All right, my friends. Today I am talking to Jordan Gill and Jordan, if you aren't familiar with her is the founder of systems saved me. And she's widely known as the go to resource for business owners who want to create VIP days. But what is a VIP day? Right? Well, if you don't know, I am very glad you asked because that is exactly what Jordan and I are going to deep dive on, and you are going to want to pay
attention. We are getting really specific on not just what VIP days are but who there right for how we can use them in a one to one service business, like photography, the different types of VIP days that are out there, and then some tips for marketing them. And I'm gonna let Jordan give you the majority of this
information. But what I just want to say especially I just recorded this conversation, and I'm I'm already excited to go back and re Listen, I want to say that I think that this is a genius strategy for anyone out there who is struggling to differentiate themselves and their offer in their market. So if you feel like you just are lost in the sea of photographers around you, this is going to be a really good one for you to
meditate on. And think about how you can bring a VIP day offer into your business, whether it is photography specific, or something on the periphery some sort of service that you can offer that you have skills with, and that your expertise as a photographer sets you up to be in the right position for Jordans shares so much specific and actionable information in this conversation. It is really a great one. So I am going to stop here and cue the music so we can get started. Welcome to
this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how Jordan Gill I have been so excited to have you on the podcast. Welcome to this can't
be that hard. How are you today?
I'm doing fabulous. Thank you so much for having me on me. I really appreciate it.
My pleasure. I was introduced to you actually, how gosh, I feel like it's been a long time ago. You've been on my radar for a long time. And for that entire time. I've been like, oh, VIP days. This is such a cool idea. But it's been something that as a photographer, I was like, well, that's not really for me. When I transitioned into education and the education world, I was like, Well, this is something that probably makes a little bit more
obvious sense. But then last fall, so almost a year ago, when my friend colleague, James Wood with whom my audience is very familiar when she was on the podcast, we were talking and she like, sprinkled in the term VIP day. And my like DMS blew up and everybody was like, What is this
VIP day business. And so ever since then, I have been hoping that I could get you to come on to talk a little bit about what it is to I mean, you are the VIP day queen, everybody knows you as the person who sort of teaches this and helps people get started. And so like who better to talk to about what a VIP day offer could mean to someone who provides one on one service like a photographer. So this is going to be a juicy episode. I'm already excited.
I've got my light pen in my notebook out ready to take notes. So I figured we would start with just a brief kind of overview of what a VIP day is for anybody out there who may not be familiar with the term.
Yes. So we define a VIP day as a forfeit your offering minimum because it does have VIP you know, in the front of the word. So we're not here for chump change. And so it's a four minimum four figure offering that the day actually lasts between three and eight hours depending on obviously what it is that you're doing.
And that helps your clients through a transformation process or method right so that can be website design for some people obviously y'all are photographers so it is maybe a brand shoot or family shoot or engagement shoot or something of the like and we can get into different examples but those are the criteria is you know, this isn't something that's a low ticket offer or kind of a lower
priced offer. This is really for somebody who wants like the best of the best of you the most access the highest and caliber of work and like they want it done in a short amount of time because they value their time more than money. And then you are giving them a transformation. So it's not just a pick my brain or Ask Me Anything session, it is like truly there is a before and there's an after. And there's a transformation that's taking place,
there's that sort of built in promise that by the end of this day, you will have fill in the blank to show for the time and money spent excellence. Exactly. So give me a little bit more of the the why behind VIP days, you know, people this it sounds like kind of an exciting offer. But from the service providers perspective, you know, why go to the trouble of putting this offer together? Yeah, for
sure. It's, it's a couple of reasons. Number one, if I mean, again, I'm assuming everyone has had clients who's listening, clients come in all shapes, sizes, varieties, personalities, preferences, and not everyone is a right fit client. And so I have found that, you know, when people step up to the plate and pay a premium for a service, then they are going to come at it with a higher level of seriousness and intention that they aren't going to like mess around with a lot
of the dramatic stuff. This is not 100% filter for, you know, the client drama, however, I have seen and experienced myself less of the client antics in VIP day offers because when people are paying a premium for something, they're like, Okay, I want to show up, like, I want to get the result that we're here for. And so I don't want to mess around with all this other ancillary stuff. So that's number one. Number two is if you want actually more time freedom
yourself. So if you are back to back to back to back to back, and all of these different services and things that you have going on, then when do you have time to live your life, and most of us became entrepreneurs and business owners because we wanted to be able to have more choice, meaning we can choose to work or we can choose to go and spend the day at the beach with a family or, you know, go buy an RV and run around, you know, all
summer cross country. So if you are somebody who wants more choice in your business, and wants the ability to create something that is like the best of the best of your work, I'm somebody who values excellence, that's a really high value of mine. And so I knew that I really had to look at my offerings as I'm a Systems person. So operations is my jam, I don't really look at my offers and be like, how do I bring the best of me, like, I want my clients to like to get the best
of me as much as possible. And I knew that for me, again, I was working on going with my clients, and that constant task list was running me down. And so I had to figure out a way to reduce the task list into more focused bursts. And that's where VIP days came into play.
Yeah, I imagine on the on the flip side, VIP days are also something that especially in a genre, where you don't see them all the time, it might be there may be sort of the the side benefit, or the added benefit of giving you an offer that stands out from the crowd and helps, you know, bring eyes to you and like make your offer an apples to oranges comparison photography, as I'm sure you know, is one of those like hyper competitive fields. And it can be really hard to stand out from the crowd.
So it's so true. It's definitely one of the most innovative offers out there. I work with a photographer here in Dallas, who does one day turnarounds for branch shoots and things like that. Now obviously, we're doing like a two hour shoot or something like that we aren't doing like a huge mega situation. But it's, it's definitely why I continue to go back to that person because I'm like, I can trust that like we're gonna get in, we're gonna be real serious for these two
hours. Like we know the shots we need, we know the locations, we know the props, and like we can get in there and get done. And then I know the next day I'm gonna get an email with all the photos, all the imagery and whatnot, that I can then just go and give to my team because the quicker I can get results in
every part of every process. And the quicker I can launch my product or the quicker I can, you know, give out this giveaway that I'm doing or whatever it is so, you know, people love free right so people are like, Oh my gosh, this is so high price. People do love free but if they can't have free then their next best thing that they value is speed. Like if you think about like what are the most you know, expensive cars, they're the
fastest ones. You think about if you're waiting in line somewhere in like Disney, like there's a regular ticket line and then there's the Fastpass ticket line where you can pay extra to avoid waiting in lines for so long. This is an error Every industry like I could literally list 1000s. But it, it hasn't quite infiltrated into the services industry as much as it hasn't some some services. But this is not like a Jordan psychology
came up with it in a lab. This was me seeing what was happening in all these other industries and trying to adapt that into again, online service providers, physical service providers, coaches and consultants. So if you're wondering, from a psychology standpoint, how does this work, it's already working every single day, like out there in the real world. So, you know, don't, don't get caught up in Oh, but my clients want this like big, detailed experience.
Like sometimes we can create, we can overcomplicate and try to over deliver. And what that really is, is actually has more to do with us trying to overcompensate and something we think we lack. And I'm speaking from somebody who is a huge over deliver, and used to live by the mantra of under promise over deliver. And that's what caused me to burn out multiple times. So I really had to check myself and recognize that delivering itself is enough. And that was a that's, it's still a hard lesson
for me to learn. But I've gotten better at putting that into practice myself.
So cool. Yeah, I am right there with you. I'm all about the like it is it can be very tempting. And I actually feel like this is particularly true when you're relatively new because you do feel like you have to overcompensate or prove to someone after the fact you know they've hired you, they've invested their time and money with you. So you have to like blow them out of the water.
Sometimes, when I'm out there in the world shopping or trying to God forbid, get some work done on my house, that is like the hardest one these days where you call and you're like, please take my credit card. And they're like, we're not even get to return your call much less actually deliver on what we said we were going to deliver on but the just having someone say they're going to show up show up when they say do the work they're going to do on time in budget. That is it's like the
dream. And so if we can look to that, and create that kind of promise, I think that people are willing to pay for it. But we have to have something really well defined. Would you agree that this is a VIP day offer can maybe be created in almost any sphere? But as a provider, you have to be pretty organized?
Yeah, I would say, um, organized ish, Iwould say I think it's more about just definitions more than organization in the sense of again, defining okay, what is the end result? And then, you know, working backwards of like, okay, what questions do I need to ask my clients before we work together, in order for me to accomplish this end result? What are the assets that I need to create, to make sure that I can create the result in the fastest
way possible? So there are some things that you have to work through and define, for sure. Um, but again, as a systems person, I'm like, let your systems do the organizing. And you should be spending time in your genius, like, you shouldn't have to be like, Okay, let me sort through all of these papers, right of where they told me what their brand colors are, or, you know, their wedding colors or whatever it's about, okay, you have a centralized place for that, so that you know
where everything is. So there's, there's an element of organization, for sure. And I think that there's a lot that systems can do for people that allows them to work in their expertise. For the majority of the time, instead of, you know, frantically looking through all of the places and things
nice. Okay, so let's get down to brass tacks. I think the million dollar question here is, this all sounds great, but how in the world do you create some sort of VIP day within a business like photography, where really, it's kind of a one on one, there is sort of this general idea out there about how photography works, you've kind of tipped your hat a little bit with the branding work that you have had done there in Dallas, but give me some more ideas. Um, I've got my
Yes, all of the ideas. So I'm gonna give you kind of three transformational types that you can have for VIP days. And then we'll play around in that in that playground with photography. So the first one is you're looking at an A to Z transformation. So potentially A to Z is like the full transformation of what you do.
So if your transformation is wedding photography, that would be from like, you know, putting a strategy together on like, what the look of your photos are, etc to like Having your wedding photos, elopement, photos, engagement, photos, whatever other kind of photos got going on. So that's the full transformation. And that's, again, that's a wedding example. But a full transformation is A to Z on the spectrum. And then you have like a to g, A to F ish. And that's what I call
foundational transformations. So we have full transformation, we have foundational transformation, which is like kind of just the beginning part of the full transformation. So if you're somebody who really likes to focus on maybe, instead of actually doing the photos, you work with people who want to learn how to take their own
brand photos. And so you're doing a session with them to get them started on the strategy, how to pick the right props, how to pick the right locations, how to use a selfie remote, whatever the case is, and then they get to experience the rest of the transformation on their own, if
they so choose. So that's an example or even with wedding photography, to instead of doing a full wedding, maybe you do VIP days that are engagement photos, and like that's it, and like it's a three hour engagement photo shoot with one or two locations, you decide whatever. And that's the initial
transformation. And what's cool about foundational Transformations is there's potential for them to then upsell into the full transformation, if you want them to right, so then that gives you the power to invite them in to that next step with you. And if they are not a right fit, for whatever reason, it just like values or whatever, like you can just stop the transformation. And you don't have to think oh my gosh, I have to keep carrying out this, you know, proposal in
this contract that I created. So that's what I like about foundational ones is they can qualify your longer term clients for you. And again, most people can like get through a day with anybody. So again, if it's not a right fit, then you kind of have an out right there, which is really nice. Yeah, then you have feature transformation, which is kind of like smack dab in the middle ish. So like an H to m, maybe P in the A to Z scale. And that is kind of like the juicy
middle. So photography could be interesting. I'm trying to think of other full transformations wedding is one of the only ones I would say I'm most familiar with potentially. I don't know what a feature transformation is on a photography client.
Well tell me this give me cuz I imagine I know photography, perhaps more intimately than you do. But yeah, you give me an example in a different field, because I'm already like, Oh, what about this? What about this, but I'm one.
Cool. So I'll do like social media. So if I manage social media, and the full process is I plan, and then I create all the assets, and then I like publish and schedule, creating all the assets would be the feature transformation of a social media manager. So they're not doing the strategy, you have to come in with the strategy. And then you leave, and you still have to do like the scheduling the
publishing whatever else. So they just focus on creating Canva templates for you or creating 30 reels, or whatever the case is, in that feature. Transformation. Does that make sense? Yeah,
totally. So I guess if we were sticking specifically to photography, really, that would be the making of the photos, right. So maybe you become a specialist where all you are doing you work with a team because I can't imagine you would put this out of house but you are the one who comes in and takes the photos and this.
This is something that I talk to photographers a fair amount about because so many people get into photography, saying I want to spend my career hours making photos, and then I became a photographer and all I do is sit in front of the computer. And my response is that is a choice. And you can get out of that choice by you can hire people to do all of the onboarding, you can make the photos and then the sales part of things can be also
outsourced. elsewhere. So if we're talking about photography, it could be that could be your like, you're just doing the photos, everything else is done by somebody else. But if we were to take that just a little if we were to extrapolate a little bit because photographers at heart are creatives and many of us are really good at all kinds of
other things. And so you know there are if we for instance work with a client who this happens to me as a family photographer, somebody will hire me to take photos of their you know their family with a little kids little babies. And at the end I send them an album or I sell them an album rather and they come back to me and they
say this is amazing. We always intended to get a wedding album but we never did and we got married 10 years ago and we have these wedding photos that are sitting on like a CD because that's or a DVD because they got married 10 years ago. And and they will ask To me, you know, would you be willing to take our wedding photos and put them into an album? And it's like, oh, okay, somebody else did that work, but I could do this work. And maybe maybe we're getting
ahead of ourselves. And maybe that's more of like, what I imagined would be the P to Z
service. But there are all these different sort of ancillary skills that photographers have that if they want to spread out their, you know, add streams of revenue into their business that aren't just taking photos, I just want to make sure that as people are listening to Jordan here to you, that they are not, that they're not getting so hyper focused on making just a photography VIP day, because there's so many great ideas here.
Oh, yeah. And yeah, it can get into the, into the coaching realm, too, of like, okay, if you're coaching other photographers, or you're coaching, I don't know, your your associate photographers, or whatever the case is, like, you can definitely create a coaching VIP day where it's like, okay, you know, if the full transformation is becoming a six figure photographer or something, then the maybe the foundational one would be okay, like, we need to set up like your service suite, right, and
figure out your pricing and your marketing plan and etc. And then like, you go off, and you actually do and execute that plan feature could be okay, they've started their business, something's not working. So I'm going to do like a bit of an audit, or analyze and recommend some adjustments. And then the full transformation, I don't know how that would necessarily work with, with coaching per se.
But you could technically be like, Hey, we're talking about the offer, we're going to look at, like, all of the different areas of your business. And then you know, I'm going to help with some of the execution in some way, shape or form. So even you know, outside of photography of coaching is something that you love to I was actually talking with them a good friend of mine that's has a boudoir photography. Studio, she thinks
just three actually. And what's interesting is the women can come out of her experience and are like, how do I feel this good about myself every day. And so now she's coming up with services and offers to help kind of bottle up the magic of what she does in her boudoir, sweet boudoir shoots to really build her clients confidence. And now it's in in different in person workshops, and I think a membership and an app and all
sorts of stuff. But it's like if there's something special that you're doing in your in your shoots, that people are like, how can I get more of this? Like, really think about your experience? And if there are other opportunities for you to work with clients in a variety of ways that, again, aren't just taking pictures, for sure. Yeah,
that's amazing. I'm gonna have to get this person's name. And she sounds like somebody who would also be really good to talk to. Yeah, that is that I really do. I always admire people who are able to think outside the box and not get caught in that trap of, well, I have to offer it this way. Because that's the way everybody else is offering it. I feel like if you're able to kind of flip the script there and say instead of that, obviously, you don't want to do something that
no one wants. But, but trying something that's different. And outside the box can be the way that you you know, set yourself up for an entirely, you know, like your career can take off from there. It's so good. Okay, so we have sort of the A to Z, we have the foundational transformation, we have the feature transformation. And I'm guessing there's one more
Yeah, so it's interesting. So the PSA transformation is very interesting, because I actually don't count it. So there's like the full transformation of A to Z. There's foundational and there's the feature. The reason I don't share the Peter z as a transformation is most people are not finishers, right? They're more they like to plan and start things or they like to like kind of audit or workshop or create things, they don't really like to do the finishing
aspect of it. Now, if you are a finisher, then you are a very select few. And like you should probably do a VIP day because not many people like to finish right the work of other people. But it definitely is a transformation you can promote and have available I would say what I've seen as a PTZ as a website developer, so they'll work with a website designer, and then they'll develop the actual website themselves. So I would say it's a select few amount of people that have that
kind of finisher. So for my other F my finisher transformation. I don't bring it up as often because it's very, very, like low amount of people that like to do that work. Yeah, but it's there and it's available for sure.
Interesting. And in some ways that really is I think kind of an opportunity for certain photographers because a lot of people are excited about hiring a photographer, because they see their friends photos on Instagram, or they, you know, they have this feeling in their, whatever in their psyche somewhere that like, oh, we have a little kid or we're engaged and we are supposed to get photos. And what they fall into is this trap of they don't know really what to do with them once
they have them. And some photographers do a really good job of helping people land, the plane making, you know, helping them choose products that they're going to purchase to hang on their wall or, or, you know, design an album and get that job done. But a lot don't.
And so, yeah, just kind of using my example from before, if you are someone who really enjoys that part of it, helping people design that out, or that like wall gallery that they have been dreaming about, but are totally intimidated about actually designing an ordering and hanging themselves. Like that is a service that we are uniquely positioned to provide. So could be could be an opportunity.
Yeah, for sure. I love that example. Yeah, it's that last transformation has been hard for me to define in a lot of industries and things. And so I've kind of taken it off the plate, but I totally agree I could see that working really well in the photography industry, if you know the kind of the Okay, now I have this album, my photos are done, and how do I build the you know, the wall art that I want? Or, you know, set things up in my house? If I'm getting a new house?
Where are the pictures going to go? And which pixels we're going to choose and sizing and framing and all that stuff? That would be pretty dope VIP day.
I mean, I don't know about you, I grew up in one of the many households where we had like big shoe boxes full of pictures, and my mother forever was like one day, I'm going to sit down and organize all of these. Yeah, now of course, we have like the digital libraries, which are so much bigger.
Yeah, easy.
Well, um, so let's talk a little bit about once you've got an offer put together can you give us I know that we are limited in time, and there's plenty more information, Jordan is going to give you how you can find out all the details here. But let's talk a little bit about how you market a VIP day to a an audience that may not be familiar with that as kind of an offering.
Yeah, absolutely. Biggest thing is talking about how it saves somebody time. That is the bait. So to speak, for VIP day clients, if they can't wrap their mind around how it's going to save them time, then is going to be really tricky. Because that is the main driver of VIP day clients across any industry across all the things.
So when you are going out there and offering this, especially if it's the first time you're offering this avoiding the words like beta, or any sort of, I encourage, if you like so badly want to let people know that this is like your first time using the word founding is a little bit better. Because it's premium, it makes it feel like it's special, exclusive versus beta feels like who knows what the heck, I'm gonna get right
and of this. And so I feel like when people tend to trip up, even just like the fine details of messaging around VIP days. So definitely think about the language you're using. So again, if you're wanting to work with established business owners, like are you using words like
start? Or begin are those sorts of things to where established business owners are like, not like our start, don't begin, even if it's like a new offer for them, or whatever the case is, they don't like that language, because no one wants to feel like they have to go back to the intern status of like anything, even if they are right. So I, I would say the messaging aspect is really big, then we'll get into the marketing of like, okay, where are these people? Who are these
people? How do I get in front of them, etc. And it's obviously going to depend. So my suggestion, especially for photographers who have more of an in person experience is finding those events or even creating those opportunities to get in the room with your
clients. So for example, there's different I'm in Dallas, so it's a it's a pretty big city, but we'll there'll be different events for business owners that I can go to and there's photographers there and I get to meet them and connect with them, follow them on Instagram, etc, to start that that relationship. But also I know and have friends who will host these dinner parties with people and it's people from a variety of
industries. And so we all get together have dinner, you know, connect, collaborate, etc. And so If you're somebody who's like, I don't know where these people are, or I can't find those events or those gatherings and maybe it could be an encouraging time to create that opportunity, and bring people together because it's really powerful when you're the person doing the gathering, like everyone then will look to you as somebody who is well connected is somebody who is
wanting to take that initiative. And that's really attractive to again, VIP clients. So like, oh, dope, like I haven't, you know, been in a room full of people in two years, with all the panoramic stuff going on. Like this person is taking time to curate a roomful of people that, you know, all our, you know, all our kids go to the same school.
And so we could all do family shoots together, or do kid shoots together, or whatever the case is, curation is another thing that I think VIP day clients really value is, again, you're saving the time, but of not having to like figure this whole thing out, you're actually creating the room for me to just walk into enjoy and experience,
which is really big. So I would say for photographers, specifically, it probably would be best to be in the rooms of people, because that's the quickest way that somebody's going to be able to feed off your vibe and energy. So that would be number one. And then number two is referral partnerships. I am obsessed with referral partnerships. That's how I've gotten the majority of my VIP days thinking about where are your clients before they come to you? Like, are they in
book clubs? Are they going to business conferences? Are they going to, I don't know, bridal parties at somebody's house, like where are they and inserting yourself into those either those rooms, or those people who are hosting those rooms and saying, Hey, look, when you host your next bridal party, you know, at your house, or when you do another virtual conference, or whatever the case is, I would like to be a part of
that. So that again, they're able to bring clients in who are at the exact point they need to be before coming to you. So for example, for me, website, designers are a great referral partner, because and I found that out, it wasn't what I originally thought. But I found that out, as I was working with clients, they all were telling me that they had gotten their website done within like one or two months prior to coming to me. So I was like, Well, why
wait one to two months. Like, let me go to some website designers and connect with them. And it's gonna make them look really good. Because if somebody they fix the front end, but then their back end sucks, the business owner isn't gonna think it's their fault, they're gonna think it's the website's fault, because they're like, give me great enough leads, but really, their back end isn't organized.
So what's great now is when somebody is getting their website created, they can then come to me for a quick day, set up their CRM system connected to their website, and then the website designer looks amazing. I don't need my name and lights. But the website designer feels good, like, does their job, and I'm just an extension of their
client journey. And so that's why I've been able to get referrals, you know, unlike a lot of people who are just like, send me clients, you know, like, I'm truly a part of their journey, I'm truly a part and an extension of their client experience. And so when you are able to insert yourself like that, then referrals come a lot
easier. So if you this person is hosting those in home parties, or whatever for brides, like, if you are at every single one of those, or if you are whatever you sponsor the tea or whatever, like that will help. And that is a way that they're going to say, hey, they're providing value to me. So I want to provide value to them kind of that law of reciprocity is at play there where you don't have to be like send me clients send me clients all the time. Because Newsflash,
we all want more clients. Thank you so much, right? So. So those are two, two ways that I would say photographers specifically could be able to find their VIP day clients.
That's amazing. I can't wait to go back and listen to that, that you everything you just said again,
and like write it all down. But just off the top of my head, you know, I think, tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems like what you're saying is one of the smartest ways that you can set yourself up to connect with the right people for this is to really think about and I guess if we take it back to sort of the stage of the of the model, or the model of the VIP day that you're offering, if you're offering that sort of founders area, you know, founding kind of VIP day, then you want to find
you want to think about what other providers or services or whatever that that client needs, and then how can you help that other provider and this is like networking, kind of one on one, but at the same time. It's amazing how few people are really thinking strategically about that when we're talking about the small business space.
And all you need are one or two of those really good connections if you're a wedding photographer obvious like wedding planners, you know, bridal events like you're talking about, but when you're a family photographer, real estate agents, interior designers, if you are doing newborn stuff, then obviously the birth community, doulas, midwives, birth centers, hospitals, like there's so many
good ones. And so if you're providing value to them, and putting yourself kind of in the in the, in the midst of that community, then then you're going to position yourself effectively as an expert. And that's when people are like, great. I just want the expert to take me on this VIP journey. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Amazing. So much good information. Okay. And I know that we have limited time. So I want to honor that.
But I also know that everyone listening is going to be like, no, no, I need more, I need more. So Jordan, tell everyone where they can find you. And where they can learn more about VIP days, if they're interested.
Yes. So if you're wanting, like a lay of the land, like, Okay, I want to learn more about what a successful VIP day can look like, then I would suggest going to our roadmap, which honestly, we'll have the link in the show notes, I'm sure for you to check that out. And that's just kind of the the nine parts of every successful VIP day plus three mistakes, we see way too commonly around people
building their VIP days. And if you're like, Okay, I already know I'm like, want to do VIP days, but like, what type of VIP days should I do, then we have a quiz for that. And that is where we let you know which VIP day type you should create based on your preferences, your energetic capacity. And then we give video examples after you take the quiz of your type. So you can listen to how different people structure theirs, or how they market them, all that sort of stuff. So lots of fun resources
to be had. Excellent.
And I will for sure link both of those in the show notes. And then is there. Do you want to share your website or your Instagram just verbally in case somebody is not like sitting at the computer? Yeah.
Yeah. So my website is systems plural, because it's many systems, systems saved me.com. And then our Instagram is at system stage me as well, plural. So we try to make it really easy....branding,
love it. I know. And it was funny, you were talking about your brand photography experience earlier. And I was I was going to jump in and say, which is so onpoint like you've got such great branding and such great branding photography. So shout out to your brand photographer.
Yes, thank you. Yeah, it's a Brandon used to be a bad word for me, we did not have a good relationship. But when you find somebody who actually listens and sees you, it makes such a big difference. Because that was really the missing piece was everyone was putting their own spin on who they thought I was versus actually listening and knowing and like digesting who it is I was. So I really appreciate that feedback. It's been a journey.
And that's good feedback for every single brand photographer who's listening right now because that is what they're all striving to do, hopefully. Yeah. Well, this has been great I am because it was everything that I was hoping it would be and more so thank you so much for coming on the show and and I hope you have a great day. Yes.
Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it. Have fun.
Well, that's it for this week's episode of This can't be that hard. I'll be back Same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode, along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads at this can't be that hard.com/learn If you liked the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review on iTunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.