Hey guys, welcome to a very special bonus episode of This can't be that hard. Not only is today's episode dropping on a Thursday, not a Tuesday, Crazy, I know. But it is, it is also going to be without me almost at all. And what you're hearing right now is the only time that you're going
to hear me on the show. Because today's episode was put together and executed by my marketing person, Dayna, Dayna came to me a few weeks ago and was like, Hey, we're getting ready to release this big refresh of the simple sales blueprint. And I feel like you have all these students who have great stories about how they use the blueprint in their businesses, instead of just your experience and your family photography business and
exactly what you do. There are all these people now who are using simple sales in all different kinds of businesses. They have been in business for like a year or 10 years, all these different kinds of stories. Why don't you interview some of them? And I was like, Yeah, that's a great idea. And then the more I thought about it, I was like, Ah, I don't know that we're gonna get really honest answers, if I'm the one hosting these interviews, right?
I mean, when the chef comes out to the table, you're not going to, you know, says how's your meal, you may not be the sort of person to give them feedback in a constructive way. And I really did want you guys to get this unfiltered version of how these people are experiencing simple sales. So I went back to Dayna and I said, I tell you what, I think this is a great idea. But instead of me doing this, how about you do this and much to my delight, Dayna was super jazzed.
And she was like, Yes, I'm on it. So again, what you are hearing today is actually brand new to me as well. And I'm excited to hear it because I love feedback, positive and negative. And I want you to be able to make correct decisions for your own business. I, you know, obviously, I do sales in my photography, business, and I do sales in my education
business. However, I never want anyone one of my photography clients, or one of my photographer clients to make a decision because they feel pushed into something or that somebody has tricked them into buying something. I want you to make an educated decision. So hopefully, today's interviewees who are photographers ranging from new in business to in business for a long time and representing several different genres of photography. Hopefully, one of their experiences will resonate with
you. And if you see yourself in one of these people, or if you feel like you're interested in learning more about the actual nuts and bolts of the simple Sale system, and you haven't yet taken my masterclass, I recommend that you go to thiscantbethathard.com/simple I'll link it in the shownotes. That is a 90 Minute course on how simple sales works. So it'll walk you through the whole
thing. And then you'll you know, you'll have a full picture between how it works and how it is working for these students and these photographers so that you can make an educated and informed decision. Anyway, I'm rambling because I'm a little bit nervous, because I haven't heard this yet. So at this point, I will shut my mouth, cue the music and turn it over to Dayna. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable
businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how.
Hey, everybody, I'm Dayna, I've been part of the this can't be that hard team for about a year now. And I am not a photographer. I don't have any experience in photography per se, except as a consumer. But I do come from a background of creative arts and also business. So for me, it's been really fascinating to watch so many of you, creative beings, you artists really succeeding with
the simple sales business. And you know, the culture here behind the scenes and hopefully in front of the scenes too, that you guys feel this is really all about helping photographers become profitable so that you don't burn out because we genuinely want you to be successful. Because we believe that photography like documenting people matters are matters. And we really believe that you shouldn't have to choose between Being an artist
and being successful. So I know personally that when I want to invest in something as either, you know, for my business or, you know, for my art, especially when it's a course, or you know, some kind of system for my business, I really want to hear from other people who are just like me, and know what they thought of it. And so, you know, I usually would head to like Yelp or Google, but sometimes it's hard to get a vibe from
just a written review. And so, you know, I thought, wouldn't it be kind of cool for you all to hear from some of our students directly. So I reached out to some of the photographers here and that this can't be that hard student group with varying degrees of experience. And, you know, some of them have been in business for a decade and others of them are just starting out, some of them shoot weddings, others do families maternity baby like boudoir, all of the
above. And so my hope from this episode is that somewhere in the mix, you will hear your story and get a deeper understanding of how simple sales could help you grow a more sustainable, and profitable photography business. So let's start with Lindsey, who has a story that might feel familiar to quite a few of you.
I'm Lindsey, I live outside of Boston, Massachusetts, with my husband and three little boys, three, five, and eight. So it's definitely very busy. I mostly document families lifestyle, family, lifestyle, newborn maternity and the occasional elopement. And, let's see, I would say, I got started mainly because it was my hobby. And I think this is a lot of people's
stories. But when my first son was born, I stayed home with him for about a year and then wanted something more and felt like maybe I could turn this hobby into a career. So I opened my business when he was one. And yeah, it's been seven years. And here I am.
Wow. So what did you do? Just out of curiosity, what did you do before you had your kids?
I was actually in marketing and sales for luxury event venues. So wow, do like sell weddings and corporate meetings and stuff at like large event facilities?
Wow. That's very different. It?
Yes. I mean, some of it is a bit of a crossover, because marketing and sales and learning how to talk and connect with all different people is helpful. I think no matter what career you and
I couldn't agree more. That's what I do. So I agree with you. It's so did you do you then find that part of your business? For a lot of photographers I found, they find the marketing and quote sales part like so cringy and hard and they like struggle? Do you find that easier? Because you have that background?
I think that I have a very easy time making small talk, because that was literally my job to connect and make small talk with everyone right away whenever they come in the door. So I find that easy. I do still get cringy only because it's different when you're selling yourself versus selling, you know, a venue because there's all you know, it's different when it's you is the product versus something else that you're selling, or
Yeah, I agree. I totally agree. So just wondering if you had like a superpower that nobody else
talking? That's basically it.
Maybe it's an East Coast thing. So we're doing this special episode for this two year anniversary of the podcast, which is crazy and exciting. And so I'm just kind of interviewing some of the students to talk about, you know, what was your story in your business? And for you, since you've been in business for a little bit of time. Now? What is what was your story before? Let's start with that, like, what was your story kind of before? You found a simple sales blueprint as photographer?
So I was one of those people who started basically from the ground up my first I think the first six months I was in business, I was literally charging $75 per session for the sessions as to get started. Okay, which is funny, because my, you know, average price is well over 1000 Now, so that is a big difference. Yeah. So and then, you know, each year i incrementally even more than what, once per year, kind of raised that still in an all
inclusive model. So you know, the next year I was 300, and then 500, after that, and 600 and I sort of was bumping up and up and up. And then I actually wanted to switch to something that was a little bit more product centric and had more of a package model before even and found on me. And I switched to a model where I tried out doing packages that included specific print products, like, you know, package number one I don't even remember now, but would include
one eight by 10. And then package number two would be an 11 by 14 and two, eight by 10, or whatever. Yeah, so I did that for about a year, it was just so burnt out with, I don't know, the whole, you know, having clients be like, well, what if I don't want that specific size? Or can I trade two five by sevens for one eight by 10? Or chasing them down to be like, you have this one eight by 10? Like, can you choose an image for it? You know, let's get
going. And they would ghost you or be like, Oh, I don't know, I haven't made a decision yet. And then it just was so exhausting for me as a mom of small children that I went back to an all inclusive model after about a year and said, You know what, I just I can't deal with that anymore. It's just too much work on the back end. So I'm going to go back to all inclusive. So right before I found on animes course, I was charging $850 all
inclusive. So it would be for a gallery, since its lifestyle, I would say between 80 and 100 images, including black and whites. And then I found her course. And basically, I guess the first thing that attracted me to it was the fact that it could be a package model that could include printed product, but I didn't have to be involved with it after the fact. It was like marrying the two things that I had been searching for. Yes, exactly. The heavens opened up and I was like, Yes.
I love it. Um, yeah, that's perfect, too. So when you? So you were, it sounds like you were kind of looking for what she was offering. But what I'm curious about is like, what I feel like people make a change in their business when there's a pain point that they're like, I can't do this anymore. So for example, when you like switched away from the package back to all inclusive, you're just like, This is too much of a time suck. So what was it that then honestly attracted you back to a
sort of package situation? And specifically, like, what problem did that solve in your all inclusive that had been working for you up until that point?
Yeah, that's such a good question. I think what happened was, I am I feel weird complaining about this because I feel very lucky but have an abundance of inquiries. Like I was feeling so overworked. Even though I had gone to a higher, all inclusive price point that I had been at previously, it still felt like I
was constantly working in. I was, I think, toying with the idea of trying to figure out should I raise to an even higher, like, Should I break 1000 and be, you know, whatever that price point is all inclusive? Or should I consider something else? So I think I had gotten to a point where I was too busy, I felt overworked and like I wasn't making enough per session, I wanted to cut back the number of sessions I was doing, but didn't really know where to go from where I was at
from a pricing standpoint. So I was kind of looking around at different pricing methods and looking at what everyone else in my area was doing. And I can't even honestly remember how I stumbled across her. It might have been through her podcast, yes. Because I think in a group maybe I had asked for podcast recommendations, or somebody did and I found a thread and then I started listening to her first episode and was like, oh, maybe this is the answer.
Maybe this is the thing. Yes.
How do you feel about that people now often get prints and products when they work with you?
I love it. I mean, people will text me pictures of what they've done with it, like, you know, pictures that they look I frame this and it's above my mantel and it just It's so heartwarming to see your work actually being enjoyed on people's walls instead of dying somewhere on
their hard drive. Or you know, they'll all help design an album for them because I do sell fulfill for albums now and they'll get it and be like oh my gosh, they'll text me that they cried like opening it up and it's going to be you know, the heirloom for their kid and I don't know it's just it's so nice. Or I'll go with that it'll be a repeat client. I'll go to their house for a new you know, baby, and there it is all over the wall. Yeah, it's really nice.
That is really cool. I think that was I gonna say oh, just like the idea of that you can choose like I heard you say I sell fulfill for albums now. So that's so cool that you were like actually I enjoyed this one specific part of this. And I would like to do that and I think that that is something that a lot of people have questions about when they're looking at a course is like, how is it going to work? A bit? A huge question that people have is, is this going to work for me
and my market? Yeah. And like, how rigid is it going to be? Yeah. So did you have any of those like, questions?
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I don't know if Annemie wants me to say this. But she does. But yeah, one of the things I, I read her course, and I went into it with a mind of, I'm going to do it exactly how she lays it out. But then, when she said, You know, one of the core cornerstones, I think of her method is the initial phone call. And I looked at it, and I was like, I'm not gonna do that I can't, I have little kids at home with me, and it's just not going to happen. And I knew that
about myself. And I felt very confident that my market was very similar to me, and that they don't have time or watch for a phone call either. And I'm almost two years in, and I'm very successful without the phone call, even though she might cringe hearing that, but it just if it hadn't worked, would I have reworked and maybe gone back to what she suggested? Sure. But it worked just fine for me. And yeah, my own method, and I do offer to jump on the phone call. If anybody wants
one. I would say maybe two out of every 10 inquiries, take me up on that. But that for me, as a mom of little kids is more manageable than trying to schedule 10 at 10 phone calls. Yeah. So yes, I think the answer is it's, is the method rigid? In the principle basic principles of it? Absolutely. Because it works for a reason, you know, like limiting Digital's offering three packages, the print credit, those are all the core cornerstones. Yeah. But I think
beyond that, yes. It's very adaptable, I think to your personality, your market? You I mean, you have to put your own spin on everything, because you're the person doing it. So it has to be authentic.
Like you said, yourself, yourself. So yes, to have your little flavor. What does your business look like? After both from like a nuts and bolts perspective? And also like a feeling like do you feel? Does your business feel different? Does your family feel a difference?
For sure? I mean, I will like nuts and bolts, logistically, I doubled my income in 2021. Wow. And that isn't because of the pandemic in 2020, because my business had increased from 2019 to 2020. And then I doubled 2020s revenue. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, yes, my family feels different, because we feel in a much different financial place than we were the year I mean, double in, I was just a few $1,000, shy of six figures in 2020. So Wow. Well, it was then a major, major accomplishment. Wow, thank you.
It was shocking to be, to be honest. Now, there's obviously a little bit more cost when you're going from, you know, that's what gross income, there's a little bit more cost involved because of the print credit. But if you're pricing it properly, it's really not that much per session. So it still was a huge increase year over year. So financially, yes, it feels a lot better. I've been able to take less sessions, which is amazing.
I mean, being you know, home with three little kids and a little bit more, has been definitely much, much better than the sort of frenzied, busy feeling that I felt when I felt truly overworked. And then, I don't know, mentally, it just feels like a great sense of accomplishment, you know, and really, you've if you feel like you are actually valuing yourself properly, and making the amount of money that you feel like you deserve per session for the amount of work that you're putting in per
session. It just is. It feels different. It feels less. Just exhausting. You know what I mean? Mental? Absolutely.
Yeah. And I mean, not only is that a significant accomplishment, but like, who doesn't want to make more money in less time? Yeah, yes, please sign us up. I'm sure quite a few of you resonate with Lindsey story of feeling burnout and overworked and maybe even a little fearful of how your clients would react to change after so much time. But I'm also sure that there are some others of you who as Lindsay pointed out, would love to be in the position of having
too many inquiries. And so if that's you and you are, say maybe newer in your business, then our next guest Naomi's journey is going to feel familiar.
I, like many people, was bored out of my mind once I came home and had kids and A friend of mine actually gave me their hand me down iPhone. And they, you know, it opened the door for me to having a camera at my fingertips at all times. And so I just started snapping photos. And I ended up getting noticed by some photographers that I knew from high school. And I actually ended up winning a small amateur photography contest. And yeah, it just kind of snowballed. Like a friend of mine said, Hey, I
noticed your photography. And it wasn't like anything new. I didn't even have a Facebook page at this point. And they said, Would you be willing to take photos for us for our Christmas card? And we could just, you know, buy you dinner or something? And I was like, Sure, why not? You know, and I, and I found that I love the process of interacting with the family just as much as I loved the process of photography. And so it's every kind of turn in the band has revealed a new thing that I
love. So I didn't know anything about business or any kind of like marketing or anything, and come to find out I love that, too. So photography has just been like this huge surprise for me, in my 30s, discovering new things about myself that I never knew. And so it's just just been a great experience overall.
That's cool. That's such a great story. What did you do before you had kids and started in photography?
Well, actually, I was an ESL teacher in Harrisburg. And I know it's really different. I worked specifically with immigrants and refugees. That mostly came from Nepal. And so yeah, I just got to know some really cool families in the area. And we had a great time. Yeah, I
was gonna say, I think the overlap there is like, obviously, you really love people and you really love connecting with families and you have such a warm energy. You're obviously very much of a people person.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, yeah. And I think too, like for with ESL, you don't always you're trying to communicate without words, sometimes, you know, and it's the same thing with photography, where you're, you're trying to, like, capture an energy or a connection. And it's not always about the words of the language. It's about the feeling.
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. That's a great way to put it. So being sort of newer in the photography field, at what point in, like, at what point did you come across the bull sales? Or maybe a better way to ask this would be, you kind of just started out and you were like, winging it. And then what happened that you were like, Okay, I need to change the way I'm doing things. Yeah.
Well, so in the fall of 2019, I had had a pretty busy fall. And I was like, You know what, um, I didn't make a ton of money, but I'm exhausted. So then 2020 You know, was that was gonna be my year? Yeah, everybody's here. Yeah. So that's kind of how I was looking
at it. And I had reached out to a photographer in one of my photography groups, and I just asked her if I could come and shadow her a little bit and just learn as much as I could from her because I really respected her business model, you know, her as Lindsey Mills McNiff, and um, so she with you know, with COVID happening and everything she was just not comfortable with it but she said, but maybe check out on Amy's podcast I learned a lot that from that and I started listening to these
podcasts and just was like a sponge you know, just soaking up all the information that I could and led me to this simple Sale system which honestly I had been looking for something exactly like that because I knew that I wanted physical products to be something that was kind of a cornerstone of my business because I knew from personal experience that as a busy mom you know, it becomes one more thing to do it's just as something on your to do list than in those those Digital's
that you want so badly at a certain points just become like something sitting on your hard drive that you forget about and so I wanted something on the wall for my clients however, however, I had spent a summer in college doing in person sales for like a cutlery company, as a Cutco. Yes, same Did did you and I hated it. I mean, I saw like couples getting into fights right in front of me. I saw
like, it was just the worst. And I didn't want to be in that position of like, being the salesperson, you know, I didn't want to be like a sleazy grabbing all your money kind of salesperson, I want a beautiful experience. And so when I heard autonomies pitch with her masterclass, I just knew immediately this is what I've been looking for, because it, it's a perfect blend of the things that I wanted. So I'm
kind of just came together. And I mean, COVID would stand and that was standing like, it just worked so well, for it to be an online course that I could just jump in and do on my own. Because I had all this time to revamp my business. So I revamped everything. I mean, I got a CRM system, I rebuilt my website, you know, I did my cost analysis and everything. And I mean, I almost had like, a little bit of a breakdown, trying to figure out like, Can I
do this? Am I worth it? Is anyone gonna hire me, you know, but that all came with the territory and it all, you know, it just had kind of stick it out and everything worked out really, really well.
That's great. That's so good to hear. I love your story. Like I know, it sounds like for you come in, you were like sort of like had an idea of what you were looking for. And then you heard about simple sales. And you were like, Yep, this is the right thing for me. So there wasn't like a lot of convincing, let's say that needed to happen.
But how would you describe how it sort of changed both your business and, you know, like you were talking about the emotional turmoil, we'll see that people go through, which I think is a very common experience just to, especially for creative. So look at our numbers to like, dig down and ask all those really important questions. Once you do that, though, what is the difference? How is that reflected in your business both? Like it like in the hard facts?
And then also in the feelings of like, How is your business feel different?
Well, the most obvious way is I'm making about triple when I was making, so that was a huge difference. And that also means that I can decide to take fewer sessions if I want to. So I'm not as exhausted as I once was.
And 2019
Yeah, exactly. And so I also just feel that I have a more professional presence now. Everything's very streamlined. And a lot of that's thanks to autonomies blueprint, really just gave me a path to follow. And I could customize it however I wanted. But the path was there. It was not, it was not me whacking through the weeds any longer trying to
figure out what works. And there was a clear path that all I had to do was follow and create, as I you know, create the Naomi Boyer side of things, you know, so, so like, I love that from the very first interaction with my customers, or my clients. I, I have a very, a direction that I'm going but I'm leading them
through. And I also love that when it comes to giving them their their galleries that it is an experience for them that it's a slideshow, I think that's been the one thing that has been so huge, I get so many people saying I was bawling watching that slideshow, and it means the world to me, I want them to feel
those things. And sometimes when I'm creating the slideshow, I cry because you know, you get that just right song and just hit it and you and you know that that's that's the one and I want every family to have their slideshow because of that. So and funny story, we had our own family photos taken by a different professional photographer in the area. And she's kind of newer, and she just kind of sent me my gallery.
And do you know what I did? I created a slideshow so that my family could watch it together. Because I was like, Oh, this is nice, you know, but there's no experience. There's no moment and I wanted that moment. And I and I saw how important that was even for myself. Absolutely. Yeah. So I feel like the experience part of that was just so much different than it once was.
Yeah, absolutely. I can totally understand that.
There's one question on there that I really wanted to answer. Oh, and it was how has this changed your family? And I wanted to tell you because in two days, my whole Family is flying down to Houston, Texas to see my 96 year old grandma. And it's because, in part, okay, it's because my six year old, one of my six year old twins, was crying to me saying I want to see grandma one more time before she dies. And I realized that I could make that happen because of my income.
That's the only reason we were able to do this trip. And so it has had a tangible and profound effect on my family.
Making a structural change to your business is a big decision. And most people have quite a few hesitations before they implement the simple Sale system. But our next guest, Erin was perhaps more trepidatious than most, even though she had known on me for years through the family narrative, and had many friends using the simple sales system successfully.
My story was kind of funny, because I do know Onna me from the family narrative. And so I had seen other friends of mine using the simple sales system, and it was successful for them. But maybe it was my inner Enneagram four unique side of me that was like, No, this isn't gonna work for me, I need something unique and different.
But I did contact her. Like no respect her from a business standpoint and ended up asking her to chat with me and tried to like work out a system and she didn't in any way push the simple sales system. But I found myself leaning more and more toward it and understanding why that was what I needed. I needed to start with numbers. And I needed to look at just doing something a little bit different
that would satisfy my clients. I I thought they wanted all Digital's and in talking with her more and more, I realized the value of presenting ideas to your clients and that they want these easy answers and that they want something simple and that they want you to tell them sometimes what they want or what they even might want to consider. So all of those things, were just things that I hadn't looked at that way before.
Absolutely. I'm sitting over here nodding my head so hard, because before we started recording, I was telling you how, you know, before I knew as a consumer that there was another option besides all inclusive. That's who I hired to do my wedding photos. And now, you know, here I am, you know, eight months later, and I don't have any of my wedding photos printed, because I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know where to print my you know. And so had someone presented me that
option. I absolutely would have said like, Oh, yes, you'll do that for me. I'll give you more money willingly. So So you're really scared that your clients wouldn't take to the simple Sale system. Was that like your big hesitation was that they wouldn't. They just wanted all inclusive,
very much. I just was convinced that my clients were people that I it was me wanting to give people this whole story and all the Digital's and to like dump it all on them to just make sure I gave them everything and they got every piece of it. And I had created this like story in my mind of who my clients were. And
that was part of it for me. I mean, I've said to several people, even if I didn't use the system right now, as it was intended and in its entirety, going through the process and going through the class was worth it just for that just for the parts of working through who my client is what my numbers
are. I started thinking about it and realizing that a lot of my clients were working parents were both parents were working and started realizing that they are not the people who have time to deal with a bunch of Digital's dumped to them for them to lose in the abyss of their computer. And that's been so successful. People have loved having something after their session to hold on to that's already printed for them. A lot of my clients get an album that I designed for them and they
absolutely love it. And I've definitely had people come to me because they've seen someone else's printed products. So that was new to me.
Wow. Yeah, that's like the best calling card you could leave. Yeah. Yep. Awesome. So I don't know if you have anything like specifically concrete, but like, how do you I've been asking everybody like, you know what, what changes did you see both in your business like the nuts and bolts of your business numbers and such, but also like the emotional impact that implementing this simple Sale system has had in your business and your life?
I have a lot to say about I guess from, from my standpoint, implementing the simple Sale system has just helped me gain a lot of confidence. In myself as an artist, in looking at my worth, I am looking at money differently, I'm looking at business differently, I'm confident in my overall value and the offers that I'm giving people, I am definitely less
frazzled. I feel like this is kind of sounds weird, but I feel like I have more authentic feeling automations in place, where I worked really hard to make sure that anything that was automated had my voice. And so going through this process really helps with that and giving everything a personal touch while making it easy. So I think to just knowing that I'm not walking out the door for less than what a session is
worth has been huge for me. And from a client standpoint, one of the most awesome things for me was immediately changing to starting with a phone call. And that's been pivotal for me. I mean, I feel like so much of why people work with me and all of us as photographers, we're selling ourselves and in a way. And so when people talk to you, and they hear from you, and they know that you're there to like, make sure that you're the right fit and that you Jive together.
I think people really appreciate when I say I want to talk to make sure I'm the person that fits for you. And you're the person that fits for me. And if not, I have a lot of good other photographers I can recommend and I think they hear the honesty in that. So that's been huge, just just starting with a phone call. And then like more concretely most of my clients are picking my highest collection. I'm making double to triple what I would have made on
the session before. And they're leaving with Digital's and prints in hand. So that's huge.
Yeah, that's amazing. That's like you had an impact on both sides, for them and for you. What would you say to somebody who is on the fence about buying the blueprint?
My honest answer there is I don't know. And I think it really does depend on the person and who your people are. Yeah, I'm gonna assume that you just aren't gonna want this or No, I
actually think that's really helpful. Like, like, you know, I think that I think on him, he would agree with me here. You know, like, I think the simple sales blueprint is amazing. But I don't know that it is the solution for every single photographer. So like, honestly, what would you say? Like, would you say, like, look at these things. And if these things are true, then I think this will be really helpful for you.
Like, yeah, it depends. There's so many people here in my area, and right around, but that are like, that are doing kind of all digital and low price type sessions or doing like, I do feel like a lot of people here in Columbus do sessions that are really like per person, like based on I just know a lot of people that are a little bit more like free range where it's just like, like, what kind of session do you want to do? Let me put a price on it,
whatever. So I don't think it works for everybody, because it does require you to be more set in your numbers. But what I will say for anyone that's on the fence is that, as I mentioned before, even if I hadn't actually implemented the system, the cost of the Blueprint was worth every penny, even if I had only used it to run my numbers.
Or even if I had only used it to listen to the videos and start to think through my bluebird client, again, those pieces were worth so much to me that it doesn't matter if I was even going to ultimately implement it. Which is funny to say, because at this point, that is making me a lot more money than I ever did before and feels like it's making my business so much more worth my time. So to be able to say that it would be worth it, even if I didn't use it in its entirety, I think is a
pretty big deal. Yeah.
Now, up until this point, most of our students have been from pretty populated areas, either in a city or just outside of one, which is why I'm really excited for you to hear from our next guest. Lisa, so Lisa went to school for fine arts and she initially worked professionally in high end portrait photography. This eventually led her to weddings. But then a couple years ago when this little global pandemics shut down weddings, she had a pivot
again. And this time she pivoted to generational family photography and boudoir photography. All in an extremely is a small market.
I live in France, there's 200 people in the village, my nearest town is 45 minutes away. So my marketing is very complicated to do, I really have to get through the net out wide in the sense that it has to be prepared to travel a long way, or get people to travel to me, and therefore offer an amazing experience and very original experience, because they're going to drive a long way to come to me.
So would you say that you are a unicorn, then when it comes to the business models?
No. And what was what was really interesting about finding a simple sales was that I always thought there had to be a unicorn. And, and I didn't want to be a unicorn, I love certain parts of it. But if I've got a client driving an hour, they're not going to drive an hour to come and meet me an hour to do a shoot an hour to do reveal an hour to pick up the album. I'm not going to get them to drive eight hours just to do that with me. I just thought that that was too complicated
and asking too much. So no, I believe right down in the middle. And they have a wonderful experience. But they don't have all the champagne balls that go with it. So go, oh, so
I was just gonna say so before you found simple sales. I love the way you're describing your business. Before you found simple sales. I think this is such a unique perspective, Lisa, that you live in a very small village. And so you know you're in a small market, I think there are a lot of people that can relate to that. Maybe if they don't let live in necessarily such a small place. At least they feel like their market is
very small. And so I'm interested to hear how your business was before you found simple sales. And then well let's let's start there. How was your business before you found simple sales? What did you do?
I did in person sales, and I thought I had to be a unicorn. So I was getting a lot of pushback of people saying that they couldn't come back and I was like, well, we could do a zoom reveal. But and then I was sending stuff out and and it just didn't work for me. Even to send stuff out I have to drive 15 kilometers to the post office. So it just didn't work. And it's not wanting to do and I
wasn't happy doing it. But I also knew that I didn't just want to do sending out the files or sending out just an online gallery. I knew that wouldn't work for me either because I didn't want to have that company. I wanted to have the experience as well. So I found simple sales, which corresponded actually to our first lockdown.
So I spent three months was like putting simple cells into place and then pivoted my business around to family photography, because I knew we weren't going to have weddings and all my weddings the year were canceled. So I pivoted to family bought in simple sales and what I did is I first did it without a What does she call that in the simple sales when people pay in the session fee so I started doing it without the session because it's not a session for you don't really have that in France it's
a bit of a strange one. So I started that session but I had this simple sales in place and I just because I wasn't doing family photography it was very easy for me to set up in front of me because I didn't do it before so it's like okay, you want to be familiar with this now it works. So they paid the first price which is six
photographs. They did the shoot they got the video what they had 24 hours to decide whether they're going to stick with six or whether they wanted more and then sided everything then how how simple cells are set up and it just worked right from the off with the family. So then as I was doing boudoir I'd always been but boudoir more as a unicorn. I just thought that this could work with boudoir it works brilliantly well. And in fact I think even works better than it for me anyway that did
when I went into sales. Because as a lot of these women are very negative about themselves very much you know if you have a thing so we're going to have get 30 images like I'm not Like 30 images of myself, and the possibility that they only have to choose six was like, okay, I can, I could find myself okay in six images. And I think that really helps that turn around for boudoir. And then of course, they get the video and they're like, Ah, wow, it's wonderful.
Um, I get people send him video and help them sell crying watching the video. Oh, and I just think that that, that impact of what a reveal can do. If we, if we set it up right ourselves, we can get that same impact with that video. So I have a lovely little text that they get if I if the husband's in on it, and I get him to buy a bottle of champagne. And so she has a surprise that has been had champagne, and they watched the
video. And I just try make a special account and make have that incredible customer service in there without it being the unicorn.
Lisa, you're making me want to fly to France to do a boudoir shoot with you.
And it's just it just really works. So since I put simple sales and I have no boudoir client ever buy six photographs, they've always gone to the middle or top packaging. So my actual sales have doubled. Wow. And I've gone up from you know, 650 euros to you know, yeah, doubling that, or even more. I've had clients take two or three albums. Buying Wallah afterwards, which I never sold before.
Yeah. How does that feel to know that your art is actually being displayed in people's homes.
I've just sold 240 by 60 centimeters, I mean, so that's big. And that's a metal prints on somebody's wall. And they're excellent, great. It's just brilliant. I mean, I've got next week, I'm doing a 60 year eight year old woman who's coming in for her boudoir as a present for a eight year old husband's birthday. And I'm like, if that's not a couple's
goal in life. It's brilliant. So we had a we had we have the zoom, I mean, I do the whole thing when I get on the phone with people, then we have a zoom call together. And so she's showing me what she wants to put in this boudoir shoot. And it's just amazing. It's just it's really changed around for me
it's made me be more me. Yeah, and maybe more meat means I can serve my clients better because I'm me and I'm not pretending to be somebody I'm not that which is what I was doing when I was in in person sales just
over here googling flights to France. Okay, so last but certainly not least, I want to introduce you to Kathy from the Denver area who's been in business for 10 years and says that she has seen it and tried it all.
So I've been in business for a while and I had tried lots of different business models from doing in person sales to doing all inclusive you know, and at different price points and I had never got to a place where it was really where I had really built a sustainable model for myself and where I was making the kind of money that I needed to make
How did that feel to be like kind of like pouring your heart into this business but like not it wasn't like paying the bills. So I was you know constantly questioning whether I should continue on pretty much everything that I was making I was pouring back into the business I felt like I didn't have a clear confident plan for myself. I think that's key is that I wasn't ever confident in what I'm whatever model I was
doing. I was constantly second guessing myself because this you know, marketing and sales has never been my strong point. You know, I'm an artist before that I was an HR but you know, I very much have that more artists standpoint and not necessarily the marketing and, and sales side. So I was constantly second guessing and not knowing if the direction I was going was correct or not. So I kind of always felt like I was floundering and not knowing if what I was doing was the right
way to do it. Yeah, totally. Bye got quite a bit. And I know from personal experience, too, that's just like a hard place to be, you know, especially when you're being creative. You know, you're like, wondering all the time. Like, am I is this worth what I'm charging as opposed to like, what is like, this is what I am worth, you know, and that's a big iPhones, I'm pretty sure that I heard about the simple sales blueprint from Nicole Johnson. She's another photographer in the
Denver area. And I mean, a lot of people know who she is. So I think that I had heard about simple sales through her. I had heard about automate before that, but she was the first person who I talked to that had started the program, and what like, perk your ears up about it. Um, for me, it was the tools that were involved in it. Having, you know, a clear workflow that seemed to be tested, and and that really worked, having the pre written
communications. And I mean, really, that workflow of knowing, you know, okay, this is the first step you take, you know, this is the second step and making sure that you're following through with that workflow. And then along with having some sales tools, that's what really kind of piqued my interest at first, spaced on kind of Nicole's recommendation, I went ahead and jumped right in and purchased the course. So you didn't have any objections? Or were you nervous?
Or I was nervous, because of course, just like most photographers, I've bought into other programs, and then other training. Yeah, um, but you know, I, I trusted Nicole. And I felt like I mean, for me, it's always that cost benefit analysis. So I looked at what the price was, and figured, okay, well, if I can get at least x amount of sales from this, it's paid for itself. And I feel like those communication tools and that workflow is probably going to be worth that.
I remember one of the things that stuck out to me was that you had said that, number one, you felt like you had, like, wished you had taken some kind of business class earlier in your photography life. And then also, like, you were a little nervous about spending money on another class, for the reason you just said, like, how many classes if you could talk a
little bit about that? Because I think that's something that a lot of people, both of those are feelings that I think a lot of people have, have just like, oh, another course? Am I ever going to finish this? Is it going to be worth it?
Yeah. I think a lot of photographers when you're first starting, you know, you're concentrating Okay, what do I need to do to really set this up in a legal and professional way? There are so many different business models out there. And it's just trying to figure out okay, what's going to be the best for me in my situation? And yeah, I wish that I wish I had this when I first started 10 years ago, because it would have I mean, it solved a lot of
problems. And it kind of it's kind of like a business one on one class. I mean, I feel like from here, you know, I I integrated the system with my family clients, and then I just took the revenue on repeat
course. Oh, yeah. So I'm trying to incorporate that into some family plans and new farm plans, but then also with my seniors now I'm incorporating the whole system with my seniors and part of what I want to do with my seniors is create a year long what kind of documentary plan and so the revenue repeat is helping with that so um, so yeah, it's kind of like business one on one and then you know, you take the first step on your biggest chunk of business but then you can kind of incorporate
it as you grow. I think so.
What if anything was like difficult for you while you were taking the course are hard like to wrap your head around? Oh, um, I guess. I mean, I guess I would say the pricing aspect of it. I have used other pricing calculators. I feel like hers by far. I mean, when you first look at it, it looks it looks kind of complicated. But she incorporates so many wonderful details in her calculator and I feel it gets more accurate than
anything else. And it gives you room to play with it and try to figure out where you are in your market. One of the things that I think is so special about her pricing calculator is that you can take into account other revenue, rep, other revenue streams that you might have. Or if you've got a job, you know, so what do you need to make right now, but then also you can plan for if you're wanting to go full time into photography. So it really is so comprehensive.
So on one hand, that's probably the hardest thing to wrap your head around is just the pricing and trying to figure out really, am I worth this much? And I charge this much am I gonna lose all of my customers? If I do this? Yeah, but then also, it's more comprehensive than anything else that I've ever seen. So I, I took that leap, even though it was scary. And, and I could be
confident in it. I feel like I mean, there's you're constantly questioning yourself, but I felt more confident in those those numbers than I ever have. Was that a concern for you that like, your clients would be like, Oh, I'm out of here. Yeah, definitely. I mean, anytime you go, you increase your, your prices, you're going to feel
that way. But I felt like, Okay, I've got a good system here, I felt like I'm offering something for the people who are going to not want to spend the top amount I'm offering something for, you know, three different levels. So hopefully, there's something here for most people. And, you know, and if not, that's okay. You know, I there's photographers there for everybody, and for every price point. And so if somebody can't pay it, or they don't see the value in it, then it's okay. So
I felt confident in that. And I felt like her calculator in her system gave back to me. Yeah, that's wonderful. I love to hear that. How do you feel like it has impacted your life like both on a nuts and bolts level? Like, money and numbers? And also like, how has it emotionally changed your life? Like Laurie, you're like, with your family and how you feel about yourself in your business? Yeah. Oh, so many things. I'm, I'm more focused, I feel like it's given me a lot more focus.
Even for planning for this year, I'm looking at how I'm going to build on what I created a year ago. So it's given me a lot more focus and ability to set goals and build on it. I feel like, I feel like it gave me the opportunity to work smarter, and make more money working smarter, instead of working frantically. And you know, I have friends who were in the fall booking 30 photoshoots in a weekend or 20 photo shoots in a weekend. And I don't want to do that. I can't
do that to myself. And I can't do that to my family. So I feel like I've been able to make an income that is sustainable for us and not work in that kind of a way. And I don't I feel like my creativity suffers when I work like that. Absolutely frantic mode. And so it's given me that ability to kind of slow down on the creative process, while also giving me the business tools to plan better. Yeah, absolutely. And how does your family feel? Like, are you more are you able to be around more?
Yeah, able to be around more. And, you know, this is the, I think this year is the first year since I have teenagers. And I started this when they were, you know, first starting elementary school. And I feel like this is the first time where I've really been able to contribute to the family in the past, it was putting the money back in the business, or I might buy something for myself here or there. You know, it was like, you know, some mad money and then investing back into the
photography business. But this year, I was able to invest back in the photography, business, but also contribute to our overall income, which has been huge. I mean, that's, you know, I worked full time and had a career before kids and me, you know, to get that back has been priceless. And of course that makes everybody else in my family happy to come. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say they benefit from that. That's that is a good feeling it definitely.
Obviously, as a mom, you're always contributing to the family, but there is just something that feels really, you know, like satisfying about being like I am financially contributing for this family. And to do that in a way that you love is really special. Actually, you know, and I think a lot of times this is just my opinion, but I think a lot of times, people feel like they can either do what they love, or
they can make money. And it's really cool for me to get to watch autonomy, students discover that they can actually have both. Yep, exactly. Close there anything else you want to add? No, I mean, the only other thing I would say is that, um, you know, there are there is, there are a lot of tools out
there. And there, there are a lot of people who are, you know, teaching different systems, but something about Annemie, and I don't know her personally, but she just comes across as extremely genuine and authentic in her desire to really help other photographers. And she just seems very upfront about that. I mean, she started this because she herself had to pivot because of COVID and life, you know, things happening in life. So, you know, she created it for herself, and then chose to share
it with the world. And, you know, everybody's out there to make an income and thank God, she makes some money from it, but I, I just feel like there's such an authenticity with her that she says, Okay, this is what I've done. It works. You know, you can try it. And she does that with it. I mean, anything that she sells and puts out there, I'm there for it.
I agree. I mean, I think you know, just says like, behind the scenes, I feel like getting to know her, I see how absolutely determined she is to help photographers really create, like sustainable business models and be profitable. And it really does come from that place. And that's she's just, you know, she has this like drive and that makes being around her just really infectious. You know, it's really
firing.
Yeah, she is she's She is good people. A little icing on the cake. Well, thank you so much, Abby, this is amazing. I really appreciate you taking the time. And thank you, this can't be that hard family for tuning into this very special episode.
It is so exciting to be celebrating not only two years of the podcast and over 100,000 downloads, but to be celebrating the real success of this podcast, which is that hundreds of you have been able to make shifts in your business to make them more profitable, more sustainable and more enjoyable along the way. It's a really special thing to be a part of.
So thanks for tuning in. You can find all of today's guests links websites and social media in our show notes for this episode, as well as the link for the free 90 minute masterclass where autonomy literally walks you through each of the six steps for the simple sales blueprint so you can understand it for yourself.
Well, that's it for this week's episode of This can't be that hard. I'll be back Same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode, along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads at this can't be that hard.com/learn If you like the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review in iTunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.