. And I was sick and tired of it. I said, enough's enough because you know what?
Eva, it's rock bottom. And I knew I didn't want to take my life, even though I attempted many times, right? Sadly, but thankfully, I never achieved it, which means I'm here to live another day, which means actually, I never want to go to that place again. And I knew that in my heart of hearts, I didn't want to die. I don't think anyone, you know, who takes their own life sadly wants to die. They don't, they just can't take the pain, because I couldn't take the pain.
I get what pushes you there, right? Right. And this is why I do what I do, because any any way that I can maybe stop, stop someone from going there. If somebody's sitting there watching us now, you know, those that are in our position that may be doing well in life. Good for you. Keep fighting the good fight. We're here. Let's continue.
But for those who were like me, many moons ago, who are in that bed, in that house, crippled with depression, anxiety, mania, hyper mania and all the exhaustion and the mental anguish that goes with it. I want to beg you, not even ask you, not even say to you, I want to beg you, beg you, take every minute as it comes. Try not to think too far ahead because that's what I did.
I said, but, but, but, but, but I can't, but I can't, but this, but this, life is ruined, but it was always a but, but, but, but, but everything was a no in my head. My brain lied to me for years. And that's what bipolar does. It lies to us.
And it's easy for me to say, don't let it lie to you, but really don't let it like you know that there is life after this diagnosis you've been given know that you will be able to get out of bed know that you will be able to have a career you will be able to have a relationship and more than that men and women or whatever you're into will like you just for you they're not gonna not like you because you've got bipolar and if they don't like
you because you've got bipolar they're not for you surround yourself with great people who will amplify you who will lift you up and he will be there for you and you be there for yourself you will get there in the end I promise you just don't give up take every day as it comes every day as it comes try not to think too far ahead that's the only way I got through it that and believing believing in God believing in something bigger than myself because if I just had to look at the
world in 2d and at myself my brain that was lying to me every day telling me how rubbish I am how untalented I am how ugly I am what a mean person I am that nobody likes me I'll never make anything of myself I'll never do anything I'll never achieve anything life is over kill yourself now all of that if I'd listened to that then hey we wouldn't be here and even if it ends for me today which I pray it doesn't obviously I pray for a long life for us all you know the bottom line is is that.
I've been able, I know since my diagnosis and since coming out that like you, Shaley, we've helped people by just sharing our story. We're not out here trying to be saviors. All we're trying to do is just share in the hope, in the hope that it just helps you because we know that pain. And all we're trying to do is just help other people not feel that pain, right? Am I right?
I don't think you're a driver, right? because that's the only reason why I'm an ambassador and I speak out because I just think, gosh, I wish I had that. I wish I just had one person that looked like me or that I could relate to that. Do you know what I mean? That would tell me it'd be okay. And actually go, it's all right. You could get dressed. It won't always be so hard to brush your teeth. You know, it won't be so hard to get out the door. You will be okay.
You will be okay. I promise you will be okay. That's my prayer for you. So sorry, I'm going back. Never be sorry. Never ever be sorry. Sorry. I love that. And I love that you didn't, like, I love how you're saying you will be okay, but you're not saying when, and you're saying you were there for a long time. Cause I found, find that I used to feel, I used to always hear stories from the other side and, you know, bless them.
And I'm a woman of faith too, but especially some things at churches, it was always overcome, overcome. And to me, it was actually as hard as it was to, to accept that it's chronic and lifelong and uncurable as of now. That actually helped me because I always felt like I had to arrive or I don't like the language like conquering or whatever, because we'll always have it. But like you said, we've found things we have access to things that can that
can help us manage. So I I love that you aren't, we don't know when. Like Leah and I don't know when or how, but we know there's better days. We know it. Yeah, there are. There'll become more better days than there are dark days. I promise you that if you just hold on. Even though it feels like Groundhog Day and it may feel like, gosh, this is never going to change. But there are things that we have to do as well. If we sit in the pit, you know, then we're going to stay in the pit.
And that's the truth of the matter. If we rely on friends and family to pull us out.
Listen yes I had a few people but at the time of my breakdown I probably was a nightmare my family disowned me yeah for two years now we're close again yeah but I had nobody for two years I lost my relationship I lost my home I lost I didn't have I lost my job I lost my family like I lost everything that I could lose at that point I lost my belongings I lost all my memorabilia from all all my career from a child up until that point.
And I was just like, forget this, forget this. What is the point? And they are like, what is the point? And I will tell you something just for those, because I feel really led to say this and I don't always go deep. You know, I'm not, I'm a believer. Anyone could be religious. Remember that. I could religiously go to the gym. So I don't ever say I'm religious, but I believe, I believe in God and I believe in Jesus specifically.
But I just want to say, because I feel led, is that that day I lost all my belongings because I was in a bipolar phase. I had no money. It was in storage because I'd lost my home, right? And I had nowhere to put the stuff and then I had no way of paying the bills. And obviously by then I was sick anyway. So what were bills? Like, what were bills? I don't even know how to brush my teeth. Like, what are bills? Like, what are bills?
I lost all my stuff and it felt like a death. It felt like the biggest loss I'd ever had, obviously, because it was everything that I knew. And you know, when you go through mania and bipolar and all of that, you lose a lot of memory, you lose things. And that was the only thing that was keeping me going was my achievement, my girl band, the memorabilia, the this, the that, you know, the things that I did in my early career in kids' TV and things like that.
And all of it was gone. It was lost. It was stolen. It was taken.
And I remember sitting on a bus when i heard the news bawling my eyes out bawling bawling bawling just felt like life was over that's it that's that's the last thing i need now forget it i'm out and i just heard that still quiet voice saying and that's why i just want to share this and it said to me your latter will be greater than your former that was it beautiful and to be honest at that point i thought i don't want to hear no biblical scripture don't tell
me that my life is going to be great i don't give a damn about that because at that point I was very angry with God because I said how would you let this happen to me why would you let this happen to me I was brought up Catholic I became a Christian in my early 20s so I became what they would do again so by now my late 20s I'm now I'm well and I'm saying to God hold on a minute I've given you my life why have you let this happen and so just like my parents I stopped talking to him
for a number of years because he annoyed me I said how How dare you? Obviously, I've now repented of me and God. You know, me and God, that's my homie. But, you know, at the time, I was furious. How could you let the enemy do that to me? How could you let me be attacked? I've done everything you wanted me to do. And now you've gone and lost my belonging.
You've let my belongings get stolen and lost and all the rest of it, as well as me having a major mental illness that I'm now going to have to hide for the rest of my life. Thanks for that. And people say you're real. Well, you know what? I'm not even talking to you anymore. I'm done. And that's what I heard back. But the reason why I'm telling this is because whoever's listening now, I want them to know when I'm here, God was right.
Now, for those who want to leave us, I'm not here to try and convert anyone. I just wanted to share that for anyone right now, like you say, who is on the sofa as I'd be even now on my depressed days, that's where you'll find me on my sofa for day. Wouldn't talk to anybody because it still happens to me now. So again, that's why I didn't say when to that person that we're talking to right now, because we shouldn't put timescales on ourselves because that pressure makes it worse.
And then the guilt that comes with the pressure when we don't follow through everything that we put in our head, we're going to set us back days and weeks. And it gives enough space for the enemy. And we're not talking a spiritual sense. Let's just talk about the enemy of the mind because the battle's in the mind, right? Yeah, yeah, that's good. It allows that enemy to come and attack you. Do you know what I mean?
Because then you're feeling, oh, I said I was going to do that. yesterday I said I was going to get up today and I was going to have a shower that was the thing I was going to do today you know sometimes it's that bad yeah you could just make little thing today I said I was going to have a shower it gets to nine o'clock at night and you still haven't had that shower now the guilt comes and now the thoughts come and you see oh
pathetic you can even get up and have a shower look at you that's what would happen to me and then I'll be set back for days because of something like that and now I'm you know that person that we're talking to I I just want to say some, give yourself a break, give yourself a break. Give yourself a break. Don't just, honestly, if I could just get across anything to somebody, because I just beat myself up, you know.
Nobody could beat me up physically, metaphorically, emotionally, mentally, the way I would beat myself up. Yeah. Like in a, like a championship boxer. I beat myself to a pulp. Yeah. And I just, anyone who is going through that right now, just go easy on yourself. Just please go easy on yourself. You look at the likes of us. I've still got a long way to go. I still suffer behind closed doors. I try and be as open as it is possible.
I'm not that type of person that's going to come on social media and start crying and go, everybody, look at me. For me, I find that a bit weird. It's not my style. But I will talk like I'm talking now and say, listen, I still suffer sometimes.
My mood still goes low. I still suffer quite more depression symptoms than manic symptoms of bipolar but at the same time I've learned different skills to manage different skills to manage so wow there you go babe yeah yeah that's that's good and are my friends that aren't people of faith will we will talk about other things but I just wanted to mention that because I was like deeply wounded by folks well well-meaning folks in the church, you know, judging,
you know, judging my faith, judging all the things because I couldn't heal myself. Yeah, the same thing. I was in church that time. You know you're getting people to pray for you on you around you did it ironically and again everyone each to their own i'm closer to god now and i haven't been going to church for years you know me and god are tight we're good we're good yeah it doesn't have to sorry right no no it's your podcast honey yeah so you go through what was i'm just here i'm just
i love it i love I love it. Yeah. I feel, yeah. I feel it more out sometimes outside a building. Like this feels like church to me, us being honest and open. This feels like church, not shiny, happy. I don't know. I'm just saying that. Yeah. And that's why I said to people, it's not about religion. When people say you're religious now, I'm not religious. I'm a believer though, but I'm not religious because anyone could be religious.
We can all religiously go to church, you know and come out as assholes afterwards which many people do let's be really real and I knew for quite an early age of why I became a Christian from Catholicism in the first place because I was like this isn't right everyone's going to church and doing this whole Hail Mary and then they're coming out and I'm seeing that one there must be something more real to this and that's what got me on my my journey my path with God
but I was always close before but I didn't quite understand it was something more tall i had to learn for myself and then like i said when i became ill i was angry with him because he's like a father right he's like our own father so i was just angry and then obviously i've come around of that and i realized that you know that that story that parable is it i used to have it on my wall called footsteps when the guy says yeah i was walking
along with jesus and he says to him you know there was two sets of footprints and look at this whole part where my journey was so hard. There's only one set of footprints. You abandoned me. That's what he said to Jesus. You abandoned me. That's how I felt. You abandoned me. And he said, I didn't abandon you. Those footprints are mine. I was carrying you. Yeah. And that always stays with me because it's true. I couldn't see him or feel him at that time. I couldn't. And I was annoyed.
But when I look back, I think, God, he really carried me because the amount of suicide attempts and the different things and the fact that I'm still here willing to tell the tale. I mean, another thing that he told me along that journey was, yeah, you may have this bipolar, but you don't need to accept it for what it is. Watch what I do with it. Again, he hasn't lied.
And this is at the time when it was all in secret. hypocrite I never imagined because of the stigma I did not think I would publicly even tell friends that I had bipolar let alone tell the world and be talking about it being an advocate and an ambassador so again yeah was it wrong so you know but anyway that's the people those who have faith hopefully they can resonate with that and those that don't don't don't lose heart either because Because you can hear our stories.
Of course, we know that having faith helps. But if you want to look at it as the universe, and I say all that in the hope that you'll lead people in the right place. I'm not here to preach. But at the end of the day, I hope it leads people in the right place that even if we believe in something bigger than ourselves, it takes away the energy from always thinking of ourselves and what, because we've got no control in that sense. You know, whatever the bigger picture.
Yeah, right, right. Whatever that bigger is to you, then it doesn't feel because depression makes us small. It makes our world small. It makes I feel like it's a blinder on me. It makes us small. And when there's something out there, that's, you know, whatever you think it is, unless alone, and I I've had my ups and downs and struggles and still do. And so I.
Still, I don't know. That's why I say women of faith, because I don't always know where I stand, because in the world, y'all, what's going on with, like you said, the religious. Anyways, I feel like we have to have a whole other podcast about this, which would be amazing. I think so. Yeah, I mean, it's an important topic to have. And that's why I always say to people, I'm not preaching, because, you know, at the end of the day, your God could be Yahweh, could be Jehovah, it could be Allah.
Do you know what I mean? It could be whoever your God is, is your God, you know, that's absolutely fine.
Mind and we're not here obviously to preach that what we are here to preach though or to or to encourage is to have faith in that god that you believe in or have faith in something that's bigger than you because that was one of the key things that shifted my mindset towards wellness i feel like you stay in that dump as you describe that blinker depression the way it clouds you you stay small and that your mind will trick you to keep that small yeah and i don't want that for
you nor does shaley you know we don't want that for you so that's the only reason why i say it yeah i believe it's important to share to share the truth and the whole truth and you take the bits that you want to take you know yeah yeah i get scared to talk about that part just because i know how many people yeah me too and and such and i don't want to be identified with the north american you know stereotypical because of all the other stuff but that is going to be i am saying it
now we are going to have a podcast on this because yeah it's it's it's a tough one but it's it could be really beautiful. And it's a part of your story, right? It's a part of your story. And even one of the things that actually helped me heal just in this patriarchal society, look at us, we're just going there, going deep, was viewing, you know, viewing God as mother and as in those nurturing parts, right?
Just in this male dominated world, I couldn't, the he, he, he, and, you know, that kind of blasphemous in the church that I used to go to. Too. But I had to see that as nurturing because I, you know, I kept getting hit over the head with, you know, that I'm inherently bad. And you know what? I already thought that. I didn't need to believe that. I think that, you know, deep down, we're good.
We're good. Of course. And the thing is, you know, we have to recognize that there are churches that do amazing things.
And there are churches that also do a lot of damage. I've been in those churches, is too that has caused more damage than good I've heard stories from people that said I went to church for healing and help and actually I came out worse so that's why I'm not preaching about church yeah I'm preaching about your relationship over religion I have a relationship with a higher being yes I've brought up to use the pronouns he and whatever but I
see God is bigger than a yeah do you know what I mean so God God is something that we don't even know because we're not gods, right? God is just God. I was listening to this podcast and you were talking about, you know, you were telling people, you were crying for help. You were like, hey, I think I'm this, I think I'm this. Can you take us back there and tell us, you know, what that looked like and what was that moment that, you know, that you went in and got the help?
I don't want to give it all away because I heard it, but tell us. Okay. So look, in short, but still giving even the essence of the story. Please do. Like I said, suffering on and off with depression, but in those days didn't even know what depression was, right? It wasn't spoken about in society in general, let alone, and I'm talking about UK society. I can't speak for everywhere in the world, but I'm talking about UK society, still very taboo, wasn't unspoken of, it wasn't really spoken of.
So that was just depression, anxiety. So imagine things like bipolar and schizophrenia and other mental health conditions.
That was just for special type of crazy people you know and I wasn't that type of crazy person so nobody ever thought including myself that I could have bipolar now at that point I had been struggling with depression like I mentioned the bullying the various things the different sort of traumas that I'd had in the industry things I've spoken about and things that I'm not ready to speak about yet things that are very traumatic very dark
very horrible if people put two and two together they could probably start to imagine various things that have happened to me at the same time though it's not the right time there will be a time that I will speak about it but now it's not the right time I think however there were things that happened, Yeah, I think that's wise, too. So, you know, I think I could talk about what I can talk about for now. And this is it. So there was a number of things that made me depressed.
I was suffering depression. Or was I? Because what was happening was I was presenting myself to the doctor. I'll give them that. Anytime I go to the GP, my doctor, I guess I was presenting when I was depressed. So I'm going there disheveled. I wasn't presenting on my manic days when I'm dressed up and I'm fun and I'm fun. Why would I want to go to the doctor?
Like exactly right so but the thing is there was no mania at that point so whenever I was suffering these bouts of depression when I would bounce back it it would go to the default which was my normal which was just normal oh my gosh you were she's you weren't me yeah right so it was just like well it wasn't extreme so I'd be depressed and then I'd go reset to default there was no mania at that point for me and if there was it was creeping in but it was nothing that
you could put a finger on, right? It just looked like my personality. And it also looked like it just went hand in hand with the ups and downs of my career. I've been in TV or entertainment business all my life. So it just, and whatever industry you're in, right, it could be the same. So when things were going great, it was great. And when things were going shit, well, I was at home depressed, right? Feeling shit.
So for me and for my friends and family, that was quote unquote quote normal because she's having a tough time of course she's at home depressed oh she's got a job now so she's back she's finally happy Leah again actually now looking at it and that was that was probably mania wasn't it it was probably depressing you know hyper manic or depressive and manic episodes very mild very mild until it got worse so what I remember is two years in the
darkness miss two years like I was agoraphobic I didn't leave really right. Yeah, I couldn't even bathe. I couldn't get dressed. I couldn't brush my teeth. I remember my ex-partner one day picking me up in my clothes, in my pajamas, and just putting me in the shower. I must have stunk. I don't think he did it because I stunk. I think he did it to help me because he didn't understand what was going on.
But he was just like, I think it was just something he did because I felt like he felt that just that water on my body would have been healing.
You know what what I mean I feel I know exactly what to do and I don't begrudge him for that but I remember that him putting me in the shower just like yeah yeah we're putting you in the shower and I was really suffering depression I kept going to my GP saying I'm depressed I'm depressed and they kept giving me antidepressants and then suddenly from that depressive phase I woke up one morning and oh my gosh the world was beautiful coming from a place where everything
was dark my mind was dark my eyes were dark I remember writing on the floor in pain screaming at my partner going I can't take this I was clawing at my skin I just need a minute for my brain I was saying a minute I just need I remember it like yesterday I just need a minute I need a minute I need a minute I need a minute because my thoughts were just oh my thoughts wouldn't let me have a minute and I just said I just need a minute outside of my body I was begging him I
was begging anybody god him whoever I mean just I need a minute outside of my I need a break just for a second I can't take the thoughts it's relentless it was a relentless attack 24 7 day like someone just doing that to you poking you poking you poking you until you go what what do you want yeah that got to a breaking point for me I was writhing on the floor in physical physical anguish I've never felt such pain like it
right and we didn't know what was wrong obviously thought it was depression and And from then, suddenly everything was great. It was like I was healed. The trees were green and the sun was shining. And for someone who didn't want to get washed and dressed for weeks, who, by the way, is a very hygienic person. I mean, you know, I've been told I'm too hygienic. Now, suddenly I can't wash for days. I mean, it's shocking, right? For me, it is.
So, you know, so then going from that to suddenly now, I'm putting on my best clothes and a face full of makeup.
I'm getting my hair done. done and I want a party whose party would be no no one wants to party with you that's fine I'll go by myself leave my partner at 12 one o'clock in the morning because I heard that there's a party on the other side of London and I could get the last train to the other side of London to a place I've never been to people I don't know and I remember one time in this situation sitting on this train. And it was like an out-of-body experience. My thoughts are going,
you would never do this. Something is wrong with you. A, you would not leave your partner. You would not go to a random party. You would not just cross London to meet strangers. I don't even know how I heard of this party. That was so wild. Like I was just doing wild things like that. I was spending, spending, spending, buying stuff on eBay, like auctions, just to fight people, just for like a penny.
You have to win. win I had to win and then they were coming through the door I don't know what was in them I wasn't opening we had a spare room and I was throwing it all in the spare room and closing the door like and I was just I was I was just different person and then one day but I knew something wasn't right I knew in my heart I was like yeah something's just not you know right but I couldn't stop it whether I wanted to I couldn't stop people don't understand
that people don't understand that I read once there was this post by someone that said, mania doesn't give suggestions, it gives orders. And I was like, what? It's true. It doesn't feel like people are like, well, just don't make the choice or just don't. And yes, now with medicated managing, yes, you can, you know, I can do that. But in those times of, of illness, it wasn't a choice.
It would feel like it felt like I was going to like die or I was something was going to happen if I I didn't do that thing. Impulsive and you were, you were like, you had no, I had no choice. I had no autonomy over my body. Whatever my body told me, whatever my brain told me to do, I was going to do it. And that's why I was so afraid. And that takes me back to your question. You are why I kept going to my doctor because now I went from depression.
Remember, I'm still taking these antidepressants, but now I'm manic. I'm high. I'm cured. I'm not depressed anymore in my head. Right. I'm not depressed anymore. I'm clearly cured. Look at me, everyone. I'm great. I'm on form. And family and friends thought I was back on form. They thought she's back. She's been missing for two years. They love it. She's looking great. They bloody loved it. But the issue was, was that I had no control over myself.
And my brain would tell me to go out, but it would also tell me to walk in front of traffic. Do you know how many times I'd just walk in front of traffic towards a speeding car? Compulsed. Yeah. And then go. What just happened? Yeah. Right. So all these things that I became afraid of myself, I became very afraid. So I kept going back to the doctor, back to the doctor. And they kept telling me I was too articulate.
I was too self-aware if you have bipolar you wouldn't be able to speak the way you do you look very different to how you look you wouldn't be able to explain your feeling like every single stereotype stigma bullcrap that could come out of professionals mouth not just one doctor several it went undetected for years and as we know now antidepressants induces mania so that mania was.
Induced I'm not saying I didn't have bipolar and that that couldn't have been diagnosed but the fact that I was given these antidepressants is what induced it accelerates it yep yep so I was just well so I ended up how I got diagnosed because I kept being told no no no no no that day I was just like if I don't get out today I'm going to take my life and it was very matter of fat because I couldn't take the pain I said I'm done yeah this is
my last chance for noon obviously in my heart of hearts I realized that it was a cry for help because I always like I said I was afraid of myself I always knew I didn't want to die I always knew I wanted to live but my brain my body couldn't fight the fight anymore I was tired I was really tired and so I wrote a suicide note and and I brought it to my doctor's surgery and through silent tears I just slipped it across cross the counter and it said my name's Leah Charles I'm a patient here
and if you don't help me today I'm gonna leave here I'm gonna I'm gonna take my life that's how I mean I said it a bit more straight than that but I basically said that and obviously it was all panic and all systems go an ambulance was called I was taken off in an ambulance and then put in just a weird.
Meeting room at the back of an old part of the hospital and left there for hours hours to the point where I just I thought well screw this because remember I'm manic yeah this I can't sit one place for five minutes let alone yeah hours so I got up and I started walking about suddenly I'm seeing these people chasing me we've been looking for you everywhere are you need chance yeah yeah yeah we've been looking for you and I said please I'm begging you put me in a hospital put me in hospital now
I need to go if you don't that's it it's on for me and they said no you're too hard again they said the same thing hospitals aren't nice places you're too articulate it wouldn't be good for you I said it would be good for me because if you don't take me to the hospital this is what's going to happen they gave me some drugs to sedate me yeah and they sent me home they sent me home I think they were actually sending me home on the bus and I was like I don't even have a bus pass because I walked
into the doctors and the doctor brought me in an ambulance they would just gave me a diazepam and was sending me on a bus and I think in the end because I said I don't even have money to get home I think they put me in a cab I vaguely remember that and I got home and then after that they said someone would be in touch so you could be referred to psychiatry and maybe six to eight months later I finally I finally got that invitation.
To go to the psychiatrist within half an hour of him asking some of my story and some of my life He just puts down his pen and looks at me straight and goes, Leah, you have bipolar. He said, you've achieved a lot, but you've also had a lot of trauma. And you know what? People with bipolar do achieve a lot. They're high achievers. But he said, there's no way you were going to reach to an old lady and not have had a breakdown and not have been diagnosed with bipolar. So here we are.
And that is the story, my friend, of how I was diagnosed. Not for want of trying. They kept plugging me with the wrong medication and kept shooing me away.
And that made me angry and so when I got that diagnosis I felt vindicated and I felt high for a while I was like yeah I knew it I told you all and then I felt angry because I felt like god I could have been dead 10 times over I was crying for help and I was ignored like because it was used against me that I'm articulate that I could string a sentence together so what are you trying to say people bipolar are dumb they're stupid they don't have to speak they're actually some Some
of the most clever, now I know this, obviously not at the time, but some of the most intelligent people I've had the pleasure of meeting, like yourself. So all these untruths that we're told are untruths. And that is what is important to me to get across on this journey now as an ambassador or as an advocate, you know, to speak about it. Because we are conditioned with all these untruths that make us small, make us nothing, dim our light.
But our lights should continue to shine bright because we are intelligent, talented, thoughtful, empathetic people. If we come out on the other side of all the hardships we've been through, you've got a choice. You can either come out bitter and twisted and a horrible person, or you could come out the other side where your empathy levels, your understanding, your love for people is so magnified. And thankfully, that's the side I came out. And that's why we're here today.
Day nothing I do is for selfish purposes I turn things down if they're not authentic I don't do this whole mental health thing because it's a buzzword or it's a campaign or it's good for social media that's why I don't have my own podcast that's why I don't have my own channel because until I can get to that place I could do it healthily without making myself sick I just can't I can't justify it but if Shady invites me on her podcast to talk
about it I'm going to use that hour or two to really drive home, you know, the information as much as I can and to share in the hope, in the hope. In the hope, just in the hope that it helps.
It helps someone it saves a life it gives somebody hope it lets them say you know what I may be down but I'm not out I may be low but I can come back out of this again I can survive I can live a good life and more importantly to know that we deserve oh goodbye it's not an affidavit we deserve we deserve happiness you know we deserve it there's nothing different to what I know as people for bipolar, we beat ourselves up. For years, I told myself I was untalented. I didn't deserve anything.
Lies. I deserve it. I deserve a good job. I deserve a good home. I deserve to be happy. I deserve to laugh. I deserve to love and be loved. And so do you. And so does everybody else who has bipolar. We are not bad people. Do not believe anyone who tells you you're bad. If anyone tells you you're bad. You need to change your friends. Yeah. And you need to forgive yourself for the things that, you know, that you have done because of your disorder. Right.
Like, your brain can help you just do in those things. And just the, you know, the shame and embarrassment, you have to forgive yourself.
You have to forgive yourself if that's, you know, if you've treated. like i think about how you know like how at home like with my husband how he got the brunt of it and i can wallow in that and uh you know i've apologized and you know it was hard but i have to forgive myself or i can't be well i just can't you have to forgive yourself and that is exactly what you said that is the crux of becoming well again you know i wrote 25 steps to
living well with bipolar it was like a little free ebook i gave last year i'm gonna i'm gonna send it to you maybe oh I would love that yeah there are any people who want to you know I don't know you could put a code word like say yes to something and you can send them each yeah from me to them and I basically outline the 25 steps that I did things that I did and that is I think is a key thing because if we don't forgive ourselves for the bad
things we've done we're going to continue to ruin those relationships because you know your husband's stuck around he loves you yeah right so So at the end of the day, if you keep going on and on and on and on about it with him, that can then ruin it. Whereas you've got to forgive yourself, put that to bed and say, how am I going to show up tomorrow? Because now I realize the thing I've done wrong. It doesn't give us an excuse to be horrible people to others.
I've got bipolar, I could be a bitch. No, it doesn't give us an excuse.
But if you work on that mindset and once we figure out certain things, like you say, you forgive yourself, yourself you apologize to others and then you have to draw a line and move on that means you can't pull yourself back and don't let others pull you back because I've had people from my past that have come now in my future in my present and have tried to pull me back to that past and I've gone well hold on I'm not that person you're not pulling
me back there my friend it's not going to happen you know I'm not that person I apologize for that and we put that to bed but what you're not going to do is 20 years on beat me around the head for something I said 20 years ago I have profusely apologized I can't you know say no more than that I would done well but at the same time you're not going to now in 2024 for example keep banging me over the head with it when I'm trying to do so much good in the world like absolutely no way.
Yeah, yeah. And to like, when I like, we are not perfect when I mess up when I'm snarky, when I, you know, just get overwhelmed, you know, I call it the apology tour. Like I'm here for the apology tour. And luckily, I believe in forever chances. So you you know, you just you try again, you try again, because it is going to pop up.
Oh, my goodness. that was so beautiful before we move into I want to talk about actually some of those things that you talked about the 25 I want to talk about some of those and I want to talk about because as you said this is mental health awareness month it's the week where you live it was my week last week it's all over the country but may is mental health awareness month so I love to talk about you know, the biggest misconceptions. And I'm going to do that in what we call part two.
But for this, this section, I just want to say, I am so glad that you are in this world. And I am so glad. And it sounds bizarre that you wrote that note and you showed up for yourself that my friend, I know you had no choice.
But the courage that takes it, it will inspire other people because you know what, when other people aren't showing up for us, and you friends, you can go back and listen to my episode, and just see the mirror in me and Leah, because the medicine, the begging for help, we have that in common, and so I just feel that so deeply in my body, when you were talking about that, and I just encourage people, because the, stigma and all of the, you know, the, the shame that society puts on us,
you know, don't let that stop you from getting help because you deserve to get help. And the stigmas are real and things aren't going to be rosy and there might be discrimination against you, but you deserve to feel well. And we are, we are working on changing those things. And I want to talk about those misconceptions. So I just got all excited, but all that to say, you are, you are doing the the thing. You are saving the lives. You are showing up. You are being honest.
You're not saying, Hey, look at me. I'm all better. You're saying there are things and you are saying you are putting the work in and I, I love you. And I can't wait to talk to you about the next, the next segment. So friend, thank you. This is bipolar. We also have all our previous episodes of the podcast on Apple, Podbean, Spotify, and Google Play. We spend most of our time on Instagram at this.is.bipolar.
There is a vibrant community there where we have conversations and post different ideas and different strategies. And we'd just love for you to join us there. It is so helpful if you enjoy our work or think it would be helpful to someone if you could like and share and save and follow us in all or any of those spaces. If you're a listener for the podcast, if you could leave a review, we would be forever grateful.
Again, thank you for being here with us, let's get the word out, let's share lived experiences so that we can change the ideas that people have about bipolar and help those of us that live with it feel less alone. Music.