Music. Conversations with. My name is Shaili Huggendorn and I live with bipolar 2 disorder. Sharing with others is healing both individually and collectively. Sharing our stories will educate others, bring more understanding, shed more light and smash more stigma. Our voices need to be heard. Our stories aren't over yet. This is Bipolar. Music. Hi, everyone. Before we start the next episode, I wanted to come on here and tell you this episode is a different episode. It is still a story.
It is still two people speaking that live with bipolar disorder, but it needs a huge trigger and activation warning. The story is a really hard story. There are times where we talk about drug abuse, assault. Yes. violence, jail, all of the things. This is a space where I want to tell all stories, even the hard stories. And so I want you to take care of yourself. I wanted to let people know these things trigger. There will be talk also about sexual assault that is very hard. There is description.
I felt like Gemma needed to share her full story so that we could understand where everything stemmed from. And it has been really healing for her to share and for me to hold space for this type of story. But the first big section of it actually sounds like a true crime podcast. Gemma has been on podcasts like that, but I wanted to tell her story in a different light and see the humanity through it all and talk about her mental health and being diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
It is telling the whole story. I didn't feel like there were parts I could cut out. It was just so powerful. Please take care of yourself. Stop when you need to. If this is something that triggers you, please maybe pass by this episode. I'm really nervous and excited to share this because I feel like it will free some people from their shame and And people might see themselves in part of this story and be able to see the humanity in all people,
no matter what mistakes that they've made. And I just believe in forever chances. And so this is Gemma's story. Take care of yourself. Here we go. Welcome back to This is Bipolar, Conversations With. I am so super jazzed about my guest. I have been watching her just rocket, sharing her story online. This is a big, hard story. I want to say that because I really always want someone to take care of themselves.
I wanted to also let you know I have subscriptions. So I started subscriptions on Instagram and I'm really excited because we meet up. We're a support group. There's a group of us that meet once a month and we just talk. Sometimes there's a topic. Sometimes the first place people have met another person with bipolar disorder. And then there's other content as well. If you want to join that community, it's on my Instagram at this.is.bipolar. I would love to see you there.
I just want to get started because some of my favorite interviews is where I know things, but I don't know all the things. I'm really excited about my guest and I would love for her to introduce herself. Hi, I'm Gemma, aka Bipolar Mum Journey. I'm a mental health blogger, but I've also been diving into the world of true crime because my story, unfortunately, is so horrendous. So that's it. That's me. We were just talking ahead of time how there's like an instant bond
as soon because we speak the same language. We talk fast. We're all good. Express it. Yes, exactly. And so Gemma, I wanted to start, I feel like your childhood and your upbringing really sets the stage of the chain of events that has happened in your life. And I was wondering if you could tell us just what that was like and your experience as a child. Well, Well, it wasn't the best start in life. So I was a teen pregnancy. My mum was 17. My dad was 16.
Naturally, they couldn't cope. My mum didn't have the greatest role model. She was an orphan baby. So she was adopted around the age of two and by a lady that was quite stern. She didn't have any experience herself. So it was a somewhat toxic environment. So my mum didn't have a role model to take lead from. Therefore, she couldn't help. Couldn't raise me. And then the lady that adopted her was in her ear constantly saying, oh, maybe you can't look after the baby.
I think she did try to look after me and raise me for a few months, maybe six months. But in the end, with the nagging in her ear and youth, she just said, okay, I give her away. So she gave me away to the lady that adopted her. So I was then raised by somebody that wasn't blood related.
She was older by that point. So she had more time for me, but then she put me on a pedestal and I'll be in beauty pageants piano violin dance competitions these were things that I think she wanted for herself but she was pushing through me and then as I started to wean away from those and say oh I don't want to do them anymore then the silent treatment would start and then the novelty wore off and then I just became just another thing.
My parents were drug users, unfortunately, on very hard drugs. My mum and dad split around the time I was born. So then she got into another relationship. He was also a user.
They then sold the substance and worked for gangsters all over Manchester, which is in England and it was just a very strange environment for children my mum did try to conceal everything but then as she got deeper into the underworld of drugs substance abuse she would get in such a state that we would witness it and fumes would be in the air and as children we would not it would would naturally take an effect on us so me and my sister would then be feeling mildly
high as children we'd be arguing with each other who's going to go to the door to. Take the substances to these punters. It became like our job for a little while. A lot of bad things happened during that time. My stepdad was shot in the face, not directly, but from a balcony underneath. He was shot upwards. My mum was gang SA'd. She used to invite the young man from upstairs down because my stepdad was in and out of prison.
So for company she would invite this man down a rival gang came from another part of Manchester they like I said gang SA'd her gang SA'd the guy took the substance stole her car left her with a lot of trauma but in that position you can't go to the police because you're really in the wrong for doing what you're doing so it's a catch-22 so that was something she had to deal with in silence.
And off the top of my head I can't think I've gone over the story so many times and then I block it out and so there might be more down the line but at the moment that was the, up and down of my childhood yeah I said because my grandmother a doctor grandmother raised me I was had an escape five days a week so I would only go to my mum's on the weekend whereas yes my sister was there continuously so she suffered more than I did and I don't know
what happened when I wasn't there because when I was there I would play with her I would keep her company and things like that so she probably suffered a lot more than me so I did experience a lighter side of life and maybe that's why I've managed to crawl out of the oblivion.
Yeah yeah that was my childhood really yeah wow and when I was listening I listened to one of the podcasts that you were on and I just remember thinking how you were talking about it you were like that was normalized that was what I knew and so for some of us it's like shocking right but it was your normal it was what you knew and so you went there on the weekends yes and then but your and your sister was that it was there the whole time yeah time yes and And there's stories about my sister,
but I don't want to doubt her permission because we're not on talking terms at the moment. There was an instance where my... Because they were selling substance, a guy, what you would call in the UK as a taxer, he would come and as soon as somebody had made a purchase. He would then rob them of that purchase. So my mum sent me out with my stepdad and put a big machete down the back of my trousers. I remember her. I remember it like it was yesterday.
She did the belt really tight. and so I went out as a safety net so that my stepdad didn't get found with the machete and then get a big charge in prison and I remember went to the subway and there was all these clots like blood clots on the floor and he was like oh he must be going this way and I remember thinking oh yeah he must be going this way and I've got the machete so I'm safe and then I think once I got back home back to my parents flat it kind of something dawned on
me and I became a little bit fearful and my I remember my stepdad saying oh it would have just been from a dog somebody killed a dog and that's what the dogs were from and it's only coming back home I remember that conversation now and I think wow so it must have affected me in some way but you just because so much things happened to me Shay it's just water off a duck's back now so that was another incident my stepdad Dad would have a gun. He had a revolver. I don't know.
It seemed like antique, but still, I remember playing with the revolver. It was a very dark lifestyle. I'm curious about, how it feels to share that. Clearly, you must have done a lot of work. And you mentioned it before about how it comes in and out of your memory. And I can imagine like your brain to try and keep you safe when you were young, you had to compartmentalize or dissociate. And I'm just wondering, you've just started doing a few podcasts, and you said they're more true crime.
How do you feel like when you share that story I'm just curious what like what's going on in your body how do you handle telling your big story I would say it's water off a duck's back but if you look at my body I'm sweating even now my palms are sweating pre-podcasts with my previous two podcasts I was awake at three o'clock in the morning I couldn't sleep so there's definitely some something there reliving it all this like the body tells but in
my mind i just think i'll just dust your shoulders off it's fine so yeah definitely tell a different story yeah yeah i just wanted listeners to know that because a lot of the questions i get like how do you know i even share my story or sometimes because we're comfortable with each other it looks like Like it's fun, but just to remind you that it is really hard. And I don't know about you. I'm thinking, because I've seen you on Instagram.
That my bipolar bears, they'll understand that you make jokes about things that are really hard because that's survival, right? Survival, that's it. Coping mechanisms, dark humor, laugh it off. And also, sadly, yes, I have become desensitized. So I've just switched off. I think the only people I'm switched on for are my children. And even then, when they come to me with a problem, rather than being sympathetic and empathetic, the rage will come up and maybe that's my unhealed trauma because
I will want revenge straight away. How dare you do that to my child? How dare they? When really a child doesn't need you to be like that. They need you to be soft. So that's another thing I'm working on. And that's how I know the trauma still is there somewhere. Because instant reaction as well is fight. Because that's how I was raised. Yeah. It's hard to get out of that mentality. Oh, that's powerful. And just so everybody knows, we are going to do an extra bit specifically on
motherhood and how that's worked in Gemma's life. Okay. You're going on weekends. Is this even into being a teenager? How are you functioning at school? And do people know or are you just, this is school, this is the weekend? How does that all enmesh? I'm very curious about that. So for a long time, teachers didn't really know because we were very private.
My nan always said, you keep your mouth shut and you just get on with very stiff upper lip it was only when I was in high school and my dad got shot in the face and I had to go to my high school teacher and say my dad's been shot in the face I've not spoken to them for six months you can you ring the hospitals in Manchester in England to say if he's been admitted and my high school teacher had to call my nan to check that I wasn't some teenager making making a drama of course right once she
confirmed it he bless him best teacher I've ever had and the only man in my life that didn't subject me to crap basically he rang around all the hospitals in Manchester nobody'd be admitted but what happened because it was just a graze I say a graze it was really bad but my parents patched it up because they couldn't risk going to the hospital because it was a run so did I manage school yes I did I dropped out at 15 once my
parents had come back to the hometown and I moved in with them because I was witnessing so much drug taking, substance misuse, that I did drop out. Eventually they put me in a school for dropouts. I managed to do well in there, go back to high school, do my GCSEs. I got a college place and I was doing childcare. I got a teaching assistant apprenticeship in a school for for adaptive needs. But then horrendous thing happened to me at 17 and bush, that was it. It just all fell apart.
Oh, that's just hurting my heart so much. I just felt, wow, my daughter is starting college next week and she's going in to be for her, it's called early childhood education. So I just was thinking like what your life must have been like, and do you feel comfortable just... Talking a little bit about the horrible thing that happened to you?
Yes. I won't go into too much detail, but I was at a party with some friends and then sometimes, you know, at these parties, you get these older people that come and hang around with kids. It's just one of those things. And the older people have got the money because they're more established.
This older lady came and she had the supplies, more alcohol and more other stuff she didn't like me so and she also fancied this young lad and he had a shine to me and it was a complicated situation so they said oh you go obviously not very nice but I just took it on the chin and I was like oh I've got work tomorrow anyway I'll just go so I left the party and as I was walking to my grandma's house because I thought my grandma's is close so I'm just going going to go to my grandma's I
was approached out of nowhere by a guy he was speaking like broken English I couldn't really tell he said something about a lighter and I said oh no sorry I don't smoke and I've tried to scurry away he's then grabbed me and I can even remember the smell of his jacket it was this brown leather jacket it was just it was hideous he's grabbed me some Some other guys come in the process.
They've dragged me over the road, back over the road. And I'm thinking, it's got to be a prank because they're dragging me back to the party. So I was trying to keep myself calm about it. But no, they didn't take me back to the party. They took me into another set of bedsits, flats, apartments. They've dragged me upstairs. Sorry. Don't ever be sorry. It was two flights of stairs into this tiny room.
And then out of nowhere oh just let me just have a little drink, hold on yes of course, take all the time you need out of nowhere multiple men have come into the room, two of them have held me down and they've just swapped and took it in turns, So sorry that happened to you. They were just evil. They were evil, Shay. I'm sorry. Oh, of course. I didn't say that. You didn't. You did not. And I thought they were going to kill me. Oh, I can imagine. And when they let me get dressed, it was a relief.
And he marched me down the stairs with my collar. and this guy came out from underneath from another apartment and they've shooed him in there. And I just thought, if I'd known he was there, maybe I wouldn't scream, maybe I wouldn't, I don't know. And then they've let me go through the door, but it pushed me out and I've just thought, just walk fast and I'm walking fast up the street and the next thing I know, I just hear this car.
Revving up next to me and he's just get in get back in or something like that and I just thought this is my time to scream and I was just screaming and I managed to get home.
I was just home that was it and I just thought forget it just forget it put it to the back of your mind and I ripped all my clothes off and I got in the shower and I went to bed and then in the morning my mum was my little mum and I know she weren't the best character in the world and she was suffering but I knew I could trust her to do the right thing and she just said what's wrong, and then I told her I've been raped by multiple men and that was that she just
thought the police and the police came out and they interrogated me which you have to it's completely understandable I get it one time two time and a third time and because my story didn't change they looked for discrepancies in the story and because it hadn't changed they they were like okay this girl's telling the truth but you have to do it I understand the process you have to interrogate the victim and they went there they went to the bedsits and they'd gone they'd
left they'd fled fled the seats of there right there there's a proof but it turned into a huge investigation and we have a thing in the UK it's a news series.
Somewhere where you put criminals that you can't find because social media wasn't the thing back then it was all on there and it without crime watch they would never have found these men and I can't remember if they found them all or just some of them but they found them and I took them to court and I did everything they told me to do Shay I wanted to go by video link I wanted to were appearing caught by a video link and they pressured me to go by a curtain and I could hear these men.
Oh. I could hear them talking. And I had to listen to them say, from an interpreter, that I agreed to it. And I had to listen to it. I'm sorry, I've never got this deep on it. But I had to listen to all of that directly. Their barristers accusing me of agreeing to it. It was just awful.
Oh and you were just a teenager i was 17 and then from there my life deteriorated, this is why i'm really trying to end the stigma on users because even though i'm so sorry shay no take a breath even though my mom and my stepdad were users i still was achieving my goals and I was going to be a teaching assistant just adapted needs.
After that I was so angry I got into a fight in a pizza parlor and I threw a milkshake bottle and it hit a boy from school and then I had to charge my first criminal charge of battering had to drop my course because I couldn't work the kids oh so it ruined my life shape right still to this day and you're still standing and you're here it's such a hard story to tell but i just want this place to be a safe space to tell the whole truth
right i am sure there are others out there that didn't have a voice and still can't speak of things and so please know, how much I admire you and how brave that I think you are. It just seems like you didn't get the start you deserved, which snowballed. And we're going into the next part of your story. And your grandmother, your adopted grandmother, was there male in the picture or grandfather?
No. so you don't he died when my mom was sick so she witnessed his cancer deterioration so that played a big part on her mental health as well so she had to watch him die but played a big part in my mom's addiction too yeah and I just think something that just really struck me how you spoke on the other podcasts and even like your voice and your body language when you talk about your mom I just I just think it's so beautiful that you have compassion and that you understand
that there's so much judgment and there's so much thoughts that it's a huge personal flaw, that it's a huge choice. We live with what's considered a serious mental illness. I just think that it's really powerful how you tell that she had trauma and to just explain that because it would be easy even for me on the outside to just make your mom a villain, but she had trauma too. There was mental health issues there too.
And so it's all just so very hard. And I think that's one of the reasons that I'm here. And we were talking earlier and you said why you're here is just to shine light on it for people that don't struggle with mental health or mental illness, just to understand how hard and horrible this is and how it's not a choice. It looks like from outside that it's a choice, but if it was something like heart disease or cancer or whatever, you would have sympathy and compassion.
But because it's mental health and because it looks like a choice to have an addiction, I think that you hold a lot of capacity to be able to hold both. It was horrible and it really affected your life and it was completely unfair. And where your parents are coming from. Yeah. Wow. So I imagine this has made you a very tough in one way you said with the rage, but also a very vulnerable teenager in relationships and with men.
And I'm wondering, so you have this charge, I'm assuming you feel like your life is like over. What do you do? Can you tell me what happened next? So I took up a business course instead and got a place in a cell phone shop to win sales. It wasn't really for me. It wasn't rewarding enough. I tried as best as I could. I was at the age where it had been nearly a year since it happened and I was ready to get into the dating world.
But because of what happened to me, people said, oh, like they didn't want to be near me because they accused me of lying when something like that happens to you you shouldn't be classed as damaged goods but boys do be like oh she's damaged goods now so stay away and the only person that really showed me much attention was the guy that wasn't maybe the greatest guy in the world he wasn't the greatest guy in the world at all again he came from a dysfunctional
background he knew my mother was single mother he was the only one to give me attention at that period of time and I just slipped into a very serious relationship straight away. My mother, bless her, she did try to get him away and get him away from the house, but he would call her derogatory terms that people call users. I'm not going to repeat it because I don't like it. She shooed him off from the house multiple times, but then he got into my head.
Oh, you're the best thing since sliced bread.
He would turn up at my work with a little something thing and then I think after a couple of weeks he got me a ring and he just got in my head and I was like oh yeah great the love bombing phase and I just fell for it hook line and sinker and then from there I ended up he was in a house share and I ended up moving in the house share and I wasn't in the best place mentally I like to have a drink after work and I like to, get rowdy and party and have a good time but you
mix two people like that it's not a good combination so we would have altercations I would want to be happy and merry and talk to people he didn't really like me talking to certain people so then he would tell me don't talk to them people and I would say you can't control me then we would have an argument there was one incidence where he.
Had an argument with a boy that I went to school with he grabbed two knives from the kitchen burst out of the flat the house share with these knives to i don't know what he was planning to do i think he was planning to stab him obviously because why would you take two knives out of the, place anyway a neighbor saw him called up the police came and he'd put the knives away by this point but then he wouldn't take the rap for it so when the police came he didn't say it was him he just let us both
go and get arrested for it so then that was my other so then it was possession of offensive weapon and because i told the police officer maybe to it isn't me you need to f off then got a charge for something against a police officer so anything it was just a catalog of things from there everything he did i was in the same place at the same time guilty by association so anything he was charged with I was charged with and if you look at our criminal records I can't
post his for legal reasons but I've posted my own on my Instagram they are like his is a lot worse than mine and it's even more worse now when since we've not been together so my criminal history stems from an abusive relationship all the time I threw a milkshake bottle and it hit a boy unfortunately so that was that and then it just escalated it was It was...
The control, turning up at my work, phoning my work, telling me I'm a rubbish mother, abusing me in front of my son that week because in this process I ended up pregnant and gave birth. At the birth, he was in my ear. This is a man that's diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder. So, you know, that comes with its own issues. I was trying to give birth. It was 24 hours. They couldn't get the baby out. They wouldn't give me a C-section because I was too far into the process.
He's in my ear saying, why is your mum here? She's taking over. And then my mum's there upset, crying. I'm trying to look after my mum. I've got him in my ear. I'm giving birth. They've had to cut me open to get the baby out. The baby's dead. It was just such a horrible experience. And then once they'd left, my mum had left because she's quite an intense person too.
My ex had left and I was just in the hospital with the nurses and they were showing me how to care for the baby if I wanted to breastfeed and they were just so kind to me say that it was the kindest experience I'd ever had oh sorry it pains me to say it because it's those moments in my life the genuine moments of care from the midwife team and the nurses I haven't had many genuine experiences when it comes to love or affection or attention. There's always been an ulterior motive with it.
So it's those little moments that I can pinpoint. It's only been about a handful. Obviously, my kids give me love. It's different when it's from somebody else. Yeah when all the people that you trusted hadn't taken care of you in the way you need and you're, I have two children. It's such a vulnerable time, even giving birth, right? You mentioned a lot of the things like a lot of people, I think, again, just all these stigmas in your life that people are like, why would a woman stay?
Why would a woman have a child with someone? And just if people read out about literal narcissistic personality disorder, it's a really tough mental illness and also what you're saying is it's a diagnosed thing there's a lot online where we're taking and i feel very strongly about this and i imagine you do too by looking at your instagram that we are using a lot of actual serious mental health terms for things that aren't right yes you might have a little bit of
a controlling or someone might really self-involved and super confident doesn't necessarily mean and i think that, it's so hard when they take the words and it becomes normalized and you were experiencing the true form of what it was like to be with someone with that disorder.
Well, Carrie, narcissistic traits, we can all be a little bit egotistical or we can, maybe we want to know where our partner's going because we're out of caring, but narcissistic personality disorder is completely different to just having traits and people are using the word and throwing it around but when you've been subjected to narcissistic personality disorder, it's very serious and especially if the person doesn't own it if somebody is
willing to go to the mental health team to get the diagnosis narcissistic they can work with it but if you're undiagnosed as well or you're diagnosed and you're not willing to accept that diagnosis is directly for disaster. We have to accept our diagnoses if they are correct. Yeah, for sure. I just can't imagine, like, you're vulnerable and vulnerable and then end up in the situations that people around you are judging you. You said it's out there, these things that happen.
One thing I forgot to ask, and I can imagine that everybody's, like holding onto their seats were the evil men that assaulted you, were they convicted? No, they weren't convicted. They, they got away with it. They got away with it. So they got away with it on the basis of saying that I agreed, I agreed to it. How does that not, that must have just been so devastating that you were, that you told, that you actually went and I can't imagine.
So did that affect, are you still near the town that you grew up in? Was there judgment? There was a lot of judgment towards me. It was just horrible. It really was.
So there was a lot of backlash for me. and also speaking if I hadn't have spoken out it would have gone unnoticed but then it wouldn't I would have internalized it so I had to and I knew but maybe by me taking them to court maybe they thought twice about doing it to anybody else and that's what I keep in my brain that's my strength I'm like maybe they wouldn't want to be remanded in prison because they were remanded in prison until it went to court so maybe
maybe they might think twice about ever doing that to anybody else so that's what I keep that's my strength yeah that's powerful I can't imagine how that would feel like you've actually told someone so I think that's really beautiful because you're probably right like it changed something I think that even hearing this I'm sure there's people that something happened that they hadn't come forth and just seeing that that you did despite
the outcome I think you touched on something really important that, it was something for you. And I'm so grateful that your mom went to bat for you. Yeah, she was my rock. She was my absolute rock. And yeah, she was just, she had my back.
All the way through and she was like we're getting the police and she was just great and i will never fault her for that i hope people are listening that maybe they know someone that hasn't that they've judged and hasn't received love begging people listening to try and see people's heart and humanity and what they may have been accused of or even what they've done that's yeah and so So we're going to lead into, oh, let's just take a breath together. Oh, sorry. It's deep. I know.
No, don't ever be sorry. This is a space where real and raw honesty. And I just want people to know that you wanted to tell your story. I saw that. I hope you're okay right now. Yeah, I'm good. I just want the monsters to know that they didn't break me.
I'm here and I'm me. me and you didn't break me yeah yeah yeah and you're all and you're awesome oh thank you yeah i'm trying we're just winging it we're winging it shay oh for sure do we know what we're doing 100 no but we keep showing up we keep showing up that's we're going to lead into another hard part of your story yes sorry guys it doesn't stop no we're sorry i wish i knew you and was like Like, come over, come and live with me.
Yeah. So you're in this relationship and now you're extra bonded to your narcissistic partner because you've had a child together. That was, that was a manipulation tactic on him. So he would always use our baby as a weapon. He would pick the baby up if we were arguing as if it was his possession.
There was a time he threw me on the bed and the baby, I'd just changed my baby be and he threw me on top of the baby on the bed and my baby would have only been about two weeks old and I've said oh screamed and then he has dragged me because we lived in a flat he apartment he dragged me into the bathroom threw me in the bathroom even though it was his fault that he'd thrown me on the bed picked up the babies oh mummy's a monster he's like
cradling the baby making out I'm a monster he was just abusive mentally physically as we got further into the relationship and he secluded me by moving jurisdiction so he moved me away from my mother who was the only support I had and that's when he really started to beat me.
Black and blue so that's when the beating started and then he would go to work leave me and my lockers me and my son in the flat so there was no way to get out I couldn't even open the windows does had no phone he'd take the phone the laptop keys everything so we were stuck and it was just terrible it was really terrible and then should I get on to the night in question yeah yeah if you feel comfortable everybody know in the process of our relationship
we'd made friends with somebody else a couple of people we'd been to the zoo and then I can't remember if it was the same day all Well, the day after... On that day, I'd had black eyes from a previous beating. He'd bitten my cheek, their jaw. The boy that was with us saw the black eye and he was...
Talking to me about it as he'd done it and this and that and we'd had a conversation, and then we'd gone out for dinner and some drinks and yes we were with our children we shouldn't have been drinking but you know how it is you have a glass of wine and one leads to two and then the girl that I was with was like oh let's leave the lads.
Our partners and whatnot with the kids we'll sneak off to the pub and have a drink the bar, and I was thinking no this it's a bad idea it's a bad idea let's not but anyway she convinced me she said oh let's just say we're going to the supermarket so I said to my partner oh, we're just going to go to the supermarket he was like yeah and then we sneak to this pub and I was like we'll just be quick and it was just chaotic the the guy came and said oh
no your boyfriend wants you back you better get back and then as we were coming back he's come out and found us near this pub and altercations took place the girls hit the my ex my partner at the time and said oh we know you hit your girlfriend so they started pushing and shoving then the boys jumped in and then I just in a blind panic thought oh my gosh I'm going back I'm going back into the flat because the children are there I've walked in there's a knife on the floor I'm like that's unusual.
What is that doing there? It can only be him. So I thought he's going to kill me. So I've gone and got the knife and I've just, I don't even know what's come over me, Shane. I can't explain it, but I thought it's either him or me. And I've just gone in his arms and his hands. My friends got in the way. I've accidentally put the knife into him. I've come from this rage, come out of this rage and thought,
what are you doing? I've ran back into the flat. I've put the knife in the sink, covered in blood. My ex has run off to the local, it's called a working men's club for veterans. He's gone there. A lot of it is a complete blur. All I remember next is armed police come in, subduing me at gunpoint on the floor, get on the ground, get on the effing ground. So I've put my hands behind my head. I'm laying on the floor and I'm just thinking, oh my gosh, what's going on?
My son has woken up and seen me in that position and I just then thought what have you done, why didn't you get him out you've ruined his life you've ruined this boy's life you know what and I just blame myself I just blame myself for everything and then that was it I was arrested for attempted murder they took me to the police station they've stripped me of my clothes sat me in a boiler suit, which was paper thin. And I'm sitting in a police cell now.
The desk sergeant, which is an officer that sits at the desk to book everybody in, all the new inmates, was sitting there. She's parading every police officer to my cell. Oh, look at this little girl, but a wooden mel. Look at her charge, just making a mockery of me. And I'm thinking, I don't know where my son is. Is my ex going to die? Have I killed him? Is this a murder charge? What's going on?
And she's just making fun of me. luckily he came out of surgery and it was only say only it was the charge was lowered to GBH with intent wounding with intent section 18 so it just means you've used a weapon or a item to cause effect and damage so I thought okay so this could be like eight years eight years max maybe.
I'm not sure how much that charge carries and I was sitting in cell and I thought I've done it I'm just going to own up to it so I was like just get me in get me an interview I'm going to come guilty that's it go luckily the solicitor said got hold of me I was waiting for my solicitor and I couldn't be bothered to wait any more Shay I just wanted to get the process started but she said to me there's so much back history here because you've got arrested so many times for domestic violence
and beating if you go guilty now they're going to stick the biggest charge on you that they possibly can so she said go no comment and let me handle this situation so I did I went no comment and they released me on bail I always say remand I get confused it was bail they released me on and then I was on bail for GBH within 10 still looking possibly at eight years and I went back to my flat I opened the door I didn't know what to expect naturally sorry
naturally I was hoping to see my son yeah but I knew that was a pipe dream and there was just blood everywhere and little stickers little green arrows where the forensic team had to mark where all the blood was, I went and let you go home they let you go home to that that's wild.
And all I could feel was it meant shame because all of that was me and now I was the monster for a minute, and it was just horrendous it was really horrendous and then that night I went to bed and the next day I just took an overdose, because I thought if I haven't got my boy what's the point, and my auntie was talking to me and I said that's it I'm going I'm gone that's it that's the end but luckily she called the ambulance
and the ambulance got the I think it was the fire brigade or the police to kick the door in and they whisked me off to hospital and luckily everything was fine and I was fine and I went through a whole process there. But that was my lowest moment. But he turned me into that monster shape. I couldn't take any more. I couldn't take any more beads. I couldn't take the mental abuse, which leads me now to my bipolar diagnosis.
And that's why at 26, they diagnosed me as bipolar because they said the ongoing mental abuse of not being able to breathe and relax relaxing constant fear but I don't fly they said that I could have damaged something yeah my bipolar yeah yeah wow and we were talking about that earlier before we press record we know that that it's a hereditary illness and that you can be predisposed and things can bring it out and And just how confusing it is to know, was it predisposed?
And this spiral of horrible things happened to you brought it out or changed your brain. And we're both not doctors, so we don't know for sure. And before we get into a little bit of what it was like to be in jail. Looking back, can you see, now that you know about mania and depression, can you see that woven in or is it such a blur and overwhelm?
Looking back, what can you see? looking back i would say bipolar didn't have anything to do with that instant absolutely not it was alcohol induced it was trauma related and stress related so i don't want to stigmatize bipolar and i don't want people to think that people with bipolar are running around committing crime because it's not the case because since my diagnosis i've never been in trouble with the law so bipolar wasn't to play there it was it was a woman who snapped because
she couldn't take any more and that was it yeah it was because i think it would be easy for people just to.
Blame that we were talking about how you know on tv there will be these horrible things and it's always because of that and not to say for it is just your story it definitely comes into play and we know that there is bipolar anger and bipolar rage and i hate talking about it but i have a lot of anger in certain episodes i think it's really important to note that as well because i I would hate for people to write it off as, oh,
it's just that when, yeah, you can see the series of events, how that could happen. You went to jail. Yes. So I was on bail in the process for around eight, nine months. Then I went to court. In that process, I found a new relationship. I ended up pregnant. I know it's not great and it sounds absolutely terrible and people can judge me for it. I understand it was a silly decision. However, he's here and he's amazing, my son.
And I'm still in the same relationship 15 years later. So it's a success for me. So I was sentenced. I went to court and because I was pregnant, there are mother and baby units in the prisons. Rather than give birth outside of prison and try to get the baby in with me, it was going to be easier for me to remand myself, myself get the process started and give birth in prison so when I went for my court date I said to the judge remand me I'm guilty because before first I was going not guilty.
For other factors on the solicitor's advice. I said, look, I'm guilty. Get this process started. Send me to prison. And the judge said, we've never had somebody say, send me to prison, but yes, let's go. He respected my early guilty plea and off I went to prison and there I was.
So I was pregnant. So I was on the regular wings with regular inmates trying to get a place on the mother and baby unit because you have to apply and usually for violent crime serious violent crime you won't be placed on the mother and baby unit because they had to do extensive research into my crime and they saw that it was a highly domestic relationship there was so many previous beatings I'd never done anything like this before any criminal
history I had a bar the battery recharge was to do with him. So they safeguarded me. I went through social service checks. They saw how I was with kids. Somewhere along the line, I had an altercation with one of the prison officers and then he took a vendetta against me because I'd made a comment about him being a bit greasy looking, which was a stupid comment, but I was pregnant.
I didn't mean it. It was something you just say it off the cuff, but then it got repeated back to him and then he had it in for me I'd gone to my midwife appointment she'd found out that there was something in my urine I don't know the terminology but I needed to get to hospital straight away so then they've shackled me.
In handcuffs took me in the car got me to the hospital I'm in handcuffs all the mothers are looking at me I've asked can you release me and they said no because you're a high profile prisoner you're a violent offender I can't release you just yet so I'm sitting there handcuffed to my by a prison guard. Once they knew the baby was in distress, then they could release me, and it came back that his heartbeat was so low, he was barely hanging on.
They've released me and I'm on the heart monitor. They've induced me, so I'm waiting for the baby to be born. I've gone to give birth. The switchover's happened with the prison guard, so now I've got two different prison guards that I don't know. I'm trying to get hold of my boyfriend, but because I'm a prisoner, the midwife and the nurses are a little bit judgmental, not really doing it as quick as they would do for somebody that wasn't in that position.
So I understand it. I don't take offence. my boyfriend's turned up the baby is now nearly out but they can't they've got like a plunger of on two so it's a suction cup to pull the baby out and his head's come out but it's blue and all you can see is thick layers of the umbilical cord all around his neck so they've said stop pushing so I'm stopping pushing all I can see is a blue baby's head the cord she's cut the cord one and And then again, two, again, three, again, four, four times.
He's come out. They've ruffled him up. He's breathing. They've put him on me. Then that's it, flat out, flat lined on my chest. They've grabbed him, resuscitated him, suction cut his mucus out because he'd opened his bowels in my womb, and that's what was showing up in the urine. He's got jaundice from being premature. They've rushed him off, and I don't know where he is. He's in intensive care, and I haven't got any access to him. I don't know where he is.
And you know how important it is to bond with your partner Yeah. Child, in the first moments of life. And I was robbed of it. Obviously, you had to go to intensive care, but I was robbed of those first few moments. And some could say, well, it's your own fault. You shouldn't have been in prison, but we still deserve to be mothers regardless. Yeah, you're still human. You're still a mom. Yeah.
And then in this whole situation, this prison officer that's got the vendetta against me He's trying to stop my mother and baby place. So he's, don't let her on. She's a violent offender. They've seen through it and they've given me a place. They gave me a place on the mother and baby unit. Even somewhere, it's all a blur, Shay, but somewhere I've got my baby back. I'm breastfeeding. Although it's not ideal, I've got my baby. I've got my place. I'm going there. We're together. We're a unit.
I've got to the room, the cell. They don't call it a cell. Because there's a baby in there. So they tried to make it like nice, nicer term. He's burst into my room. I'm breastfeeding my baby and he's gone greasy. Am I? Because that was the comment I'd made. And then from then on, Shay, he just added infamy. I tried to...
Say to him oh it wasn't a nasty term it was like a cool term a street term for being cool and then he was like oh okay so now she thinks it's cool so he's got it in for me in a different way now he thinks i think he's cool because i've just gone into survival mode so i've had to be nice to be not be bullied yeah and then he's took it too far and he's just predatory skills at myself at at my door, at my room, all the time, making excuses.
Do you need any nappies? Do you need any pampers? Do you need this? Do you need that? And then one day he's just, I can't even remember the conversation and how it even arose. And then he's just grabbed me, kissed me. My son is in the cot.
So not only have I got this whole situation of giving birth in prison, I've now got an officer who's coercing me into this relationship where I cannot go to the governors and the higher team because there's a relationship here and even if he got moved on, they would still put me an extra charge on for I don't know how it all works. So my only survival skill was take it as it is, just get on with it, you'll be out soon. So again, just a survival mechanism and I've had to do that a lot.
Been in situations my whole life where maybe I've gone to the club and I didn't want to be in a situation should but because you've gone home with them you've put yourself in that position so you feel the guilt to carry on with the intimacy but when you get home you realize that you really didn't want that but you've put yourself so to me I've been in that position so it was a case of just get on with it it'll be over it was just just the life I led and
now this is why raising a daughter I would never raise her like that but I had nobody to raise me so for me it was always survival mechanism.
That's all that I did so I went that went on for a good four or five months I think and where is your boyfriend in all this is he still your boyfriend can he visit yeah how did that so he can visit and he could also take the baby on trips out so the bit my baby yeah our baby was going out I say their baby it's just it's easier to say he would take the baby out with him on weekends they let family visit so he would come in but I couldn't
tell him what was going on because if he was to kick off with this officer which naturally he would want to. More or less end his life if he would have known then then that's going to put my position my partner in a position to lose his career to get a charge himself to not be able to access our son.
So I was in such a difficult situation and I also had to look at this man knowing what was happening in so it was awful and even this officer even on my family visits with my partner he would just burst in and sit down and be there it was almost it was like again that controlling behavior putting you in a position where you can't you're frozen always but unfortunately for me Shay because I'm such a happy bubbly person regardless of everything and I'm I don't
want anyone to ever feel how I feel so I'm always nice to people I give them the time of day I'm very nice I could be extra nice sometimes people do take it the wrong way and also you being bipolar or whatever you want to be you don't want to be seen as the weird person so you become extra nice and extra friendly and people do take it the wrong way sometimes and it's it's such a difficult situation to be in and I think that it's what I would really like people to hear from your story is that of
all All these things happened. And you take complete accountability for the things that happened. And also, you see that it isn't who you are, right? It isn't who you are. You bring up a really important situation, even though you've been violent and you've gone to jail, can just see it's not you. You said like a blind rage. You can see how these things happen. And I think that.
It brings up also the vulnerability. I think sometimes people don't see the weaving of the vulnerability and people taking advantage of your vulnerability and just not knowing anything else. I was just struck by how vulnerable you were, even when you were in jail. And I just feel so much for you. It's an important story to tell as that there are hard stories out there and people that live with bipolar disorder.
And I think that those stories need to be told too. We mask when we haven't had trauma and we have bipolar disorder. People that have made really hard choices also deserve love and care. And yeah, I just- I just want people to get their stories out there. That's why I'm sharing my story because I don't want people to internalize the shame of bumps in the road because that's all they are.
They're just bumps in the road just experiences yeah it molds who you are a little bit it's not who you are that is not your entirety your diagnosis isn't and the bumps in the road aren't but by sharing our stories raw and unfiltered people can connect more we've got to stop glamorizing and putting on this front of oh we're such a we're the 2.4 family everything's perfect look at us on our family holiday that everybody is living in this delusional world and life isn't like that life is
hard and every day is a struggle to get up sometimes and we've got to stop being like oh I'm so happy and I'm so great we have to share those terrible moments too especially with mental health on our road days we don't even want to be parents we don't even want to speak please don't speak to me we have to share every angle of it for sure and I'm just amazed that that stuck together. And you started in a place of trauma and additional trauma. That's a really powerful story.
How long were you in jail? I was only in there for a year. I was sentenced to 2.5 years. And I did a year in there. And then they let me out eventually, even though this prison officer tried to get my early release cancelled. He phoned my probation worker and said, oh she doesn't want to be released. Luckily, my probation worker was like, who doesn't want to be released? And she fought for my HDC in the end and I did get out.
Then when I went to probation, I didn't even tell her at first straight away because I just wanted to forget it. But then he turned up at my hostel and I was like, you can't be here. You need to go. What are you doing here? And then he went, he did go in the end. He was like, oh, if I go, you'll never see me again. I was like, I don't want to see you again. What are you doing here? I went to the probation worker and she said, look, I just want to touch upon something.
I had this very strange phone call and the prison officer said, oh, he didn't want your early release. And I was like, yes, and there's a possibility I could be pregnant because of what he'd subjected me to. She was like, I knew it. She goes, I just knew it. And that was just women's intuition. So she'd marched me to the police station. I've told the police officer, but he's, what was it, SA?
And I was like, it wasn't SA. say it was like coercion but anyway I got it out there and he was prosecuted my partner's family didn't want me to go to court because they didn't want my name to be dragged through the papers because should I have attended it would have been up in main papers Shay and I didn't want to be plastered all over there they didn't want I didn't mind I wanted to get it get him out of office so I would
have done it for that reason but I didn't go so he was able to say oh it was only a. Can I say sexual act? It wasn't full intimacy. So he was able to get away with it with a slap on the wrist, basically, as community service. But at least he was out of office. But he had the nerve to turn around and say, I was the seducer. Who is the seducer in that situation, Shay? A mug power. A girl in prison or a prison officer with ultimate power carrying the keys. Come on, it's not rocket science.
Yeah. Yeah, of course, let it go. But narcissistic charm again, Shay, he was able to flutter his eyelashes at the female judge and she was wooed over, swooned over him, let him off. Women can be really taken in by these narcissists. Even now, I attract narcissists, even to this day, and still fall for it and be like, oh, he's really nice. And then I'm like, no, he's not. He's a narcissist. Don't fall for it. Yeah.
And especially if we're experiencing hypomanic and manic symptoms, you also exude this presence that attracts. I'm really, although we have so far to go, like five years ago, I wouldn't have known what narcissism is. By you telling your story and others telling their stories, we're actually starting to be able to understand and and look for the red flags. Nobody talked about red flags when I was dating people, right? I was reading somewhere teenagers and girls between the ages of,
I'm not going to quote anything because I'm hard. I don't science. I don't remember the facts. But the main point was that being a teen is one of the vulnerable times of your life. And then you add in a history or mental health disorder, or in your case, both, it just makes you really vulnerable. And I think people don't see folks with bipolar as vulnerable. We're always seen on TV as this or that and make. Making hard choices. And there can be both and, right?
You can be making really bad choices and sometimes you're not all there, right? I don't have a story like yours, but sometimes when I feel really angry, it's this weird feeling where it comes over and I know now that I'm treated, I can actually know and do things. But before treatment and before medication, complication is just, it's almost like I knew mean words or harsh things were coming out of my mouth and I was treating people awful, but I couldn't stop it.
It's just like you're just trying to exist. And I think that's really hard for people to understand. I was going to ask you about looking back and seeing episodes, but that would be hard for you because you're just in one continuous trauma, the ups and downs. You wouldn't be able to distinguish if that was bipolar or if that was just the reality of your seemingly impossible life. In all this time that we've talked about, had you been to therapy?
Had you thought of mental health? Had anyone in your family? Was this talked about?
No, I didn't even know anything about mental health. I just thought it was either you were crazy or you weren't that was the terminology you were crazy or you weren't and I always knew there was something wrong with my mother she was, highly paranoid and I just put that down to substance abuse I know I'm like oh no there was definitely something wrong so yeah I think I didn't know anything about mental health no absolutely not and it wasn't until
I went to the doctors my partner was working away way and I would just be in floods I would either be high or low and in the prison they did query, oh you're always up or you're down there's no in between and so they were the first people to really see it and then I just remember carting my double buggy my tandem buggy with the children in it and just turning up at my GPs and say look that I was just in floods of
tears I was like something isn't right with me I don't know what it is but something isn't right and then he started going through all the diagnoses and stuff and they first said.
Schizophrenic and then he said no the delusions are not high enough it's I think it's bipolar and that was the first I'd ever heard about it yeah it wasn't really too much on google you can't just look it up on google that was the start of my journey and so you brought yourself to the doctor you knew that there was stuff going on and this is once you're out yeah did you accept your diagnosis right at first or were you like what is going on how did that play out I think I did accept it.
I think it was a relief for me because I was like, okay, there's something. It's not just everything I've been through and I'm never going to be healed or fixed. It was like there is something chemically, a chemical imbalance. So it was a mild relief for me. Yeah. But then down the line, I would say I haven't got bipolar. I haven't got bipolar because I think my partner as well, he didn't really know how to handle it. So he would constantly throw it in my face. Oh, you're bipolar.
You're bipolar. bipolar it's all your fault he was young we were young we've grown together so we don't blame him for that now so it was easy for easier for me to say I haven't got bipolar there's nothing wrong with me I've admitted it and denied it for a long time up until the last few years where I've solidly just said yeah this is me how long has it been since you like when you were in jail to now.
2010 14 years yeah okay years I've been out yeah yeah and I never went yeah yeah yes that's a story yeah you keep on going on and what did we're gonna go we're gonna talk about the whole motherhood part after this what did adapting back to life outside look like like breaking the patterns did your partner live somewhere else like how were those first few years of just being out and you said you were pushing the the buggies did you have both your children what did I look
like I had just my son at that point okay a little while I was actually shopping Shay to go back in because I thought oh I must be a loose cannon I'm going to end up back in there so I was shopping all the clothes and tracksuits that you that I wish I'd had the first time around I was like I'm preparing myself this time so I honestly thought that I was unhinged and that I would end up in back in there but what I didn't realize is the only reason I was unhinged is because I was going through
this really toxic relationship and that was what made me. Unhinged and it's to get through my license and stay out and it was hard to adapt because you get Get used to the routine. And also I made some really good friends in there, Shay. Friends that I'm still friends with to this day that have gone on to finish their degrees, that have got amazing jobs, amazing lives. Not everyone comes out of it.
For the best but a lot of us do we do use it as a learning experience and grow from it so it did take me a while to adapt. I'm assuming with now husband that was your boyfriend then wasn't into the same things like you only ever lived like in this lifestyle and you grew up in this lifestyle how was it to go out and how did you not choose to go back to what you knew?
I didn't want to ruin another child's life so my son was my second son he was my driving force and I just thought that's it now knuckle down and try your best to obviously get contact I was trying all through prison to get contact with my first born who we share with her ex whom he kidnapped it's cut off all the contact with my mom I've got a big report on it and I tried my best to contact I would turn up to court with bags of toys and presents and gifts and they wouldn't
show up. And then he'd move jurisdiction. And just every time the court got my contact going, he would move again. We wouldn't know where he was. And in the end, Shay, I just had to walk away from it because it was causing me more damage. And I couldn't concentrate on raising my son and then daughter in that whole process. So the driving force was I'm not going to ruin another child's life by toxicity.
It was easy because it wasn't a toxic relationship it was right flowed quite easily of course we had our ups and downs we were young we were dating trauma and his trauma we split up we saw other people so it hasn't been a smooth run in 15 years we've had our own death but the main thing is we've got through it and we've got three children now and it is a success story yeah it is it is. Such a success story and I'm wowed by, yeah, by your strength. I think that you're amazing.
I did want to talk a little bit more about how you deal with and dealt with. Your bipolar disorder. So you said at first it was a relief. Then it's like, I'm not Emma. I don't know about this. And I don't know about you. I had so much stigma about my own illness or about mental illness because of the outer world. I knew everybody else did, but I had it too. So I remember thinking, I'm not that, or I'm not, I was terrible too.
I'm like, I'm not them because I hadn't seen people like you and me talking about it. Right.
How many years into it, where you were like okay I have bipolar disorder I need to learn how to manage it differently how did that happen I would say I've only mastered it in the last four years I think I was still in a state of denial I was still adamant that my now partner of 15 years was trying to push this diagnosis on me I was like just making excuses because you maybe you're messing up and you're causing me stress and I was thinking it was him and then once
I did all the research I possibly could I was like okay you are you are bipolar because I can have these when hypomania is one for me and I have these ideas and I run with them Shay and I've had celebrities there was a one celebrity in London and he was running for mayor. We have the mayor elections and I... In hypermania said oh i'm going to be a candidate for this mayor sounds about right.
So i've emailed and i've done all the business bots and bobs and i've was on the toilet i won't tell you what i was doing on the toilet my partners took the landline call the doors flung open he said jemma lawrence fox is on the phone what hell have you got us into oh yeah we've signed up we're going to be his candidates for the borough of brent that we was i don't agree with everything lawrence fox stands for now obviously but at the time i was in hypomania and
i didn't really look into his mail his rules of what he was trying to put into play i just thought sign up let's go so he was like my partner's oh okay yeah all right well just send us a paper okay we'll sign it and he's how do you want to and my partner was like just no just let's Let's do the paperwork and that's enough. So that was an experience. Yeah, hypomania again. And I dragged the kids into it. I'm like, what do you want to be? Do you want to be famous? Let's go.
And my son has just recently walked out on the pitch with Chelsea football club Enzo Fernandez. I think he's called them terrible football players. Yeah, I get my kids roped into these situations as well. And six-year-old lad toddling out on Chelsea football pitch, Stanford Bridge, Enzo Fernandez, Captain's armband. And yeah, now I can't top that. So now he thinks he's famous. But yeah, that's hypomania. So I definitely know bipolar is at play. Do you have more highs than lows?
At the moment, it used to be more lows than highs, but now I'm healing and I'm learning how to work with the hypermania. I'd say the highs are way more than what they used to be. I try not to medicate because if I medicate, but at night time, I'll have a small dose of quetiapine to calm me down. But if I need to get something done, Shay, I have to be unmedicated.
And that's how I'm working with it at the moment because I put on they medicated me with 1500 milligram of Depakote but then I ended up getting pregnant on the Depakote and that causes cleft palate and deformities and then and then with alongside that I was on 400 milligram of quetiapine and I must have put on about six stone I could barely raise my children on that kind of medication so I've had to wean myself and wean myself off but I can't
be off it completely because otherwise then it's uproar so yeah I'll take more I'll take more if the mood's higher and if I think it can manage with a lower dose I'll take a lower dose so I fluctuate with it and I know that's not advised but it's just how I've been doing it why I'm getting these yeah and 100% that is what Gemma is doing that is not our advice you do what you do everybody knows I am med compliant for me and that I am pro so that is how she is dealing with it please listen to
your doctor and just take our experience for what it is for sure yeah advice I am terrible at advice when it comes to I think that what you brought up is that. You recognize that you take it when you need it. I don't know very many folks that can take nothing that don't have to have such an extremely controlled life, right? Because as we know, it's chronic and right now there is no cure. And so we have to do the best that we can.
What are your strategies that you have outside of medication that help you when you. Let's start with maybe when you used to be more depressed or when depressive episodes come on?
There's nothing to cure that depression shay i haven't got any advice on that you just have to ride the storm so when i'm depressed to get out of it i can't i can't get out of that myself to let it ride i have to and even my children can't get it then my children i will try to mask as best as i can in front of my children but they know yeah and even my partner i don't want to talk to him when i'm depressed i don't want to do anything i don't want to even be here so i do
we have to do any advice about I have to let it yeah I talk about healing is not linear I'm a mental illness activist you can't ward off an illness but I'm wondering how do you get yourself out of the house do you have or is it you can't function or are you able to go for a walk or try to continue with meals or what does that look like for you I will do everything I need to do under a sluggish mentality like it will get done I just have to you when you've got children you've got
the school when you've got places to be you have to just drag yourself out there I know some people can't do that I know bipolar affects everybody differently but for me I haven't got a choice and maybe that's a good thing because I haven't got a choice I've got to get out there so I will drag myself but it's sunglasses it's hood up in winter it's music on it headphones in it's don't talk to me. I'm just getting it, get from A to B. I hear you. I feel that too.
I talk a lot about the little things, right? And doing the little things that help, even when they don't feel like they help, right? Like I used to roll my eyes when it was like, go for a walk or do this or do that. It didn't make anything feel extremely better, but I knew doing those small steps that it would, even if it was like just tippy toe forward, word. I found that it did help, but you brought up a really good, important point. Yeah. There is no cure and we are not here to give that.
What about when you are hypomanic? Is there things that you do? Do you try to be very strict about bedtime? What do you do? Or maybe what is that a struggle for you? And what do you think you should choose to do that you don't? Tell me about that. The only thing that knocks me out is my medication. But if I'm running this high, Shay, I will take my medication a little bit later because naturally I do like to enjoy that high, especially if I have to get things done.
So bedtime can fluctuate. If I have the medication, it will knock me out eventually. In hypomania, Shay, like now, I can't even explain it. It's chaos. I don't even remember the day because I've been throwing the kids in the air. I've been putting the music on. I'm rushing around. I'm cleaning. and maybe I'm not cleaning. It is chaotic.
And I can relate to that. I showed up to the interview that we are having right now yesterday because I'm having hypomanic symptoms and I find it hard and it is such a difference than the depression. It is hard not to get caught up in it, but like it's good until it isn't. And because it brings on the anger and the frustration and People aren't coming along with everything and they don't get that I know everything that is right and so you should do it my way.
So I have to be really careful. And right now I'm putting like strict things on bedtime and strict because there's a lot of change for me. My kids are going back to school. I'm a teacher. But I'm actually, before we move into the next part and we wrap up this part, I'm just really curious about how this is. We know bipolar brains change, even good change brings forth things. Just been starting to tell your story in the last little bit.
I'm curious about how that's impacting your bipolar disorder or symptoms. Is it high and low? Is it both? Do you have emotional vulnerability hangovers? Tell me what it's been like for you after sharing.
It's they've been intense the highs and the lows have been extremely intense and more rapid cycle usually it'd be like prolonged depression and then maybe a short high but this has just been like that rapid cycle i've lost two stones since starting this process i set up my instagram about two months ago and i've lost two stone in weight or you met i don't know what it is in kg or however you yeah google it everybody google it so two stone in uk weight so
yeah i've lost a lot of weight since starting this and it's because i just haven't been eating shay in my hypomania i've just not been eating and that's healthy or i've just been having a little chocolate and a coffee here and there so that speaks volumes to lose that much weight in such a short period of time that just shows how it is affected my mental health I hope that feeding your sometimes when I'm hypomanic the only thing that gets me eating is that I have to feed my family that's so
I really feel for people that don't have those markers because if it was just me I would be like popcorn and I just cough I hope that I I hope you can take care of yourself after this I am just so.
Grateful this is one of the different podcasts and this was my favorite one because it's woman to woman bipolar to bipolar it's very difficult talking to men and they don't come at you from a female perspective that it's an interviewer technique and because I would I was lacking sleep on one of the podcasts I didn't really like the way I portrayed myself I was angry that I'd I'd answered some questions, maybe not in the best way.
So I was kicking myself up. When you've got bipolar, you do put your foot in your mouth. Your brain and your mouth, they don't work together. I was really looking forward. I'm in my home. I'm in my home comforts. And I just knew this was going to be one for me. So I was really happy when he reached out. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm so grateful. And you're right. That's how I exactly how I've been feeling with my family.
Like I'm like watching the words go out and I'm like, I don't actually even believe what I'm saying right now. You said that you're open with your family. Yeah. I have teenage girls and 16 and 18 and yeah.
And so there's a lot of feelings in this house and I have to admit it they're a lot or it's mostly me it I have to tell them because there's sometimes where I find like I'm just on them about about a lot of things and anyways I really related to that but we'll start talking kids in the next one and while being careful to not share their story but I just want to thank you I feel such a heart connection with you I feel really honored that you could share in this space and I
know literally you are saving lives by telling your story I just believe that so strongly I hope so that's all I want that's all I want Shay I just want to reach the people just the regular people the average Joes like me I don't want to be in this for any other reason but to reach just people that's not just regular people because you struggled alone for so long and I know and I feel I'm still struggling alone now people don't get it now even for my partner now he doesn't get it no it's
true even I've been with mine for 23 years too and he can understand it but not never fully thank you so much for being here I will have all of Gemma's contact information online at it's bipolar mom tell me again I'm forgetting the handle Bipolar Mom Journey. Okay. I almost had it right. And it's M-U-M, right? M-U-M. Yeah. M-U-M. Yeah. England, baby. And reach out. Gemma is so open. If you want to connect with her there and go follow along, help us reach the people that need to.
Every message, every I've been through some of this too means the world to us.
It is that's the best thing that I know and you also write on your blog so you put your links there and that's where I was just pulled into your story as well so go give Gemma all the love thank you thank you for being here thank you for being honest and we're best friends now I don't think I can come to Canada because of my criminal record I'll come to you I went to Europe for the first time last year and we went to France and Italy anyways it's a whole story
but I fell in love with Europe so I will be coming to you I will make you friendship bracelets this is for reals yeah cool love it I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I look forward to our next conversation. My subscribers will get to listen to it right away. The rest of you are probably going to be very curious. It will come a month after that. So be sure to watch for that. Thank you for being here. I know this is a long one, but I just feel like it
was so important to tell. So this is Bipolar. Thanks again for tuning in. You can find video versions of This is Bipolar on our YouTube channel. We also have all our previous and soon to be episodes of the podcast on Apple, Podbean, Spotify, and Google Play. We spend most of our time on Instagram at this.is.bipolar. There is a vibrant community there where we have conversations and post different ideas and and different strategies, and we'd just love for you to join us there.
It is so helpful if you enjoy our work or think it would be helpful to someone if you could like and share and save and follow us in all or any of those spaces. If you're a listener for the podcast, if you could leave a review, we would be forever grateful. Again, thank you for being here with us. Let's get the word out. Let's share lived experiences so that we can change the ideas that people have about bipolar, and help those of us that live with it feel less alone. This is bipolar. Music.