Bipolar & Relationships:: Real Stories & Insights

Music. Conversations with. My name is Shaylee Kukendorn and I live with Bipolar 2 Disorder.

Sharing with others is healing both individually and collectively. Sharing our stories will educate others, bring more understanding, shed more light and smash more stigma. Our voices need to be heard. Our stories aren't over yet. This is Bipolar. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to This is Bipolar. We are so glad you're here. Before we get started, I wanted to let you know that I have peer support on Instagram.

And what that looks like is a subscription. And when you subscribe, you get added to a chat. We are on there daily. There are people from all over the world, and we are just sharing and supporting each other. And we also meet on Zoom once a month, which has been a really beautiful experience just to see the faces and hear the stories and ideas of people that actually live with mood disorders like ourselves.

And so if that sounds like something that you might need, go to my Instagram at this.is.bipolar and sign up for subscription and I can get you hooked up with all of those things. All right. If you haven't been here before, my name is Shaili Hugendorn. I live with bipolar 2 disorder. I am a mom. I am a wife. I am also an elementary school substitute teacher, and I am a mental illness advocate.

And I have here my reoccurring guest co-host slash friend slash brilliant person, Andrea, who will introduce herself. Hi. Thank you, Shaili. My name is Andrea Vasilev. I am a doctor of psychology. I am a therapist. I am a mental health advocate. And most importantly, I am someone who has lived with bipolar for almost 30 years now. Oh my gosh. I feel like every time we record, I have to up that number. Yeah. You're like, oh, time changes. There's more years.

That's amazing. Today, my friends, we are recording on the last day of February. It will come out in March. But I know this month on Instagram and with my support group, we have been talking a lot about relationships.

And so we thought that we would talk today about some personal experiences with relationships and how living with bipolar disorder affects those relationships. And so we are excited to share this because I think that people carry A lot of shame. Sometimes we lose friends. I just think it's a really important topic to talk about because it is such an added struggle for us. Andrea, where should we start? I just want to say that I think people might be a little apprehensive thinking,

oh, my gosh, relationships. I've really struggled with relationships. I'm never going to find someone. It's hard to get along with my family. And it can seem like doom and gloom. And I think something that you and I probably want to highlight is that the struggle is real, as we say, right? But that there are ways to cope and that there are positive, healthy, meaningful relationships to be had. So do not despair.

Yeah, especially if you're listening to this. One of the questions I get all the time is, can I have a healthy relationship? Can I get married? Am I destined to be alone? And will it be extra hard? Yes. Especially if it's not managed and there isn't some sort of treatment plan. So thank you for saying that. Yes. And I also want to recognize that we have a certain experience, and so there's going to be future podcasts with different experiences.

So, with that being said, do we want to start with romantic relationships? Sure. So, I think today we're going to cover sort of our personal experiences, right? And then maybe we can loop back in another episode and talk about tips. Tips, yes. We're definitely going to do that. You know that's the questions we're going to get. Today, we're going to lay it all out there. What are common problems? What are problems we've had? And then our next episode, we're going to talk about tips, tricks.

That makes it sound like... Like we have all the answers. Yeah, one, all the answers. Yeah. We, tips and tricks, managing that kind of thing. Ones that we use ourselves and ones that I aspire to use, but are very difficult. So watch for that. It will come out after this. Definitely. So I think relationships covers many things, romantic, friends, family, but I think there are some sort of golden threads that go through all of those. Yes.

In any relationship, let's do some general stuff. in any relationship, what are the changes you notice in your behavior that impact your relationships? Yeah. Yeah. So I think I'll start out with depression just because as Andrea and I were talking just before we started here, how that's an added struggle for those of us that live with a mood disorder because it isn't just one. Because you aren't just depressed.

Because we experience depressive episodes. We experience euthymia, another fancy word for symptom-free, and hypomania or mania. Or mixed states. Or mixed states, right? That's a double whammy there. But so I will start with depression because when I'm depressed, it affects my relationships much differently. So I am married and I was not diagnosed till I was 32 years old. So when I look back, I always felt different and weird and like I had too big of emotions.

And so that made me very self-conscious as a teenager. So I had this image in my mind, if I had a boyfriend, I need to always have a boyfriend. Because just the fact that someone picked me and that I had a boyfriend, I felt like that made me look like to the world less different. So therefore, I settled for relationships and stayed in relationships and through my high school years and beginning of my 20s that weren't healthy. But I would rather, I chose the unhealthy over the being alone.

Yeah. So I think that if you're feeling bad because you have bipolar or because your experiences are different from everybody else's or because you take medication and your friends don't, that can impact, that can chip away at your sense of self. So people might be seeking validation. We all seek validation. Let's be honest, bipolar, not everybody's seeking validation.

Of course. But if you're seeking more of it, that might be down to how you're feeling about bipolar, like you're describing, Shirley. Yeah. And I found, if we start with depression, I found that when I would become depressed...

The relationship would change and I wasn't fun and new and shiny and what a lot of people that partners that I had signed up for because when I talk about hypomania that's all every single one of my relationships started in that state yeah and so I think that I would instead of doing the regular things that I would do with my boyfriends go out or do things because I'm very social I would just want to sit on the couch with them I just wanted to do nothing but I wanted them to be there but I

wanted to do nothing and I think that was really hard on relationships because yeah that inconsistency yeah and it's like shocking to them and all of a sudden I don't become a great communicator because I'm quiet and everything is gray and I my world gets really small. So I would get like hyper focused on not wanting to be alone. And I think that's a lot to put on someone. Yeah. How about you when you experience depression? And I was speaking mostly

of boyfriends. I'll speak about my partner in a bit. But how about you? How did it affect relationships when you were younger? You were diagnosed very early in your teens.

I was. yeah i was diagnosed at 14 so in some ways i didn't feel different in the way you felt different because i knew how i was different which is just a different set of circumstances yeah but i still felt different none of my friends took medication i being in high school and i missed the first three months of high school because i had just gotten diagnosed and i was completely non-functional.

So then coming back and having to explain to everybody it was hard for me to make friends I remember I only had one friend at that point who I told that I was taking medicine and what had happened and she of course was also 14 and didn't have any context and was like all right that's fine so she was great shout out but as I went through life I think that it's the symptoms that got in the way it wasn't my sense of having bipolar and that being a problem but like you mentioned,

it's the symptoms that got my way of being able to be a good friend, a good partner, a good daughter, etc. But... That comes and goes as the symptoms come and go. Yeah, yeah. And I think that a partner might feel, and I know with my husband now. Feel pretty helpless when I experience depression. Because I think as human beings, it's our natural inclination to want to help or fix.

And there isn't a lot. And I think one of the things that I do is I want encouragement to do the things that are going to help, like the walks, like this. But also, I explain depression like I'm already walking around the world with a sunburn, right? So I'm thinking all the terrible things about myself. I'm vulnerable. I'm already, anything that someone could say that I wasn't doing well at, I've already berated myself with it.

And obviously medicated, this is a lot better now, but I'm thinking pre, and I still don't do that well with people really close to me sometimes telling me things I've done because it makes all those terrible thoughts. It's, oh, of course, yeah, it's true, right? And so I walk around with this sunburn and then this, like when my husband tells me something, like I take it all the wrong way. So it's, oh, maybe you should go for a walk or maybe you should do this. I'm like, you think I suck.

You think, don't tell me to do these things. You don't understand how hard it is, right? I get pretty defensive. Do you get defensive when you're depressed?

You have a great amount of insight and self-awareness that you can sit here and say you get defensive i don't want to say i don't get defensive because eventually my husband's going to listen to this podcast and he'll laugh at me but am i aware that i get defensive maybe not i'm not sure yeah but you make a good point about communication that is something that can really suffer if you're having bipolar symptoms if you're experiencing depression like shaley just described.

It can be hard to hear what people are actually saying. You might put it through the lens of the ugly lens of depression and interpret it a different way than it was intended and it was said. If you're experiencing elevation, it can be hard to slow down and hear what other people are saying. You might not want the reality check that they're giving you. Hey, maybe this plan you have isn't a great idea. You don't want to hear that, so you stop listening because that breaks down communication.

Yeah, it really does too because I also get really needing of reassurance, which I don't in other states. So I think even though like my husband is used to it, but I think in the past, I just am always like either asking or needing reassurance or I overread body language. I'm like, oh, they're mad at me. Or you put everything through the distortions. And through like texts or whatever. Normally I'd be like, oh,

that person's busy. That's why they didn't answer. I was like, oh, they're breaking up with me as a friend and they hate my gut. So there goes that friendship. Meanwhile, like maybe they're had a busy week, right? But I am convinced. And the weirdest thing about that is that even now, medicated, therapy, all of those things, I can see that thought outside of me. But the frustrating thing about depression is I still think it. Yeah. Still think it even when I'm managing.

How about you? They're really loud. Those thoughts are really loud during depression, right? It's very hard to neutralize them and see the logic in them. So all of that impacts communication, right? For sure. You're reading into things, assuming things, jumping to conclusions. That's really hard. And that can be frustrating for the partner. So I guess now we're in romantic relationships, right?

Yeah. So that can be hard for the partner because their method of communicating hasn't changed dramatically, I presume, right?

Yeah. But your method of communicating has. And that can be really hard. Yeah. And even with, and I know I struggle with different ways and I know that this is, can be experienced on different levels, but I find because I'm withdrawn, like the hugs or like just goodbye kisses or things like that, it's almost like I forget to be in contact, right? Like physical contact, I forget.

I could just sit there. I don't think, oh, come sit beside me or physical touch and we know hugs and things like that help. I forget about all that. And it's needed, right? Like we all need hugs. We know this. And I think that can be hard for my partner because generally I'm snuggly and I'm just on this lone island.

How about you? i think that's true although i think when i experience depression i get more snuggly i need more of it not less of it yeah which again speaks to this the inconsistency that makes this such a difficult road to navigate which it's hard for us but it's really hard for our partners i just want.

That's an elephant in the room right like how hard it is for a partner and that doesn't mean that you're not worthy of love and it doesn't mean that you're never going to find love and it doesn't mean that someone won't love you just as you are it just means we should be aware of how hard it can be for our partners because that might motivate us to work towards wellness to do what we can to mitigate our symptoms to have more self-awareness that motivates me anyway right Yeah, same.

And I know I try to be aware of how exhausting, it's exhausting for me, but it's also, it can be tiring for our partners because we feel like a bit of whiplash about having the going back and forth or just not knowing about what mood might be there. I think it's also whiplashy for them as well because things that help me when I'm depressed, and we'll get into that in the next episode, are very different than things that help me when I am elevated.

And you know what I think is confusing, at least for, I can only speak from the point of view of my husband, is that I don't come with a sign. I don't wear a sign that says, today I'm feeling slightly elevated. I might not even know, right? Or today I'm feeling, I'm experiencing some depression. Like I don't come downstairs in the morning with a sign that says, here's what you're going to get. You just start interacting with the person and you get whatever they're experiencing,

right? So out of nowhere, I'm snappy and irritable, right? You might be confused about what's happening and not automatically link it up to, is she upcycling? Is this ADHD emotional dysregulation? Which is a very real thing, right? And then we have to learn as a unit, as a couple, how to navigate that, how to deal with that. But I think it's hard for them because they don't always know what's coming next. So the more, yeah, the more we know, the better we can help them help us.

Yeah. And when Andrea says ADHD, she has an actual diagnosis of that. And a lot of people have comorbidities, right? Or more diagnoses. Yeah. A lot of people who with bipolar have ADHD. It's both over-diagnosed and under-diagnosed, but it can happen together. It very much does. And the emotional dysregulation is very real. That's the thing Shailene and I were talking about last week.

And I think too, we were talking about how you need to be aware, like it's good to be aware, but there's always this wiggly line that I'm just always trying to find where I'm not stuck in thinking, what is causing this? What is causing this so much so that I can stop it and eliminate it. Whereas now I try to sit back and deal with the actual feelings and emotions instead of always trying to stop it. It's going to move through my body and through my mind anyways.

So it's like this, I don't know, for lack of a better word, I don't love the word balance, but it's, Not thinking about it, overthinking it and getting stuck, but yet being aware that you are in those states. Yeah. Mindfulness. Noticing and accepting. Yeah. The accepting part. I can notice. I'm very self-aware, but the acceptance part, that's what I'm working on. What affects, how does being elevated or hypomania, how does that, or mania, how does that affect your romantic relationship?

I think there's going to be a wide range there. I think people listening would agree that when you're feeling a little elevated and you're super chatty and you want to go out and do stuff and it's great fun, partners probably love that. That probably makes relationships more fun, right? Yeah. If you're having some sort of dysphoric mania where you're really irritable and agitated and can't sit still and are yelling and are doing risky things,

that's going to make relationships a lot more difficult, right? Yeah. Personal experiences, you want to hear an embarrassing story? Always. Hello out there in podcast land. Here's an embarrassing story. So once I was elevated, but I was dysphoric elevated, right? Okay. My brain was going really fast and I was having trouble making good decisions and I was really upset and my husband did something and I can't even remember what, which goes to show it really wasn't that big of a deal.

And I got really upset and I packed my little suitcase and I got on a train and I didn't tell him where I was going. I literally ran away like I was a child. And then he got really worried and he didn't know where I was because I turned the tracking off on my phone. This is really not one of my finest moments, but that's really we're being raw and vulnerable here. That's a real example of something that happened due to a moot state.

I can relate to that. I've gone for like long walks or like a drive and I'm like, oh, he's going to miss me kind of thing. I got on a train, like a three hour train. Yeah. I think what mine always partners with is some irritability. Not only do I talk faster, I'm irritated people can't keep up. I'm irritated that they don't think that these things that in my head are of utmost importance and urgent get on board. Like, how could this not? This is huge, right?

I'll look around. I'll be like, how can you just be having your snack on your computer when this huge thing needs to be dealt with? And also... Urgency. Yeah. The sense of urgency. See, I read somewhere, I think it was a post that said, hypomania or manic ideas aren't suggestions, they're demands. That's what it feels like. One of the big things I do with the talking fast, which I become very self-absorb, and admittedly, I am an interrupter at all states.

Were we even doing this podcast? I know. No, it feels like if I don't get those thoughts or ideas out, I'm going to explode. So I do a lot of interrupting. And unfortunately, that's one of my husband's, I don't know, pet peeves. And so it's really hard for me because I say, yes, that I can work on that because it's important to you. And also, because it's a symptom, I get sometimes feeling really defeated because I can't work on it entirely. Right. Like it's not. You can't turn it off.

Exactly. And it's 23 years. It's our, it's a thing we always come back to. And same with, if you think about it, it's pretty rude to just walk into a room starting talking that he should definitely be interested in what I'm talking about. He explained to me that he's like, when I, when you walk into a room and when people start talking, I can't think my own thoughts. I stop and listen. I'm like, what? What? What is this way of being that I don't understand, right?

I can tune other people out because I'm so into my thoughts. And I was like, wow, that must be really frustrating for him that he's in his thoughts and I'm like, take over. I do something similar. And I have some of this even at baseline. So some of it may be just... Bipolar stuff that hangs around even when you're not in an episode, but I will start talking with no context. Oh, yes.

I'll start and I'll go like four sentences in and then my husband will be like, oh, okay, now I know what you're talking about, but he missed the first four sentences and I'm not interested in going back and repeating those sentences. Why wasn't he keeping up? Yeah. Rewind, right? Right. So just presuming that everybody, even just subconsciously presuming that everybody else is starting where you're starting and up to speed with you and can keep up.

And I trip on my words and he's, I didn't understand what you said. I'm like, listen faster. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, it can be really frustrating. And sometimes like I wake up and I just know, I just know it's going to be a difficult day because I just feel like there's not enough apologies for the interrupting that I'm going to do today because I can feel the motor like in my body.

And I find that hard with friendships as well, because I'm afraid they're going to think that I don't think their ideas are good. And this overlaps with my relationship with my husband and friends, because sometimes I think so fast, I've thought through all the pros and cons. And so I've come to a conclusion of what I think is the best idea or is going to work the best, but I haven't let someone else work through it. So as soon as they say something, I'm like, that's not going to work.

I seem like I'm dismissive or that I don't care or that I'm like, all my life I've gotten that I'm. Do you do that? Think through a bunch of scenarios and then think you're right. And then other people tell you and you just don't take their suggestions.

I do and I think that happens in in friendships and work relationships but there's one more thing I want to talk about in romantic relationships and that's intimacy and hypersexuality and although maybe we don't share our personal experiences here I know that people listening and I've I've done posts about this and people are like we don't talk about this enough there's actually a whole line of research that bipolar UK did I think it's Dr.

Claire Dolman about hypersexuality and bipolar it's very real and that can be very disruptive to romantic relationships even if you're not married even if you're just you're dating right especially during classic manic episodes there's other things during i mean you and i i've had one sort of classic manic episode.

Yeah things like spending lots of money that maybe you don't have as a partnership or in oh yes that's very important to bring up yeah so those things that you do that really in that moment or out of your control can be very damaging to our relationship and I just want to, I want to talk about that for a little even if you don't have a lot to share about it personally yeah for sure I don't talk about it, we talked earlier about this because of shame or anything is that I am a teacher.

And so this is out there on the interwebs. And as much as I would like to go, I'm an open book. I that's one place that I have to be careful. And so if you think that we're not going deep into it, because we don't think that it's important to talk about it's I have some constraints there. I have episodes before where guests speak to that being a part of their life. And I plan to get other people to come on here and speak to that as well. I know that can absolutely blow up relationships.

And it's such a line because you'll, I know someone that lived with bipolar disorder that was like very, what they would call themselves like traditional Christian fundamentalist, only been with one person, a woman that cheated on her husband. And it was absolutely in an unmedicated manic episode. And so even though we need to be accountable for our actions, it was something that she did there. Like, how does one forgive that and how does one move forward because it wasn't

really them and yet it's them. So that's so tricky. Yeah, that is so tricky. It can even happen within a relationship. as well so we just want to hold space for all of that yeah same as shilly i'm a therapist i already have a lot about me out there on the internet so we're gonna draw some lines around this one we see you and i definitely will have guests on that can speak to that. Thanks for bringing that up, because that is huge, right?

And huge even intimacy, like in relationships, when you're depressed. Like I said, less wanting to be intimate. And that's hard on a partner, for sure, when they feel love that way. Again, the inconsistency of it can be very jarring. Yeah. So if we talk about friendships, that song stuck in my head from I Love Lucy. Oh, yeah, you sent it to me. If anybody knows what I'm talking about, you know what I'm talking about. Friendship. Anyway, sorry. I love it. I love it. Yeah.

Let's start with you. I'm curious about, so you said you had the one friend, but I'm curious about your figuring yourself out, self of personhood. Oh, you mean when I was younger? Yeah, when you were young. Okay, I have more than one friend. Yeah. No. When you were younger, you talked about when you just found out. I'm curious how that followed through during puberty and during your high school

years. Because I didn't know. So I still operate from this, if I'm not careful to catch the thought, is that I think I like everybody more than they like me. So I was always like, always, yeah, I always thought that they liked me more than them. I always wanted a best friend, like a best friend. And so I would pour into, even though I was really social, pour into one friend. And I'm pretty sure that I overwhelmed them in the amount of time that I wanted to spend with them. How about you?

Not in high school, but I didn't have that many friends in high school, to be honest. So that wasn't my experience because I just didn't have that many friends in general. Yeah. Yeah. Was that hard or because you had your one? Did you feel okay? How did you feel inside about that? Not great. Can we interview anybody who looks back and is like, I love high school. That was the greatest. Right. I'd be hard pressed to find somebody. But no, I don't know if it was

related to bipolar. I just didn't have a lot of friends. A lot of people came into that high school with friends already. And some people were nice, but then I lost my friends from elementary school.

So high school was rough, compounded by the fact that I was still dealing with mood swings and taking medications and then I spent much of my high school time experiencing hypomania but nobody noticed they just thought it was really intense and hard working I only slept three hours a night yeah yeah just messy all around yeah I would make so many new friends in hypomania and I was so fun and I would be like the life of the party and

like I said that's when relationships would happen because I would have enough confidence to just be like, I think that you should be with me because I'm awesome. And they'd be like, you make a good case. I did have one really good friend in high school who ended up being my boyfriend in high school as well. And he was always very supportive. He was wonderful.

Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. And if you go back and listen to, I kind of didn't bring it up here because it could be like hours, but if you go back and listen to some of the very first episodes they're called I think it's like number one or two and it's called breakups and breakdowns so go listen to that and you can hear about how I was engaged when I was like 20 21 and how that person left physically and broke

off our relationship and so I think it's not only the bipolar disorder I have this, that core wound about being left, which makes sense with that compounded with the big feelings. And I think that that trickles over into friendships. And I think sometimes I'm too much for certain people. So I've had friends where we're best friends for a time and then not a big blowout happens or anything like that, but you just grow apart.

And I had huge friendship breaks when I had my first baby because I had huge postpartum hypomania, I would call it. And I didn't feel understood. I was the first one to have a baby. I didn't pour into my friendships because it's extra having a kid, right? Like your whole life and they didn't understand. And I think that I was, I didn't do a good job of keeping up and I just wanted to be surrounded people that understood that.

And so I have regrets there about just pulling way back and seeking out others in that same experience. So there's some guilt there because I think that I bailed on what could have been, you know, deeper friendships. Right. And I think that kind of highlights the need for people with bipolar to have other friends with bipolar. Yeah. Right. Why your subscriptions are so good. The chat is so good. Support groups are so good.

I have two really close friends with bipolar. You're one of them. Sorry. And I try to meet more people with bipolar, which is interesting because I think two people in a romantic relationship, both of whom have bipolar, could be very difficult. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm not saying don't follow your heart. Just know that there will be additional barriers, most likely additional struggles, so to speak.

But to friends with bipolar, I find that even though I have some of my best friends in the world who don't have bipolar, it's a little different. They can't get it. And that's not their fault. and I still love them with all my heart and soul. But having friends with bipolar is something very special. Yeah, and I didn't have any until I had like occasional interactions with people online before I started the podcast.

But like Julie, who I started the podcast with, was my first real friend with bipolar disorder. And so that was in 2020 when we became really good friends. And so literally, I've only had friends with mood disorders for four years, right? Yeah. And so it makes such a difference. And I think that's when it really solidified in my mind that it was an illness because we had similar things.

Because even though I knew all the things, I think there was still some thoughts or probably what would be defined as self-stigma that it was still something wrong with me until I met other people. They experienced that, too. And it isn't actually my personality. It isn't who I am. It's something I experience. Exactly. You are not your experiences in some ways, right? And I think that's hard.

Something I've heard people talk about as well as having had experiences when if you tell a friend, oh, I have bipolar, they might say something like, oh, my gosh, me too. The other day I was so upset. And you don't want to, that is, that's misplaced sympathy, right? They're trying to sympathize. They're trying to say, me too. I get it. I feel you. I'm here for you. They're trying to connect.

But it's also hurtful inadvertently because they don't get it and they can't get it, but they don't realize that. And that can, if you're not careful navigating that, that can break up a friendship. For sure. Because if stuff like that happens, I get quiet about it. I'm like, they're not going to truly understand the severity of it. So then I don't share, which then causes a bit of disconnect, right? Exactly. So there's some education to be done.

There's some gentle education, which is also a burden on us. But yeah, that's some stuff about friendships. Anything else about friendships?

I just love I love ending it on what you said to have at least one friend and that's where the internet is amazing and that's why I space on Instagram Andrea space I have some friends that I feel so deeply connected to to like you like my previous co-host Julie and you become closer faster because you just share this experience and so there is I haven't met very many in real life And it's very cool. I think it's actually been so healing for me.

So if you're looking for that and you're like, I don't even think there's a bipolar person in my town or a person that lives with bipolar disorder. I'm going to edit that. You may be someone that thinks that I'm the only person that lives with bipolar disorder in my entire town. It is probably not true. It's not true. Yeah. Find us on there. We always answer our messages. Sometimes it takes a while depending where we're at, but we will.

So I love that you ended on that. I think that's really great. You set yourself a bipolar bestie. Yes!

And so I think the last big category of relationships is family, which can be a really tricky subject. So family is a big trigger for you. Maybe, Nazra, you want to send us a wave and say, bye, I don't want to listen to this part, which totally understand and respect. Because family relationships are difficult even without bipolar. So add bipolar and it can just be really hard.

Yeah, definitely. And I think, too, if this is something that's really triggering, it might be more helpful to come back to the next episode where we talk about things that help with that. That might be a little bit helpful. So, yeah. Family. Let me say something about family is that bipolar is highly genetic. And there is a chance that somebody else in your family also has bipolar, diagnosed or not diagnosed.

So that can make things even more difficult right yeah trying to navigate who's gonna be there for who and when and how and at what capacity and what can they do can't they do and what are they willing to do and where's the boundary and it's a lot yeah i'm curious, because you were diagnosed very young i'm curious about did you have you had you ever heard of bipolar or in your family?

And how did your parents or caregivers that you lived with, I don't actually know this answer, but how did they react to it or how did that go? So actually, upon examination, even though I was the first to be diagnosed in my family, once we looked a little more closely, it turns out there is likely a four-generation family history of bipolar in my family, right? So that's a lot. So even though I was the first to get diagnosed, I wasn't the first to deal

with it. I was just the first to be blessed with a diagnosis and some treatment. My parents reacted the best they could. How's that? So they did the best they could. My dad had more of a pull yourself up by the bootstraps. He had to learn about it and be educated. But then eventually, once he understood, I was very blessed to have both their support and their love and their sort of unconditional encouragement, which I'm really thankful for and very aware that's not always the case.

Yeah, yeah. And did they believe the diagnosis right away? Yes. But my mom's first question to the doctor was, I'll never forget this, was, is she going to be taking these pills for the rest of her life? And the doctor who, I love this doctor, she saved my life so many times, but she was very detached and clinical. And she just goes around, yes, of course, this is a lifelong condition.

Which, okay, maybe there should have been a little padding there for this poor woman whose 14-year-old daughter showed up wanting to die, right? They believed it, but I think it took them a little while to come around to the medication and that it is chronic. I didn't know this was the 90s. What did we know? Yeah, yeah. I think the same here, doing the best they can, right? And I know my mom listens because you're an awesome mom.

And I know you did the best you could and also no clue about mental health disorders. And I am the same upon reflection in our family that there is definitely some undiagnosed and some that because of me getting help have found a diagnosis. So I was the first. Isn't that nice? Yes. And I was the first one in my family to seek that. And I think family dynamics, my parents love hard and they're amazing. And I always believed that I could do whatever I could do. But there was always

this underlying, I was the oldest, right? And I was the only girl. And also, all the rest of my family have similar personalities, in that they're, we're finding maybe that's not entirely, but they're very easygoing. My parents are like, time is not super important. And so you get this anxious child, right? And they moved all over. We didn't stay in one spot when I was like, when in my formative years when I was really young.

And so I think all of this really affected me as a young child and then also having so many brothers.

And we had a time where dad was switching his career he had to switch his career and we didn't have a university in our town and so he went away for like months at a time weeks at a time and coming back so I had to really I didn't do a great job at it but as 16 I had to really do a lot of parental things along with my mom because my dad was gone and so all those things play into it but But I think it was always joked about or I always felt like the black sheep,

but also it was like the drama queen, right? And so I didn't, even though my mom's an awesome listener, but I didn't feel fully understood. And I felt my lifelong struggle with my family is trying to convince them to understand me. And the more I try, sometimes I feed into this drama that they talk about because I won't stop.

Trying to explain it and and I think because and I've talked to my mom about this like a family of carpet sweepers and then I come along and I absolutely cannot sweep anything under the carpet and that's very overwhelming for people that are used to not talking about things and I felt like I was going to literally perish if we didn't talk about the things so I think that was probably tricky for them and so I and it's gotten so much better with age but I

didn't think my brothers understood and I actually think maybe my family was like a little bit scared of me not because I was violent but they didn't know what to do with my right it was a new experience for them big feelings yeah and I think too yeah as I can get before I would get could get bitter about that And so that's my thing that I have two children. I have two daughters. They're 17, 19 now. And we talk very openly. They know about the podcast. They've actually talked

about it. The future generation talks about mental health. It's really awesome. But yeah, there's family stuff for me in that the huge guilt of if I've passed things on. And also too, like when your mom has an anxious and nervous system, it's hard for your children to borrow calmness, right? And it wasn't always. I can say that I am a good mom and I think that people with bipolar disorder can be a good mom, but do I need to collect a little bit of a therapy fund?

Probably, as all parents should for their children, but I think we'll talk about this more in the tips and tricks. But I know that there are times that I do have to go back and apologize, and I do have to explain, like, that isn't really me, or I actually wasn't looking back. I'm not as frustrated as I came off. And one of my big triggers, and we can joke about it as a family now, but I really get frustrated. Put off by things getting wrecked or lost. And lost especially.

And I am a blamer when I'm heightened. So I am mad at everyone. I am convinced that they have either hidden it or like, where did you put it? Or I remember it exactly there. And 90% of the time, I will find it where I have put it. And so we can joke about it now, but it's a real thing where I lose it. And I'm not yelling at a person specifically, but at everything. And there happened to be people there. Yeah. Yeah.

Or panicking when we're leaving the house. So I'm sure that wasn't easy for them when they were kids, when I would just be like, instead of calmly getting out of the house, I'd be like, oh, we gotta go. So, so yeah. That's one, what you describe as one scenario in which the person with bipolar has big feelings, as you say, may be anxious, may be dysregulated sometimes. And the rest of the family is not like that. It's the opposite. It. That's one type of friction.

Another type of friction is when the whole family is like that, this high expressed emotion. Everybody has big feelings. Everybody's heightened. Everybody's anxious. Everybody's yelling. That's more my background. Okay. That's hard. That's another type of friction that I think, especially with the genetic link, that I think many people may experience making family relationships in the context of bipolar even harder.

And even mixed, right so we're like half and half too calm too and everybody says oh that must be so helpful for your daughter because you get it I'm like yes and when we're both heightened it is not awesome right so I think that it's it can be hard on on children but I just want to encourage people that I actually even though. There's one that we really rub up against each other, but we deeply love each other and they still choose to hang out with us and they know that I have their back.

And I also want to say too, I think this is such a deeply embedded stigma because I remember my doctor specifically saying, oh, when I brought him information, like I really resonate with mood disorder. And he said, you cannot have a doctor, GP. So can't be good at everything. I get that. But said, you can't be because you have a husband, two children, and a degree. So you don't have bipolar disorder because people with bipolar disorder don't have that.

And I think that if anything through this episode, even though we talk about the hard things, I want to break that. And I want to push back against that because we, with our big emotions, we have deep feelings. And we are loyal and love our people. Yes. Yes. We have so much to offer. I just went silent because I didn't know what to say to that story. Just all of my thoughts turned off because that's a terrible thing to hear. I'm so sorry you had to hear that.

And that is a huge misconception, a huge stigma. And it's not true. So it's not true that you can't have good times with your family. It's not true that you can't have meaningful friendships. It's not true that you can't find a partner who you love and who loves you back as you are. None of those things are true. It's just that we have to be self-aware enough to navigate some of the hurdles.

Yeah. And I remember... I don't have a very awesome doctor, but here in Canada, like a lot of people, you can't get a doctor. So I just stick with them because he's good at other stuff. But he also was like said something once about your poor husband. And I want to be reminded. Yeah. Sorry. And my therapist, I remember going through this with her. I want to remind everybody that a lot of people, other people have things,

right? We tend to think, oh, the person with bipolar is the problem in the relationship. They make everything hard. People bring all their issues, right? And I think also I remember my therapist saying sometimes it's a bonus to the relationship because when we are managing or when we are seeking wellness in all the ways, we're actually more self-aware than maybe our partner or our, because we're forced to be. And I don't want anybody to walk away thinking that they're a burden.

That's not a thing. It might be true that sometimes you and your partner or you and your friend or you and your family member have to work a little harder to navigate. But that could be true of so many things that people are dealing with. Physical disabilities, right? Missing limbs, anything, right? So that doesn't make you a burden. It means this is your hand of cards you've been dealt and you are dealing with it. and the people who love you are helping you deal with it.

Yeah, exactly. And I think, yeah, if you're listening and you're a partner, I think one of the biggest questions is, how can I support? And I think one of the biggest things that I say is, model taking care of yourself. Instead of trying to fix that, it's like, you go to your therapy, you make sure, do you know what I mean? And then I think learning about it as well. But yeah, I think that I get caught in the whole, I'm the problem.

And that's not always the case. And I think, I don't know, the people that, the bipolar besties that I've met, their self-awareness just blows me away. And I've learned so much, which is seeped into goodness into all my relationships. That's great. So next time, what's our docket for next time? So what we want to talk about is we just put out there all the things that could be problems or things that.

Impact relationships with living with bipolar disorder. And we didn't want this episode to be 100 hours long. So we thought that we would split it up because some people are already very self-aware of all these problems and want to hear things that we do. I have a ton of personal experience and Andrea is a thriver of bipolar disorder, but she also knows all the psychology things. Oh, wow. That's not a lot to live up to. Okay. She knows things. Okay. Andrea knows things. Let's just go with that.

And so I think that it will be a really helpful episode for me, for you, for all of us. And so go and listen to that when it comes out. And Andrea, I just want to thank you for being my poor friend.

I think too, one of the things that we'll really talk about is Andrea is and I can say this it's not something you have to live up to because you are an expert in self-stigma and I think that will can tie a lot into our next episode because I think that really affects relationships and I'm excited to hear your thoughts and your ideas because we whatsapp all the time and I'll say something and Andrea can really help me reframe it or remind me that is actually self-stigma and yeah so thank

you the self-stigma police so yes it's amazing it's amazing and yeah thank you for being here with me andrea it is always thank you for having me bipolar bestie bipolar besties and message us and we will be your bipolar bestie too yes yours is this dot is dot bipolar and mine is best that life dot bipolar we've got all we love we. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening, friends. This is Bipolar.

Thanks again for tuning in. You can find video versions of This is Bipolar on our YouTube channel. We also have all our previous episodes of the podcast on Apple, Podbean, Spotify, and Google Play. We spend most of our time on Instagram at this.is.bipolar. There is a vibrant community there where we have conversations and post different ideas and different strategies. And we'd just love for you to join us there.

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