EP 152: Better Business Boundaries With Sabrina Gebhardt

But since we recorded that show, she and I have talked about how, as easy as it is to think like, Yeah, I'm going to be the CEO of my business, it is a way harder, more complex thing to actually walk that walk to stick to those boundaries that you set for

yourself. So I thought that it would be a ton of fun to have Sabrina back on the show, to talk a little bit more about the importance of boundaries about reminding yourself, why you set boundaries, it's not all about being selfish, and, you know, keeping things exactly like you want them. It really does have real life practical impacts on everything from your bottom line to your time, and even things like your relationships and your

mental health. I'm super excited to chat with Sabrina, I know you're going to love this conversation. So I will let you dive right in. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way.

Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how. Sabrina, it is so great to have you back on this can't be that hard. How have you been? Hi, friend.

thing to aspire to. But so many people who kind of set that as an intention or a goal, find themselves falling short. And that's like a really common thing, it's like you do get stuck in the in the mishmash of your business or the like, I don't even know how to say that in an eloquent way you would do a better job but but that, that, and then you had some like amazing insights as to how that happens and why that happens and what we can do to prevent that from happening. And I was like,

Don't say anything? Wait, let me hit the record button. So we are on the podcast to, to sort of do a follow up to the, to the being the CEO of your business and how how to keep that at the forefront and not get derailed. So I'm going to zip my lips here and let you kind of jump in and talk to talk to me a little bit about that.

the wagon really quickly. Yeah, it's you're setting these intentions, but then there's no follow through. And what I have found is that at the at the root of this, it is a boundary problem. And it can be literally you're having problems with boundaries of your time boundaries of your relationships, boundaries of your limitations, boundaries of what you do and what you don't

do what your business is. I mean, there's literally like how many boundaries can we can we take off in this conversation because there's so many, but that's why there's no follow

through. Because, I mean, if you want to get really nitty gritty like a lot of us these boundaries we have they are from childhood from the way we're raised from long standing relationships, stories we tell ourselves I mean, you can get into all that kind of stuff and boundaries run really really deep and it's it's literally trying to break the deepest, most ingrained habits possible. But they carry over from our personal life into our business. And that's where we get stuck.

That's where we say, Oh, I'm only going to shoot, you know, this day a week. Wow, that then I'm going to bend for this person. And then this person and this person, you know, next thing you know, that's boundaries totally out the window. Yeah, happens with everything. So

to it. That's the thing. You can't just dream about the boundary, you can't just say it's going to be your new boundary, you have to actually stick to it. And I have found a lot of times what that can look like is knowing that you're going to have to knowing that you need to set up a way to save yourself from yourself. Yep. Does that make sense? It does, you

pan of brownies. Like I have to think smart. Before I do that. I know that I will sit down and eat the whole day.

on my mind more and more. It's just it's almost like I don't know, keeping an exercise journal or something like that. If you're if you're paying attention to if you're just the act of like keeping the journal makes you more likely to do the do the thing. So yeah,

Um, you don't have to do the same thing. You can figure out something else that works for you that you can stick to, right.

Because I want to be with my kids because I want to cook a great dinner because I want to be able to watch the shows because I want to walk the dogs, whatever it is like you have to know what the why is to support that boundary. And that's going to help you stick with it. You know, setting that goal or that boundary for yourself is just Throwing out, you know, spaghetti on the wall, it's not gonna stick until, unless you know your why, like, why is that important to you? So,

time and the overcommitment. And especially for those that have not been in business that long, this is one of those lessons that I feel like you can preach to the newbies all you want, but until they learn for themselves, like this is something we all learn, and just overscheduling over committing, um, but I went through a season where my business was successful with air quotes here, you can't see us but with the air quotes here, by all by anybody else's imagination was successful, it

was hitting certain dollar amounts, it was a certain amount of bookings, it was the right kind of clients, blah, blah, blah. But I had no space in my calendar for anything to go wrong, right, like nothing, like literally, we were just balancing this house of cards, and it was all wonderful. Until it wasn't. And I went through a series of events, and I can just talk about just the first one that kind of triggered this

whole thing. But um, I had gone on vacation, and which I had blocked off for and all those things are gone on vacation, but coming home from vacation, we came home on a Sunday, and I had already known that I was going to need a sitter all day, the following Monday, this was over the summer. And so I already had a nanny lined up because I knew I was going to come back and just jump back in the client work and editing and all that. But um, the day before we left from vacation, I was in a lot of

pain. And I was like, Oh, this is probably just like vacation mode, stomach drama, um, and, uh, you know, take some medicine and it'll be fine. But 24 hours later, we get home from traveling in a road trip, which was awful. And get home and I mean, I'm like, in extreme pain, I can't stand up without holding a counter. I'm literally like something is wrong here. Fast forward to the nanny shows up Monday morning, and I drag myself to the ER.

word. It's easy. But recovery is not easy. And I mean, I've had three C sections, and it was kind of similar to that. And so there's some recovery time and I went for a post op checkup like two weeks later. And literally within 24 hours of that checkup. We had another family emergency. And I ended up driving straight to Houston on the eve of hurricane Harvey. And because my beloved grandmother was dying, and I stayed with her, and I made it in time, and I got to say goodbye. And it was

beautiful. And that was another story for another day. But hurricane Harvey happened and I was in Houston. And I was stranded for seven days not able to come home. So I had those two events were literally like, full stop in your business, full stop

in everything. All hands on deck friends, helping my husband helping like all these people helping and I had rescheduled a bunch of people after the aqueduct, I mean, but then after I lost my grandmother and the trauma of hurricane Harvey, I came home and I was in a really bad spot. I was like PTSD, physically not doing well, I was crazy overwhelmed with the amount of people I had let down.

And that was a huge wake up call for me that I'm doing too many things and too much and I'm not allowing enough time for me and my family and life events to happen. Right. And so that kicked off this whole this whole journey for me, if you'll say I mean there was a therapist involved and there was a lot of self care and a lot of self discovery. But it kicked off

this journey. For me personally to kind of reevaluate everything, every boundary I had every part of my business What I was doing what I wanted to be doing all of my personal relationships. And even though my story is extreme, it is so similar. I see so many photographers balancing on that same thing, just waiting for something to fall, and they're going to be in the same position. And so I started talking about it more, I've been very vocal about my experience from then, which was back in

2017. To now about how all of this, you can't just compartmentalize your business and your personal life, they go together, and you have to have healthy boundaries in place to support them both. So

down. But, but it's also one of those things, anyone who hasn't personally experienced something like that lives in this state of constant, like underlying stress, knowing that that could happen and not having any ability to control it. Because we don't like those things happen in life, people die, accidents happen. And it doesn't even have to be tragedy, it can also be something like an amazing opportunity comes along and you've painted yourself into a corner so hard that you can't

take advantage. Yes. Which is sort of the the more the rosier version of the same sad story, but but it really is something that I think as entrepreneurs, as artists, as people who are, we are, I don't want to say afraid to fail, although I think that that's true in a lot of ways. But also, we are driven to succeed, we want our businesses

to succeed. So when somebody calls and says, you know, I want to have a session this weekend, and we blocked off that weekend for family time or whatever, it's so easy to be like, well, I'll just, I'll just do this one session in the morning, nobody lives, you know, I'm gone. And it like changes the whole nature of your own time. I also think

it changes. I think that one of the things that I have tried to work on in my own boundary setting life is the fact that if I can't keep a promise to myself, How can I keep promises to the people that are around me that I love? Like, yeah, it's, if I can't say you're taking this day off, and then stick to that. It's like, there's that cascade effect where you know, that house of cards that falls apart? Yes.

extreme circumstances. So if you look at the timing of this, this was literally like, the last week in August the first week in September, so we are rolling in the busy season. Okay, all that's already scheduled. I refunded a ton of people without telling them I saw I refunded first, and then I emailed them, because I didn't want them to be able to talk me into moving them later, I knew that I needed a bunch of stuff off my plate. And so I literally charged all these

refunds. And then I sent them individual emails explaining, like 99% of them were more than understanding and supportive, and they circled back around with me and we still work with them today. It was all great. But I so it was that open line of communication with like, listen, all these things have happened. I need to take a break. I'm so sorry, you know, but as far as moving forward with my own boundaries in my

business. And this is gonna sound so cliche because you talk about this all the time, like all educators talk about this all the time, and I raise my prices, and I lightened my availability, so that there was more buffer space. And just going back to what you were saying, we all want to be successful. We want we hate to say no to money into it. and all this. But knowing what my definition of success was, it was not the number of sessions I shot, right? It was all

encompassing. It was this picture of what is the life I'm leading? How do I feel day today? Do I have the flexibility to reschedule if a client gets sick or if an opportunity comes along or whatever. And just having that wiggle room was so important to me at the time, I, you know, my youngest was a baby. And so I still didn't have like the full time childcare. And I was balancing like the schools and the chat, and then babysitters, and then Annie, all these things. And it was just a

lot. Yeah, so I started being really intentional with my availability. And when I shoot and when I don't shoot, and how many sessions I take a week, and it doesn't matter who it is, that reaches out to me, like when I'm booked, I'm booked. And so another part of that boundary setting outside of my time in my availability, was training and in some cases, retraining my clients that I'm not going to bend over backwards for them, unless it's the most extreme

circumstance, right? I'm going to, I'm going to show them the care they show me but like, you know, some little silly thing comes up and sorry, you know, or some last minute request comes up that I can't serve, you know, so training them through communication and setting expectations that like this is when I'm available, this is when I'm not available. This is what I will photograph, this is not

what I will photograph. And just educating them is huge from literally the very first contact, that's something that I built into email number one all the way through the process.

And also the shoes don't go well, but they're comfortable, but they're not gonna. And right. I was like, This is stupid. That's not what I do most of the time, right? Like I don't have I don't have my I used to when I shot weddings, I had like a wedding wardrobe that I had, right. But I don't have that anymore. So then it became this whole thing where I was like leading up to that I would

have all this stress. So it ended up that those when I would take those things every once in a while it was causing me this like outsized amount of stress and annoyance. And I was like, Yeah, I don't need that anymore. I don't want it. Oh, no, yeah. But I think that you and I are both we've been in business for a long time we have the luxury of past data, to if not guarantee us that like our business will be fine. If we say no to this opportunity, at least reassure us that if I say no,

your business will be fine. What would you say? Because I know I can almost hear them out there in the ether saying yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine for you. But when somebody calls me in once a session, I have to say yes. What? What would you say to that person?

actually want to take. But if it is a request, that's for next week, and you know that you have nothing on the books for next week. Maybe you don't want to do it, but you do need the money. That's totally fine. I call that Tuesday, money. I don't know where I heard that term. Have you heard that term? Where? Okay, I don't know where we get that term. I don't know who

coined it. But Tuesday, money is a thing you've got, especially like you're paying your bills, and you're paying for systems and processes and your website and your camera. And so that's my answer is when it is in a last minute situation and you can take it on, you're not going to have to bend over backwards to make it happen. It fits into your schedule, and you need the

money then take the job. But if it is something that is three months from now, and you're going to potentially wish you didn't take it because something else something else fantastic came along then I say don't do it.

why. Yep. But that does have to be balanced to your point with the fact that there is opportunity cost, if you fill your books, in the, you know, in a space in the future, with stuff that you hate doing, or is going to potentially prevent you from doing other things or pursuing other things that you have to really balance like, is that money worth it? So, yeah,

of their schedule. And if they're lucky enough to have, you know, clients coming at them from every direction, they say yes, to all the things right. Um, but no amount of money is worth the pain, the struggle, the relationship problems, the depression, the health, the physical health problems that come from truly being in burnout, because you are overworking yourself, which is a time management boundary problem.

giant gaps in your calendar. But so many people once they overcome that first hurdle, which seems like the biggest hurdle, right isn't almost every time like you can, with some like dedicated time and effort, you can fill your calendar, you can fill you know, you can get people to pay you for what you're doing. Yeah, when you get to the part where that's overflowing, and your calendars overflowing, and you're you've already like hit the money goal

that you were aiming for. It's the thing that separates the people who will be sustainable long term with those who will not are the people who are willing to get past their fear of losing that and do what they need to do, which is set harder boundaries, whether it's bumping their prices, or reducing the number of you know, clients they take or but I mean, both, actually, but yeah, yeah. Because if they're not willing to do that, if they get stuck in the like, but I won't have this

if I move forward. Right, those people? Yeah, they're like straight to burnout town. Yeah.

they're in now. But they have to be willing to work past work through the fear to get to the other side. And it's it's hard changes. I mean, I don't care how long you've been in business, raising your prices is hard. Yeah. You know, and changing your schedule and telling people that you're not doing this anymore, when you've been serving them is hard. Yeah. Um, but it's also adulting. And, and it's, it's running a business. And it's, it all comes

down to boundaries. And if you struggle with those same kind of boundaries in your personal life, telling people No, and, you know, turning opportunities down that you really don't want to do and all those kinds of things. You're probably it's probably carrying over into your business.

I am. This is somebody who has been in business for a long time, like she, she knows what she's doing. It is so much easier to look at somebody else's business and be like, This is what you should do, then to do it yourself. So you know, all of this, like we can sit here and pontificate about how great it is and whatever, but that's exactly what I said to her when she was like, okay, okay, so what if I were to bump my prices up? And she like, named the number that I was

telling her? And she was like, Okay, but what if it doesn't work? I was like, just try it for three months. And if it doesn't work, you can go back. And she was like, so when I go back, I was like, the thing is, she was like, how would that work? What I refund blah, blah, blah. And I was like, here's the secret. You will not. It won't happen. Yeah. So but again, easier said than done. But I think

this. There's something huge to that just having somebody walk alongside you and, you know, kind of cheer you on through that process.

struggles. Because I do feel like it's a combination of the the realities and the kind of black and white let's look at the numbers. But also with that emotional peace. And, and that's what I think you do with, like, a sprinkle of pixie dust is so good. So just in case, people are listening and didn't hear our first conversation last year, tell everybody where they can find you and what you've got going on in your own business.

stuff going on. I'll be speaking at a few conferences this year, and hopefully doing some other podcast interviews so you can catch me around but I have a course called the organized photographer, you can get on a waitlist on my website, it is the business side of the photography business. And then I've got a mastermind that started this year, and it's been really, really fun. I've got a waitlist going on for that. It's called route to rise and it is

heart work. So it is working on all this mushy gushy boundary stuff and live stuff and goals and all of that and then letting it bleed over bleed over into your business. It is part mastermind part book club part, a bunch of guest speakers and then a we do a retreat. So we're gonna get together for three days here pretty soon and do some shooting and stuff. Um, I think that's all I have. Right now.